Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Final Countdown

[statsgirl]

I don't see Dinah jumping to E2 simply because she has to build the Canary network on E1.

2 hours ago, Featherhat said:

Be with as is "travel with" (in a group with Diggle plus) not be together in a relationship with. They wouldn't go there now after Oliver leaving his wife and baby daughter.

I know some people are anticipating a GA/BC hook-up now that Felicity is out of the picture, but I see no greater way for Oliver to look like a scumbag than hooking up with a Laurel as Felicity spends 20 years being faithful to him and waiting till she can re-unite with him. Granted Odysseus wasn't always faithful to Penelope but those were different times.*

*bonus points to the show if they drew this story arc from s1's mention of the Odyssey.

[scarynikki12]

24 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Granted Odysseus wasn't always faithful to Penelope but those were different times.

True but we already saw that play out with his relationship with Laurel. 

I know a few people who think they’ll come full circle and have him cheat with Siren (Laurel) rather than on her like in the pilot but I told them they’re nuts. 

[Featherhat]

I remember MG had quotes from a couple of years ago saying something like he'd break the internet if he wrote Oliver cheating on Felicity.

That would just make the main character look terrible right before his grand sacrifice where they probably have Felicity go join him wherever, not to mention a meet up with Mia in there somewhere. I'm not in the slightest worried about that or swapping out Olicity for Lauriver post COIE change (seen that a couple of times), I'd just rather not have the two on screen together much because I think they still have anti chemistry and it's not fun to watch, and in terms of fandom, people saying an Oliver, Laurel, Dig OTA is how it should always have been or something, which is a minor issue in the grand scheme of things. 

That said, I still don't think it will be all season if it happens.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Featherhat

[Trisha]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

I know some people are anticipating a GA/BC hook-up now that Felicity is out of the picture

Wait, are some people anticipating that? Lol. I have lots of concerns about the new season, but that didn't even cross my mind...

[calliope1975]

4 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

I'll be upset if he isn't! Pls show, give me one shot behind bars. 

I hope he's in Slabside.

I'm trying to visualize how Oliver will be recruiting other heroes. Is he going to travel from Earth to Earth in a cosmic Scooby van, picking up people along the way? Or is it more, hey hero alternate version of x character, be ready in December to fight some interworld ending crime? 

[Chaser]

Multiverse or not, there is no Universe were Oliver cheats on Felicity. 

If they do have Oliver visit a Universe where his counterpart is with Laurel, I hope they lean into all those Ollie aspects. 

"Whose that?"

"My wife, Felicity."

"I'd hit that."

"Aren't you with Laurel?"

"Well yeah but you know.." wink wink *fist bump

[apinknightmare]

11 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

I hope he's in Slabside.

I'm trying to visualize how Oliver will be recruiting other heroes. Is he going to travel from Earth to Earth in a cosmic Scooby van, picking up people along the way? Or is it more, hey hero alternate version of x character, be ready in December to fight some interworld ending crime? 

That's kind of what I was thinking. I can't imagine these people just trailing along with him until they're needed. Although didn't someone involved with the show say that the first three episodes are like stand-alones? So maybe they don't specifically relate to recruitment but doing something else, and then Oliver runs a mobile multiverse job fair after that? 

[Trisha]

Hmmm...so maybe Oliver is going back in time in 801?

[insomniadreams88]

2 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I know some people are anticipating a GA/BC hook-up now that Felicity is out of the picture, but I see no greater way for Oliver to look like a scumbag than hooking up with a Laurel as Felicity spends 20 years being faithful to him and waiting till she can re-unite with him.

2 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

I know a few people who think they’ll come full circle and have him cheat with Siren (Laurel) rather than on her like in the pilot but I told them they’re nuts. 

1 hour ago, Featherhat said:

I remember MG had quotes from a couple of years ago saying something like he'd break the internet if he wrote Oliver cheating on Felicity.

That would just make the main character look terrible right before his grand sacrifice where they probably have Felicity go join him wherever, not to mention a meet up with Mia in there somewhere. I'm not in the slightest worried about that or swapping out Olicity for Lauriver post COIE change (seen that a couple of times), I'd just rather not have the two on screen together much because I think they still have anti chemistry and it's not fun to watch, and in terms of fandom, people saying an Oliver, Laurel, Dig OTA is how it should always have been or something, which is a minor issue in the grand scheme of things. 

That said, I still don't think it will be all season if it happens.

Yeah, it would make Oliver look awful and Laurel too, really, considering she knows about Mia and Felicity was the only one defending and believing in her in Season 7. It would make no sense to have a “redeemed” (since that’s how they view her now) character do that. 

1 minute ago, Trisha said:

Hmmm...so maybe Oliver is going back in time in 801?

Or he’s assuming the identity of another Earth’s Oliver? Whatever the reason, I hope they have him carry the ring with him in some way. 

[Velocity23]

[Primal Slayer]

Looking over COIE again, I wonder if this will be a version of Olivers mission during S8 leading up the main event

Quote

On board another satellite, a being called the Monitor summons his assistant Lyla (also known as Harbinger). He instructs her to travel to various alternate Earths and bring together a select group of super-powered beings. 

Quote

On board the Monitor's satellite, the Monitor warns his assemblage that a wave of antimatter energy is sweeping through the Multiverse, consuming entire realities. He has established certain devices throughout the various realities designed to halt the antimatter wall. He requires the heroes to travel to each reality and activate each of the devices. Nobody truly trusts the Monitor, but they realize that they have little choice but to heed his warnings.

It would be an easy enough change to adapt for Arrow.

[bijoux]

10 hours ago, calliope1975 said:

I'm trying to visualize how Oliver will be recruiting other heroes. Is he going to travel from Earth to Earth in a cosmic Scooby van, picking up people along the way?

I mean, it wouldn't be the worst thing to happen on this show.

[tv echo]

Those would make real great, superhero role models - Green Arrow, Adulterer, and Black Canary, Homewrecker...

Geekyvibes Nation Podcast (Feb. 14, 2018) - Marc Guggenheim: "I don't think so. Uh, look, I get it. I understand why you're asking, 'cause, you know, Oliver's the Green Arrow and Dinah's the Black Canary, and Green Arrow and Black Canary are together in the comics. But, um, you know, Oliver's now married to someone who's not the Black Canary or ever will be the Black Canary. And I just don't think there's any desire on our parts to tell a story about Oliver cheating on his wife.... I can't think of a quicker way to get the Internet to hate me more than it already does." (MG made this comment in response to the interviewer asking if there's any chance we'll get an Oliver/GA and JH's Dinah/BC "love angle," you can listen to this segment starting at the 21:18 mark in the podcast)

I'm getting the feeling that 801 will start almost exactly like the S1 pilot started out - and play out almost exactly like that pilot, but with some character and plot variations. It'll be like an AU version of the Arrow pilot. I think it'll be more of a love letter to the KC/Laurel fans than we expect.

However, since KC is directing 803 (and started to prep it this week), I think Laurel's presence will be minimal or nonexistent in 802 and 803.

Edited July 26, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow - Juliana Harkavy Interview, Season 8
Published on Jul 23, 2019, by Showbiz Junkies

-- When asked if "the Canary will get to come out and play during Crisis," JH: "Oh, God, I hope so. I think so. And, uh, - but I'm trying not to keep, you know, get my expectations too high. But, uh, I hope so. Yeah. Yeah."

-- On where we'll see Dinah at the beginning of S8, JH: "So, the very start of the season is a bit of a departure. It's, uh - we're doing something a little different. Uh, and it's going to - how am I going to say this? I'll just say that. It's going to be a little bit different at the start of the season. It's something different. And, uh, unexpected. I'm very excited to see what people think. If people catch on to what's going on.... At the beginning of the season, she's also still the police captain. She's sort of still trying to figure out where to find her footing when the team dis - uh, falling apart in a sense. Yeah, but it's going to be a little bit of a twist on what we normally see."

-- JH: "I've only worked one day this season so far."

-- On what's on her Dinah bucket list, JH said that she's only gotten scripts for the first three episodes, so she doesn't know yet where Dinah ends up at the end of the series. But she hopes that Dinah finds "some kind of resolve," "some direction" and "some resolve." She wants Dinah to "land on her feet, 'this is who I am.'"

-- On how Oliver's absence affects Dinah, JH: "I think Dinah feels a sense of, you know, she has to step up now. I think she feels like, well, you know, who's left, and what can we do? And we need to sort of... Because the hierarchy of the team is important, um, and our leader is gone, so she also definitely - Dinah being Dinah - feels the need to sort of step up to that position. Not that she wants to be in charge, but who will? Because somebody needs to take care of the team."

Edited July 26, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

I didn't transcribe the rest of this MG interview because it was identical to what was transcribed in previously posted MG interview videos posted upthread...

Arrow SDCC 2019 Interview: EP Marc Guggenheim
Published on Jul 25, 2019, by DC TV Podcasts

-- On crafting Arrow's final season with COIE in mind, MG: "It was tricky, because, you know, we've got two different things that we're trying to accomplish. We're trying to accomplish the biggest crossover we've ever done, you know, adapting a seminal, beloved comics story. At the same time, we're trying to set up the endgame for Arrow. And, you know, those two things really had to be considered in tandem with each other. And I hope we've squared the circle. Um, I think we have. There was a lot of consideration given to, you know, what needs to be done in the Arrow series finale, what should be done in Crisis, how do we make it all work together. But, you know, it's been 8 years of us figuring out tricky things and I think we've kinda done it. I feel pretty good about it."

Edited July 26, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

The Fangirlish video of this SA interview was previously posted upthread...

‘ARROW’ SDCC INTERVIEW: STEPHEN AMELL TALKS FINAL SEASON, INFLUENCE OVER HOW OLIVER’S JOURNEY ENDS 
ALYSSA BARBIERI JULY 25, 2019
http://fangirlish.com/arrow-sdcc-interview-stephen-amell-talks-final-season-influence-over-how-olivers-story-wraps/ 

Quote

As for how Oliver Queen’s story eventually ends, Amell said that he had influence on how Oliver’s journey wraps. In particular he referenced the season 7 finale, where Oliver and Felicity shared an emotional goodbye as the Monitor swept him away to pay off his sacrifice for saving Barry and Kara in last year’s crossover.

Given that it was potentially the last time fans will see Oliver and Felicity together — and see Felicity — Amell made his voice heard when it came to her exit.

“The fact that it ended with Emily (Bett Rickards), a lot of that was my pitch,” Amell said. “I thought that we had to write that episode like we’re never going to see her character again. Jumping off from that, if we think we’re never going to see her character again, well, you better give her a good goodbye. You better wrap that up.”

And while the tears were definitely flowing during this emotional final moments, Amell reassured everyone that, despite their separation via the Monitor, they’re definitely in a good place.

“I thought it was good for the fans to realize that, somewhere out there, they’re good,” he said.

Edited July 26, 2019 by tv echo

[Chaser]

18 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Arrow - Juliana Harkavy Interview, Season 8
Published on Jul 23, 2019, by Showbiz Junkies

-- On where we'll see Dinah at the beginning of S8, JH: "So, the very start of the season is a bit of a departure. It's, uh - we're doing something a little different. Uh, and it's going to - how am I going to say this? I'll just say that. It's going to be a little bit different at the start of the season. It's something different. And, uh, unexpected. I'm very excited to see what people think. If people catch on to what's going on.... At the beginning of the season, she's also still the police captain. She's sort of still trying to figure out where to find her footing when the team dis - uh, falling apart in a sense. Yeah, but it's going to be a little bit of a twist on what we normally see."

The ‘catch on’ part makes me wonder if 8x01 plays out from the perspective of E-Whatever. A whole episode of AU Arrow till our Oliver jumps in at the end of episode. 

It would explain ‘Oliver’ not wearing his ring in the episode. 

Edited July 26, 2019 by Chaser

[tv echo]

Oh, come on, did someone not watch the end of 722? 😦 This article was in response to MG's tweet about Oliver wearing/not wearing his wedding ring (posted above in this thread)...

“Arrow”: Relax, “Olicity” Fans – Marc Guggenheim is NOT “Divorcing” Oliver & Felicity
Posted by Ray Flook July 25, 2019
https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/07/25/arrow-relax-olicity-fans-marc-guggenheim-is-not-divorcing-oliver-felicity/ 

Quote

With Arrow‘s run coming to an end with its now-filming season 8, there was a good amount of news and teases coming out of this year’s San Diego Comic-Con (SDCC – which you can check out here) – but with all of the changes taking place, there’s one change that Arrow and DC’s Legends of Tomorrow’s Marc Guggenheim wants to make clear is not happening: Oliver’s not losing his wedding ring.

Apparently, word circulated on the internet that Amell’s Oliver Queen was seen filming the season premiere sans wedding ring, as if to symbolize Oliver seeing his marriage to Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) as being over. Well, apparently fans aren’t having that – taking to Twitter to express some serious dissatisfaction with the decision.

Small problem? Guggenheim’s not a fan of Oliver losing the ring, either – and cautions against making assumptions about the rest of the season based on the first episode. Sometimes, storylines require certain things…
*  *  *
After thanking episode director James Bamford (and Katherine McNamara, who was shadowing) and giving special props to returning cast members Colin Donnell and Josh Segarra, [Stephen] Amell makes it a point of offering special thanks to the Set Dec. Department for “recreating some stuff” that fans haven’t seen in some time. The actor follows that teasing praise with some love for the Stunts team for being able to “make fights look like other fights.”
*  *  *
Hmmm… so what are we thinking? Pure flashback? Time travel? With the final season of Arrow spearheading into “Crisis,” we’re going with a multiverse/alternate reality deal. But it sure does make the mind ponder…

Edited July 26, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

That's kind of a lazy way of writing a show, isn't it? When they just take scenes from past episodes and recreate them with a twist - or use footage from past seasons in an episode? 

Usually, we'll see a long-running show do one episode that uses some past footage, either in a homage to the show or for some other plot device. However, I don't know if any show has ever spent an entire season doing this sort of thing.

Edited July 26, 2019 by tv echo

[Featherhat]

No, no no, you've got it wrong, it's not lazy, it's an homage. 😉 Probably supposed to be "clever". It does seem a quick way of getting nostalgic "ahh" moments like with 501 stuff but hopefully it will come off well. 

I hadn't even noticed Oliver wasn't wearing his wedding ring until @tv echo posted the tweets. I can't really think why he'd need to loose it unless he's impersonating himself from a different Earth or the past. But way to make a clickbait headline BC. 

[Guest]

If there's a reason he's not wearing his wedding ring for only 801, it sounds like Oliver's gonna impersonate that particular earth's Oliver? Maybe that's why it's supposedly like the Pilot and they're re-creating scenes. 

Ohhh I see what they're doing now. Not exactly groundbreaking or different but okay. 😂

[Primal Slayer]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

Arrow - Juliana Harkavy Interview, Season 8
Published on Jul 23, 2019, by Showbiz Junkies

-- JH: "I've only worked one day this season so far."

Explains why she's seemed a bit down. Spending 2 seasons working so much to 1 scene thus far probably is a downer for her.

[tv echo]

I just posted a summary of all SDCC spoilers (so far) in the Season 8 Spoiler Archive thread here...
https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/95659-season-8-spoiler-archive/?do=findComment&comment=5478450

Edited July 26, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Remember this 801 spoiler? ...

-- SA: "We actually didn't have to shoot a good chunk of the episode for the premiere because we just used footage from the pilot." (SDCC, Jul. 20, 2019: Jul. 21, 2019 Whedonopolis Videos video of SA interview, page 2 of Spoilers thread and page 6 of Spoiler Discussion Final thread)

801 opens with old footage of Oliver running toward the beach on Lian Yu and being rescued... 801 closes with Oliver saving Tommy's life in the Glades earthquake?

Edited July 26, 2019 by tv echo

[statsgirl]

I hope any old footage that they use doesn't show a close-up on anyone's face because other than DR and maybe ST, everyone looks older.

[apinknightmare]

I'm not sure how Oliver going back in the past would work. MG said that we'll be seeing "not the version of Tommy we know." Would they rewrite canon to show that he was actually involved in some of Malcolm's shady dealings? Are they rewriting canon for him to have a beard? How would Adrian come into play? In the trailer he's talking to someone who's been on an island for years and came back a vigilante - if that is Oliver, then it's 4 years too early. Maybe his first mission is pulling a Barry and sticking his dick in the timeline? 

Maybe it's another earth where events unfolded similarly? 

If Oliver isn't time traveling, then I'm gonna take issue with Stephen saying that Oliver reconciles and gets closure with 5 people he thought he wouldn't over the first 3 eps. Other earths' doppelgängers can't give you closure! They aren't the same people and this is the hill I will die on and I will yell about this forever!!!

[tv echo]

23 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

If Oliver isn't time traveling, then I'm gonna take issue with Stephen saying that Oliver reconciles and gets closure with 5 people he thought he wouldn't over the first 3 eps. Other earths' doppelgängers can't give you closure! They aren't the same people and this is the hill I will die on and I will yell about this forever!!!

SA also said: "Maybe they don't know it, but he knows it." 

So maybe Oliver gets to say stuff that he never got the chance to say before to certain people and that's why it's closure for him, even if they're aren't the same people he knew in his life? 

Or maybe it's a branch reality of his own life - oops, sorry, that's Marvel.

But yeah, I'm with you. It's not the same thing.

IIRC, E2 Oliver is supposed to be dead. So maybe our Oliver goes to Starling City on E2, pretending to be E2 Oliver? And then either fakes his own death or makes an excuse to leave when he has to go off again.

Edited July 26, 2019 by tv echo

[Guest]

I don't think Oliver is time travelling (at least not yet, they'll save that for meeting Mia and William at some point). I think he's probably visiting an earth where Oliver never came back from the island. If he's pretending to be that earth's Oliver, it would give them the opportunity to play out similar scenes from the Pilot and allow Oliver to have closure, even if it makes no sense because they're essentially different people. But Arrow has to Arrow somehow. 😂

Also pretending to be Oliver who finally comes back home after, what, 12 years (if this IS in present day on another earth) seems cruel because he's not back and he can't stay. IDK. It's a weird plot choice and I'm not sure what exactly it adds to any of the characters. Also I feel like they've already gone over callbacks to S1 SO many times, it seems a little redundant, IMO. Who knows?

[way2interested]

I don't necessarily agree that having interactions with alt-versions can't mean closure just because they aren't the real versions. The closure is for Oliver, not for the relationships between Oliver and the person, and all of the guests in 801 have died, so this would be the only way to do it. It's like how Oliver got to hug his parents one last time in 508 or got closure and moved on from Laurel's death in 510 (later redemption of BS aside). Yeah, they aren't really the person so it's not Oliver really getting the moment with that person, but it does give Oliver some chances to say or admit things that maybe he didn't even realize he wanted to to that person. Like, SA said that Oliver finally gets a chance to best Chase in 801 and it may not fully count since it isn't the Chase we know, but personality-wise he (so far) seems similar enough that "beating" him can give some closure from not really stopping Chase's plan from s5 (no one important may have died, but he did seriously injure Thea and kill William's mother, so Chase's plan didn't really get stopped). And then etc. for other characters depending on what they are doing.

[apinknightmare]

15 minutes ago, way2interested said:

The closure is for Oliver, not for the relationships between Oliver and the person, and all of the guests in 801 have died, so this would be the only way to do it.

Yes, I understand how it works. 

I still don't think that any measure of closure or comfort can be gained from saying something you want to say to the doppelgänger of a person you love. You still know it's not really them - you still know you didn't actually get the chance to say what you wanted to say to them. You can give comfort to them, because they wouldn't know the difference, but IMO that doesn't work the other way around. 

We'll have to agree to disagree. 

[way2interested]

28 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Yes, I understand how it works. 

I still don't think that any measure of closure or comfort can be gained from saying something you want to say to the doppelgänger of a person you love. You still know it's not really them - you still know you didn't actually get the chance to say what you wanted to say to them. You can give comfort to them, because they wouldn't know the difference, but IMO that doesn't work the other way around. 

Didn't mean to sound rude or anything, 

I agree in that don't necessarily think that comfort or closure would actually be gained, but that that's how the thought process was since Arrow's done this same thing before (albeit with hallucinations instead of alt-versions) since s2 with hallucination Tommy giving Oliver a pep talk.

34 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

We'll have to agree to disagree. 

Yeah, although some will definitely be dumb (anything with Malcolm), I still think there might be something nice in this, like Oliver getting to see Moira and understanding that feeling of wanting to do anything for his kids like Moira did and then likely telling that alt-Moira that he was able to be a father like she always wanted because he wanted to say it (which I get some people won't like, but idk I didn't hate 508 so I don't think I would hate this either, but yeah agree to disagree)

[apinknightmare]

20 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I agree in that don't necessarily think that comfort or closure would actually be gained, but that that's how the thought process was since Arrow's done this same thing before (albeit with hallucinations instead of alt-versions) since s2 with hallucination Tommy giving Oliver a pep talk.

Oh yeah, I totally get the thought process behind it since they've done it before - too many times IMO. And it's a nice idea, and I'm sure the scenes will be heartwarming because it will mean something to Oliver. My distaste for it is just part and parcel for how this show treats doppelgängers in general, like they're the same person spread throughout multiple universes instead of individuals living on different earths with different experiences that make them different people. 

[tv echo]

From video in this article...

-- SA: "It's not fun, not having Emily on set. Emily's my best friend on the set, um, my co-best friend. I spent the most time with her and with David. And, you know, I texted her as we were - when I was on the plane flying up to Vancouver for the final season. I said I was sad. It's tough not having her around. Um, but her presence is - and Mia's presence and William's presence - is felt via Oliver and what he's doing. He's doing what he's doing in pursuit of them."

Stephen Amell and ‘Arrow’ Cast Explain What the Set Is Like Without Emily Bett Rickards: She’s ‘My Best Friend’ 
By Erin Crabtree  July 26, 2019
https://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/stephen-amell-arrow-cast-on-missing-emily-bett-rickards-on-set/

Quote

As for whether viewers will see Felicity again before the series wraps, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles star seemed cautiously optimistic. “I think that we wrapped her character up pretty nicely, but honestly, that comes down to Emily and producers,” he noted. “I mean, she’s busy. She’s being awesome on Broadway and things of that nature.”

Edited July 27, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

From last night (Friday night)...

-- SA: "I'm a big believer that, uh, everything has it's uh, running time, so to speak. And I think that we've had our running time. You know, that's what I thought when I talked with, uh, with Greg Berlanti in Season 6. I felt like we had done our thing. I thought that ultimately, theoretically, Season 7 should have been the end of things." 

-- SA: "But to come back and do 10 episodes, especially with what Beth and Marc Guggenheim, who stepped back in over the past couple of, uh - couple of months for a variety of reasons. Um, what they've done with this final season is really cool. It's like nothing you guys have ever seen. Like, every episode that comes out, it's like, 'Wait a minute, what?' 'It's happening what?' 'And where?' 'And how?' Okay, That's cool. Let's do it."

-- SA: "As I was saying at Comic-Con... my character's had the chance over the past - or over the first three episodes, I reconcile with, like, five different characters."

-- SA: "I missed having this eye makeup. Um, I don't think it's a spoiler to say that Oliver has his mask back on in Season 8. And, uh, my reasoning for having the mask back on was, I just like it. The iconography of the character. Having the hood up. Uh, the suit that we did this year, uh, which I think was really, really beautifully done, uh, is a callback to the first season. Um, bow is - I can't - the bow's a callback to the first season. And, um, the hood. We're back to the canvas hood. Yao Fei's hood. It means a lot to me. It also fits better than any other hood. I had it for the first three years and then I begged them for the next 40 to give it back to me and they finally did it."

-- SA: "Everything to do with Season 8 of Arrow, everything that we're doing right now, certainly through episode 3, and the ending of episode 3 - good golly, Miss Molly - it's mental. I've freaked out and texted a bunch of people once I read it, which is always a good sign when you're this far into stuff. The ending of episode 3 is great. But every single episode thus far in Season 8, um, is leading to Crisis On Infinite Earths. And I know that some of the other shows are doing this. And I know that, um, you know, we've - we've brought in, uh, an actor to, um, I think, help facilitate bringing all the shows together, if that makes sense.

-- SA (reading fan comment): "'I love you and, of course, Arrow, but I really wish that Oliver and Felicity end the show together.'" SA: "Me too."

Edited July 28, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Antonio Negret is the 802 director - so I don't know why he and KC are listed together...

Edited July 27, 2019 by tv echo

[Featherhat]

Maybe he's over seeing her, they do that for 1st time actor directors don't they?

Every time one of the cast talks about freaking out over an episode, I roll my eyes, even if it legitimately is awesome/genuine whoa when it airs. 

13 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

My distaste for it is just part and parcel for how this show treats doppelgängers in general, like they're the same person spread throughout multiple universes instead of individuals living on different earths with different experiences that make them different people. 

I agree. They also do it piecemeal as well, with some characters acting like there's little to no connection between doppelgangers and some can't see the difference, and it's not from a character POV, which would be interesting, it's as and when the plot demands as always. If I were E1 LL I'd be mighty pissed that so many of my friends and family slotted in someone so easily into my life.

Re closure well if it's doppels it will forever be a bit hollow for me but that doesn't mean the story can't be good on it's own. They explored this over in LOT with Snart's doppelganger Leo eventually realising he can't get closure for his Micky with Mick either which in itself was a form of closure, and he was his own character so we'll see.

I think by closure they possibly just mean "it's a cool story and we get to see the actor again".

Until we get pap pics or reports of EBR on set I'm just going to assume she's not coming back and that they will write around her for the "off together somewhere" because these non answer maybes and "we're going to call her soon to chat" is just going to do my head in otherwise. 

[tv echo]

In talking about 801, Bam specifically referenced not just Season 1's pilot and finale, but also episode 1x21...

Quote

-- James Bamford: "Uh, the premiere, 801, is... has been like shooting the pilot all over again, but trying to outdo it, and the finale episode from Season 1 and... 121 from Season 1, all rolled up into one episode." (SDCC, Jul. 20, 2019: Jul. 23, 2019 Showbiz Junkies video of James Bamford interview, page 2 of Spoilers thread and page 7 of Spoiler Discussion Final thread)

I remember 101 and 123, but I had to check back about 121. That episode was "The Undertaking." A lot happened, but here are the highlights (per this EW recap)...

• Felicity tried to get Oliver to patch things up with Diggle, who quit the team after Oliver chose to help Laurel instead of helping Diggle get Floyd Lawton.
• Laurel was recovering from Tommy's decision to break up with her at the club, and Oliver encouraged her to talk to Tommy.
• Laurel and Felicity met for the first time, when Felicity interrupted Laurel's conversation with Oliver to give him the results of her investigation.
• Felicity paid Diggle a house call and tried to get him to talk to Oliver.
• Laurel tried to talk to Tommy, who told her that Oliver was still in love with her.
• Felicity went undercover as "Megan" on her first field mission into an underground casino owned by Dominic Alonzo, but had to be rescued by Oliver, and they were told by Alonzo that Walter was dead. 
• Oliver told Moira and Thea that Walter was dead.
• Moira confronted Malcolm about Walter's death, and Malcolm showed her footage showing Walter was still alive.
• Oliver was listening in on Moira and Malcolm via a trick arrow, so he learned of his mother and Malcolm's involvement.
• Oliver rescued Walter.
• At the hospital visiting Walter, Oliver introduced Felicity to Moira and Thea as his friend.
• Laurel told Oliver that Tommy told her about Oliver's real feelings for her, and Oliver admitted that he still loved her.
• Oliver apologized to Diggle and asked for his help to stop the Undertaking.
• Flashbacks: Malcolm learned of a new Unidac project that could help him level the Glades and start fresh. Robert confessed Malcolm's scheme to Moira. Robert talked to Chen about stopping Malcolm's plan by buying up the rest of the property in the Glades so that Malcolm wouldn't be able to rebuild it after it's destroyed, thereby, stopping him from going through with the plan in the first place. Laurel was prepping to take the LSATs, and she and Oliver talked about moving in together. Robert and Oliver prepared to leave on The Queen's Gambit. Laurel unexpectedly showed up at the dock to say good-bye to Oliver, who had to call Sara to stop her from showing up at the same time. Oliver lied to Laurel by saying he was fine about moving in together. Chen double-crossed Robert by planting a bomb on the ship, which was timed to go off during a storm. Malcolm noted that it would look like an act of God.

Obviously they won't be able to recreate or pay tribute to any Felicity or Olicity scenes from 121, but I wonder which scenes they'll choose to focus on in 801.

Edited July 27, 2019 by tv echo

[Trisha]

19 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

I’m not sure how Oliver going back in the past would work. MG said that we'll be seeing "not the version of Tommy we know." Would they rewrite canon to show that he was actually involved in some of Malcolm's shady dealings? Are they rewriting canon for him to have a beard? How would Adrian come into play? In the trailer he's talking to someone who's been on an island for years and came back a vigilante - if that is Oliver, then it's 4 years too early. Maybe his first mission is pulling a Barry and sticking his dick in the timeline? 

 Maybe it's another earth where events unfolded similarly?

I don’t think it’s in the past either. In the trailer when Adrian says something like “you were stuck on an island and became a vigilante? Sounds weird but ok,” I assumed that was Oliver and him trading stories about how they each became the Green Arrow on their own worlds. Though if it is another earth where events unfolded similarly, I don’t get why the events on that earth seem to be happening 12 years after they happened on ours.

I’m also really wondering how much time they are going to devote to Dinah and Rene? RG seemed to indicate he’s not shooting future stuff, so the show has to deal with Oliver (and presumably Dig) world/time hopping, the kids in the future, and then what’s going on with Dinah, Rene and I guess Laurel in present-day Star City. That’s a lot to juggle. 

[tv echo]

Arrow Series Finale Will Be A "Super Happy Ending," Stephen Amell Promises
By Chris E. Hayner   July 26, 2019
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/arrow-series-finale-will-be-a-super-happy-ending-s/1100-6468716/ 

Quote

With Arrow coming to an end after its upcoming season, many fans are wondering just how devastating the series finale will be. After all, it's been made clear that Oliver Queen (Stephen Amell) likely won't make it out of the upcoming Crisis on Infinite Earths crossover alive.

Be that as it may, Amell doesn't think fans will be sad when the final episode concludes. "It' a super happy ending," he told GameSpot at San Diego Comic-Con. "I think it's going to be a happy ending."

Meanwhile, executive producer Marc Guggenheim hopes fans will appreciate the work they'd put into crafting a proper ending for the series. "We always go into these things with the best of intentions... We're trying so had to just entertain everybody and honor all of the things the fans want," he said. "We hope that everyone appreciates it on its own terms, the way we like to do things."

As for how those involved in the show feel about wrapping it up, Amell admits that the fact that Arrow has launched an entire superhero universe on TV is a difficult feeling to parse. "It's very, very difficult for me to have perspective on something I'm so deeply involved in. But it's starting to crystallize just a little bit with all of the lovely things people have been saying this weekend about not just our show but the universe we've built," he explained. "If you're a fan of comic books and you pop on Netflix and you find Arrow, then you watch the first season and all of a sudden in Season 2 you see The Flash introduced, you can spend your entire summer vacation watching the content we've created. That's really cool."

So while it'll be months before we find out exactly how Arrow will end, those involved in the show seem confident that they've come up with a conclusion worthy of the Green Arrow. That said, if the finale ends with Oliver's death, which appears to be a foregone conclusion at this point, there's going to be some sadness mixed in with that "super happy ending" Amell promised.

Edited July 27, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow's Colin Donnell Talks 'Very Different' Season 8 Return
By Lindsay MacDonald | Jul 27, 2019
https://www.tvguide.com/news/arrow-season-8-colin-donnell-tommy-returns/ 

Quote

"It's been a gift to be able to come back over the years and over the seasons and be a continued part of the family as it's grown into what it is now," Donnell recently told TV Guide at the Television Association Critics Association summer press tour. "It's cool to see what our show was and to see how it's expanded into the whole Arrowverse that exists now. I'm really proud of it and happy to be back for this last season in a very different way. You know, to sort of cap off a whole eight years of our lives. It was cool."
*  *  *
Tommy has appeared in both flashbacks and as hallucinations since he was crushed under the weight of a collapsing building, but fans have never had any real hope that he'd get the kind of resurrection other deceased characters have enjoyed. Executive producer Marc Guggenheim told Entertainment Weekly that Donnell is "not coming back as the Tommy we know," which confirms our suspicions that something strange is definitely in store for him.

Donnell is staying completely mum about how Tommy returns, but he did reaffirm Stephen Amell's take on the matter. "I think Stephen said it best at Comic-Con," Donnell said, "I think fans are going to see Tommy in a way that they've maybe wanted for a while."

Edited July 27, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

BB Exclusive: Arrow Creator, Marc Guggenheim Talks the Show's Final Season
Published on Jul 27, 2019, by Beautiful Ballad

-- MG: "We started planning the crossover earlier than we ever have because we know it's five hours. It's, you know, based on the most, you know, seminal, important, I think, comic book story. Um, you know, it requires a lot of planning. It requires a lot of care. And, you know, as always, you know, we approach it from the standpoint of 'don't screw it up.' ... We assembled some amazing writers... showrunners... We worked and crafted, you know, I think, a very, you know -a really cool story that, you know, honors, not just the Arrowverse, but honors the fact that it's got to be more than just the Arroweverse. It has to touch other corners of the DC universe and, um, I'm really excited. It's probably the most important thing I've ever worked on... So, the pressure is enormous."

-- On how they broke down Arrow's 10-episode season around the COIE crossover and how they decided where to put what pieces of story, MG: "We started talking a lot about, um, it being like a short order, you know, like a streaming show, you know, eight... episodes. And we knew where the crossover landed and we knew where the finale landed, obviously. And it was just a matter of, okay, this is the landscape we have to work with. What do we want to do? What do we want to accomplish in that space? And... it's always been just the most amazing staff and everyone just rolls their sleeves up and gets it done."

-- On how they go about selecting which old characters to bring back for this final season (like Prometheus), MG: "That's a good question. It's tough because, you know, look, at the end of the day - and twitter doesn't want to hear about this and the audience doesn't want to hear about this - but, like, you have a certain amount of money, you know, um, and you've got actors who are available and some who are not available and, you know, some who are working on other projects. It's just realities that you have to deal with. Um, and you go into it, like, with your wish list and then reality intrudes and cuts down that wish list. Um, but, you know, I think, you know, we love Jason, we - we love the character of Prometheus. Um, you're seeing a different version of Prometheus than you've seen before, I will say, in the series premiere. But it's, uh - I said Jason, I meant Josh. Um, it's been a long comic con, a long comic con... We're all exhausted. We're all exhausted. And, um, we're barely - we're lucky we can get the name of the show correct at this point... Josh is amazing. We've always loved him. And, uh, he was always on our short list when we said, we want to revisit certain moments and certain characters, um, so we were just lucky we were able to get him, because he's a talented guy and he's busy and, you know, there were other shows out there."

-- On any other old characters that might return in this final season, MG: "MG: "I can tell you that LaMonica Garrett is going to reprise his role as the Monitor in the crossover, but he's also going to play the Anti-Monitor as well. Um, and that's the Big Bad of the crossover... And you're going to see, like, a lot of familiar faces. Like, really the goal of Season 8 is... We're looking forward, but we're really looking backwards to look forwards. Um, and we're sort of acknowledging all the greatest stakes and all the key moments of the show,* and that includes a lot of, you know, key characters and familiar faces. Um, again, we're always working with the limitations of what we have with reality. But, uh, I'm really excited... The people that are coming back, you know, they're family. So it's wonderful to, you know, see them again."

(* Again, how they can do this without EBR/Felicity is a mystery to me, since she was part of most, if not almost all, of these key moments in the series. I understand his limitations due to actor unavailability. But it just makes the producer/cast descriptions of S8 as Arrow's greatest hits and key moments of the series just incorrect and misleading. If the unavailability of a core character like Felicity made this kind of season impossible to do, then they should've come up with another thematic premise for S8.)

-- On whether the shortened schedule made them script out further than they normally would do, MG: "I think, in a perfect world, we would've scripted out further than we usually would. It's just harder to do, given the timeline that we're operating with. Um, I would say, everything has been broken out in advance. We know what each episode is. Um, and that's more unusual than not. Usually, it's more like, we know the general tent poles of the season, we know like, this is episode 6, this is episode 13, this is episode 21. Um, this was more like, we know what 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, et cetera."

Edited July 27, 2019 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

Quote

every single episode thus far in Season 8, um, is leading to Crisis On Infinite Earths.

Which is exactly what we thought would happen with this season.  Why did the show runners even bother to try to deny this season is in service to COiE?

[tv echo]

ScreenRant's interview with LMG...

LaMonica Garrett Interview: San Diego Comic-Con 2019
Published on Jul 25, 2019, by SR Trailers and Interviews

-- On the last scene of Arrow S7 where the Monitor took Felicity off somewhere, when asked where they went,  LMG: "Hey, man, who knows? The Monitor, he's got - you know, he's got the whole cosmos as his playground. They could be anywhere."

-- When he auditioned for the Monitor, LMG thought that he was reading for Val Zod, Black Superman, because the breakdown described a powerful Kryptonian and because of the way the dialogue was written. He didn't know he was the Monitor until almost when he was flying out to Vancouver to start being fitted for the outfit. When he found out, he was like, "Oh, wow. Crisis." This is the first time that the Monitor has been depicted in live action. There were a couple of DC reps who "got a little teary... seeing the Monitor come off the page."

-- LMG: "The Monitor, he's just - he's hard to peg because he's morally ambiguous. You don't really know what his - his plan is, but he's doing bad things for the greater good for everyone. But his ways of good and bad aren't your ways... He doesn't look at the world like that. He's been around for billions of years, so it's like, you know, what we're used to, our ethics, our values, down here on Earth, he's evolved past that. So, he'll do some stuff for the greater good, in hindsight, you'll be able to see, oh, like, he was a good guy."

-- LMG: "It's hard to adapt everything from the comic book to, you know, to screen, but... they're doing a bang-up job. They're doing a real good job. So that trick is yet to be seen, but if they do that, that would be ridiculously awesome."

-- LMG: "I go back Monday morning, and I'm working Tuesday."

-- LMG: "It's rapid fire... Just like last season, where he just - the Monitor kinda bounces around. So where I end up, you might not know. Sometimes I'll just - I'll be a couple episodes here, one over here - I just - you know, it's a fun role to play too. Get to hang out with all the different casts."

-- On which Arrowverse show's set did he enjoy working on the most, LMG: "I liked them all. All of them had their different, uh - you know, from where I'm staying in Vancouver downtown, Flash and Arrow are right close, so those, you know, it's easier to get to work. And Supergirl is a little further out. And, um - but yeah, Legends. It's fun to work on all of them. You know, meeting the different casts, different makeup departments, hair and, you know, wardrobe. It's like feeling all the different energies. You could tell Arrow's been around for so long, they're like the big brother on the block. And just - it starts from there and kinda, you know, pushes out."

-- On Arrow's last season and Oliver's death being prophesized by the Monitor, LMG: "He might escape, you know. Who knows? Comic books."

-- On whether we'll see the Monitor after the crossover is over, LMG: "I hope so. But, you know, if - they're doing it pretty close to the comic books. In the comic books, you know, the Monitor's seen better days. But, you know, we might - you know, they might have a different variation, so it's fun. When I get the scripts, they're like getting new issues of comic books. So I don't read, like, just, you know, what am I doing in this - I read it as a fan first because I grew up with comic books... I read it once as a fan and then I go back and study it like, alright, what do I need to know? What's going on? What's going to happen if I don't get what I - you know, just whatever I do to, you know, figure it out."

Edited July 27, 2019 by tv echo

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

When I get the scripts, they're like getting new issues of comic books. So I don't read, like, just, you know, what am I doing in this - I read it as a fan first because I grew up with comic books... I read it once as a fan and then I go back and study it like, alright, what do I need to know? What's going on? What's going to happen if I don't get what I - you know, just whatever I do to, you know, figure it out."

He just won my heart with that.

[kes0704]

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Which is exactly what we thought would happen with this season.  Why did the show runners even bother to try to deny this season is in service to COiE?

It was slightly annoying that they were trying to sell the season as something other than what it is. Yes, there is a flash forward storyline but at least 8 episodes of the season will support the set up and execution of the crossover.

The final two episodes are a toss up. I’m assuming that they’ll wrap up the impacts of the crossover on Star City and close out Arrow.

[tv echo]

This same DR interview was recorded in the Nerds and Beyond video that was previously posted upthread...

‘ARROW’ SDCC INTERVIEW: DAVID RAMSEY TEASES ANSWERS TO THESE QUESTIONS IN SEASON 8 
ALYSSA BARBIERI JULY 26, 2019
http://fangirlish.com/arrow-sdcc-interview-david-ramsey-teases-answers-to-these-questions-in-season-8/ 

Quote

“For (Diggle), there are things that will probably be answered,” Ramsey said. “His relationship with Lyla — Lyla plays a pivotal role this season — she’s the leader of ARGUS, so we have to address that. His two sons in the future, where is Diggle, and what is going on with his children. I think that’s important. Is he or isn’t he Green Lantern, I think that’s important.”

Edited July 28, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Similar but not identical to what's DR said in other SDCC interviews...

Arrow's David Ramsey Addresses John Diggle's Green Lantern Ties In Season 8
Nick Venable   July 25, 2019
https://www.cinemablend.com/television/2477105/arrows-david-ramsey-addresses-john-diggles-green-lantern-ties-in-season-8

Quote

While we likely won't be hearing Arrow showrunner Beth Schwartz offer up any full-length confessionals about Green Lantern-related reveals, series star David Ramsey did drop a meaningful hint to CinemaBlend and a handful of other press outlets while at San Diego Comic-Con. When Ramsey was asked if fans will get to see more from Diggle as a father in Season 8, here's how the actor answered:

"Yes. And Diggle's relationship with his own father as well. There will be loose ends tied up. The relationship between he and his sons, I think we're going to find out about. There's a lot in ten episodes we'll be finding out. And Lyla is a pivotal piece in these upcoming ten episodes. And then ultimately what happens with the Green Lantern mythos. I think all those are going to be answered in ten episodes."

Edited July 29, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Marc Guggenheim "Arrow" Interview at Comic-Con
Published on Jul 28, 2019, by Hollywood News Source

-- On what he tell them about the legacy of Arrow after it ends, MG: "I can't, I can't. I'll tell you why. It's not up to me. Um, I would love it. Everyone who works with me knows that I'm a control freak, and I would - I'd love to be able to dictate it, but - I don't know. Um, I don't know what the audience is going to say. You know, one thing, you know, that I was thinking about is, there's the short-term, you know, legacy, and there's the long-term legacy. There's the short-term, you know, feeling people have about a show. And there's the long-term after several years have passed. Um, you know, my hope is that people will remember the show fondly, but it's out of my control. And, you know, we've always approached it from the standpoint of, how do we- how do we do the best show possible? You know - and I'm not saying we've always succeeded, but the work ethic and the passion and the dedication have always been there. Um, my hope is that, at the end of it, you'll have eight seasons of television that, at the very least, are not terrible. I'm going for not terrible."

-- On how a lot of people felt that Arrow could've ended at the end of Season 7, even though there is more story to tell, MG: "Um, you know, it's funny, I think we knew not long before the -  not long, but like certainly during Season 7, we knew that - we knew when the end was going to come. Um, I think, we discussed a lot, like, well, we know Emily is leaving at the end of Season 7. Do we end there? Do we keep going? Can we keep going? And we did feel like there was - there was more story to tell, um, as difficult as it is to do it without Emily. It's really, really hard. For the longest time, I've been saying, like, you can't do the show without Emily Rickards. Um, and I think, if the show - if the conversations had been, 'we'll do 22 episodes without Emily,' I would've said, 'you can't do that.' Um, 10 episodes, when one episode is the series [sic] premiere, another episode's the crossover, another episode's the series finale, suddenly you're down to 7 episodes, you can start having those conversations in a way that feels a little more realistic."

-- On whether we could see EBR return, MG: "Look, I would love for it to happen. Um, it's - it's up to - it's up to Emily. Um, it's up to time, it's up to availability. Of course, she's more than welcome back. Obviously. We desperately want her back. But at the same time, I'll be honest, I don't want to put pressure on her, you know? I want her to make the decision that's right for her. Um, you know, but, you know, we're going to be darkening her doorstep, um, and we'll see."

Edited July 29, 2019 by tv echo

[Featherhat]

Hmm, well I guess that could still go either way then, especially since she sounded done in her last interview and it seems MG kind of thinks she's done with the "no pressure", but nothing really new there. Just wait and see and hope they can go with the stepping through the portal ending for them if she doesn't come back. 

Edited July 29, 2019 by Featherhat

[Trisha]

4 hours ago, tv echo said:

-- On how a lot of people felt that Arrow could've ended at the end of Season 7, even though there is more story to tell, MG: "Um, you know, it's funny, I think we knew not long before the -  not long, but like certainly during Season 7, we knew that - we knew when the end was going to come. Um, I think, we discussed a lot, like, well, we know Emily is leaving at the end of Season 7. Do we end there? Do we keep going? Can we keep going? And we did feel like there was - there was more story to tell, um, as difficult as it is to do it without Emily. It's really, really hard. For the longest time, I've been saying, like, you can't do the show without Emily Rickards. Um, and I think, if the show - if the conversations had been, 'we'll do 22 episodes without Emily,' I would've said, 'you can't do that.' Um, 10 episodes, when one episode is the series premiere, another episode's the crossover, another episode's the series finale, suddenly you're down to 7 episodes, you can start having those conversations in a way that feels a little more realistic."

God, I’d still love to know the timing. The general assumption had been that everyone assumed they were done in S7, and by the time the network convinced SA to come back for another 10, EBR had already signed on to her play. But he’s making it sound like only she was confirmed as a no go for S7.