Regina, the Evil Queen: The Only Happy Ending Will Be Hers

[KAOS Agent]

The baby storyline was so poorly received that I think the idea was to get it over as quickly as possible. We got a little of Regina whining about how she'd sterilized herself and now was sad about that and angry that her sister wasn't that stupid and could carry a child. Never mind that we've seen how easy it is to fix magic induced barrenness in show (even Lana commented that they could easily fix it with a potion). Pistachio clearly means nothing to Regina or Robin since they didn't even bother to give her a name before ditching the poor newborn to go off adventuring in the Underworld. And now that Zelena is not pregnant, we can get on with the fighting. It will be time to invoke the Regina Exception Clause and have Regina work to kill her (even though it was totally uncool for Emma to try to do the same damn thing).

Edited February 20, 2016 by KAOS Agent

[KingOfHearts]

 

The baby storyline was so poorly received that I think the idea was to get it over as quickly as possible.

Which, ironically, was how the writers attempted to get rid of Adultery Queen as quickly as possible. Replace one bad soap opera plot with another.

[mjgchick]

Robin really gets nada being with Regina. At least Belle gets to tell Rumple off once in a while Same with David and Killian even more so.

[Rumsy4]

Robin can literally be replaced with a decorative lantern, and it would make no difference.

[KingOfHearts]

Robin can literally be replaced with a decorative lantern, and it would make no difference.

I ship #FurnitureQueen

[KingOfHearts]

In case anyone has forgotten what Redeemed!Regina's face looks like when she's holding a lethal weapon and controlling an innocent person against their will. 

Edited February 23, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Faemonic]

Oh, that hair...I hope someone thinks of breaking up the curls a bit. Actually, the same Disney Princess Floof that Emma had going on in the first season would suit Regina now. (They gave a Curse-Breaking TLK on Henry, Lightest Magic Ever, and temporary Savior title to Regina already; doubt Emma misses the Princess Hair.) Either that, or straighten it all out into something sultry, or give her back the season one bob.

 

I keep getting the feeling that Regina's Evil Relishing Evil expression is an acting and directing agreement that Regina still has some of the Evil Queen in there...but, what are the writers going to do with it? If, like in Neverland, the point is that you need some pragmatic power-playing evil to get stuff done...better show that it's necessary. If it's to show that innate evil can be tempered and transformed with the right company...better show that curbing and transforming. If it's a vicarious thrill of power and forget the consequences...okay, well, that's probably it.

[KAOS Agent]

This came from the commentary from the writers of "Birth" and it makes me sick. They are talking about the scene where Regina is using the dagger to control Emma and force her to do something that she does not want to do.

 

"Writer 1: That it can be a woman who is her enemy who is now her friend, and the performances here are super great, and also so that Regina is such a good friend that she’s willing to do what it takes, so to speak, and control her for the greater good. This obviously keeps with her character as the Evil Queen but also as her character as a friend of Emma’s.

 

Writer 2: And that’s also another thing that we love about her character, just being able to be friends and care about everyone but also have the edge to do something like this. Many people would be unwilling to go that far, but that’s why we love to watch her."

 

I just can't with this kind of attitude. Forcing Emma to do something like this while she is begging Regina to stop is not a sign of friendship. It's abuse. And it was completely unnecessary because Hook was able to go to Emma and talk it through with her without literally forcing her to do it. This is why I spend so much time getting confused by Regina. It's obvious the writers don't actually see that what she's doing is wrong. They think it's a good thing and that she's such a great friend for doing this. But then they'll have another character showing a healthy approach that actually works better and show me how Regina isn't a great friend. So while I look at the Evil Queen (which is interesting that they say it's in keeping with her character because I think they really don't get that the Evil Queen didn't have friends for a reason) doing a truly terrible thing, they see it as wonderful. Which just brings the Regina Exception Clause in because when Emma later uses Excalibur as a guard on Hook, it's shown to be a bad thing and Emma does not want to control Hook using the sword and feels terrible about it, but Regina is such a great friend for doing it and reveling in the power it gave her. I don't get it.

Edited March 1, 2016 by KAOS Agent

[Camera One]

These Writers are truly disturbing.  *Another* thing we love with her character, eh?  I'm sure it's an endless list.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Camera One

[Curio]

I cringed at that commentary too, KAOS Agent. This is just a topic that I'll never be on the same page as the writers. Do these same writers think Regina was being "such a good friend" when she was laughing about how she could accidentally force Emma to do things with the dagger earlier in the season? Aren't these the same writers who had Hook condemn Snow for wanting to use the dagger on Emma in the premiere?
 
"You know the worst part, Swan? When your own mother wanted to use the dagger to stop you from crushing Merida's heart, I'm the one that convinced her that you needed to make that decision yourself."
 
How can they stand behind Hook's line that scolds Snow's behavior, but then praise Regina for doing the same exact thing? And actually, in Snow's situation, you could argue that it made more sense for Snow to use the dagger to protect Emma because Merida's life was literally on the line in front of them. Snow was not only trying to prevent her daughter from turning darker, but also trying to protect an innocent woman from being killed. What if Hook's optimism didn't work and Emma crushed the heart? Then we'd all be on Snow's side. But when Regina was trying to force Emma to tell the truth about her fear of the future, it wasn't even necessary to bring the dagger into the situation. (Also, a lot of people tend to forget that Emma gave Regina the dagger with the caveat that it should only be used as a last resort to destroy her. Never once did Emma say Regina could use the dagger on her to force her to confess information.) They could have reached the same conclusion without torturing the information out of Emma. Just because you add the words "as your friend" in front of commanding someone to do something doesn't make it right. What if Regina was torturing Emma by dunking her head under water until she confessed? Would she still be a "good friend" because she was just helping a gal pal break down her emotional walls any way she could?
 

And that’s also another thing that we love about her character, just being able to be friends and care about everyone

Are we watching two different shows? Since when does Regina "care about everyone"? Isn't one of Regina's defining character traits that she doesn't like many people? She still seems to not like Hook and makes fun of him often, she hates Zelena, she still blames Rumple for making her a monster, she's not very friendly with Belle, she seems annoyed by the Charmings most of the time, and she'd pretty much have no friends if Snow and Emma didn't bend over backwards to please her. Sorry, but Regina doesn't care about everyone. She cares about a select few.
 

Many people would be unwilling to go that far, but that’s why we love to watch her.

 

Again, how can they say this about Regina but not Snow? If these writers did a commentary about 5x01, I'd bet a good sum of money that none of them would say, "That's what we love about Snow, she was willing to go that far and control Emma with the dagger, and that's why we love to watch her." No, they'd probably scold Snow for wanting to take the easy route and praise Hook for believing in Emma. So which side is it, guys? Is it cool to control Emma with the dagger if you want her to confess her feelings about Hook? Or is it cool to control Emma with the dagger to prevent her from murdering a woman? Why are they sending two different messages? The REC has reached new heights.

[Camera One]

This type of friendship is very normal.  This was how tea today with my best friend went...

 

ME: I'm feeling quite stressed, but I don't want to talk about it.

 

FRIEND: Aww.  I wish you didn't feel that way.  Talk to me.

 

ME: I don't think I'm ready to share what I'm going through yet.

 

FRIEND: (takes out gun and points) TALK, damn it!  Tell me what's bothering you RIGHT NOW or I shoot.

 

ME: Oh thank you for getting me to share my innermost struggles.  It really takes someone special to go that far.  It's like that time you tried to kill my mother.  Well, the fifteenth time you tried to kill her, I mean. Or that time you tried to strangle my father.  Or that time you tried to poison me, but my son ate it instead.  He loves you BTW, let's grab brunch soon.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

It's so difficult to be a fan of Regina and hear crap like what those writers said. I won't whitewash her errors nor dismiss the notion that she's a psychopath. Can't people just enjoy Regina being evil? Why is there a need to make her a hero? She'd be fine as a grayer character reluctantly siding with the angels. (After graciously being allowed to.) That route doesn't make complete sense and has its moral flaws, but it's better than BFF Saint Regina of Awesomeness. I just don't understand the logic in forcing her to be someone she's not.

Edited March 1, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

That little look into the writers' minds does give me a better understanding of why Regina is so off to me. They talk about keeping in character with the Evil Queen and also talk about her great care for her new friends and I start to understand that they really don't see that the Evil Queen and redeemed hero are mutually exclusive things. They want Regina to still be the Evil Queen and say mean things and act badly, but they want to give her the shinies, so now in their minds as long as she's acting on the side of the heroes (or, in the case of 4B, not working against the heroes), she can do pretty much anything because she's edgy and it's for the right reasons. Which is rather interesting given that the theme of 5A was that doing the wrong thing for the right reason was very, very bad.

 

The Regina Exception Clause is actually part of the thought process with the writers. It's okay because it's Regina and she cares, but she's still the Evil Queen. 

[Curio]

Can't people just enjoy Regina being evil? Why is there a need to make her a hero? She'd be fine as a grayer character reluctantly siding with the angels.

 

Season 3 Regina hit these notes perfectly. She wasn't super BFFs with the good guys, but you could still tell she somewhat cared about them because she wanted to protect Snow from Zelena and worked with the Charmings during the Missing Year. And at this point, the Charmings weren't bending over backwards to help Regina with her issues, either. But then Season 4 came along and it all turned into a dumpster fire.

 

I just don't understand the logic in forcing her to be someone she's not.

I think the writers and Lana are so in love with the Evil Queen persona that they're unwilling to let her go, but current-Regina will always continue to suffer because of it. Almost every actor on the show would probably say that it's more fun to chew the scenery and be a villain, but if you truly want to be a redeemed character, you have to take on the difficult task of making the "boring" hero role more exciting. Characters Emma, Hook, and Bandit Snow were forced to take the "nice" roles and still made them interesting. But when they tried to do the same thing with Regina, we found out she's no longer interesting when she's nice. I wish they'd stop writing Regina to be this awesome hero and keep her more on the friendly-villain side rather than the bitchy-hero side.

[mjgchick]

WTF is wrong with Adam and Eddy that they think what Regina did to Emma was ok? What is their problem with not seeing how god awful Regina can be? Her controlling Emma didn't even help and she was still wrong into thinking that Emma's issues was her liking dark magic when in fact it had to do with being happy for once.

I'm sorry but Regina is still a bully but they are to blinded by their love of the Evil Queen that they don't realize how messed up the Regina character is. How do you have Emma being ok with Regina controlling her "for the greater of good." or whatever bullshit but then turn around and shame both Emma and Snow for doing it? (Could you imagine if Hook was so desperate and did that to Emma?) That's some serious double standards. No wonder why they refuse to acknowledge what she did to Graham was rape. Its not because they don't think women can't be rapist. Its because they don't like to think that Regina is one even though they wrote her as one. Regina could be an interesting hero. The problem is Adam and Eddy refuses to accept she's an awful person so we get this dull 2 dimensional character.

I give up.

Edited March 1, 2016 by mjgchick

[Rumsy4]

She's Bold and Audacious, remember?

[daxx]

I did notice Colin was very quiet during that exchange. I assume he sees it differently.

[Mathius]

Season 3 Regina hit these notes perfectly. She wasn't super BFFs with the good guys, but you could still tell she somewhat cared about them because she wanted to protect Snow from Zelena and worked with the Charmings during the Missing Year. And at this point, the Charmings weren't bending over backwards to help Regina with her issues, either. But then Season 4 came along and it all turned into a dumpster fire.

 

Technically, the last 5 episodes of Season 3 (starting with "Bleeding Through") started that dumpster fire.  

 

But otherwise, yeah, Season 3 Regina was being handled well as the "token evil teammate" who everyone treated as such.

[Rumsy4]

Regina greeting the Blind Witch "Hello, child-muncher" was intended to be funny I know, but I wish the witch would have responded with, "Hello, Evil Queen, who kept sending children to me."

One of Regina's typical self-unaware utterances, as per usual. :-p

Also, what's with Regina giving pep talks to everyone these days?

[Camera One]

She still claimed that Hansel and Gretel killed the Witch instead of herself.  Not good when you're blaming kids for your crimes.

[Rumsy4]

I know, right??

[KingOfHearts]

At least the Blind Witch was able to point out that Regina was the one who killed her.

[Souris]

SHOOT: Regina

 

I got a kick out of this (truncated) link in the Spoiler thread! (Don't click on it if you don't want spoilers!)

 

If only!

[mjgchick]

OMW her hair looks good in that link.

[KingOfHearts]

 

One could argue that that's who she is. Temper, fire and sarcasm is a part of her and that's how she deals with certain situations. I guess, it's not everyone's cup of tea though. Personally, I wouldn't like it if she lost all of it, but that's me. (and I guess, that's something that shouldn't be discussed in the episode thread further?!)

 

She wouldn't be herself without the snark. But it should be under two conditions - one, it should be balanced with supportive, edifying things like in 5x15. And two, it should recognize the line between wit and hurtful insults. Making fun of someone's disability (like missing a hand) is not funny banter. "Tell your timbers to stop shivering, pirate," is.

Edited March 28, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[mjgchick]

Also telling Snow "and you found her." when talking about her daughter who she had to give up because she (Regina) wanted to kill her daughter.

[Mari]

One could argue that that's who she is. Temper, fire and sarcasm is a part of her and that's how she deals with certain situations. I guess, it's not everyone's cup of tea though.

 

She wouldn't be herself without the snark. But it should be under two conditions - one, it should be balanced with supportive, edifying things like in 5x15. And two, it should recognize the line between wit and hurtful insults. Making fun of someone's disability (like missing a hand) is not funny banter. "Tell your timbers to stop shivering, pirate," is.

Yes.

 

Plus, if she's allowed to be snarky, rude, and insulting, because "that's who she is," then other characters should be allowed to react appropriately.  

 

Other characters should be rude, angry, or insulting back when she steps over the verbal line.    It's more interesting, and less infuriating, when the other characters don't just doormat and accept it.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Mari

[KingOfHearts]

Comparing the Evil Queen flashbacks between S1 and S4/S5, I can see what went wrong and why she seems more cartoonish. While Regina has always been over-the-top and chewing the scenery, in S1 she had clear motives as a character. She was driving the story. We weren't seeing how terrible she was and how it contrasted with the present. There wasn't a dichotomy between the Evil Queen and Mayor Mills. She was believably the same person, yet somehow I can see her more redeemable then than I could see today. Her writing and Lana's acting portrayed an actual character and not just a caricature.

 

Whenever she murdered someone, for example, it had more meaning. When she offed her father to cast the curse, you could see her inner conflict and it wasn't used just to psycho her up. When she killed Graham, it also fueled the story and we saw her emotional state at the time. It doesn't diminish the fact she's a homicidal maniac, but her actions weren't taken lightly either. Present day, killing people is played for laughs. In S1, it was used for developing her character as well as the rest of the plot. This is just one example of how she used to be written as a full character instead of a cardboard cut-out.

 

I am talking about the Evil Queen here - not Redeemed!Regina. They're too different people. Obviously. They should like totally have separate threads!

Edited March 31, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[formerlyfreedom]

A reminder - this is the spot to talk about Regina, NOT the spot to talk about fans or fandoms. Those posts belong in Fandom and Viewer Issues, and will be moved and/or edited.

[Mathius]

I just realized why Regina is so likable this half-season.  One is that the cold, mean-spirited "sass" is gone (ex: this recent episode where she sasses about Hook's bad fashion style - now that's actually funny, plus she also complimented his reflexes in the same sentence.)  And another is that she's basically "St. Regina" from the latter half of 3B but the Mary Sueishness is offset because they aren't having her illogically do all of the good stuff like TLK Henry and break a curse or suddenly be able to use light magic. They're having her mostly say stuff to help others as both a means of showing that she's changed and that she's actually atoning, which is much easier to swallow, welcome even.  The inspiring pep-talks can get a little annoying since it happens in every episode, but given the alternatives we've seen in the past?  I'll take it!

Edited April 11, 2016 by Mathius

[Curio]

One is that the cold, mean-spirited "sass" is gone (ex: this recent episode where she sasses about Hook's bad fashion style - now that's actually funny

 

It wasn't funny to me because it wasn't even that good of an insult. Regina and Hook are wearing fairly similar outfits right now, so was she making fun of her own wardrobe? It would be a different story if he was still wearing his pirate outfit, but when has it ever been implied that Hook's current outfit isn't in fashion? I would have gone for a hair joke before an outfit joke if I were her.

[Shanna Marie]

I think there are a couple of big differences between 3B and now. One is that more time has passed and Regina has done more on the side of the good guys, so she's earned the label of "friend." And she's also using it herself. In 3B, I think she'd have thrown up before she admitted that the Charming family were her friends. They were the ones calling her a friend or family and groveling to be in her good graces, even though she hadn't really earned that yet. Now they've been through a lot more together, and she's the one calling them her friends.

 

The other thing is that she's no longer St. Victimus. She's showing signs of self awareness and admitting that she's done wrong. From her attitude, I could almost believe that she's apologized and admitted where she was in the wrong in Offscreenville, whereas in 3B while the good guys were acting like they'd received an apology, she was still acting like she was the one who was owed one, so I couldn't imagine that she'd ever apologized to them. The way she's acting now, I can pretend that an apology happened offscreen, which makes her a lot more tolerable.

 

And, yeah, so far there's been no Mary Sue stuff, where the rules of the universe bend around her to make her able to do stuff that isn't supposed to be possible, for no apparent reason.

[Rumsy4]

I actually really liked Regina in this episode. She was supportive and helpful overall. She is trying hard to save Zelena. Even her usual snark didn't have any bite. Keep going writers! 

[Mathius]

Yeah, I know some people ragged on Regina a little for caring more about getting intel for Zelena than caring about her, but I think she was genuine when she said "it was both"; Lana Parilla did a good job conveying actual concern from Regina toward her sister's emotional state.  Now I'm actually really looking forward to 5x19 and seeing their relationship improve.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Mathius

[Mathius]

What the heck happened?  We were doing so well with Regina in 5B, and then "Ruby Slippers" came along.

 

It pissed me off that once again Regina's actions are being completely whitewashed/retconned.  The episode was indicating that the heroes in general ("your friends" as Zelena tells Ruby) banished her to Oz, presumably because it was necessary, which is nonsense.  Regina banished her to Oz when she was not being a threat to anyone, she banished her purely out of spite.  Thus, what happened to Dorothy in Oz is partially Regina's fault.  But if that was brought up, all of Regina's sanctimonious calling out of Zelena for screwing over Dorothy and creating this mess would sound - gasp! - hypocritical and lacking in self-awareness!  Ugh, I hope that "Sisters" puts the writing for her back on track again.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Mathius

[Curio]

I kept waiting for Regina to bring up specific events from her Evil Queen past to help relate to her sister in their conversation during Ruby Slippers, but the writers only allow Regina to say vague lines like, "Trust me, I know." Okay, want to tell Zelena how you know what she's going through? Are the writers afraid that if Regina specifically mentioned how she was the one who put Snow under the exact same kind of sleeping spell Zelena put Dorothy under that the audience would lose sympathy with her character? Or is it the writers trying to cover their tracks because they realize if Regina listed off all the terrible things she did in the past that Zelena currently does, the double-standard between how the heroes treat Zelena versus how they treat Regina would be a lot more glaring?

Edited April 19, 2016 by Curio

[Mathius]

Just...so much of what came out of her mouth in the episode toward/regarding Zelena was bullshit when you consider the things she herself has done and also the things she hasn't done.  

 

Like her immediately frustrated reaction to hearing that Zelena had done something else bad.  Regina, you weren't so easy for the heroes to deal with yourself during your own conversion to good, and they had more patience and tolerance than you're showing.  Her "someone you screwed over" remark, as if she isn't the reigning champion of screwing people over. Her "Fight your instincts and help us, it's the only way you'll see your little girl again, trust me."  So much wrong here considering what went down in the whole Regina-Henry situation back in S2 that I don't have room for it all.  Her "Just because you made one bad move...or thirty". I get that this is meant to be sass, but Regina's bad moves waaaaay outnumber thirty, she has no business making a backhanded remark like that to Zelena.

 

And above all, there's the fact that she's pressing so hard for Zelena to help rectify some great harm that she caused another person...pressing much harder than she has ever tried rectifying many of the harm she's caused to other people. Even now in 5B, we haven't actually seen her seek out any of the people she killed who are in the Underworld and help them to move on.  It was just Henry Sr., her own father...then nothing, even though it looked like this plot would be an ideal chance for that kind of redemption. After being likable for so many episodes, this backslide is really disappointing. 

Edited April 20, 2016 by Mathius

[KingOfHearts]

I honestly didn't see any difference in Regina's attitude from 5x18 and the rest of 5B so far. She should be less condescending when it comes to Zelena, though. (I wish someone was able to call out Regina during her redemption like she is with her sister...) I realize she's supposed to be this tough, go-getter type of character that doesn't sugarcoat. But it comes off as hypocritical and makes the side of the angels look very unappealing. It's a combination of what she's saying and her tone.

 

One issue I do have with 5x18... Regina gets after Zelena for bargaining her own child, but then she says if she ever wants to see her child again, she'll say what happened to Dorothy. Pistachio has been used as leverage on more than one occasion by both sides of the coin. I don't understand why they can't settle on visitation rights. Using her to make a co-parent do something is not cool.

Edited April 20, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Yeah, that "one bad move, or thirty" line really stuck out.  Overall, Regina has been much better written lately, but saying something like that suggests she's still not very self aware.  

[KAOS Agent]

Regina is being written like a convert or a reformed addict and many of them tend to go hardcore with their new belief system and push it on others. They also tend to be self-righteous about how much better they are now and look down on others who are in their previous position. 

[Curio]

I realize she's supposed to be this tough, go-getter type of character that doesn't sugarcoat. But it comes off as hypocritical and makes the side of the angels look very unappealing. It's a combination of what she's saying and her tone.

 

I think this, combined with the fact that the writers seem to be purposely avoiding any real negative confrontations in the Underworld between Regina and actual victims she was terrible to, is what my biggest grief is at the moment with her character. We've been shown on numerous occasions throughout Season 5 that Regina has taken the sanctimonious or hypocritical approach to dealing with her sister, but no one has ever been able to call her out on it. (Regina treating what Zelena did to Robin as the worst possible thing ever, yet still keeping Graham a secret from Emma; actively working to keep Pistachio away from Zelena, but Regina freaks out whenever anyone threatens to take Henry away from her; forcing Zelena to become mute and treateing her like crap in Camelot when the heroes have shown her mercy time and time and time again, even after she nearly killed Henry; the fact that Regina had to tap into dark magic to use the Apprentice's wand to separate her sister from her baby and send her to Oz, with no intention of her ever escaping and seeing her baby again, which hasn't been communicated to the audience as being a bad thing; etc.)

 

In any other television show or work of fiction, I'd expect these things to be the building blocks for setting Regina up for a fall and knocking her down a peg, but because it's TS;TW, I think we're actually supposed to view Regina as always being correct and this is a sign of "how far she's come." Even when she controlled Emma with the dagger, we weren't supposed to see it as a bad thing, and the writers made sure to force Emma to say as much.

 

I realize we still have a few episodes left in the season, but I'm not holding my breath for any juicy scenes where Regina genuinely feels sorry about what she did to an actual innocent victim from her Evil Queen days. The random guy she killed in the 100th episode was immediately sent to the fiery pit without any conversation about what she did, and Regina barely had to lift a finger to get her father's forgiveness. What would happen if she actually ran into Graham? Or Owen? Or Owen's father? Those are the victims that I'm curious about Regina dealing with in the Underworld, but if the show wants us to believe Regina is this huge hero now who is always right, then I doubt we'll actually see her struggle with legitimate issues like that, even though this would have been the perfect arc to do it.

 

I also thought it was interesting the way Killian genuinely thanked David for coming down to save him, even though he didn't expect or want their help. (Speaking of David and Killian, now that's the kind of slow and begruding progress I expected to see between the Charmings and Regina throughout the years.) Did we ever get a genuine "thank you" like that from Regina at all throughout the Operation Mongoose plot? And why didn't Regina have to apologize to Emma and her family for going along with a dangerous plot that ended up being a terrible idea that put people's lives at risk?

Edited April 20, 2016 by Curio

[Mathius]

I also thought it was interesting the way Killian genuinely thanked David for coming down to save him, even though he didn't expect or want their help. (Speaking of David and Killian, now that's the kind of slow and begruding progress I expected to see between the Charmings and Regina throughout the years.) Did we ever get a genuine "thank you" like that from Regina at all throughout the Operation Mongoose plot? And why didn't Regina have to apologize to Emma and her family for going along with a dangerous plot that ended up being a terrible idea that put people's lives at risk?

 

Agreed. Though try telling that to Lily Sparks, who notes it being "baby steps toward decency" for Hook, while ignoring Regina's lack of gratitude for just about everything. Sigh, I really need to stop hate-reading her reviews....

Edited April 20, 2016 by Mathius

[andromeda331]

I'm glad I wasn't the only one bothered but Regina and Zelena's scene. Not to mention her outraged

that Zelena casted a sleeping curse. Gee, Regina its not like you never did that before. To Snow

or to freaking horse. Or tried to do so to Emma but got Henry instead.

[Kktjones]

I was just reading a recap of Lana's panel at the UK con today and had a total WTF moment. Apparently she said that she doesn't think Regina really wanted to kill Snow. That she had a lot of opportunities but never did and that if she had killed her she would have nothing to live for. I am just completely scratching my head right now. Does she really believe that?? What about those times where she thought she DID kills Snow and was happy about it (in 3x22 when she burned her alive, in 4x12 when she crushed her heart, etc.)? And what about all those hundreds of people she killed for not telling her where Snow was? Should they have just told her because she wouldn't have killed Snow anyway? I feel like she just completely undermined the entire basis of the show!

[Camera One]

I think that was the theory some of us had in Season 3 when they threw in even more Regina-almost-kills-Snow flashbacks.  But yeah, the Writers contradicted that in the 3B finale and again most recently in the 100th episode, for pity's sakes.  I'm sympathetic to the actors trying to build their own headcanon to justify their characters' actions, but this interpretation is difficult to support given those two instances.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

I like the idea a lot. You don't even have to squint to see it in S1 or S2. Regina used curses instead of death for no good reason. (I don't buy that Storybrooke was "worse than death") 3A killed it when she started choking her.

Edited April 24, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Mabinogia]

yeah, Early seasons it was obvious Regina didn't want Snow dead. She could have done it any time but she never did. She had 24 hour access to young Snow after marrying her father, and when he died it would have been quite easy to stage an accident. She could have killed her instead of putting her under a sleeping curse, she could have killed her instead of sending her to Storybrooke. I'm kind of mad at the writers for undoing the idea that Regina couldn't quite bring herself to kill Snow. It was a nice little callback to the fact that Regina saved Snow's life to start with. But of course the writers shit all over that like the shit over pretty much any interesting storylines they happen to stumble upon.

[Camera One]

I don't think Regina had any idea what Storybrooke would be like, so before the Curse, she really did think it was going to be worse than death.  In Season 1, the Sleeping Curse could be interpreted as worst than death because you were in an endless nightmare with all your regrets.   

 

At first, it was interpreted that Regina asked Rumple for the Dark Curse since she couldn't hurt Snow in the Enchanted Forest, but in another world, she could.  Yet she didn't hurt her in Storybrooke, for inexplicable reasons.  

 

They tried to explain that Regina didn't kill Younger Snow because she didn't want to give the people a martyr.  But then later, it didn't matter?  The more flashbacks they do, the more they contradict themselves.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Camera One

[Mabinogia]

It's the OuaT way, contradicting themselves. I wish they had gotten more into the fact that Regina's whole "revenge" fire was fueled by her mother and Rumple. She was really pretty much a tool they used to get what they wanted. Cora, to get back into the castle though that kind of backfired on her, and Rumple to get to Storybrooke so he could get to Bae. I suppose I could buy that they talked her out of outright killing Snow because that wasn't going to get them what they wanted. And maybe after a while she just gave up on the idea of really killing Snow and maybe even grew a twisted admiration for the girl who would not die. lol

 

I just feel like there was a lot more they could have done with the Snow/Regina story than flip flop back and forth based on the current plot needs.

[YaddaYadda]

Regina and Snow were just playing an elaborate game of cat and mouse. No harm, no foul (unless we count everything that happened, but that we should forget because it never really happened even though it was written, and did happen).