S03.E10: Witness

[Umbelina]

I can't find a preview that doesn't spell out most of the episode, so I just thought I'd get this thread up and running.

Buckle your seat belts.

[Umbelina]

It started off so well!

I'm interested in Washington DC, and in the running of Gilead, and the whole cracking down on handmaids

Spoiler

does fit with the book, which mentions in the epilogue that "things get much worse" for the handmaids before it ends.

I didn't even mind June's new purpose, I can buy being pushed beyond the limit, and wanting to do something drastic, and I loved how the other handmaid's avoided her, even revolutionary Alma.

I liked that June had trouble walking from months of being on her knees on a hard floor too.  So, things that seemed so promising really.

I loved Mrs. Lawrence explaining that Mr. Lawrence would be tried as a war criminal if they left, but hey!  Let's just forget about Canada negotiating with Gilead to give back a female rape child.  sigh

Then it all starts to go to hell, courtesy sadistic, obsessed, jealous (of both Joseph and June) creepy Fred.  The ceremony even brought back the horrors of the first time we saw it, as they all prepared.

Outstanding acting from all three of them during that preparation for unwanted "ceremony," as they talked about the consequences of not doing it.

The previews made me think the whole damn group would be in that room with them for the sex.  Thank God for small blessings.

Oh, kudos for that "At least it wasn't you." to that asshole Fred. 

I was seriously dreading this one, but...for once, pleasantly surprised.  More shocking still?  June finally came up with an actual plan!  Giving Lawrence the option of "being a hero" and leaving Gilead with his sick wife.  She also finally gave something back to another handmaid, telling Alma about her son!

Aw Janine!  Thank God for that eye-patch, you are back in the story now!  Janine's boy is in Califonia!  Oh please let this mean we will get to see California, even though on that leaked map, most of California is

Spoiler

rebel-held.

Serena yes, if your obsession gets Spy Guy back in the story, go with it!  However, suggesting Fred turn traitor will probably not end well for either of you, so I hope somehow, Fred is idiotic enough to actually do it. 

I was really dreading this episode, and am shocked and pleased that it was SO good.

[chocolatine]

OK, so at least something happened. A little too much of a feel-good ending with the muffins - we know that several non-June characters will die in the process of getting the children out, and it's very improbable the children will get out at all, so let's not be too gleeful yet.

Poor Janine, why does the show keep piling on her? I thought in the supermarket scene she understood on some level that June was lying about Caleb living on the beach.

"At least it wasn't you" - ha!

ETA:

5 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Janine's boy is in Califonia! 

No, he's dead. We saw June reading in Janine's file that Caleb was killed in a car accident after being taken away from Janine. June was lying to Janine trying to give her a plausible explanation why Caleb wasn't in the district anymore while shielding her from the truth. I think on some level Janine understood though.

Edited July 24, 2019 by chocolatine

[AnswersWanted]

What should have been the soundtrack for this episode: 

[LittleRed84]

12 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

it's very improbable the children will get out

I do think they get out with Lawrence and his wife. I base this only on a post earlier that stated the description for e12 is something like “Canada struggles to adjust to its new refugees...” or the like. 

Has anyone watched the e11 preview? 

Spoiler

It shows Serena and Fred driving in a convertible and I think they are headed to either Canada or a private meet with the American guy. 

God I hope that doesn’t result in a kidnapping of Nichole...

[Umbelina]

19 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

OK, so at least something happened. A little too much of a feel-good ending with the muffins - we know that several non-June characters will die in the process of getting the children out, and it's very improbable the children will get out at all, so let's not be too gleeful yet.

Poor Janine, why does the show keep piling on her? I thought in the supermarket scene she understood on some level that June was lying about Caleb living on the beach.

"At least it wasn't you" - ha!

ETA:

No, he's dead. We saw June reading in Janine's file that Caleb was killed in a car accident after being taken away from Janine. June was lying to Janine trying to give her a plausible explanation why Caleb wasn't in the district anymore while shielding her from the truth. I think on some level Janine understood though.

Aw crap, that's what I saw in June's face, but I didn't read that file.

Poor Janine, but at least she doesn't know, which is something.

3 minutes ago, LittleRed84 said:

  Reveal spoiler

It shows Serena and Fred driving in a convertible and I think they are headed to either Canada or a private meet with the American guy. 

God I hope that doesn’t result in a kidnapping of Nichole...

I seriously doubt Spy Guy would be involved in that, and also that Fred would EVER give up his power to "give" the USA anything.

Wow at that spoiler!  This could be interesting!

Edited July 24, 2019 by Umbelina

[Brn2bwild]

A good episode overall.  But every time June kept saying: "I'm going to get the kids out," I kept thinking, "No, other people are going to get the kids out through channels you've made no effort to develop."

Also, while the scene with the three handmaids at the freezer section was moving, did anyone else feel like "Noooooooooo, you're being too obvious!"  There's no way the guardians wouldn't suspect them.  But plot armor, I guess.

Finally, regarding the last bit where Serena talked about the American who could help them: does anyone think she could possibly be playing Fred?  Maybe she's going to convince him to go to the American, only to be arrested?  I can't imagine the American man (forgot his name) would go along with their bullshit plan to get Nichole back.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Brn2bwild

[AnswersWanted]

So somehow Lawrence can be forced to rape his handmaid at risk of imminent death to his entire household, but he can also turn around and get June and her growing band of escapees out of Gilead? 

But then again what has ever managed to get in June’s way before this whole entire season?

She should have been long ago dead so sure, she’s performing full on miracles now, why the hell not. 

The cheapness of this easy win for June would be laughable to me if I hadn’t already come to expect this kind of shitty run up to the finale.

Why wouldn’t the Marthas have used their huge distraction during last season to try and move some kids?

They knew they were risking a huge crackdown after the fact, why not try and get out as many as they could knowing the following backlash would mean certain death for so many of them?

Seriously, that truck they got for Emily could have held more than a few babies, as Rita managed to do for June and Holly, but of course NOBODY can be the super savior of Gilead that isn’t named “June”, no matter how illogical, improbable, in-fucking-possible that would be. 

Gilead is actually under much heavier guard and surveillance than they ever have been before, even the weirdo Lawrence is having to bend to their will, but NOW it’s go time?

GTFO, show, you and your goddamn stale muffins. 

They haven’t written shit all to get June this far along to manage such a feat, but hey, gotta get to those final episodes of “excitement”.

I literally spent this whole episode chucking for all the wrong reasons. 

Oh, and they just had to put in a close up of June munching a dry pastry with determination because that’s what gets you them Emmys. 

Also Serena is one talented lady, she can directly assist in the rape of a handmaid that isn’t even hers anymore. 

Also also, who the hell is updating all those handmaids’ records in the basement?

Those boxes looked like they hadn’t been touched in the 5 years Gilead has existed, but somehow they’ve all totally up to date, June's record contained Holly’s birth.

Am I really supposed to believe Lawrence is keeping such meticulous records in his dusty, musty basement and not locked away?

Also also also, why does he even have them in his personal possession anyhow?

He is over the colonies, what does it matter if he knows which Handmaids have what children and where? Does that somehow tie into their placements if they’re removed from handmaid service and punished or killed?

Huh, wait what’s that? Season 3 gotta season 3 and clearly June couldn’t have gotten such access from anyone else within the strict time constraints of a 50 minute episode and we only have 2 more episodes to go before the finale? 

Ohhhhhhhhh...

Suck my stale scone, show. 

Edited July 24, 2019 by AnswersWanted

[Umbelina]

7 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

A good episode overall.  But every time June kept saying: "I'm going to get the kids out," I kept thinking, "No, other people are going to get the kids out through channels you've made no effort to develop."

Also, while the scene with the three handmaids at the freezer section was moving, did anyone else feel like "Noooooooooo, you're being too obvious!"  There's no way the guardians wouldn't suspect them.  But plot armor, I guess.

Finally, regarding the last bit where Serena talked about the American who could help them: does anyone think she could possibly be playing Fred?  Maybe she's going to convince him to go to the American, only to be arrested?  I can't imagine the American man (forgot his name) would go along with their bullshit plan to get Nichole back.

No, I think Serena is just baby-nuts, they better not be trying another "redemption crap" thing with her.

I'm over it.

June has developed this though, she's the one who cultivated Eleanor, and she found those files, and she also made efforts with Lawrence and with the resistance.  It's almost as if (please God, make the showrunners have purchased several vowels) she's learned from her mistakes, and she has, slowly, turned into an actual revolutionary with more than just vague plans.

She also gave Joseph an actual reason to do this, to save his wife, she provided a way to do possibly do that and not be dead.  That was actually pretty smart.

I'd just about given up on this show, but this episode?  Shows so damn much progress and hope.

Spy Guy being back would have been enough of a gift, but the rest?  All fit. 

Also, that ceremony prep scene was emmy work for all three of them.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Umbelina

[go4luca]

Why the heck couldn’t Commander Waterford have gone up in flames along with his house?  Seriously.  Just chain an iron ball to his bony arse and toss him in the deep end of the nearest pool.

[go4luca]

21 hours ago, chocolatine said:

"At least it wasn't you" - ha!

My favorite line of the episode. Then the cut to Serena who you know caught the entire interaction.  Let it go Fred.  June’s just not into you.

Edited July 25, 2019 by go4luca
Clarity

[HeySandyStrange]

Well, color me shocked, a surprisingly decent episode. 

For the most part June didn't annoy this episode. Hell, she was actually the voice of reason, and convincingly so. The ceremony scene between the three was powerful.

I don't know why Lawrence doesn't think to ask for immunity or at least a light as possible sentence for turning over is likely vast amount of intel on Gilead to the American government so he can get out. Unless American has gone straight to fuck this, balls to the wall let's destroy Gilead and put their head's on spikes, they'd still follow law and are probably in desperate need of information to potentially fuck Gilead over with.

My poor, sweet Janine. Someone better think to save a place for her in the great Gilead child escape, along with her baby. 

Seriously, fuck Fred and Serena. Fuck them, fuck them, fuck them. I hope Mr. Spy lures them into a false sense of security, and just when they think they are going to skip down the road with Nicole, a they are put under arrest by the American government for treason. Of course, with my luck, the Spy will hand Nicole over and not even get some useful information because the writers have a love affair with the assholes Waterford.

I do wonder what inspired the Marthas on this suicide mission. An episode about the Martha network would be awesome.

[ferjy]

54 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

I literally spent this whole episode chucking for all the wrong reasons.

June hobbling around like Igor. She now has a limp to match her constant grimace. Next week they’ll give her a hunched back.

[tennisgurl]

Holy shit, some actual plot movement! Real creepiness and tension! Is this the same show that we`ve been suffering through the last few weeks?

June has an actual plan! Its not the best plan and it relys on a ton of people being willing to risk everyone for her and a lot of moving pieces, but its something at least! Better than her just flailing near Hannah and getting people killed. 

Not a perfect episode by far (if I have to see June stare at the camera one more time...) but very much an improvement over the rest of the season. The ceremony with June and the Lawrence's was so tense and disturbing, and was wonderfully acted by everyone. There were a lot of great beats, and that leading to Joseph deciding to help June and possibly defect to Canada with the kids to get his wife the help she needs. I mean, if Joseph was around from the beginning of Gilead, he knows where the literal bodies are buried, and could probably get away with a somewhat light sentence for any war crimes if he gives the rest of the world the information and ammunition to take down Gilead. Plus, since apparently people are willing to negotiate with Gilead and put up with their bullshit all of the sudden, they should be fine with Joseph showing up with kids and some actually useful information.

Plus, thinking about the fall of Gilead beginning because of Freds petty assholeness is just too delicious to resist. God the Waterfords. I really hope the American guy gives them jack and shit unless they want to defect and give them all the information, and then they say they can have Holly over their cold dead bald eagle. Seriously Serena, THIS is where you want your daughter to grow up? After that fucked up scene you just witnessed? If the two of those assholes get Holly back, I will have to find a table to flip.

"At least it wasn't you." That was great, best line of the season.

It is kind of interesting that they apparently faced some resistance for the whole creepy ceremony at first, and that there are "methods" to use if a guy cant get it up. Because Gilead just always finds new ways to be creepy in the most weirdly specific ways. 

Why do the writers hate Janine so much?! God cant the poor girl catch a break? This show better give her some kind of happy ending after all of this. I did really like the whole scene with Janine, June, and the other handmaid whos name I forget talk about June being a pain, and then how they can save their kids. Even though I was yelling "dont be so obvious!" at my screen the whole time. 

Edited July 24, 2019 by tennisgurl

[Umbelina]

I'm really hoping they get Charlotte out for Janine, it would be nice if Janine got to go too, but we are short on handmaid/stars in Gilead now.  They can't all hang out with Luke drinking beer in Canada.

Though, they may be bringing Alma along nicely finally.

I really thought I would hate this episode from the previews, but it is BY FAR the best one this year. 

It's time for Fred to

Spoiler

hang on that wall

, as he did in the books, hopefully Serena's little plan to deal with Spy Guy results in that happening.  Serena can go be a Jezebel.

[ferjy]

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

It started off so well!

I'm interested in Washington DC, and in the running of Gilead, and the whole cracking down on handmaids

  Reveal spoiler

does fit with the book, which mentions in the epilogue that "things get much worse" for the handmaids before it ends.

I didn't even mind June's new purpose, I can buy being pushed beyond the limit, and wanting to do something drastic, and I loved how the other handmaid's avoided her, even revolutionary Alma.

I liked that June had trouble walking from months of being on her knees on a hard floor too.  So, things that seemed so promising really.

I loved Mrs. Lawrence explaining that Mr. Lawrence would be tried as a war criminal if they left, but hey!  Let's just forget about Canada negotiating with Gilead to give back a female rape child.  sigh

Then it all starts to go to hell, courtesy sadistic, obsessed, jealous (of both Joseph and June) creepy Fred.  The ceremony even brought back the horrors of the first time we saw it, as they all prepared.

Outstanding acting from all three of them during that preparation for unwanted "ceremony," as they talked about the consequences of not doing it.

The previews made me think the whole damn group would be in that room with them for the sex.  Thank God for small blessings.

Oh, kudos for that "At least it wasn't you." to that asshole Fred. 

I was seriously dreading this one, but...for once, pleasantly surprised.  More shocking still?  June finally came up with an actual plan!  Giving Lawrence the option of "being a hero" and leaving Gilead with his sick wife.  She also finally gave something back to another handmaid, telling Alma about her son!

Aw Janine!  Thank God for that eye-patch, you are back in the story now!  Janine's boy is in Califonia!  Oh please let this mean we will get to see California, even though on that leaked map, most of California is

  Reveal spoiler

rebel-held.

Serena yes, if your obsession gets Spy Guy back in the story, go with it!  However, suggesting Fred turn traitor will probably not end well for either of you, so I hope somehow, Fred is idiotic enough to actually do it. 

I was really dreading this episode, and am shocked and pleased that it was SO good.

I know where Mrs. Lawrence‘s medication went. Umbellina’s been hording Eleanor‘s happy pills! 😄 Sadly, I just can’t share your enthusiasm.

[goldilocks]

3 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I can't find a preview that doesn't spell out most of the episode, so I just thought I'd get this thread up and running.

The episode is actually “Bear Witness”, if that makes a difference.

[Umbelina]

3 minutes ago, goldilocks said:

The episode is actually “Bear Witness”, if that makes a difference.

On Hulu it just says "Witness."  ????

[goldilocks]

7 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

On Hulu it just says "Witness."  ????

Oh. Several websites say Bear Witness, so I don’t know. Aunt Lydia mentioned bearing witness so it makes sense. 

[Umbelina]

1 minute ago, goldilocks said:

Oh. Several websites say Bear Witness, so I don’t know. Aunt Lydia mentioned bearing witness so it makes sense. 

I'll go by the episode title on Hulu, unless a mod decides to change it.

[AnswersWanted]

46 minutes ago, ferjy said:

June hobbling around like Igor. She now has a limp to match her constant grimace. Next week they’ll give her a hunched back.

Oh jesus, I wanted someone to karate chop her at the knees, the hobbling was ridiculous. 

I'm sure her back will certainly be hunched after having to carry this giant shitload of a storyline on her back. 

Also, the Jaws line at the end...can they get sued for that? Please? I'm asking for a friend.

16 minutes ago, ferjy said:

I know where Mrs. Lawrence‘s medication went. Umbellina’s been hording Eleanor‘s happy pills! 😄 Sadly, I just can’t share your enthusiasm.

My enthusiasm meter is on empty, zero, because there is absolutely no real suspense to the story anymore,  imho. 

June is winning, full stop. All roads will lead to success for June, they literally refuse to write it any other way.

There's no need to worry about her getting captured, for long, or dying or even being effectively punished. Hell, they don't even patrol around this chick anymore. 

June is more likely to steal a bulldozer and raze down the infamous wall of Gilead than there's a 1% chance she could actually end up on it. 

Nothing can happen to her, she's so fucking bulletproof and so she will always come out on top, somehow, someway. 

It's so boring and predictable, there's no real feel of drama or real sense of urgency to me. 

June is untouchable, the Lawrence's are her only allies with power so they're fine, she has to have some handmaids to help her out so they obviously can't all die in her stead and the same goes for the Marthas' resistance movement, plus Fred and Serena have to exist for some shit reason so everything is a foregone conclusion. 

Maybe some random extra gets the axe, or we get another Eve or Ofmatthew situation, but that's about it. 

I couldn't even be bothered to care about the ceremony scene because I didn't care enough about any of the players.

Lawrence is a war criminal, Mrs. Lawrence is crazy, June is a superhero, wake me when something important happens that I didn't already call five weeks ago. 

[Umbelina]

Forbes review

This site has been very critical about this season, and for very good reasons, and the beginning of this review details the structural problems the show has, even this episode, where they change the basics of Gilead seemingly at will.

Best of all, they talk about my favorite thing, that leaked map!

It goes on to eventually praise this episode though, understandably, it was the first one with any real forward movement, and did have the best line of this year. 

Damn, I hope they follow this up by continuing the forward progress about how Gilead runs, and the outside world.  I don't have a great deal of faith in that, but this episode is the first to make me feel hopeful about the show in a while.

[jenn31]

Ugh! What a farce.

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Oh, kudos for that "At least it wasn't you." to that asshole Fred. 

I can’t help but think the whole reason for the forced ceremony was so June could utter that line. Oh she’s such a witty beast. 

[jenn31]

16 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

It's so boring and predictable, there's no real feel of drama or real sense of urgency to me. 

Yep. I don’t even bother rushing to watch it at midnight anymore. No more waiting in anticipation. I’m going to make myself stand in the corner for even thinking for a split second that this episode might be better. 

[Ariam]

Surprisingly i didn’t  hate the whole episode. It does stand in the middle of s really bad season though and thus there are many things that don’t work because of the lack of story telling before it. 

I hate that it HAD to be Janine’s son who died. And I don’t understand why June had to lie to her. And what’s happy about her son being with a “super nice” commanders wife in Gilead? There’s also an example of how June’s vocabulary is always ridiculously poor, specially for an editor (last week “I know I’ve been shitty”) it’s like they try to portray her as one of the bad girls Lydia sees her as rather than a professional woman who was an editor of all things, this really annoys me. 

I get get annoyed about the lack of consistency in the Gilead leadership world. Season one showed that the guy who brought Nick into the sons of Jacob was n1 in Gilead, when he died Waterford was for a moment (making it possible for Serena to change the rules). I hate that they had to bring in DC which makes no sense. And how come Fred now is stuck with Wilson and making rules again (house decorating rules 😁). What about all the other leaders in DC? Or even the others in Boston?? Why is it just the two of them at the handmaid inspection??? 

And wasn’t Joseph supposed to be very powerful too? It makes so little sense. I really want Fred to finally die so his ugly face can be off the screen and his role removed from the stupid script. 

It also made made no sense why would Serena shoe Fred the satellite phone? What would make her trust him? He cares only about himself. Her character makes so little sense anymore. It would have made sense for her to break andcwant to get out and realize that Gilead is bad for all women (hello she was at the hospital seeing 22 year olds come in for fertility inspections!) it makes no sense that she would want that life for Nichole. 

Its all a bit too sudden and insane to be liked, Too poorly written and ridiculous that they are now getting dozens of children out. And June is staying back again because of Hannah? Yet she will survive again and season 3 will end exactly like season 2. 

So so yeah the episode was ok on its own but as part of the season it sucks as the rest of it. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

6 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

Also also, who the hell is updating all those handmaids’ records in the basement?

Those boxes looked like they hadn’t been touched in the 5 years Gilead has existed, but somehow they’ve all totally up to date, June's record contained Holly’s birth.

Eleanor said that the red center keeps sending files to the house for Joseph to review. He is just putting them in the basement sight unseen.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I hated watching June have to beg and cajole Lawrence into doing the ceremony to save them all from being punished. It's bad enough to endure the entire process (especially with everyone sitting in the living room waiting for them to finish), but having to talk the architect of this madness into participating to keep the rest of the household safe was just ugh.

[AllyB]

I may be alone in this but I absolutely loathed the "at least it wasn't you" line. Fred is a bona fide psychopath and June is an obsession for him. June knows this. June knows that the reason he came into her relatively safe home and insisted on witnessing the ceremony was because of his obsession. During the inspection, he made a beeline for her and let her know that he wants her to be in DC with him. She made a massive mistake when she said Lawrence treated her with respect. It inflamed Fred to interfere with her life right there and then, to exert his power over her and make sure she was raped while he sat and controlled it all, then had her examined by the doctor in front of Lydia to further the violation. The retort of 'at least it wasn't you" may have felt satisfying in the moment but it would have terrible, terrible consequences.

[AnswersWanted]

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Eleanor said that the red center keeps sending files to the house for Joseph to review. He is just putting them in the basement sight unseen.

Well that shows how much I was paying attention during that scene. I still think it’s pure plot convenience that he’d even have those files kept in storage to even begin with, storage she could so easily access at that, but June had to find them somehow and there was literally no other way she could have gotten her hands on them in that short stretch of time. 

If this episode had been episode 2 of this season, they might have actually pulled it off, showing June putting pieces together in time to actually make a move that seems believable and not the love child of contrived storytelling to get to a certain ending no matter what. 

But why write it out over the course of the whole season like real writers would when you can shoehorn all this shit into one episode and call it a day. 

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I hated watching June have to beg and cajole Lawrence into doing the ceremony to save them all from being punished. It's bad enough to endure the entire process (especially with everyone sitting in the living room waiting for them to finish), but having to talk the architect of this madness into participating to keep the rest of the household safe was just ugh.

My eyes were rolling so hard during that bit. Just why?

I know they wanted BW to emote with Lizzie super hard for the next Emmy reel but it was really off-putting to me actually.

The way they write Lawrence sometimes makes him seem as if he has as much of a mental illness and personality disorder as his wife, and maybe he does.

Or more likely the show has no clue what this character’s personality even is supposed to be from one episode to another.

Other than being a powerful helpmate for June he isn’t given much else to do. He exists to mainly save June’s ass. 

He came in and rescued Emily first, then of course he saved June right after from certain death and he's been hanging around ever since to assist her whenever the plot calls for it.

It's episodes like this one that remind me of how a figure like Lawrence is put forth with such a heavy handed portrayal of a character that hasn't really been fleshed out and is solely used to benefit a main character and their goals.

That or they’re trying to angle for a sympathetic edge with him too, as they keep doing with the Waterford’s.

These people may have orchestrated and organized this whole fucked up world but remember, they’re people too, they hurt, they cry, blah blah bullshit. I’m so over almost all of these characters now. 

1 hour ago, AllyB said:

I may be alone in this but I absolutely loathed the "at least it wasn't you" line. Fred is a bona fide psychopath and June is an obsession for him. June knows this. June knows that the reason he came into her relatively safe home and insisted on witnessing the ceremony was because of his obsession. During the inspection, he made a beeline for her and let her know that he wants her to be in DC with him. She made a massive mistake when she said Lawrence treated her with respect. It inflamed Fred to interfere with her life right there and then, to exert his power over her and make sure she was raped while he sat and controlled it all, then had her examined by the doctor in front of Lydia to further the violation. The retort of 'at least it wasn't you" may have felt satisfying in the moment but it would have terrible, terrible consequences.

Let me join you at this table, I brought danishes. 

I literally snorted when June mouthed off to him because of course she did, even after Fred managed to get Lawrence to rape her purposefully as punishment, she still could sass him like it wouldn’t cone back to bite her. 

Now we all know it won’t, the season is nearly over so there’s only so much Fred can do to her at this point anyhow, but it totally was another display of thoughtless behavior from a woman who just fucking should know better. 

She’s a low as dirt handmaid and she isn’t out of Gilead yet, just by having a penis Fred holds an immense upper hand over her ass but would you know it? 

This show has totally written themselves into a corner with June as she has to continually act out for so much shit to keep happening to her.

Otherwise she would have spent this whole season with her head down, mouth shut, eyes on the prize, and used the safety of Lawrence’s home, no monthly rapes etc, and his powerful influence to gain key advantages in her fight for freedom. 

June is her own worst enemy for the stupidest reasons, and that is why I find myself unable to root for her or give a damn what happens to her now. She’s going to survive whatever happens anyway, that much is obvious, 

Edited July 24, 2019 by AnswersWanted

[Ariam]

My current favorite person on the show is Mrs Lawrence. I love her acting, I think she’s better than (the actress playing) June 😉 

Edited July 24, 2019 by Ariam
Clarified

[ferjy]

1 hour ago, AnswersWanted said:

Let me join you at this table, I brought danishes.

She’s a low as dirt handmaid and she isn’t out of Gilead yet, just by having a penis Fred holds an immense upper hand over her ass but would you know it? 

May I scarf down a danish with you? I almost slapped the TV (June) when she made that remark. The man just proved how dangerous he can be to her and instead of backing down she does the exact opposite. A perfect segue to the next scene would be June hanging on the wall. Of course instead, we’re supposed to high five this stupid act. It’s all just too ridiculous. Instead of the tense scary scene it should have been, again it’s brought into farcical territory. 

Edited July 24, 2019 by ferjy

[AnswersWanted]

13 minutes ago, Ariam said:

My current favorite person on the show is Mrs Lawrence. I love her acting, I think she’s better than (the actress playing) June 😉 

Preach.

She’s like an older Janine to me, if she was the only one that managed to get to freedom along with my sweet lamb Janine and her baby girl frankly I would be thrilled. 

6 minutes ago, ferjy said:

May I scarf down a danish with you? I almost slapped the TV (June) when she made that remark. The man just proved how dangerous he can be to her and instead of backing down she does the exact opposite. A perfect segue to the next scene would be June hanging on the wall. Of course instead, we’re supposed to high five this stupid act. It’s all just too ridiculous. Instead of the tense scary scene it should have been, again it’s brought into farcical territory. 

Of course, we all need the pastry energy to get through these tiring episodes. 

June’s mouth has everyone in Gilead running scared. She can tell off everyone and not even face a cattle prod to the kidneys anymore. 

Too bad they cannot use her big mouth to rescue everyone, it’s large enough to hold the entire population of Gilead. 

[Umbelina]

A V Club   Agrees with Forbes, basically a very good episode, and they can see the previous episodes leading to this, but not as well as they could have.

Quote

“Witness” has something else in common with “Heroic”: Both wind up being pretty frustrating to watch, because it’s easy to see how much more impactful they might have been, had the rest of the season actually built to this point. That’s not to say that “Witness” is a perfect episode. The first 10 minutes or so consist of June hobbling around (Elisabeth Moss’ physicality is excellent, as June looks both injured and unhinged and telling people she’s going to “get the children out”—a real step back from the self-awareness we saw percolating in the lsat episode, as she’s got no plan, no power, and no apparent memory of the fact that she just got two people killed. To her (and the show’s) credit, Moss doesn’t play June like a calm, focused hero who has her shit together: “No, I am not fuckin’ okay,” she tells Alma, and you cannot blame anyone for keeping her at arms’ length. So yes, it all feels like more of the same, but at least it’s slightly more clear-eyed about it.

Quote

Next week (probably): Chekhov’s cell phone finally goes off.

I am SO looking forward to Chekhov's cell phone going off!  Come back Spy Guy!  Bring the USA with you!  We'd like to check in with you guys, hey, how's the resistance going?  What does Europe say?  Can you please get Fred in a lot of trouble?

VOX

I haven't found the round table discussion yet, this is just Todd, earlier in it he talks mostly about Commander Lawrence, which reminded me that I wanted to mention something about him.

Did I understand correctly?  He and his wife have NEVER participated in "The Ceremony?"  No wonder his Martha's have felt free to be one of the centers of the resistance!  They are all under a death sentence for not reporting that, as well as any Handmaid that's been assigned to him so far. 

I keep getting the feeling he helped create all of this as a little mental game, but has no interest in actually living it, but now, as this episode seemed to show?  Is trapped by it anyway.  That makes June's line about Gilead coming for him more pointed.

Quote

“Witness” foreshadows so heavily that June might lose her life trying to get kids out of Gilead that I’m not sure The Handmaid’s Tale can avoid at least toying with her death, even if it views her as necessary to its own future. June’s choice to send these kids to Canada, to kidnap them all over again, should effectively mean that she’s signing her death warrant, and no matter the plot gymnastics the series could try to attempt, it will be very hard to avoid a bad end for the character.

And weirdly, killing off June could be the best way to save the character overall. Elisabeth Moss has been terrific in the last two episodes, largely because she’s playing a June who seems to somewhat realize her worst tendencies. The scene in which she lies to Janine about what happened to her son (June tells Janine that her son is living in California, when the record shows that the boy died in a car accident shortly after being taken from Janine) is a gorgeous bit of acting from both Moss and Madeline Brewer.

Refinery

Leads with "We finally know how much time has passed..."  I forgot to mention that!  Now we know for sure, 5 years since Gilead started snatching children.
 

Quote

But the figure has an even greater significance — one that June picks up on right away. Five years isn't long for adults, but it's a lifetime for kids. While going through Commander Lawrence's (Bradley Whitford) files, she realizes that infants when Gilead was formed are now 5; kids like her daughter, Hannah, are now pre-teens. These kids have no memory of the old world order. For 5-year-olds, Gilead being overturned might actually not be something to celebrate. They known no other way.

So, time is running out for people like June, who dream of rebellion. For every year that passes, they'll have to undo the mental manipulations that have been done to the children.

Finally, this number is one of the most important bits of world-building in The Handmaid's Tale so far, because it gives us a clue into the outside world. In the last five years, the international community has done nothing to stop Gilead from flourishing. No one has intervened in Gilead's genocide of journalists, in its fatal work camps, in its state-enforced rapes, in its Salvagings. If countries haven't intervened yet, they certainly won't now. In fact, it appears the opposite is happening: Canada may cave to an extradition treaty.

The citizens of Gilead have been abandoned by the rest of the world. If change will happen, it must come from within.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Umbelina
fixed link

[go4luca]

10 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Serena can go be a Jezebel.

Wouldn't that be fun.  Karma, Lady.  Karma. 😁

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I hated watching June have to beg and cajole Lawrence into doing the ceremony to save them all from being punished. It's bad enough to endure the entire process (especially with everyone sitting in the living room waiting for them to finish), but having to talk the architect of this madness into participating to keep the rest of the household safe was just ugh.

June talking Lawrence through the need to go through with the ceremony didn't bother me.  I think she genuinely cares for Mrs. Lawrence and didn't want to see them end up on the wall.  Overall, for me, it was an incredible interaction & wake-up call for all of them.

4 hours ago, AllyB said:

During the inspection, he made a beeline for her and let her know that he wants her to be in DC with him. She made a massive mistake when she said Lawrence treated her with respect. 

She made probably one of her biggest mistakes yet uttering that response.  You could see the recognition cross her face immediately after, knowing she just royally effed up.

Edited July 24, 2019 by go4luca

[tennisgurl]

I guess with no television/movie/sports/half the population cant read (and I assume nothing good is allowed anyway) they can have the time to memorize all of these scripted call and responses for every conversation, and can remember all of these weird rituals that Gilead has for every little thing.

Really, I am just over Gilead, and if its going to get worse before it gets better, I would like to get it moving. Like, we get it Gilead is super oppressive and evil, can we move on to something else at some point? I would like to see things in Gilead get worse ( even bigger hardliners in DC start making moves) and then finally start to crumble, because Gilead is a completely stupid nonsense country that is more interested in being evil than being practical, and we get to see the US government take it back, and everyone has to deal with rebuilding the country. We can see a sort of Nummburg Trail thing where they are putting the Commanders on trail to figure out who was in charge and if people were "following orders" and what that means. We can see the citizens try to get back to a life that they thought was lost, but suffering from almost a society level PTSD or terrible guilt or other complicated feelings about everything that happened. We can show kids that have only known Gilead and have to adjust to this new world, or people that miss Gilead and want it back. We can see anger from people who felt that the world abandoned them when Gilead rose. There are so many complicated issues there in rebuilding a country after this, and it sounds so much more interesting to me than just a million more seasons of watching June glare into the camera while Fred and Serena continue to not die and Gilead continues to exist.

The thing about Gilead is, its kind of like those planets of the week that the Star Trek crew would visit, where their whole society is about just one thing, and they use it as a metaphor for some issue in society to talk about. Even the alien races we know better are like that to an extent (Vulcans are planet logic, Klingons are planet warriors, Ferangi are planet capitalist) but the point is, its a whole society based around one thing so that it can be more of a metaphor to talk about social issues or the human condition than a place that really makes sense as a world. Gilead...well they would call themselves planet children but its its planet oppression or planet misogyny, and thats fine...for a book, movie, or a few seasons of TV. You dont need to do a bunch of world building about how this world actually works and how people live there because its about what they represent than about the actual society. Its over the top evil is more of a way to discuss less over the top but still dangerous evils that exist in our world. The thing is, that stops making so much sense when your there for longer, and you do have to start thinking about how weird a society just based around one thing is or how people actually live in such a weird specific place (its why the handmaids with their lips ironed together is so ridiculous. Its a metaphor, a very ham fisted one, but it makes no sense logically, and now that we have been in Gilead for so long, its no longer just a metaphor for real world issues, its a location we have been in for three seasons now, so we ask questions about the logistics of the place and intentionally hurting your breeding stalk that your society supposedly needs to exist just to be evil and make a point to viewers.. There is a reason why the long running planets and aliens from Star Trek eventually tried to move beyond their one trait and tried to expand, people get bored of a place that is so shallow to the point that its nonsense if you stay too long there. A post- Gilead world could be the shot in the arm this show needs. 

[Ramona]

So, am I reading this correctly?  The reason that Commander Lawrence helps the handmaids and Marthas, is because they in turn help get his wife medication and hide her mental illness?  Does Gilead persecute the mentally ill?  If that is true, then it makes sense and helps me understand his character better, but I just wish it had been clearer earlier on.  

[Ariam]

7 minutes ago, Ramona said:

So, am I reading this correctly?  The reason that Commander Lawrence helps the handmaids and Marthas, is because they in turn help get his wife medication and hide her mental illness?  Does Gilead persecute the mentally ill?  If that is true, then it makes sense and helps me understand his character better, but I just wish it had been clearer earlier on.  

True it had never been clearly stated that mental health medication was illicit. Or had it? 

[HeySandyStrange]

11 minutes ago, Ramona said:

So, am I reading this correctly?  The reason that Commander Lawrence helps the handmaids and Marthas, is because they in turn help get his wife medication and hide her mental illness?  Does Gilead persecute the mentally ill?  If that is true, then it makes sense and helps me understand his character better, but I just wish it had been clearer earlier on.  

I wouldn't be surprised. They call babies that are born with birth defects and other illnesses "shredders", which implied to me that they are subject to "mercy" killing, since Gilead only wants to deal with healthy babies. I wouldn't be shocked if children and adults who are found defective in Gilead, physically and mentally, are quietly gotten rid of, or accused of some kind of crime to have an excuse to murder them. It is something I think that would be vastly more interesting to explore that aspect of Gilead then constantly giving June a platform to emote, but the writers seem to want to piss that opportunity away.

[Ramona]

Witness” foreshadows so heavily that June might lose her life trying to get kids out of Gilead that I’m not sure The Handmaid’s Tale can avoid at least toying with her death, even if it views her as necessary to its own future. June’s choice to send these kids to Canada, to kidnap them all over again, should effectively mean that she’s signing her death warrant, and no matter the plot gymnastics the series could try to attempt, it will be very hard to avoid a bad end for the character."

I have been thinking this since the first episode of this season.  Nick says to June when she comes back, that she is going to die there in Gilead.  And she says "Don't you think I know that."  It didn't seem like a throw away line to me.  And it's not the only time she has referred to  her own death.  So yeah, I can see how killing her off may be unavoidable.  But I hope it will serve the plot, unlike a lot of plot choices this season.  

[ScarletLetter]

13 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

A good episode overall.  But every time June kept saying: "I'm going to get the kids out," I kept thinking, "No, other people are going to get the kids out through channels you've made no effort to develop."

This! The scene with the "muffins mean yes" was great imagery, and I'm glad we're finally getting somewhere, but I'm also annoyed that June didn't come up with any specific plan beyond "Uh, what if we got a big truck?" Like, no one in the Martha network ever thought of this, and they needed June to give them the idea? They can't even procure Mrs Lawrence's medication anymore, but they're going to smuggle out dozens of children, Gilead's most precious commodity? Whatever. 

Also, when June was looking through the handmaid's files, I was amused that apparently one child's name was Prudence before Gilead and they changed it to Jennifer! Did they get that backwards?

[Umbelina]

1 hour ago, Ramona said:

So, am I reading this correctly?  The reason that Commander Lawrence helps the handmaids and Marthas, is because they in turn help get his wife medication and hide her mental illness?  Does Gilead persecute the mentally ill?  If that is true, then it makes sense and helps me understand his character better, but I just wish it had been clearer earlier on.  

Vulture

has a very interesting take on Joseph this week, they say:

(All of which makes me wonder if Hjalmar Schacht, the economist who worked with Hitler to strengthen the German economy in the 1930s, was an inspiration for Lawrence. Schacht was tried at Nuremberg, though not for crimes against humanity, and acquitted after it came to light that he had been in contact with the Resistance, been imprisoned in Dachau himself, and had denounced Hitler’s policies.)

I always got the idea that Lawrence "created" Gilead's economic set up more as a mental "what if" exercise, and then it all actually caught on and happened.  He isn't religious at all, and he seems to have scorn for what his creation has wrought, and last night I think we learned that he's NEVER participated in a "ceremony" before and promised his wife that would never happened.

We also know he got Emily out, because she's "smart" and he chose June, although we don't quite know why, maybe because she stayed on, and deep inside he wants to see the inevitable downfall of Gilead, and thinks it will come from resistance within.  That would also explain how he allows the Martha's in his house to be a part of it.  He obviously knows they are.

June offering him a possible way to get his wife out, and him safety was probably the first glimmer of hope he's had in a long time.

47 minutes ago, Ramona said:

Witness” foreshadows so heavily that June might lose her life trying to get kids out of Gilead that I’m not sure The Handmaid’s Tale can avoid at least toying with her death, even if it views her as necessary to its own future. June’s choice to send these kids to Canada, to kidnap them all over again, should effectively mean that she’s signing her death warrant, and no matter the plot gymnastics the series could try to attempt, it will be very hard to avoid a bad end for the character."

I have been thinking this since the first episode of this season.  Nick says to June when she comes back, that she is going to die there in Gilead.  And she says "Don't you think I know that."  It didn't seem like a throw away line to me.  And it's not the only time she has referred to  her own death.  So yeah, I can see how killing her off may be unavoidable.  But I hope it will serve the plot, unlike a lot of plot choices this season.  

I do think June might die, but not yet, and I do believe that she no longer cares about that, she's worn down by this horrific system, and like some oppressed people, has decided other things are more important than her life.  At first it was just Hannah, but now her goals are bigger, as many kids as she can save, which doubles her possibly allies, and opens up the stories of other handmaids, all of whom want their children saved, but had no hope.

Someone who doesn't care about their own life can change things, I just wish that suicide bomber had changed more in Boston.

ETA

Another thought about Lawrence.  He created this system based on misogyny and

Spoiler

racism

.  He did that because he KNEW it would work, to rally the idiotic masses.  I don't think he is either of those things personally though.  It was simply an effective political tool, give them someone to blame and they will fall in line. 

It's always worked, so he used it.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Umbelina
the ETA about misogyny

[Umbelina]

8 minutes ago, ScarletLetter said:

This! The scene with the "muffins mean yes" was great imagery, and I'm glad we're finally getting somewhere, but I'm also annoyed that June didn't come up with any specific plan beyond "Uh, what if we got a big truck?" Like, no one in the Martha network ever thought of this, and they needed June to give them the idea? They can't even procure Mrs Lawrence's medication anymore, but they're going to smuggle out dozens of children, Gilead's most precious commodity? Whatever. 

Also, when June was looking through the handmaid's files, I was amused that apparently one child's name was Prudence before Gilead and they changed it to Jennifer! Did they get that backwards?

June has though, with all of her mistakes and escapes she's learned a great deal about how it's done.  Her saying "we" at that point would have been stupid...she didn't even yet know how many would agree to be involved.

Also, Lawrence is key, and June's the one who has given him a reason to do this, his wife.

Ha!  That Prudence/Jennifer thing is funny!

[Umbelina]

7 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Eleanor said that the red center keeps sending files to the house for Joseph to review. He is just putting them in the basement sight unseen.

That kind of fits with all those other files he had on those women in the cages when he made June choose (what was it, 5?) to save.  Glad June chose those with skills for the resistance. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

14 hours ago, LittleRed84 said:

I do think they get out with Lawrence and his wife. I base this only on a post earlier that stated the description for e12 is something like “

Can we remove spoilers?

[rubinia]

Other handmaid, to June: "Just thinking that could get you sent to the wall!"

Me: LOLOLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

[Ms Blue Jay]

I was so excited thinking that the season is over but now I find out that it's not 😞

[Umbelina]

16 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I was so excited thinking that the season is over but now I find out that it's not 😞

I'm seriously hoping for a boffo finale with Fred on the wall!

I mean, there has to be a reason they decided to make him an even bigger asshole right?  I'd love it if Serena gets him killed with her Canada/CIA plan, and then, husbandless, finds out just how much worse it can be as a female in Gilead, without her privileges. 

ETA

I think these last three episodes have the potential to be wild, it's been set up after set up for a very long time, maybe we will get even more payoff in the last three.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Umbelina
the ETA

[bmoore4026]

This episode of The Handmaid's Tale has been brought to you by bread.

[Umbelina]

This is another interesting review of this episodes, and it brought up a couple of points I didn't think about, Too Fab  

Aunt Lydia and Winslow are definitely not going to get along...
 

Quote

Winslow could be heard talking to Aunt Lydia about rolling out the veils and rings across Gilead (you know, that awful act we saw in Washington D.C. where handmaids have their mouths closed with rings and must wear veils of silence.

When Aunt Lydia suggested this was strictly voluntary, Winslow seemed to scoff at this, just as he wasn't pleased to see Janine's non-regulation eyepatch. Aunt Lydia is going to be challenged very soon with the growing cruelty of Gilead in how it treats its women. Eventually there has to be a line that will be too far even for her, right? Right?!

That also made me think about the two new interesting commanders, along with the increasing odiousness of Fred.

Maybe Fred really IS going to die, or be

Spoiler

imprisoned by Spy Guy?

(spoiled preview thing only there.)

Maybe Winslow will be the new biggest bad?  That would leave Lawrence though as well, but perhaps he stays behind to aid in undoing his nightmare creation, Gilead?  Although, I have to admit, I wouldn't mind seeing Emily and Joseph together again, working from Canada to liberate Gilead, or doing press together, with Moira.

I just have a feeling that 3 front and center Commanders is a bit much for this show, so...something is going to give?  I hope that's Fred's balls being crushed right before they hang in and leave his body to rot.

I really don't want Serena safe either, I'd love to see her at Jezebels, not because I like Jezebels, but because I want Serena to really SEE, and experience for herself, the hypocrisy of the world she helped create.

[jenn31]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I was so excited thinking that the season is over but now I find out that it's not 😞

This deserves a separate ha ha ha from the reaction smilie. 😄

Edited July 24, 2019 by jenn31