Felicity Smoak: Bitch With Wifi

[kismet]

I have no problem with her using a machine gun as long as it's not unrealistic like she suddenly becomes a sharp shooter. I don't have a problem w/ LL riding a motorcycle because it's not difficult to learn how to use one. etc.

I read a ficlet that had FS actually become a good shot because she had installed a firing range in the new lair. It was a decent story. Her desire to learn how to shoot was organic to her character & the mission. Apparently, she was in the field and was nearly killed after Dig was shot & unable to protect her.

 

Her shooting the gun in the trailer was logical self-protection in that situation. I see no problem with how it was shown in the trailer, esp since she probably didn't hit much on target. It's likely all just lucky shots. I also think it's important that they show her at least trying to provide basic levels of self-protection. I hate damsels in distress.

 

I actually wouldn't mind if FS became a good shot with a gun. It's something I could see her becoming beyond proficient at, esp if a firing range was installed in the new lair. It's methodical & precise which kinda builds upon her mindset & skils. If she's quick with coding & typing, she probably would be able to get quick, accurate shots in with practice. It would be a logical way for her to provide protection to herself & the team that would not require extensive years of martial arts training or a groupon to the local gym for 3 weeks of boxing.

 

As I type this, I realize that between my secret head canon of her having archery experience & now wanting her to get firearms training - I apparently really want FS to shoot stuff. It must be my ALIAS/Nikita female badassery bleeding over into my hopes/wishes for FS.

[kismet]

This might be a side-effect of reading too many fanfics… but I was wondering in light of FS’s increased professional duties this upcoming season what people thought about her characterization and babbling.  I’m just curious what y’all think.

 

Her lack of head-to-mouth filter and a chronic case of foot-in-mouth disease is well documented. Although I do think it has improved since she has found more confidence in her role on the team & in life. What I don’t understand or get is people who find that she babbles a lot. I guess I never really saw it. She definitely has a lack of filter, but not a lack of shut-off valve. 

 

For me there is a difference. She can definitely talk a lot, but I never really saw her as much of a babbler. To me a babbler is someone who babbles without much to say. FS doesn’t do that to me. She usually has a lot to say, but it’s generally important and not all just babble. She makes accidental innuendos & double entendres, but I never found her to just randomly babble.  If she is nervous she might ramble on, but again it’s more nerves than babble. No offense to Donna Smoak, but to me she came off as a babbler - but to me Felicity just doesn’t have that same problem.

 

IDK, I just hope that as they increase her professional stature, they don’t find ways to get easy jokes out of her character by making her lose her verbal chill all the time. It’s a little off putting when the head of a company is perceived as a babbling brook. It’s adorkable but not professional. I would like to see them do women professionals justice by having FS be kickass in the boardroom and not just an adorkable fish out of water for reasons.

[BkWurm1]

She doesn't babble during interrogations or when things are serious out in the field nor does she blurt out inappropriate comments during meetings so I think we should be good.

[Morrigan2575]

I think fandom and fanfic writers over play the babbling.

Felicity seems to babble when she's emotionally stressed or if her brain is in overdrive figuring out a problem. She's also cut back on the babbling a lot since S1.

She also doesn't seem to find work of any kind emotionally taxing. I've always imagined that Felicity is someone who is confidant in her abilities at work. However, she's less secure when it comes to personal stuff, especially attraction, which is when she tends to babble

Edited September 11, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Guest]

Fic writers definitely go too far with the babbling. Yes, she has done that on the show, although hardly at all last season if I remember correctly. But some fic writers have her babbling every single line or always speaking things out loud that she meant to say with her inside voice. It's seriously annoying and one of my fic pet peeves. 

 

On the show I think she tends to babble when she's nervous or unsure of where she stands. But if she's certain in herself and what she feels or what she can do, she's very strong and direct. Take how she was with Malcolm, for example. She didn't ever babble with him. Not once. 

Edited September 11, 2015 by Guest

[tv echo]

EBR/Felicity has made her first appearance in episode 4 of Vixen (up today), but just as a voice on the com talking to Oliver and not as an animated character yet (she mentions the fern!).

Edited September 15, 2015 by tv echo

[Guest]

Will that fern ever die? It's gonna haunt us for the rest of our lives. LMAO.

 

But yay for Felicity on Vixen! :)

[Chaser]

I know Vixen is around 3x16, but does anyone know if it's before or after?

[tv echo]

More likely before...

-- Per MG, Vixen will take place around episode 3x15 or 3x16 of Arrow. "We knew, of course, at that point that Oliver would be going off to the League of Assassins and changing his costume as a result, so this takes place just right before that." (ComicBook article, page 68 of Starling City Times thread)

Edited September 15, 2015 by tv echo

[AyChihuahua]

The fact that it's set in S3 is why I will not be watching it.

[SmallScreenDiva]

EBR/Felicity has made her first appearance in episode 4 of Vixen (up today), but just as a voice on the com talking to Oliver and not as an animated character yet (she mentions the fern!).

I can't seem to watch on the app.

Does her kiss with Barry get brought up yet? I think MG said Oliver will find out about it

[apinknightmare]

No, not yet.

[wonderwall]

The fact that it's set in S3 is why I will not be watching it.

Vixen is about so much more than Oliver/Arrow/Barry/Flash. I think you're missing out. 

 

I'm really liking the character. Story is fun. I think it's a bit too short. It would've been better if it had 10-15 minute episodes

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, it being set in S3 shouldn't be a deterrent, because it really doesn't have anything to do with Arrow at all.

[AyChihuahua]

Vixen is about so much more than Oliver/Arrow/Barry/Flash. I think you're missing out. 

 

I'm really liking the character. Story is fun. I think it's a bit too short. It would've been better if it had 10-15 minute episodes

I can't even stand to see gifs of scenes from S3. It brings up everything I genuinely loathe and that gave me rage insomnia for months. Maybe I'll wait until we're a few weeks into S4, and if S4 is good enough to lessen my S3 rage I'll try it then. I do love well-drawn female superheroes.

But, if Vixen and Oliver become allies, doesn't it show more cracks re why Oliver didn't just have her and Barry and maybe Firestorm help him kick the LOA's butts back to the Stone Age?

[Morrigan2575]

I can't be bothered to watch Six-5 minute episodes. I'll wait until all 6 are released and watch a 30 minute cartoon instead.

[BkWurm1]

I know Vixen is around 3x16, but does anyone know if it's before or after?

I like to think it is set after 3.16, that's that only time in the second half of the season where Oliver and Felicity were, well not angst free, but the closest thing to normal. 

 

I like Vixen and EBR did her voice over's wonderfully.  I compare it to GG who I still don't think has gotten Barry's voice right. 

[tv echo]

New MG tumblr post from yesterday...

myshows123 asked:
Hey Marc,quick question I watch vixen and I love it but in what time period its in like in the arrow or flash thanks

Vixen happens around Arrow Ep. 315.

http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/post/129197420934/hey-marcquick-question-i-watch-vixen-and-i-love#notes

 

For those who are having trouble viewing the Vixen ep,, Felicity's voiceover debut is basically Oliver contacting her over the comm link:

Oliver: "Felicity, you there."
Felicity: "Just me and my fern - or your fern, well, let's be honest, I'm the one who waters it."
Barry: "Tell her I said 'hi'.
Felicity: "Hi Barry!"
Oliver: "Mari McCabe. I need to know if she was in Central City the night of December 11, 2013."
Felicity: "Miss McCabe was in Detroit the night of the particle accelerator explosion - at least, her credit card was at the Big Belly Burger. She has a thing for their iceberg shake."

Edited September 16, 2015 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

myshows123 asked:

Hey Marc,quick question I watch vixen and I love it but in what time period its in like in the arrow or flash thanks

Vixen happens around Arrow Ep. 315.

 

I honestly think MG doesn't remember where the show was in 3.15.  He said 3.16 earlier and 3.16 makes sense, not so much 3.15 when he goes off to Nanda Parbat on an suicide mission.  So I reject his 3.15 and embrace 3.16 after Felicity and Oliver were on friendly terms again. 

 

Felicity in 3.15 was NOT happy with Oliver and from the Vixen clip that Felicity spoke during, she was more 3.16 Felicity than 3.15 Felicity. 

[tarotx]

Yeah it fit's 3.16 for me so that's when I picture it.

[Guest]

So some guy said this over at the latest GATV roundtable where, once again, to everyone's surprise, they crap all over Felicity:

 

I do think her importance has become overstated. She’s a vital and essential member of the team and of the cast, someone who is earning being a hero in her own ways and own right. Yet, the show moved her so far to the center so that everything had to filter through her, it’s become unbalanced. As a result, her progression has felt insincere. What I loved about the character in Season 1 was that she was clearly an immensely talented and capable person who offered a tremendous amount of experience to Oliver’s and Diggle’s crusade. But her ability wasn’t overblown. Like many tech people I know who are extraordinarily intelligent, Felicity didn’t know everything about anything, and there were times she had to network to figure out some of the stuff Oliver presented to her. It was human, it was believable. Yes, you learn things with experience, but suddenly, they’ve made Felicity the most gifted computer programmer/hacker in the world and someone who can just handily pick up other fields almost by sight, touch, and smell. I don’t say this to pick on her, but it’s the boldest example of convenient writing, a Swiss Army knife to gloss over narrative traps. It detracts from the show and from the character, both turning her into a plot device and seeming to say there’s not enough to her that we can Matrix her abilities whenever we need. Four years in, she should feel like a person not a narrative tool.

 

 

 

I'm confused. Basically all I'm getting from this is that this dude wants Felicity to stay exactly the same as she was in s1. Does he not understand what character progression is?

 

I also don't see how a genius MIT graduate wouldn't be gifted at other things. And it's not as if she can do everything in the history of everything. She's gifted at hacking. That's her thing. And even then she's been unable to do certain things on occasion - in s2 when she couldn't find the bomber and also when some security guy managed to override what she was doing while Oliver and Laurel were trying to steal files on Sebastian Blood.

 

And more to the point, how is Felicity's arc/progression insincere but other characters aren't? Why is it only convenient writing where Felicity is concerned? I could write a list about some of the other characters where this happens but apparently that's okay because comics.

[tarotx]

I haven't read that GATV round table yet but are they still upset that Felicity was able to use the ATOM suit? Do they think it takes away from the mightiness of Ray Palmer if Felicity can fly it with little issue? 

[dtissagirl]

Not that I put any stock on what dudebros of that site say, but this sentence is the one that makes me LMAO until it hurts:

 

What I loved about the character in Season 1 was that she was clearly an immensely talented and capable person who offered a tremendous amount of experience to Oliver’s and Diggle’s crusade.

 

She deserves accolades when her narrative role was to play sidekick to the penises, oops, I mean, male characters. But when she's central to the crusade herself [and in many ways, became the second most important character in this story], THE HORROR.

Edited September 20, 2015 by dtissagirl

[Guest]

I haven't read that GATV round table yet but are they still upset that Felicity was able to use the ATOM suit? Do they think it takes away from the mightiness of Ray Palmer if Felicity can fly it with little issue? 

 

I don't think they like that she helped build the suit either, let alone could fly it. Do they ever think that Ray told her how to use it? And if Ray could fly perfectly the first time (which he did, by flying off the roof of PT) then why couldn't Felicity? 

 

It's weird though because Felicity didn't even build the suit. Ray did. Sure, she had a hand in it but only in the part where she's naturally gifted - computers. They seem to forget that. Now, if Cisco was the one to help Ray with his suit, no one would have a problem with it because he's a guy. The internalized misogyny of this whole argument is pretty damn gross. 

 

 

Not that I put any stock on what dudebros of that site say, but this sentence is the one that makes me LMAO until it hurts:

 

 

She deserves accolades when her narrative role was to play sidekick to the penises, oops, I mean, male characters. But when she's central to the crusade herself [and in many ways, became the second most important character in this story], THE HORROR.

 

I don't put any stock in what they say either, I just felt like talking about Felicity because she's awesome. 

 

And all I see when I read these 'arguments' is bitterness that she's not from the comics but she's become vital to the show in ways other characters never will.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Guest

[lemotomato]

Not that I put any stock on what dudebros of that site say, but this sentence is the one that makes me LMAO until it hurts:

 

 

She deserves accolades when her narrative role was to play sidekick to the penises, oops, I mean, male characters. But when she's central to the crusade herself [and in many ways, became the second most important character in this story], THE HORROR.

There's no reasoning with some people. Before season 3, Felicity was criticized/put down for having no backstory, no friends outside Team Arrow, and no layers beyond being the one dimensional comedic sidekick/cheerleader. Now that she's got all those aspects covered, her critics want season 1 Felicity back. It's a classic case of "haters gonna hate"

Edited September 20, 2015 by lemotomato

[Guest]

There's no reasoning with some people. Before season 3, Felicity was criticized/put down for having no backstory, no friends outside Team Arrow, and no layers beyond being the one dimensional comedic sidekick/cheerleader. Now that she's got all those aspects covered, her critics want season 1 Felicity back. It's a classic case of "haters gonna hate"

 

Exactly. As much as I dislike s3 and certain aspects of what they did to Felicity's character, I have to say that she did become slightly more layered. I know more about her character now. We learned how she deals with grief, why she only worked in IT even though she's gifted for something greater. We learned how strong she is in the face of people she hates, like Malcolm Merlyn, and how she sticks to her guns and her morals. For all of my complaints I can't deny that these things fleshed out her character. 

 

The sad thing is if Felicity stayed exactly as she was in s1, everyone would be moaning that she's not progressing. There's just no winning.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Guest

[Primal Slayer]

When I did my rewatch of Season 1-2, I totally forgot how much I enjoyed Felicity. She was lucky in the fact that she was used to lighten up the show and not add more drama to it. Of course in Season 3 she finally got her turn to add to the drama through her relationship with Oliver, but it was annoying that the writers wasted time putting her in any type of relationship with Ray when it was beyond obvious that it was such used as a stepping stone to get to Olicity. But my main beef isn't with the character itself it is more the writers just continuing to shove her down our throats. 

[lemotomato]

But my main beef isn't with the character itself it is more the writers just continuing to shove her down our throats. 

Can you elaborate on why you feel she was "shoved down [your] throat"? This is not a trick question, by the way. I just keep seeing people say this, and I want to know why it always refers to Felicity, but not all the other supporting characters that got their own storylines/expanded roles. For example, I never see people say "I don't like Sara because the writers shoved her down our throats" or "I don't like Diggle because the writers shoved him down our throats"

Edited September 20, 2015 by lemotomato

[dtissagirl]

There are two things particular to Felicity's narrative role in this story that I find interesting, and that I think is overlooked when people criticize Felicity for "taking over" or "ruining" the show:

 

1. She didn't start out from a place that demanded change. Oliver started his story as a PTSD suffering killing machine. Thea started out as a rebellious teen junkie. Roy started out as a thief. Sara started out as s party girl sister backstabber. For them to achieve hero status, they needed drastic change. Neither Felicity nor Diggle started out like that. They came to the story fully-formed [not as characters, but] in their utility to the main story. Writing development for a character that already fullfills their narrative role perfectly is actually super hard stuff, and it's pretty clear that the writers struggled A LOT with figuring out how to do it with both Felicity and Diggle. Because they can't trace an easy step Doing Shitty Things ---> Motivation to Change ---> HERO arc for them.

 

2. Felicity accumulated narrative roles as the story went, BECAUSE ANOTHER CHARACTER FAILED IN HERS. Laurel failed as Love Interest. And the writers then decided that Felicity was gonna be the new Love Interest, without losing her previous narrative role. This hasn't really happened to many other character on this show. Merlyn actually got a second narrative role as in S3, because he's the Main Adversary, and now they also made him the Parental Figure in the absence Moira. But most other characters have their single role in the story, because hello, they work as such.

 

Accumulating functions = more narrative importance + more screen time.

 

But that's not Felicity's fault. It was a writing choice, due to the planned original love story failing.

 

So, in a way, no matter how many dudebros online say that Felicity "ruined the show", I'm fairly certain the writers room sees it exactly the opposite way: they had a tremendous problem, and Felicity FIXED the show.

[Guest]

When I did my rewatch of Season 1-2, I totally forgot how much I enjoyed Felicity. She was lucky in the fact that she was used to lighten up the show and not add more drama to it. Of course in Season 3 she finally got her turn to add to the drama through her relationship with Oliver, but it was annoying that the writers wasted time putting her in any type of relationship with Ray when it was beyond obvious that it was such used as a stepping stone to get to Olicity. But my main beef isn't with the character itself it is more the writers just continuing to shove her down our throats. 

 

I'll agree with you that putting her with Ray was absolutely pointless and didn't service Felicity (or anyone well) but shoving her down your throats? How exactly? Because she's a vital part of the team and they would be a bit lost without her? Because she's instrumental in Oliver becoming GA? I don't really understand what you're saying tbh.

[Primal Slayer]

They have used her to help prop up Flash/ATOM/Arrow and now possibly Mister Terrific, they used her importance to Oliver to try to get the upper hand in the negotiations with Lyla/Nyssa, had her stand up to Ra's and live to tell the tale, had her pilot the ATOM suit, the writers also always try to gear things back towards her in interviews. Of course I haven't watched Season 3 since it first aired so I am going on feelings that I had during the season. But it is a mix of Season 3 and bts.

 

The writers failed at making Laurel into a good love interest, they just crashed and burned that ship since the first episode. I don't hate her but just as people dislike certain characters, people shouldn't be surprised that people would dislike Felicity. 

[Guest]

Accumulating functions = more narrative importance + more screen time.

 

But that's not Felicity's fault. It was a writing choice, due to the planned original love story failing.

 

So, in a way, no matter how many dudebros online say that Felicity "ruined the show", I'm fairly certain the writers room sees it exactly the opposite way: they had a tremendous problem, and Felicity FIXED the show.

 

THIS. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I probably wouldn't be watching this show without Felicity. I thought the show was eh, okay and then Felicity discovered Oliver's secret and it was like everything clicked into place. That whole episode was one of the best of s1 at that point and everything sort of came to life. Just her interacting with Diggle and being bought onto the team. It was effortless. She saved it for me personally. Both DR and SA have said they couldn't make the show without Felicity and I 100% agree. 

[Guest]

They have used her to help prop up Flash/ATOM/Arrow and now possibly Mister Terrific, they used her importance to Oliver to try to get the upper hand in the negotiations with Lyla/Nyssa, had her stand up to Ra's and live to tell the tale, had her pilot the ATOM suit, the writers also always try to gear things back towards her in interviews. Of course I haven't watched Season 3 since it first aired so I am going on feelings that I had during the season. But it is a mix of Season 3 and bts.

 

The writers failed at making Laurel into a good love interest, they just crashed and burned that ship since the first episode. I don't hate her but just as people dislike certain characters, people shouldn't be surprised that people would dislike Felicity. 

 

 

No one's saying you shouldn't dislike Felicity. But I think it's unfair to hold how they use Felicity BTS and for show promotion against her. She's a popular character. Like it or not, she gets clicks and RT's. Of course they're going to promote someone who gets them greater coverage. That's just PR.

 

And that also applies to how they've used her on The Flash and also with the ATOM. That's more out of benefit to those characters than to Felicity's character. As for Mister Terrific, I don't know how his character is going to be used and I hope Felicity won't be used to prop him like she was with Ray in s3, but it makes sense he would be with Felicity at PT because he's a genius and he works with computers. Who else would he be better paired with to ease into the show?

[jay741982]

They have used her to help prop up Flash/ATOM/Arrow and now possibly Mister Terrific, they used her importance to Oliver to try to get the upper hand in the negotiations with Lyla/Nyssa, had her stand up to Ra's and live to tell the tale, had her pilot the ATOM suit, the writers also always try to gear things back towards her in interviews. Of course I haven't watched Season 3 since it first aired so I am going on feelings that I had during the season. But it is a mix of Season 3 and bts.

 

The writers failed at making Laurel into a good love interest, they just crashed and burned that ship since the first episode. I don't hate her but just as people dislike certain characters, people shouldn't be surprised that people would dislike Felicity.

And using Felicity to shove Ray down our throats was a crime. I'm not surprised there are people who dislike or Hate Felicity at all but some of the reasons are silly. They Bitch about her crying last season but she had good reasons too. Her ex came back and was Pyschotic. Oliver dicked her around. And they ignore how much others cried too.

[dtissagirl]

It is very true that the writers won't stop talking about Felicity in interviews.

 

But, wouldn't you? If you're a writer-showrunner on a TV show, with a planned five year arc that depended on a love story that catastrophically failed... and suddenly you stumbled upon a character that you feel is a delight to write, and an actress that made the president of the Warner Bros call you and demand for more of her? Would you ever stop talking about what is a huge success story? Because I wouldn't.

 

I mean. I do understand why people who dislike Felicity are annoyed that she's obviously the writers' favorite. But I also understand perfectly WHY she is the writers' favorite.

[Guest]

I mean. I do understand why people who dislike Felicity are annoyed that she's obviously the writers' favorite. But I also understand perfectly WHY she is the writers' favorite.

 

It must be fun as a writer to not be beholden to the weight of comic book history or whatever. With Felicity (and Diggle) they can basically just write what they want. No wonder they all like to write for her. She's a blank slate. 

[Primal Slayer]

No one's saying you shouldn't dislike Felicity. But I think it's unfair to hold how they use Felicity BTS and for show promotion against her. She's a popular character. Like it or not, she gets clicks and RT's. Of course they're going to promote someone who gets them greater coverage. That's just PR.

 

And that also applies to how they've used her on The Flash and also with the ATOM. That's more out of benefit to those characters than to Felicity's character. As for Mister Terrific, I don't know how his character is going to be used and I hope Felicity won't be used to prop him like she was with Ray in s3, but it makes sense he would be with Felicity at PT because he's a genius and he works with computers. Who else would he be better paired with to ease into the show?

Like I said, I totally enjoyed her in S1/2, not as much in Season 3, when I rewatch it again more moments of why probably will return or maybe they wont. I don't dislike Felicity but even bts can push people to just feel like it is to much. It's like hearing the same song on the radio over and over and over again. You can start out liking it but hearing it so many times can make the sound of it can people people feel annoyed.

 

I know due to Terrifics background that pairing him with Felicity is the best option but just as it is annoying that they have Cisco name every hero/villain, it is just as annoying that they pair every new up and coming hero with Felicity. 

[kismet]

I personally have no problem with her becoming a more centralized figure in the OQ/TA narrative. I think organically over the past 3 years they have shown how her role has grown from simple IT help to core member of TA and now major Partner with a capital "P" to OQ in all aspects of his life. I have no problem with that.

 

I do feel like in s3 when they expanded her role to make RP/ATOM happen in some ways they overstretched her qualifications. And a lot of her s3 arc was very Palmer-centric, so it did feel like a completely different FS at times. It did sorta feel like she went from being a computer genius to now all around TECH & engineering guru. Granted there is some overlap between computers and technology, but there is also a big gap between them as well. Frankly, her becoming VP so quickly did seem a little overstepping. Or maybe it just needed to be better explained in-script why RP chose FS over other candidates. If she had been seeking the job that might have also been better. Instead it seemed like RP just plucked her out of obscurity for special snowflake reasons. And in the end, when RP handing her the company it does sorta feel like writers conveniently promoted her for s4 plot purposes.

 

I feel like in-show the writers have not addressed specifically what FS's degrees & training is in. We know MIT, we know computers - perhaps cyber security. If she is going to take over RP's position as head of PT, then I hope the writers address that she has the knowledge & degrees to handle that job. Unlike Palmer or Queen, her name is not on the company header so nepotism cannot be used to explain her meteoric rise. I'm not saying she doesn't deserve it, I'm just saying in-show I think they need someone to say that she is actually qualified for the job. Just like in-show it was stated that she was over-qualified for her EA position. I feel like a simple board meeting establishing her as the new head could do this, with having there be some dissent amongst the shareholders - but ultimately her proving with her resume and maybe an impassioned speech why she is qualified to take over PT and is the best candidate regardless of whatever paperwork she signed with RP.

[Primal Slayer]

It must be fun as a writer to not be beholden to the weight of comic book history or whatever. With Felicity (and Diggle) they can basically just write what they want. No wonder they all like to write for her. She's a blank slate. 

The thing is, if the writers wrote good new stories with the comic based characters people wouldn't mind the changes they make. But thus far they have yet to do that. It's like with Count Vertigo, they changed the character drastically from his comic counterpart and have failed both times at making him an interesting villain that should be one of Arrows main villains but then the writers want to pull the "Green Arrow doesn't have that many interesting villains". Every villain that is specific to GA they either mess up or under use. China White should be another major villain for the show.

 

When they had Felicity be the one to create Brother Eye or whatever, I both rolled my eyes at them making her be the creator of such a HUGE villain and them wasting such a huge villain.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Primal Slayer

[SmallScreenDiva]

I've always enjoyed the quote from Greg Berlanti (I think it's GB) about how Felicity solved a problem they didn't even think they have. Now, of course, he was referring at that time to Oliver's need for tech support, but it could very well be about Felicity/Emily saving the show by providing Arrow 1/2 of a romance worth rooting for.

I can see why some folks would consider Felicity as someone being "shoved down" people's throats. She was never supposed to be more than just IT support. She certainly wasn't supposed to have the screen time (second only to Oliver). And she certainly wasn't supposed to be this important to the narrative, the hero's journey. I guess I can imagine how frustrating it is especially if folks came to the show with a vastly different expectation.

Edited September 20, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva

[lemotomato]

They have used her to help prop up Flash/ATOM/Arrow and now possibly Mister Terrific, they used her importance to Oliver to try to get the upper hand in the negotiations with Lyla/Nyssa, had her stand up to Ra's and live to tell the tale, had her pilot the ATOM suit, the writers also always try to gear things back towards her in interviews. Of course I haven't watched Season 3 since it first aired so I am going on feelings that I had during the season. But it is a mix of Season 3 and bts.

 

The writers failed at making Laurel into a good love interest, they just crashed and burned that ship since the first episode. I don't hate her but just as people dislike certain characters, people shouldn't be surprised that people would dislike Felicity. 

I'm not surprised that people would dislike Felicity. I was pretty much counting on that happening the minute they let her step out of the sidekick role. 

 

I guess I don't understand why she's the only supporting character gets flack for having her role expanded while other characters, like Diggle, get accepted and loved. Diggle went from being Oliver's sidekick/bodyguard to being his mentor, best friend, and brother. I'm pretty sure one of the reasons Tommy got killed off was because Diggle filled his role in the narrative better. Lyla became a recurring character for his storyline, and he gets an on-screen wedding and family. He's given ties to ARGUS and HIVE. He had a recurring nemesis (Deadshot). He's gotten at least two character-centric episodes each season. But I've never ever heard people complain about Diggle the way they complain about Felicity.

[Guest]

I do feel like in s3 when they expanded her role to make RP/ATOM happen in some ways they overstretched her qualifications. And a lot of her s3 arc was very Palmer-centric, so it did feel like a completely different FS at times. It did sorta feel like she went from being a computer genius to now all around TECH & engineering guru. Granted there is some overlap between computers and technology, but there is also a big gap between them as well. Frankly, her becoming VP so quickly did seem a little overstepping. Or maybe it just needed to be better explained in-script why RP chose FS over other candidates. If she had been seeking the job that might have also been better. Instead it seemed like RP just plucked her out of obscurity for special snowflake reasons. And in the end, when RP handing her the company it does sorta feel like writers conveniently promoted her for s4 plot purposes.

 

I feel like in-show the writers have not addressed specifically what FS's degrees & training is in. We know MIT, we know computers - perhaps cyber security. If she is going to take over RP's position as head of PT, then I hope the writers address that she has the knowledge & degrees to handle that job. Unlike Palmer or Queen, her name is not on the company header so nepotism cannot be used to explain her meteoric rise. I'm not saying she doesn't deserve it, I'm just saying in-show I think they need someone to say that she is actually qualified for the job. Just like in-show it was stated that she was over-qualified for her EA position. I feel like a simple board meeting establishing her as the new head could do this, with having there be some dissent amongst the shareholders - but ultimately her proving with her resume and maybe an impassioned speech why she is qualified to take over PT and is the best candidate regardless of whatever paperwork she signed with RP.

 

It's funny, I thought it was pretty obvious from the beginning that Felicity was vastly overqualified for her job in IT. They even made a point of her saying she was the best in the building and was even doing the job of her superior who was terrible. So for her to finally be doing something that's fitting of her qualifications seems accurate to me. I mean, I really didn't like that she was made to be EA in s2. It felt beneath her. I understood the in show reasons but I didn't like it.

 

As for Ray choosing Felicity over other candidates, wasn't it explained that he'd heard of her achievements? I also think it was obvious that someone looking into buying a company would do research on its employees and would probably note the rise of one employee from IT to EA and all of her qualifications. Doesn't seem so much 'special snowflake' as it does common business sense, IMO. I don't like the way that happened because I still think Ray buying out the company she worked for was gross but I understand why he wanted her to work for him considering everything we know about Felicity's skills. I personally don't need little scenes to explain every detail. Some things are self-explanatory. 

 

Oh, but as for Ray handing over PT, yeah, I don't disagree that's for plot purposes but so is a lot of things. I let plenty of other things slide on this show for plot reasons. 

Edited September 20, 2015 by Guest

[Guest]

The thing is, if the writers wrote good new stories with the comic based characters people wouldn't mind the changes they make. But thus far they have yet to do that. It's like with Count Vertigo, they changed the character drastically from his comic counterpart and have failed both times at making him an interesting villain that should be one of Arrows main villains but then the writers want to pull the "Green Arrow doesn't have that many interesting villains". Every villain that is specific to GA they either mess up or under use. China White should be another major villain for the show.

 

When they had Felicity be the one to create Brother Eye or whatever, I both rolled my eyes at them making her be the creator of such a HUGE villain and them wasting such a huge villain.

 

Felicity didn't create Brother Eye. Cooper was Brother Eye. Felicity simply created a virus that he used. 

 

And I guess it doesn't bother me because I don't read the comics. And they've made it clear, repeatedly, that this show isn't following the comics exactly so I understand that they use certain elements from the comics and apply them however they want to. 

[Primal Slayer]

I'm not surprised that people would dislike Felicity. I was pretty much counting on that happening the minute they let her step out of the sidekick role. 

 

I guess I don't understand why she's the only supporting character gets flack for having her role expanded while other characters, like Diggle, get accepted and loved. Diggle went from being Oliver's sidekick/bodyguard to being his mentor, best friend, and brother. I'm pretty sure one of the reasons Tommy got killed off was because Diggle filled his role in the narrative better. Lyla became a recurring character for his storyline, and he gets an on-screen wedding and family. He's given ties to ARGUS and HIVE. He had a recurring nemesis (Deadshot). He's gotten at least two character-centric episodes each season. But I've never ever heard people complain about Diggle the way they complain about Felicity.

Diggle was given ties to other agencies and that is about all. He was given ties to Deadshot who has appeared like twice. He isn't a major factor in the creation of anyone or anything. He didn't create Argus/HIVE, he hasn't been the major turning point for any hero or villain, he certainly isn't talked about that much bts promotion. He is the ONLY character that I think that no one really has a problem with which is great. He isn't a major factor for any drama and what drama they have finally given him looks like it will be resolved within 2 episodes. 

[Morrigan2575]

Felicity has a Masters Degrees in Computer Science and Cyber Security. She also won some super prestigious award, since Wells knew of her accomplishments.

That's all canon and stated on Flash and yes it socks that it was on Flash, not Arrow. However, theye are intent on building a unified TV Universe so it's aLloyd the same canon

Edited September 20, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[kismet]

It's funny, I thought it was pretty obvious from the beginning that Felicity was vastly overqualified for her job in IT. They even made a point of her saying she was the best in the building and was even doing the job of her superior who was terrible. So for her to finally be doing something that's fitting of her qualifications seems accurate to me. I mean, I really didn't like that she was made to be EA in s2. It felt beneath her. I understood the in show reasons but I didn't like it.

 

As for Ray choosing Felicity over other candidates, wasn't it explained that he'd heard of her achievements? I also think it was obvious that someone looking into buying a company would do research on its employees and would probably note the rise of one employee from IT to EA and all of her qualifications. Doesn't seem so much 'special snowflake' as it does common business sense, IMO. I don't like the way that happened because I still think Ray buying out the company she worked for was gross but I understand why he wanted her to work for him considering everything we know about Felicity's skills. I personally don't need little scenes to explain every detail. Some things are self-explanatory. 

 

Oh, but as for Ray handing over PT, yeah, I don't disagree that's for plot purposes but so is a lot of things. I let plenty of other things slide on this show for plot reasons. 

Overqualified for her role in IT, yes. But there is a big difference from being overqualified for a position and then being made VP, which she might have been underqualified for. I'm just saying in-show it would be nice for them to specifically address that she has the qualifications for the job, especially now that she will be running the company. I think it would be a good way for the show to stop some of the haters from saying that she is being made more important or her "abilities are being overblown". If the show addressed these concerns in a factual matter, than the haters can still hate but at least there will be evidence that proves their opinion is just opinion & not fact. Right now, they can make a case that FS's abilities are being overblown because the show has never specifically declared what her degrees, abilities & training is in. Her creating a super Brother Eye virus or being part of its code writing, absolutely believable. Her running an international multi-faceted tech conglomerate needs a little flashing of her resume to make detractors not believe it is just for plot.

 

ETA - Thanks @Morrigan2575 for that info. I just wish they would include that info in ARROW in a few lines of dialogue in s4.

Edited September 20, 2015 by kismet

[Primal Slayer]

Felicity didn't create Brother Eye. Cooper was Brother Eye. Felicity simply created a virus that he used. 

 

And I guess it doesn't bother me because I don't read the comics. And they've made it clear, repeatedly, that this show isn't following the comics exactly so I understand that they use certain elements from the comics and apply them however they want to. 

To me, it is useless to just throw away these characters that could turn into something so much more. They like to do all these throw aways to the biggest characters and sometimes it just helps in limiting them in terms of future stories. What they do with all the Ted Kord products is probably the best they've done since the audience has been introduced to the character to a certain degree that if he ever is able to show up in person, it makes it so much cooler. But I guess that is how Harry Potter and all those major book fans feel when watching these adaptions of movies. It is bittersweet in the end.

[apinknightmare]

Apart from helping with the Hood/Arrow/Green Arrow, revolution, Felicity had a hand in helping Ray create the missing components of his suit. He went to her already wanting to be a hero. Who else has she had a hand in "creating?" We haven't seen her with Curtis Holt yet, and the EPs have said he's not becoming Mr. Terrific yet. Felicity had one villain out of however many come after her specifically...

To me, it is useless to just throw away these characters that could turn into something so much more. They like to do all these throw aways to the biggest characters and sometimes it just helps in limiting them in terms of future stories. What they do with all the Ted Kord products is probably the best they've done since the audience has been introduced to the character to a certain degree that if he ever is able to show up in person, it makes it so much cooler. 

 

The Ted Kord/Ferris Air shoutouts are the best, because they're forced to be subtle and consistent with them, because they're probably not ever going to be able to get Ted Kord or any kind of Green Lantern actually on the show. Once they were able to do that, they'd blow their load with those characters like they do with any other comic character they're given permission to use. Greg Berlanti's "why wait for this storyline when we can do it now" philosophy hurts a lot with this show, especially when it comes to the "big names." 

 

They really just want to be able to say 'so-and-so awesome comic character is coming to Arrow' to get people excited, and then they mess it all up. I personally don't care because I don't read any of these comics, so it's whatever to me.

[AyChihuahua]

The very first thing Felicity did at PI was get info off a destroyed hard drive that everyone else had failed to do. That was clearly stated in-show.

I don't get the issue with her being good at more than strictly computers, either. She's obviously well-rounded, since she made an off-the-cuff reference to Hamlet in her first interaction with Oliver. The vast majority of really really smart people I have known (and I went to law school in Boston, home of a huge number of amazing schools) are very curious by nature. Hardly any PhDs in hard sciences know only their own narrow niche. They were always reading about scientific advancement far outside their own specialties, because that's just how they're wired.

It seems apparent that if you don't like her, you feel she's being shoved down your throat. If you do like her, you want to see more of her. I feel exactly that way about Ray the Cane Toad and Laurel. Every scene with either of them feels like too much. That's just human nature.

[jay741982]

Like I said, I totally enjoyed her in S1/2, not as much in Season 3, when I rewatch it again more moments of why probably will return or maybe they wont. I don't dislike Felicity but even bts can push people to just feel like it is to much. It's like hearing the same song on the radio over and over and over again. You can start out liking it but hearing it so many times can make the sound of it can people people feel annoyed.

 

I know due to Terrifics background that pairing him with Felicity is the best option but just as it is annoying that they have Cisco name every hero/villain, it is just as annoying that they pair every new up and coming hero with Felicity.

I agree it is annoying that every new one gets paired up with Felicity but to me the only one of those I detested was Ray Palmer cause of the way the writers made him a Gary stu and he only shared scenes with Felicity most of the season. He wasn't any kind of likeable to Mr

e untill he starting interacting with Oliver and Dig.