Felicity Smoak: Bitch With Wifi

[Ang]

More and more people have been saying that her character is 'useless' and 'expendable' (which imo I don't understand. Felicity has a unique skill that no one on the show can replace unless they bring in another genius on the same caliber as Felicity), and I wonder if the writers feel that too? I think Felicity is safe for season 4, but I think she might be in trouble for season 5 onwards. Hmm. 

 

[....]At the same time though, I can't imagine the team working properly without her. If the team actually fought crime this season, I'm sure she would've been useful... 

I think you hit the nail on the head right here. Felicity hasn't become useless so much as we haven't had the opportunity to see her being useful very often. Plus, they've made even the most incredible technological feats seem run-of-the-mill, so without Felicity's usual techy-joie-de-vivre, what had been remarkable or fun in previous seasons is either nonexistent or utterly flat this season. In combination with the points made above about Ray, it hasn't left anything but some rather joyless or forced character interactions for the audience to hold onto with her. Hence all the talk of propping and uselessness.

 

As for her long-term prognosis? I'm feeling that MG et al are a little more comfortable with Felicity not taking over their little costume drama, as seemed possible after the end of last season. I think she's safe for quite a while, but down the road? I can totally see Felicity biting it for drama. My only hope is that it's season 7 or later and comes after her honeymoon with Oliver. ;-) 

[CabotCove]

. And the writing has isolated her with that person, which will naturally bring questions about what she offers to a show that people want to be about Oliver Queen and his team.

 

Wait 'no one' questions what Diggle offers, despite that he had very little to do or say this season. Felicity has a unique skill and role, without her the team can't do their job and she has been in pretty much all the episodes helping them out even when she didn't want to work with Malcolm. How is that even questionable.

 

Part of the problem is that one of the reasons people loved Felicity is because she brought humor and light to that very dour Arrow cave.

i think thats an unfair and unrealistic heavy burden for a character to carry, especially for an entire series' run and alone.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Conell

[statsgirl]

It is an unfair and heavy burden but no one else has stepped up to help with the lifting, unless you consider Ray's gaffes.

 

And so with Felicity also being sad this season, the show has got more and more depressing. It's understandable that viewers want the funny, surface Felicity back.

 

Wait 'no one' questions what Diggle offers, despite that he had very little to do or say this season.

There is always a double standard for male vs female characters.  Even in 2015, most action drama shows are weighted 3:1 to male characters (e.g. NCIS, Hawaii  5-0, Gotham, Forever, X Company) and few people complain about male redundancy.   The Flash has 5 male regulars and 2 women.  Even Agent Carter has Peggy vs 3 male regulars.

[Danny Franks]

Wait 'no one' questions what Diggle offers, despite that he had very little to do or say this season. Felicity has a unique skill and role, without her the team can't do their job and she has been in pretty much all the episodes helping them out even when she didn't want to work with Malcolm. How is that even questionable.

 

Ask the people who are asking that question. There's no shortage of them out there, it seems. It's the same question that was asked about Laurel in the first two seasons, where she was only tangentially connected to anything that's going on with Oliver and co. If the main thrust of her storyline involves a character and narrative that is, as yet, totally unrelated to Oliver Queen and the Arrow and everything going on with the actual significant characters on the show, then it doesn't surprise me at all if some people are questioning Felicity's value.

 

As far as I can tell, Diggle doesn't have a storyline going on outside the Arrow Cave (except for his wife and kid, but again from what I can tell, there's no story there at the moment). He isn't taking up screentime with a narrative that a lot of people aren't interested in. Felicity is, because she's stuck in scenes with Ray.

[Ang]

And so with Felicity also being sad this season, the show has got more and more depressing. It's understandable that viewers want the funny, surface Felicity back.

 

My first response was, well, it's possible to be sad and funny at the same time. Felicity has rarely tried for laughs so much as seen the humor inherent in even dark circumstances. 

 

Then, though, I realized how much I appreciate EBR's (arguably supported) attempts to flesh out Felicity with the few lines and little screentime she's been given this season. Looking at the lines in Nanda Parbat, Felicity doesn't get to have much of a reaction to Oliver leaving yet again. But you do see little moments where she's showing emotion that isn't written in (because they're writing for Oliver, and she's female and thus has no emotions unless relevant, I assume the writers conclude). She's got the "et tu, Diggle" moment atomicflea pointed out, where she notices unhappily that she's being asked to leave when before she probably would have been included in the discussion between Diggle and Oliver. She's got possible tears in her eyes as she looks out Ray's window. And, most significantly to me, she's sounds like she's fighting tears when she tells Laurel about the Lian Yu prison - a line that could have been played as light Felicity fluff. It came immediately after her frustrated, "and how did that work out for you??" line to Oliver, and I really appreciate that they squeezed in a little bit more depth with that little detail.

[statsgirl]

I think partly what it was is that Felicity had a lot of sorrow and hardship in her life, far more than Laurel and maybe even more than Thea but she never let it weigh her down.  Even in Corto Maltese, shortly after she got blown up and Oliver dumped her, and then Sara died, she was still making jokes and acting light-hearted while Oliver grumped around the Arrow lair.

 

That's Felicity's superpower, that even with her childhood and her father leaving and what happened with Cooper, she picks herself up, dusts herself off and starts all over again while Oliver is angsting, Diggle if taciturn and Laurel is blaming the world for leaving her.

 

Season 3, she hasn't been able to do much of that, especially after the cross-over episodes  Oliver's had it rough but she's had it nearly as bad and I think she's cried more than every other character put together.

 

EBR has done her best to stay true to the character, both in sorrow and resilience but she hasn't been supported by the writers who have really isolated Felicity into a bubble with Ray and Laurel instead of giving her scenes where she can process things with a friend. Other than a brief moment with Diggle when Merlyn brought the sword to them (Diggle's big moment came with Laurel), the last time Felicity could really talk with a friend was a scene with Roy in 3x02's Sara.

[wonderwall]

I honestly don't understand why crying is equated to weakness. I myself cry really easily but that doesn't mean I'm a weak person. Just because Felicity has cried more than anyone this season doesn't mean that her strength from previous seasons is gone. It just shows that Felicity wears her heart on her sleeve which is true to character. Felicity is a very emotional woman, but that doesn't ever stop her from doing what's right. She never gives up, she never lets all the shitty things in life get to her. Unlike Laurel, Felicity never blames other people for her problems, unlike Oliver she never lets the pain take over and let it dictate her life and choices. If there's one thing the writers did right this season, it's to show that Felicity is a strong individual who never gives up no matter how hard life beats her down. 

 

This is why it's baffling to see some people say that she's been reduced to this whiny, bitchy individual. 

[kismet]

So reading in the Laurel thread about MG being asked about the salmon ladder and LL or FS being able to do it. I think it would be really awesome if Felicity one day was just doing the salmon ladder in the

new

foundry. And is just like "what?" when the other members of TA come strolling in. Personally, I do see it within FS character to attempt to try the salmon ladder. I loved that scene when she was training with the punch dummy when Sara returned. It sorta makes sense that she would want to train and be able to take care of herself to a certain degree. Plus, she does have a rocking body that she could use to impress OQ on the ladder. Maybe we'll get to see it in S4, according to SA the ladder looks harder than it really is.

[statsgirl]

Just because Felicity has cried more than anyone this season doesn't mean that her strength from previous seasons is gone. It just shows that Felicity wears her heart on her sleeve which is true to character.

I don't think her strength is gone. But has she ever cried on the show before other than at Moira's funeral?  I see her as the type not to cry but to see what she can do to fix the situation and then get on with it.

 

I think it indicates 1. how much they have thrown at her this season and 2 how little time she has had to recover.

 

The actress who plays Edith on Downton Abbey asked Julian Fellowes if Edith could have a bit of a break because with all the tragedies and traumas given to her, she should be in a mental hospital. That's how I'm starting to feel about Felicity, isolated from her friends Oliver, Diggle, Roy and Caitlyn.  A couple of scene propping Laurel and her babysitting Ray do not good times make.

Edited March 7, 2015 by statsgirl

[wonderwall]

I don't think her strength is gone. But has she ever cried on the show before other than at Moira's funeral?  I see her as the type not to cry but to see what she can do to fix the situation and then get on with it.

 

I think it indicates 1. how much they have thrown at her this season and 2 how little time she has had to recover.

 

Well to be fair, nothing bad really happened to her before this season. She never had to face a death of a friend (not really), she never had to face her ex boyfriend coming back to kill her, she never had to face Oliver's death... She had a lot of tough stuff to deal with. Felicity had similarly cried in tough situations though, (during the undertaking, Moira's funeral, her impassioned speech to Oliver at the end of season 2, etc.)

 

Seasons 1 and 2 weren't really focused on beating Felicity down, season 3, however, is focused on that. It's no wonder she's been crying. Can one really blame her? She's gone through all of this crap in less than half a year. That's a lot of crap to deal with. That too she has no one really to talk to so obviously she's going to be a little more emotional. 

[statsgirl]

She was threatened and tied up by Helena, lived through the earthquake that destroyed the lair, jumped out of a plane, stepped on a landmine, kidnapped and almost killed by The Dollmaker, and kidnapped and threatened with an overdose of vertigo by the count.  (And that's only what easily comes to mind.) But I don't recall her crying through any of that.

 

I don't blame her at all for crying this season, I've cried too and I'm safely on the other side of the TV set.  But I do see it as a reason why some of the audience doesn't like her this year.

[wonderwall]

She was threatened and tied up by Helena, lived through the earthquake that destroyed the lair, jumped out of a plane, stepped on a landmine, kidnapped and almost killed by The Dollmaker, and kidnapped and threatened with an overdose of vertigo by the count.  (And that's only what easily comes to mind.) But I don't recall her crying through any of that.

 

I don't blame her at all for crying this season, I've cried too and I'm safely on the other side of the TV set.  But I do see it as a reason why some of the audience doesn't like her this year.

 

Threatened and tied up by Helena -- she showed that she was scared but didn't cry

 

Lived through an earthquake -- She did cry in this moment when Oliver asked if she was OK over the comms

 

Jumped out of a plane -- she didn't cry but was scared and did throw up (this isn't an emotional moment though)

 

Stepped on a landmine -- she didn't have time to react until Oliver saved her

 

almost killed by the dollmaker -- to be honest I don't remember this episode

 

Almost killed by the vertigo -- she did cry (you could see it after Oliver killed the count and Felcity said "you're hurt")

 

I've just seen a lot of complaints that Felicity has become season 2 Laurel because she's been crying a lot. It's unsettling because the way Felicity has been handling her stress/loss/all the crap that's been happening is way healthier and normal than the way Laurel handled it. Laurel was terrible at handling grief (she even turned to her addictions), but Felicity always rose above that. 

[Password]

Well for 2 seasons Felicity was a bright spot on the show - and for Oliver - along with being extremely intelligent, snarky, standing up to Oliver and just being a general joy in what can be grim viewing. Now she's (understandably) grim herself.

If you watched for Felicity it's understandable that what you're seeing now is not what you signed up for. I don't think the writers have established a good balance for emotional/crying Felicity, and what made her so appealing (although she's snarking in spades).

I thought Felicity hanging out with Ray would allow them to bring back her...more positive side. I thought that is what he was introduced to do, but their interactions have been wrought with emotion too. Add to that we've not been allowed into her mind (fingers crossed with mama Smoak) and it's all a little too much. As if becoming Oliver's LI has the disadvantage of airports of baggage too. Which it probably does.

[HighHopes]

I have a feeling if Felicity wasn't crying there would still be people calling for her head for being emotionless. It's a lose lose situation here. She cries and she's weak. And if she didn't cry after everything that's happened to her this season she would (most likely) be called an unfeeling, emotionless bitch (by certain parts of the fandom). There was already complaints from some parts of the fandom prior to season three that she was too much of a Mary Sue, too perfect, was never shown in a bad light, etc. So this season they change that, she cries, she makes some mistakes, she allows her emotions to get the better of her a time or two, and the fandom still isn't happy with her. There's not much you can do with a female character that will please the entire fandom sadly (no matte the fandom or character).

 

To me, the Felicity we are watching now is the same Felicity she has been for the past two seasons. She's just grown some and experienced some really emotionally draining shit, so of course she wouldn't the happy bubbly person she was in season one. 

[wonderwall]

It's funny that I'm hoping for Momma Smoak to allow us to see what Felicity is feeling when that's what should be happening with Ray considering their scenes are like we're watching a different show. I was hoping that with Ray we'd get an insight on what Felicity feels, but unfortunately, their scenes are more about Ray than Felicity which really sucks. I feel like I probably would've liked them more if their scenes were about both of them equally, but nope... 

 

I agree with HighHopes that the Felicity we see today is still the same Felicity. I don't know why people have been saying that she's become a pod person. Maybe it's because she disagrees with Oliver now? Though she's been shown to disagree with him before, but apparently she's been made more cruel (with that scene in the alley) and her sleeping with Ray made her needy (which I say, good for her. She deserves to take things for herself for once)... 

 

What's sad to me that a lot of these detractors are people who aren't even trying to understand Felicity's POV. I guess this is because the writers aren't even trying to show her thought process. 

 

It's a circle of doom, I suppose. 

[BkWurm1]

As for her long-term prognosis? I'm feeling that MG et al are a little more comfortable with Felicity not taking over their little costume drama, as seemed possible after the end of last season. I think she's safe for quite a while, but down the road? I can totally see Felicity biting it for drama. My only hope is that it's season 7 or later and comes after her honeymoon with Oliver. ;-)

 

I feel a lot more comfortable with Felicity's survival looking back on how Smallville handled Chloe.  As the new creation and constant rival in the fan's hearts over the designated love interests, she was constantly on the death watch.  I remember assuring my friends in season 3 that I would stop bugging them with crazy talk about Smallville because I was pretty sure they were going to kill off Chloe but somehow she survived all ten seasons and into the future.  It gives me more confidence that the network won't let a character with their own extremely strong following to be killed off.  Doesn't mean EBR might end up with plans that change everything, but I feel pretty confident that no matter her role on the show, they won't kill her off unless the actress wants to leave before the show is done. 

 

 

 

She was threatened and tied up by Helena, lived through the earthquake that destroyed the lair, jumped out of a plane, stepped on a landmine, kidnapped and almost killed by The Dollmaker, and kidnapped and threatened with an overdose of vertigo by the count.  (And that's only what easily comes to mind.) But I don't recall her crying through any of that.

 

I don't blame her at all for crying this season, I've cried too and I'm safely on the other side of the TV set.  But I do see it as a reason why some of the audience doesn't like her this year.

I think that it's safe to say that death on top of trauma is too much even for the most well adjusted person.  Seasons 1-2 came with a lot of trauma, but in season 3, people she loves are dying and way too often (fortunately it didn't stick with Oliver) and then on top of losing people she's had trauma not only of the normal Team Arrow kind, but of a constant personal nature and yeah, she's been cut off from the family she created with Oliver and Dig and even Roy.  Cue the tears.

 

I know while watching the show I was looking forward to when she stopped crying not because her tears annoyed me but it hurt to watch her constantly in pain.  I think she's never going to be as vulnerable as she has been this season again and I guess I find it bittersweet that Felicity has had to build up her defenses when she' d faced tragedy in the past and was able to put it behind her.  Maybe she can again, but right now any smiles feel forced.  

 

But honestly, right now I prefer it that way.       

Edited March 7, 2015 by BkWurm1

[tv echo]

Recent MG comment on Felicity at http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/

olicityalways asked:
"The writing for Felicity, IMO, cheapened her character. She has always been a strong, principled, loving, giving woman of character. She’s gone through a huge transformation after suffering the loss of Oliver. But, I would never see her change her principles and how she believes in human nature as she’s been portrayed. It wasn’t the idea that Felicity slept with Ray, it’s the way Felicity is shown to seek solace, or rebound in Ray. To me, she has abandoned the person she really is."via examiner

Suffice is to say, I disagree.  Ray represents all the things she’s not getting from Oliver at the moment.  I think she made an active and mature and healthy choice given where things stand between her and Oliver.

http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/

Edited March 7, 2015 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

I personally don't think rebounds are ever the mature healthy choice but what's obvious in hindsight is rarely there before hand in deciding just how active the choice is influenced by the rebound effect.

I don't see her having abandoned who she is. We're just seeing her react to a situation we have not seen her in before and since most women don't get told "I might love you, but you distract me, we can't be together" then get told they are definitely loved and anything she asked is what he'd do followed by the death and resurrection of said guy who then comes back and immediately makes it clear he's not going to do anything different in regards them, but will start behaving as a more reprehensible person...yeah, I'm not sure if any of us have a playbook for that one.

Based on that foundation I could easily make a case for defending her rebounding on just about anyone that showed her a modicum of respect and appreciation.

Edited March 7, 2015 by BkWurm1

[dtissagirl]

The problem for me is I'm really not sure the writing is telling us that Felicity is rebounding. And this Guggenheim answer calling it "mature and healthy" pings my LOL NO alert. I mean. I know he's not gonna say "yeah, sure, she's rebounding hard" because that takes the ~mystery out of his plan. However, Felicity is rebounding [and so is Crazy Eyed Robot, btw], but this is the exact same problem they had writing Oliver/Sara last season -- they wrote the relationship one way, the audience saw it another. Side effects are irritation, cognitive dissonance, and throwing shoes at TV sets.

Edited March 7, 2015 by dancingnancy

[Genki]

The problem for me is that she is rebounding with a guy who doesn't accept her boundaries. The fact that it has happened more than once and Felicity lets it go means that she is OOC to me.

 

I fanwank that Oliver working with Malcolm, shows Felicity that Oliver hasn't learnt form his mistakes and he is on the same destructive path that will lead to his death and her loosing him. So she is pulling back (this also ties in with my Theory on why there is no Felicity/Thea scenes, since it will be hard for Felicity to hold onto the frustration at Oliver when Thea is there and not as an abstract concept that Oliver is protecting) her going to Ray isn't healthy because there is no way it isn't about Oliver. If it were Barry or anyone else but Ray, I wouldn't find it so frustrating.

[wonderwall]

The problem for me is I'm really not sure the writing is telling us that Felicity is rebounding. And this Guggenheim answer calling it "mature and healthy" pings my LOL NO alert. I mean. I know he's not gonna say "yeah, sure, she's rebounding hard" because that takes the ~mystery out of his plan. However, Felicity is rebounding [and so is Crazy Eyed Robot, btw], but this is the exact same problem they had writing Oliver/Sara last season -- they wrote the relationship one way, the audience saw it another. Side effects are irritation, cognitive dissonance, and throwing shoes at TV sets.

 

Yep. The problem is that I'm afraid the writers are going to try to make Raylicity more than what it is when even the audience knows better. IDK I hope they don't. 

 

And Felicity rebounding with a guy with no boundaries... yeah, that's an issue with me as well. I would never have thought she would ever give Ray a chance, but this season is a season of characters acting OOC for plot so...

[Password]

The problem for me is I'm really not sure the writing is telling us that Felicity is rebounding. And this Guggenheim answer calling it "mature and healthy" pings my LOL NO alert. I mean. I know he's not gonna say "yeah, sure, she's rebounding hard" because that takes the ~mystery out of his plan. However, Felicity is rebounding [and so is Crazy Eyed Robot, btw], but this is the exact same problem they had writing Oliver/Sara last season -- they wrote the relationship one way, the audience saw it another. Side effects are irritation, cognitive dissonance, and throwing shoes at TV sets.

Ginormus yes to this. MG and co don't find any of Ray's actions inappropriate and think Raylicity is actually healthy when it rather seems Felicity is rebounding with Oliver lite. It's not healthy at all.

[CabotCove]

There's not much you can do with a female character that will please the entire fandom sadly (no matte the fandom or character).

 

Sad truth indeed.

 

Ginormus yes to this. MG and co don't find any of Ray's actions inappropriate and think Raylicity is actually healthy when it rather seems Felicity is rebounding with Oliver lite.

 

Have that been confirmed to be the case or its just a perception. 

Even if, it wouldn't necessarily mean that they aren't more layers to the story, its a scripted TV show. 

Edited March 12, 2015 by Conell

[lemotomato]

I saw a mention of Felicity's gunshot scar in another thread and it made me wonder if it was shown in 3x15? I can't really bring myself to re-watch that part to confirm or not. 

[apinknightmare]

I saw a mention of Felicity's gunshot scar in another thread and it made me wonder if it was shown in 3x15? I can't really bring myself to re-watch that part to confirm or not. 

 

Not that we saw, but depending on how R&F did their business, Ray might've seen it.

Have that been confirmed to be the case or its just a perception. 

 

AK kind of confirmed it last night in a PaleyFest interview that Ray is the emotionally available version of Oliver, and unlike Oliver is willing to get past the painful things that have happened to him and give life another try with Felicity. 

[statsgirl]

But would he recognize it? Or even ask?

 

Seems like he got out of bed pretty fast once his creative juices were restored.  (That will never not offend me.)

Have that been confirmed to be the case or its just a perception. 

Even if, it wouldn't necessarily mean that they aren't more layers to the story, its a scripted TV show. 

There may be more layers but since every move Felicity has ever made towards Ray has been the result of Oliver shutting  her out, it's pretty much the definition of rebound.

[Danny Franks]

It's mature and healthy to project your frustrated feelings about one guy onto another, and sleep with him because he's agreeing with whatever you say instead of having his own opinion and sticking to it? Jesus, I'd hate to see what Guggenheim thinks is unhealthy.

 

But i guess this dichotomy is what happens when you're trying to tell opposing stories with one paper-thin character (Ray). They want him to be a romantic obstacle to Oliver, so Felicity only turns to him because of Oliver's actions. But they also want him to be a hero in his own right, who deserves the respect of the audience and want to use Felicity to try and force that view, which means they want viewers to believe he is worthy of being with Felicity. 

 

I don't see how they ever thought it would work.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Danny Franks

[kismet]

I saw a mention of Felicity's gunshot scar in another thread and it made me wonder if it was shown in 3x15? I can't really bring myself to re-watch that part to confirm or not. 

I think MG addressed it on his tumblr & said that they weren't able to get it in on the day it was shooting. It was something they thought they would be able to get but weren't able to do it.

[wonderwall]

Regardless of whatever is going on in the show I'm loving Felicity's wardrobe transformation. It's becoming a lot more professional/power woman! I still can't get over the grey dress she wore in 3x09 lmao

[Chaser]

I think MG addressed it on his tumblr & said that they weren't able to get it in on the day it was shooting. It was something they thought they would be able to get but weren't able to do it.

If the intention was to have a glimpse of the scar during the sexing with Ray, then I'm glad it was cut. I would prefer they bring it back for a character moment for Felicity. Personally, I would love her and her mother to talk about it.

[Sunshine]

I have seen mentioned in several threads here, twitter, tumblr, etc that Felicity has abandonment issues.  I know her father left when she was young.  2.13 had her worried about losing Oliver over Thea's parentage secret. In 3.05 she thought Cooper had committed suicide.

 

Do you think the show actually portrays her as having abandonment issues?  She's not clingy.  She doesn't talk about people always leaving her.  In interviews I have read the EPs say she's probably the most emotionally healthy and mature of all the characters.  Cooper dies so she fundamentally changes who she is (at least superficially) and gets on with life.  Oliver decides his life is a dead end so she picks up the pieces of her life and walks through the door of new opportunities.  I am not a psychologist or therapist or anything else so I might not know the actual signs but if someone asked AK or MG do you think they would say she has abandonment issues?

Edited March 19, 2015 by Sunshine

[statsgirl]

I wouldn't bet on AK or MG knowing what abandonment issues are.

 

I think Felicity can be the healthiest emotionally on the show, except for Diggle, and yet still have abandonment issues because everyone has issues they haven't dealt with even after years of therapy.  However, we did see how scared she was of losing Oliver when Moira threatened her with that if she told about Thea's paternity.

 

I think the time the question will come into play is if she and Oliver ever get together and he goes off yet again to kill himself.  Right now, she's still got her boundaries up with respect to Oliver being her lover and shes with Ray so it's safe to open up to Oliver because they are just friends.  If it ever goes beyond that, we'll see if the EPs think she's got abandonment issues.

[apinknightmare]

We know Felicity is afraid of losing people, because she's said as much. But I don't think she has classic abandonment issues since she doesn't stop herself from forming emotional attachments in order to keep herself from losing them. I mean, I'm not a psychiatrist, but it seems to me if she was worried about losing people to the point where it would affect her relationships that she'd keep herself from forming meaningful relationships in the first place. 

 

So, while I think she has that worry in the back of her mind, it doesn't stop her from following her heart. 

Edited March 19, 2015 by apinknightmare

[slayer2]

I can't tell the difference between this and the last episode on Feb 25 because I marathoned them last night. I didn't even know Nanda Par bat happened until I saw the previously scenes on this week's ep. So forgive me if I get the eps mixed up.

I was really surprised by the stark contrast between Felcity's happy life with Ray and her dark, angsty little world in the Arrow cave. It was the first time that I actually wondered why Felicity would ever want to be with Oliver.

It seems like he doesn't even have a personality anymore and she had all the spunk and flare of season 1 Felicity which helped pull me into the show. I like the Felicity I get to see with Ray, I missed that light side of her and Arrow. Leave Oliver to his dark days and angsty nights.

[olicityfan25]

Oliver was upbeat in the final scene with Felicity. He will never be a happy go lucky kind of guy unless Starling City saves itself without Oliver having to sacrifice his entire life to keep saving it. I'm talking from a point of view where he and Felicity are together. Because you can tell the subtle changers in him shen he's with her. He is happy. Ray wasn't even really paying attention to her when she was talking. Plus we all know he's just a momentary distraction. Freakin' Diggle even yelled that to Oliver.

 

Hopefully when the show ends they can go somewhere else to start a brand new life together.

[statsgirl]

Felicity being happy with Ray and angsty with Oliver is a result of the bad writing this season.  Basically, they took away everything that was good about her relationship with Oliver and gave it to her relationship with Ray. 

 

Is she really happy with Ray?  We don't know, we haven't seen enough of them together and he did leave her in bed alone to go play with his new suit.  The thing is, Ray listens to her and until The Offer, Oliver didn't.

 

We know Felicity is afraid of losing people, because she's said as much. But I don't think she has classic abandonment issues since she doesn't stop herself from forming emotional attachments in order to keep herself from losing them. I mean, I'm not a psychiatrist, but it seems to me if she was worried about losing people to the point where it would affect her relationships that she'd keep herself from forming meaningful relationships in the first place.

It could go the other way though, she could form inappropriate and clinging relationships like Cupid does.

 

According to Bowlby and Ainsworth's Attachment Theory, as long as a child remains securely attached to one parent, the anxious, avoidant and insecure patterns wouldn't develop, so I guess we can thank Donna for Felicity not having a full-blown attachment disorder. Also the disorders tend to develop before the age of four and her father left around age six.

 

With her father leaving and later Cooper "dying", her issues may show up in increased anxiety about forming deep personal attachments for fear of losing the other person.  Notice that she and Ray have "a something", not a relationship, and how upset she gets every time Oliver goes away to die.  The last time she reacted by getting into bed with Ray, not exactly a healthy reaction.

 

But basically Felicity is a fictional character whose emotional issues come into play when it serves the plot.

Edited March 19, 2015 by statsgirl

[slayer2]

I personally like Ray, I thought he was paying lovely attention to her in listening to her suggestion after she quasi blackmailed him and appreciating her for it in the end. I will always love BR he is my Superman and I like Ray (despite the name confusion) a lot but I don't attribute her happiness to Ray.

I don't think it would matter who Felicity was with (aside from Oliver) my point is she's CHOOSING to BE happy and live and enjoy her life and it is a refreshing side of her to see that she had compartmentalized her love for Oliver and realized that yes she can care deeply for him but still live and move on with her own life. It doesn't have to consume her, and I love that.

Edited March 19, 2015 by slayer2

[statsgirl]

She's choosing not to let Oliver drag her down.  I don't know if she's actually choosing to be happy because that's a much more complex thing and to some extent dependent on other people.

 

If she doesn't know yet that Ray's suit works, when she finds out that Ray has been lying to her, how is she going to take it?

[slayer2]

I don't think choosing to be happy is dependent on other people at all at least it certainly isn't supposed to be. But I do believe that is what she's choosing as per her dexlaration to Oliver after Sara died when she had her epiphany which lead him to utter the saddest line in the series.

[Advance35]

Good Lord, If I were the CW I would DEMAND the entire Writing Staff of Arrow in my office IMMEDIATELY.   For the record I LOVE Felicity Smoak, I think she's dynamic, smart, charismatic and humorous.   I think she bought interesting dynamics and a needed levity to the Arrow Canvas and the character has delivered for 2 solid seasons.   The show has quite a few things wrong with it as of now BUT torpedoing one of their Marquis Characters is a mis-step I'm surprised they are not making strong steps to correct.

 

Sequestering the Felicity character off on Gilligans Island with Ray Palmer....HUGE mistake.   She should be interacting with Oliver, Diggle, Roy, Det. Lance and Laurel (I guess).   This BULK of screentime with Ray Palmer, one scene to fight with Oliver, and physically being in the same scene but not interacting with "insert character" is ridiculous.  

 

Ray Palmer is NOT working.  I didn't think it would when BR was cast and I see that my worst fears have been realized.   Felicity is in steerage on the Titanic.  I see a distinct LACK of chemistry between BR and EBR, the characters themselves don't inspire either fun or interest when together (quite a feat considering Felicity Smoak is usually a sure thing in that regard), and that suite looks ABSURD.   This whole thing is ill-conceived and in terms of Ray's pathos, trite.

 

The few scenes we get where Oliver/Felicity are written in an organic manner are wonderful and they prove (even in the landfill that was last nights show) that they still have wonderful chemistry but something needs to be done.   I'm focusing on the Felicity aspect but the entire show has problems this year.  Has there been a change of staff in the writing room?   I have to pray for a FLASH crossover in hopes of getting some QUALITY Felicity Smoak screen time, that's wrong.

 

Like I said if I were a higher up at the CW, I'd demand EVERYONE in my office and someone's head would roll.

 

Sorry for the rant just had to get that out.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Advance35

[NumberCruncher]

The few scenes we get where Oliver/Felicity are written in an organic manner are wonderful and they prove (even in the landfill that was last nights show) that they still have wonderful chemistry but something needs to be done.   I'm focusing on the Felicity aspect but the entire show has problems this year.  Has there been a change of staff in the writing room?   I have to pray for a FLASH crossover in hopes of getting some QUALITY Felicity Smoak screen time, that's wrong.

Even more than that, Felicity has been written more true-to-character and gotten more backstory on The Flash than on Arrow which is pathetic. I don't recognize my favorite character much anymore and that makes me sad. I don't have a problem with her standing up for herself or to Oliver. I don't even have a problem with her sleeping with someone besides Oliver. What I do hate is that they have reduced her into nothing more than an object of desire for male characters. Also I despise her choice in Ray whom I have a huge problem with from a characterization standpoint and that they have made her do some downright cruel things this season all in the name of propping up other characters.

I've never been one to pile on female characters for having strong opinions or weaknesses--that's a big reason why I don't join in with the hate on Laurel on this board--but the writing for Felicity this season has pushed her into some pretty unlikable territory for entirely unnecessary reasons. She perpetuates the deception about Sara's death to protect Laurel. She accuses Oliver of wanting her boyfriend dead out of nowhere. She shacks up with Ray, he lies to her, berates her, and she apologizes to him. All of this happens in reaction to everyone else and none of it adds to the development of HER story. I don't understand how they went off the rails so badly this year but the fact that I have to read the reaction on message boards before I decide whether to dare watch the further destruction of a character I love in each episode is frustrating. She's not the only one for which this is happening, of course, but that's for another thread.

Edited March 26, 2015 by NumberCruncher

[lexicon]

She's choosing not to let Oliver drag her down.  I don't know if she's actually choosing to be happy because that's a much more complex thing and to some extent dependent on other people.

 

If she doesn't know yet that Ray's suit works, when she finds out that Ray has been lying to her, how is she going to take it?

 

Well we found out the answer to those questions and if anything I've even more perplexed. She did not know that the suit was working because Mr Perfect did not deem it necessary to tell her and when she did find out it was just a throwaway line in a conversation where he accused her of keeping secrets from him. Not only was it a blink and you miss it reference to her finding this information out for the first time but she wasn't upset about him not telling her because she was too busy trying to prove that he should trust her and that they should be partners instead.  Then comes the real kicker, where she apologises to him and they NEVER mention his failure to tell her about the suit again.

 

Oh Felicity the things they're doing to you in the name of servicing the plot and propping other characters is CRIMINAL and yes @Advance35 I agree, it should be a firing offence

[apinknightmare]

^I keep hoping that Felicity isn't calling Ray out on his keeping things from her and on the fact that he kept the fact that the suit is working from her in the same episode where she's arguing that she's a partner to him in his mission and in his life because we're going to find out that she's forcing herself to look past that in order to believe that she has with Ray what she can't have with Oliver. 

 

But I know that's giving the people behind the show way too much credit, haha. 

[Password]

I'll be honest Felicity is a bit of a mess right now with Ray. When she says she's very happy with Ray I snort and say "Sure, Jan." When she's sprouting off about partners and Ray offering that to her I side eye it because this episode proved how much they're weren't partners. She desperately wants something and I'm glad she knows what she wants. But someone needs to have a talk with her so she can clear her mind and realise what a contradiction her and Ray's actions are to their words.

[Chaser]

Romantic Felicity and Ray is like Romantic Oliver and Laurel; I don't recognize Felicity or Oliver.

[Genki]

N

 

Well we found out the answer to those questions and if anything I've even more perplexed. She did not know that the suit was working because Mr Perfect did not deem it necessary to tell her and when she did find out it was just a throwaway line in a conversation where he accused her of keeping secrets from him. Not only was it a blink and you miss it reference to her finding this information out for the first time but she wasn't upset about him not telling her because she was too busy trying to prove that he should trust her and that they should be partners instead.  Then comes the real kicker, where she apologises to him and they NEVER mention his failure to tell her about the suit again.

 

Not only did she find out about the suit working with that line, he also admitted to lifting software from her. I doubt she was working on facial recognition software for Palmer Tech, maybe she was intending to give it to him, but since it Identified Oliver so easily, I'm not sure. Surely there is some Cooper-esque Red Flags being raised here.

 

I'm going to give Felicity a pass for the rest of the season and reevaluate her "storyline" as a whole once 2.23 airs. Hopefully PICDD (Plot Induced Character Dissociation Disorder) is a curable disease. 

[statsgirl]

As others have said, if we didn't know that Ray Palmer was supposed to be a hero, the 'villain' bells would be tolling loud and clear.

 

If nothing else, she should be angry that he took her software assuming that she hasn't known the suit has been working the whole time she's been sleeping with him.

But no, she apologizes to him for keeping Oliver's secret. This is either PodFelicity or she's so desperate for "a partnership" she's ignoring all the warning signs.

 

Or option 3:  really bad writing to plot.

[wonderwall]

Or option 3:  really bad writing to plot.

 

This. 

[TanyaKay]

Had it been anyone else, Felicity would have had his head for electrocuting Roy because she is protective of her friends but poor Roy was electrocuted and was left by both Mr Wonderful (Palmer) and Mr Surly (Oliver) and Felicity did not say anything?

What was THAT?

[HighHopes]

Had it been anyone else, Felicity would have had his head for electrocuting Roy because she is protective of her friends but poor Roy was electrocuted and was left by both Mr Wonderful (Palmer) and Mr Surly (Oliver) and Felicity did not say anything?

What was THAT?

MG said on Tumblr that "they fucked up" with Oliver leaving Roy after he was electrocuted. I'm taking the that to mean that they fucked up by not following up with what happened to Roy at all, not just with Oliver leaving him.