S05.E11: Chapter Ninety-Two

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

With Jorge officially moved into Alba's house with his stuff, it quickly has changed the dynamic, making Jane uncomfortable. Rafael and Jane work on their co-parenting of Mateo now that they have a potential way to help Mateo. Rogelio has a new set of unexpected problems arise on set with River . Meanwhile, Xo is nervous about her last PET scan and what the results could show.

Promo:

Original air date: 6/5/19

[blugirlami21]

Interesting episode. Not really sure how I feel about it to be honest.

I kind of dislike Jorge now. I was ambivalent before but his attitude really bothered me. On the one hand this seems to be the kind of relationship Alba wants and I applaud her for standing up to Jane and asserting that, but it still rubs me the wrong way to suddenly see her in such an antiquated relationship.

The River storyline came completely out of left field and it makes me sad because I actually like River. I'm glad Xo and Ro got their groove back but I wish it wasn't at River's expense.

I'm sad when Petra's sad but I love how much closer it has brought her and Jane. Their relationship makes me so happy.

Mateo was Mateo I suppose. I kind of didn't understand why they thought such a drastic change would work with a kid like Mateo? He was having meltdowns long before his ADHD diagnosis and he was allowed to have cake then.

I'm happy that Rafael and Jane were mostly drama free this week. I think him starting to date again was kind of weird. I know he said that he couldn't trust Jane but I never thought that meant that they would never try again. Just seemed off that they wouldn't at least talk about it.

Jane is finally going to get her own place seemingly because she is also starting to move on from the idea of a hea with Rafael. Maybe this will be the thing to bring them back together?

Edited June 6, 2019 by blugirlami21

[truebluesmoky]

If Jane has confronted Jorge about things that were truly between him and Alba, like her cooking all his meals and cleaning up after him, I would understand Alba’s anger. But Jane specifically mentioned ways that Jorge could help with the Mateo situation. I didn’t think she was out of line. There was a weird disconnect in that storyline for me.

[tennisgurl]

I dont think that Jane was in the wrong for what she said to Jorge or how she said it. She didnt say anything about his relationship with Alba, just a few things about making things easier with Mateo, none of which seemed to be unreasonable things to ask for. Like, oh no, you have to take your plate to the sink and not watch soccer for about an hour. Jane's tendency to butt into stuff is often annoying, but I was on her side this time, and I dont really get why Alba went off on her like that. Either Alba was just being super sensitive about her new relationship, or Jorge exaggerated what Jane said or how she said it. I would buy either one. She did cross a line when she was telling Alba how to love her life and how her relationship "should" be, but before that I thought she had every right to bring up how he could help with Mateo and set a better example for him. 

[Irlandesa]

I think Jane was wrong.  I get her. I've lived in houses owned by others and had outside forces come in and disrupt the co-habitating relationship I have with the homeowner.  But ultimately, it's up to the homeowner to decide how the house is used.  Jane's not a minor without options.  She's a 30 year old with a job, a rich friend obsessed with her and rich parents with a big house.  She's family but she's also a guest at the benevolence of her grandmother.

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

I thought she had every right to bring up how he could help with Mateo and set a better example for him. 

But Jane's notion of "a good example" flew in the face in the relationship Jorge and Alba have established that makes them happy. It's not like he expected Jane to pick up Alba's slack when she was gone. For Jane, it's about more than the plate and it wouldn't have stopped there because regardless of how happy Jorge and Alba were, the dynamic bothered her.

Society is full of people embracing power dynamics or gender roles that can be harmful on a broader scale.  That's the society Mateo lives in. Policing the behavior of others isn't going to teach Mateo how to live in it and commit to equality even when faced with behavior or notions that would likely privilege him.

I also think asking Jorge to not watch TV when Mateo is awake is a big ask.

She should have gone to Alba will all of these requests, especially so early in the living arrangement. 

For the record, I also think Jorge was wrong to ask some of the things he did, like where to park her car. 

3 hours ago, blugirlami21 said:

I kind of dislike Jorge now. I was ambivalent before but his attitude really bothered me

Jorge is usually so solicitous so the way he was in this episode felt like something that has been plaguing the season.  "We need Jane to learn/do/feel this so we're going to get her there by making other characters less dimensional." 

3 hours ago, blugirlami21 said:

The River storyline came completely out of left field and it makes me sad because I actually like River. I'm glad Xo and Ro got their groove back but I wish it wasn't at River's expense.

I hated this twist. I was so hoping that, after the first kiss, she said "psych."  Or that the explanation about River being method and getting carried away were the truth.  I've been enjoying the River character and the fact that she didn't love Rogelio.  I like that they built something professional together.  Now I think the only woman not to want Rogelio sexually is the head writer.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Irlandesa

[nilyank]

19 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

For the record, I also think Jorge was wrong to ask some of the things he did, like where to park her car. 

I didn't mind that because he wasn't asking foe himself but for Alba. Why should Jane get the more convenient parking spot that her older grandmother whose home that she is living in.

And I think that Alba was angrier with Jane because does know how Jane thinks. I thought it was telling when Alba pointed out that Jane was put out that Alba was catering to Jorge because he was a man but had no problem when when Alba had done the same for Jane and Xo. And the fact that the Alba was the only one to prepare all the meals in Jane's time is just not nice or considerate.

Edited June 7, 2019 by nilyank

[cardigirl]

I liked this episode, mostly for the interactions between Jane and Petra.

When Jane asked Petra if she had never had her heart broken before, I was a little disappointed in Petra's answer.  After all, she went through a miscarriage with Rafael, an event that figured significantly in her marriage to him.  But that storyline doesn't serve the current storyline I guess. 

I, too, am disappointed at the twist in the story for River.  I enjoyed her so much last season and was hoping for more comedy with that character this season.  I don't really want her to go dark and evil. 

I felt really bad for Mateo. How exhausting to always be running, not eating fun foods, and listening to Mom's rules constantly.  I hope, if they try medication, that it helps him.  When Rafael said he wanted them to be able to enjoy their son, I really liked him.  Finally.  Ha ha!

I'm glad they are taking their time bringing the "endgame" together. Maybe the "endgame" has changed?  *laughs hysterically*

[tennisgurl]

3 hours ago, cardigirl said:

I felt really bad for Mateo. How exhausting to always be running, not eating fun foods, and listening to Mom's rules constantly.  I hope, if they try medication, that it helps him. 

I mean, there have to be easier ways to incorporate a healthy diet and exercise into his life. Find some health foods that are actually tasty? Show him some dance videos or some other exercise that is more play focused instead of just running? No wonder he was so miserable, having to just run around and eat gross food really does sound awful!

[khyber]

I'm glad that the first set of "fixes" didn't work for Mateo.  Its nice to show a difficult kid in a series.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

It's also tough to make such abrupt changes. Maybe starting with ”let’s run one block and whoever gets to that corner first gets [insert small decision as a prize]!” would have worked better than running all the way to school every morning. Or maybe they could have had him do soccer drills aka run back and forth with a ball before school to achieve the same effect. 

Similarly, they could have reduced his sugar without cutting it out completely. But making all of these huge changes at once was a lot for him to deal with, especially since they were taking away things he liked (sugar) and adding things he didn't like (running to school).

[camom]

I agree that it makes sense to try other things for Mateo before using medication, but they made many changes all at once.  It would make anyone cranky.  It might have been more successful if they had made changes to his diet, routine, etc. gradually.  But that's real life, not a telenova.

I'm with those who don't like the change in River.  So unnecessary.

[nasir jones]

Of the abrupt changes, the Jorge ratting to Alba plot was more bothersome than the River suddenly loves Rogelio IMO.  I'm not even certain what Jane had to apologize for since her suggestions to Jorge totally centered around helping Alba's great-grandson.  That should take precedence over which room/when he watches television several nights a week.  Perhaps it was a bit of character assassination, but Jorge didn't come off looking too good.

I'm completely and totally in love with Jane/Petra and I actually like friendly co-parenting Rafael/Jane now.

[Simba122504]

Jorge doesn't have to turn off the television because Jane cannot control her own fucking child. Tell him to go to bed. Jane slept over at Petra's and she [Jane] wouldn't dare to tell Petra when to turn off her television. Jane wouldn't tell her parents what time to turn something off in their home. Why can't she discipline her child? Why is this such a problem with her? Alba pays the bills and Jorge will now pay the bills too. Jane was just mad that her grandmother's husband moved in and her grandmother is now married again with a husband. Something Jane never witnessed because her grandfather died before she was born. Jane is the last person who should question someone's independence. She has never lived on her own as a single woman. She only moves out when she has a man to move with. If you want the television off at a certain time, then get your own place. She even said her book would now end with her living with her grandmother because she may not get the guy. Petra called her out on that. River's crush came out of nowhere. That's something that should have been built up in S4 and S5A. Mateo needs medication and therapy. Also, let the kid be a kid. Rafael was right. 

Edited June 7, 2019 by Simba122504
typo

[natyxg]

I think I've figured out why this season has been so bad (imo). It's because they've gone crazy with the usage of OTT telenovela plots/tropes that they're just forcing in there, even when they make no sense. So, that's why Jane's husband comes back from the dead even though it wasn't needed at all. That's why Rafael acted like an asshole during that and broke up with her and now he's dating, because it's the usual last stretch of the telenovela bump that's supposed to make us fear that they won't get together in the end. That's why Rose does... everything that Rose does, while laughing like an evil maniac.

And then in this episode it was Rivers who fell victim to this crap... and Xo as well, I would say. Calling another woman a whore and having an unsavoury catfight over a man might be a very telenovela thing, but I would have expected Xo to be a lot more mature now than she was when the show started. And I LIKED that Rivers had turned out to be a generally decent person, so this villain turn bothers me a lot.

I also disliked Alba's plot with Jorge. I guess it's part of the choice feminism that has gotten popular, so now anything that a woman does can't be criticized because she decided to do it. Now, it's a free country, and if Alba wants to have a 50s marriage with Jorge that's her right, but don't try to sell her to me as this STRONG INDEPENDENT WOMAN doing STRONG INDEPENDENT WOMAN things. I see nothing worth applauding in her being Jorge's servant while he puts up his feet and watches TV. And of course, he wants to be the man of the house, but without doing the most traditional "man of the house thing"... being the sole breadwinner. So Alma now has a job outside the house and a job at home, while he works outside the house then gets a maid (and sex). Perfect woman indeed... for him. Perfect arrangement. I was also very irked by Jorge being nice to Jane's face and then being all offended with Alba. I was even more irked by Alba getting so angry at Jane for having a couple of perfectly reasonable requests. And if they didn't find them reasonable, then talk about them, don't be all like that. Really, both Alba and Jorge were very ruined for me in this episode.

I felt bad for Mateo in this episode. I felt like they went at the whole thing all wrong. Specially with the running to school thing, what a ridiculous idea, wtf. If you want the kid to burn off energy before school, play with him and do something fun, not this lame run business.

Petra has really been the saving grace this season, by herself as well as her relationship with Jane. I really liked the little bit with the ex assistant, too. I love who Petra has become and, as a result, I really like all her relationships, even the one with Rafael. I never could have expected that Petra would become the best thing about this show.

Edited June 7, 2019 by natyxg

[natyxg]

20 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I dont think that Jane was in the wrong for what she said to Jorge or how she said it. She didnt say anything about his relationship with Alba, just a few things about making things easier with Mateo, none of which seemed to be unreasonable things to ask for. Like, oh no, you have to take your plate to the sink and not watch soccer for about an hour. Jane's tendency to butt into stuff is often annoying, but I was on her side this time, and I dont really get why Alba went off on her like that. Either Alba was just being super sensitive about her new relationship, or Jorge exaggerated what Jane said or how she said it. I would buy either one. She did cross a line when she was telling Alba how to love her life and how her relationship "should" be, but before that I thought she had every right to bring up how he could help with Mateo and set a better example for him. 

Alba came across as the type of woman who will get into a relationship and then put her man before everyone, even her children (or grandchild this time). She took Jorge's side without even listening to what Jane had to say. I found it very off putting.

[miasth]

Jane was wrong imposing her own views on Alba's, but I had a lot of problems Alba/Jorge.

I try to keep an open mind re women who has attitude Alba has.  However, I feel there is a fine line and I think Alba crossed into losing herself territory as Jane said.  We saw how many things Jane salvaged from being thrown out so I question how much of Alba remained in the house.  It seemed like she tossed the majority of her stuff out in favor of Jorge's.  

When Jane spoke to Jorge he should not have pretended like he agreed then went to Alba. He should have told Jane he did not agree and if he was not comfortable discussing it with her told her she needs to talk to her grandmother.  Also I felt Alba's reaction was a bit extreme for what Jane said Jorge. Unless as I saw suggested elsewhere Alba suspected that Jane had a problem with her catering to Jorge and was really reacting to that before Jane even spoke it out loud.

Jorge's behavior when Jane apologized rubbed me the wrong way. He chooses then to make suggestions to Jane about changing her behavior.  His timing was a bit suspect to me and I felt a bit manipulative as he knew even if Jane did not agree she would just grin and bear it because she had already made Alba angry.

Jane did need to move out.  I just think they went about that and showing the fact that some women prefer the type of relationship Alba has with Jorge the wrong way.

River has gone into bunny boiler territory and that just came out of the left field.  I was really liking the growth between her and Rogelio as well her interactions with Xo and they have ruined it.  The writers really seem  bent on dismantling everything good about the show this season.

[natyxg]

32 minutes ago, miasth said:

The writers really seem  bent on dismantling everything good about the show this season.

IKR? So weird.

[truebluesmoky]

The other issue I had was with Alba saying that Jane never minded Alba taking care of Xiomara and Jane but only minded now because it was Jorge. The Villanueva women’s lives were never presented that way. Yes, Alba was the main breadwinner, but I believe Xo worked as well, and even Jane contributed once she was old enough. But more important than money, they were all responsible for housework and cooking. Even in the opening scene from the past, it’s little Jane balancing the checkbook. I think it’s rewriting history to suggest that Alba ever waited on Xo and Jane hand and foot. It seemed like they prided themselves on running their household as a team.

[blugirlami21]

I agree with everything said about Jorge. It really wasn't that Alba wanted to cater to her man and have the stereotypical man of the house, woman of the house thing that bothered me. It was the lack of awareness about sharing a home that bothered me with Jorge. Why couldn't he put his dish in the sink after dinner? Why couldn't he get the door if he was closest? 

I just find it hard to believe that the Alba that we have seen grow so much into herself and her womaness would so quickly revert to this antiquated mentality simply because she got married. I also don't think Alba would immediately take Jorge's side without really asking Jane what happened.  

I also agree with truebluesmoky that the dynamics of the Villanueva household were never Alba completely waiting on Xo and Jane hand and foot. I couldn't even imagine such a thing. Jane's problem with Jorge had nothing to do with the fact that he was a man. It was simply because he was a lazy jerk.

We didn't see any of this behavior when they were dating or when they were pretending for months. For me it regressed her character. 

As for the tv thing I really don't think that Jane was trying to tell Jorge that he couldn't do what he wanted when he wanted to.  I think Jane was looking for a compromise. That's what families do. Sometimes you have to do things you don't want to. Sometimes you have to actually try to help them when they ask for your help.

Him turning up the tv to drown out Mateo's tantrum and crying to Alba about Jane wasn't it.

[natyxg]

2 minutes ago, blugirlami21 said:

I agree with everything said about Jorge. It really wasn't that Alba wanted to cater to her man and have the stereotypical man of the house, woman of the house thing that bothered me. It was the lack of awareness about sharing a home that bothered me with Jorge. Why couldn't he put his dish in the sink after dinner? Why couldn't he get the door if he was closest?

Because he's the man of the house. *eyeroll*

I get that they wanted Jane to decide to leave, but this whole plot was very odd. Like someone said, it's like the writers want to destroy everything likeable this season.

[natyxg]

32 minutes ago, truebluesmoky said:

The other issue I had was with Alba saying that Jane never minded Alba taking care of Xiomara and Jane but only minded now because it was Jorge. The Villanueva women’s lives were never presented that way. Yes, Alba was the main breadwinner, but I believe Xo worked as well, and even Jane contributed once she was old enough. But more important than money, they were all responsible for housework and cooking. Even in the opening scene from the past, it’s little Jane balancing the checkbook. I think it’s rewriting history to suggest that Alba ever waited on Xo and Jane hand and foot. It seemed like they prided themselves on running their household as a team.

If Alba's mentality is all "man of the house this and that", then the other side of that coin would be that women are the ones who do housework and cooking. So, yes, no way she would play servant to Jane and Xo, and, in fact, teaching them housework stuff would be part of their preparation for marriage.

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, blugirlami21 said:

Why couldn't he put his dish in the sink after dinner?

Because he knew Alba would.  He wasn't asking or expecting Jane to do it. 

I also think it's tricky because the house is Alba's straight out.  Jane and Xio may have helped throughout the years but Xio has always had a spotty work history.  They also may have helped out around the house but Alba thinks Jorge does as well. 

Jane basically uses the house as a landing pad when she's not with someone.  This is especially true now as she's only there as long as Rafael won't have her.  Had he asked her to move back in at any point since she got back from Montana, she would have left the house and moved in the next day.

I think Alba is strong.  She survived being widowed and raised a daughter and a granddaughter.  She has opened up her mind a bit but she is pretty retrograde.  The whole premise of this show is based on her retro attitudes towards female sexuality. As much as the show tried to show Jane's decision to remain a virgin until marriage as her choice, they never were able to fully divorce that choice from Alba's flower metaphor.  And it seriously fucked up Jane's attitudes towards sex more than I think Jane would like to admit and affected her relationships with both Michael and Rafael even into her marriage.

Forget Rose, for a long time I saw Alba as the villain of this here show.  (Only kind of joking.)

So I'm not surprised she embraced old traditional roles that made her happy when she married Jorge.  Perhaps that's just the way they're going to be.  Maybe it's just their honeymoon phase.  I don't think she changed, though, just her circumstances did bringing out a side of her that was always there.

[bybrandy]

Jane's requests weren't out of bounds, I didn't think.  But if Jorge thought they were then Jorge should have said that they were.  Especially when Jane went to appologize.   Pretending like he was fine with Jane's requests, complaining to Alba about it and then not explaining his issues with said requests when he made requests of his own was to me out of line.  If he has issues with Jane he needs to take them up with Jane especially when Jane hadn't to that point taken up her issues with him to Alba.   Also he's a grown ass man he can take his plate to the sink.  

My nephew who is not diagnosed ADHD did have HUGE stores of energy that needed to be released for him to be effective in the classroom and literally when he started feeling that way he was told to run around the building and come back to focus.  So I didn't think running to school was crazy pants,   It is the fastest, easiest, to burn off steam.  But when it wasn't working for Mateo it was time to try some other kind of energy release.    I also was glad that Raf was wanting to scale back their intensity and maybe one day they will have the medication talk again... but this plot line didn't bother me including Jane's crazy all in approach felt very, very real to me in watching people react to such diagnosis.  The initial overreaction panic lets throw everything at this problem is a very real reaction in people like Jane so it felt like a step they were going to have to go through.

I hate the River plot because I don't buy that River would fall for Rogelio when he's nearly killed her half a dozen times.   

But not being a shipper I haven't minded this season much and I'm glad or the Jane Petra scenes which I always enjoy.  

 

[blugirlami21]

6 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Because he knew Alba would.  He wasn't asking or expecting Jane to do it. 

I also think it's tricky because the house is Alba's straight out.  Jane and Xio may have helped throughout the years but Xio has always had a spotty work history.  They also may have helped out around the house but Alba thinks Jorge does as well. 

Jane basically uses the house as a landing pad when she's not with someone.  This is especially true now as she's only there as long as Rafael won't have her.  Had he asked her to move back in at any point since she got back from Montana, she would have left the house and moved in the next day.

I think Alba is strong.  She survived being widowed and raised a daughter and a granddaughter.  She has opened up her mind a bit but she is pretty retrograde.  The whole premise of this show is based on her retro attitudes towards female sexuality. As much as the show tried to show Jane's decision to remain a virgin until marriage as her choice, they never were able to fully divorce that choice from Alba's flower metaphor.  And it seriously fucked up Jane's attitudes towards sex more than I think Jane would like to admit and affected her relationships with both Michael and Rafael even into her marriage.

Forget Rose, for a long time I saw Alba as the villain of this here show.  (Only kind of joking.)

So I'm not surprised she embraced old traditional roles that made her happy when she married Jorge.  Perhaps that's just the way they're going to be.  Maybe it's just their honeymoon phase.  I don't think she changed, though, just her circumstances did bringing out a side of her that was always there.

I actually don't mind if that's what Alba really wanted. I just feel like the writing and the mechanics for it don't really support it.  Jorge's character had to act out of character to force this reaction from Jane. Alba also had to regress to get to a place where she would immediately take Jorge's word without any kind of discussion.

I can usually count on Alba to be the voice of reason and that was missing for me in all her interactions with Jane. 

I know some people don't like Alba and I get that. She was really rigid in the first two seasons, so for me who she is now is light years away from that. Her reactions in this episode were very season one Alba in a bad way.

Idk maybe it's because I also come from a single parent mom household where there is no man of the house. Our family is a team, everyone does their part. So Jorge coming in and acting like king of the castle and Alba going along with it bugs.

Also the scene where Jane tried to come home and they were having sex on the couch was also just dumb. Clearly they had enough forethought to put the chain on the door. Why not send Jane a text or idk go have sex in their room?

I know it's Alba's house but she knows how to share it with other people and she agreed to let Jane stay there. You don't forget how to because you've been married for five minutes.

Edited June 7, 2019 by blugirlami21

[camom]

I think the show would have been just as good if Jane realized that living in the house with newlyweds Alba and Jorge was uncomfortable for her and made the decision to move out. They could have used lots of examples of quirky situations leading up to her decision.  There was no need to damage the reputations of Alba or Jorge.

[bybrandy]

16 hours ago, blugirlami21 said:

Also the scene where Jane tried to come home and they were having sex on the couch was also just dumb.

THIS!!!!!   I can totally see Alba and Jorge getting carried away on the couch if they were alone in the house but there is no way on earth Alba puts on the chain and gets busy on the couch.   No way, no how.

And it is fine Alba can feel how she wants but I think the more interesting story for her is how her feelings on her position in a relationship have evolved in the years since she lost her first husband.  She was alone for a long time and people change.

[perkie1968]

On 6/7/2019 at 2:31 AM, Irlandesa said:

On 6/6/2019 at 11:47 PM, blugirlami21 said:

Why couldn't he put his dish in the sink after dinner?

Because he knew Alba would. 

But why?  Alba was at work, so instead of getting up from the table and putting the dish in the sink (or heaven forbid wash the freakin' thing), he leaves it on the table for his wife to come home (however late) and do it??  Jorge was totally in the wrong here.  Jane asked two things of him and asked him nicely.  For him to agree to her requests than boo hoo hoo to Alba was total bull.  

I don't personally know any children with ADHD (as far as I know) but to me, Matteo just behaves like a bratty kid that needs a boatfull of discipline.  

[natyxg]

33 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

But why?  Alba was at work, so instead of getting up from the table and putting the dish in the sink (or heaven forbid wash the freakin' thing), he leaves it on the table for his wife to come home (however late) and do it?? 

No. He left it on the table for any woman around to pick it up. It doesn't matter who, it's just not his "job". Jane was there, so he probably figured she'd pick up the table.

[Irlandesa]

5 hours ago, perkie1968 said:

But why?  Alba was at work, so instead of getting up from the table and putting the dish in the sink (or heaven forbid wash the freakin' thing), he leaves it on the table for his wife to come home (however late) and do it?

Sure.  If that's how they choose to divide their tasks.  Or maybe he wanted to just wait before taking things to the kitchen. It's not like Jane needed the table.

But I've said my peace on why I think Jane's request, and her reasonings for it, were misguided.

5 hours ago, natyxg said:

No. He left it on the table for any woman around to pick it up. It doesn't matter who, it's just not his "job". Jane was there, so he probably figured she'd pick up the table.

We saw why he'd think Alba would do it for him.  We didn't see any indication that he thought Jane should.

[cardigirl]

Jorge reminded me of my former husband and his brothers when I first met his family. Their mother and aunts would do all of the inside stuff; cooking, cleaning, shopping, and the boys would immediately leave the dining room table and watch tv after a meal, while the women cleaned up.  I was appalled, while his mother and aunts saw nothing wrong with it at all. In fact, they did not want the men to help out. 

In my family, everyone worked together. We took turns setting the table, making the meals and doing the dishes, among other chores and we got in trouble if we failed to pitch in,  so this division of labor really bothered me but for my ex-husband's family, it was the way they wanted it.  

I guess different things work for different families. However, the idea that everyone should pitch in became a bit of a problem between my ex and I as our marriage progressed because he came to strongly believe that because he was the main breadwinner, he shouldn't have to do much 'housework' and he saw it as 'helping' me rather than as being a partner.  Sigh.

Lesson there ladies.  Raise them up correctly.  LOL. 

Edited June 12, 2019 by cardigirl

[natyxg]

9 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

We saw why he'd think Alba would do it for him.  We didn't see any indication that he thought Jane should.

So, he thought Jane was just going to leave the plate in there when she picked hers up? Just, a lonely plate attracting insects until Alba came home? I find it unlikely.