The Stand - General Discussion

[Keywestclubkid]

21 minutes ago, patty1h said:

Just watched the finale.... it didn't end with a bang or a whimper. It ended with a snore and a "why did they bother".  That was so dismal and silly.    I feel cheated.  If I paid for CBS All Access, I'd feel even worse.

Stephen King wrote this ending?  Was any of this in the book/miniseries - reincarnated Abigail, Fran falling down a well, Flagg meeting a tribe?  It's been so long, I don't recall every detail now. 

Yes he meets a tribe on a beach in the book 

[ShellsandCheese]

This show could have and should have been so much better than it was. It was such a disservice to every actor involved. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Also, I cannot believe that Frannie was dumb enough to get on that rickety well covering. 

Edited February 12, 2021 by ShellsandCheese

[Cotypubby]

“What’s that Kojak, what is it, boy? Frannie fell down a well?”

I noticed Mick Garris (director of the original miniseries) was one of the guests at the dance. He was the guy with the long white hair.

This episode was just all kinds of stupid. Most of it felt boring and pointless and seemed like a different show entirely. Yeah Frannie, traveling cross-country with a newborn to a place where no one else lives is genius. I doubt there’s a doctor living in the town you originally abandoned because it was empty, so good luck of the baby ever gets ill or one of you gets injured. Though I guess if that ever happens a new Magical Black Girl will appear to wave her hand over it and make it better. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

5 hours ago, patty1h said:

Just watched the finale.... it didn't end with a bang or a whimper. It ended with a snore and a "why did they bother".  That was so dismal and silly.    I feel cheated.  If I paid for CBS All Access, I'd feel even worse.

Stephen King wrote this ending?  Was any of this in the book/miniseries - reincarnated Abigail, Fran falling down a well, Flagg meeting a tribe?  It's been so long, I don't recall every detail now. 

I took a quick peek at tthe end of the book. Fran does express a desire to go back to Maine someday but they don't yet act on it..

The travel, reincarnated Abagail and Last Temptation of Frannie are all new.

Flagg does appear before a tribe that hadn't been touched by Captain Tripps and introduces himself as Russell Faraday, except he is the more seductive "I'm here to help" kind of evil that he started things off as than the cartoonish, "I'm obviously supernatural and WORSHIP ME" evil. 

[UnoAgain]

I mean.. At least they made sure to make the baby look mixed... That's pretty much all I got.. Even so.. Now the world will be repopulated with Fran and Stu's kids.. Good thing for them.. And Tom all those nice minorities went and died to help them along... Like Mother A... Larry... Dayna.. Nick... And Ray.. If all else fails reborn Mother A can save the day again and then dissapear... Well I said I'd watch it.. And I did

[Poohbear617]

I felt so disappointed as well there was no character development at all throughout the entire series I didn't really get to know anybody I guess except Harold and Nadine.

My absolute favorite characters from the book and from the first mini-series were Tom and Nick. I wanted to see that relationship grow and the  friendship and that trust between them and then see how Tom was so sweet and so innocent and scared when he went to Vegas but his bravery and compassion and him helping Stu to recover and come back and I saw absolutely nothing in that. They simply blew it off that the explosion happened and you see Tom get called by Kojak and walk out of the shadows and smoke and it's thrown away in one single line of yeah Tom saved my life what the hell. 

 

They also blew it with Abigail  there was none of her coming in their dreams, of her welcoming everyone like in the first mini-series of more of her wisdom how the people talked about how they had the dreams to go see the  the old lady with the guitar or do they go see the man with the boots  and the struggle between it.   THey had all this time and they did nothing.  I don't think they spent enough time on Tom's development I mean at least in the book and in the first mini-series they showed the relationship with Tom and how he was and with everybody like Ralph  (  Ray this time)  and with Nick and that's why the scene of them choosing Tom to be one of the spies kind of worked so well everybody cared for him and knew him and they discussed why Tom would not be suspected , but in  this version if you hadn't read the book you would just think they just randomly chose him. They only showed him meeting Nick and crazy girl. Tom became a beloved part of the community.  THere was really no explanation.  I think that the actor who played Tom in this one did a wonderful job and if they had given him more to do it really would have fleshed him out.shown his compassion and innocence and made us care more. I did miss them not showing tom caring for Stu.

And even though it was a minor character I think they did a terrible job with the judge.  There was really no introduction of her at all it was just oh yeah let's send the judge down and then her death meant nothing, it wasn't shown it was just here is her body so what was the point of sending her. The late great Ozzie Davis made an impact in the small role in the original...would it have hurt CBS to give this Judege like 5 fucking minutes of screen time so we care about her.

Also very little background at all on trash why did they not kind of show trash and give a little bit of his background that it would make sense.  It was just all of a sudden he rolls up into town and right into a hotel with the bomb and there was really no reason why. It was just I had high expectations because they were doing it on all access so they could really kind of go where regular broadcast TV couldn't and they had the chance and they had the time and no commercials and really just blew it. They could have done 10 or 11 episodes and give us backstories and character development.  Dont know if i will watch another miniseries from CBS.

 

Edited February 12, 2021 by Poohbear617

[Cotypubby]

Now perhaps I missed something, but what was the point of Mother Abigail even sending the group to Vegas? Seems like they died for no reason. Flagg sends Trashcan Man out to get a nuke, Trashcan Man comes back to Vegas, drives the bomb into the casino and it explodes, killing everyone except Flagg. So... wouldn't that exact same thing have happened without Our Heroes being there?

[patty1h]

8 minutes ago, Cotypubby said:

Now perhaps I missed something, but what was the point of Mother Abigail even sending the group to Vegas? Seems like they died for no reason.

Great question.   I'm wracking my brains and I can't remember what her reasoning was either.   I know the first group was supposed to get intel and return to CO, but Team 2... :shrugs:.    I hope it was something more substantial than "God wants you to go".

[Luckylyn]

I had a theory that the Boulder group were decoys.  Flagg was so focused on making a display of killing them to prove his power.  In the book Trashcan Man is more prominent and there’s a mini subplot where he blows up Flaggs airforce planes after someone he works with is mean to him.  Trashcan disappears and Flagg wants him dead.  The arrival of the Boulder group shifts Flagg’s focus from Trashcan man who goes to get the bomb on his own with the intention of it being an apology for the aircraft explosion.  When Trashcan Man returns with the bomb God makes it explode.  For some reason this miniseries eliminated that.

This miniseries was horribly handled and so much talent wasted.

[IndyMischa]

3 hours ago, patty1h said:

Great question.   I'm wracking my brains and I can't remember what her reasoning was either.   I know the first group was supposed to get intel and return to CO, but Team 2... :shrugs:.    I hope it was something more substantial than "God wants you to go".

The showrunners made any number of incredibly stupid decisions here, but this wasn't one of them. Unfortunately, "God wants you to go" was the book reason also. 

[txhorns79]

21 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

Now perhaps I missed something, but what was the point of Mother Abigail even sending the group to Vegas? Seems like they died for no reason. Flagg sends Trashcan Man out to get a nuke, Trashcan Man comes back to Vegas, drives the bomb into the casino and it explodes, killing everyone except Flagg. So... wouldn't that exact same thing have happened without Our Heroes being there?

I would say their purpose was to sow doubt about Flagg with his followers, weaken him and set the stage for his downfall.  It was not well explained, but I think that was what they were doing.

[Britneys Scrunchie]

On 2/12/2021 at 4:24 PM, Cotypubby said:

Now perhaps I missed something, but what was the point of Mother Abigail even sending the group to Vegas? Seems like they died for no reason. Flagg sends Trashcan Man out to get a nuke, Trashcan Man comes back to Vegas, drives the bomb into the casino and it explodes, killing everyone except Flagg. So... wouldn't that exact same thing have happened without Our Heroes being there?

She sent the four of them there to make their stand against evil. It was not made explicit, but taking a stand against Flagg is what Glenn, Larry and Ralph/Ray were doing when they allowed themselves to be captured and purposely avoided fighting back when they were held captive. It was better shown in the book - by allowing themselves to be martyred, Larry and Ralph triggered the backlash against Flagg as the New Vegas citizens started questioning why the two needed to be executed in such a violent manner.
 

IIRC, Mother Abigail only sanctioned one group going to Vegas - she was not happy about the first group being sent there. But the first group did set the stage for some level of success - Dayna choosing to kill herself rattled people, and Tom’s escape allowed for Stu to be saved. Not sure if anything good came out of the judge’s death. Other than the elimination of Bobby Terry.

[Chaos Theory]

There were certain things I liked about the last two episodes.  It wasn’t made explicit but Glen’s speech during the faux trial when he basically told everyone that Flagg ruled exclusively by fear and later when Larry told Lloyd that showing him Nadine’s head proves how powerless Flagg really was.   Those scenes were very well done.  I actually was very impressed by all of the Las Vegas scenes 
 

This was always a story about faith.  To think it is about something else is a mistake.   The Bolder CO group’s faith was in Mother Abigail who represented God and to a lesser extent working together for a common good.   The Las Vegas group’s faith was in Flagg who represented the Devil and to a lesser extent gluttony and selfishness.   

 

I honestly thought  the last?  episode had potential as well with Fran and Stu making a life for themselves and facing Flagg again but I hated the last part.  I thought the show should have ended with Fran making  her final stand against Flagg and it being done there.   

Edited February 15, 2021 by Chaos Theory

[Keywestclubkid]

16 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

 I thought the show should have ended with Fran making  her final stand against Flagg and it being done there.   

Sin never dies. Sin never dies.. Margaret White 

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 2/12/2021 at 3:24 PM, Cotypubby said:

Now perhaps I missed something, but what was the point of Mother Abigail even sending the group to Vegas? Seems like they died for no reason. Flagg sends Trashcan Man out to get a nuke, Trashcan Man comes back to Vegas, drives the bomb into the casino and it explodes, killing everyone except Flagg. So... wouldn't that exact same thing have happened without Our Heroes being there?

I think inherent in the premise is the problem of why, given that there is a God, why he let Captain Trips kill 99 percent of the world's population, why he let at least America split into the two camps of Boulder and Vegas, why he let all the stuff happen leading up to the Stand, in addition to what the Stand itself accomplished. 

As to all that, I think we can only speculate. The notion that God wanted to inspire future generations with the bravery of those willing to make the Stand, maybe? 

Or like some have speculated, it focused Flagg's attention so much on the Boulder people that he began slipping, and the defiance of the Boulder people meant that the faith of New Vegas residents began slipping, which then meant Flagg's powers began slipping. Reading into this miniseries, one of the things that may have helped inspire Nadine to commit suicide and kill Flagg's unborn child was seeing Larry again. (This may be giving the show too much credit. As I recall it more or less presented Nadine's suicide not so much as an act of rebellion and defiance against Flagg but more like "I'm about to die and I might as well go out this way") If they had not made the Stand, perhaps Flagg Jr. would have been born to cause a new level of horror. Perhaps Flagg Sr. would have had precognitive flashes that would have enabled him to escape or prevent the bomb's destruction. 

[Misplaced]

The series just finished here in the UK on Amazon Prime and wow, what a mess.  

Dear Writers and Producers of The Sleep Stand 2020:

1. Please re-cut all episodes and re-release in chronological order ... in medias res worked for Vergil but ya know, it didn't work here.   Why do I care about any of these people?  Where is their struggle and/or character development if you START the series in Boulder?  

2. Please add back all the film on the cutting-room floor where Ray isn't a needy, weepy, completely insignificant character.

3.  The Dread Pirate Nick, really?  Please return meaning to his character, like, you know, when he frantically tries to find the bomb and sacrifices himself for everyone else or when he grows into Tom's protector and best friend.  

4.  "One will fall by the way" is among the most powerful lines in the book (and the earlier series) and you decided to ... change it.  Stu tasting gun oil when Harold dies is one of most powerful moments in the book (and the earlier series) and you decided to ... cut it.  Larry's twins are one (two?) of the most powerful images of life continuing after The Stand and you decided to ... well, you just elimated that entire storyline which was ALSO Larry's path to becoming a 'nice guy'.   His relationship with Joe did not fill that void.  

5. Why does Amber Heard ... exist.  And what's with that outtake from that middling film Ouija Board to explain Nadine breaking bad.  

6. Trashcan Man, dear god.  Who made that decision?  Why on earth is he roaming around dressed in a spare costume from a bad BDSM p0rn film?  LIke, I don't NEED to see this guy's dirty knickers to know he's nuts.  What even is he.  AND you blew his plotline!  Flagg didn't order him to get the nuke, he did it out of love!  Arrrgghhhh

7.  Why oh why oh why did you pretend that every action in The Stand is without purpose??? Stu falls by the way so that he can bear witness to the destruction of Vegas.  Tom is sent to Vegas so that he can save Stu.  Nick dies so that he can appear to Tom and give him the antibiotics Stu needs to live, but of course you decided to eliminate those scenes altogether making Nick's death even MORE pointless ('yeah Tom saved my life.  Oh and Kojak too.  Now I'm gonna do some Texas line-dancing, on the leg that I broke a couple months back.').

On 2/12/2021 at 9:24 PM, Cotypubby said:

Now perhaps I missed something, but what was the point of Mother Abigail even sending the group to Vegas? Seems like they died for no reason. Flagg sends Trashcan Man out to get a nuke, Trashcan Man comes back to Vegas, drives the bomb into the casino and it explodes, killing everyone except Flagg. So... wouldn't that exact same thing have happened without Our Heroes being there?

Again, producers, you mucked this one up: the group was sent to *bring everyone in Vegas together in the same place* so Flagg (and they) would all die in the explosion.  Glen's death at Flagg's hands gives Larry and Ralph/Ray the strength they need to Fear No Evil.  Flagg orders all of Vegas to attend the spectacle and then TCM pops up with his brand new nuclear friend and the Hand Of God etc etc etc.  But in this version, everyone is in the Party Palace all night every night, so ...yeah, makes no sense.  

Ugh.  It's one of my favorite books because it's absolutely terrifying but this mess is like cold underdone scrambled eggs.  No emotion in it. 

Edited March 1, 2021 by Misplaced
Spelling ...

[lu1535]

On 3/1/2021 at 5:17 AM, Misplaced said:

The series just finished here in the UK on Amazon Prime and wow, what a mess.  

Dear Writers and Producers of The Sleep Stand 2020:

1. Please re-cut all episodes and re-release in chronological order ... in medias res worked for Vergil but ya know, it didn't work here.   Why do I care about any of these people?  Where is their struggle and/or character development if you START the series in Boulder?  

2. Please add back all the film on the cutting-room floor where Ray isn't a needy, weepy, completely insignificant character.

3.  The Dread Pirate Nick, really?  Please return meaning to his character, like, you know, when he frantically tries to find the bomb and sacrifices himself for everyone else or when he grows into Tom's protector and best friend.  

4.  "One will fall by the way" is among the most powerful lines in the book (and the earlier series) and you decided to ... change it.  Stu tasting gun oil when Harold dies is one of most powerful moments in the book (and the earlier series) and you decided to ... cut it.  Larry's twins are one (two?) of the most powerful images of life continuing after The Stand and you decided to ... well, you just elimated that entire storyline which was ALSO Larry's path to becoming a 'nice guy'.   His relationship with Joe did not fill that void.  

5. Why does Amber Heard ... exist.  And what's with that outtake from that middling film Ouija Board to explain Nadine breaking bad.  

6. Trashcan Man, dear god.  Who made that decision?  Why on earth is he roaming around dressed in a spare costume from a bad BDSM p0rn film?  LIke, I don't NEED to see this guy's dirty knickers to know he's nuts.  What even is he.  AND you blew his plotline!  Flagg didn't order him to get the nuke, he did it out of love!  Arrrgghhhh

7.  Why oh why oh why did you pretend that every action in The Stand is without purpose??? Stu falls by the way so that he can bear witness to the destruction of Vegas.  Tom is sent to Vegas so that he can save Stu.  Nick dies so that he can appear to Tom and give him the antibiotics Stu needs to live, but of course you decided to eliminate those scenes altogether making Nick's death even MORE pointless ('yeah Tom saved my life.  Oh and Kojak too.  Now I'm gonna do some Texas line-dancing, on the leg that I broke a couple months back.').

On 2/12/2021 at 4:24 PM, Cotypubby said:

Now perhaps I missed something, but what was the point of Mother Abigail even sending the group to Vegas? Seems like they died for no reason. Flagg sends Trashcan Man out to get a nuke, Trashcan Man comes back to Vegas, drives the bomb into the casino and it explodes, killing everyone except Flagg. So... wouldn't that exact same thing have happened without Our Heroes being there?

Again, producers, you mucked this one up: the group was sent to *bring everyone in Vegas together in the same place* so Flagg (and they) would all die in the explosion.  Glen's death at Flagg's hands gives Larry and Ralph/Ray the strength they need to Fear No Evil.  Flagg orders all of Vegas to attend the spectacle and then TCM pops up with his brand new nuclear friend and the Hand Of God etc etc etc.  But in this version, everyone is in the Party Palace all night every night, so ...yeah, makes no sense.  

Ugh.  It's one of my favorite books because it's absolutely terrifying but this mess is like cold underdone scrambled eggs.  No emotion in it. 

Edited 17 hours ago by Misplaced · Reason: Spelling ...

Couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you.

 And why, oh why did we change the Lincoln tunnel to the NY sewers? 😡

Edited March 2, 2021 by lu1535
Extra thought

[IndyMischa]

53 minutes ago, lu1535 said:

And why, oh why did we change the Lincoln tunnel to the NY sewers? 

And make sure we knew nothing happened in those sewers, having already seen Larry fine and dandy in Boulder. #stillbitter

[GustavMahler]

They certainly manipulated the final episode for Stand II though I hope not.... 

[Luckylyn]

So I was thinking that if they wanted to do a Franny gets tempted by Flagg plot the perfect way to do it would have been when the baby was seriously ill from Tripps and Stu’s fate was unknown to her.   Have Flagg come to her and show her a vision on Stu seriously ill.  Have him tell her he’ll cure the baby and bring Stu back alive.  Then they should have not skipped over the Tom

Spoiler

saves Stu’s life with the help of Nick’s spirit

.  They should have let us see Stu’s condition worsen to create suspense and then have Fran be tempted to save him and her child.  That would have been better than everyone acts stupid so Fran can fall into a well plot. And in the book Fran and Stu don’t leave so soon.  They are waiting for Lucy who tragically doesn’t exist in this version to 

Spoiler

Give birth to her and Larry’s twins.

I am so bitter that Joe was left an orphan when the book left him with a 

Spoiler

mother and soon to be born siblings.  It makes Fran and Stu’s decision to leave worse because I felt like without Lucy as an option they would logically adopted him.  Why not take him with them?

I didn’t need to see Stu and Fran’s journey to Maine.  Just knowing they planned to go was enough for me.  I liked that we didn’t know for sure what would come next after that.

Trashcan man was so interesting in the book because I was horrified by things he did but felt so much pity for him.  They skipped over his arch to make him a one note set of quirks instead of a person.

[Keywestclubkid]

43 minutes ago, Luckylyn said:

So I was thinking that if they wanted to do a Franny gets tempted by Flagg plot the perfect way to do it would have been when the baby was seriously ill from Tripps and Stu’s fate was unknown to her.   Have Flagg come to her and show her a vision on Stu seriously ill.  Have him tell her he’ll cure the baby and bring Stu back alive.  Then they should have not skipped over the Tom

  Hide contents

saves Stu’s life with the help of Nick’s spirit

.  They should have let us see Stu’s condition worsen to create suspense and then have Fran be tempted to save him and her child.  That would have been better than everyone acts stupid so Fran can fall into a well plot. And in the book Fran and Stu don’t leave so soon.  They are waiting for Lucy who tragically doesn’t exist in this version to 

  Hide contents

Give birth to her and Larry’s twins.

I am so bitter that Joe was left an orphan when the book left him with a 

  Hide contents

mother and soon to be born siblings.  It makes Fran and Stu’s decision to leave worse because I felt like without Lucy as an option they would logically adopted him.  Why not take him with them?

I didn’t need to see Stu and Fran’s journey to Maine.  Just knowing they planned to go was enough for me.  I liked that we didn’t know for sure what would come next after that.

Trashcan man was so interesting in the book because I was horrified by things he did but felt so much pity for him.  They skipped over his arch to make him a one note set of quirks instead of a person.

I feel like the writers didn't even read the book .. its like they picked up a Cliff's Note version of the story and were like THIS IS IT this is what we need to film

[Luckylyn]

Every Way The 2020 Stand Miniseries Original Plan Changed

I’m very curious how the original R-rated film trilogy idea would have turned out.  It’s interesting to see multiple high profile people had been involved before we got what we did.  I vaguely remember hearing about the version where Matthew Mcconaughey was going to be Stu and Christian Bale was cast as Flagg years ago.  I would have liked to have seen that.

I will say for the most part casting was where 2020 Stand did good.  Sadly that talent was wasted with poor writing.

[Anela]

It took me until episode six, to recognize Greg Kinnear.  

[NeenerNeener]

The guy who played Tom Cullen, Brad William Henke, died on 11/29/22.