Felicity Smoak: Bitch With Wifi

[statsgirl]

Felicity saw the good in Oliver, but not right away.  She helped him even though she was suspicious of his stories. She agreed to join his mission only as long as it took to find Walter, and then the very next episode she quit on him because she thought he was being too cruel.  It took 20 episodes, seven months, from the time she met Oliver to telling Quentin that wanting to help people makes him kind of a hero. 

 

Ray Palmer got her hero speech within five weeks, based on what?  Telling her he wants to help Star City, talking about giving back free energy and re-naming Queen Consolidated.  Hopefully the dress didn't factor into it.

 

I think it's clear now that Ray Palmer isn't a stalker, if he were,  he would have made his move by now.  But it's not a given that he's not a sociopath; they're charming, give you stuff to get you to do what they want, and it can take years, even decades, before people see them for who they really are.  She's not a teenager any more, she's not in a relationship with Ray, and to wholeheartedly be Ray's cheerleader this soon makes her seem , okay, I'll say it, stupid. Because if he were a sociopath, the first two things he would do is something that looks good for the city (e.g. giving energy back) and re-name the company with his own name.

 

 

I can't say I found Felicity naïve about Moira and I certainly don't think she EVER trusted her.  The whole reason she was investigating her past Walter telling her he would handle it was because she didn't trust Moira.  She went to Moira because she thought it was the right thing to do, not because she thought it would be an easy or simple conversation.

She didn't trust Moira from the beginning because the first thing she learned about Moira was that she was not to be trusted.  That's different than distrusting someone from the first time you meet them without knowing anything about them.

 

When Moira refused to do anything about Thea's paternity secret, Felicity didn't know what to do.  Her plan hadn't gone beyond going to Moira and telling her the secret was out.  Even after everything she knew Moira had done and how untrustworthy she was, Felicity still thought that Moira would do the right thing and tell her children.

 

That he changed over those five years apart from her isn't any reason for Felicity not to ever trust anyone again.

 

He didn't change though, he just became more of what he was when we saw him at MIT with Felicity.  He got her defenses down by telling her he valued her (compare to the VP position and designer dress from Ray), he thought he was right and justified in doing anything he wanted to get his way, and he refused to listen to Felicity when she said what he was doing was wrong and he was going to get caught. Later he took credit for her program, which she interpreted as protecting her but was really taking her glory for his own.  Felicity should have learned a hard lesson that what a person appears to be is not necessarily who he really is.

 

And yet two weeks later, she's giving that speech about Ray Palmer when she's only known him for a very short time.

 

My father was a psychotherapist and he had an expression "If you tell me something, I believe you.  If I find you you've lied, I'm not surprised."  The older I get, the more I realize how true that is.

 

Felicity doesn't have to give up trusting people and believing in them, but as she matures, she needs to realize that people are not always what they seem on the surface, and that they can turn out to be someone completely different.  Giving that speech for Ray is either OOC or they are writing her stupid for the plot.

Edited November 30, 2014 by statsgirl

[BkWurm1]

I think it's clear now that Ray Palmer isn't a stalker, if he were,  he would have made his move by now.  But it's not a given that he's not a sociopath; they're charming, give you stuff to get you to do what they want, and it can take years, even decades, before people see them for who they really are

 

.  It's not really practical to assume everyone might be a sociopath.  That kind of think sort of sucks up your day.  ;)

 

She's not a teenager any more, she's not in a relationship with Ray, and to wholeheartedly be Ray's cheerleader this soon makes her seem , okay, I'll say it, stupid. Because if he were a sociopath, the first two things he would do is something that looks good for the city (e.g. giving energy back) and re-name the company with his own name.

 

So we both agree that it can take decades for the bad stuff about a person to come out.  But does that mean all the obvious and overt stuff like donating his salary, creating and starting to implement a plan to revitalize the city, being generous in his personal and professional life, being appreciative about her abilities and supportive of her emotionally should be something she automatically overlooks because twenty years from now he might turn out to be a mad man? 

 

Palmer got a supportive, 'I believe in the good things he is going to do' speech faster than Oliver did but the distance between pushy recruiter and genuine (to quote Laurel) good doer isn't as far as Oliver had to go with the whole killing thing to the hero of the people.   Throw in the intensely emotional time she had been going through and I think it isn't unreasonable for her to seem more emotional about other stuff. 

 

I also think its important to remember that while Felicity trusts the business man and to some degree is friendly with Ray, he hasn't earned friendship level trust.  She's not at a place where she's going to put her life on the line for him.  She trusts him on a business level to be genuine and real but she's not in love with him, she doesn't confide in him or even seek his company out.    I just don't think Felicity has lost her perspective or is acting that dumb in feeling Palmer is trustworthy.

 

Felicity doesn't have to give up trusting people and believing in them, but as she matures, she needs to realize that people are not always what they seem on the surface, and that they can turn out to be someone completely different.

 

I think at this point in her life it is impossible for her not to already know this but that's why I think it takes more strength to take a chance on believing in people than just assuming they too are going to horrendously disappoint or turn out capable of claim to have loved you but then faking their death and then trying to kill you and your mother.  Not giving in to the very rational urge to shut everybody out would be very hard. 

    

When Moira refused to do anything about Thea's paternity secret, Felicity didn't know what to do.  Her plan hadn't gone beyond going to Moira and telling her the secret was out.  Even after everything she knew Moira had done and how untrustworthy she was, Felicity still thought that Moira would do the right thing and tell her children.

 

Was it stupid to hope and believe Moira would do the right thing?  I can't use that word.  Instead I'd say it was brave of her or hopeful, or at worst overly optimistic because she knew the odds against her, she had to.   As for Felicity not knowing what to do when Moira didn't live up to Felicity's hopes, that isn't really true.  She said she hadn't planned past telling Moira but she told Moira she was giving her the chance to tell Oliver herself, that automatically means if Moira didn't, that Felicity would.  She knew she had to tell Oliver but yes, she was afraid of how that was going to go but she was still going to do it because it was the right thing to do.  Other people might have looked at the situation and called her stupid and foolish for getting involved or putting herself in the middle (and in fact many did say that) but I don't think Felicity is built to ignore something that damaging to one of the most important people in her life.

 

I also think while Felicity is not built to assume the worst of people, she's not foolish.  We don't see her be taken in by criminal sob stories, we don't see her be taken in by anything except the betrayal of an ex from college that she hadn't been in contact with for five years.  That said, Felicity hasn't let anyone but Team Arrow people actually get close to her since the college ex.  (aka the non existent love life she was sure her mother disapproved of combined with the fact we've never met a single friend of hers)   I guess that's why I'm willing to trust that if Felicity gives Palmer an I believe in you, he has done something worthy of her believing in him EVEN though we the viewers didn't get to see it happening. 

Edited December 1, 2014 by BkWurm1

[Genki]

I also think while Felicity is not built to assume the worst of people, she's not foolish.  We don't see her be taken in by criminal sob stories, we don't see her be taken in by anything except the betrayal of an ex from college that she hadn't been in contact with for five years.  That said, Felicity hasn't let anyone but Team Arrow people actually get close to her since the college ex.  (aka the non existent love life she was sure her mother disapproved of combined with the fact we've never met a single friend of hers)   I guess that's why I'm willing to trust that if Felicity gives Palmer an I believe in you, he has done something worthy of her believing in him EVEN though we the viewers didn't get to see it happening. 

 

But for me that is part of the disconnect. Since Felicity was guarded for so long, Felicity suddenly giving Ray more props than I feel he has earn't on screen seems either forced for plot reasons, or slightly OCC. We're not seeing inside Felicity's head enough and it is frustrating.

 

It's not unreasonable that she has a suspicion of Ray since she and Team Arrow have encountered many others, like Blood was presented in a similar manner, good-doer, helping city turned out to be bad. The speech at dinner for Ray was (for me) OTT. I think (hope) she was projecting and realised something, like maybe that she wants to be helping Oliver instead of at dinner, since next thing you know she is back in the lair, but I can't say for sure what was the real motivation/intention of the scene. 

 

It sometimes feels like the EPs are banking on Comic name recognition and Felicity's likability to prop up Ray, which leads to some resistance for me as a viewer.

 

As much as Oliver is a martyr, Felicity is also running and hiding from Oliver. (The speech to Carrie may have resonated with her, but she couldn't automatically assume it was a truth directed at her) It's not wrong and it is understandable, she sees him every night  and she needs to balance her dreams with the reality of Oliver's decision. But I think she could have fought Oliver more on the decision, but I also think it is in character for her to not too, abandonment issues and all. I see both Oliver and Felicity's side and I can tell the current situation is hurting them both. I hurt for them both.

 

I'm looking forward to the x-over because I like the friendship Felicity is building with Starlabs and desperately I want to see Felicity interact with (non Team Arrow) friends, Lyla or Thea (God can we please have a scene with these 2!) or Lance seem like good option for Arrow. Having said that, I'm not opposed to Team Arrow hangout scenes, I advocate for it. There is so much I want to see in relation to Felicity, that I'm disappointed that Ray's plot is sucking up other potential interactions.

 

I think I would have preferred if Ray was not introduced as LI (or Oliver SWM) and was just an easter egg, that maybe became reoccurring.  I would like a friendship-work aspect of Felicity/Ray explored more than anything to do with Ray's origin story.  

[statsgirl]

I think I would have preferred if Ray was not introduced as LI (or Oliver SWM) and was just an easter egg, that maybe became reoccurring.  I would like a friendship-work aspect of Felicity/Ray explored more than anything to do with Ray's origin story.  

 

I think that would have been a much better idea.  They could have bantered the same, just about work instead, and if the EPs wanted to have a real alternative love interest for Felicity, they completely blew this one because she seemed to go from 0 to -20 to 120 in just a few episodes.  I've spent more time trying to fanwank Felicity's mindset in the past 4 episodes than I did in the first two seasons.   She's being written to advance the plot rather than give us insight into  her character.

 

I also think its important to remember that while Felicity trusts the business man and to some degree is friendly with Ray, he hasn't earned friendship level trust.  She's not at a place where she's going to put her life on the line for him.  

I agree. But that speech at dinner just seemed to over the top because she doesn't know him well enough to know that everything he does is altruistic.  Did he inherit money or make it, because the kind of money he has, you don't get by being altruistic unless your name is Bill Gates and even he didn't at first.

 

She hasn't been asked to put her life on the line for Ray but I wouldn't be surprised if she would now after the Draw Back Your Bow episode.  The dinner speech wasn't just a "he's a good businessman and won't cheat you" speech, it was "he's such a great guy, whatever he wants to do with your land you can believe that it's for the best for the world at large.'  Even if she has worked closely with him for the past four weeks, even if he did give her lots of time off when she asked, it's impossible that she could believe in him to that extent right now.  She's known the guy for less than two months and worked for him just over five weeks.

 

Keith Dutton, a psychologist at Oxford, has rated the jobs psychopaths are most likely to have.  #1.... CEO.  I want Felicity to be more skeptical about a man she's only know for a few weeks, and one who crosses boundaries whenever he gets an impulse.  I understand why she went to the dinner, I understand why she supported her boss but that speech made her seem impossibly naive.

 

I want my old Felicity back.

Edited December 1, 2014 by statsgirl

[apinknightmare]

I guess I'll just be one of the few over here in the corner who doesn't think Felicity's acting wildly out of character at all.

 

I'll preface this by writing that I think the writers have made some huge missteps with regards to Ray's introduction, and I wish it had played out differently. I don't really like him that much, but I can see why Felicity would, and upon rewatch I didn't really find her speech about him to be all that impassioned or out of character. Every single thing she said about him was something that we have been shown to be true, at least from Felicity's point of view. She's vice president of whatever for the company, I'm sure she's gotten a good look at all of his plans. He's done nothing but talk about how he wants to make Starling a better place, and that talk has been backed up by actions that we have seen on screen. Why would she have reason to doubt his sincerity about it? Why would she still be suspicious of him at this point in time?

 

Yes, she and Ray got off to a rough start and I would've preferred the "stalking" element (joke or not) to not have been a part of it, but why is she naive for believing in him when he is continuously doing what he said he was going to (and bringing Felicity in to help him do good things), while no one was calling her naive for signing on to Oliver's crusade when he was still out killing people? Yeah, she believed he could be more than that, but all she had was a gut feeling to go on at that point in time and she just happened to be right about it. At that point she had spent a lot less time with Oliver than she had with Ray, and she knew he had been lying to her face. She was the one trying to convince Oliver that he could do some real good in the city. Ray's already doing it! 

 

Felicity's obviously someone who trusts her instincts and goes with her gut. Her gut told her to trust and help Oliver, and her gut's telling her to trust and help Ray. Maybe she's wrong about this one, but maybe she's not. Truth is, I'm feeling oddly protective of Felicity right now, because it seems to me like her character is being called into question because she happens to like and admire a guy that the audience doesn't. 

[MsSchadenfreude]

 

Truth is, I'm feeling oddly protective of Felicity right now, because it seems to me like her character is being called into question because she happens to like and admire a guy that the audience doesn't.

 

THIS!!!   I get why people don't like Ray, I'm pretty indifferent to him myself, but that doesn't mean he is a psychopath or a sociopath, nor that Felicity is being an idiot for trusting him.  I don't think any of characters on this show could withstand any type of in depth psychoanalysis.  Oliver is a former killer who shoots people with arrows, Sara was an assassin, Laurel beats people up in hospital, Thea plays with swords and has daddy issues and even Felicity isn't above breaking multiple laws because she has decided the ends justify the means. None of their behavior screams well-adjusted by real world standards, so singling Ray's out seems unfair to me.  He's no worse than any one else given the information we and Felicity currently have.

Edited December 1, 2014 by MsSchadenfreude

[olicityfan25]

Yeah from what we've seen of him, he's the most normal. I wonder why nobody brings this up. Until he turns into the Atom lol

[Password]

I think for me, the reason I'm calling shenanigans on these things is because I really thought Ray would be someone I would find a very good alternative for Felicity. And because I find him so very off putting, I question Felicity's lack of questioning HIM. I have no problem believing Felicity could believe in Ray passionately, I think based on what we as an audience know it would be very likely. She believed Oliver was a hero when he was a murderer. Ray, it wouldn't be that difficult to see her believing in him because of reasons others have mentioned.

My problem comes in because I feel there were scenes missing that would help me see her reach that belief described in that impassioned speech. And it was impassioned, she had tears in her eyes almost. I want to take Ray seriously but to me the show is blowing it, and it reflects badly on Felicity because now she's his biggest cheerleader. I don't want to fanwank things, because Ray has been described as a game changer. I had to fanwank with Laurel and Oliver and that took me nowhere fast.

To me if you take ep 7 at face value, without prior knowledge of Ray and Felicity's interaction, it makes a lot of sense. They're comfortable with one another, he appreciates her, she believes in him. All wonderful things. But there is at LEAST an episode or two before that comfort for me to believe it.

Hehe that is all.

[Genki]

Felicity's obviously someone who trusts her instincts and goes with her gut. Her gut told her to trust and help Oliver, and her gut's telling her to trust and help Ray. Maybe she's wrong about this one, but maybe she's not. Truth is, I'm feeling oddly protective of Felicity right now, because it seems to me like her character is being called into question because she happens to like and admire a guy that the audience doesn't. 

 

I'm sure it is happening around the internet, but for me rather than calling to questions Felicity's character, I'm calling into questions the writing for her character. For me, is slightly OOC and OTT in 1 episode. 

 

Regarding Felicity trusting Oliver, he was honest in his dishonesty, with Felicity and she took a leap and it paid off, and well dimples...who can resist Oliver's dimples.

 

I think it will be a MMV situation and it hinge on perception of Ray, but ultimately, I'm sure we will all enjoy Felicity in this weeks episodes.

[Ceylon5]

Did people get this annoyed when Felicity trusted Barry (after knowing him only a day or two, I might add)?  Or didn't people mind in that instance, because they liked Barry themselves?  I think this shows the type of character that Felicity is.  Some characters can do pretty much anything and the audience will go along with it, because the character is enjoyed for being whacky or far out or whatever.  Other characters, like Felicity, are more of an audience surrogate - people identify with her and project themselves onto her to a degree.  That means that she's called in character/praised/liked when she mirrors the audience's feelings, and out of character/criticized/disliked when she does something that doesn't necessarily match with how all the viewers feel, even if she's very clearly acting completely consistently in both cases.

 

I do think that part of the reason Felicity made the speech was because she was feeling a little guilty that she'd ducked out to answer Diggle's call and she felt she needed to try to make up for her absence by making a pitch on Ray's behalf (especially since she was planning on bailing shortly afterwards to go to the lair).  And while I doubt she said anything that she didn't believe to be true, the purpose in saying it was purely to help Ray make his deal, which is why she said it with such conviction - in common parlance, it was a sales pitch.  It was a business dinner and she did what a business partner does - tried to put Ray and his deal in the best possible light.  That's what grown-ups do.  Felicity was just being a normal person here, but trying to cram it in between being a vigilante's partner, which meant she really had to pack a punch as fast as she could, so she could leave and go and help Oliver.  Not only is Felicity's story rushed - her life is rushed too.  I'm still confused as to when she ever sleeps?

[apinknightmare]

My problem comes in because I feel there were scenes missing that would help me see her reach that belief described in that impassioned speech. And it was impassioned, she had tears in her eyes almost. I want to take Ray seriously but to me the show is blowing it, and it reflects badly on Felicity because now she's his biggest cheerleader. I don't want to fanwank things, because Ray has been described as a game changer. I had to fanwank with Laurel and Oliver and that took me nowhere fast.

 

I guess I just don't see the tears - I think her eyes maybe look watery because of the lighting, but...yeah, I just don't see it.

 

And obviously YMMV, but everything Felicity mentioned in that speech I don't even have to make a leap to know that she meant it or why. We've seen him demonstrate the characteristics that she was describing several times throughout the show. He doesn't act like your typical business man. He doesn't seem to be interested in making money. He does seem to be out to make the world a better place. If she believes all those things about him (and I don't see why she wouldn't - it's what we've been shown about him from Felicity's POV), then it's not much of a leap to come to the conclusion that if she thinks he's out to do good and he has been doing good that he will want to do good with those mines. 

 

The show has some work to do if I'm expected to believe that these two are ready to jump into a relationship (and honestly I don't have much faith in them doing that, regardless), but what's been shown on screen for me so far is enough for me to buy that they have a good enough working relationship for Felicity to be able to make a pitch like she did and that Palmer has her doing the kind of work so far that has allowed her to believe in his vision and that she wants to help him achieve it. 

[BkWurm1]

My problem comes in because I feel there were scenes missing that would help me see her reach that belief described in that impassioned speech.

 

This is IMO absolutely true.  The show took a short cut and it hurt the message they were trying to send but Felicity has earned my good graces so even though I think the show should have given us at least one scene of Felicity coming to admire what Palmer is doing (rather than just hearing it or crunching some related numbers) I still have enough faith in her character to trust her opinion without calling her actions out of character or foolish. 

 

And it was impassioned, she had tears in her eyes almost. I want to take Ray seriously but to me the show is blowing it, and it reflects badly on Felicity because now she's his biggest cheerleader. I don't want to fanwank things, because Ray has been described as a game changer. I had to fanwank with Laurel and Oliver and that took me nowhere fast.

 

I guess for me I've only had to fanwank the one scene that would have had Felicity privately looking impressed with Ray.  When the speech came, my reaction was "When did she decide that" not "Why would she think that?"  I feel like all the other pieces were there waiting to be put together which IMO wasn't the case with Laurel and Oliver.    

 

Truth is, I'm feeling oddly protective of Felicity right now, because it seems to me like her character is being called into question because she happens to like and admire a guy that the audience doesn't.

 

I suspect this kind of where my head is at as well.  I would love more in show proof of Palmer being Mr. Great Guy, but I don't feel like Felicity would need more proof. 

 

It's like the five months stolen from us where we would have gotten to see Oliver and Felicity bat their eyes and talk about beds and be all flirty, flirty.  I really want it but even without getting to see it, I still believe that Felicity was ready to date Oliver when he asked her to dinner even if the moment he asked she wasn't even sure he could mean a date, date. 

[quarks]

Did people get this annoyed when Felicity trusted Barry (after knowing him only a day or two, I might add)?  Or didn't people mind in that instance, because they liked Barry themselves?

 

 

 

Well, Oliver did.  Arguably more annoyed. On the other hand that led to the glorious moment of Barry calling Oliver a jerk, so I at least was all good with this.  

 

The difference in that case, though, was, I think: one, apart from slightly lying about his identity, he wasn't really lying that much about his purpose - he was there to help solve the Mirakuru crime, and two, that "mystery" such as it wasn't was brought up and solved in about fifteen minutes on screen, complete with a touching Sob Story with Sad Music. Not a lot of mystery there even for those who never read the comics and had no idea what was going on. In this case, we've gone through seven episodes, and Ray's intentions are not all that clear.  And that's even apart from Felicity: we don't know what he's doing with Applied Sciences and that costume. Two, that lie was Barry's only questionable act towards Felicity/Team Arrow - Barry didn't even take the open opportunity to kiss Felicity when he was about to try to leave Starling City the first time. Otherwise, we saw Barry helping team Arrow, and Felicity, Diggle and Oliver all accepting and trusting Barry within two episodes.

 

We haven't seen Ray help Team Arrow. We have seen him help Felicity, but Ray has made it clear in return that he needs her to help him with various things - get info from Applied Sciences, help make business deals, and so on.  Barry gave Oliver that mask as a helpful gift, without strings. We also haven't seen the rest of Team Arrow trust Ray. Oliver has said that QC is probably better off in Ray's hands, which after last season I think almost everyone would agree with even if Ray is actually Lex Luthor in disguise, and Diggle has said that the idea of Felicity and Ray dating is bothering Oliver.  We don't see either one of them just accepting Ray, which means that the burden of getting the audience to accept/trust Ray (assuming that's what the show wants the audience to do, which I'm not certain of) is almost entirely on Felicity.  

 

And as the mixed reactions show, this is creating, well, mixed reactions.

[Danny Franks]

Did people get this annoyed when Felicity trusted Barry (after knowing him only a day or two, I might add)?  Or didn't people mind in that instance, because they liked Barry themselves?

 

I got annoyed with her. She had no reason to believe in him as surely as she did, other than the fact she fancied him. His story was sketchy, he was vague about details, he knew more than he should about stuff no one should know about. Yet Oliver was painted as a jerk for not buying into him. Honestly, I feel like the amount of championing and pedestal-installing people are doing for Felicity could almost make me not like her. She's not perfect, she shouldn't be perfect. If she's perfect, she's fucking boring, and if she's occasionally blinded by the fact she's got the hots for someone, it should be acknowledged.

 

But as I say, I thought Oliver was completely right not to trust Barry, based on how he presented himself, and right to call him out for lying to them. What happened? Barry had a sob story and Oliver got shouted at for doubting the precious little chap.

 

And I didn't like Barry. Still don't. He's a drip and one of the least interesting things about his own show. And he's not even the best Flash that DC have had in their books.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Danny Franks

[Ceylon5]

Yes, she should definitely have let Oliver die rather.  It would have saved us all a lot of grief.  Silly Felicity!

[Betweenthisandthat]

Honestly, I feel like the amount of championing and pedestal-installing people are doing for Felicity could almost make me not like her. She's not perfect, she shouldn't be perfect. If she's perfect, she's fucking boring, and if she's occasionally blinded by the fact she's got the hots for someone, it should be acknowledged.

 

I like Felicity but this is partially where I am too.  When I watched the show on my own, I enjoyed most of the characters equally, but the uplifting of some and the tearing down of others has been a massive turn off when I go online.  Unfortunately that's what Felicity is suffering from.  For whatever reason, she's been elevated to such heights over other characters and that hasn't helped her when the writing for her is controversial.  

Other characters, like Felicity, are more of an audience surrogate - people identify with her and project themselves onto her to a degree.  That means that she's called in character/praised/liked when she mirrors the audience's feelings, and out of character/criticized/disliked when she does something that doesn't necessarily match with how all the viewers feel, even if she's very clearly acting completely consistently in both cases.

 

I've seen Felicity touted as the show's "star" and everyone's favorite, but it's hard to be audience surrogate/favorite and do things that the audience begins to disagree with.  I'm not sure Felicity has done that before.  The problem for the audience is that she isn't wrong about Ray is she?  He'll be a hero. He's not a bad guy.  He's not Lex Luthor.  She was right about Oliver and Barry too.  She trusted all of these guys, but it could be argued that she initially trusted them because she had the hots for them.  That's an oversimplification, but the more they have her do this, the weaker the storytelling gets.  It makes sense for her to trust Oliver because he's the center of the show and ideally we know his motivations.  I liked Barry, perhaps better than Oliver, if I were Felicity but even I believe it was risk for her to trust him so quickly.  At least he began to work with the team and gain their trust.  Now she's doing the same thing with Ray, but he's doesn't seem to have truly earned her trust, nor has he yet gained the the team's trust, and maybe even the audience's trust.  

 

No doubt Felicity will be right about Ray as she has been about everyone else.  If Ray doesn't get to work well with Oliver or the team, if his relationship to Felicity or anyone else feels unearned, then it reflects on Felicity and there might be a disconnect between her and the audience that has elevated her so much.  That's the fault of the writers.  I still like Felicity and root for her to pursue her own happiness, but at some time they need to have her or the show needs to acknowledge her flaws.  She has them, and I would want them to be acknowledged in a real way.  I don't expect Ray to be bad or for her to be punished for being attracted to him, but I'd like a storyline where she really screws up and has to work to clean up her own mess.  I honestly don't think that has happened yet, but it would be a good way to move her from being audience surrogate.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Betweenthisandthat

[Danny Franks]

No doubt Felicity will be right about Ray as she has been about everyone else.  If Ray doesn't get to work well with Oliver or the team, if his relationship to Felicity or anyone else feels unearned, then it reflects on Felicity and there might be a disconnect between her and the audience that has elevated her so much.  That's the fault of the writers.  I still like Felicity and root for her to pursue her own happiness, but at some time they need to have her or the show needs to acknowledge her flaws.  She has them, and I would want them to be acknowledged in a real way.  I don't expect Ray to be bad or for her to be punished for being attracted to him, but I'd like a storyline where she really screws up and has to work to clean up her own mess.  I honestly don't think that has happened yet, but it would be a good way to move her from being audience surrogate.

 

That's something of a problem in itself, as well. Because if she's always right, regardless of the reasons, then she becomes too much of a mouthpiece for the writing, and too accurate a barometer for whether someone should be trusted or not. She has to be wrong about more than just some minor, techy thing, or she stops feeling real. I agree that she needs to have a big screw up, which she has to fix, just to ground her as a real person. Everyone else on the show has had big moments where they've made mistakes and had to live with the consequences. The longer Felicity goes without that, and the more the audience builds her up as a paragon of perfection, the closer she comes to being that dreaded thing, a Mary Sue.

 

Felicity can't just be used as a quick fix to get characters accepted, but that's how they've been using her.

 

I didn't even think to lump Oliver in there with Barry and Ray as people she trusted while being attracted to them. It definitely fits, and if this was a deliberate choice by the writers to install some blind spots in the character, and give her a realistic weakness, then I'd say well done. As it is, I doubt they've ever even consciously considered it.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Danny Franks

[apinknightmare]

At least he began to work with the team and gain their trust.  Now she's doing the same thing with Ray, but he's doesn't seem to have truly earned her trust, nor has he yet gained the the team's trust, and maybe even the audience's trust.  

 

Why would he have gained the team's trust? Felicity's trust in Ray is as her employer, not as a vigilante or someone in the know. As far as we know, Oliver's only spoken directly to the guy once - and Felicity isn't asking Oliver or Diggle or Roy to trust him. She trusts him in her work environment, and all the signs that point to why have been part of the show. I just find it odd that for the most part she was not judged for trusting Oliver and Barry when those were definitely gut feeling/judgment call type things, but she is being judged for trusting Ray when everything that we've been shown indicates that there's no reason why she shouldn't. She actually has more basis to trust Ray than any other person we've seen her trusting on the show. 

 

As for her making a big mess and having to get herself out of it, didn't she just do that, like...two episodes ago? Not saying this is the perfect example or that she shouldn't have to deal with long-lasting consequences of her actions, but it's not like it hasn't happened.

Edited December 1, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Carrie Ann]

Felicity has my sympathy and love, and I'm still 90% on her side when it comes to how her non-relationship with Oliver is unfolding. But I think the writers are being way too loose with characterization this season in general, and while Felicity has enjoyed a greater focus, she has suffered for it too.

I felt she was mostly in character in Eps 1-5, including her harsh remark to Oliver that he has no feelings, and her strained relationship with her mother. That showed me the writers WERE willing to show her flaws, her insecurities, her mistakes. And I mean, this is a character that we are still getting to know, so there is definitely room for things that surprise us or seem off. Those things can reveal parts of Felicity we didn't know or understand before.

But not when they either go against what we already know about her (Ep 6), or when the viewer has to make leaps (however small) in order to make sense of what is onscreen. This season has repeatedly put it on the viewer to supply the relationship and character development that the writers can't be bothered to spend time on.

Those who see her actions in Ep 7 as in character have made persuasive arguments as to why. But I DO think it requires a bit of fanwanking and filling in the blanks, and that's not good storytelling. We have to choose how to fill them. We could think: well, she's been working with him for two months, presumably she's privy to some of his plans and is excited; she's looked at him every day for eight weeks and realized he's hot, and she finds him funny and trustworthy. Done.

Or you could think: well, she barely goes to work and we've never seen her show any sort of romantic interest in him--we've only seen irritation, bafflement, and at best, a professional cordiality--so why assume things changed that dramatically off-screen? Apparently Felicity is shallow and gullible.

Or you could fill in the blanks with something in between. And the problem is that you have an immediate reaction to something, and then you're required to backfill to either FIX the way you feel about something or to make that feeling make sense. It's making headcanon into canon, basically. I don't need to be spoon-fed by the writers; in fact sometimes I like that we skip time and you can imagine what might have happened. Like, it was not hard for me to see how Oliver and Felicity progressed from the beach in 2x23 to flirting over a fern in 3x01. I'm sad we didn't see it, but I get it.

It's when I don't get it--when I see something I don't like, and my immediate reaction is "No, that's not right," that the skipping over character/relationship development becomes a problem. Because then I'm stuck wondering whether the writers agree that this is problematic, or an indication of a character flaw, or whether they think it's all wonderful and charming and great.

And yeah, I do think the fact that many viewers aren't charmed by Ray makes a difference. We didn't see the moment Felicity BECAME charmed by him, you know? If I had just seen that, even if I didn't feel the same, at least I could understand. We needed ONE good scene in a previous episode wherein Ray simultaneously showed how amazingly benevolent he is AND Felicity appeared attracted to him and excited about the future of Palmer Tech. That's what it would have taken for me to feel like her scenes in DBYB were the natural next step in the story. And I think about these damn characters A LOT, which tells me that the casual viewer was probably left scratching their head or feeling annoyed.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Carrie Ann

[apinknightmare]

And yeah, I do think the fact that many viewers aren't charmed by Ray makes a difference. We didn't see the moment Felicity BECAME charmed by him, you know? If I had just seen that, even if I didn't feel the same, at least I could understand. We needed ONE good scene in a previous episode wherein Ray simultaneously showed how amazingly benevolent he is AND Felicity appeared attracted to him and excited about the future of Palmer Tech. That's what it would have taken for me to feel like her scenes in DBYB were the natural next step in the story. And I think about these damn characters A LOT, which tells me that the casual viewer was probably left scratching their head or feeling annoyed.

 

 

I actually don't think casual viewers care enough to be left feeling annoyed. Since they don't think about the characters like we do, they take most things at face value. A dress is a dress is a necklace is a necklace is an employee believing in her boss's mission. If they're entertained, I don't think it much matters. At least, that's how my friends who are casual viewers react to the show.

 

I guess I'm just not that put out with having to fill in backstory or determine motivations, because this show moves at such a breakneck pace that I have to do that for 90% of it anyway - it's not something that's specific to Felicity's storyline. It is absolutely a writing failure, but it's not enough of one to keep me from watching. Personally, I understand enough about Felicity at this point to get why she believes in Ray and his mission without having to see it actually happening onscreen. The things Ray is doing have the standard markings of what floats her boat. And I just didn't get that she realized she was even attracted to him until 3x07 or that she was charmed by him or considered anything romantic between them until he kissed her, which seemed to surprise both of them. That might be why I don't feel blindsided by it or need explanation for it, I don't know.

[Ceylon5]

I don't think Felicity is presented as perfect, nor do I think that most of the people watching the show (or in the show) think that she's perfect.  Partly because there's no such thing (what does that even mean, anyway? - one's person's idea of perfect is another person's worst nightmare) and partly because that's not how people think.  Certain people just appeal to us.  And we defend those we like, not because we believe they're perfect, but because we see the best in them and want them to get a fair shake when we think they're being unfairly criticized.

 

I do think the writers are in a bit of a tough spot, though.  They need to let Felicity spread her wings a bit, because she's getting stifled in the cave with Oliver all the time and people want to see more of her than just as an extension of Oliver.  But when they write her as liking or trusting people other than Oliver, she takes a lot of flak (see the many preceding comments regarding Barry and Ray).  When she takes a job without putting Oliver's feelings on the matter ahead of her own (?!?!), she's criticized.  When she has trouble balancing her work and the rest of her life, people say she's a bad employee, and when she mixes work and romance, people aren't too happy about that either.  And when she screws up, shows insecurities, does foolish things or jumps to conclusions she gets called OOC or a pod person.  So it sort of feels to me like the audience has a very specific and limited view of what it will accept for/from Felicity (and those things all seem to revolve around Oliver, when you get right down to it and analyse the reactions) and every time the writers dare to step out of line, people get pretty upset and say Felicity is being ruined.

 

I just like Felicity.  She's enjoyable to watch.  I liked the much maligned Time of Death just fine.  I found 3x07 fun.  And even though it bugs me no end that she let Oliver rail-road her into being his EA, I found the scene in 2x02 where she yells at him about it very, very funny.  I'm pretty easy to please.  I'm not too fussy as to what they do with Felicity, so long as she's not completely side-lined.  At the end of the day, this show is not anything special, and I don't expect it to be.  It's not clever or thought-provoking or carefully crafted.  It doesn't suck you into the mystery like an Agatha Christie or wow you with its complex characters.  It's not carefully plotted nor is it often surprising or funny.  But Felicity makes me smile and she makes me laugh.  She's quirky and interesting and has heart.  For her, I'm willing to let the rest of the nonsense wash over me.  I care about what happens to her.  I want her to be happy.  So I'm along for the ride.  It's a bit bumpy, but it's just TV, and not very good TV at that.  It's quite fun to snark about it, but only with a light touch, I think.  There was a really memorable line on JAG, where Mac says to Harm, "I'm tired of dissecting relationships.  The minute you start dissecting something, the damn thing is dead."  I fear that too much analysis of a TV show does the same thing.  You dissect shows you enjoy, and end up killing what you loved about them in the process.  I don't want to do that with Felicity.  I'd prefer to just continue to enjoy her charming self at face value, and not expect more than the show can possibly hope to deliver.  Over and out...

Edited December 2, 2014 by Ceylon5

[Carrie Ann]

I actually don't think casual viewers care enough to be left feeling annoyed. Since they don't think about the characters like we do, they take most things at face value. A dress is a dress is a necklace is a necklace is an employee believing in her boss's mission. If they're entertained, I don't think it much matters. At least, that's how my friends who are casual viewers react to the show.

Oh yeah, I definitely think that's true of a lot of casual viewers, but that's kind of my point. I think they draw conclusions or have reactions about characters based on what's onscreen. So if my reaction isn't "Hey, this doesn't make sense to me based on what I know about Felicity," but instead "Hey, Felicity's kind of easily impressed and shallow" then that's probably not what the writers intend. And I should have said in my previous post, I'm sure some or even most casual viewers DID react the way they intended--that the dress, necklace, date, and kiss were all cute and dreamy. And regardless, I'm sure that one episode wouldn't be enough for casual viewers to be totally turned off or anything. But I still think it's a risk to leave it up to your audience to play Madlibs with your plotlines.

As for your second paragraph--like I said, I can totally understand why this stuff didn't feel weird to some of you. My immediate reaction was and is that it feels weird for me. So I think it really was just a MMV situation, and I appreciate the way you all laid out why it makes sense, because I can accept your reasoning. Going forward, I can accept that she is attracted to Ray ("I have a type" does make it seem that she was attracted to him before the kiss), that she sees him as a great man who wants to do great things, and that she is proud of Palmer Technologies and the work they do.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Ceylon5 and pinknightmare, you said it well. I think sometimes there's a tendency to overanalyze everything about the show, the characters, the motivations, etc., and we end up losing our enjoyment of it. I find myself taking a break from this board time and again because it does get overly negative at times. I love Felicity. She's my anchor on Arrow. I trust the character I've known for 2 seasons. Except for minor scenes here and there, I've found her reactions to the events this season believable and realistic. I love that she loves herself enough to step away from the man she loves when he's being wishy-washy. And I love that she's standing her ground. I love that she's now getting to do things at work that uses her considerable abilities (although I wish to see more of that and more of her enjoying it on-screen). I would love to get a better idea of a "destiny" for her, but that may be tied to what they want to do with her father so probably not getting that anytime soon. It also helps, I think, that I don't have a set idea of what Felicity should or should not do.

 

Pinknightmare, you mentioned casual viewers. I was talking to my mom and a couple of friends during the weekend. I'm always fascinated to hear from people who are not online and who are not steeped in every spoiler, speculation, behind-the-scenes stuff. They see episodes so differently. They don't see Ray as creepy or stalkerish at all and so have no problem with him and Felicity, although they are rooting for Oliver to get his act together. I asked them specifically about the dress and necklace and while they thought it over the top they didn't see Felicity's acceptance as a blemish on her character. I asked if they bought the Ray-is-a-good-guy speech and they said yeah. Why? Because for them the show had set it up enough, especially with the cogeneration thing that he wants to give away. That was enough for them to buy Felicity believing in Ray. I've heard this from other friends as well who are casual viewers. They roll their eyes when Felicity does something a bit off for them (the whole Roy killed Sara thing hurt their eyeballs) but there are enough dots for them to connect that they get why Felicity is doing or saying things.

Edited December 1, 2014 by SmallScreenDiva

[Password]

Ray, Felicity and their relationship is somewhat controversial in that there are probably 2 sides to it. I actually don't think anyone is wrong in their assessments. Discussing it makes it interesting, and there's nothing better than being really invested in the characters. Regardless of positive or negative reactions. (OK except Laurel because she mostly causes vitriol on this forum)

[calliope1975]

Ray, Felicity and their relationship is somewhat controversial in that there are probably 2 sides to it. I actually don't think anyone is wrong in their assessments. Discussing it makes it interesting, and there's nothing better than being really invested in the characters. Regardless of positive or negative reactions. (OK except Laurel because she mostly causes vitriol on this forum)

 

I agree. I'll read one post and be all "exactly!" Then I'll read another with an opposing view, and be all "but they're right, too!" It's interesting. I'm in the middle as I've said before. I don't fault Felicity for any of her actions, but there's something that's not sitting right with me about them. 

 

I used to be a bit self conscious about being so into TV, but then I look at my friends and co-workers who devote all their time to sports or fantasy leagues, and I realize we all have our things.

[BkWurm1]

I used to be a bit self conscious about being so into TV, but then I look at my friends and co-workers who devote all their time to sports or fantasy leagues, and I realize we all have our things.

 

So much this.  Throw the video gamers, the celebrity followers, the news junkies and reading addicts on to that list as well.  Even gym rats, marathon runners, foodies, home brewers, and gardeners deserve their place on the list.  Everyone has something that they are excited about that they could go on and on about while everyone else in the room is feeling their eyes glaze over.

 

The level of thoughtful, respectful, and intellectual discussion here is usually IMO on par with and often higher than any University discussion page I've participated in for classes.  

[dtissagirl]

I agree. I'll read one post and be all "exactly!" Then I'll read another with an opposing view, and be all "but they're right, too!" It's interesting. I'm in the middle as I've said before. I don't fault Felicity for any of her actions, but there's something that's not sitting right with me about them.

IT'S THE CRAZY EYES.

I've read and reread everyone's posts on this thread and I keep agreeing with everyone... BUT then my local WB aired 307 last night, and I got the refresher course in IRRATIONAL FEAR OF CRAZY EYES. So I'm giving up trying to rationalize my feelings about Palmer. I can barely look at him as it is, so he'll probably never ever be a real character for me. And so Felicity breathing the same air as him will forever bug me, because she's my faaavorite and I don't like it when she's onscreen with people who I think are gonna crawl out of the tv set and kill me dead.

Oh well.

Edited December 1, 2014 by dancingnancy

[Betweenthisandthat]

Discussing it makes it interesting, and there's nothing better than being really invested in the characters. Regardless of positive or negative reactions. (OK except Laurel because she mostly causes vitriol on this forum)

 

I stay away from anything to do with Laurel because I like her well enough and the vitriol against that character blows my mind and makes me sad.  Much easier to come here and have a chill conversation.

 

I loved Felicity quite a bit in the first season and I just wish I could like her just a bit more now this season than I do at the moment.  I don't want to overanalyze anything because it does do more damage than good.  But sometimes I see something and it bothers me and Felicity's characterization especially this season troubles me a bit without even thinking about it too much. Not that I believe thinking about things deeply is bad.  It's good.  Very good.  Seeing the flaws in something gives a thing some balance and adds perspective, which is something fandom needs desperately.  

 

Felicity has a lot of potential, like all the characters on this show. She was trapped in the Arrow cave and I fear that now she's trapped in a love triangle.  She can date Ray, Oliver, Barry, and whoever else comes down her path for all I care, but I fear that she is and will continue to be boxed in by the men she's romantically linked to because that's how the writers write her stories.

 

I suppose when I mean I'd like Felicity to make a big mistake I'm talking about the context of everyone else on the show who has screwed up and had that pointed out to them while slowly admitting to themselves that they have to change.  I don't mean she has to be as angsty as Oliver or torn up like all the other characters, but it would be a good opportunity to give her an arc, not just an episode, that was all about her, not about the men who are or used to be or will be in her life.  That's not asking for a lot.  It's kind of the bare minimum based on the few shows I watch that are able to accomplish this easily.  

Edited December 1, 2014 by Betweenthisandthat

[wonderwall]

Discussing it makes it interesting, and there's nothing better than being really invested in the characters. Regardless of positive or negative reactions. (OK except Laurel because she mostly causes vitriol on this forum)

 

I stay away from anything to do with Laurel because I like her well enough and the vitriol against that character blows my mind and makes me sad.  Much easier to come here and have a chill conversation.

 

Eh. the comments on this site aren't vitriolic whatsoever (though some posts can go overboard). Most (and by most I mean 99%) of the comments regarding Laurel are criticisms and not hateful. While people on this board may have hateful feelings towards Laurel, they're generally respectful. I think what's cool about this forum is that people here generally want to hear the other perspective. I want to see why people like Laurel and whether it's backed up by evidence that I'm missing or whether it's just pure fanwank. I tend to look for the former because I genuinely want to not be indifferent about a character who's obviously going to have more screen time. I like challenging people's views and I like my views being challenged. I suppose in this day and age, a lot of people on the internet would constitute this as an 'attack'... Which is quite sad... But, I suppose that's just me. Some people on this board are genuinely 'done' with the character but won't really criticize Laurel without any reason to. 

 

As for Felicity. I've been pretty quiet about her for the past week or so. I'm honestly don't know what to make of her scenes in episode 7. While I was watching it, I did tilt my head because I thought Felicity was being OOC. But as I watched the episode again and let the whole scene ruminate, I sort of get why she would do what she did. I had to fanwank, of course, but I understood.

 

I think Felicity's arc is coming off to be a little disconnected with the audience because I think the writers are relying way too much on EBR to get the message across with her acting instead of getting the message across through dialogue. Felicity's journey is a little disconnected where we only get to see the major things that happen in Felicity's life and not the minor things that got her there. That, I think, is a mistake on the writer's part.

 

I would much rather see Felicity build a relationship with Ray rather than see Laurel fight. I think that's more important because IMO relationships are a little more tricky because going from, "oh you're a stalker" to "Oh, I think you're awesome" is a lot more unbelievable to me than going from a shitty fighter to a less shitty fighter.

 

So there's merit to both sides of the argument. I happen to be in the middle. A partial reason is, is because I just don't care.  As much as I care for Felicity, I don't care for Ray whatsoever. I don't care if he's in Felicity's good graces or not. I don't care if Felicity gets together with Ray or not. I only find Ray to be a stepping stone in Felicity's journey and an unnecessary one at that. I can't wait till Felicity uses, abuses, then loses him because I honestly don't see Ray to be anything but a non-entity to the show. While some people enjoy him, I don't. Not really, because there's already way too much happening on the show and the writers are having trouble fleshing Ray's character out. I'm not really into half baked characters (ahem, Laurel). 

Edited December 2, 2014 by wonderwall

[Betweenthisandthat]

Eh. the comments on this site aren't vitriolic whatsoever (though some posts can go overboard)...I want to see why people like Laurel and whether it's backed up by evidence that I'm missing or whether it's just pure fanwank.

 

 

LOL, I wish so much that this were true to my experience or the limited ones I have had.  No one should have to prove why they like a character.  It's exhausting and ends up being a waste of time.

 

I have never watched The Flash because I watch something else in that time slot, but I've heard good things about Felicity's interaction with those characters and that cast.  I'm curious and excited to see that show and how she works with everyone else there.  I'm more interested in that than I am in anything much to do with Oliver and Barry.

[wonderwall]

LOL, I wish so much that this were true to my experience or the limited ones I have had.  No one should have to prove why they like a character.  It's exhausting and ends up being a waste of time.

 

I have never watched The Flash because I watch something else in that time slot, but I've heard good things about Felicity's interaction with those characters and that cast.  I'm curious and excited to see that show and how she works with everyone else there.  I'm more interested in that than I am in anything much to do with Oliver and Barry.

 

I mean, no one's asking you to prove why you like a character :p But it's kind of naive to not expect anyone to challenge your views as I've had to do so multiple times on this board or any board for that matter. It's fun for me :p But if you don't like to do that then that's cool. And if your experience here has been iffy here then I apologize. But I just don't see any hate. People here are generally a LOT more respectful than places like IMDB and tumblr so yeah... And this is the point of the moderators who I think have been doing a stellar job. If anyone goes over the line then people get warnings. I think it's a fair system. 

 

And I agree with you about Felicity's interaction with the Flash cast! From what we see, she seems a lot more grown up in the promos especially with the "please tell me we're not discussing this" or whatever. :) 

Edited December 2, 2014 by wonderwall

[SonofaBiscuit]

Eh. the comments on this site aren't vitriolic whatsoever (though some posts can go overboard). Most (and by most I mean 99%) of the comments regarding Laurel are criticisms and not hateful. While people on this board may have hateful feelings towards Laurel, they're generally respectful. I think what's cool about this forum is that people here generally want to hear the other perspective. I want to see why people like Laurel and whether it's backed up by evidence that I'm missing or whether it's just pure fanwank

 

I'm going to take this to the Small Talk Thread as my comments aren't limited to Laurel.

[foreverevolving]

The level of thoughtful, respectful, and intellectual discussion here is usually IMO on par with and often higher than any University discussion page I've participated in for classes.  

 

Yep, Yep. I really wish I had been this deep into Arrow in the summer of 2013, because my intro to psyc class professor gave us a project where we were asked to chose a TV character and analyze which psychological issue they have and than write about it. Could have used Oliver (PTSD to start), or hack even Malcolm! (PTSD, sociopath) I ended up choosing David Xavier AKA Legion from the X-men comics.

[Betweenthisandthat]

But it's kind of naive to not expect anyone to challenge your views as I've had to do so multiple times on this board or any board for that matter.

 

Don't mind having views challenged, but not as a prerequisite for any and every conversation about a controversial character.  Plus I simply don't appreciate the nature of certain conversations that endlessly surround certain characters. I can deal with it though if I'm realistic about where to go and where to avoid and what arguments simply aren't worth fighting.  I suspect this is a topic for a different thread, and I don't want to stray any further from the thread's subject.  

On topic, Felicity in The Flash has what I want her to have on The Arrow: other people to talk to.  Other women to talk to. That's all I want for her, a few more friends.  I'd be more than happy with seeing at least more Felicity and Diggle as long as they're talking not about her feelings for Oliver or Oliver's feelings for her on Arrow.  The other stuff was surprisingly entertaining too in the first half of the crossover.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Betweenthisandthat

[wonderwall]

As I expected, Felicity in The Flash has what I want her to have: other people to talk to.  Other women to talk to. That's all I want for her, a few more friends.  I'd be good with seeing more Felicity and Diggle talking not about her feelings for Oliver or Oliver's feelings for her on Arrow.  The other stuff was surprisingly entertaining too.  

YES PLEASE. I thought it was amazing how Caitlin told Felicity that it was so nice to talk to another woman and then proceed to talk about tech/sciency stuff. It was so great to see considering tech/sciency talk is apparently considered to be more 'boy' talk about and not 'girl' talk *rolls eyes*. 

[KenyaJ]

They passed the Bechdel test, and it was glorious. I hope we get more of that tomorrow night.

[Advance35]

That makes another successful appearance by Felicity Smoak.   I think I loved all of her scenes.    Her talk with Diggle about Big Belly Burger is just so them and than Flash carrying her to Star Labs and her blouse catching fire.  LMAO.   Cisco's reaction was hysterical as well.   Felicity really has a great rapport with Cisco and Caitlin.

 

I really liked seeing Caitlin and Felicity bond.

 

But OMG how freaked out was I by that scene between Dr. Wells and Felicity.  It went from making me laugh (Felicity's "What's up Doc?") to honestly chilling my blood a little.   The guy who plays Dr. Wells is really damn good.   He can come across as so menacing in a Wheel Chair.    And I was VERY impressed with Felicity's ability to stand up to him.

 

I don't think Felicity needs more love drama BUT if she were going to be in a love triangle I really wish it had been Barry/Felicity/Oliver because damn Barry/Felicity have such good chemistry.   It's purely friendly flirt now BUT I can't forget that closing scene on the train when she visited Central City the first time.   Surprisingly the episode had some really good Oliver/Felicity moments as well.    Oliver saying Felicity wouldn't stop until he agreed to help Barry.   Felicity paraphrasing Oliver's closing speech to Team!Flash.

[wonderwall]

I love this Felicity moment. She's just the cutest. First she's all "just go with it Oliver or so help me..." And then he does and she just gives the cutest nod :') 

 

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

I love this Felicity moment. She's just the cutest. First she's all "just go with it Oliver or so help me..." And then he does and she just gives the cutest nod :') 

 

Is she wearing a dress or a shirt because I really like the upper portion. 

 

Also this gif is made of win. I haven't seen the episode, but it is calling me witness on the big screen.

[wonderwall]

Is she wearing a dress or a shirt because I really like the upper portion. 

 

Also this gif is made of win. I haven't seen the episode, but it is calling me witness on the big screen.

It's a dress :) I really loved this on her! 

 

And can I just say that even my mother called me up after watching it and told me that they looked like an old married couple :p 

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

It's a dress :) I really loved this on her! 

 

And can I just say that even my mother called me up after watching it and told me that they looked like an old married couple :p 

 

Without all the pointless drama they are a fun couple. Sometimes being an old married couple isn't a bad thing. My parents have friends who are older and married and dangit if they aren't a hoot to be around. I could easily place them in that gif and it wouldn't be weird. Why? Because they care for each other, aren't afraid to call each other on the other's shit, and genuinely enjoy being around each other. 

[TwistedandBored]

I really loved Felicity in this crossover episode. She got to interact with almost all of the characters. Each one she had a special chemistry with. Loved that she bonded with Iris, Caitlin, and Cisco. It was a great episode for Felicity as a character. She really is the bridge between the two shows. Loved how she brought both superheroes together. 

[foreverevolving]

 

 

That my friends is the nod of a wife who is in charge. and Oliver being the good not-so-little head over heals puppy that he is just goes along with it.. plus she can ruin his life in the struck of a keyboard so.

 

it's like watching one of those comedies, where the guy thinks he wears the pants but.. yea not really. Hilarious.

Edited December 3, 2014 by foreverevolving

[Chaser]

I really love how comfortable Felicity was with Caitlyn and Cisco. There is a lot of mutual respect there. That being said, anyone else get a HBIC vibe from Felicity? I did and I loved it. 

 

I was watching Felicity while Iris was mooning over Oliver and that smile on her face was so cute. It was combination of "I have been there/thats my man."

Edited December 3, 2014 by 10Eleven12

[wonderwall]

I really love how comfortable Felicity was with Caitlyn and Cisco. There is a lot of mutual respect there. That being said, anyone else get a HBIC vibe from Felicity? I did and I loved it. 

 

I was watching Felicity well Iris was mooning over Oliver and that smile on her face was so cute. It was combination of "I have been there/thats my man."

She was basically the supervisor/adult of the group and it was amazing. Felicity pretty much wears the pants in every relationship she has and I love it. She doesn't demand respect, she takes it. I can totally see her being the team leader of Arrow. I mean why not? She's obviously the smartest out of the bunch, she is a critical thinker, she cares for her team so god damn much, she even has the respect of her team. I'm pretty sure Oliver/Digg/and even Roy would die for her and she would die for them. So yeah, I can totally see Felicity being the Team Arrow leader in the future. I can also see her being President of the Applied Science division of Queen Inc. Just sayin'. 

Edited December 3, 2014 by wonderwall

[calliope1975]

I can also see her being President of the Applied Science division of Queen Inc. Just sayin'. 

 

Let's be real - I'm pretty sure it's Felicity who negotiates the future merger with Wayne Tech that's been foretold on The Flash. I'll be writing fanfic in my head about her meetings with Bruce Wayne. Oliver's there, too, but he just sits in the back of the room looking pretty and super proud of his wife. 

[wonderwall]

Let's be real - I'm pretty sure it's Felicity who negotiates the future merger with Wayne Tech that's been foretold on The Flash. I'll be writing fanfic in my head about her meetings with Bruce Wayne. Oliver's there, too, but he just sits in the back of the room looking pretty and super proud of his wife. 

You know what my mind just cooked up? Harrison says that he expects to see great things from Felicity... What if he read that from the newspaper? About Felicity actually being the key to the Wayne Tech and Queen inc negotiations? Maybe that's how he knows about the 'great' things Felicity will do later on in her life... Oh I hope this is true lol But I don't think the writers have really thought this out which is quite unfortunate. 

[foreverevolving]

My brain have already canon established that Felicity is the co-owner and CEO of Queen Inc. and Oliver probably COO or something like that.

But yes, now i need those fics to be written, cause damn it!

Edited December 3, 2014 by foreverevolving

[Password]

Someone needs to zoom in on the text in the newspaper Wells reads about the merger.

[wonderwall]

You know what I would really, really like to see? Felicity having an adversarial relationship with someone on either The Flash or Arrow, like Harrison Wells. I love her when she stands up to someone just like she stood up to Moira last season. I think it's interesting to see Felicity not back down and it really shows her inner strength when it comes to out-foxing someone like Moira or just being wary of them/keeping an eye on them. 

Edited December 3, 2014 by wonderwall