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Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Final Countdown


scarynikki12
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I won't believe Amell until we have proof. He won't hesitate to lie when it comes to spoilers. That said, if they don't do any doppelgangers in the run up to Crisis, I can see a scenario where we do meet Green Arrow and Black Canary from other Earths and they are entirely different actors. Robert is the Green Arrow of Earth 2 so this would be an opportunity to meet him and they could bring Susanna back and have Moira be an alternate Earth Black Canary as well. If they really want to they can have a ton of fun with it.

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11 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

I won't believe Amell until we have proof. He won't hesitate to lie when it comes to spoilers. That said, if they don't do any doppelgangers in the run up to Crisis, I can see a scenario where we do meet Green Arrow and Black Canary from other Earths and they are entirely different actors. Robert is the Green Arrow of Earth 2 so this would be an opportunity to meet him and they could bring Susanna back and have Moira be an alternate Earth Black Canary as well. If they really want to they can have a ton of fun with it.

True. And now I want to see this. Or have Walter be GA. Just give me one more appearance from Walter, even if it’s just one scene and not our Earth’s. 

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We may not see any alts on the main season of Arrow but I'd be SURPRISED if we didn't see any during COIE, that's part of the fun afterall. And I doubt they'd tell him that far in advance that they wouldn't do that for the 5 part event. 

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I was trying to remember if SA had flat out lied before or was telling the truth only on a technicality etc. Snerk on Dinah as part of a GA/BC alt romance, that would unite people in being annoyed.  I don't really care if they go for it, because I was actually assuming they would before SA's comments, I would just get frustrated at the "settled" arguments ala the 100th.

I hadn't really thought that different actors might not count as alt versions, it would be amazing to see Walter in there, so there's that as well. I can definitely see it happening during the actual crossover though both different actors and same actors playing different versions. 

One thing, MG definitely picked those particular two costumes side by side to get us talking about all this so good job there. Even if they turn out to be completely different. 

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SA has flat out lied before, but those things he's lied about were things that were supposed to be surprises or twists. So if the alt-versions are the 801 twist or something then maybe, but other than that I think it's something else. And MG's posted things that people assume are something else before. Heck, he posted the visitor's pass to Slabside for the first 2 days of filming for the prison arc and no one thought that it was for an Olicity scene even though in actuality it was.

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3 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

We may not see any alts on the main season of Arrow but I'd be SURPRISED if we didn't see any during COIE, that's part of the fun afterall. And I doubt they'd tell him that far in advance that they wouldn't do that for the 5 part event. 

That is actually ridicilous since he know how future season ends when they barely finish the previous one. Are alt characters really part of the fun though? I am sure the majority of the audience wont care for the same characters with a tiny difference. 

5 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

I won't believe Amell until we have proof. He won't hesitate to lie when it comes to spoilers. That said, if they don't do any doppelgangers in the run up to Crisis, I can see a scenario where we do meet Green Arrow and Black Canary from other Earths and they are entirely different actors. Robert is the Green Arrow of Earth 2 so this would be an opportunity to meet him and they could bring Susanna back and have Moira be an alternate Earth Black Canary as well. If they really want to they can have a ton of fun with it.

Isnt 25 different canaries enough though? I dont think we need same characters who do the damn same thing. I am sure the multiverse is more than just different GA/BC pairing. 

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30 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Isnt 25 different canaries enough though? I dont think we need same characters who do the damn same thing. I am sure the multiverse is more than just different GA/BC pairing. 

For sure but the black suit has so many speculating on Black Canary that I figured they could at least bring on a good version. The suits could also be for the future storylines and we'll get to see William with some protective gear while Mia decides she wants her Green Arrow suit to be a bit brighter than her dad's.

What I really want to see, and don't think will happen for one second, is for Stanley to return in the form of Onomatopoeia. He would be great.

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4 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

For sure but the black suit has so many speculating on Black Canary that I figured they could at least bring on a good version. The suits could also be for the future storylines and we'll get to see William with some protective gear while Mia decides she wants her Green Arrow suit to be a bit brighter than her dad's.

What I really want to see, and don't think will happen for one second, is for Stanley to return in the form of Onomatopoeia. He would be great.

Arent all BC in FF wearing their old suits though. I feel people are so focused on possible BC/GA thing like its the only characters the show would focus on. I personally dont believe the characters will go meet their alternative versions if for nothing else is that it becomes a logistical nightmare during the crossover to handle all those double roles. I could see an alt of E1 people only if the E1 character in turn isnt there for the crossover. And Oliver can ask for the help of E1 characters with a phone call. And since i am convinced that the Oliver portion of the episode wont be that long to allow exploration of the different Earths. But it will basically just be short mission with Oliver recruiting the heroes.

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1 hour ago, Velocity23 said:

That is actually ridicilous since he know how future season ends when they barely finish the previous one. Are alt characters really part of the fun though? I am sure the majority of the audience wont care for the same characters with a tiny difference. 

COIE isn't an Arrow exclusive and it's about the multiverse so seeing alts makes perfect sense. And I think they do have fun seeing alts when they make an appearance, it's fun to see different versions of your faves interact. 

Edited by Primal Slayer
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4 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

COIE isn't an Arrow exclusive and it's about the multiverse so seeing alts makes perfect sense. And I think they do have fun seeing alts when they make an appearance, it's fun to see different versions of your faves interact. 

Didnt he basicalyl confirm in Australia he knows whats going to happen at the end of the series to Oliver. Yeah but you already have the regular cast of all 5 shows, you want to bring in their alts? And who decides which alts they focus on?

Also:

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20 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Didnt he basicalyl confirm in Australia he knows whats going to happen at the end of the series to Oliver. Yeah but you already have the regular cast of all 5 shows, you want to bring in their alts? And who decides which alts they focus on?

Also:

I'm not saying he doesnt know what happens with Arrow, I'm talking about the specific COIE 5-part crossover. They would do the same with how they decide who to put in the crossovers every year. 

I'm going to guess that the outfits belong to the future kids, Green is probably Mia's outfit. 

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In that case I'm going with Connor or Mia in that. Mia from an Oliver legacy POV "I am Mia Queen" way now she's made her peace with that, not that she's necessarily actually changing her name. Maybe Connor from a he's Dig's adopted son and the actor did it in LOT POV 😉 (I know). Maybe he's going off the Knightwatch grid with the JJ stuff. And we should be hearing about that actor soon. Be funny if it was William, the kid no one's guessing. 

Edited by Featherhat
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I think the green one is a guy's suit because there don't appear to be any darts* on the side. So I'm going with a Green Arrow from a different Earth, who's not Oliver Queen.

I've even seen some speculation that it's a Green Lantern suit, but I don't think so. It looks too much like an old school GA suit.

(* A dart is a fold sewn into the fabric of a blouse to provide room and shape for a woman's bust.)

Edited by tv echo
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From media recap of SA/DR panel on June 29 at Supanova Perth - I wish we had video because I can't tell from this article if the last paragraph quoted below was based on things said during this panel...

Recap: Stephen Amell Aimed His Arrows At Supanova Perth
BY RACHEL  JUL 4, 2019
https://www.nerdsandbeyond.com/2019/07/04/recap-stephen-amell-aimed-his-arrows-at-supanova-perth/ 

Quote

A natural banter flowed into Saturday’s Arrow panel that featured Stephen and David (who unfortunately could only make the last few minutes). The reason as to why the series was ending spun in the air and inevitably surfaced from a question asked by an audience member. While they had initially talked about going on for longer, it was a decision that Stephen initiated and then turned into a mutual agreement. David later remarked on the ending and used the analogy of a corporation when the boss hits the roof of a company, there isn’t another level that they can climb to. Being able to think mindfully about goals is important for Stephen, and as he felt like he had done all he could with Arrow, he wanted to put his undivided focus into another project.

There were also rumblings about the possibility of another series coming out of the woodworks which would play in tune with spin-off rumors with Katherine McNamara (Shadowhunters) at the wheel… as well as the idea of new characters coming into season eight that have been on television before but not necessarily on Arrow.

Edited by tv echo
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Been in the Arrowverse before or on somewhere like Gotham?  Hmm.

I've no idea about a spin off, I'd think that it wouldn't have enough viewers, but hey Legacies did. I kind of think they'd want something else new like Batwoman but shrug.

As for the suit could be an alternate non Oliver Queen Arrow or Connor or Mia or William  trying and failing at it (I assume). I can't tell from the pic if it's likely a man or woman's. KM doesn't seem to go on liking sprees a out Arrow very often but that doesn't have to mean it's Mia's.

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If there is another GA he will most likely be seen in passing and not for more then 30 secs. I also think since the episodes will basically be divided in 3 SL that no actual exploration of other earths is actually possible. If it was actual episodes with just the Oliver SL i could maybe buy it. But the way they splitting up the SL is honestly not possible. 

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The flashforwards were basically spent setting up Mia as the next GA. Her hero’s journey parallels Oliver’s (trained by a member of the LoA, lived a gritty life away from home to “toughen up”) her primary weapon is a bow, she was given Oliver’s quiver. I don’t know how many more anvils needed to be dropped, but people are still doubting this? Is it because she’s a woman? Because I’m getting really tired of seeing spec of the next GA being a man (Connor, William, rando unknown guy) when the show has practically held up a big flashy green arrow and pointed it at Mia. 

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Heck, KM leaves her European vacation the same week it looks like they are fixing up/fitting some costumes for s8 filming next week. All could be coincidences, but this coincidence game was already played last year with a specific result.

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I'm just proceeding cautiously because I don't want to start taking something for granted based on assumptions and have it turn out completely different, I did that with Mia last season, albeit she did turn out to be their daughter in the end. No reason she shouldn't be the next GA, she's the most likely, but that costume could also be anyone's from Robert Queen to rando thug #3 who has a snazzy costume, though both are unlikely. 

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Mia was Blackstar because TPTB wanted to hide the fact that she was Olicity's kid and didn't want to use her real name. 

Have we ever even seen this new version of Connor use a bow and arrow?

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The more I think about it, the less I want Mia to be Green Arrow V2. She's half Felicity; I want her to be her own person rather than a re-make of her father.

Connor Hawke, on the other hand, was the Green Arrow both in the AU Legends episode and in the comics. Roy and Thea learned to shoot, Connor can too.

Pleeeeeze.....

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I'd love for Mia to take the Green Arrow mantle. 

Oliver was her dad, Felicity made sure to train her so that she would know how to fight like he did, she used the same weapons he did, and given the way Star City 2040 thinks of vigilantes, it would make sense that the next person to take on that identity would do it to honor Oliver and reshape his legacy - who better to do that than his own daughter? Now that Mia understands vigilantes and no longer has a need to want to disappear (or however she explained the reasoning behind her Blackstar tattoo/name) and seems to have grown into the role of a vigilante, I'd call shenanigans if it's anyone *but* her.

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Connor wasn't Connor in the LoT episode, though. He was JJ just using a different name. Connor's a completely different person with a completely different backstory that counters the comic destiny of being the Green Arrow. Meanwhile Mia's got all the setup already along with a dynamic partnership with her own Overwatch (William), so it's not Mia stuck being a remake of her dad but Mia and William being parallels of their parents and trying to uphold the legacy, plus some likely parent issues saved for Zoe and Connor to go along with it.

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3 hours ago, statsgirl said:

The more I think about it, the less I want Mia to be Green Arrow V2. She's half Felicity; I want her to be her own person rather than a re-make of her father.

Connor Hawke, on the other hand, was the Green Arrow both in the AU Legends episode and in the comics. Roy and Thea learned to shoot, Connor can too.

Pleeeeeze.....

So Connor cant be his own person as well? I wouldnt mind Mia taking over for her Dad and she could easily do it in tribute to her father. And dont get me wrong I get wanting Mia to be her own Person.

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(edited)

You'd think this was obvious, but MG apparently had to make this clear...

ETA: I think that Mia is the next Green Arrow, but I don't think the above green suit is the next Green Arrow's suit (on Earth-1).

Edited by tv echo
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(edited)

Theory: Who Arrow’s New Season 8 Costume Is For
BY MATT MORRISON – ON JUL 06, 2019
https://screenrant.com/theory-arrows-new-season-8-costume/ 

Quote

The most likely candidate seems to be Connor Hawke. In the original comics, Connor Hawke was an illegitimate son of Oliver Queen who adopted his father's codename and followed in his footsteps as an archery-themed vigilante. The character was introduced into the reality of the Arrowverse during Arrow season 7, but with a drastically different background. Here, he is the son of reformed assassin Ben Turner (a.k.a. The Bronze Tiger) and destined to become the foster son of Oliver Queen's right-hand man, John Diggle. In the future of Star City 2040, Hawke is an agent of the government group Knightwatch and an ally of Star City's vigilantes.

The costume in Guggenheim's photo does resemble the coloration of the costume worn by Connor Hawke in the comics. It is also worth noting that actor Joseph David-Jones, who played Connor Hawke in both season 7 of Arrow and in an alternate future seen on Legends of Tomorrow, has been confirmed as a series regular for Arrow season 8. The only problem with this theory is that there is no apparent reason for the television version of Connor Hawke to don a costume, much less one with the classic Green Arrow colors.

Given the season 7 finale of Arrow, the most likely candidate for donning the costume is Mia Smoak, who practically became a new Green Arrow while fighting to save the future Star City and only lacks a costume to fully take on her father's mantle. Unfortunately, Katherine McNamara, who played Mia, has yet to be confirmed for season 8.

Edited by tv echo
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It does seem to be a bit like Connor's from the comics, not that that means anything, his LOT suit wasn't much like it. I guess because comics is the big reason why people are thinking it, that and the fact that he's the only announced FF regular now. Mia does seem a more likely choice for the show, given being Oliver's daughter, the bow etc. KM being in Rome next weekend might mean she doesn't have much to do in the premiere if she's in it. Not that that means much given the presumed big "start Oliver off on his journey" story and all the other stuff they might include. 

Pretty sure CD will be in it somewhere. 

Edited by Featherhat
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Sounds like she'll probably be busy with ep 1, not surprising unless they wanted it just with Oliver. Not sure if it says about contract negotiations but (likely)being at SDCC is possibly a sign of that. I suspect spoilers will be a bit thin on the ground again in general this season even with filming starting tomorrow, apart from cast SM locations.

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English translation: "The actress of Zoe in the future (Daughter of René) is already on the set. So the flashfowards already from the first capi we have them. OFÚ. I WANT TO OLIVER. # Arrow" ...

English translation: "Barrowman on the way to Vancouver. I REPEAT. JOHN BARROWMAN PATH TO VANCOUVER # arrow" ...

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(edited)

So 8x01 "Starling City". An Earth where they never changed the name in honour of Ray after he "died"? 2040 people decide to re re name it? Probably not time travel.

So we might get some form of Malcolm?

Edited by Featherhat
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Well no surprises about Ben Lewis or Lamonica Garrett if the monitor is hanging out with Oliver all season AND popping in and out of other shows. 

Guess they managed to get everyone back for the final season, pretty obvious with JB this morning and almost certain CD was going to feature somewhere. Great to see ST again, especially. Is that past Felicity? Alt Felicity? Stunt Felicity? Either way it's 99.99999% not going to be EBR. 

So time travel or alternate Earth......toss a coin at the moment. There is some speculation of it maybe being E2 and Oliver kicking off his multiverse exploits their because of Robert and BS.

Edited by Featherhat
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I vote alternate Earth, preferably Earth 2. It's the cleanest way to get around Emily's absence. They can reference Felicity without seeing her. A flashback would accomplish a lot of this as well but I prefer alternate Earth.

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Plus, how could E-2 Robert even be the GA when now it's pretty clear that that green costume is Mia's XD?

ETA: EW had extra comments about the FF storyline. No Rene or Dinah in the FF anymore, it seems.

https://ew.com/tv/2019/07/11/arrow-promotes-katherine-mcnamara-season-8/

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When Arrow returns, we’ll see the young vigilantes experience the growing pains of forming a superhero team. “They’re struggling with how to be a team for the first time,”  showrunner/executive producer Beth Schwartz tells EW, with EP Marc Guggenheim adding, “There’s also the feeling that these kids are just kids and they’re flying without a net. Future-Rene, Future-Dinah, and Future-Felicity are all gone, per the end of season 7, so they’re left to figure things out on their own.”

Edited by way2interested
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I can’t tell if it says “Not Felicity” or “Moc Felicity” (mentioned on camera or moment of confusion?)

Meanwhile, KM is the new “leading lady.” 😂 

Quote

TVLine first reported the news of McNamara's promotion, and as it turns out, this could be just what the final season needed. With the departure of Emily Bett Rickards in the Season 7 finale, there was a huge opening for a leading lady in this last run of episodes, and it looks like Felicity's daughter might be stepping up to fill her shoes next season. They are mighty big shoes to fill, but seeing as Mia is already well on her way to following in her father's vigilante footsteps, we're confident McNamara will deliver a killer final season for not just Mia but then entire flash-forward storyline introduced in Season 8.

https://www.tvguide.com/news/arrow-season-8-katherine-mcnamara-promoted-series-regular/

Edited by Trisha
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