Felicity Smoak: Bitch With Wifi

[wonderwall]

I think we're getting our wires crossed here. Imo critique and hate are two completely different things. In this forum, all characters get critiqued, and that's what's really great about this place. And sure, there's a major dislike in here for some characters -- Laurel, Palmer and Ra's come to mind -- but there's no hatred. No one wishes violence upon them. No one wishes death upon them. When people make sexist remarks against Laurel here, they're called on it.

 

I sort of disagree with you here. I think there's a lot of Laurel/Ray critique on this site, but there's also hate. But it usually gets shut down fast from the mods. Now there's very little Laurel hate, mostly critique .

[Happy Harpy]

The problem with Felicity in S3 was imo that she was Podlicity for a good part of the season. And for me the problem is only on the paper, because during the episodes I actually watched? She was the same smart, kickass, likeable character as I've known her to be.

 

The only truly OOC moments I was witness of were:

-her not kicking 50 Shades of Ray in the nuts when he barged in her house uninvited while she was in her pajamas.

-her accepting Oliver's nonsense about not being able to be with her in The Calm, while keeping her on the team therefore in danger. Didn't compute, doesn't compute, and I'm afraid, will never compute.

 

I have no problem with Felicity crying and being emotional. If you look back, she actually reacted like this in S1 (while the Glades were crumbling around her) and S2 (re:Sara being alive and Oliver not having told her family). It's not Felicity that changed, it's the tone of the show. Felicity as a character only reacted to it and took the toll. For this, imo she wasn't out of character.

It was obvious that a compassionate, sensitive and relatively innocent character as she is -opposed to people hardened by their going through wars or war-like situations, like Oliver, Diggle and Sara- would react this way. She cried for reasons, she cried for others, not in self-pity or in a self-centered move. Moreover, it never prevented her from getting the job done, and damn well done.

 

S3 Podlicity was, on the paper, even worse than ToD Podlicity -who at least cared about being useful to Team Arrow before everything else. But I should say "Proplicity", because her worst OOC moments are for me related to Ray and Laurel.

I remember that at the beginning of the season, we were discussing the possiblity of Felicity spilling the beans about Sara's death to Quentin -and I don't think that anyone truly believed that she'd go as far as helping Laurel dissimulate the truth. And it's not only her fans...IIRC (I didn't check back, so I could be wrong) some people were ready to blame her for telling Lance. It seemed such a given that she wouldn't lie, after what we had seen onscreen. Especially considering the great relationship with Quentin that had been established for a season +. So, for me, this is the biggest, most blatant occurence of OOC...in order to make her all chummy with Laurel, it seems.

As for Palmer...argh, don't even get me started. She had to play second fiddle to him instead of having her own storyline and from the moment the Real Felicity Smoak called him a stalker, she wouldn't have given him the time of the day imo. Simply reading that she apologized to that asshole made me queasy. I never, ever want to see that and I'm thankful to the shows I watched to the bitter end for having taught me better.

I love the relationship between Oliver and Felicity, platonic or non-platonic (not talking about the non-relationship we were "treated with" this year) but I won't buy the S3 DVDs. I don't care that I won't own the DVDs with their first kiss or their first time together. Better not, than owning DVDs with her drinking the Ray Kool-Aid.

 

*thinking of kittens and Felicity roofing Oliver to save him and I never thought I'd applaud any character doing that, and Felicity saving Oliver in that ridiculous costume but she made it look cute like a unicorn*

So yes, for me Felicity wasn't a problem for S3. But S3 was a problem for Felicity.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[dtissagirl]

I sort of disagree with you here. I think there's a lot of Laurel/Ray critique on this site, but there's also hate. But it usually gets shut down fast from the mods. Now there's very little Laurel hate, mostly critique .

I think people here who hate Laurel and Palmer tend to hate the writing and the acting choices, which imo are fair game. I mean, I remember that instance when some folk thought it was funny that Laurel got brutalized, but it got shut down real quick. But it doesn't go down the sexist/violent route here. It's more snark and mockage, I guess. As opposed to comment sections, and places like Reddit and Facebook, which are downright scary, especially towards women -- both fictional, and female fans.

Edited June 14, 2015 by dancingnancy

[statsgirl]

The thing I can't accept that Felicity did this season, that the Real Felicity would not do, if apologize to Palmer at the end of 317 instead of telling him where to stick his hypocrisy and lack of faith in her. But the "you have a light in you that  Sara didn't" comes close, as does helping Laurel lie to Quentin.  I have to try to fanwank  Felicity as having major PTSD for that, and even then it doesn't track.

What seems to have increased in crazy volume post 320 is that kind of hatred towards Felicity. LOTS of folk wishing her dead. Lots of folk putting her down for being a woman in love and in a relationship with the protagonist.

In my experience of fandoms, that's the one that will kill you every time.  (The on-line hatred of Ziva on NCIS because of her relationships with Tony and Gibbs was so bad I had to stop posting on boards about the show.  She's been gone for 2 years now and last Jamuary Cote de Pablo did an interview posted on TV Line about her miniseries, the Dove Keepers.  There are now over 300 comments overwhelmingly positive, and people are still posting "we miss you Ziva, the show isn't the same without you" even five months later.  On-line reaction doesn't necessarily reflect general audience reaction.)

Edited June 14, 2015 by statsgirl

[dtissagirl]

Yeah, it's been my experience as well. The "romance kills the show" crowd gets louder with their Moonlighting Curse ~scaredy cat~ fears, and it's always always ALWAYS the lady character that is the target of hatred. Add in a love triangle, or a lady character rival, and the hatred just multiplies. Felicity got all of it in one season: elevated to Love Interest, triangle [two, if you count Oliver/Felicity/Palmer + Oliver/Felicity/Arrow], and while Laurel is in no way a rival on the show, she is in the eyes of fandom, because comics.

Edited June 14, 2015 by dancingnancy

[wonderwall]

Things Felicity did that I absolutely hated: 

• Forgive Ray and letting him off easy in episode 17
• Help Laurel deceive Quentin and keep him in the dark regarding Sara's death
• Telling Ray that Barry was the Flash (that was such a WTF moment for me)
• Outing Barry in front of Malcolm
• Telling Laurel that she has light in her that Sara never had even though she doesn't know Laurel at ALL

 

And it's interesting to me that most of the moments when I didn't like Felicity at all was when she was interacting with Ray/Laurel... Smh

[Chaser]

Things Felicity did that I absolutely hated: 

• Forgive Ray and letting him off easy in episode 17
• Help Laurel deceive Quentin and keep him in the dark regarding Sara's death
• Telling Ray that Barry was the Flash (that was such a WTF moment for me)
• Outing Barry in front of Malcolm
• Telling Laurel that she has light in her that Sara never had even though she doesn't know Laurel at ALL

 

And it's interesting to me that most of the moments when I didn't like Felicity at all was when she was interacting with Ray/Laurel... Smh

I agree with everything but the outing Barry to Malcolm. She didn't use his full name or follow Barry with how is Central City and did the police department let you out of work and how is the Harrison Wells at Star Labs working for you? Just saying Barry! is fine with me. 

 

 

Yeah, it's been my experience as well. The "romance kills the show" crowd gets louder with their Moonlighting Curse ~scaredy cat~ fears, and it's always always ALWAYS the lady character that is the target of hatred. Add in a love triangle, or a lady character rival, and the hatred just multiplies. Felicity got all of it in one season: elevated to Love Interest, triangle [two, if you count Oliver/Felicity/Palmer + Oliver/Felicity/Arrow], and while Laurel is in no way a rival on the show, she is in the eyes of fandom, because comics.

The worst cliches possible. I would also add the dark side of showing a life outside of the lead, you end up separating the character. It was double trouble because that 'life' was a spin-off pitch for the third wheel. 

 

What were they thinking?

[wingster55]

The worst thing she did imo was calling Oliver emotionless after Sara's death. She apologized but it was still the worst. 

[tarotx]

You might be talking about the hate but it's the talking about characters flaws that I commented on. All the characters get criticism that can seem like hate.

Laurel gets hate even in this forum. Here some wish that she would just leave Starling and the show so not quite as evil. And I (a confessed Sara fan) personally wishes she was given a new mask identity-Manhunter(shifty eyes but it fit's Laurel's Arrow character better imo). Sara got a lot of death wishes as well. Some of the things said about her will make the blood boil since she was eventually killed off.

Felicity just joined the club.

It was a quick turn around from getting accused of being a Mary Sue but mostly beloved to her being accused of being an agency stealing whiner. Which did give me whiplash. I personally loved Fecility in 3.20. The cry scene with Laurel was not needed for Fecility's character but KC's fans would have been even madder if both Laurel scenes were removed.

The other criticism Felicity has gotten is that the show takes her OOC. Both pro and anti Felicity fans seem to throw that about. I think that deguised some of the small but growing Felicity critics.

But Felicity also has gotten a lot of positive attention. EBR will probably have a lot more opportunities now that she's getting Attention as a leading lady. Which she deserves. Even if you think vocal emotional scenes are her sore spot. I think a lot of us know they are for most actors.

Edited June 14, 2015 by tarotx

[HighHopes]

The worst thing she did imo was calling Oliver emotionless after Sara's death. She apologized but it was still the worst. 

 

She just lost a friend after going through a somewhat of a break up with another friend. Her emotions weren't 100% in place at that moment. You say things that you don't mean in the heat of the moment when you're not thinking and your emotions are a mess. God knows I've said things to people I care about when my emotions were all over the place. 

 

She apologized immediately afterwards, and even said it was out of line. If that is the worst thing that Felicity has ever done then she is a much better person than I am. 

 

Besides  (imo) Oliver was kind of being emotionless and shutting her out so it wasn't completely out of nowhere for her to say that. 

Edited June 14, 2015 by HighHopes

[wingster55]

That's true (although I would debate her being friends with Sara) but it's still an awful thing to say regardless of apology..somethings don't sting less even with them. 

[dtissagirl]

The worst cliches possible. I would also add the dark side of showing a life outside of the lead, you end up separating the character. It was double trouble because that 'life' was a spin-off pitch for the third wheel. 

 

What were they thinking?

Right? For me it goes even further, because I'm convinced these writers think there's only one single type of true romance for Oliver -- the star-crossed lovers trope that was intended for Laurel/Oliver and failed -- so they had to turn Oliver/Felicity into that via artificial means. And the brunt of the fabricated shit fell on Felicity. Like an anvil.

I resent the violent/sexist hatred towards Felicity, but boy do I violently hate the writers for their internalized sexism in believing women are interchangeable, that allowed them to turn Felicity's story on its head because they don't know how to properly write different kinds of romance.

[wonderwall]

That's true (although I would debate her being friends with Sara) but it's still an awful thing to say regardless of apology..somethings don't sting less even with them. 

 

It WAS an awful thing to say and I think that's sort of the point because Oliver was expecting her to be at 100% like he was even though she just lost a friend (maybe they weren't good friends, but they were friends nonetheless. She cared about Sara enough to be affected by her death) and she wasn't. It wasn't fair for Oliver to expect that of her. And Oliver's face when she said it goes to show just how affected he was by that comment.

 

But I gave her a pass because she was grieving for Sara and going through her own internal dilemma that Sara's death sort of inspired. I also don't mind that she said it because it spurred Oliver into not wanting to die alone in the foundry. It was the episode I gave every character a pass, actually. 

Edited June 14, 2015 by wonderwall

[tarotx]

Felicity and Sara had bonding moments. At least a real growing friendship. Fecility was already disappointed in how Oliver responded emotionally to the half-date&"break up" so seeing him cold over Sara was a bit about that as well. Which I found believable since nothing is stand alone especially emotional reactions.

[wingster55]

She had friendly moments...but I'd say it was not quite there..I actually think she only has three friends (or four if we count Ray). Oliver (now more than that), Diggle and Barry. She's had moments with Sara, Laurel, Thea, Iris, Caitlin, Cisco and Roy.but I wouldn't call them friends yet. 

[HighHopes]

She had friendly moments...but I'd say it was not quite there..I actually think she only has three friends (or four if we count Ray). Oliver (now more than that), Diggle and Barry. She's had moments with Sara, Laurel, Thea, Iris, Caitlin, Cisco and Roy.but I wouldn't call them friends yet. 

 

In a world where we still talk about a test for media/tv/movies to see if two women can have a conversation without talking about a man, I'm going to take my female friendships wherever I can. I agree that Sara and Felicity were not the best of friends, but they were still friends or at least on their way to becoming friends. Canonwise Felicity cared about Sara and considered her a friend. So we have to go by that and not by our interpretations. 

[wonderwall]

She had friendly moments...but I'd say it was not quite there..I actually think she only has three friends (or four if we count Ray). Oliver (now more than that), Diggle and Barry. She's had moments with Sara, Laurel, Thea, Iris, Caitlin, Cisco and Roy.but I wouldn't call them friends yet. 

 

That's totally your call tbh. Imo it isn't that difficult making friends. They had moments on screen, but they also went on missions off screen, Felicity took a bullet for Sara, they probably spent a lot of time together in the foundry because she was basically living there with Oliver at one point... To me they were friends, but they weren't close. 

[wingster55]

Hmm..true but some of the platonic relationships are so deep like the Oliver-Diggle-Felicity tandem that I kinda judge them on that scale. It's a bit different on Flash..there are more deeper ones I think.

[lemotomato]

She had friendly moments...but I'd say it was not quite there..I actually think she only has three friends (or four if we count Ray). Oliver (now more than that), Diggle and Barry. She's had moments with Sara, Laurel, Thea, Iris, Caitlin, Cisco and Roy.but I wouldn't call them friends yet. 

Felicity and Roy just had moments? He went to her for advice about Thea's farewell letter and his Mirakuru nightmares, comforted her during Sara's death, and when he left for good, she was the only one that gave him a goodbye hug. If none of that amounts to a friendship, then I don't know what criteria is being used.

[wingster55]

Those are literally just moments...and most happened in the first 5 or 6 episodes of the season. It does suggest a closeness..but we really didn't see much with them on a consistent basis. And unlike another shortchanged friendship in Felicity and Diggle..there's no history of prior scenes in s1 or 2. IMO

[wonderwall]

Hmm..true but some of the platonic relationships are so deep like the Oliver-Diggle-Felicity tandem that I kinda judge them on that scale. It's a bit different on Flash..there are more deeper ones I think.

 

If you judge everyone on that scale then no one would be friends on that show ;) Those three are super close, they're like family. I really hope Thea creates a bond with Diggle and Felicity as well in season 4 tbqh. 

[Carrie Ann]

Well, she gets into trouble (on the show) about secrets a lot.  For telling Barry about Oliver (yelling) and Ray & Malcolm about Barry (snark) and for not telling Oliver about Ray or Ray about Oliver (both yelling).  While she wasn't necessarily at fault in most of these instances, the show does give her a hard time about secrets.  Tell and you get crapped on.  Don't tell and you get crapped on.  What to do, what to do?  (Personally, all the secret keeping is probably one of my least favourite aspects of the show.  It just makes everyone look bad.)

 

She also got hella big consequences for making that program in college and letting her dodgy boyfriend get his paws on it.

 

In S2 when she went out rashly on her own on two separate occasions (once when the Count nearly killed her and once in the Clock King episode), the consequences were pretty dire in the first case and got her yelled at by Oliver in the second, so I think she got called out on her rash behaviour.  I don't think she did anything like that in S3.  The only time she went out by herself (in 3x19), there was no expectation that she'd be in danger and everyone knew where she was going.  It was more bad luck than rashness in that instance.  So she did learn from some of her mistakes.

 

I was really only thinking about S3 when I asked about other examples, so I'll deal with those first: you're right that Felicity not telling Ray/Oliver about the other was another mistake that the show presented as one. And she did pay for it for the extent of that episode, where Ray and Oliver were mad at her (Oliver was only allowed a second to be mad though, whereas Ray got to be mad for the whole ep and got an apology!) and at each other. I disagree that the show really took seriously her casually identifying Barry to Ray & Malcolm, because of the way it was used as a joke and there were no consequences.

 

And yep, the virus thing was a mistake but, a) it happened pre-show, and b) she didn't intend for it to be used the way Cooper wanted to use it and in fact tried to prevent that use. So she still had the moral high ground.

 

For the S2 examples: I disagree that the show was judging Felicity as being in the wrong in 209. The show very clearly felt that bringing Barry in to save Oliver's life was the right thing to do--only Oliver felt it was wrong. In fact, he's the one who has to learn a lesson about teamwork and trusting people in that ep. I agree that going out on her own to lure the Count and Tockman were shown to be mistakes, though in the second case, she kinda gets away with it by saving Sara's life and bringing Tockman down.

 

Basically: I don't see another character yelling at or being upset with Felicity = the show is presenting her as being in the wrong, or presenting her mistake as important. On the contrary, in many instances where her "consequence" is Oliver getting mad at her, the show actually believes Oliver is the one in the wrong. And I get it, the show is about him, so his growth takes priority, but this season it started to get old to have Oliver presented as always in the wrong, especially when I disagreed, or at least felt that others were also wrong. I hope I'm making sense here!

[statsgirl]

I think the cut scene between Felicity and Sara after Slade invaded show them as being close -- Felicity told Sara how this was the first place she had felt at  home and with a family and now Slade has ruined it.  But the show is called "Arrow" so I will give them a pass on that.  The other episode showing they were close, beyond Felicity being so accepting of Sara and Sara surprised at it, was the infamous ToD where Felicity was not jealous of Sara being with Oliver (the show took extra pains to highlight that and still people didn't get it) and proud she took a bullet for her.

 

Diggle has been in her corner since she was calling Oliver on his bad stories (e.g. about the Royal Flush gang and the sports drink, both time giving Diggle lots of opportunity to snark) and he was amused/impressed when she walked out on Oliver in Dodger.  Felicity returned the favour by trying to get Oliver to apologize to  Diggle after he broke trust in Home Invasion.  (This makes it harder for me to forgive Diggle for being all Team Oliver this season.)

 

In Guilty, we saw that Felicity was close to Roy as an equal (Oliver was close to Roy but as a mentor).

 

We've had indications that Felicity talks on the phone to Caitlyn on a regular basis (e.g. Felicity asking about Ronnie) but again, the show is called Arrow so those get short shrift.

 

Felicity has next to no relationship with Thea, as shown by Thea saying that she never realized there was something going on between Felicity and Oliver.

 

The one I cannot accept is Felicity close to Laurel because that went form minus 30 (Laurel being consistently rude and dismissive to Felicity) to 100 because Plot.

 

 

It WAS an awful thing to say and I think that's sort of the point because Oliver was expecting her to be at 100% like he was even though she just lost a friend (maybe they weren't good friends, but they were friends nonetheless. She cared about Sara enough to be affected by her death) and she wasn't. It wasn't fair for Oliver to expect that of her. And Oliver's face when she said it goes to show just how affected he was by that comment.

 

But I gave her a pass because she was grieving for Sara and going through her own internal dilemma that Sara's death sort of inspired. I also don't mind that she said it because it spurred Oliver into not wanting to die alone in the foundry. It was the episode I gave every character a pass, actually. 

This 100%.  Oliver deals with emotions by compartmentalizing.   They were both wrong in that scene, Oliver for telling Felicity to stop being so upset and get going on her 'A' game when she was the only one there doing anything to find Sara's killer and for being so narcissistic about thinking he has to do it all, and Felicity for accusing him of having no emotions.

 

But it was for plot reasons -- to get Felicity out of the lair to start setting up Ray's route to being The Atom.  If they had had a scene where Oliver and Felicity talked like adults, they could have made up and got back to their old friendship but the show needed Felicity to be propping Ray, not Oliver.   (Another thing I'm bitter about, that after Sara, Oliver reached out to mend his relationships with every single person he cared about except Felicity.)

Edited June 15, 2015 by statsgirl

[wingster55]

If you judge everyone on that scale then no one would be friends on that show ;) Those three are super close, they're like family. I really hope Thea creates a bond with Diggle and Felicity as well in season 4 tbqh. 

I think Oliver and Thea are close, albeit with an advantage. I'd like Felicity and Thea but I actually would prefer Thea be closer to Laurel. 

[kismet]

Two things-

1. I don't think Oliver was dumbed down at any point to incorporate Felicity. I think s3 saw a slight increase in dumb OQ choices primarily for plot purposes. Perhaps he was more emotionally compromised at points & that helped dumb him down. But that was not done for the benefit of Felicity's character this or any other season.

2. In Sara episode, both OQ & FS sad cruel things in an emotionally charged situation. They also both immediately apologized them, so therefore I will not hold that scene against either of them. They both had far more "seriously?" & "WTF?" Moments this season.

[fantique]

I still yet haven't had an actual fact based argument that Oliver was dumbed down for Felicity that was even remotely convincing. Every time the person cites instances and I point out that EVERYONE disagreed with Oliver, not just Felicity and yet she's being singled out as the cause of his recurring stupidity. Never mind that it happens every year.

The only instance that is left, when removing all the occurrences where Felicity disagreed along with everyone else, is the finale pep talk. Setting aside the fact that it's basically a show tradition at this point (so why the sudden disapproval of it?), who else was going to give him a pep talk? Diggle was pissed at him, Roy is gone and Laurel is hardly the pep talk person on the show. Even if Felicity didn't always fill that function, at that moment, she was the clear choice to give a pep talk. Some might say "well, why does he need one?" Because of the plot hole that is the LOA/RAS/MM. Nothing to do with Felicity. He had a stupid ass plan that was derailed and his big idea was to commit suicide... The dude NEEDS a bloody pep talk.

Oliver had to be dumb as rocks for the entire LOA plot to work. Sorry but the dumbed down for Felicity thing is just in people's head. I've had that conversation multiple times and we always end up here. Now, people have the right to feel however but when saying "I had a problem with Felicity because Oliver was dumbed down for her" I just have to point out to the person that he was dumbed down for literally everyone. So that problem with Felicity probably comes from somewhere else. This is entertainment, we are allowed to feel however we want to. BUT when expressing your opinion on a forum further than a feeling or impression, the critique will in turn receive critique. That's just the nature of discussion. There are posts that I don't agree with but like because the poster is expressing their feelings and that's their right.

If a poster says I don't like Felicity because X and it's an inaccurate statement about the show, I just say "well, that's not actually the case because this, this and this". Has their dislike disappeared? No, nor should it but at least I pointed out that the causality they established is not the what's happening, otherwise the dislike wouldn't still be here.

I enjoy coming here to discuss because I realise what I like and why. Sometimes it's just an instinctual reaction to a character, and others, it's certain parameters that have always resulted in a specific reaction from me. That's what I imagine is the fun of being on a forum made for critiquing TV. If someone doesn't want their statement "judged", they can't try to make it an objective observation. For example, I freaking hate Ray Palmer. I don't even try to act like it has any rationality or come up with reasons why I hate him, I just do and when discussing something that involves him, I make others aware of it. It's ok to talk about subjective stuff. That's an interesting and worthwhile conversation to have.

I just want to have one conversation with someone who says how they feel about a character as they come across to them without trying to rationalise it. It's ok not like characters even if it's for no reason one can think of. It's ok to have an impression that's different. In fact simply stating how one feels might get others to say "you know what? I feel the same! Now let's talk about that." Sometimes, a poster expresses a sentiment I share but they try to add stuff that is just not what happened onscreen and it turns me off from even staring a conversation.

Anyways... Just me catching up on the conversation about critique. I personally find it a good thing that there are points of contention over a character because it helps me reevaluate how I feel about them, especially when it's a character I like (I.e: Felicity). I think posters mostly have been good about not being "haters" here.

[foreverevolving]

I've been seeing A LOT of people who hate romance, and hate 'shipping, and hate 'shippers transfering all of their hatred to Felicity. And a whole lot of it comes off mysoginistic as hell too. I honestly have no problem with people hating Felicity for whatever reason, but the sexist language that's coming along with it is fucked up.

Because she's not Laurel, therefore the stupidity that is Laurivler (seriously I can never remember how to write that name) from comic canon can not exist so... yea. I could be wrong though.

 

True but Oliver could've learned that skill, the week before he was rescued. I don't know..as has been pointed out many things on this show defy realism...this could be one of them (which I don't fully agree with)..it's on par with Felicity expected to be a leader for a company with 100+ employees (which takes exceptional leadership qualities..which as you all know I don't believe she has

 

I know it was said in previous posts by other but... No, you can't learn Coding in a week (I tried! HTML 4 was the bane of my existence in my mid teens and that's the easy one of computer languages!!) unless you are an actual computer geek. FYI computer wise i'm a little bit more knowledgeable than Oliver...maybe I can do it in a month - if I fully apply myself to it by doing nothing else. If you ask most code writers they will tell you they got into coding at a pretty young age (early teens usually). you need to know several computer languages to hack into restricted servers, let alone highly restricted servers like CIA, FBI and so forth..

I never for one second EVER believed Oliver knew how to break into any gov agency, I always assumed, through his vest fortune, managed to bribe someone to sale him the right kind of computer with the right kind of software. which is why, while I was shocked to discover Oliver got off the island, I wasn't shocked it ended up being a spy agency like ARGUS- it just help click all the pieces from the pilot into place.

 

I really want Felicity to struggle being the CEO. I don't want to see her succeed at first. I want her to fumble. We don't know how she's going to be like running a company. So I don't think it's fair to say that she'll be amazing at it. 

 

I would absolutely love for that to happen. what I would like to see happen is Felicity actually getting some advice from Oliver. I've always had conflicting view points regarding Oliver and QC. on the one hand the man was probably groomed to some degree to eventually take over the company, so I can't imagine "shop" wasn't talked about at house, and Oliver not shadowing his dad at some point, and not hanging around the office as a kid- which will mean Oliver must have observed absorbed the basics of running QC... So I always thought that he had at the very least the basic knowledge of how to run the company. On the other hand, I don't think he had any desire pre island, or the state of mind post island to WANT to run it. him running the company in S02 was purely because Moira was in jail! had she been able to I fully believe Oliver would have been happy to let her continue to run it, I mean look at S01, when Walter went MIA who did the board petition to take his place? Moira, not Oliver but Moira!!

I think, maybe, if he didn't have his energy reservoirs drained due to his night time activities, he would have been able to be a far more successful CEO. I think that while he was thrusted to take the CEO mantle in S02 because he understood the importance of it, there was a part of him who felt right at home there because of that importance.. the problem wasn't being at QC, the problem was how to make QC his, how to utilize QC as a company for the things that interested & mattered to him as opposed to what interested & mattered to Robert and Moira.

Do I think Oliver can be a good CEO? Yes, sure why not. IF!! he could find a way to make the company his own rather than his fathers`.

However! at this point I am more interested (as a viewer and specifically a female viewer) at seeing Felicity take the reins while Oliver take on a different position at the company, maybe run the company Charity foundation - that would work with his desire to help others which will make him feel happy that he is contributing to society and to the company, as well as doing his family name proud. 

[AyChihuahua]

Things Felicity did that I absolutely hated: 

• Forgive Ray and letting him off easy in episode 17
• Help Laurel deceive Quentin and keep him in the dark regarding Sara's death
• Telling Ray that Barry was the Flash (that was such a WTF moment for me)
• Outing Barry in front of Malcolm
• Telling Laurel that she has light in her that Sara never had even though she doesn't know Laurel at ALL

 

And it's interesting to me that most of the moments when I didn't like Felicity at all was when she was interacting with Ray/Laurel... Smh

Talking about Ray's sexual prowess in front of Barry and his friends.  Including, I believe, Wells?  Okay, let's talk about our boyfriend's ability to give it to us good in front of a famous genius scientist.  Gross as hell.  People talk about her innuendos in S1 and S2 a lot, but they really weren't that bad, except for a couple, which were only in front of Oliver and/or Digg.

 

And she didn't just forgive Ray, she apologized to him.  That will make sense...never.

 

Oh, and her absolutely terrible hair and makeup in CC.

[Password]

Oh, and her absolutely terrible hair and makeup in CC.

I will never forgive her for this.

[AyChihuahua]

I will never forgive her for this.

Her worst transgression of the season.  She looked like a 35-year-old fading former Texas beauty queen.

 

I wasn't aware that there was an argument being made that Oliver's stupidity was somehow Felicity's fault.  In-show, his stupidity was his own fault.  Out-of-show, his stupidity was the stupid plot's fault.  I have to disagree strongly with Kismet that he was somewhat dumber this season...I think he was dumb as unbuttered toast, pretty much from beginning to end.  Dumb to protect/not suspect Malcolm, dumb not to tell Thea about Malcolm, dumb to make her hang out with Malcolm, dumb to believe Malcolm when he claimed the LOA would blame Thea, dumb to believe Malcolm would out Thea and then turn around and state that Malcolm never would, dumb to fight Ra's on Ra's terms, dumb to put so much stock in stupid fortune cookie sayings such as "only the student blah blah bullshit-comic-philosophy-cakes," dumb to team up with Malcolm for swordfighting tips, dumb to go back to NP bc of his wounded male ego, dumb to actually consider RAG's offer (bc sure, the League of Assassins can definitely be turned into a tough guy version of the junior league, JFC get two brain cells to rub together, Oliver), dumb not to realize it wasn't really an "offer," dumb to team up with Malcolm AGAIN, dumb to leave all his loved ones totally unprotected knowing RAG was after them (Felicity was the target in the mayor's office...wonder if RAG would have offered the LP for her, instead?), dumb to take the offer, beyond dumb to have a plan consisting of "I'll join the LOA knowing they're going to raze SC to the ground in some fashion of which I am not yet aware but when I become aware I shall devise a plan to defeat them, or at least the outline of a plan," dumb not to see that RAG was setting up TA to figure out who was the traitor, dumb to come up with the crashing-the-plane plan, with ONE GODDAMN PARACHUTE RIGHT THERE READY TO GO WHEN RAG NEEDED IT, and dumb to go fight RAG again on RAG's terms (seriously moron, call Waller and drone strike the dam, JFC).  I'm sure I've missed a few examples of his utter and unbearable season-long stupidity, but pretty much none of it was bc of Felicity.  All those concussions maybe finally got to him.

Edited June 15, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[BunsenBurner]

He was really really dumb. I concur!

Edited June 15, 2015 by BunsenBurner

[kismet]

"Her worst transgression of the season. She looked like a .... fading former Texas beauty queen."

"I wasn't aware that there was an argument being made that Oliver's stupidity was somehow Felicity's fault. In-show, his stupidity was his own fault. Out-of-show, his stupidity was the stupid plot's fault. I have to disagree strongly with Kismet that he was somewhat dumber this season...I think he was dumb as unbuttered toast, pretty much from beginning to end."

-----------

Oh no Oliver was dumb. Definitely dumber than s1&2. But was dumb for plot purposes as u laid out beautifully. But this is not his thread, so I didn't want to elaborate earlier. My point was simply that his being dumb had nothing to do with Felicity. Her & his intelligence complement each other, not compete with each other. She brought necessary skills to the team.

Totally right about FS's appearance on that episode of the flash. They made her behavior juvenile & her appearance physically old. It was bad!

Edited June 16, 2015 by kismet

[Ceylon5]

I've been thinking about the point that lots of people have made that Felicity didn't really get a storyline this year, and, after comparing what she did this season with things she's done in seasons past, and realising that apart from her romantic life, she essentially just got saddled with not-very-good reruns all season, I'm inclined to agree.  Even if I disliked the storylines for Laurel and Thea, they at least got to do things they've never done before.  Felicity and Diggle were just treading water for the most part, aside from some action in the romance/family department and some OOC moments required for the propping of others' storylines.

 

If they had really been serious about giving Felicity her own life outside of the Arrow cave and Oliver, they would have let her start her own business or allowed her to get a job at a company that had no connection to Oliver at all, giving her something that was entirely and uniquely her own.  And they wouldn't have used her to simply replay what she did for Oliver in S1 & S2 by being the 'genius behind the superhero' for Ray.  That didn't develop her character - she's already done that storyline and we didn't need to see it again.  Likewise, by making Ray an Oliver knock-off it made any relationship she had with him actually about Oliver, which again doesn't develop her character.  While people do sometimes have a "type" that they're attracted to, I thought that Felicity's attraction to Barry, who is nothing like Oliver, gave Felicity far more character development than simply shoving another salmon-ladder loving superhero-in-the-making at her.  While I don't hate Ray as so many others do, I think that Felicity's entire storyline with him was intentionally made to mirror her relationship with Oliver, just with Ray being intended to come off better than Oliver in some key areas (like giving her a job appropriate to her skills, being open to dating her, etc.).  Of course, having screwed up his opening moves, causing the audience to hate him even more than it would otherwise have done just for being Oliver's rival, this never really came across effectively, which then had a knock-on bad effect on how people viewed Felicity's choice to be with him.  In any event, the writing for Ray was actually more about Oliver and his artificially manufactured relationship problems with Felicity, than it was about Felicity's identity or growth.

 

Part of the Ray problem was because they insisted on wrapping all of Felicity's non-Oliver stuff up in only one new person.  To grow her character beyond being someone who only hangs out with and helps a proto-superhero 24/7, their choice was not to give her a non-Oliver-related job (or better yet, show that she now has the courage and confidence to start a business of her own), friends outside of Team Arrow, a boyfriend not connected to either her work or Oliver, and so on, but to make her into someone who... you guessed it, now hangs out with and helps two proto-superheroes (and Barry on the side) 24/7.  They moved her sideways from doing all the same stuff she's always done for Oliver for Ray as well.  That's not character development, people!  She didn't even work in a different office from the one she did last year (though, importantly, she's now in the VIP part of it)!  

 

Thank goodness for Felicity's mother, because without her, Felicity really would have gotten nothing new or unique all season.  One of the reasons why I like her to hang out with The Flash people is because it's so nice to see her with other people, chatting with Caitlyn, geeking out with Cisco, bonding with Barry - it expands her circle and gives her some people who speak her language to interact with and who aren't complicated relationship-wise (like Ray who was expected to be her boss, colleague, geek friend, lover, etc. all in one, because they were too cheap, too lazy, or too uninterested to do a proper job with Felicity's personal life).

Edited June 16, 2015 by Ceylon5

[Ceylon5]

Sorry to post twice in a row, but I wanted to weigh in (wordily as always) on the subject of expertise (e.g. Felicity on computers or Oliver with the bow).  I read a book named Outliers, by Malcolm Gladwell, that very convincingly argues that for a person to become a true expert in anything, they have to devote a minimum of 10,000 hours to purposefully and single-mindedly practising it with the intent of getting better at it. 

 

Anyone can learn basic XML code or how to play chopsticks on the piano or the basic rules of chess or how to hit a target with a bow and arrow in just a few hours; less if you’re talented.  That doesn’t really mean much; it’s just where we all start.  It takes many hours to go from beginner to being really good at something, and a whole lot more to go from being good to being a chess master or a solo violinist or an Olympic medallist.  The difference between the good and the great is not about talent but simply about the amount of time they put into doing that thing.  To quote from the book: “…once a musician has enough ability to get into a top music school, the thing that distinguishes one performer from another is how hard he or she works.  That’s it.  And what’s more, the people at the very top don’t work just harder or even much harder than everyone else.  They work much, much harder.” And after mentioning studies in various fields as diverse as basketball and fiction writers: “No-one has yet found a case in which true world-class expertise was accomplished in less [than 10,000 hours].  It seems to take the brain this long to assimilate all that it needs to know to achieve true mastery.”

 

So what does 10,000 hours even translate into?  Well, if you practised one skill for 5 hours every day, 365 days a year for 5.5 years, you’d have 10,000 hours under your belt.  This is why Felicity can be considered a computer expert – she’s been taking computers apart since she was 7 – that’s 18 years of probably spending a lot more than 5 hours a day working with both computer hardware and computer software (those should probably be considered two distinct skills, but the time she’s put in is enough to master both of them and then some).  And it takes a true expert to be good enough to hack into very secure networks (like banks or government databases).  The vast majority of people who code a lot and have a lot of computer experience are still not capable of breaking into secure networks.  It takes the real outliers, the exceptional hackers, to do that.  Which is what makes Felicity so special. 

 

That’s why people complained about Oliver being able to do that in the Pilot – even if he had learnt a fair bit about computers over the years, there was just no believable way to make that level of expertise a part of his skill set.  (Not that the sequence made any sense at all – to hack a bank account you’d need to hack into the bank’s server, not some random bad guy’s laptop.)  It’s also why so many of us object to the insta-Ninjas – both Oliver and Sara put in their 10,000 hours and that’s why their skills are exceptional.  The insta-Ninjas simply haven’t had the time yet.  Even practising for 15 hours every day (which isn’t really possible because for practice to be meaningful, you can’t do too much at once), it would still take 2 years to hit 10,000 hours. 

 

Felicity isn’t just able to do what she does because she’s brilliant, but because she devotes her whole life to it.  Computers are her world, her language, her friends.  Oliver just isn’t interested in that stuff and he has no need to be, because he’s got Felicity.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Ceylon5

[BunsenBurner]

Ceylon5 The server wouldn't let me give you a thumbs up. I definitely agree with the 10,000 hours to be at someone's best. This is why I was so shocked when Roy and Laurel went out instead of Diggle who had 3(?) tours of duty in special forces. Felicity, Oliver, Nyssa, Sara and Malcolm also fit the bill.

The only way to become insta superhero is to be a meta human or come from another planet. If you are holding down a full time job it can't work that way.

Edited June 16, 2015 by BunsenBurner

[dtissagirl]

One thing I really enjoy about Felicity's expertise is that she seems to be very aware of what she can and cannot do. When Barry showed up, she wanted him to stick around because she needed his expertise to solve the robbery at Applied Sciences. When she had to do the [ugh, dumb] virtual autopsy on Sara, EBR played Felicity as being very tentative about the whole process. When Roy thought he killed Sara, Felicity again was tentative, and told Oliver she tested and retested stuff, and then she plain didn't know how do go about the DNA thing, and asked Caitlin for help.

I feel like I can believe in her computer abilities, and her research abilities, not just because of what we've seen her do, but because we also see her limitations.

[olicityfan25]

Exactly. They at least show us her limitations. With others we're just supposed to expect that even if they get knocked down they will defeat the bad guy the next day. It doesn't work like that.

[kismet]

To add to DancingNancy, in my field the scariest professionals are the ones that don't know what they don't know and are too afraid to admit it, ask questions or ask/accept help. What I generally always appreciate about Felicity is she does not seem that way. She generally knows her limitations or what she is not as familiar with and is willing to accept/ask for help. She doesn't just bulldoze ahead because she is genious and geniouses are supposed to know this. She pauses and asks questions. It's one of the reasons I'm not concerned about how they handle Palmer Tech situation because I think that is a good skill to have, especially as a leader. So if something is out of her skill/knowledge base I know she will ask for help, even if it is off camera.

 

It's also one of the reasons I found LL's transition to mask so frustrating, because I felt there were tons of opportunities for her to admit her limitations & ask for help - which the writers/actors ignored. Instead, they made her seem like she was just insta trained warrior without the realistic or even TV-realistic time is takes to actually train & become proficient nevermind excel beyond that. However, LL just bulldozed ahead because she had the mask she therefore she was now a super hero. And frankly, it was just not believable. I feel like they did something similar in Roy's journey, but at least he had mirakuru at the begininning. And then when he came back from the mirakuru OD he seemed to be more appreciative of the learning/training process. 

[BkWurm1]

then I also want the show to acknowledge that cruel streak Felicity possesses

 

I think this needs to be clarified.  Felicity does not have a cruel streak. She does not pull wings off flies or drop gossip to stir up friends and watch them fight.  She does not laugh at other's misery.  She does though at times of stress blurt out incredibly cutting and hurtful things.  And I think this is in keeping with Felicity's filter problem. 

 

Horrible things that we do not say flash through many (all) of our minds and if we are not compromised by emotions or exhaustion or substances or being evil, we try to keep the really hurtful stuff bottled up and we don't go to the low blow.   Doesn't always work though and if we are to believe that Felicity has a hard time maintaining a filter between mind and mouth on her best day, it stands to reason on her worst days some pretty awful stuff could come out.  Still not excusing it.  The apology to Oliver during Sara was fully warranted and he probably deserved one in 3.17 for that crack about being glad if Ray was dead but I don't think it means that she has a cruel streak. 

 

A mean streak perhaps, but cruel IMO connotes taking pleasure in other's pain while mean IMO could encompass thoughtless lashing out.  Yes, I get a bit obsessed about words. 

 

That’s why people complained about Oliver being able to do that in the Pilot – even if he had learnt a fair bit about computers over the years, there was just no believable way to make that level of expertise a part of his skill set.

 

Even from the Pilot I just assumed he "acquired" the tech from someone and since it was a ONE TIME THING, it really is one of my pet peeves to hear it claimed that Oliver doesn't really need Felicity's help and was dumbed down so she could be on the show (as proved by the ONE high tech arrow) 

 

The thing is even if I 100% thought it at all reasonable that Oliver Queen could have realistically had the skill to create on his own a super high tech arrow, we have 68 out of 69 episodes saying that no, he could not do such a thing.  Three years and 68 episodes have passed where Oliver only has a passable knowledge about computers and one episode where all we see is him shooting a high tech arrow that the show never even said he created or designed and yet still this one high tech arrow is used as "proof" that Felicity is ruining Oliver by forcing the writers to dumb him down.  

 

My rant spills over less from what was said here than what I keep encountering elsewhere. 

[Ceylon5]

Yes, I also always assumed that Oliver had purchased the hacking tech in the Pilot.  I was more distracted by the fact that none of the bad guys noticed the blinking arrow stuck conspicuously in the wall and by the fact that it made no sense to hack that computer (via bluetooth, I assume?) when Oliver actually wanted access to bank accounts.  Also, I will find it forever aggravating that on TV, when money is transferred out of bank accounts, they're apparently programmed to empty one cent at a time, so you can see the money going out on a countdown and with a little receding blue line, instead of using, you know, basic maths and deducting one lump sum from another in a single step, as in the real world.  The whole scene made no sense, so isn't worth analysing really!

 

As for Felicity being "cruel" or whatever, I think that’s a bit reductionist.  There are very few people in the world who never ever say anything unkind in the heat of an emotional argument.  It's virtually impossible not to.  It doesn't mean that every single human being is basically mean or cruel, but rather that we are human and therefore not perfect.  Felicity is not perfect.  She gets upset and lashes out in fights just like the rest of us.  She lives an incredibly stressful life, which apparently does not include a great deal of sleep, and if she occasionally screws up, then I think we can cut her a little slack.  Plus, we all know that things she says don’t always come out the way she intends.

 

The fight about emotions in 3x02 and her comment about Oliver not having feelings was actually very on point.  He’d just broken up with her because he’d apparently decided to be the robot version of himself rather than the human version, so I got exactly what she was saying – and she elaborated more in the rest of that conversation about what she meant.  I saw nothing intentionally unkind about any of it.  She had a right to have a say, however obliquely, about how she viewed Oliver’s decision to not be with her and everything that that implied about his state of mind.  The comment in 3x17 when Oliver called her boyfriend unstable and likely to get himself killed (that Oliver would like that) was actually an extension of this same fight. Again, she elaborated what she meant (that Oliver didn't want her with Ray, not that she thought Oliver literally wanted him dead), and he basically agreed that that was true.  What bugs me so much about Oliver’s stance is that he’s implying that he (and Ray) can’t "save the city" and be in a relationship but that Felicity can.  It’s like he doesn’t view her contributions and the risks inherent in them to be equal to his or Diggle’s or Ray’s.  Jackass.  I’d be a hell of a lot meaner to him than she’s been (which I think is hardly at all) if I were in her shoes.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Ceylon5

[apinknightmare]

What bugs me so much about Oliver’s stance is that he’s implying that he (and Ray) can’t "save the city" and be in a relationship but that Felicity can.  It’s like he doesn’t view her contributions and the risks inherent in them to be equal to his or Diggle’s or Ray’s.  Jackass.  I’d be a hell of a lot meaner to him than she’s been (which I think is hardly at all) if I were in her shoes.

 

I don't think his beliefs about Felicity being able to be in a relationship have anything to do with how he views her contributions at all. If we're going by the theme of the season and the very reason why Oliver told her he couldn't be with her in the first place, it's because in his mind he (and Ray too, by wearing a mask) was living as two different people - Oliver and the Arrow, and he couldn't dedicate his life to one and still have the other*. IMO, if anything, it's a compliment to Felicity in that he doesn't see that same conflict in her. She's Felicity when she's in the Arrow cave, and she's Felicity when she isn't - a hero at all times. She's actually in the place that Oliver was getting to in the finale by beginning to realize that the hero part of him and the Oliver part of him are all the same person. 

 

*Not at all trying to make the argument that his reasoning wasn't stupid!

Edited June 17, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Ceylon5]

Haha, yes, I was going to add a disclaimer that I blame all this on incredibly stupid writing/plotting rather than Oliver (poor guy's the victim here), but this whole "Because of the life I lead.." nonsense just makes my head ache, and my brain shorted out on all the stupidity before I got there!

[Carrie Ann]

I think this needs to be clarified.  Felicity does not have a cruel streak. She does not pull wings off flies or drop gossip to stir up friends and watch them fight.  She does not laugh at other's misery.  She does though at times of stress blurt out incredibly cutting and hurtful things.  And I think this is in keeping with Felicity's filter problem. 

 

Horrible things that we do not say flash through many (all) of our minds and if we are not compromised by emotions or exhaustion or substances or being evil, we try to keep the really hurtful stuff bottled up and we don't go to the low blow.   Doesn't always work though and if we are to believe that Felicity has a hard time maintaining a filter between mind and mouth on her best day, it stands to reason on her worst days some pretty awful stuff could come out.  Still not excusing it.  The apology to Oliver during Sara was fully warranted and he probably deserved one in 3.17 for that crack about being glad if Ray was dead but I don't think it means that she has a cruel streak. 

 

A mean streak perhaps, but cruel IMO connotes taking pleasure in other's pain while mean IMO could encompass thoughtless lashing out.  Yes, I get a bit obsessed about words.

 

I wasn't thinking very hard about word choice when I posted, and mean is probably better, sure. 

 

As for Felicity being "cruel" or whatever, I think that’s a bit reductionist.  There are very few people in the world who never ever say anything unkind in the heat of an emotional argument.  It's virtually impossible not to.  It doesn't mean that every single human being is basically mean or cruel, but rather that we are human and therefore not perfect.  Felicity is not perfect.  She gets upset and lashes out in fights just like the rest of us.  She lives an incredibly stressful life, which apparently does not include a great deal of sleep, and if she occasionally screws up, then I think we can cut her a little slack.  Plus, we all know that things she says don’t always come out the way she intends.

 

The fight about emotions in 3x02 and her comment about Oliver not having feelings was actually very on point.  He’d just broken up with her because he’d apparently decided to be the robot version of himself rather than the human version, so I got exactly what she was saying – and she elaborated more in the rest of that conversation about what she meant.  I saw nothing intentionally unkind about any of it.  She had a right to have a say, however obliquely, about how she viewed Oliver’s decision to not be with her and everything that that implied about his state of mind.

 

First, just to be clear, since my post was the one originally quoted: I never took the position that Felicity is a cruel person, or that anything she's done is out of the realm of normal human behavior. I agree that the few instances we saw of Felicity being mean were either knee-jerk reactions to stressful situations or, in the case of her relationship with Donna, shown to be the result of years of a challenging mother-daughter dynamic. And I agree that they make her more human, and a much kinder one than most, at that. I want the show to treat her as human, that was my whole point. 

 

I disagree that there was nothing intentionally unkind about her lashing out at Oliver in 302. He'd upset her by demanding her A-game, and she responded in hurt and anger. She said it because she was really struggling with the way he'd shut himself off with her and then further after Sara, yes, and if she weren't emotionally compromised, she probably wouldn't have said it. But there was an unkind thought behind her comment, and it was meant to sting. She regretted it immediately and apologized quickly. Good. But realizing it doesn't negate it.

 

And in 317, there is no call for those comments at all. It's just stress, and she's taking it out on Oliver. I wish she'd apologized to him by the end of the episode--I think I might have really appreciated that whole thing with just that simple change. It would have told me that this was intentional by the writers--that it was meant to show that Felicity's feelings for Oliver were still really screwing with her, and that she was projecting her own feelings about her relationship with Ray onto Oliver. But that's not what they were doing. In the end, the show believes that Oliver was somehow in the wrong, even though Felicity's the one who lied to him (no apology) and then wrongly accused him of unkindness (none there either). In fact, Oliver's the one who somehow has to make...something...up to her by taking the high road with Ray. Truly terrible storytelling and character work there.

 

My point is that anytime Oliver screws up with her (or with anyone, again back to my original point), he ultimately does have to apologize, or else he suffers further via a strain on their relationship until he makes things right. Oliver is the only character whose faults and mistakes are constantly under a microscope on the show, which is why I'm more comfortable with those flaws. I'm not comfortable with the way the show tends to gloss over the flaws of the supporting characters, because it leaves them muddled--is this an intentional character trait or just a fluke that I should ignore?--and it can create an imbalance in relationships. Bottom line: I love Felicity. I just hope the show cares enough about her to explore some of this stuff more.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[Ceylon5]

This show is like those pictures that used to be all the rage for a while, which looked like a messy mass of coloured dots, but when you really unfocussed your eyes, you could see a 3-D image pop out of the page.  If we think too hard about any aspect of this season or look too carefully at each scene or action, it becomes a horrible mess of disconnected dots.  We really have to disconnect our brains, not pay too much attention to anything that clearly makes no sense, and just hope for better things next year - or go mad in the attempt to make sense of things that just don't make sense.

 

The writing was all round bad this year.  The show most certainly did not do Felicity's story, such as it was, justice.  She got caught in the rip-tide of becoming Oliver's love interest and the whole way they went about that did neither character any favours.  So I totally agree - we really need better writing for all the characters next year.

[BkWurm1]

First, just to be clear, since my post was the one originally quoted: I never took the position that Felicity is a cruel person, or that anything she's done is out of the realm of normal human behavior.

 

That's what I figured.  I wanted it clarified because I suddenly envisioned someone taking it and misunderstanding and it popping up everywhere as fact.  That and my nephew is studying for a college entrance exam and somehow that has translated into me reviewing all my knowledge of grammar and the nuances of reading comprehension all on top of my normal obsessive word choice issuesl, lol.  I went on for 15 minutes to some poor glazed over soul about passive sentences and why it's ok to end sentences in a preposition.  I'll be better soon, I swear.   

[AyChihuahua]

"The apology to Oliver during Sara was fully warranted and he probably deserved one in 3.17 for that crack about being glad if Ray was dead but I don't think it means that she has a cruel streak."

 

I don't know WHAT you're talking about!  The only thing that happened in 3.17 was Lyla and Diggle's wedding!  Felicity went stag and danced with Digg.  Oliver went stag and danced with Baby Sara.  Lyla was a gorgeous bride and Digg a handsome groom.  NOTHING ELSE HAPPENED.

[Genki]

The writing was all round bad this year.  The show most certainly did not do Felicity's story, such as it was, justice.  She got caught in the rip-tide of becoming Oliver's love interest and the whole way they went about that did neither character any favours.  So I totally agree - we really need better writing for all the characters next year.

 

While I agree the writing was inconsistent and plot-focused rather than character focused, I will say that the attempt at getting an Atom spin-off did more harm to Felicity's story than being OQ love interest.

 

If we look at season 1 Laurel as the love interest got storylines sets and character interactions to build up her character and story, unfortunately it was all negated by the anti-chemistry.

 

Being the LI in season 3 got Felicity a set - her apartment, a back story - Cooper, her mother and they upped her career profile etc. All the things you do to build up a long-term love interest. Unfortunately the EPs decided to kill 2 birds with one Atom and instead of making Felicity's development about her, they made it about Ray. which is where I found the majority of the OOC, for me, in the Felicity related stuff.

 

Felicity apologising to Ray  and not calling him out on his hypocrisy in 3.17 after the crap he pulled, the awkwardness and the inconsistency (story-wise,time-wise, character moment-wise) of her last Flash cross-over, the isolation from Diggle and Team Arrow, all did Felicity no favours and were related to building Ray up as a character/spin-off lead and made Felicity's story take a step back in relation to Ray IMO.

 

I don't know WHAT you're talking about!  The only thing that happened in 3.17 was Lyla and Diggle's wedding!  Felicity went stag and danced with Digg.  Oliver went stag and danced with Baby Sara.  Lyla was a gorgeous bride and Digg a handsome groom.  NOTHING ELSE HAPPENED.

 

 

Head cannon set!

[wingster55]

She's actually in the place that Oliver was getting to in the finale by beginning to realize that the hero part of him and the Oliver part of him are all the same person.

 

To the Oliver thread!

[kismet]

Felicity apolgizing to Ray after that crap he pulled in 317 was probably the worst Felicity moment of the entire series for me. It was just not how I ever envisioned her character to apologize for doing really nothing. She never took Oliver's or anyone else's crap, so why should she take Ray's. This is the same person that stood up to MM & Ras and then they have her apologize to Ray?!?

I mean I understand wanting to make a relationship work, so I understand that they needed to have a conversation & HE needed to apologize to her. But the way that scene was set up just felt anti-strong female & anti-Felicity.

Edited June 18, 2015 by kismet

[tv echo]

This is a nice article on some of Felicity's most memorable lines (in animated gif form)...

 

11 Times Felicity Smoak's Wit Was The True Hero Of 'Arrow,' Because She Always Knows Exactly What To Say
CAITLYN CALLEGARI @___CAITLYNMARIE 1 DAY AGO
http://www.bustle.com/articles/91878-11-times-felicity-smoaks-wit-was-the-true-hero-of-arrow-because-she-always-knows-exactly

 

Edited June 23, 2015 by tv echo