River Song: "Spoilers"

[penguinnj]

 

There had to have been another regeneration in between for Mels to be a year within Amy's age, who was born in 1989.  Maybe that was when and how Mels set up moving across the pond and being adopted by someone in the same town as the Ponds.

Well Mels says the last time she regenerated she wound up a toddler in the middle of NY which would have made her younger then the girl in the alley.  And was the regeneration in 1969?  Please tell me if I am wrong, but I thought she escaped and was living on the streets for a while.  It is a plothole, though

Edited September 7, 2015 by penguinnj

[penguinnj]

 

MS and AK have great comedic timing together but i never bought the emotional connection. It seemed to performative.

I blame Moffat for that one.  He really wanted to set up this whole - the first time you meet her she is totally his wife, and the wife who tells you to put the bins out.  So in a sense we missed the dating- the Picnic at Asgard, Easter Island, Jim the Fish (who also in the video game they go out for karaoke with), etc. Lots of telling not showing, which is aggravating. There is a webisode - I think it's called the Rain Gods- which is cute and funny and is them trying to go on a date.  I wish we had more of that.  

I understand why some people don't like all of the extras in the universe being used as canon, but that is the way it is.  I don't do all the audiobooks, so I usually here about those tidbits third-hand.  And I draw the line at spoken interviews- those ideas often get changed later.  It would be simpler if it were just the show.  I know during the Harry Potter years people would argue about what to make of Rowling's comments and postings.  Some people would only accept an idea if it were in the books.

Edited September 7, 2015 by penguinnj

[elle]

Well Mels says the last time she regenerated she wound up a toddler in the middle of NY which would have made her younger then the girl in the alley.  And was the regeneration in 1969?  Please tell me if I am wrong, but I thought she escaped and was living on the streets for a while.  It is a plothole, though

We see young Melody start a regeneration after she had escaped the spacesuit.  It is possible that she did become a toddler then (except wasn't she in Florida?), and the Silence reclaimed her and transported her in time and space to where Amy was to become "Mels" knowing that the Doctor would eventually show up.

 

I blame Moffat for that one.  He really wanted to set up this whole - the first time you meet her she is totally his wife, and the wife who tells you to put the bins out.  So in a sense we missed the dating- the Picnic at Asgard, Easter Island, Jim the Fish (who also in the video game they go out for karaoke with), etc. Lots of telling not showing, which is aggravating. There is a webisode - I think it's called the Rain Gods- which is cute and funny and is them trying to go on a date.  I wish we had more of that.  

I understand why some people don't like all of the extras in the universe being used as canon, but that is the way it is.  I don't do all the audiobooks, so I usually here about those tidbits third-hand.  And I draw the line at spoken interviews- those ideas often get changed later.  It would be simpler if it were just the show.  I know during the Harry Potter years people would argue about what to make of Rowling's comments and postings.  Some people would only accept an idea if it were in the books.

That would be fun to hear, not see, happening!

[Lokiberry]

 

In the Who according to Moffat, yes,  River is "the one".  In the Russell T. Davis era, Rose was "the one",  so much so he gave her a spare-Doctor.

 

Then there is the question of who was Susan's parents, was the Doctor really her grandfather?  And what about Romana and Four?

 

What about Romana and Four? She decided to stay behind in E-space instead of returning home to Gallifry when the Time Lords summoned her. The Doctor was a bit sad, and then moved on. There was never anything romantic between the two.

 

The Doctor had serious, romantic relationships with both Rose and River; and I'm sure he'll have another one somewhere down the road. Humans often have more than one relationship in the their lives; why shouldn't the Doctor who has lived/will live the equivalent of many human life times?

Edited September 8, 2015 by Lokiberry

[Commando Cody]

I read an article, years ago, that viewers of the show speculated that there something was going on between 4 and Roman 2. I probably never gave it a thought because I never liked her.  It was a good day for me when he left her in E-Space. 

 

I sometimes contemplate watching the River Song episodes backwards - two parters counting as one episode - just to try and understand the timey whimeyness of it all. I won't though. They made her story way too convoluted. They dragged out the "who is River" story way too long.  I couldn't wait for her story to end. Now for whatever reason, they feel like she has to come back for another episode.

 

I don't know why they do this. They kept teasing us with Clara leaving.  Then she's back. I think it's a big FU from Moffat to everyone who tells him they want his special girl gone. 

[Commando Cody]

*I just needed to add, I wasn't very old when 4 was on TV and it wouldn't have been something I looked for.  Also, The Doctor wasn't supposed to have romantic relationships.  He was The Doctor.  People traveled with him, they got into danger, The Doctor got rid of the problem, they went off in the Tardis to the next episode.  I never gave a thought to what went on The Tardis while they were getting there.  The Doctor didn't get involved with his assistants. They traveled with him for a while and then they got dropped off somewhere. 

[HauntedBathroom]

I don't know why they do this. They kept teasing us with Clara leaving.  Then she's back. I think it's a big FU from Moffat to everyone who tells him they want his special girl gone. 

I suppose that depends on how many people say that to him, and how many people tell him they love his companions.. And how many people don't express an opinion either way, and just enjoy the show.

[Archery]

Quote


 

There had to have been another regeneration in between for Mels to be a year within Amy's age, who was born in 1989.  Maybe that was when and how Mels set up moving across the pond and being adopted by someone in the same town as the Ponds.

 

Well Mels says the last time she regenerated she wound up a toddler in the middle of NY which would have made her younger then the girl in the alley.  And was the regeneration in 1969?  Please tell me if I am wrong, but I thought she escaped and was living on the streets for a while.  It is a plothole, though

 

Not necessarily a plothole.  The Doctor's physical appearance doesn't follow any chronology.  Eleven looks younger than Four, who looked younger than One.  River's appearance could jump around like that, as well.  And the Silence could pick her up and plop her anywhere and anywhen they wanted to. 

[MissL]

I guess I haven’t  found my people. My opinion is going to be super unpopular. I don’t like River. I’ve only seen two episodes where she appears so far. Maybe it will change but I’m already a bit spoiled for future and I don’t think so. Maybe it’s already knowing she’s supposed to be some epic love.  I’m watching for first time and currently in Season 5. 

First episode she appears she’s…ok. The episode is good. I don’t think she had much chemistry with Tennant or Smith but I bought 10 being very upset she died for him. I would have been ok never seeing her again but that wouldn’t fit the story as laid out I guess, already annoyed with “spoilers”.

Second episode my god she’s annoying and cocky and she does the “Mary Poppins space walk” well before Princess Leia does right?  She knows everything and figure’s everything out. Officially done with SPOILERS and at this point does Alex Kingston know that Amy is her mom? Doesn’t feel like it.  Maybe I’m just not an Alex Kingston fan. I’ve liked everyone else. All companions and extra hanger ons…Even Mickey. 
Really not looking forward to seeing her pop up again and again. just my personal opinion but nobody in my life watches this show so nowhere to rant but here! 

 

[Chaos Theory]

11 minutes ago, MissL said:

I guess I haven’t  found my people. My opinion is going to be super unpopular. I don’t like River. I’ve only seen two episodes where she appears so far. Maybe it will change but I’m already a bit spoiled for future and I don’t think so. Maybe it’s already knowing she’s supposed to be some epic love.  I’m watching for first time and currently in Season 5. 

First episode she appears she’s…ok. The episode is good. I don’t think she had much chemistry with Tennant or Smith but I bought 10 being very upset she died for him. I would have been ok never seeing her again but that wouldn’t fit the story as laid out I guess, already annoyed with “spoilers”.

Second episode my god she’s annoying and cocky and she does the “Mary Poppins space walk” well before Princess Leia does right?  She knows everything and figure’s everything out. Officially done with SPOILERS and at this point does Alex Kingston know that Amy is her mom? Doesn’t feel like it.  Maybe I’m just not an Alex Kingston fan. I’ve liked everyone else. All companions and extra hanger ons…Even Mickey. 
Really not looking forward to seeing her pop up again and again. just my personal opinion but nobody in my life watches this show so nowhere to rant but here! 

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and yours isn’t that unique especially among fans who want The Doctor to be extra special unique and from the very very start River Song was written as his equal and The Doctor isn’t supposed to have an equal.    Personally I think the entire romance works because she is his equal.  She is never some doe eyed love interest who falls in love with him because he is Uber special god like creature which is how Rose, Martha and heck even Jack Harkness viewed him.   River Song fell in love with The Doctor because they had fun together and that is why The Doctor fell in love with her.    

Edited February 7 by Chaos Theory

[MissL]

7 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and yours isn’t that unique especially among fans who want The Doctor to be extra special unique and from the very very start River Song was written as his equal and The Doctor isn’t supposed to have an equal.    Personally I think the entire romance works because she is his equal.  

I don’t need him to be extra special. I don’t mind him having an equal. I like it when someone comes up with something he fails to see (which actually happens from time to time).  I just don’t like how the character of River was presented. She doesn’t present as his equal so much as someone who is trying to always be better than him. Like SHE wants to show off for him. I haven’t seen any real affection yet. Just a lot of her trying to “take the piss out him”. Mostly talk of their bond and not show.

I don’t have the doctor on a pedestal and I do like it when he gets made fun of a bit. Actually as a whole I often find the show predictable and poorly written but it’s cheesy and good fun for the most part….And I have nostalgia from when I was a kid watching the show. I mean the CHEESE. The Daleks still have a plunger arm for goodness sake. 
 

I think I can just not like her and not just because I don’t get it somehow and don’t want him to have an equal. Is ok. I was a Noel not Ben and a Stefan not Damen girl so I’m used to being minority! 

[Llywela]

I never liked River. I like Alex Kingston and think she played the character well, but I disliked the character concept - and not because I think the Doctor is unique and can never have an equal. I just wasn't sold on River's circumstances making her that equal. I think the way Moffat wrote the character tried too hard and over-egged the pudding. He wanted her to be not just equal to the Doctor but superior, so he threw in things like her complaining that the TARDIS noise is because of the Doctor 'leaving the parking brake on', as if that distinct TARDIS engine noise is a fault and not the same sound every other TARDIS we've ever seen on the show has also made. I think it should be possible to write a strong, engaging character without retconning show history just to make a snappy one-liner. I'm not sold on the concept of a human baby conceived in the TARDIS gaining Time Lord regenerative powers, that just isn't plausible to me. And I disliked the way Matt Smith's Doctor was written to act around her. It came off smarmy and even sleazy at times, and combined with other plot points I disliked to make one big mess that I just couldn't get on board with.

[supposebly]

River's character for me was often saved by Alex Kingston's performance for me who managed to shave off some of the ridiculousness Moffat made her say and do and managed to imbue her with something more than a weird combination of hero-worship and "I'm so sexy because I have a gun" weirdness. A collection of Sci-fi trope-ish female characteristics with a gun.

Still, it's difficult not to roll my eyes sometimes. Both Amy and River were interesting to start with but he never made them compelling characters with a rich inner life. A compendium of catch-phrases and tropes whose life revolved around the Doctor. More so with Amy but even River.

[ForReal]

The first few times I saw her I didn't like her, either. She was so cocky and annoying. As time went by and we saw some of the things she'd been through and realize what all she has seen, she seemed less annoying to me. The episode she has with Peter Capaldi is perfect.

[libgirl2]

On 2/10/2024 at 6:36 PM, ForReal said:

The first few times I saw her I didn't like her, either. She was so cocky and annoying. As time went by and we saw some of the things she'd been through and realize what all she has seen, she seemed less annoying to me. The episode she has with Peter Capaldi is perfect.

That is one of my favorite episodes of the new series. I adored River Song from the beginning. She was just so cool and I loved the banter between her and the Doctor. She did love him, every single regeneration of him. 

Edited February 12 by libgirl2

[ForReal]

18 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

That is one of my favorite episodes of the new series. I adored River Song from the beginning. She was just so cool and I loved the banter between her and the Doctor. She did love him, every single regeneration of him. 

I started watching at the beginning of the eleventh doctor, but somewhere after the introduction to Riversong, my daughter had me start at the beginning with the ninth doctor and then the tenth. By the time I saw the episode in the library, I understood things differently. As I watched her through the rest of the show, I just liked her more and more.

[Affogato]

I liked that River’s relationship with the Doctor and his support and example helped her overcome her early trauma. Also that she was never fully successful, until maybe close to the end. 

[jah1986]

Was never a fan of River with Eleven. I did really like her with Twelve. Maybe it was just the actors seemed more on equal footing. She seemed to turn Eleven into an idiot whenever she appeared. And shouldn't she have known less about him each time they met instead of more?

[Llywela]

2 hours ago, jah1986 said:

Was never a fan of River with Eleven. I did really like her with Twelve. Maybe it was just the actors seemed more on equal footing. She seemed to turn Eleven into an idiot whenever she appeared. And shouldn't she have known less about him each time they met instead of more?

They were meeting out of order, rather than backward, so it should vary.

[ForReal]

On 2/14/2024 at 5:52 AM, jah1986 said:

She seemed to turn Eleven into an idiot whenever she appeared.

In retrospect, she knew more about their relationship than he did, and he was just starting to catch the vibe and flirt back. Their various encounters were all over the place, time wise, so she always had the advantage, something few people have with the Doctor.