The Middle - General Discussion

[Aethera]

This topic replaces the old The Middle forum which has been vaulted at the location below:

http://forums.previously.tv/forum/315-the-middle-v/

[Denman]

Link doesn't appear to work?

[paulvdb]

There was a glitch during the forum reorganisation where we lost all vaulted forums for shows starting with M. So unfortunately the old posts were all lost.

[SnarkySheep]

Am finally getting around to watching the final season...

Axel, dear...you can't just hop onto a school bus and start driving the local kids. You need a commercial driver's license. 

[readster]

8 minutes ago, SnarkySheep said:

Am finally getting around to watching the final season...

Axel, dear...you can't just hop onto a school bus and start driving the local kids. You need a commercial driver's license. 

Oh I know. Axel's "struggle" didn't work because he was doing things that he knew he wasn't doing right and the fact you can't just GIVE a job like that out to someone. My best friend's sister drove a school bus for two years, she had to go get a commercial diver's license too. Also, the final season you turned around and between all the STUPID things the writers did to keep Sue and Sean apart because they didn't want to write them as a couple in the final season. But all of Brick's story lines got worst and worst and worst. 

[MollyMelrose]

Nancy Donahue sighting today. She played a psychic on General Hospital. Sitting in the cemetery, organizing all the dead people in Port Charles. 😀😀

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, readster said:

Oh I know. Axel's "struggle" didn't work because he was doing things that he knew he wasn't doing right and the fact you can't just GIVE a job like that out to someone. My best friend's sister drove a school bus for two years, she had to go get a commercial diver's license too. Also, the final season you turned around and between all the STUPID things the writers did to keep Sue and Sean apart because they didn't want to write them as a couple in the final season. But all of Brick's story lines got worst and worst and worst. 

So much of the last season was such a waste. They wanted to keep Sue and Sean a part without ever giving a reason for it. They wasted so much time on that for nothing not to mention over two seasons. Brick's storylines were so bad. Axl randomly driving a school bus without getting a license to do so and so rarely saw him with Lexie. So they had two couples they wanted to end with one together and one they wanted to get together in the last episode and we saw nothing with either one. Sure we got to meet Lexie's parents but that's really it. 

[readster]

15 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

So much of the last season was such a waste. They wanted to keep Sue and Sean a part without ever giving a reason for it. They wasted so much time on that for nothing not to mention over two seasons. Brick's storylines were so bad. Axl randomly driving a school bus without getting a license to do so and so rarely saw him with Lexie. So they had two couples they wanted to end with one together and one they wanted to get together in the last episode and we saw nothing with either one. Sure we got to meet Lexie's parents but that's really it. 

Right and they were trying to explain all the excuses in the last episode and it didn't come off as: "See, we had a plan." It came off more of: "We really, really really didn't feel confident in writing the episodes, so we spun it to the end. Aren't we clever?" It was like the final episode with Mike and the Quarry, you had Mike's superiors even saying they should have been arrested or shut down years ago for screwing so many people or people screwing them. Then the big joke was Mike gets his promotion and is just right next door and has alienated all his former co-workers. Then add in the fact, he didn't know what Skype was but yet could spell it perfectly on a Google Search? Even with the kids saying how much of a flake Frankie was and would get tired of her "next ambition" didn't really do anything. It made Frankie still come across that she was a lazy ass person who just floated in life and then complained when things didn't go her way because she didn't DARE put any effort into anything. 

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, readster said:

Right and they were trying to explain all the excuses in the last episode and it didn't come off as: "See, we had a plan." It came off more of: "We really, really really didn't feel confident in writing the episodes, so we spun it to the end. Aren't we clever?" It was like the final episode with Mike and the Quarry, you had Mike's superiors even saying they should have been arrested or shut down years ago for screwing so many people or people screwing them. Then the big joke was Mike gets his promotion and is just right next door and has alienated all his former co-workers. Then add in the fact, he didn't know what Skype was but yet could spell it perfectly on a Google Search? Even with the kids saying how much of a flake Frankie was and would get tired of her "next ambition" didn't really do anything. It made Frankie still come across that she was a lazy ass person who just floated in life and then complained when things didn't go her way because she didn't DARE put any effort into anything. 

That's really how it came off. The excuses made no sense and they wasted too many perfect opportunities. We sat through Sean telling Axl was going to do something and then didn't. Even towards the end we have Sue talking about how she always went for things and didn't give up so you think that would make Sue do something instead of lying on the couch doing nothing. I have no idea if Sue or Sean are meant to be when Sue won't even just get off the couch and walk over to tell him or Sean won't come over and just tell Sue instead of maybe Axl its kind of hard to root for. I got really tired of Frankie's laziness and it really got boring. I wanted so much to see her at any point in the 9 seasons finally put in the effort in something anything. She never does. Not even when decides to learn a skill which was a good idea but then we saw Frankie once again being so bad at it and not bothering to do anything. Not just the laziness but also forgetting stuff I got really tired of her and Mike both always forgetting birthdays. I really liked Frankie when they show started and for the first few seasons I really wanted to see her finally start getting it together over the 9 years. Same with Mike and the kids always forgetting Mother's Day Frankie really wouldn't be that hard to get a gift anything perfume, jewelry, snacks, magazines, movies, anything royalty or celebrity. They go all that effort to give Frankie a gift with nothing in it. We see them later with the blanket of Harry and Meghan why not have that in the box to give to Frankie instead of an empty box. 

[readster]

10 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

 Not just the laziness but also forgetting stuff I got really tired of her and Mike both always forgetting birthdays. I really liked Frankie when they show started and for the first few seasons I really wanted to see her finally start getting it together over the 9 years. Same with Mike and the kids always forgetting Mother's Day Frankie really wouldn't be that hard to get a gift anything perfume, jewelry, snacks, magazines, movies, anything royalty or celebrity. They go all that effort to give Frankie a gift with nothing in it. We see them later with the blanket of Harry and Meghan why not have that in the box to give to Frankie instead of an empty box. 

Forgetting got really, really painful. I also remember when they decided to explain in the last 4 episodes why they always ate out and were so low on money half the time. Frankie's: "I keep using coupons and getting tons of frozen food, but I'm too tired when I put it away." I remember someone on twitter asking Heaton if Frankie had a thyroid problem and why she was always so tired. I think she replied along the lines of: "Frankie is just like that." Or how Mike was looking to make lunch for him and Brick and he finds 3 bags of just bread heals and then asks: "What should we do?" to Brick. I don't know Mike, maybe go get in a car and buy some DAMN bread!

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, readster said:

Forgetting got really, really painful. I also remember when they decided to explain in the last 4 episodes why they always ate out and were so low on money half the time. Frankie's: "I keep using coupons and getting tons of frozen food, but I'm too tired when I put it away." I remember someone on twitter asking Heaton if Frankie had a thyroid problem and why she was always so tired. I think she replied along the lines of: "Frankie is just like that." Or how Mike was looking to make lunch for him and Brick and he finds 3 bags of just bread heals and then asks: "What should we do?" to Brick. I don't know Mike, maybe go get in a car and buy some DAMN bread!

It really did. I actually thought after the Map episode they would drop that when they showed Frankie being upset after learning her aunt had turned 100 and she didn't realize it or do anything. They even have that scene where she and Mike are have the calendar and she's talking about all the stuff they miss birthdays, holidays and kids stuff Mike finds an invitation to a wedding that even Mike thinks sounds fun but it was a year ago. They end with that cake and candle for her aunt's birthday and celebrating a few birthdays and holidays. Frankie even destroys their usual argument of being too busy by pointing out their not too busy to watch every episode of TV show.

I agree about Mike. Mike's an adult who doesn't know what do when there's no food in the house. Go get something buy food, get fast food, order a pizza? How could he have no idea what to do? That episode when Brick discovers online shopping you'd think they'd realize they could just order groceries and do that. I did think it was odd when Brick hit his teen years not to just go get food too. My friends and I walked or took the bus to go getting tacos or burgers or even go to the grocery store for snacks, frozen burritos, hot pockets and stuff for hanging out or that we'd just hide/smuggle into our rooms starting in our middle school years so we were always a little puzzled that neither Mike or Brick didn't just go get food when they were out when we were pretty lazy too. 

[SnarkySheep]

6 hours ago, readster said:

Forgetting got really, really painful. I also remember when they decided to explain in the last 4 episodes why they always ate out and were so low on money half the time. Frankie's: "I keep using coupons and getting tons of frozen food, but I'm too tired when I put it away." I remember someone on twitter asking Heaton if Frankie had a thyroid problem and why she was always so tired. I think she replied along the lines of: "Frankie is just like that." Or how Mike was looking to make lunch for him and Brick and he finds 3 bags of just bread heals and then asks: "What should we do?" to Brick. I don't know Mike, maybe go get in a car and buy some DAMN bread!

I spent a lot of time during the early seasons mentally calculating how much all their fast food dinners would cost for a family of five. Whether it was Subway or a burger place, they always seemed to get separate meal combos, including soda (seriously, they were eating at home! why not just buy some 2 liters at the Frugal Hoosier for these occasions?) Even a fairly cheap, crappy dinner could easily run them $30-$40. Seriously, had the Hecks never heard of a Crock Pot??

[readster]

2 hours ago, SnarkySheep said:

I spent a lot of time during the early seasons mentally calculating how much all their fast food dinners would cost for a family of five. Whether it was Subway or a burger place, they always seemed to get separate meal combos, including soda (seriously, they were eating at home! why not just buy some 2 liters at the Frugal Hoosier for these occasions?) Even a fairly cheap, crappy dinner could easily run them $30-$40. Seriously, had the Hecks never heard of a Crock Pot??

Why I stopped caring about when they complained about money problems. They were at their own damn fault spending money out so much. Mike let his company take advantage of him. Frankie didn't know when to save some money. Plus, Frankie was "always tired" for some reason. Hell, first time we saw her at home, she got on her couch and wanted her mom to make her a sandwich like she was still 10. Apparently Frankie's mother spent too much time doing everything for her and didn't teach her how to do anything. If it was 2015, ok, but Frankie was in her 50s. You learned how to DO THINGS growing up. 

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, readster said:

Why I stopped caring about when they complained about money problems. They were at their own damn fault spending money out so much. Mike let his company take advantage of him. Frankie didn't know when to save some money. Plus, Frankie was "always tired" for some reason. Hell, first time we saw her at home, she got on her couch and wanted her mom to make her a sandwich like she was still 10. Apparently Frankie's mother spent too much time doing everything for her and didn't teach her how to do anything. If it was 2015, ok, but Frankie was in her 50s. You learned how to DO THINGS growing up. 

Same here. It gets hard to be sympathetic when they don't do anything to change. Like Frankie and the car dealer ship she never tries to sell a car. Despite knowing how bad their finances are or the couple times she did make a sell when she really needed too to keep out of the dog suit and in the second episode when their washer, glasses, library books and stuff kept adding up. But she doesn't the rest of the time. She's too lazy to. Mike really should have paid more attention at work because he was being taken advantage of but of course he doesn't. They keep making the same mistake like what put them in the whole in the very second episode was the credit card bill that they didn't need to make any payments until 2009 so they used it and now had to pay it. They end up moving all of it to another credit card. They do go see a financial advisor in TV or Not TV who gives them an honest assessment but Frankie of course won't listen. They win 1000 at Bingo and Mike's suggests they should pay down the credit card like the advisor said Frankie spends it getting the TV back. Yes they found out Mike got his job back but he would  have learned it soon enough. They could have paid down their credit cards. Obviously all their fast food eating (although I do love the kids reaction to Frankie actually cooking they'd rather starve). Mike somehow never actually fixes anything. If not Big Mike who knows when they'd have gotten a sink back.  Whenever Frankie needs a second job she's always able to go that Heritage place where she's just as lazy there. Thanksgiving VII she's rolling her eyes and annoyed because Faith Ford's character is actually doing her job. 

[andromeda331]

One of my favorite funny moments is in Taking Back the House when Brick comes up to his parents telling them that he looked up Moby Dick hard edition on the internet and they won't believe what came up I love Mike's and Frankie's reactions and Mike answering "Oh I bet we can" But since its Brick it was actual books. First editions.

I do love that episode Mike and Frankie are hilarious and how confused Axl, Sue and Brick are the entire time. Axl trying for a second to play along and goes into the house to watch Say Yes to the Dress Southern Belle and Axl bails. 

I'll never stop loving their TV addiction. 

[readster]

4 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

One of my favorite funny moments is in Taking Back the House when Brick comes up to his parents telling them that he looked up Moby Dick hard edition on the internet and they won't believe what came up I love Mike's and Frankie's reactions and Mike answering "Oh I bet we can" But since its Brick it was actual books. First editions.

I do love that episode Mike and Frankie are hilarious and how confused Axl, Sue and Brick are the entire time. Axl trying for a second to play along and goes into the house to watch Say Yes to the Dress Southern Belle and Axl bails. 

I'll never stop loving their TV addiction. 

Oh, I know that's what made the show great. I also got a kick out of when Sue was trying to be recruited by another fast food place at the mall. Sue kept bringing up what they needed to do to get her. The manager was like: "Ok" but then would give a pretty lack luster comeback including just a dime raise and able to wear different pants on Friday. Sue's reactions are priceless. 

[andromeda331]

6 hours ago, readster said:

Oh, I know that's what made the show great. I also got a kick out of when Sue was trying to be recruited by another fast food place at the mall. Sue kept bringing up what they needed to do to get her. The manager was like: "Ok" but then would give a pretty lack luster comeback including just a dime raise and able to wear different pants on Friday. Sue's reactions are priceless. 

And the title he completely made up Assistant Manager of Condiment Distribution. Which was of course Sue was totally sold and excited about. 

[readster]

5 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

And the title he completely made up Assistant Manager of Condiment Distribution. Which was of course Sue was totally sold and excited about. 

It was funny how much Heaton would defend the Middle even when the episodes were completely stupid and yet Charlie McDerment (Axl) didn't hold back saying how something was completely stupid. I mean he did try leaving the show twice, but even with all that, it never came to the point where TPTB were about to do like other shows and be: "Oh we aren't good enough for you? Good luck finding a new job!" He even said he never understood what Axl say in brain dead Stacy and thought he was thrown together with Lexi way to fast. Even said that Axl's college must be a pretty bad team if they threw him in and he lasts barely 3 seconds, but can stay on the team and keep his scholarship even though he benched warmed the entire 4 years he was there. You do have to wonder of the creators really didn't care if their stars said bad things or really realized it was pretty stupid, but hey ABC wanted them on the TV and people watched. So who cared!

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, readster said:

It was funny how much Heaton would defend the Middle even when the episodes were completely stupid and yet Charlie McDerment (Axl) didn't hold back saying how something was completely stupid. I mean he did try leaving the show twice, but even with all that, it never came to the point where TPTB were about to do like other shows and be: "Oh we aren't good enough for you? Good luck finding a new job!" He even said he never understood what Axl say in brain dead Stacy and thought he was thrown together with Lexi way to fast. Even said that Axl's college must be a pretty bad team if they threw him in and he lasts barely 3 seconds, but can stay on the team and keep his scholarship even though he benched warmed the entire 4 years he was there. You do have to wonder of the creators really didn't care if their stars said bad things or really realized it was pretty stupid, but hey ABC wanted them on the TV and people watched. So who cared!

It is surprising that Charlie never did hold back. I think the writers for the most part either didn't realize what a great show they had to write for or didn't care. They wrote the Hecks especially in the later years about as lazy as well Frankie was. They kept hitting the same notes year after year. In the beginning Frankie made more sense as tired mom frazzled mom who had to stay on Axl to even get him to school and do his homework, Sue needed so much from her that she was exhausted by the time she got to Brick. She really did try at times to try and improve things. It made less sense years later for her to be even more lazy and not willing to do things. To have them keep forgetting birthdays and not bother to try or care. Axl was obnoxious, pain in the butt, but he did have moments like lying about the letter Sean found, telling the make out couple to get out of the way so Sue could get to her locker and without her ever finding out, and even realizing he wanted more then just a hot girlfriend after getting the new hot but stupid boss at the movie theater. Why did they completely drop Axl's college football career? No Hecks driving up to see Axl play college football especially Mike. Watching him on his away games. Or Axl falling for stupid April with zero reason why and give us the episode where Axl can't be an jerk because he's in love so he's a jerk to his family and their just suppose to take it. Cause of love. Why bring on a character for Axl to date, marriage and supposedly be in love and her entire personality is she's stupid. They give us Frankie deciding after being laid off from the car lot and deciding she was going to learn a skill to try and find a better job. That's not a bad idea. But why not have Frankie follow through with it or at least trying to do better? The ignoring Brick you can kind of see why it happened with Axl such a mess and Sue needing so much. But after awhile it got old especially after Axl and then Sue left for college and acted like they were done with parenting and raising Brick. Or with Sue. Things Sue did when she was in middle school or later made sense still doing them in college was weird. They seemed to forget at times that Sue was in college and still acting like she was still 12 or 13. No one remembering Sue also got old after awhile. She had way too many memorable moments for everyone to keep forgetting her. Some sure, but everyone? 

[readster]

6 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Why did they completely drop Axl's college football career? No Hecks driving up to see Axl play college football especially Mike. Watching him on his away games. Or Axl falling for stupid April with zero reason why and give us the episode where Axl can't be an jerk because he's in love so he's a jerk to his family and their just suppose to take it. Cause of love. Why bring on a character for Axl to date, marriage and supposedly be in love and her entire personality is she's stupid. They give us Frankie deciding after being laid off from the car lot and deciding she was going to learn a skill to try and find a better job. That's not a bad idea. But why not have Frankie follow through with it or at least trying to do better? The ignoring Brick you can kind of see why it happened with Axl such a mess and Sue needing so much. But after awhile it got old especially after Axl and then Sue left for college and acted like they were done with parenting and raising Brick. Or with Sue. Things Sue did when she was in middle school or later made sense still doing them in college was weird. They seemed to forget at times that Sue was in college and still acting like she was still 12 or 13. No one remembering Sue also got old after awhile. She had way too many memorable moments for everyone to keep forgetting her. Some sure, but everyone? 

It would also make no sense when they dropped something and then brought it back because the writers either liked the plot point or something. Brick's lawn chair going away was because the writers at the time thought it didn't make sense to still being using it when they had plenty of dining chairs. Then other writers were: "We miss the chair, it was so funny, let's bring it back." Then having it fall apart and Brick someone how getting unlimited use of payments from Amazon and ordering over 30 chairs. Including him going: "I never knew I could do this!" They really made the Hecks not only lazy, but stupid as time went on just to make the plot work. Brick was the prime example from his teachers thinking Brick was purposely doing things to them because Brick did strange things he couldn't help himself with. Because you know, in a school staff and admin wouldn't have been talking to each other how Brick does weird things and no one has EVER thought of having him tested for ADD, OCD or Autism. It's suppose to be weird and funny. Don't get me started on the bathroom episode where Brick thought 2000 Flushes meant you flush the toilet 2000 times and he somehow made NHS? Mike just wanted to do his job and not be noticed. Yet, he got upset how  his bosses treated him, people would "force" him into doing things and instead of saying: "Would you just let me be if you want it that bad you do it!" Instead he goes around looking like a whipped husband and so stuck in his old ways he hates change. 

 Sue acting like she was still 12 and the fact that even Eden Sher said it got annoying and the only reason why Sue got her braces off was both because she was having problems talking and so the directors were tired of doing multiple takes because they couldn't understand her. So the reason that Sue had braces on all the time was because "She had spongy bones" which can happen, but orthodontists put on fixed retainers and so forth. Yet it isn't until Sue's teeth go to looking like she was caught in a fight. Then when he does say he'll just use a retainer, you can tell Richard Kind who played the orthodontist, he has a look like: "Oh this is really dumb, thank God I'm getting paid for this." 

  Also, let's not forget how Brick went on a hate spree in the movie theater because a bad adaption of Planet Knowhere was being made. Yet he thinks it's the movie theaters fault and the fact he "had never been to a movie theater in his life until 14" which really had people scratching their heads. 

[andromeda331]

On 8/1/2019 at 7:12 AM, readster said:

It would also make no sense when they dropped something and then brought it back because the writers either liked the plot point or something. Brick's lawn chair going away was because the writers at the time thought it didn't make sense to still being using it when they had plenty of dining chairs. Then other writers were: "We miss the chair, it was so funny, let's bring it back." Then having it fall apart and Brick someone how getting unlimited use of payments from Amazon and ordering over 30 chairs. Including him going: "I never knew I could do this!" They really made the Hecks not only lazy, but stupid as time went on just to make the plot work. Brick was the prime example from his teachers thinking Brick was purposely doing things to them because Brick did strange things he couldn't help himself with. Because you know, in a school staff and admin wouldn't have been talking to each other how Brick does weird things and no one has EVER thought of having him tested for ADD, OCD or Autism. It's suppose to be weird and funny. Don't get me started on the bathroom episode where Brick thought 2000 Flushes meant you flush the toilet 2000 times and he somehow made NHS? Mike just wanted to do his job and not be noticed. Yet, he got upset how  his bosses treated him, people would "force" him into doing things and instead of saying: "Would you just let me be if you want it that bad you do it!" Instead he goes around looking like a whipped husband and so stuck in his old ways he hates change. 

 Sue acting like she was still 12 and the fact that even Eden Sher said it got annoying and the only reason why Sue got her braces off was both because she was having problems talking and so the directors were tired of doing multiple takes because they couldn't understand her. So the reason that Sue had braces on all the time was because "She had spongy bones" which can happen, but orthodontists put on fixed retainers and so forth. Yet it isn't until Sue's teeth go to looking like she was caught in a fight. Then when he does say he'll just use a retainer, you can tell Richard Kind who played the orthodontist, he has a look like: "Oh this is really dumb, thank God I'm getting paid for this." 

  Also, let's not forget how Brick went on a hate spree in the movie theater because a bad adaption of Planet Knowhere was being made. Yet he thinks it's the movie theaters fault and the fact he "had never been to a movie theater in his life until 14" which really had people scratching their heads. 

I hated those things and it made zero sense. Why bring back the lawn chair? Although it was really stupid on their part to have Brick sitting in it for so long and show us they had plenty of dining room chairs. Why do that? It makes zero sense they'd wouldn't just grab one of those chairs? They really should have just had Frankie find one at a garage sale or Mike get one from his hording father.  Why would he possibly think 2000 Flushes meant that? He's a reader but didn't read the back of the box? They really made him look stupid at times.

I really hate the Brick's never been to a movie theater. I know its the Hecks thing to forget about him. But watching movies and TVs is like the one thing they all do together. There's no way they wouldn't have gone to dozens of movies together. If anything Brick would have done what he usually did bring a book and look up every once in awhile like he usually does.

I'm glad they finally got Sue's braces off it was insane that it took that long for her teeth to be fixed. At times they showed her seeming to mature or being older. Then in the next episode she's back to being a 12 year old. It was very annoying. 

[andromeda331]

Things I do love. I love Frankie and Brick bonding over the Bachelor after her being devastated all episode long it was cool to find out Brick had actually been watching along. I do love the kids each realizing Frankie was so distracted during the show she'd sign or agree to anything without listening.

The Door-Mike and Axl both so stubborn and in the end neither actually broke. Frankie finally giving in and fixing it herself. Mike not giving in even not even when Jehovah's Witnesses show up. Frankie trying so hard to sell a car and failing until she yells that the guy. So happy that Brick's working on a project but since its Brick he builds the wrong thing and Frankie finds a deer eating it. 

The Scratch-Brick getting Mike and Frankie in hot water by telling his teacher or teacher's aide that his mom hit him with a beer bottle. I love the frantic trash scene, Mike and Frankie arguing on the phone who's turn it is to go down to the school and Mike ending up losing, both panicking when they realize its all on Brick and his answers to keep them from losing him. The frantic leaning before the social worker shows up, not having a Bible but thinking to turn the TV to PBS but they don't actually know the channel. Everyone's answers to the questions. Finding out Mike dated the social worker and I really do like that she wasn't out to get them. Frankie freaking out and showing up to find out what she was going to say, crying and hugging her when she learned they weren't going to lose the kids. Her using that report against Axl later.

Edited August 3, 2019 by andromeda331

[readster]

10 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I hated those things and it made zero sense. Why bring back the lawn chair? Although it was really stupid on their part to have Brick sitting in it for so long and show us they had plenty of dining room chairs. Why do that? It makes zero sense they'd wouldn't just grab one of those chairs? They really should have just had Frankie find one at a garage sale or Mike get one from his hording father.  Why would he possibly think 2000 Flushes meant that? He's a reader but didn't read the back of the box? They really made him look stupid at times.

Even worst, Brick was getting his bathroom cleaning tips from Youtube. Really? Did he watch the guy do that with the toilet? Where did he get to the point he thought that? How about when he realized that his girlfriend, Weird Tall I'm doing TV movies and the writers have to say I'm always growing when I'm not around Ashley. Was kicking the Heck's car, being a bitch at times and the found out her parents mooched off everyone and bullied people into giving them money because "We deserve it". You just asked the question: "Why would anyone want to date or associate with her or her family?" But it was played for laughs and that it was: "See she is the only person who gets Brick because her family is weird." When no, it came off that the Hecks just didn't think things through or ahead. Ashley's family were just horrible people. 

Quote

The Scratch-Brick getting Mike and Frankie in hot water by telling his teacher or teacher's aide that his mom hit him with a beer bottle. I love the frantic trash scene, Mike and Frankie arguing on the phone who's turn it is to go down to the school and Mike ending up losing, both panicking when they realize its all in Brick's house. The frantic leaning before the social worker shows up, not having a Bible but thinking to turn the TV to PBS but they don't actually know the channel. Everyone's answers to the questions. Finding out Mike dated the social worker and I really do like that she wasn't out to get them. Frankie freaking out and showing up to find out what she was going to say, crying and hugging her when she learned they weren't going to lose the kids. Her using that report against Axl later.

I know that was hilarious, but that was another thing that wrong with The Middle were the schools. I mean the teachers came off they got their degrees through mail in rebate. They NEVER talked to anyone. David Foley's character came across as someone who would have been kicked out of the district years ago and don't get me started on the classic ABC's take on principals and vice principals. I'm surprised they didn't show us the school board being a bunch of lazy, drunk morons.

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, readster said:

Even worst, Brick was getting his bathroom cleaning tips from Youtube. Really? Did he watch the guy do that with the toilet? Where did he get to the point he thought that? How about when he realized that his girlfriend, Weird Tall I'm doing TV movies and the writers have to say I'm always growing when I'm not around Ashley. Was kicking the Heck's car, being a bitch at times and the found out her parents mooched off everyone and bullied people into giving them money because "We deserve it". You just asked the question: "Why would anyone want to date or associate with her or her family?" But it was played for laughs and that it was: "See she is the only person who gets Brick because her family is weird." When no, it came off that the Hecks just didn't think things through or ahead. Ashley's family were just horrible people.

Good question if he looked up YouTube he wouldn't have found a video of a guy flushing 2000 times just using the product. It was Cindy not Ashley. I hated Cindy she was really horrible to Brick. I hated her kicking Mike's car and him not saying anything, I really hated Cindy, her parents and Brick demanding and expecting Mike and Frankie to just hand over money and shocked that they wouldn't. That was bullshit. I really wanted Brick to break up with her and find someone else. Ashley was Weird Ashley. I hated her stalking Axl and acting like they were together. That was just horrible. In the episode when Axl runs into his exes they act like Axl had been the one treating Weird Ashley like crap. Ah, no Axl made it very clear he wasn't into Ashley. He didn't like her and it was Ashley who never took a hint. He did accidentally ask her to prom but ended up being nice and not ditching her (although I really think he should have just told her he didn't want to take her to prom) and that one prom when he was nice to her after her date dumped her. 

Quote

I know that was hilarious, but that was another thing that wrong with The Middle were the schools. I mean the teachers came off they got their degrees through mail in rebate. They NEVER talked to anyone. David Foley's character came across as someone who would have been kicked out of the district years ago and don't get me started on the classic ABC's take on principals and vice principals. I'm surprised they didn't show us the school board being a bunch of lazy, drunk morons.

I really hated David Foley's character your right he would have been kicked of the district years ago and probably in jail for crazy stalking his ex or a student Brick couldn't have been the only one he was creepy around. Brick's principal did tell the cops that Mike and Frankie were good parents but yeah I agree. Most of them were crappy or stupid teachers. I don't buy that they all would forget Sue. Not in a town that small and district that small. I don't really like Sue's college teacher just accepting her argument paper where she refused to give unhappy papers. Yes, Sue had a reason but she also kept messing up the papers because she wasn't doing what the professor asked her. Professors do that on purpose for a reason. They want to argue points you wouldn't argue. For something you disagree with. Sue not wanting to an arguing that she shouldn't because that's not how she feels or thinks wasn't correct. He shouldn't have accepted it. Sue should have had to do it or get a bad grade in the class.

As much as I love the neighborhood finally taking on the Glossners I really do hate at the end of the episode they make it sound like it wasn't Rita's fault her kids were horrible brats. She was nicer and better after some of her kids were shipped off to jail or juvie. The show made it clear Rita was the problem. They tried to talk to her, she didn't care and threatened them. She didn't raise or disciplined her sons. 

The Middle had this weird habit of bringing on horrible characters and just keeping them around because they were "funny" when they really weren't. Cindy wasn't funny or quirky, she a bitch and so were her parents. Weird Ashley was interesting at times because she was different and didn't care but mostly stalked Axl and wouldn't take a hint, Frankie's creepy co-worker Bob who was actually jealous of Brick spending time with his girlfriend, Foley's creepy character, the Glossners.

Or they just go too far with a character. Cindy would have been fine if she just kept her same monotone voice and just been a little off. Did they have to make her such a bitch? But they upped her to a bitch. Weird Ashley was interesting when she wasn't stalking Axl why not just have her get over that? Did Bob and Foley have to be so creepy? Did they have to make April so stupid?  

[readster]

2 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

The show made it clear Rita was the problem. They tried to talk to her, she didn't care and threatened them. She didn't raise or disciplined her sons. 

The Middle had this weird habit of bringing on horrible characters and just keeping them around because they were "funny" when they really weren't. Cindy wasn't funny or quirky, she a bitch and so were her parents. Weird Ashley was interesting at times because she was different and didn't care but mostly stalked Axl and wouldn't take a hint, Frankie's creepy co-worker Bob who was actually jealous of Brick spending time with his girlfriend, Foley's creepy character, the Glossners.

Or they just go too far with a character. Cindy would have been fine if she just kept her same monotone voice and just been a little off. Did they have to make her such a bitch? But they upped her to a bitch. Weird Ashley was interesting when she wasn't stalking Axl why not just have her get over that? Did Bob and Foley have to be so creepy? Did they have to make April so stupid?  

Right and with Rita the excuse was; "How many news reports do you hear about a parent or parents that are like that and no one throws them in jail." Which when you look at it: "Well, they have 3 strikes and they are out." in real life. Rita was funny at first, but as it went on and the more we saw her kids it was just: "What the hell is this?" Plus, at what point wouldn't the bank of foreclosed on the house. Rita even admitted that she threw money as much as she could, but was barely avoiding losing their "crap shack". Plus, the house was in such poor shape, it would have fallen apart years ago. 

Sorry about Cindy and Ashley mixed up, but you see my points. It was also like how they showed that Sue couldn't keep secrets or cracked under pressure. Then have episodes where she revealed she was cheating at games to beat Axl during the Escape Room (plus that employee would have been fired). Which showed another thing, it's not the 90s anymore, people sleep or show up late for work, they get fired and very fast. They also get black balled a lot sooner and why employment is also high these days. Companies get people who don't know how to make grill cheese and then these people think they can walk away with a 45K year job when they constantly have no work ethic. Yes, it's a reflection of the time, but it is also starting to be a reality check for people as they hit 25 and then don't get why they are living in their parents' basements. 

[SnarkySheep]

18 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

The Scratch-Brick getting Mike and Frankie in hot water by telling his teacher or teacher's aide that his mom hit him with a beer bottle. I love the frantic trash scene, Mike and Frankie arguing on the phone who's turn it is to go down to the school and Mike ending up losing, both panicking when they realize its all on Brick and his answers to keep them from losing him. The frantic leaning before the social worker shows up, not having a Bible but thinking to turn the TV to PBS but they don't actually know the channel. Everyone's answers to the questions. Finding out Mike dated the social worker and I really do like that she wasn't out to get them. Frankie freaking out and showing up to find out what she was going to say, crying and hugging her when she learned they weren't going to lose the kids. Her using that report against Axl later.

If I'm not mistaken, they actually referred to this incident some seasons later, when somebody or other was in trouble and Frankie was like, we're already on social services' radar...

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, SnarkySheep said:

If I'm not mistaken, they actually referred to this incident some seasons later, when somebody or other was in trouble and Frankie was like, we're already on social services' radar...

I do remember her saying that. But I can't remember which episode.

[readster]

10 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I do remember her saying that. But I can't remember which episode.

Yes and it was brought up to in the last season where Frankie said: "One more year and we won't have to worry about social anymore checking in on us."

[NewGranny]

On 7/31/2019 at 2:44 AM, andromeda331 said:

Same here. It gets hard to be sympathetic when they don't do anything to change. Like Frankie and the car dealer ship she never tries to sell a car. Despite knowing how bad their finances are or the couple times she did make a sell when she really needed too to keep out of the dog suit and in the second episode when their washer, glasses, library books and stuff kept adding up. But she doesn't the rest of the time. She's too lazy to. Mike really should have paid more attention at work because he was being taken advantage of but of course he doesn't. They keep making the same mistake like what put them in the whole in the very second episode was the credit card bill that they didn't need to make any payments until 2009 so they used it and now had to pay it. They end up moving all of it to another credit card. They do go see a financial advisor in TV or Not TV who gives them an honest assessment but Frankie of course won't listen. They win 1000 at Bingo and Mike's suggests they should pay down the credit card like the advisor said Frankie spends it getting the TV back. Yes they found out Mike got his job back but he would  have learned it soon enough. They could have paid down their credit cards. Obviously all their fast food eating (although I do love the kids reaction to Frankie actually cooking they'd rather starve). Mike somehow never actually fixes anything. If not Big Mike who knows when they'd have gotten a sink back.  Whenever Frankie needs a second job she's always able to go that Heritage place where she's just as lazy there. Thanksgiving VII she's rolling her eyes and annoyed because Faith Ford's character is actually doing her job. 

Okay, so I have tried watching this show. (I know, I am a little late)  I have made it through most of season 3 so far, but I don't think that I can do anymore.  I can't stand Frankie.  That character has ruined the entire show for me.  They really lost me when she "borrowed" the neighbors car during the super bowl.  I didn't even finish that episode.  I did get through the Valentine's one but midway through the Justin Bieber one because I can see where it is going. 

Should I give up all together, or skip to another season where Frankie might be a little more tolerable?

[readster]

3 hours ago, NewGranny said:

Okay, so I have tried watching this show. (I know, I am a little late)  I have made it through most of season 3 so far, but I don't think that I can do anymore.  I can't stand Frankie.  That character has ruined the entire show for me.  They really lost me when she "borrowed" the neighbors car during the super bowl.  I didn't even finish that episode.  I did get through the Valentine's one but midway through the Justin Bieber one because I can see where it is going. 

Should I give up all together, or skip to another season where Frankie might be a little more tolerable?

Shows like this, you watch the first time, but then in retrospect, you kind of wonder how the show lasted 8 years. Plus, the characters get really really bad or do such stupid things. Other people comment on it, yet WON'T do a damn thing. Hell, in the final season, Mike's bosses basically tell him they have been screwing the company and everyone working under them since day 1. Frankie is one flake thing to another to the point both Sue and Brick mock her about it. Hell, Brick gets so bad, that the teachers all act like Brick is out to get THEM instead of them talking and going: "Well, that's Brick, no IEP and he just does odd things I don't think he even understands." It got so SOOOOO tiresome. 

[Perfect Xero]

6 hours ago, NewGranny said:

Okay, so I have tried watching this show. (I know, I am a little late)  I have made it through most of season 3 so far, but I don't think that I can do anymore.  I can't stand Frankie.  That character has ruined the entire show for me.  They really lost me when she "borrowed" the neighbors car during the super bowl.  I didn't even finish that episode.  I did get through the Valentine's one but midway through the Justin Bieber one because I can see where it is going. 

Should I give up all together, or skip to another season where Frankie might be a little more tolerable?

I think Frankie pretty much stays Frankie throughout the show. Sue, Axl, and Brick grow and change some, but the parents pretty much stay the same.

[readster]

On 2/11/2020 at 9:22 PM, Perfect Xero said:

I think Frankie pretty much stays Frankie throughout the show. Sue, Axl, and Brick grow and change some, but the parents pretty much stay the same.

Yeah, Frankie never changes and Mike is still Mike by the end of the series. Even though he gets a promotion. Brick makes small progress, but also loses common sense as the series goes.

[andromeda331]

On 2/11/2020 at 1:23 PM, NewGranny said:

Okay, so I have tried watching this show. (I know, I am a little late)  I have made it through most of season 3 so far, but I don't think that I can do anymore.  I can't stand Frankie.  That character has ruined the entire show for me.  They really lost me when she "borrowed" the neighbors car during the super bowl.  I didn't even finish that episode.  I did get through the Valentine's one but midway through the Justin Bieber one because I can see where it is going. 

Should I give up all together, or skip to another season where Frankie might be a little more tolerable?

Frankie pretty much stays the same. There are some episodes she's less annoying then others. There are still some good episodes during season three and into the next few seasons. But Frankie never changes.

13 minutes ago, readster said:

Yeah, Frankie never changes and Mike is still Mike by the end of the series. Even though he gets a promotion. Brick makes small progress, but also loses common sense as the series goes.

That's what really stinks. I know the Middle's not the only one by a long shot. Shows really need to let their characters grow and evolve. In the beginning it somewhat made sense that Frankie was tired and disorganized with a job and three kids each with problems and issues. Trying to get Axel to school and do his homework, Sue constantly needy, and Brick constantly forgetting to do his homework and well everything and showed Frankie at least trying. But after a few years? Its still the same thing. She can't get organized, she as lazy or even more lazy then Axel, and won't ever get it together and even less reasons for it. She's shown she can sell cars when she really has to. But doesn't. She's bad at that job its no surprised when she does get fired and decides to learn a skill. Only to end up being the same crappy, lazy employee at her next job. It would have been great to see her improving as the years went by. Getting more organized, doing a better job and stop forgetting everything. Especially birthdays. 

[readster]

14 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

 

That's what really stinks. I know the Middle's not the only one by a long shot. Shows really need to let their characters grow and evolve. In the beginning it somewhat made sense that Frankie was tired and disorganized with a job and three kids each with problems and issues. Trying to get Axel to school and do his homework, Sue constantly needy, and Brick constantly forgetting to do his homework and well everything and showed Frankie at least trying. But after a few years? Its still the same thing. She can't get organized, she as lazy or even more lazy then Axel, and won't ever get it together and even less reasons for it. She's shown she can sell cars when she really has to. But doesn't. She's bad at that job its no surprised when she does get fired and decides to learn a skill. Only to end up being the same crappy, lazy employee at her next job. It would have been great to see her improving as the years went by. Getting more organized, doing a better job and stop forgetting everything. Especially birthdays. 

The biggest problem was when they would hammer something into the ground or the fact they would get newer writers who wanted "old traits" back. You have it where Axl all of a sudden regressed to his 1st season self out of nowhere in the final 2 seasons. You had people forgetting Sue so much you thought they had dementia. As for Brick, holy hell, every time they had a teacher go: "You have something against me" from his behaviors. They were all shocked to see he just was odd or had issues no one really took care of. Yet, we were expecting that the school counselors/physiologist just didn't report anything. One episode that was just so odd when they were trying to make a joke about how high school kids don't care until they can. When Sue was in detention for that stupid eating off campus situation. Where the PE teacher goes in that she needs to stop trying to get other kids to start being responsible and tells her that that's never going to happen.

When it should have been: "I like you Sue, but until these kids have their 'crisis moment' you aren't going to change their minds. I've tried and now I have to just hope one day they will get it."  Instead it came across of: "Don't ask and don't try." 

[Kip Hackman]

On 2/11/2020 at 7:12 PM, readster said:

Shows like this, you watch the first time, but then in retrospect, you kind of wonder how the show lasted 8 years.

Given the underwhelming 9th season, I kinda wish it had only lasted 8 years.

Despite that, it was a show that my family & I really enjoyed. But I've never had the desire nor the inclination to revisit it via streaming or syndication.

As far as the progression of characters (or lack thereof), that seems to be something that a lot of sitcoms struggle with. "American Housewife" comes to mind.

It does suck that all the old Middle episode threads disappeared, because there was some great content here.

 

[SnarkySheep]

Finally getting around to watching the last season...

Overall, I think it isn't bad. IMO most shows are pretty bad at wrapping things up; they either do nothing special or else totally overdo it (e.g. every person suddenly realizes their wildest dreams). I like how they worked in last appearances by nearly everyone who was part of the earlier seasons, even Carly stopping by the New Year's party. 

That said, I found the scene with Frankie surprising Brick with 7 slices of cake to "make up" for her forgetting all his birthdays not touching, but completely horrifying and sad. How awful that a teenager is so used to his family forgetting his existence that he's become totally complacent about it? And no, Frankie, buying your kid 7 slices of cake on one random day does NOT, in any way, make up for forgetting his actual birthdays.

[readster]

20 hours ago, SnarkySheep said:

Finally getting around to watching the last season...

Overall, I think it isn't bad. IMO most shows are pretty bad at wrapping things up; they either do nothing special or else totally overdo it (e.g. every person suddenly realizes their wildest dreams). I like how they worked in last appearances by nearly everyone who was part of the earlier seasons, even Carly stopping by the New Year's party. 

That said, I found the scene with Frankie surprising Brick with 7 slices of cake to "make up" for her forgetting all his birthdays not touching, but completely horrifying and sad. How awful that a teenager is so used to his family forgetting his existence that he's become totally complacent about it? And no, Frankie, buying your kid 7 slices of cake on one random day does NOT, in any way, make up for forgetting his actual birthdays.

Yeah, it as really bad, that Frankie for 7 YEARS didn't remember his birthday. Just like the stupid thing with Sue being forgotten by EVERYONE but the PE teacher and the Principal. I mean even Sue made the joke in season 9 after she didn't think about filing for her student aid for her second year at school. It wasn't funny and even more it was THE SAME PEOPLE! Honestly when they magically had Sue's year book signed by everyone including several of her teachers who couldn't REMEMBER who she was, it was suppose to be touching. It didn't make sense. I know many critics said they were waiting for someone to come in and tell the people who couldn't remember Sue: "Did you not take your medication today?" or even: "You don't work here anymore, why are you here?" Same with Brick's teachers NEVER talking to others about Brick's problems and ticks. Constantly going: "He has it out for us." Umm... come on!

[Grundoon59]

I was watching Wheel of Fortune tonight to enter their contest and this week was taking place in Chicago.  The winner introduced his family and friends and there was Jen Ray who plays Nancy Donahue happily waving at the camera as one of the friends.  Very odd but fun!

[SnarkySheep]

On 8/1/2019 at 9:12 AM, readster said:

Brick's lawn chair going away was because the writers at the time thought it didn't make sense to still being using it when they had plenty of dining chairs. Then other writers were: "We miss the chair, it was so funny, let's bring it back." Then having it fall apart and Brick someone how getting unlimited use of payments from Amazon and ordering over 30 chairs. Including him going: "I never knew I could do this!" They really made the Hecks not only lazy, but stupid as time went on just to make the plot work.

Not to mention, Frankie dealing with the situation by telling Brick to "take them to Grandpa Mike's". WTF?? They were brand new chairs! Why not return them for the actual money spent??

 

On 7/29/2019 at 10:59 PM, andromeda331 said:

I got really tired of Frankie's laziness and it really got boring. I wanted so much to see her at any point in the 9 seasons finally put in the effort in something anything. She never does. Not even when decides to learn a skill which was a good idea but then we saw Frankie once again being so bad at it and not bothering to do anything.

Don't forget, in one of the final episodes, Frankie outright admits that she's on Facebook literally all day at work...like WTF?? It seems like she's the only other employee at that dentist's office, so she would be pretty steadily busy, serving as hygienist and probably doing billing, etc. When would she even have time for that?

[readster]

On 8/13/2020 at 10:14 PM, SnarkySheep said:

Not to mention, Frankie dealing with the situation by telling Brick to "take them to Grandpa Mike's". WTF?? They were brand new chairs! Why not return them for the actual money spent??

 

Don't forget, in one of the final episodes, Frankie outright admits that she's on Facebook literally all day at work...like WTF?? It seems like she's the only other employee at that dentist's office, so she would be pretty steadily busy, serving as hygienist and probably doing billing, etc. When would she even have time for that?

Truth on both points. Those chairs could be returned very easily, especially with Amazon's policy or hell get credit for all the money spent for things they need when they fall apart, you know like a: sink, book stand, couch, ect. I mean the chairs that Brick was so easily ordering and apparently getting ONE DAY shipping cost from $50-$75. He easily spend around $800. Then with Frankie, no way would she be able to be on facebook all day at a dentist office being the ONLY other employee there. Maybe at the car lot, because business can very on days, but not for 3 years on a dentist office. Plus the stupidity of her and Mike not knowing you have PAY for the mini bar. 

[LucyEth]

Watching the Final Four episode now, pretty ridiculous that Frankie would force Mike into attending a distant uncle’s funeral and missing the final four.  In the meantime her own parents and sister are not in attendance.  Stupid storyline.  

[readster]

On 8/20/2020 at 2:22 PM, LucyEth said:

Watching the Final Four episode now, pretty ridiculous that Frankie would force Mike into attending a distant uncle’s funeral and missing the final four.  In the meantime her own parents and sister are not in attendance.  Stupid storyline.  

Yeah no kidding, the writers looked like idiots so many times during these episodes. They couldn't even bring up logical reasons why family members who SHOULD BE THERE weren't. 

[Featherhat]

On 8/14/2020 at 4:14 AM, SnarkySheep said:

Don't forget, in one of the final episodes, Frankie outright admits that she's on Facebook literally all day at work...like WTF?? It seems like she's the only other employee at that dentist's office, so she would be pretty steadily busy, serving as hygienist and probably doing billing, etc. When would she even have time for that?

Stuff like that really annoyed me because they went to the trouble of having Frankie fired by Elhert Motors and deciding to do something that she was more interested in and go and do a course for it but she's still the same flake she was at the dentist's that she was at all the other "dead end" money jobs she had. Maybe try to show some difference and character growth? Going back to school at 40+ with a family requires time, money and effort. Seeing her put some effort into an actual career could have mined more comedy than "oops I forgot/couldn't be bothered to do my job" like those patient reminders. 

I re watched a lot of the series recently because I badly needed some harmless comedy that I had already seen and it certainly did its job, but certain things did really stick out to me. Like others here I got completely fed up of the complaining about money but barely ever trying to save or learn the skills they need to fix things themselves. That take out bill, wow. Also frustrating was Sue's entire storyline. Why were ALL the clubs at her schools try out only, were there none that you could just join? And I get that that was the joke but Sue should be memorable to students for various catastrophes and incidents and to staff for being so insanely irrepressible and eager? They might not *like* Sue but she's memorable in that context. Couldn't they had had different teachers having various reactions to that like we did for Brick and Frankie/Mike's reaction to Brick's teachers?

I did like Axl's realisation when he went to College at how much Frankie had to push him. Too bad that didn't actually go anywhere or they didn't do anything with football that took up so much time previously. And WTF was that marriage about? It felt like it came from a completely different show. 

Brick was always going to be tricky when he hit his teenage years. The youngest "quirkiest" kid on family sitcoms almost always are. 

I have to say I really like the Floating Anniversary in S1. That's actually a funny yet very thoughtful and necessary anniversary gift a night to themselves then picking out a new carpet remnant. But due to some circumstances that were out of their control and some that could have been avoided it spirals out of control. 

Edited August 23, 2020 by Featherhat

[readster]

6 hours ago, Featherhat said:

 

I re watched a lot of the series recently because I badly needed some harmless comedy that I had already seen and it certainly did its job, but certain things did really stick out to me. Like others here I got completely fed up of the complaining about money but barely ever trying to save or learn the skills they need to fix things themselves. That take out bill, wow. Also frustrating was Sue's entire storyline. Why were ALL the clubs at her schools try out only, were there none that you could just join? And I get that that was the joke but Sue should be memorable to students for various catastrophes and incidents and to staff for being so insanely irrepressible and eager? They might not *like* Sue but she's memorable in that context. Couldn't they had had different teachers having various reactions to that like we did for Brick and Frankie/Mike's reaction to Brick's teachers?

I did like Axl's realisation when he went to College at how much Frankie had to push him. Too bad that didn't actually go anywhere or they didn't do anything with football that took up so much time previously. And WTF was that marriage about? It felt like it came from a completely different show. 

Brick was always going to be tricky when he hit his teenage years. The youngest "quirkiest" kid on family sitcoms almost always are. 

 

Exactly, that's why when they had Sue with the constant: "Who are you again?" Unless it was the principal or PE teacher, got to the point where you think they were some government experiment going on with the school. Yes, there are clubs you can JUST JOIN and that be it. Also goes back to later on with Brick having the School Nurse's son just SHOW UP and try to out smart Brick because he could. Plus the fact, WHERE WAS THE ADVISOR? It was like on other shows where they had cast members on: school newspapers, film clubs, ect. They either have a teacher who looked like they walked off the street or acted like the teens just ran the clubs. IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT! AS for Axl marriage, that was the writers signing Grammer to a long contract and thinking making her so stupid, she could only dress herself would be funny. When it all backfired after like 3 episodes, they rather just run the episodes into the ground than pay the actress straight out for a FAILED storyline. Even McDerment who played Axl thought the story was completely dumb and even more when they immediately paired Axl with Sue's friend. He said: "Then what was the point if they just wanted to throw me together with Lexi?"

[Kiddvideo]

I think this show handled the kids-go-off-to-college better than any show I’ve ever watched. Kept them involved in the family storylines while giving them independent arcs that allowed character growth.

[nora1992]

What I loved about this show is how real it was compared to every thing else on tv.  Sure, the characters didn’t evolve but look at most of the people in reality don’t change and grow much past a certain age.  This was a show that didn’t have the weekly happy ending, and that felt so real to me.  People had more challenges than successes, but life still went on.  And they found some happiness in less than ideal situations.  

[readster]

11 hours ago, nora1992 said:

What I loved about this show is how real it was compared to every thing else on tv.  Sure, the characters didn’t evolve but look at most of the people in reality don’t change and grow much past a certain age.  This was a show that didn’t have the weekly happy ending, and that felt so real to me.  People had more challenges than successes, but life still went on.  And they found some happiness in less than ideal situations.  

Right and it worked for a long time, even with Axl's look on life, until he got older and he was: "Oh crap, I really can't do this." Even when he fell on old habits at times, but it wasn't giant glaring like say with Brick's lawn chair situation. What started killing the show wasn't that the characters didn't "grow and change" they just became lazier, brain dead and the writers kept bringing back old jokes to try and give themselves "new and exciting stories", which even the cast members later said had them at times looking at the scripts at least according to Eden and McDermonnt: "Why are we going back to this?" While Heaton would just roll with it. The last two seasons were hard to watch as it just became eye rolling. The first five years, while not perfect are great. 

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

I just started watching this series for the first time,  it's at the 4th season I believe . Axel just graduated from high school. Enjoying it so far, I bet many viewers can relate to some of the situations of the day to day Heck family. 

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, One4Sorrow2TooBad said:

I just started watching this series for the first time,  it's at the 4th season I believe . Axel just graduated from high school. Enjoying it so far, I bet many viewers can relate to some of the situations of the day to day Heck family. 

Oh, definitely. There's many moments that remind me of my family and growing up.

[Egg McMuffin]

I thought the show was amazingly consistent over the years. That said, I never watched the reruns, so I wonder how I’d feel if I watched early vs later episodes now and was able to compare them to each other. I remember thinking the Sue/Sean thing during the last couple of seasons was way too drawn out.

I do think they managed to stick the finale. I loved the flash forward at the end, and how the last scene really bookended the pilot.