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kariyaki

S03.E11: Chapter Forty-Six: The Red Dahlia

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After one of their own becomes the target of an unseen assailant, the gang works together to get to the bottom of Riverdale's latest mystery. Meanwhile, Betty works with a surprising ally to piece together clues about a series of deaths in the town. Elsewhere, a spiraling Archie sets out on a new path, while Jughead comes face to face with Ms. Mulwray, Hiram's alleged mistress.

Airdate: Wednesday, January 30, 2019

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Before I start, I have to say: One of the things being posted about on social media for photos for this episode was “who shot Hiram?” As if it’s a big mystery and to be honest, I don’t really care? Maybe I’m alone but it’s not like we’re at the tail end of the season and I very much doubt that Hiram is going to die, despite the contrary of the show trying to make us think that or trying to make it seem like in promos that Archie is going to shoot him while he lies in his hospital bed. It’s things like this that make me shake my head at this show.  And yeah according to other posts on Instagram, there will maybe be another death this episode, but it won’t be a main character. It’ll be a supporting character.

 

Also apparently we do find out who shot Hiram if I’m being honest, I don’t really care? I know the main suspect is Hermione right now. Or at least she’s the one who set it all up, even if she wasn’t the one to pull the trigger she may have set it up but I feel like that’s too easy. I could be wrong though.

 

Anyways.. 

 

Jughead is narrating as he types on his typewriter.  Also at least he’s telling FP but I’m not sure if that’s great either. And how FP is acting all high and mighty.. yeah he’s super great. Also Jughead called betty his girlfriend and my Bughead heart squeals.

 

Also I have no idea if Betty is playing Hal or not. In this scene.. nope. They’re just sharing fun murder secrets. Seriously.

 

And archie is thinking college isn’t for him. It probably isnt. Because he hasn’t been to a English class in a while. Or any class. Also I get that this is a noir episode but ugh.. on the music cues.

 

Also Archie decides his best action is to hit people.

 

And Hiram is clinging to life? Sure. Also i want Veronica to finally get hers now. All her scenes make me roll my eyes.

 

Especially this big noir moment with Jughead. A week ago she was accusing archie and how she already thinks it’s her mother? I mean she should have had that anyway. 

 

Also yes I get what the show is trying to do with this noir homage but it’s probably not great when I can’t deal with the way the actors are speaking 7 minutes in. I get it’s the noir part of it all and I’m probably the only one who’s going to get annoyed by it but I’m not into it, it’s already taking me out of it but again I will digress because I’m sure you all will love it so please don’t quote me on it.

 

Also the line Jughead saying if he had known what he would find at the end of finding it who shot Hiram... that means we’re probably going to find out it’s FP who did it right? And I’m guessing Hermione probably arranged it.

 

So Hermione was fighting with Hiram about her his affair? I don’t think so. I still stand by that he’s poisoning the water of Riverdale for seizures and Veronica got one. But whatever. 

 

Fred being the only parent in Riverdale. Also.. these two are totally on a different show. This is why archies storyline is so much better actually than most of the others. 

 

Nana Blossom should have hated Claduis too. He pushed her down the stairs! Also why is cheryl at this funeral? Is Cheryl accepting her mother again? Also Toni and Cheryl suck. I really dislike them both. Why is cheryl protecting her family? Also Toni is one of the worst characters on this show.

 

And I guess veronica is back in her family graces now too? I’m really glad that we are shown how terrible these parents are only for all of them to just fall back into them. 

 

Veronica and Reggie still aren’t a thing yet. Good. I dislike them both now and don’t want then to be all happy. Sorry not sorry.

 

Yay Bughead scene! And a secret sex club in Riverdale. That Penelope runs? But I mean... we already knew this was happening. At the end of season 2. But also odd to pick this back up this far into the season. Also Bughead gets a cute scene and a kiss.

 

Josie gets to sing.  And Archie is hanging out at the speakeasy his ex girlfriend runs? Where her new hook up works? But also dear Reggie SHUT UP! You have no room to talk about anything. Again why do people like these characters? Reggie sucks. I feel like this is a scene that is supposed to show us that Reggie cares so much about Veronica but all it does is make me want to punch him in the face. He’s a crap friend. 

 

Also Josie is helping Archie. That’s sweet. 

 

Also yeah I’m not sure if it’s this episode or that as of the end of last week I fully admitted I like next to no one on this show and I’m only here to Bughead and Betty scenes and Jughead scenes but so far, it seems like most of these characters on screen tonight just makes me roll my eyes and want them off my screen. 

 

Seriously. They really have decided to just 180 Veronica this episode from how she’s been this whole season haven’t they? She was all against her father for half of this season and then she switches her mind because he got shot? Even though he’s still an awful human being and she knows. Hope the serpents aren’t still doing security for her because she will burn them alive if her dad asks.Also Jughead should not be looking to help her find out who shot her dad.

 

So Clifford blossom didn’t kill himself.. surprise. Said no viewer ever. 

 

Also Josie helping Archie. And tries to give him advice, take up boxing! But Archie has demons And now deciding he’s going to shoot Hiram. Yeah right.

 

Also Veronica is hearing more things about her father. And Hermione wants to sell the drugs to.. someone.

 

So Betty confronts Penelope. And poisons people. But yeah knew someone was poisoning the water to cause the seizures but someone else is getting those drugs now so chances.

 

Also yup. Hal’s a great support system. He sold out what she did to faux Chic to Penelope. 

 

Hey it’s kelly Ripa! Who is playing Hiram’s mistress. Also does water inspecting but not really, which is not surprising.  

 

Also Sheriff minetta is Alive and hearing an affair! So my guess is Hermione set him up to shot Hiram and frame FP. Probably. Wow. Just when you think these characters cannot be any more worse they do this.  I’m not a fan of FP but this makes me laugh a little that people think Hermione is cool. Nope she sucks just as much as Hiram. Also..  wonder if veronica will even attempt an apology to Archie for her crap behavior last week? More than likely no. No one really has to on this show. At least not the people who definitely should.

 

So Archie is just going to shoot Hiram in his hospital bed? What is this logic? 

 

 

So okay no one is ever dead on this show.  I’m getting sick of that.

 

Also whoa FP just did it? Huh. That’s interesting.  And hey they remember that Hiram didn’t just try and kill Archie he tried to kill Jughead too. But whatever. Also no... why are they asking for Alice to help? She’s awful.  This entire episode is kind of painful. No one makes any sense. 

 

Hey. The only decent story... Archies. 

 

Yeah.. I know I’m going to be alone in this but I’m not a fan of this episode. I get that they were doing a noir episode so whatever, even if I found the dialogue super cringe and it was I can whatever on that but this episode and the characters behaviors and actions don’t make any sort of damn sense. Like why is cheryl even attending her uncles funeral? Even before she joined the serpents she hated him and her mother, why is Jughead saying they need to go to Alice for help? Does he not know Alice sent Betty to the sisters? Also yeah apparently she and FP are doing whatever but Jughead should not want her help

With anything. She’s making bettys life a living hell!  I’m so completely lost on this. Why is Veronica suddenly back to doing her mob daughter status thing again? Is it because this is a noir episode? It’s just messy. No one is making sense. And I know you guys are all going to quote me and say I’m wrong but these are just my feelings.

 

So now they’re having Tall Boy who is dead being the person to have shit Hiram. And fooling Hermione. I don’t really care. I’m just not into this episode at all. 

 

Of course they have Charles make a mention of bad boys 2.. because he’s in it!!! Ha ha meta. Not really. I kind f feel bad I just want this episode to be over.

 

Also Archie calls Veronica. Also Archie you don’t need to say sorry. Hey look veronica apologizes. But it still just feels.. empty. Whatever. I’m sorry. Her behavior was so awful last week. 

 

So... the fight with Hiram and Archie is just done? Huh. What the hell was that? Well. I mean yeah I’m sure as hell glad it’s over but what?? Also.. a totally different show is happening when Archie is on screen and a much better one at that. 

 

And Reggie and Veronica decide to burn the fizzle rocks. Well.. damn, what’s the farm going to give all their cult members? Oh come on you know Edgar was the person who was willing to buy it from Hermione. 

 

Also Jughead “the only person she could talk to”? Are you kidding? Ugh. Okay I’m now thinking Betty isn’t playing Hal at all. Now if she’s talking to Hal like this. And now the show has Jughead voice overing this? Are you kidding?!? Ew. Also why is betty still talking to him?!?!  He sold her out! Why isn’t she talking to Jughead? This makes me feel really uncomfortable. 

 

Also Archie and Josie. Cute.

 

So Hermione is upset about the fizzle rocks being destroyed.

 

Also Jughead knows everything now and Hermione knows. But also Jughead shouldn’t be giving away that he knows everything. Also of course tall boy was not only the g and g king he was the one who shot at the mayor debate. And Hermione wants all the secrets to be kept. 

 

And then Hermione kills minetta.

 

Also.. Veronica doesn’t want to know who really did it. Yeah again.. all these things are just going to add up to none of these people to have any sort of relationships. 

 

Ugh. I didn’t like this episode very much. Once I got past the cringey noir aspect, the actual behavior and characters made no sense. I know you all probably loved it, I will be all alone in not.

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SO, someone tell me the difference between the Serpents and Hiram?  Hiram is more stylish, that's the only difference.  I'll never understand the worship for the sacred cows of Riverdale.

I've never criticized KJ's acting (he can be quite good) but he totally broke character when he got into the fight with the Forman.  All of his acting was, not good.  Maybe drunk is hard to play.

In other news. I LOVE Hermione Lodge.  She is DIABOLICAL.  She schemed to have FP shoot Hiram, then made FP Sheriff so that she could easily arrange him to take the fall. I also cracked up when Veronica FINALLY had an effective idea, dismantling Hiram's business now, while he can't do anything about it and Hermione stopped her saying, "let's sell it."  The woman is mercenary to her core.  A Father like Hiram and a Mother like Hermione.  

When Hermione realized she had been outmaneuvered by FP.  And her final scene with Jughead?!?!  We have not heard the last of the villainess Hermione.

Veronica is nowhere NEAR as smart as her parents, but she has their hubris and likely as dark a destiny.  Her sense of self-aggrandizement is going to be her undoing if she's not careful.  On her own I don't think she'd fair well in the world.  She tends to inspire people to care about her. Archie, Betty, Reggie and sometimes I think Jughead, likes her ok, if he squints.  All much more worldly then she is.

She tends to believe things when they appeal to her ego.  Archie showed up at the hospital to talk to her?!?!?! On the other hand, that was a nice cap for Archie and Veronica.  Veronica offering to be a friend, I believe she mean't it.  I don't mind sexually insatiable Veronica, but I wonder what Archie and Veronica would have been like if the writers had chosen to give attention to the writing for them.

I also continued to like the scenes with Jughead and Veronica.  And I HATE Jughead.  I would never want them to be a ship but sometimes when they share a scene, I honestly think they would make really good friends.

I forgive the Riverdale writers EVERYTHING because of Veronica's exquisite wardrobe.   The Hat. Wonderful.  I myself, don't have the bone structure but the drama of it suited Veronica.  The dress she wore when she fired those two at the hospital? The top portion was exquisite, the bottom, WAY to long.  So close but so far.  

Loved the lighting on the closing line "Forget it Jughead, it's Riverdale."

I'd give the episode a 7.5/10

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I can give the episode a 4. For me it was one of the worst. Again I know I’m going to be alone but all the characters did terrible actions and behavior that did not make sense.

Also I don’t know.. people say Veronica and Archie can’t be a ship because Hiram tried to kill Archie, how could Jughead and Veronica be friends? Hiram tried to kill him, and his dad has now shot her dad. At some point these things should be addressed too.

I loved the Bughead scene though.

Edited by WhosThatGirl
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A secret sex club in Riverdale is literally the least shocking revelation ever. And what town is Jughead talking about when he writes about how Riverdale used to be some innocent, peaceful little town? I think its been very well established that Riverdale has been Crazyville since day one. 

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6 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

A secret sex club in Riverdale is literally the least shocking revelation ever. And what town is Jughead talking about when he writes about how Riverdale used to be some innocent, peaceful little town? I think its been very well established that Riverdale has been Crazyville since day one. 

I guess he means before the pilot? But also what did he mean when Hal is the only person who betty can talk to? What about him? And also hal is selling bettys secrets now too! It makes me so angry at the show. Also I can’t help but think that this is what will break up Bughead this season. I know there have been other moments we haven’t seen Bughead talk about but we learn that they do talk about them, but the Hal stuff... I very much doubt Jughead would let Betty go to the prison alone and talk to him. Maybe I’m wrong but I feel this is what is going to break them.

Also not to mention Jughead enlisting Alices help. Doesn’t Jughead know that Alice is making his girlfriends life hell?!?! It’s like all these characters are living different lives away from each other.

Edited by WhosThatGirl
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Hi black sheriff guy… Bye black sheriff guy…. Josie finally speaks.. Maybe next week they’ll remember Toni had a brain and mouth before she became the brown blob that’s attached to Cheryl blossom… Hell is mad dog dead again.. Is chuck still at the school… The actor is done on black lightning maybe he can come back and finally get treated fairly… Is Kevin still alive?

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This season is showing a pattern of resurrecting dead people and then killing them off 30 minutes later. Who's next? 

Yes, show, I got it. This episode was trying to emulate noir films with the Jughead/Veronica stuff. It wasn't horrible, but I wasn't really invested.

The Archie stuff could have been so interesting if they dragged it out longer. That being said, this Hiram/Archie feud being over? Do I buy it? Not one bit. It may stay gone for a while, but I'm willing to bet it returns in the finale. Honestly, I'd be alright if Archie eventually killed him. When Mystery Shooter came in to kill Hiram as Archie was in the shadows, I'd like to think he distracted him because he wanted the kill shot. I don't buy Archie getting over his anger at Hiram all because he spoke to his unconscious body (where he knows he's the safest) and then had do save him from some other person. At least Josie is remembered as a main character! 

Betty....talked with her father and met with Penelope. That's pretty much all that she did.

Hermione gets something to do, so that's...nice. Even if it's basically a replica of Archie vs Hiram with Jughead. I'm so cool with FP being revealed to be Hiram's shooter, as well.  

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The noir theme of the episode was fun, as Riverdale is already a bizarre campy noir every week, so just cutting to the chance and having dames and typewriters and LOTS of shadows so pretty much inevitable. 

Veronica is very much got a pride before the fall thing going on. She is pretty smart, but not as smart or as experiences as you thinks she is. Going up against her parents, two seasoned career criminals, she is often going to be outfoxed. Her outfits are to DIE for though, and I did like seeing her old doorman again. I even like her possible romance with Reggie pretty well, they seem like they would have fun together. On the other hand, they both would ideally need someone to ground them, especially Veronica, who needs people to drag her extra ass back down to earth. And Reggie seems way more into her than she is into him. 

Hermione is a pretty awesome villain, even more so than Hiram. She is seriously devious, and is always looking for a new plan and a new angle. While Veronica seems to think her dad is the bigger villain, I think Hermione is as much of, if not an even bigger, threat. 

Betty, maybe dont give time to your psychopathic dad, and imply that you might get over the whole serial killer thing. Murdering people? Still not a great look. I did laugh at Penelope calling Betty out on having her Not Brother killed, while going on about her murders. I also liked seeing a bit of the Blossom funeral, I can always get into some Blossom gothic melodrama. I do wish that Toni and Cheryl got a bit more to do. Or, hell, give Toni anything to do beside be Cheryl's arm candy? They had more scenes together before they were even a couple!

Nice to see Archie and Josie have some scenes together. The old days? Josie, wasn't that just a few months ago? Or last school year? How does time work on this show again? It was fun to see Archie being reminded of his simple days, when all he wanted to do was play football and get some acoustic guitar in. Not a single bear mauling! Now, where are Mel and Valerie?

Edited by tennisgurl
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1 minute ago, Lady Calypso said:

This season is showing a pattern of resurrecting dead people and then killing them off 30 minutes later. Who's next? 

Yes, show, I got it. This episode was trying to emulate noir films with the Jughead/Veronica stuff. It wasn't horrible, but I wasn't really invested.

The Archie stuff could have been so interesting if they dragged it out longer. That being said, this Hiram/Archie feud being over? Do I buy it? Not one bit. It may stay gone for a while, but I'm willing to bet it returns in the finale. Honestly, I'd be alright if Archie eventually killed him. When Mystery Shooter came in to kill Hiram as Archie was in the shadows, I'd like to think he distracted him because he wanted the kill shot. I don't buy Archie getting over his anger at Hiram all because he spoke to his unconscious body (where he knows he's the safest) and then had do save him from some other person. At least Josie is remembered as a main character! 

Betty....talked with her father and met with Penelope. That's pretty much all that she did.

Hermione gets something to do, so that's...nice. Even if it's basically a replica of Archie vs Hiram with Jughead. I'm so cool with FP being revealed to be Hiram's shooter, as well.  

Eh. I really thought this was such a bad episode. Nothing made sense. I kind of really just wanted to watch Archie scenes also the mystery shooter was Minetta and they were going to frame FP.

All of the noir stuff was super cringe as I said and I get that that  was the point but it can’t be ignored.

Also Again I have to say Reggie’s reactions were probably supposed to make me believe he cares abot Veronica so but it just made me dislike him even more.

Also Veronica shouldn’t have any sort of relationship with anyone. Her dad has tried to kill both Jughead and Archie and Jugheads dad has shot her dad.

Also again the Betty and Hal stuff is

more than likely leading to a resurgence of dark Betty, I’m sure of it at least 90% and I know I’m worrying too much about the state of Bughead but it feels like this might be what breaks them and ew. For a lot of reasons. I wanted to think betty was playing Hal but I don’t think so anymore. It’s really gross. 

I don’t know. I’m also really over the characters not being dead. I get this show is a lot of suspended disbelief but it’s getting Grating and sadly it’s making everything less shocking. That’s why whenever RAS will tweet “this ending of the episode is so shocking “ it’s not going to be. Shrug.

Agajn here for Bughead and that’s all. There the only characters I like.

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Hermione is a pretty awesome villain, even more so than Hiram. She is seriously devious, and is always looking for a new plan and a new angle. While Veronica seems to think her dad is the bigger villain, I think Hermione is as much of, if not an even bigger, threat. 

Did you see the look on Hermione's face when FP started pushing for her to have a sit down interview with Alice. LMAO.  I wanted to laugh and then recoil.  She looked like she was going to start hissing like a cobra.  I think what makes her a more dangerous villain than Hiram, is her ability to APPEAR harmless.  She's more subtle but almost as lethal, as Penelope.  Kill Hiram, have FP take the fall and clean up without a LOT of money.  I can't wait to see what her next scheme will be.

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Veronica is very much got a pride before the fall thing going on. She is pretty smart, but not as smart or as experiences as you thinks she is. Going up against her parents, two seasoned career criminals, she is often going to be outfoxed. Her outfits are to DIE for though, and I did like seeing her old doorman again. I even like her possible romance with Reggie pretty well, they seem like they would have fun together. On the other hand, they both would ideally need someone to ground them, especially Veronica, who needs people to drag her extra ass back down to earth. And Reggie seems way more into her than she is into him.

I want to hire whoever dressed Veronica this episode.   And I agree with everything you said.  Hubris has taken her far.  That and the support of her Parents but on her own and without her family's money, I'd be worried about her.   Jughead, Betty even Archie, I can see making it out in the world.   Veronica comes across as REALLY sheltered.  Her heart tends to be in the right place, when she thinks about others besides herself BUT she rarely thinks about the nuts and bolts.  That could be her undoing one day.

I'd even say Reggie comes off as more street wise and worldly than she does.  Though I don't doubt she trumps him academically.  I don't mind Reggie being more into her, than the reverse.  That seems Veronica's speed as well.  

It makes me wonder what her life was like in NY.  I picture her in a sea of shady people who let her be oblivious because they love her (Hiram and Hermione), they want her in bed (Nick St. Claire) or they are just hangers on.  

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So now they’re having Tall Boy who is dead being the person to have shit Hiram. 

VERY good typo, because besides the absolute ludicrousness of a man who's been dead as long as Hiram's been in the hospital being the shooter, can we talk about how HP has no sense of smell? He's in a small, un-ventilated room with a corpse of over 24 hours under the bed and doesn't sniff anything amiss? Not to mention the idea that Dumb and Dumber (that is, Sweet Pea and Fangs) managed to apparently mop up the blood and brains all over the place. I mean, I get that HP didn't buy their story but this is a guy who has buried many, many bodies. He knows that odor. Luckily, Dr. Ghoul whathisface over at the morgue will obviously have no problem doctoring up a death certificate or three.

Well! I appreciated this one in much the same way I appreciated the horror movie one last season, in that it decided to be silly in a particular way and used that to (ridiculously) wrap up a bunch of stuff and set the stage for further follies and grotesques. No, none of it made a lick of sense and as WhosThatGirl points out, the character dime-turns are starting to take on the aspect of a coked-out ballerina dancing Swan Lake in triple time, but what the hell. It's Riverdale.

Okay, so...let's start with how apparently the writers decided to have characters that haven't interacted in WEEKS suddenly depend on each other for life-shattering revelations, double-cross setups, and heartfelt talks. Veronica, for starters.

Setting aside the whole "I must find out who shot the dad I hate" thing  as something she cares about this week for a second, why on earth would she go to Jughead and Jughead alone? It would make more sense, since she has barely interacted with either of them in weeks, to go to BETTY, and perhaps put both of them on the case that way. Betty could still bow out when she did and have Jug finish things up, but Vee and Jug aren't especially close and never have been. I guess she thought since she was already paying for Serpent protection hiring Jug just made sense in a keeping it in-house way, but there wasn't any dialogue that made that clear. She basically handed over almost all her cash for this and in the end didn't even want the truth. (Speaking of Vee and her apparent inability to get how assets and debts work, how much longer do you think Pops is going to put up with this? Is he even getting paid these days?) 

Of course, Ronnie's problem is not only one of her dad, but her mother, who this week decided to do a lot of shit and end up right back where she started but neck-deep in debt to some mysterious buyer or other (HELLO EDGAR WE KNOW IT'S YOU.) I honestly couldn't work out if Hiram was boning the water studies woman, or if Hermione just thought she was, or was deliberately throwing Jug off or what. Plus she now has to get rid of Minetta's corpse AGAIN. She's like Veronica 1.0 or something--all her schemes just keep exploding in her face like so many Fizzle Rocks. 

Okay, Betty! This entire "entranced by a killer" thing is getting boring as well as insulting. You are smarter than this and having the character play dumb is painful to watch. I think both of the actors are doing a fine job, Hal managing to make his voice and body language echo back to when he was Betty's beloved, normal dad and bulwark against Alice's nuttery. It's just so annoying to have Betty confronted, over and over again, with how her dad keeps betraying her and seemingly just skating over it to focus on Penelope, who up until now barely interested her at all, only to drop it with the specious reasoning that maybe all murderers aren't guilty or whatever that rot was. (Plus, she never got an answer to her perfectly good question as to why this so-called runoff ONLY AFFECTED YOUNG WOMEN). Maybe it's supposed to be some kind of transference thing or whatever but again, they aren't giving her any dialogue or moments to support that. 

(As far as Penelope goes, why is she so eager to open a brothel when she's already running one? I guess space and rent could be issues. Also, isn't The Five Seasons supposed to be swanky? Why are they okay with this low-rent illegal shit going down? Also, I buy the idea of her poisoning her husband then hauling his deadweight body up atop a syrup barrel and setting up that whole hanging scenario about as much as I do the entire Tallboy thing.)

Speaking of hauling deadweight, hey Josie! You are stronger than you look, girl, since you apparently carried a drunk and belligerent Archie all the way home, upstairs to his bathroom, and dunked him in his tub while wearing a full length dress and heels! In the middle of the day! Plus fixing him nourishing drinks and giving him tough love and such, even though, again, it seems like these two have barely even spoken since he got back. She did help break him out of Juvie, but so did Kevin and he was nowhere to be found. Must be boxing with his dad or something.

Is it summer? Is school still even in session? Is there still even a school? Why is it pouring rain during Jughead's scenes and at no other time? How are the characters teleporting all over town? Why is Cheryl okay with her horrible mother in her house at the wake? Why does Toni still even exist? Why is Reggie underage bartending and serving drinks to another minor? SO MANY QUESTIONS. But, it's Riverdale.

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13 minutes ago, Snookums said:

VERY good typo, because besides the absolute ludicrousness of a man who's been dead as long as Hiram's been in the hospital being the shooter, can we talk about how HP has no sense of smell? He's in a small, un-ventilated room with a corpse of over 24 hours under the bed and doesn't sniff anything amiss? Not to mention the idea that Dumb and Dumber (that is, Sweet Pea and Fangs) managed to apparently mop up the blood and brains all over the place. I mean, I get that HP didn't buy their story but this is a guy who has buried many, many bodies. He knows that odor. Luckily, Dr. Ghoul whathisface over at the morgue will obviously have no problem doctoring up a death certificate or three.

Well! I appreciated this one in much the same way I appreciated the horror movie one last season, in that it decided to be silly in a particular way and used that to (ridiculously) wrap up a bunch of stuff and set the stage for further follies and grotesques. No, none of it made a lick of sense and as WhosThatGirl points out, the character dime-turns are starting to take on the aspect of a coked-out ballerina dancing Swan Lake in triple time, but what the hell. It's Riverdale.

Okay, so...let's start with how apparently the writers decided to have characters that haven't interacted in WEEKS suddenly depend on each other for life-shattering revelations, double-cross setups, and heartfelt talks. Veronica, for starters.

Setting aside the whole "I must find out who shot the dad I hate" thing  as something she cares about this week for a second, why on earth would she go to Jughead and Jughead alone? It would make more sense, since she has barely interacted with either of them in weeks, to go to BETTY, and perhaps put both of them on the case that way. Betty could still bow out when she did and have Jug finish things up, but Vee and Jug aren't especially close and never have been. I guess she thought since she was already paying for Serpent protection hiring Jug just made sense in a keeping it in-house way, but there wasn't any dialogue that made that clear. She basically handed over almost all her cash for this and in the end didn't even want the truth. (Speaking of Vee and her apparent inability to get how assets and debts work, how much longer do you think Pops is going to put up with this? Is he even getting paid these days?) 

Of course, Ronnie's problem is not only one of her dad, but her mother, who this week decided to do a lot of shit and end up right back where she started but neck-deep in debt to some mysterious buyer or other (HELLO EDGAR WE KNOW IT'S YOU.) I honestly couldn't work out if Hiram was boning the water studies woman, or if Hermione just thought she was, or was deliberately throwing Jug off or what. Plus she now has to get rid of Minetta's corpse AGAIN. She's like Veronica 1.0 or something--all her schemes just keep exploding in her face like so many Fizzle Rocks. 

Okay, Betty! This entire "entranced by a killer" thing is getting boring as well as insulting. You are smarter than this and having the character play dumb is painful to watch. I think both of the actors are doing a fine job, Hal managing to make his voice and body language echo back to when he was Betty's beloved, normal dad and bulwark against Alice's nuttery. It's just so annoying to have Betty confronted, over and over again, with how her dad keeps betraying her and seemingly just skating over it to focus on Penelope, who up until now barely interested her at all, only to drop it with the specious reasoning that maybe all murderers aren't guilty or whatever that rot was. (Plus, she never got an answer to her perfectly good question as to why this so-called runoff ONLY AFFECTED YOUNG WOMEN). Maybe it's supposed to be some kind of transference thing or whatever but again, they aren't giving her any dialogue or moments to support that. 

(As far as Penelope goes, why is she so eager to open a brothel when she's already running one? I guess space and rent could be issues. Also, isn't The Five Seasons supposed to be swanky? Why are they okay with this low-rent illegal shit going down? Also, I buy the idea of her poisoning her husband then hauling his deadweight body up atop a syrup barrel and setting up that whole hanging scenario about as much as I do the entire Tallboy thing.)

Speaking of hauling deadweight, hey Josie! You are stronger than you look, girl, since you apparently carried a drunk and belligerent Archie all the way home, upstairs to his bathroom, and dunked him in his tub while wearing a full length dress and heels! In the middle of the day! Plus fixing him nourishing drinks and giving him tough love and such, even though, again, it seems like these two have barely even spoken since he got back. She did help break him out of Juvie, but so did Kevin and he was nowhere to be found. Must be boxing with his dad or something.

Is it summer? Is school still even in session? Is there still even a school? Why is it pouring rain during Jughead's scenes and at no other time? How are the characters teleporting all over town? Why is Cheryl okay with her horrible mother in her house at the wake? Why does Toni still even exist? Why is Reggie underage bartending and serving drinks to another minor? SO MANY QUESTIONS. But, it's Riverdale.

I’m the one who made the typo, oops! But yeah everything you wrote is kind of how I feel. I get that Riverdale is off the walls crazy but I found all of tonight’s episode really bad with the crazy. I don’t understand any characters motivations with any of their choices. And I gusss I’m supposed to be like it’s what Riverdale is but actually no... it isn’t. This season was doing so well and this episode just reminded me of last seasons hot mess.

Also yeah all your why’s are mhm why’s for the most part. Why are all the teens suddenly all about their terrible parents and families? Like huh? I know hiram got shot but all of a sudden Veronica is needing to find out who shot him despite you know hating him for half of this season, why is cheryl suddenly all about her dead uncle who threw her nana down the stairs and was probably about to hurt Cheryl too? In fact who was also probably part of sending her to gay conversion camp? I mean seriously. I know I’m supposed to watch with suspended disbelief but it’s not good. Why is betty confiding in Hal? And why is Jughead doing a voice over doing that Hal is the only one she can talk to?!? Bughead has some sweet moments, their kiss and their scenes at the secret sex house and him typing “my girlfriend Betty Cooper” only for them to ruin it with that voice over and scene of her talking To hal. Seriously show wtf? That makes me nervous and I think that’s the intent. I know from what they show us of Bughead they are good but I feel like that moment implies something else too. And again this show keeps making Betty a doormat. 

As I said this episode kept me looking at the clock waiting for it to be over. I know I’m alone in that but I don’t care.

Edited by WhosThatGirl
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Veronica is so low class, "Smither's get your bus driver cap." Doesn't she know it's a chauffeur's cap.

I guess it's time for Archie to start dating Josie.

I am surprised that Cheryl's mom comes home at all considering that Cheryl and Toni are shacking up, she could just stay at the Five Seasons. I am surprised Cheryl's mom hate's lesbians so much considering how much she hates men and she runs a dominatrix/brothel. I am sure one of her clients must have asked for a session with more than one woman.

They didn't say where they got the fake Minetta body. Maybe from the coroner, he probably made enough to retire on this week.

Does Hal know about the person that Chip and Alice killed? Edgar Evernever certainly does.

I guess Hal really did kill Chip.

Archie has plans to become a boxer, his name can be Archie "Red Bull" Andrews.

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I don’t think Fake Chic is really dead. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s actually working for Hal on the outside. Also Hal probably does know about the guy Alice and Fake chic killed. And yeah the cult does know, Evelyn and the cult group told betty that Alice shared that secret. Along with Bettys webcamming.

Also Penelope shouldn’t even be at the mansion, Cheryl kicked her out, I don’t get any of Cheryl’s behavior this episode or Toni “this has already been a long day..” again I had to point out Cheryl hated her uncle! It shouldn’t be that rough of a day.

im sorry no character made sense this episode. I feel like this was a odd out of place episode. I mean.. I get that we needed an answer to who shot Hiram but we didn’t even need Hiram to be shot, it was obvious they weren’t going to kill him off so this really did nothing? And Archie and Hiram made up, I guess? But did they? Hiram is still doing evil evil things and he and Archie will probably battle some more in future seasons. Also there are more pressing matters than anything that happened in this episode, yet g and g stuff, it definitely wasn’t tall boy, whatever the hell the farm is about, all more interesting than what happened tonight.

And I guess we got some answers in claduis and why people are getting seizures? Although like someone else pointed out did we? Kind of seems like  we just got more questions on that too. Also all these scenes seemed to do was push more Betty and Hal scenes.. like no thanks.

The only plot that moved somewhat forward was Archie and even so.. I’m sort of glad we aren’t dwelling in dark Archie for a long time. I was worried they would make that go for a few episodes. 

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Damn, Hermione. That confrontation with Jug was kind of ... epic? Ooh, when she got thisclose to his face and fixed his collar!? What is happening. Looks like this is our new Archie vs. Hiram, and yes, I’m intrigued. 

Speaking of the latter, the handshake, Archie telling Ronnie he doesn’t hate her father, and Ronnie telling him she’s there for him as a friend all seemed like it was the show’s way to kind of quickly wrap of this first half of the season. At least for the time being. It isn’t coincidental that it’s easily allowing both Archie and Ronnie to move on to some other story options without having to linger on feelings of the past. And not that I mind at all. Personally, I think Archie is better off away from her.

Josie was such a sweetheart with Archie. I like that they acknowledged that they haven’t really spoken a lot, but she still considers him a friend (what are you doing, Reggie!? Lawd) and was willing to help him pull his shit together, no questions asked. The cold shower was A+. And, of course, Archie wanting to jam with her will take us back to his music. It was nice seeing such a  normal interaction in this episode, and a breath of fresh air to see Archie smiling. Also, I’m convinced KJ can look in love with anyone. I think it’s his eyes, lol. He can’t help it.

Jug had some great scenes with Ronnie. Cole and Cami have a nice connection. I always enjoy their scenes. There’s always a little something you can’t quite figure out with these two characters—some mystery? Like, it’s almost like we still don’t know how these two feel about each other (as people, not romantically). It’s interesting.

The writers need to re-evaluate what they’re trying to do with Betty. I absolutely think that they’re making her way too immersed in investigating that she no longer has real, solid relationships with those around her. Her friendships, her relationships are brushed to the side for this larger arching (bad) story. Riverdale is becoming what usually happens to a show in its third year: plots become >>>>> character relationships. 

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Wow, what an episode!

It was great, kept my breath until the very end.

I think "The Blue Dahlia" homage was right up Riverdale's alley, all the loose ends presented this season nicely came together...

Loved the scenes between Archie and Hiram.

And Hermione and Jughead - both these actors fit right into this film-noirish background :)

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Oh damnnit, smughead! How I’ve missed them! Him playing detective was sweet!! Adorable, how did they not get all horny when they went to the sex club?! And kudos for Jughead playing around with the not—faberge egg?! BDE! I miss those type of scenes! Although the ending with Hermione, how can it not get worse for him? How can he can get out of it? Spiraling!

Funny how a mayor and a madame would easily let herself be questioned by some wanna-be teen detective! 

Archie vs the world? Ple-a-se!! While seeing Archie and josie bonding, the rest is just dull. I do understand he’s doing through a horrible period, come on… It so remind of the first season when he had his thing with grundy and the guitar while the rest were all about Jason… Oh FFS! Why the hell do you take a deal with Hiram?!? The.guy.is.evil.

Ooh! Fred finally being a dad? Nice!

Hi Cheryl! Bye Cheryl!

How can they keep a body for so long?

Veronica playing mob-daughter and taking over? Seriously? That is so boring and utterly non-suprising? Why the sudden love for daddy and his illegal dealings! Oh smithers!!! I’m glad  he’s back by veronica’s side. I liked what she did in the end though but I SOthink she’s iffy, I do not trust that girl. It’s like she’ getting close to standing by her dad’s side.

Dammit, secret sex clubs in Riverdale? AT the Five Season?!!? WHAT?!?! 

Hermione, of course, she would set up FP?! And Minetta not being dead at all?!? What! There’s something so sweet of seeing the parents (not fred) screw around one another! THe whole FP and Hermione thing was just confusing as the water reports and all that. Confusing but delicious to see!

And the whole betty and Hal thing. What are they up to? Is he playing her? Is she desperate from some parental guidance (that FFS doesn’t seem to exist in Riverdale).

Is there anything pure in Riverdale anymore?!?!

Great episode but so confusing, i imean, calm the heck down Riverdale!

 Jughead as smughead >>> adorable!

10 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

A secret sex club in Riverdale is literally the least shocking revelation ever. 

Am I the only that was hoping Bughead would make a comment about the sex club like: "Hey, want to try some of this stuff later on?"

No? 

Oh well... 

lol

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4 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

Damn, Hermione. That confrontation with Jug was kind of ... epic? Ooh, when she got thisclose to his face and fixed his collar!? What is happening. Looks like this is our new Archie vs. Hiram, and yes, I’m intrigued. 

Speaking of the latter, the handshake, Archie telling Ronnie he doesn’t hate her father, and Ronnie telling him she’s there for him as a friend all seemed like it was the show’s way to kind of quickly wrap of this first half of the season. At least for the time being. It isn’t coincidental that it’s easily allowing both Archie and Ronnie to move on to some other story options without having to linger on feelings of the past. And not that I mind at all. Personally, I think Archie is better off away from her.

Josie was such a sweetheart with Archie. I like that they acknowledged that they haven’t really spoken a lot, but she still considers him a friend (what are you doing, Reggie!? Lawd) and was willing to help him pull his shit together, no questions asked. The cold shower was A+. And, of course, Archie wanting to jam with her will take us back to his music. It was nice seeing such a  normal interaction in this episode, and a breath of fresh air to see Archie smiling. Also, I’m convinced KJ can look in love with anyone. I think it’s his eyes, lol. He can’t help it.

Jug had some great scenes with Ronnie. Cole and Cami have a nice connection. I always enjoy their scenes. There’s always a little something you can’t quite figure out with these two characters—some mystery? Like, it’s almost like we still don’t know how these two feel about each other (as people, not romantically). It’s interesting.

The writers need to re-evaluate what they’re trying to do with Betty. I absolutely think that they’re making her way too immersed in investigating that she no longer has real, solid relationships with those around her. Her friendships, her relationships are brushed to the side for this larger arching (bad) story. Riverdale is becoming what usually happens to a show in its third year: plots become >>>>> character relationships. 

I feel like Riverdale has this problem last year though, none of the relationships last season made any sense. That’s why I find this episode terrible. They were doing so well and then they ruined it with this episode.

And again I fully expected everyone else’s comments about loving this episode, I really really didn’t like it at all. It really felt like this was a filler episode in a way because if I’m being real, it didn’t really move any plots forward with the exception of archies story. If anything it just added more questions and conflicting answers to the plot.

Thh only way they can fix the Betty thing is if she is playing Hal. But sadly I don’t think she is. But br side of this it is making everything else about her look bad. It’s making me question Bugheads great relationship especially because as I keep saying they’re now even having Jughead do a voice over of how Hal is the only one Betty can talk to. That speaks volumes. And it erases all the cute moments they had in this episode that showed me they were a great relationship.

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I just... I... if you're hanging a person, the past tense is always "hanged" not "hung."

Figures FP would be such an awful sheriff that he doesn't notice the dead body under the bed while he's asking people what happened to Tall Boy, but I'm also kind of surprised that he wasn't... like, crooked in the Serpents' direction? That's what I expected of him as Sheriff. I didn't think they'd have to hide their crimes from him.

Does Veronica's non-alcoholic speakeasy serve alcohol now? I wasn't paying attention.

11 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

A secret sex club in Riverdale is literally the least shocking revelation ever. And what town is Jughead talking about when he writes about how Riverdale used to be some innocent, peaceful little town? I think its been very well established that Riverdale has been Crazyville since day one. 

Is it a sex club, or a brothel, or a dungeon? Because those things are different, Riverdale.

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I think I may be tapping out of this show. I didn't hate the last episode, but they wrapped up that arc and I just don't see them going anywhere that I particularly want to see. It's going to be just more random hook-ups and convoluted plots. 

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29 minutes ago, SourK said:

I just... I... if you're hanging a person, the past tense is always "hanged" not "hung."

Figures FP would be such an awful sheriff that he doesn't notice the dead body under the bed while he's asking people what happened to Tall Boy, but I'm also kind of surprised that he wasn't... like, crooked in the Serpents' direction? That's what I expected of him as Sheriff. I didn't think they'd have to hide their crimes from him.

Does Veronica's non-alcoholic speakeasy serve alcohol now? I wasn't paying attention.

Is it a sex club, or a brothel, or a dungeon? Because those things are different, Riverdale.

I really hated FP acting all high and mighty this episode. Then again I don’t like the FP character and given that they’ve seemed to reach a point in the series, it makes sense that FP as a Sheriff would sell out his own people too if he has to. 

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Quote

Of course, Ronnie's problem is not only one of her dad, but her mother, who this week decided to do a lot of shit and end up right back where she started but neck-deep in debt to some mysterious buyer or other (HELLO EDGAR WE KNOW IT'S YOU.) I honestly couldn't work out if Hiram was boning the water studies woman, or if Hermione just thought she was, or was deliberately throwing Jug off or what. Plus she now has to get rid of Minetta's corpse AGAIN. She's like Veronica 1.0 or something--all her schemes just keep exploding in her face like so many Fizzle Rocks. 

I think that's what I like about Veronica. She's a cocktail of Lucille Ball and Erica Kane.  She differs from her parents in the sense that there is a chance, she might evolve into a decent person.  But I think Hiram and Hermione have a vision of who their daughter will be one day and I don't think it's someone that will be good for the people of Riverdale.

Someone on another board pointed out, Hermione would have gotten away with everything if it weren't for Veronica.  FP didn't have a clue that he was the built in fall guy.  Hiram would have been dead, FP taken the fall and Hermione makes off with a lot of money.   Veronica a$$ over elbowed her way into foiling the whole thing by getting Jughead involved.

Quote

Veronica playing mob-daughter and taking over? Seriously? That is so boring and utterly non-suprising? Why the sudden love for daddy and his illegal dealings! Oh smithers!!! I’m glad  he’s back by veronica’s side. I liked what she did in the end though but I SOthink she’s iffy, I do not trust that girl. It’s like she’ getting close to standing by her dad’s side.

I thought her idea to dismantle Hiram's operation while he was in no position to stop her was smart.  But she didn't think it through.   I also think Veronica tends to underestimate her Mother.  Hiram, Hermione, Nick St, Claire. Elio.  She tends to gravitate towards those who are dark.  The evil doers tend to have an interest in her for one reason or another, so she is usually in the eye of whatever hurricane the villains are causing (with no real risk to herself) but one day, she's going to be in the eye of the hurricane and the eye is going to close.  It could lead to a sticky end for Miss. Lodge.

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1 hour ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Thh only way they can fix the Betty thing is if she is playing Hal. But sadly I don’t think she is. But br side of this it is making everything else about her look bad. It’s making me question Bugheads great relationship especially because as I keep saying they’re now even having Jughead do a voice over of how Hal is the only one Betty can talk to. That speaks volumes. And it erases all the cute moments they had in this episode that showed me they were a great relationship.

Riverdale is notorious for writing for plot, rather than for character. That's the reason why I only watched the first half of last season. This fact will never change so I've resigned myself to the fact that things are never going to make total sense. 

They obviously brought back Hal for him to escape at some point with the help of Betty (accidentally, most likely). It's Betty's turn to be dumb, I guess. Or she'll use Hal to stop her mother and the Farm. By the way, they still haven't explained anything about the Farm, other than it's a cult and that the leader's name is Edgar. I do enjoy the scenes with Lili and Lochlyn so that does help with me not completely hating it. Again, I cannot take this show seriously because the show doesn't take itself seriously. 

2 hours ago, PeekaBoo said:

Archie vs the world? Ple-a-se!! While seeing Archie and josie bonding, the rest is just dull. I do understand he’s doing through a horrible period, come on… It so remind of the first season when he had his thing with grundy and the guitar while the rest were all about Jason… Oh FFS! Why the hell do you take a deal with Hiram?!? The.guy.is.evil.

It's funny because you'd think Veronica would be all into Dark Archie, since she's into bad boys. I do think Archie's plot has a lot of potential. He's gone through some serious trauma for at least six months and that should affect him. It is weird for Archie to continue to be isolated from the main plot since he wasn't even in Riverdale for seven out of ten episodes, but at least he's getting Josie in a main plot at last. For a main character, they've wasted people like Josie, Toni, and Reggie. Although Reggie's plot makes me hate him, Toni's relationship with Cheryl (since I dislike Cheryl) makes he hate her, and Josie's main story is singing for a scene and then disappearing for two or three episodes. 

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Ugh. Maybe I’m alone but I’m not looking forward to the inevitable Hal escapes and Betty sort of helped. Again, why are they making Betty look stupid and again I have to say despite the show telling us that’s a betty and Jughead are such a strong couple when he clearly doesn’t know anything about this. As I said I know there were other moments that happened to Betty and Jughead this season and we were then told that they talked about it off screen but something tells me that Jughead wouldn’t be all cool with her talking to her psycho father on the daily. Maybe I’m wrong but I just don’t see that being a thing. Also I don’t enjoy the scenes, it makes me oddly uncomfortable because I remember what those notes and phone calls were. Granted when it started it was clear Hal was not supposed to be the black Hood but he is and those letters were beyond creepy as something ranging on uncomfortable when it’s a father sending it to his daughter. Again the show asking me to ignore things is ridiculous so I can’t like any of their scenes. 

It’s just dumb. And the season was actually doing alright for the most part. But again I have to bring up, like season two, most of the characters aren’t engaging with each other. That’s a problem. Sure Betty and Jughead grt a scene together but now they are barley interacting really. I get that they hVe their own things and lives but again like last season it seems like they are barley even talking to each other.

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34 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Ugh. Maybe I’m alone but I’m not looking forward to the inevitable Hal escapes and Betty sort of helped. Again, why are they making Betty look stupid and again I have to say despite the show telling us that’s a betty and Jughead are such a strong couple when he clearly doesn’t know anything about this. As I said I know there were other moments that happened to Betty and Jughead this season and we were then told that they talked about it off screen but something tells me that Jughead wouldn’t be all cool with her talking to her psycho father on the daily. Maybe I’m wrong but I just don’t see that being a thing. Also I don’t enjoy the scenes, it makes me oddly uncomfortable because I remember what those notes and phone calls were. Granted when it started it was clear Hal was not supposed to be the black Hood but he is and those letters were beyond creepy as something ranging on uncomfortable when it’s a father sending it to his daughter. 

You start to wonder whether Jughead would actually be ok with betty helping hal get out? Seeing how the show is and all that? 

But when you mention the phone calls and the letters she got last season, its hard to forget how tormented betty was at that point .

Eugh. 

Its all this craziness that just keeps continuing that isn't making me enjoy the show as I once did. I hope it won't be the shows downfall. 

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It wouldn’t bother me so much if I knew what the show was trying to tell me. I want to say that they are showing Bughead being healthy and good and they are but then they ruin it by having Betty seeking Hal our and then having Jughead acknowledge it by having a voice over about it and the voice over includes him saying Hal is the only person she can talk to? What? This as I have been saying erodes all of the great Bughead moments. Especially considering Hal broke them up! 

Not to mention Jughead has Alice helping him and FP our. Huh? Again Alice is getting off scot free with everything she’s been doing. But Jughead should hate her. He shouldn’t go to her for any kind of help. I mean maybe he isn’t aware that she’s the one who sent Betty away to the sisters, maybe he doesn’t, at thi point I’m thinking Betty doesn’t remember who sent her there either. Maybe the fizzle rocks cause memory loss as well as seizures but does he also not know about Alice giving away bettys college funds to the farm? Again. I adore Bughead but it’s things like this that make me think they are just as bad as they were last season, they apparently aren’t talking to each other because of they were, Jughead would not even gave Alice the time of day even if he needed her for a favor. Sorry.. just facts.

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Also, some other things I wanted to point out that made me laugh.

Fred got to be a normal dad with his moody teenager! Granted, Archie's moodiness and rebellion is because he was in juvie for a few months and then on the run for at least two more months, so he has a little bit more to deal with. But hey, at least it's not something crazier like "I took my daughter's college fund and put it all toward my cult and now she's going to meet with her psychotic murderous father!". But at least the Fred/Archie scene felt somewhat normal. 

I did love that Veronica found Archie at the hospital and was grateful that he was there to save Hiram's life without knowing that Archie was there and a second away from killing Hiram himself. Of course, Veronica may not be so pleased if/when she finds out. Or she'll get over it in two seconds despite her behaviour about her father in the last couple of episodes. Personally, I'm still rooting for Archie to kill Hiram in the finale. If they're going Dark Archie, let them go all the way! What I have enjoyed is that they're not shying away from showing Archie actually willing to kill Hiram. First, with the scene of him and Jughead in the barn and how determined he looked to kill Hiram, to the odd dream sequence where he killed Hiram, to this episode where they clearly showed him starting to pull the trigger. I had my doubts that Archie would ever actually try to kill Hiram, but they proved me wrong....well, until they eventually backtrack to make Archie unwilling once again. I like this Archie way better so I'm hoping this show doesn't have Archie revert back to old Archie, who was too dumb and too scared to really do anything. 

Apparently, I have resigned myself to the fact that I am finally an Archie fan. Usually, I don't like the typical leads of shows, and I wasn't a fan of Archie...until this season. I guess a little bit last season as well, but more this season. 

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5 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Also, some other things I wanted to point out that made me laugh.

Fred got to be a normal dad with his moody teenager! Granted, Archie's moodiness and rebellion is because he was in juvie for a few months and then on the run for at least two more months, so he has a little bit more to deal with. But hey, at least it's not something crazier like "I took my daughter's college fund and put it all toward my cult and now she's going to meet with her psychotic murderous father!". But at least the Fred/Archie scene felt somewhat normal. 

I did love that Veronica found Archie at the hospital and was grateful that he was there to save Hiram's life without knowing that Archie was there and a second away from killing Hiram himself. Of course, Veronica may not be so pleased if/when she finds out. Or she'll get over it in two seconds despite her behaviour about her father in the last couple of episodes. Personally, I'm still rooting for Archie to kill Hiram in the finale. If they're going Dark Archie, let them go all the way! What I have enjoyed is that they're not shying away from showing Archie actually willing to kill Hiram. First, with the scene of him and Jughead in the barn and how determined he looked to kill Hiram, to the odd dream sequence where he killed Hiram, to this episode where they clearly showed him starting to pull the trigger. I had my doubts that Archie would ever actually try to kill Hiram, but they proved me wrong....well, until they eventually backtrack to make Archie unwilling once again. I like this Archie way better so I'm hoping this show doesn't have Archie revert back to old Archie, who was too dumb and too scared to really do anything. 

Apparently, I have resigned myself to the fact that I am finally an Archie fan. Usually, I don't like the typical leads of shows, and I wasn't a fan of Archie...until this season. I guess a little bit last season as well, but more this season. 

Same. I only liked Archie this season. I’m sure that will change though later on this season. I actually thought he was insufferable last season and it always bothers me that everyone claims he was the only one to stand up to Hiram. Uh well he didn’t even really do that until the last episode last season and Jughead was the one standing against Hiram but I digress. 

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My issue with how they’re writing Betty is more than just her relationship with Jughead, although that’s also a problem. The only thing they’ve shown on-screen is, “yep! They’re still dating, guys!” Betty does not talk to Jug (and vice versa) about anything other than whatever they’re investigating. The show doesn’t know how to balance plot vs. character. I mean, look at Betty and Veronica. Ronnie had an emotional breakup over the phone with Archie, then started up with Reggie, then reunited with Archie for two seconds, then accused Archie of attempted murder, then broke up with Archie again, etc. Why haven’t the writers thought it would make sense for Betty and Ronnie to TALK about these things? There’s no emotional connection between these friends anymore. 

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1 minute ago, HeatLifer said:

My issue with how they’re writing Betty is more than just her relationship with Jughead, although that’s also a problem. The only thing they’ve shown on-screen is, “yep! They’re still dating, guys!” Betty does not talk to Jug (and vice versa) about anything other than whatever they’re investigating. The show doesn’t know how to balance plot vs. character. I mean, look at Betty and Veronica. Ronnie had an emotional breakup over the phone with Archie, then started up with Reggie, then reunited with Archie for two seconds, then accused Archie of attempted murder, then broke up with Archie again, etc. Why haven’t the writers thought it would make sense for Betty and Ronnie to TALK about these things? There’s no emotional connection between these friends anymore. 

Well honestly there’s no emotional connection with any characters if were being honest. Except for Fred and Archie.

Also Archie and Betty are barley talking. Yeah they had a brief moment last episode but not really. EVEN  Jughead and Archie are distant. 

And Alice and Betty are in a stalemate of not talking about anything. Like seriously, did the fizzle rocks erase her memory of Alice sending her away? Same with FP and Jughead, not to mention all the other characters. No one talks about anything. Again like somehow penalope is allowed back in her home and Cheryl is hosting Claudius funeral? Why? There’s no emotional connection with anyone. 

I think this season is now running into the problems last season had, no one talks to anyone and everyone is just running around. 

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8 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Well honestly there’s no emotional connection with any characters if were being honest. Except for Fred and Archie.

Oh, you could absolutely apply this to a number of characters. But it’s more noticeable with Betty, IMO, bc her role on the show at this point is basically lead investigatior. That’s all she does. Whereas at least with Archie, for example, it makes sense that he hasn’t been able to have connections because, 1) He was locked up for some time, and 2) It actually fits with his personal story to be secluded, although they have started the seeds of a connection with Josie, so even that will change.

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11 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

Oh, you could absolutely apply this to a number of characters. But it’s more noticeable with Betty, IMO, bc her role on the show at this point is basically lead investigatior. That’s all she does. Whereas at least with Archie, for example, it makes sense that he hasn’t been able to have connections because, 1) He was locked up for some time, and 2) It actually fits with his personal story to be secluded, although they have started the seeds of a connection with Josie, so even that will change.

Yeah, I guess and I agree, Betty isn’t talking to anyone on the show. No one in her friendships, Archie or Veronica or Kevin. Not Jughead. So yeah you are right. That said I still stand by that no one is talking to anyone on this show but yet.. things are happening without us getting reasons to why they happened. 

It takes me out of this show. 

And yeah as a Bughead shipper it doesn’t make me feel like they are doing good. That said, because of what they are doing to Betty, it doesn’t make me think she’s doing good with anyone romantically or otherwise. So yeah you are right, they are excluding Betty and again I don’t know why? With Archie this season it made sense sort of and now that he’s back in the fold at least they have him engaging with people again, his dad and Josie bow(although again they should really hopefully engage him with the others, maybe they will again start that) with Betty I don’t know if the intention is to exclude her.. I don’t think they are? Or the writing is just so bad. They want to keep her and jughead as a couple but not talk about anything and have her running off to Hal to share secrets. And he’s the only one who understands her and who she can. Talk to? Again what the hell? It’s also odd that as someone who follows many Bughead fan accounts on social media(they get good content and spoiler stuff) no one picked up on that being a problem. They all just seem to like that scene Bughead had and the kiss. Like no.. Jugheads voice over abot Betty and Hal means a lot. Wasn’t that an issue last season? When Betty was dealing with all the black Hood stuff.. ? It doesn’t make sense why they are repeating this.

Edited by WhosThatGirl
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26 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

They all just seem to like that scene Bughead had and the kiss.

I don’t think most fans really care about specific content, tbh. As long as they’re together, that’s enough for them, which is their prerogative, I guess.

26 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

with Betty I don’t know if the intention is to exclude her.. I don’t think they are? Or the writing is just so bad.

I think this show has gotten so caught up in portraying Betty as this Private Investigator, that it’s not intentional excluding, but they just don’t see her as anything else. That’s her “role” now and it’s a disservice to the actress, IMO. It’s all becoming really one-note.

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13 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

I don’t think most fans really care about specific content, tbh. As long as they’re together, that’s enough for them, which is their prerogative, I guess.

I think this show has gotten so caught up in portraying Betty as this Private Investigator, that it’s not intentional excluding, but they just don’t see her as anything else. That’s her “role” now and it’s a disservice to the actress, IMO. It’s all becoming really one-note.

 

Yeah, I agree. It’s also making none of her relationships believable. I mean I talk endlessly about Jughead.  It you mentioned the friendship aspect, her lackluster reactions to Veronica and even Archie, like she helped him dye his hair back and that’s about it. And yeah the show keeps Ignoring her issues with Alice until they see fit to bring in a new one, forgetting the last issues that were pretty pressing- like sending her away, no one seems to care because Alice took her college money which this episode everyone seems to forget about it because even Jughead is asking Alice for help so whatever. Betty has no connection to anyone on this show. And sadly I think this means that Betty isn’t playing Hal at all. 

But no.. the voice over really bothers me. And it breaks my little shipper heart. 

And again it’s bad writing. They were doing pretty well with Betty and not keeping her apart from people at the start of the season. She was doing her own thing but still involved with everyone for the most part. Now they reintroduce her dad and essentially are bringing her back to her season 2 storyline. When she was dealing with the black Hood and excluding herself. Sorry it just seems like they didn’t learn a damn thing from last season. And they always do it to Betty/LR.

Even Archie for being excluded from the other characters still found a way to be a part of the story and still involved in some way. Betty seems off on her own. 

Edited by WhosThatGirl
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33 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

And again it’s bad writing. They were doing pretty well with Betty and not keeping her apart from people at the start of the season. She was doing her own thing but still involved with everyone for the most part. Now they reintroduce her dad and essentially are bringing her back to her season 2 storyline. When she was dealing with the black Hood and excluding herself. Sorry it just seems like they didn’t learn a damn thing from last season. And they always do it to Betty/LR.

Yeah, and it becomes particularly ridiculous when you start listing out things Betty hasn’t been able to discuss. She should have spoken about Hal and Alice with Jug, or even Archie. She should be talking to Veronica and Archie about their breakup, she should be discussing Reggie with Veronica. She’s no longer with her friends, while everyone else is at least with another one of their peers. 

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3 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

Yeah, and it becomes particularly ridiculous when you start listing out things Betty hasn’t been able to discuss. She should have spoken about Hal and Alice with Jug, or even Archie. She should be talking to Veronica and Archie about their breakup, she should be discussing Reggie with Veronica. She’s no longer with her friends, while everyone else is at least with another one of their peers. 

Yeah but I think we’re supposed to ignore that because it’s this show but it’s definitely making as you said none of her relationships believable. I don’t believe she’s close with anyone right now. Definitely not Jughead or archie. And for sure not veronica.

And seriously lets just forget about the sisters of quiet mercy thing Alice did because the show sure as hell wants us to forget it, (like again show.. why did you even do it if you were never going to acknowledge what Alice did?) but I guess betty hasn’t told Jughead about her college fund? Or veronica?  I mean I understand why she hasn’t told Archie, he’s been on his own dealing with other stuff but I thought for sure Jughead would know. Jughead should know. I’m thinking he doesn’t. Why would he go to Alice for help in the last episode if he knew?  Then again who the hell even knows anymore. Maybe he does know and he doesn’t care. Because no one else cares about any of the bad things people do anymore. At this rate I’m fully expecting to find out Jughead has been driving Betty to meet her psycho father.

Again I really hated this episode. I get that this show is crazy and filled inconsistencies but this episode just showed me all the problems these inconsistencies cause actually. Also I feel like sadly most everything is fan service now. I love Bughead. I liked their scenes. They were cute and adorable but I liked them much better in the first half of this season when they were both cute and adorable and actually seemed to be talking about things. What the show is showing me now isn’t that at all. It’s just them having a 1.5 second scene and a kiss and that’s it. 

Edited by WhosThatGirl

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Ugh. Maybe I’m alone but I’m not looking forward to the inevitable Hal escapes and Betty sort of helped.

If I had to guess, I'd say something along the lines of:

Penelope helps Hal escape, and he promptly kills her and frames Betty. (Because, again, Betty was pretty openly accusing Nell of being a serial killer all on her own, even though, again, there is absolutely no real reason why Betty would care about this at all.) Hal says he'll help Betty flee and they can be a father/daughter serial killer avenging duo or something ,and Jughead has to help prove her innocence and get Hal shot seventeen times in the town square on camera so this crap can finally be over with. He will be assisted by fake Chic, who was Hal's protege after his fleeing through the woods bit but Hal betrays him so Fake Chic betrays him right back. 

Alice, in the meantime, will try to recruit the Farm cultees to help capture Hal, only to find out that Edgar is Hal's fraternal twin and end up killing him too. He'll try to rat out her own murder (remember that?) but they will pin it on Dead Hal and the season will end happily, with Josie and Cheryl singing a duet at the speakeasy while Ronnie wears fifty thousand dollars worth of couture as she issues Pops his fourth IOU in lieu of a paycheck and pours shots for all the teenagers and Reggie dances the Charleston with Nana, wearing matching plaids.

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1 minute ago, Snookums said:

If I had to guess, I'd say something along the lines of:

Penelope helps Hal escape, and he promptly kills her and frames Betty. (Because, again, Betty was pretty openly accusing Nell of being a serial killer all on her own, even though, again, there is absolutely no real reason why Betty would care about this at all.) Hal says he'll help Betty flee and they can be a father/daughter serial killer avenging duo or something ,and Jughead has to help prove her innocence and get Hal shot seventeen times in the town square on camera so this crap can finally be over with. He will be assisted by fake Chic, who was Hal's protege after his fleeing through the woods bit but Hal betrays him so Fake Chic betrays him right back. 

Alice, in the meantime, will try to recruit the Farm cultees to help capture Hal, only to find out that Edgar is Hal's fraternal twin and end up killing him too. He'll try to rat out her own murder (remember that?) but they will pin it on Dead Hal and the season will end happily, with Josie and Cheryl singing a duet at the speakeasy while Ronnie wears fifty thousand dollars worth of couture as she issues Pops his fourth IOU in lieu of a paycheck and pours shots for all the teenagers and Reggie dances the Charleston with Nana, wearing matching plaids.

That sounds exactly the terrible ending that will happen this season. 

Its stuff like this that really drives this into hate watching. I’m not there yet but it’s happening shortly.

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23 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Before I start, I have to say: One of the things being posted about on social media for photos for this episode was “who shot Hiram?” As if it’s a big mystery and to be honest, I don’t really care?

Lol, I was thinking the same thing.  Veronica didn't even care to know who shot him, and she paid Jughead to find out.

It's funny to watch Veronica, a high school student, collecting protection money for her crime family.  And it's funny to see Hermione answering questions from Jughead, a high school student who fancies himself a detective from the '20s.

This episode mainly served to feed my Archie hate.  He begs a job from his father, then gets on the job and tries to get into a fight with the foreman because he wants him to take a mandatory break?  What an ungrateful jackass.

This episode did serve to clear up that Veronica's bar DOES serve alcohol, however. 

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I think Veronica just started saving alcohol fairly recently though. I think the episode before this one? Jughead made a  voice over remark about the speakeasy thriving during the town lockdown and it sort of made me think that Veronica started selling real drinks during that time.

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I won't ever go as far as to say that any of the acting on this show is award worthy, but when I see scenes like Camilia Mendes actually having to say "Forget it, Jughead: It's Riverdale!" with a straight face, I'm reminded that everyone here are pros for simply not cracking up every time they have to say their various silly lines.  Well done, guys!

What in the hell are you blabbing about Riverdale use to be a peaceful town, Jughead?!  It feels like this town has always been turmoil.  I'm not even talking about what we, the audience, have seen, but all the way back to the Blossom/Cooper feud decades ago.  This town has always been a land of crazies!

So, the shooter itself was FP because of how Hiram's actions led to Jughead getting his ass kicked those episodes ago and Hermione for... well, take your pick over all the awful stuff Hiram has done to her, who was planning on having FP take the fall for everything.  But if wasn't for that meddling Jughead!  I guess this won't be the last time those two face-off.

And while Jughead vs. Hermione is ramping up, Archie vs. Hiram ramps down?

Hi, Minetta!  Bye, Minetta!

Oh, hey, Kelly Ripa is here to play Hiram's mistress and serve as a meta reference since she and Mark Consuelos are married in real life.  Cool?

Betty continues to open up more to Hal-able Lector, which is probably going to end badly for her.

Penelope is not only responsible for Claudis' death, but actually killed Clifford himself this entire time.  Oh, and she also is running a brothel.  Honestly, that last part is pretty normal for Riverdale.

Hey, Josie gets to do things!  Like be supportive to Archie and promise to "rock out" with him.  Progress?  Meanwhile, I'm starting to think Veronica is going to get Reggie hurt or worse.

K.J. Apa has generally been improving each season, but his rage/drunk acting wasn't his best.

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Yeah, the lines this season have been especially bad and cringe like. I mean maybe they’ve always been this bad but this season it’s really apparent. Starting with Betty in the season opener(“the serpent queen is a warrior queen!”) I heard even Lili didn’t like that line, anytime they’ve made Veronica speak about Archie and his physique, Cheryl with Toni and her line of being coo coo bananas or whatever the hell and the exchanges between Veronica and Jughead this episode, yeah I get it was the noir episode but.. I do wonder too how they keep straight faces with their lines sometimes. 

Edited by WhosThatGirl

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On 1/31/2019 at 12:10 PM, WhosThatGirl said:

It wouldn’t bother me so much if I knew what the show was trying to tell me. I want to say that they are showing Bughead being healthy and good and they are but then they ruin it by having Betty seeking Hal our and then having Jughead acknowledge it by having a voice over about it and the voice over includes him saying Hal is the only person she can talk to? What?

I think this is an important point about the voiceover. They've made Jughead the narrator of this show, but it's unclear whether he's narrating it as it happens or from some point in the future. If he's narrating it as it happens, then, gosh, he knows a lot of stuff.

(This episode confused things more because they made him a hard boiled detective and used the narration to fuel that. Which, by the by, I wouldn't actually mind if Riverdale were more like Community and made stylized episodes around specific themes in popular entertainment, if it happened more consistently).

16 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Penelope is not only responsible for Claudis' death, but actually killed Clifford himself this entire time.

I like that they circled back to this. The original impression I got, way back in season one, was that the Blossom women killed him so that he wouldn't destroy the family with his crimes. This explanation leaves Cheryl out of it a little unexpectedly -- like, where was she when the actual murder happened? -- but at least they closed the loop on it.

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28 minutes ago, SourK said:

I think this is an important point about the voiceover. They've made Jughead the narrator of this show, but it's unclear whether he's narrating it as it happens or from some point in the future. If he's narrating it as it happens, then, gosh, he knows a lot of stuff.

(This episode confused things more because they made him a hard boiled detective and used the narration to fuel that. Which, by the by, I wouldn't actually mind if Riverdale were more like Community and made stylized episodes around specific themes in popular entertainment, if it happened more consistently).

I like that they circled back to this. The original impression I got, way back in season one, was that the Blossom women killed him so that he wouldn't destroy the family with his crimes. This explanation leaves Cheryl out of it a little unexpectedly -- like, where was she when the actual murder happened? -- but at least they closed the loop on it.

Yeah, you’re right, I don’t know what Jugheads narration is either and I agree it’s a problem. Either he already knows things, which means he’s physic or people tell him everything they did or are doing(he narrates things he shouldn’t know about because he’s not in the scene) or it’s for a future where he’s writing it for something else. I think it has to be the second now because I don’t think everyone is sharing their secrets with him in the present. 

Or make as some other people have wondered when the show ends it turns out none of this ever happened and Riverdale is just really boring and it’s a All a figment of Jugheads imagination, as he writes a book or something,which at this point is the most plausible  because even if Jughead is possibly voice overing from the future, there are some things he still shouldn’t know, some things that even years later, other chaeacters wouldn’t willingly share, I’m just saying. So I don’t know. I’m really leaning to towards the end of this show that none of this even happened. 

Edited by WhosThatGirl
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20 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

What in the hell are you blabbing about Riverdale use to be a peaceful town, Jughead?!  It feels like this town has always been turmoil.

I always take those comments as a reference to the old comic books some of us remember, which were much more innocent.

As for all the bad lines, this show has always kind of been in the "so bad, it's good", or "so ridiculous, it's entertaining" category for me.  It's a guilty pleasure.

3 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Or make as some other people have wondered when the show ends it turns out none of this ever happened and Riverdale is just really boring and it’s a All a figment of Jugheads imagination, as he writes a book or something,which at this point is the most plausible  because even if Jughead is possibly voice overing from the future, there are some things he still shouldn’t know, some things that even years later, other chaeacters wouldn’t willingly share,

While that makes perfect sense, it would kind of disappoint me, because I would hope Jughead would be a better writer than that  :)

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Ha, I would hope Jughead would be a better writer as well, but it’s odd that he knows certain things he shouldn’t. Like maybe I’m wrong but I very much doubt Betty is sharing with anyone that she’s visiting Hal. Maybe the first time last episode when she has to confront him about his faux signing of her selling her college fund, but even writing that I realized this must not be true because Jughead is still having Alice hell him out when in reality he shouldn’t even speak to him for various reasons, one being that she sold his girlfriends college money. But then I remembered he must know because bettys card got declined at Pops when the core four were there last episode. And that I stop thinking about the stupid narration and what the end goal for that is and it’s bringing me to my main problem. 

See this is the problem: Jughead either knows how terrible Alice is And was to Betty and like everyone else in the show is letting it go. Alice sends Betty away to the Sisters and not one damn person has mentioned it. They mention Betty was there but instead of confronting Alice about it, she’s just harboring the others she freed from there and Alice complains about it. No mention of Betty being sent there by her mother. Alice steals bettys money that Alice has no right to even touch. Jughead knows this happened. So Jughead knows Betty probably saw Hal once. I doubt he knows she keeps going back but maybe I’m wrong. I just don’t see Jughead being cool with that. Then again as I said at this point maybe Jughead totally is and is driving her there. This doesn’t explain his narration on hal being the only who can understand Betty.  But yeah if Jughead knows all this about Betty and bettys money, why is he enlisting for Alices help with FP this episode?

I mean look I get that this show flys by all and every rules it wants to but the interconnections of the relationships are getting really bad at this point. 

I know a few of us have talked about the Betty aspect but this episode really highlighted the complete disconnect that this issue seems to face because they don’t understand how they can keep working the adults in with the kids when they’ve created such terrible relationships with them all. Veronica defiantly fought her father though the first half of this entire season, none of her actions proved to me that she wanted anything to do with him. Then he gets shot and she’s all blood is thicker than water and back to being a mob daughter. Granted at the end she didn’t seem to care but she got an answer and she acted all high and mighty about the situation. Whatever. I don’t understand. 

And then there’s Cheryl. She has hated her mother (rightfully so) and now her uncle who I’m pretty sure she hated too is dead so she’s hosting the funeral? And allowing her mother back in her house? Uh.. huh? It doesn’t make sense. I shouldn’t watch this show and thinkntheres a million scenes that got deleted. Not to mention that as of late they have no idea what to do with the Cheryl character. It seems like the first two seasons a lot of her villainess May have been a refraction of her family and upbringing and then they took her away from her evil family (rightfully so) and brought her into the serpents(bad call there but whatever) and now that she’s out of the gang, they have to bring her mother back into her life to recreate that I guess. Her scene with Betty implied as much, she was protecting her mother’s murder of her dad. Why, I don’t know. It just doesn’t make sense. Again.. are there deleted scenes somewhere? I know betty said Cheryl confesses to being a witness later on in the episode but we didn’t see that scene and I’m thinking it didn’t happen and Betty was trying to get something out of Penelope. 

And seriously... Jugheads parents are bad too. They weren’t highlighted so much as the other three this episode, although I tend to roll my eyes whenever FP acts like he’s such a great father. He really isn’t but whatever. 

Edited by WhosThatGirl

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Did anyone get a weird vibe between Veronica and Jughead in this one? I know it’s Noir and all but it’s almost as if TPTB were insinuating their feelings for each other were gray almost. 

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17 minutes ago, ice said:

Did anyone get a weird vibe between Veronica and Jughead in this one? I know it’s Noir and all but it’s almost as if TPTB were insinuating their feelings for each other were gray almost. 

Yes. It wasn’t over the top or obvious, but it felt kind of flirty.

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