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Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Final Countdown

scarynikki12

By scarynikki12
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tv echo
tv echo

You're welcome, @AveMaria30! Thank you, everyone, for making this Arrow forum a place I've wanted to visit and participate in over the past several years. Although I'll continue to post anything Arrow

Velocity23
Velocity23

Seems Emily is coming back

KenyaJ
KenyaJ

I never had any doubt, but I'm so, so excited. Best news ever!

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Featherhat

Featherhat

6 hours ago, way2interested said:

Plus, how could E-2 Robert even be the GA when now it's pretty clear that that green costume is Mia's XD?

Well doesn't mean there wouldn't be another costume for JS somewhere but if Robert isn't listed it's probably not E2, unless he recently died, I thought I saw him listed on twitter as one of the faint names though.  I guess the characters could be from a couple of different Earths. No Thea anywhere it seems. 

5 hours ago, Trisha said:

Meanwhile, KM is the new “leading lady.” 😂 

Well KC seems to have 2nd billing on the scripts, does that mean anything about screentime. I wasn't paying much attention in previous seasons. 

With the alts question definitely seems limited to either him or the regulars. Which makes sense because of wanting to bring back so many characters. 

way2interested

way2interested

4 hours ago, Featherhat said:

Well KC seems to have 2nd billing on the scripts, does that mean anything about screentime. I wasn't paying much attention in previous seasons. 

That isn't her billing, that's just the format they use on the listing for the script (ex: BL is credited first on that list, even though for all of s7 KM was billed before him in the actual opening credits). DR is going to be 2nd billed while KC will probably keep her "with" status. Not that the billing exactly matters, since when KC was actually 2nd billed in s3-s4, DR and EBR still overtook her in screen time.

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Featherhat

Featherhat

BL is listed with the rest of the regular, along with LG so he probably is and just isn't listed. I can't think if any reason the actor wouldn't be available, KM would be the one more likely to have other projects. If he isn't, it doesn't necessarily mean much re focus, where did Sea Shimooka's "regular" role end up? But we'll see I guess. CH isn't listed so I guess he's not a regular anymore and is disappearing with the rest of the FF adults. 

44 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I really hope that 801 is not anything like the 100th episode.

It could be, it would be a weird choice for a 10 ep final season. A "what might have been" but this time he actually has two kids trying to carry on his legacy in the future in the same ep, which I assume will tie together at some point is weird.

If Robert's not there (I was thinking Marrett Green was Robert Queen) then it's probably not E2 because I can't imagine they'd miss out on that angst, maybe another Earth. 

There was some speculation elsewhere that Oliver would meet BS on E2 and she'd either get recruited and go with him or help out Earth 1 in his absence. 

So the "Olicity" part of this ep is Oliver seeing or meeting a blonde who looks or reminds him of Felicity maybe but is NOT her?

tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

This is interesting - I Googled "Marrett Green" and got this result...
https://arrow.fandom.com/wiki/Marrett_Green  

Quote

Marrett Green is an actor. He portrayed various news reporters throughout the first and second seasons of Arrow.
latest?cb=20140608203440 

Here's his IMDb page:
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0338134/

Edited by tv echo
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)
7 hours ago, Featherhat said:

Well KC seems to have 2nd billing on the scripts, does that mean anything about screentime. I wasn't paying much attention in previous seasons. 

It looks like the names are listed in the order in which the characters first debuted on Arrow (separated by series regulars and recurring/guest stars).

Edited by tv echo
way2interested

way2interested

(edited)

801 is using the same location from 512 for those mansion shots, it seems

 
and looks like they found out that the internet found this out already
https://ew.com/tv/2019/07/12/arrow-colin-donnell-josh-segarra-season-8/?utm_term=11A5472A-A4B6-11E9-A4FD-09C64744363C&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_content=link&utm_campaign=entertainmentweekly_ew
Quote

EW has learned that Colin Donnell and Josh Segarra will guest-star in the CW superhero drama’s farewell season. Donnell played Oliver’s best friend Tommy Merlyn in season 1, and Segarra starred as season 5 big bad Adrian Chase/Prometheus; however, fans should expect a twist when they return, because this is Arrow.

“Adrian Chase comes back in a different way than expected,” showrunner/executive producer Beth Schwartz tells EW. “We’re really excited about that because obviously he’s one of our favorite villains.” Meanwhile, Donnell is “not coming back as the Tommy we know,” teases executive producer Marc Guggenheim.

Edited by way2interested
Featherhat

Featherhat

So almost certainly a multiverse Earth then and E!Whatever versions of the characters. Looking forward to both CD and JS (and ST!!) Shame there's no Thea/Willa listed though. I hope she's able to come back in one of the other episodes so Oliver and Thea can say good bye and we can find out what happens to her. 

Not surprised about the location, given the guest stars listed. 

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statsgirl

statsgirl

Seeing all those names on the script, with Moira, Malcolm and Tommy back, it breaks my heart that Felicity isn't going to be there.

And I never got my Chase/Felicity scene, and it looks like I won't be getting it now either.

Not sure if I'm actually looking forward to all these characters back in whatever form if there is no Felicity.  I thought I would but as the reality sets in, I'm having doubts now.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

3 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Seeing all those names on the script, with Moira, Malcolm and Tommy back, it breaks my heart that Felicity isn't going to be there.

And I never got my Chase/Felicity scene, and it looks like I won't be getting it now either.

Not sure if I'm actually looking forward to all these characters back in whatever form if there is no Felicity.  I thought I would but as the reality sets in, I'm having doubts now.

If this is taking place on E2 then it makes sense in a way that Felicity wouldn't be hanging around Starling City.  Per BS she was a big wig CEO that everybody on the planet knew.

If it's some other earth, the same kind of "already moving in a different sphere" explanation could be used.  Plus, how incredibly hard would it be for Oliver to see Felicity but it not be his Felicity.  He'd probably be relieved she's not there.

If it wasn't for the note about Adrian Chase and Tommy not being the ones we knew, I would have suggested "Starling City" was just going to be a flashback before the name change.    

Featherhat

Featherhat

(edited)

He's also added some commentary:

https://canadagraphs.weebly.com/arrow-blog/arrow-shoots-scenes-for-the-final-season-premiere

So it's possible/probable Tommy is the GA on Earth!Whatever Oliver and The Monitor end up on first. 

RG was filming, as was probably KC, maybe JS, possibly Barrowman and KM, AS, JDJ who all left together, no mention of BL yet but that doesn't mean he wasn't around. 

Sounds like a busy day with all three storylines were filming (assuming RG is just in the present not the future as per BS and not the alt!Earth) and we don't know which one, or more, KC is in yet. RG might have been doing a future goodbye scene with Zoe. 

Quote

Let’s hope he asks about it when moderating Arrow’s SDCC panel:

I'm sure he will, given that he seems to think she'll be back. I expect lots of questions about Felicity even/especially now she's no longer around. And entertainment sites know they'll be clicks to be had by quotes about her.

Edited by Featherhat
Featherhat

Featherhat

(edited)
57 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I think it would actually be that Tommy is that world's Oliver with the whole "No one is reading 'Not Oliver's' correctly" thing

Did MG say that? Hmm, not just GA but an Elseworlds type scenario? BC potentially being with GA in that or a straight up "Tommy is the GA" scenario would be hilarious and awesome. "You did want them together...." and hey CD and KC did have some good chemistry IMO. 

The other thing would be this IS E2 and Oliver meets up with a reformed(ish) BS there. Maybe Tommy would have taken over from Robert? Though if Tommy is GA it would probably be a completely different Earth. I'd also like CD to have the chance for a Dark Archer turn. He was great for that little scene as Prometheus. He could be doing that in this ep I suppose and not GA.

JS could be doing anything as Adrian both good and bad.  I wonder if one or both of them is in multiple episodes? 

Edited by Featherhat
scarynikki12

scarynikki12

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I'd love it if Colin turned out to be the second Green Arrow on Earth 2 or even the only one on, say, Earth 12 but I think that the presence of (I assume) Black Siren points to Earth 2 so I'm going with him being the Dark Archer. The simplest explanation is that Oliver goes to Earth 2 for The Monitor, runs into Siren (who is now a, sigh, Hero) as she battles Merlyn, and they defeat him. Maybe E2 Tommy gets turned toward redemption (allowing Colin the chance to join the Crisis shenanigans if he's available) or maybe he does like Earth X and chooses death but the show will finally get to do the Oliver and (doppelanger of) Laurel team up against Tommy that they originally envisioned when the series was created. If the 100th taught us anything it's that, while they were fine making the change from their original vision of where the show would go, they will take any opportunity to let that vision play out. It would be hilarious if I'm wrong and Oliver doesn't interact with either and they just have a side story while he does his thing for The Monitor. I don't expect that as Amell and Colin will want to share scenes but it would make me laugh.

way2interested

way2interested

12 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

I'd love it if Colin turned out to be the second Green Arrow on Earth 2 or even the only one on, say, Earth 12 but I think that the presence of (I assume) Black Siren points to Earth 2 so I'm going with him being the Dark Archer

He'd be the Dark Archer with a GA costume though? Would that be a thing?

Tbh just because KC is there I don't think confirms that it's E2, especially if she has a different costume where she still had the same costume in 722 as in 2040. She would just be a different version just like anyone else.

Guessing when SA said no alts he meant for himself, as in he's not playing any alt version of himself.

Featherhat

Featherhat

From Canadagraphs:

Quote

But Tommy Merlyn looked a little different than the one we used to know, sporting a full beard. Oh that reminds me, 1 other thing I saw that I can not quite put my finger on what it means yet is... during lunch 2 stunt men in Green Arrow attire came out, 1 looking like how Oliver did, the other, had a big fake black beard on. make of that what you want. I have theories, but I wont post theories here

So he's hinting about GA more than anything. I could also see him as Dark Archer and a BS team up against him to be honest, because I do think that's something they'd be interested in as part of the final episodes. Either would fit the spoiler about him not being the Tommy we know. Maybe the different versions of both Tommy and Chase are potential recruits?

I do expect some Oliver and Siren interaction at some point whether it's here or somewhere else. With the whole handshake and quick redemption it's too good an opportunity to pass up. I was surprised they didn't do it when she and Felicity actually became friends last year.

Velocity23

Velocity23

Like i said KC is going to direct.

8 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

I do expect some Oliver and Siren interaction at some point whether it's here or somewhere else. With the whole handshake and quick redemption it's too good an opportunity to pass up. I was surprised they didn't do it when she and Felicity actually became friends last year.

I wasnt. The BOP episode made it clear they dont care for any BS and Oliver interactions. And i dont think the character KC will be playing in episode 1 will be BS from E2. 

Featherhat

Featherhat

It looks like KC was hinting about directing this year in that post then. Good for her. I'm guessing that's one of the things that's announced at SDCC next week. 

16 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

I wasnt. The BOP episode made it clear they dont care for any BS and Oliver interactions. And i dont think the character KC will be playing in episode 1 will be BS from E2. 

She could well be playing a different Earth version of BC, and if that version is with Tommy as GA that's kind of awesome. 

I was a bit surprised that they didn't have a thaw between Oliver and BS not that they didn't have lots of scenes together, but kind of like the time the campaign manager told Oliver to ditch Laurel as a friend and they became (briefly) friends for the first time in years right before she died. It would be something to tick off as done before the show ended.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy if Oliver and BS never have any substantial interaction but I wouldn't be surprised either seeing as it's the last few episodes. They made it clear enough since she rejoined the show that they prefer to keep their interaction to a minimum but I could see it as a last bone to KC. 

It's highly possible that BS scenes are mostly in the current Star City or she's one of the only adults interacting with the kids in the FFs.

Chaser

Chaser

It sounds like 8x01 is going to be packed full of guest stars, my guess is those are going to get Oliver’s time and attention not Laurel5.0. And if 7x22 (and really the last two seasons) are any indication, SA and KC will have the bare minimum interaction.  

Im glad they fixed Mia’s hair. I will say I’m looking forward to YouTubing Mia and Will scenes. 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I guess TVLine didn't like the flashforwards last season...

Who Is Big Little Lies Boyfriend, Really? Does S.H.I.E.L.D. Have a TARDIS? Did Blood & Treasure Bug Ya? And More Qs
By Vlada Gelman, Matt Webb Mitovich, Michael Ausiello, Dave Nemetz, Rebecca Iannucci and Charlie Mason / July 12 2019
https://tvline.com/2019/07/12/big-little-lies-season-2-jane-boyfriend-corey-tv-questions-answers/

Quote

17 | Given that Arrow‘s final season is a mere 10 episodes, do you anticipate being even less patient with the future storyline and any screen time it takes up? Or are you willing to “wait and see”?

Edited by tv echo
Velocity23

Velocity23

What is crucial about alt version of characters is the fact that one has to consider that they will have to appear in Crisis. So if we meet E90 Green Lantern Diggle i expect that Diggle to be part of the crossover and not E1 Diggle. Same with some version of LL. If she is in the crossover fight dont expect BS to show up. But since BS was shown in the future, there is a good bet that she will at least be heard or seen in the crossover and not other version of LL. 

Featherhat

Featherhat

I'm not sure it's going to work exactly like that. Maybe for some characters but not all. I don't think there's anything that we've heard about Crisis that would mean an actor couldn't play two versions of themselves at least briefly, although it would be a potential logistical headache. 

It's possible that Diggle will show up in the FFs or at least flashbacks from the FFs to deal with the JJ/Connor stuff meaning that he survived COIE, that doesn't mean John Diggle Stewart won't also be around in COIE or beforehand. 

I think it's going to be more complicated more handwavy than everyone merged into one. 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Some media outlets are interpreting KM's promotion to series regular to mean that she will be the one to fill the big leading lady hole left by EBR's departure...

Kat McNamara Will Be Front and Center in Arrow's Final Season
By Lindsay MacDonald | Jul 11, 2019
https://www.tvguide.com/news/arrow-season-8-katherine-mcnamara-promoted-series-regular/ 

'Arrow' Season 8: Katherin McNamara To Replace Emily Bett Rickards; Colin Donnell And Josh Segarra Return
By Jonnalyn Cortez  Jul 13, 2019 
https://en.businesstimes.cn/articles/115236/20190713/arrow-season-8-katherin-mcnamara-to-replace-emily-bett-rickards-colin-donnell-and-josh-segarra-return.htm 

Edited by tv echo
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Velocity23

Velocity23

27 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

I'm not sure it's going to work exactly like that. Maybe for some characters but not all. I don't think there's anything that we've heard about Crisis that would mean an actor couldn't play two versions of themselves at least briefly, although it would be a potential logistical headache. 

It's possible that Diggle will show up in the FFs or at least flashbacks from the FFs to deal with the JJ/Connor stuff meaning that he survived COIE, that doesn't mean John Diggle Stewart won't also be around in COIE or beforehand. 

I think it's going to be more complicated more handwavy than everyone merged into one. 

Yes Diggle might be in FF or present time. But if they introduce Green Lantern Diggle it is for him to show up in Crisis. In that case i dont see both Diggles showing up in Crisis. Same for any other character. 

insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

(edited)

Obviously on another Earth Malcolm named Tommy Oliver for reasons. And then married Moira and that “Oliver” took the last name Queen for reasons. And there’s no SA Oliver on that Earth. And comic fans will get their GA/BC OQ/LL endgame that way, via CD and KC’s characters on another Earth.

(I’m only 10% serious.)

Also, I’m so annoyed we’re still not going to get any Felicity/Tommy scenes. 

Edited by insomniadreams88
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

-- On whether he hopes to play Deadshot again on Arrow, Michael Rowe: "I've kinda let that hope go, because the business got in the way. Um, I would, you know. It would be fun to fire that character up again. I spent a lot of time with him. I really like playing him. Uh, but you know, it's unfortunate the way that business goes, that he sort of got taken off the table at a certain point. I believe that he's still alive, even on Earth-1. I don't believe that he got killed on the show. But whether the show will ever get permission or want to wake up that storyline before it ends, or bring him on another show, I have no idea. I don't have those discussions with anybody."

Edited by tv echo
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tennisgurl

tennisgurl

(edited)

If we can’t have Felicity (SOB) then I’m cool with Mia being the female lead. At least Olicity won’t be forgotten like if this became the Newbie show or something. Plus I like Team Arrow TNG in general and them being our new heroes is kind of our best option at this point.

Edited by tennisgurl
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Featherhat

Featherhat

(edited)

Well so he should! Could be anything though, there's a lot of big guest stars around and the speculation to go with that. 

11 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

If we can’t have Felicity (SOB) then I’m cool with Mia being the female lead. At least Olicity won’t be forgotten like if this became the Newbie show or something. Plus I like Team Arrow TNG in general and them being our new heroes is kind of our best option at this point.

I think there only being 10 episodes and Felicity (presumably) going off to find Oliver also helps her not be forgotten. If the show was going on a few more seasons without her but with SA they would fade her out. If they both left and NTA were around, forget either of them being mentioned ever again. 

From the quotes it seems they will be pushing Future Team Arrow as a core four hard with the origin storylines. 

I'd say LL hasn't exactly been forgotten, with odes to how awesome she was every so often, although the fact that her friends seemed to forget there was a difference between her and her doppelganger and her Dad went crazy trying to make her into his own perfect Laurel come back to him has to be a bummer. 

Mia is definitely the leading lady of the flash forwards, whether that translates into any kind of overall leading lady in the absence of EBR remains to be seen, we don't know what DD and BS are doing yet. I guess DD could be leading lady of the present day where it all goes to hell. BS could end up multiverse-ing it or KC as different LLs or with rump!Team Arrow. 

Sigh about Deadshot. MR's version was much better than the films, come on DC just a cameo since everyone else is getting one it seems?

Edited by Featherhat
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

^^^ If you have trouble reading the above articles, here are the highlights...

-- On when he first started thinking about the end of Arrow, SA: "Greg Berlanti and I first started talking about it in January of Season 6. God what is that, 2018? We sat down and just said 'I think it's time to do other things.' My initial intention was to let them know before we began production with the idea that Season 7 would be it. My favorite TV shows have all had the opportunity to write toward the ending as opposed to just treading water. Then we talked a lot about a limited run for Season 8." 

-- On what has to happen in the final 10 episodes, TV Guide: "[EP Beth] Schwartz promises 'a lot of character moments and callbacks' from the show's run. 'We want to honor the series as a whole and give everyone the send-off that they deserve,' she says."

-- Per EP Beth Schwartz (according to TV Guide), we should "expect a different structure to the season, possibly more akin to how comic books play with chronology."

-- On how much of Arrow's final season is leading up to the COIE crossover, TV Guide: "Quite a bit, confirms [EP Beth] Schwartz of this year's winter crossover, which was set up by the finale arrival of the Monitor (LaMonica Garrett) to whisk new daddy Oliver away to parts unknown. That twist will also serve as part of Arrow's series finale, says Schwartz. 'This year is going to be very different because a lot revolves around our crossover.'" 

-- TV Guide: "The team's future offspring - William (Ben Lewis), Mia (Katherine McNamara), Zoe (Andrea Sixtos) and Connor (Joseph David-Jones) - will continue to fight the good fight. 'We have something really cool planned,' says [EP Beth] Schwartz of the flash-forwards."

-- On whether viewers will get to see EBR's Felicity again, TV Guide: "That's a hard maybe. Rickards, who announced in March that she would be exiting Arrow, is no longer a series regular. But we know Felicity is still alive and raising baby Mia, the daughter she shares with Oliver (Stephen Amell), so [EP Beth] Schwartz hopes the fan favorite will pop by for a visit. 'We knew we had to wrap her storyline up in a way that wasn't permanent to leave the window open to see her again,' she says." 

-- On whether we will see Thea again, EP Beth Schwartz: "I hope so." 

-- On who Team Arrow will take on in the final season, EP Beth Schwartz hinted: "It's going to be a different villain than we've ever had on the show before."

-- On whether the end of Arrow means the end of its characters, EP Beth Schwartz teased: "You could see them on other shows... That's the fun of it for the fans, and I'm sure for the actors as well."

Edited by tv echo
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