Felicity Smoak: Bitch With Wifi

[Guest]

As for Walter "asking her to," LOL, yeah, Walter asked her to look into Moira. More than a year prior to the episode in question. When he was her boss, which he no longer was in 2x13. It was no longer any of Felicity's business. If she simply forgot to unflag Moira's accounts and received the alert, she could have ignored it. Because, again, it was no longer any of Felicity's business. Or Walter's, quite frankly.

 

But it didn't stop there, did it? Because even if you want to chalk her initial actions up to Walter having asked her to keep an eye on Moira's accounts, his response to Felicity informing him of what came up was to tell her that he would handle it. And instead of just walking away at that point, she decided to probe further on her own.

 

Don't put it on Walter. Felicity did what Felicity wanted to do.

 

Felicity is not an idiot and she knows Moira is shady and so it's perfectly within her character to keep track of anything that looks suspicious. Frankly, it would be moronic if Felicity just ignored that kind of thing, particularly with the kind of business she's in with Oliver and Diggle. 

 

And we know Felicity doesn't like a mystery - she said herself she needs to solve them - which is why she went investigating by herself. Rather that than meek little IT girl who does what she's told. It showed she has initiative and a backbone and a strong sense of figuring out when something's not right. I'd say that makes her great at what she does. 

 

But the point is, OP was saying that the reason why Felicity was tracking Moira in the first place was because of Walter. That's not 'putting it on Walter.' That's just stating fact.

[statsgirl]

I was talking about a contingent of fans who word it not the way Guggenheim does, but as though they had absolutely never even considered the possibility of using Felicity more than once until EBR showed up, which is contradicted by EBR herself in her statements that the role was said to be possibly recurring when she auditioned for it.

Isn't that pretty standard though?  They hire an actor for one day's shooting, and they include in the contract that they can call you back if they decide that the role will be recurring. And by recurring, they probably meant like the police tech guy who was in 3 episodes before being killed by one of Slade's men at the end of s2.

 

MG said that when they shot 1x3, that was the only episode they had written Felicity to be in.

 

 

I mean, if we excuse one fictional character for being a fictional character whose decisions are dictated by their writers, it has to be done for every character all the time, doesn't it?

I'm not sure I understand this.  We learn about character's motivations to make them more interesting, and to make the show better overall.  When they are within character, we learn more about the character. When they are for plot purposes, that's another problem.  Knowing that Felicity was conflicted about whether to tell Oliver or not makes the show more interesting than if she just went to him and told him.  Would if have been better if Oliver hadn't wanted to protect Thea and just told her straight out?  Part of what makes Oliver's character interesting is the dumbass way he tries to protect people close to him, and part of what makes Felicity's character interesting is that she's afraid of so many things (e.g. heights) but she does pushes that down and does what she thinks she needs to do.

 

I disagree that it was no longer any of Felicity's business. Moira had been proved to be untrustworthy twice as far as Felicity was aware (with the Tempest account and later her role in the Undertaking), and Felicity rightfully didn't trust her.  Felicity's loyalty was to Oliver and his crusade and she did what she needed to so that Oliver had the information that he needed.

 

 

I will never understand the need to try to reduce Oliver to a self-absorbed dickbag who has no concern for anyone but himself and Felicity.

Felicity was doing what she could to find out Sara's whereabouts.  She also clearly had other things on her mind.  Oliver got upset because she wasn't listening to him when he was rabbiting on.

 

If Oliver had noticed that she had things on her mind, that would have been one thing.  But he only noticed because she wasn't listening to  him talk (and she didn't really need to since he wasn't saying anything helpful to the search) and that's what makes him "a self-absorbed dickbag".

Edited August 19, 2015 by statsgirl

[dtissagirl]

 

But it didn't stop there, did it? Because even if you want to chalk her initial actions up to Walter having asked her to keep an eye on Moira's accounts, his response to Felicity informing him of what came up was to tell her that he would handle it. And instead of just walking away at that point, she decided to probe further on her own.

 

Don't put it on Walter. Felicity did what Felicity wanted to do.

 

Fair point. The episode still goes out of its way to make it so that Felicity stumbled upon a secret she really didn't wanna know. But she couldn't go back to unknowing it, and then had to deal with the consequences of knowing it.

 

It feels a bit useless to be discussing whether she should have looked into it or not -- because she DID -- but I'm gonna try anyway.

 

Felicity wasn't specifically looking for Thea's paternity. You don't think it was any of her business to look into Moira's money transactions in the first place. I actually have no opinion on the morality of Felicity's actions there. Moira's super shady, and what Felicity found confirmed that once again. Otoh, Walter specifically told her to let it go, and she didn't. Disrespectful to Walter, sure. But I can't help it: the narrative had already decided that Felicity was gonna be the one find out about Thea's paternity. It's been established that Felicity hates mysteries and that she will go out of her way to solve them. I guess I'm good with Felicity being nosy?

 

I AM totally good with her being nosy. I relate so hard.

Edited August 19, 2015 by dtissagirl

[Morrigan2575]

GreatAtBoats, on 19 Aug 2015 - 4:43 PM, said:

I was talking about a contingent of fans who word it not the way Guggenheim does, but as though they had absolutely never even considered the possibility of using Felicity more than once until EBR showed up, which is contradicted by EBR herself in her statements that the role was said to be possibly recurring when she auditioned for it.

Gotta love how you omit the full quote

From EBR herself back in 2013

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=48820

News: Emily, there's a lot happening so far in the second season of "Arrow," but let's start by looking back. It was about this time last season that the character of Felicity was introduced into the show, and I've heard the producers talk about how they fell in love with your performance which led to you becoming a series regular. What was that growth like from your point of view?

Rickards' as Felicity Smoak in tonights episode of "Arrow?

Emily Bett Rickards: Looking back on it, it was just a whirlwind at first, and it's still a dream come true. It was episode three of Season 1 where I went and auditioned for the part. It was a "possibly recurring" role, but possible doesn't end up happening a whole lot -- or ever. [Laughs] So when I got a recurring role, I was really excited and just crying and happy. I got to keep coming back, and I cannot express to you how much I've been able to learn working on the show and growing with Felicity. I've never been able to grow with a character for this long -- across two seasons!

What's been so fun for me is that I never expected it. The word "regular" wasn't even in my vocabulary, so recurring more than two times was wild enough. I got to grow with the audience, so every time I stepped back on the set, I was stepping back on, not knowing what was coming next. It was really fun when I finally got to go the table read in episode eight of Season 1. It really has just been like a dream.

[apinknightmare]

I'm guessing Felicity purposely didn't unflag Moira's offshore account, because she herself said to Moira's face that she didn't trust her. And there's, uh, reason to not trust her considering she was part of a plan to destroy a very large part of the city (by using a machine that Felicity put herself in danger to help disarm, but whatever). It's not like she had Moira's personal accounts flagged - she had her super shady offshore account used for nefarious purposes flagged. But yeah, she should've just ignored it. Just like Felicity should've left Oliver to get shot and killed up on that bridge when he was fighting Ra's, LMAO.

Edited August 19, 2015 by apinknightmare

[calliope1975]

I guess I'm good with Felicity being nosy?

 

This is where I am. I like that Felicity wouldn't let it go even though Walter told her to. Was it any of her business? Nope. But Felicity's not perfect, and her inability to let things go gets her in trouble. That's why she wrestled with telling Oliver what she had found out. It might not have been her knowledge to know, but once she had it, as Oliver's friend/partner, I back her decision to tell him.

 

Keeping secrets never works out on dramas. That's TV 101. They always come out. Thea was always going to find out Malcolm was her father. People were always going to learn Oliver is the Arrow. It's why I was so angry at Laurel for keeping Sara's death from Quentin. He was going to find out. Tell him already.

[BkWurm1]

It was really fun when I finally got to go the table read in episode eight of Season 1. It really has just been like a dream.

 

So they had her doing table reads as of 1-8 Vendetta, (part two of when Oliver first is with Helena  and when Walter gives Felicity the "blank" notebook).  Sounds to me that if they had her coming in for table reads by the 8th episode that means they were already thinking of her as a regular before the show ever even aired.  I'd love to know for sure how many episodes they had in the can when the series started.  Just six episodes later she is in on Oliver's secret.  

[dtissagirl]

They were on day 2 of filming 109 the day the pilot aired. I'm really inclined to believe when the pilot aired, they had already decided that Felicity was gonna learn Oliver's secret and join the team. If they were filming 109, it means 110 was *written*, and 111-112 were almost certainly already broken. And the 112 Big Belly Burger scene is the one that sets up her joining the team in 114.

 

And it gels with asking EBR to start attending table readings thereabouts.

Edited August 19, 2015 by dtissagirl

[dtissagirl]

This is where I am. I like that Felicity wouldn't let it go even though Walter told her to. Was it any of her business? Nope. But Felicity's not perfect, and her inability to let things go gets her in trouble. That's why she wrestled with telling Oliver what she had found out. It might not have been her knowledge to know, but once she had it, as Oliver's friend/partner, I back her decision to tell him.

 

Yeah. I think her struggle with the secret had nothing to do with the morality of discovering that Moira was hiding Thea's true paternity. It had to do with the information itself, how it would affect Oliver, and how Felicity disclosing it could put her relationship with him at risk. Fear of him shooting the messenger, if you will.

 

And, you know, she's a professional Olympics hacker, I'm pretty sure the #1 requirement is minding other people's business.

[statsgirl]

108 was also the episode where Oliver is bemoaning the failure of his relationship with Helena and Diggle tells him that it's not about changing the person, it's about finding the right person to fit him now that he's opened his heart up.  And then it cuts to Felicity entering Walter's office.

 

That sounds like this was the episode they decided to try Oliver/Felicity for realz to see if it worked out.  (I say "if it worked out" because they had already been bitten by Lauriver failing.)

[apinknightmare]

I have zero issues with Felicity monitoring anything having to do with known criminals and/or conspirators, like Moira. If Oliver and co. all minded their own business, they wouldn't be able to effectively fight crime? Like...what's the issue here? She's keeping an eye on the known shady people, as she should.

[wonderwall]

If people are okay with Oliver putting Arrows in people and getting justice that way but call foul when Felicity tracks shady people with her computer (AKA shady people that are capable of doing dangerous things, so she's essentially monitoring them to keep the city safe just like how Oliver arrows people to keep the city safe), then the double standards are completely apparent.

 

In the end, would people even care if  Felicity was tracking someone other than Moira? I think because people liked Moira, that's why they have a problem with it. Felicity didn't know what Moira was capable of so she kept track. First it was at the request of Walter, but then she kept doing it because Moira WAS shady. And with Felicity being in the vigilante business and being a bloodhound when it comes to mysteries, it would've been irresponsible of her not to track Moira if she felt like there was something suspicious and possibly criminal going on. 

 

It's not like Felicity tracks EVERYONE. Just the people she deems are dangerous/ are shady. 

Edited August 20, 2015 by wonderwall

[AyChihuahua]

Felicity's nosiness has been a huge boon many times. For example, she hacked Iron Heights to keep an eye on their internal communications JUST IN CASE something happened with a prisoner. That allowed them to find out about Bronze Tiger getting out ASAP. In her line of work, nosiness is a strength, and Moira was an accessory to mass murder, had her own son kidnapped and tortured, which resulted in that poor ice cream guy getting killed, was an accessory to Walter being kidnapped and "interrogated" (which I'm sure Malcolm's minions did gently, right?). Ignoring her shady shenanigans would be idiotic. And once Felicity knew, she had to tell Oliver.

However, this is an argument that has come up several times, and is one of the reasons I really appreciate the ignore poster option on this site.

In the end, would people even care if  Felicity was tracking someone other than Moira? I think because people liked Moira, that's why they have a problem with it.

I think it's because some people just hate Felicity.

Edited August 19, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[dtissagirl]

I think the heart of the objection is the idea that it's not Felicity's place to look into Moira, or to tell Oliver about it, because she COULDN'T POSSIBLY belong to the part of the story that relates to Oliver's family.

 

Which: LOL NO.

[frenchtoast]

Please, folks, let's not talk about why other people feel about something, or why it's ridiculous that other people have different opinions about Felicity than you. Because people are allowed to not like the character or the actress. What isn't allowed is sniping at other posters. In short, don't take it personally when someone doesn't like and complains about Felicity.

 

Thanks.

[wingster55]

My issue with it has always been Felicity's hypocrisy (and Oliver's too actually). She wanted Moira to tell Oliver the truth...but didn't give a damn if Thea knew. That's actually pretty standard with Felicity..she didn't really care that Thea lived in s3 either. (Her "so" comment pissed me off) 

[apinknightmare]

What "so" comment are you talking about? 

 

Why would Felicity demand Moira tell Thea? Felicity didn't even know Thea. Felicity's concern wasn't the actual secret - it was how her knowing the secret, and it keeping it from Oliver (or it somehow getting out that she knew and didn't tell him) would affect her relationship with him.

Edited August 20, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Guest]

My issue with it has always been Felicity's hypocrisy (and Oliver's too actually). She wanted Moira to tell Oliver the truth...but didn't give a damn if Thea knew. That's actually pretty standard with Felicity..she didn't really care that Thea lived in s3 either. (Her "so" comment pissed me off) 

 

I don't really see that as hypocrisy. I see that as Felicity's loyalty being to Oliver, first and foremost. It would have made me uncomfortable if Felicity had told Thea the truth because she barely knew her at this point. But she knew Oliver, they're were friends and partners whose relationship was based on trust, and Felicity knowing that secret and not telling him would have betrayed that.

 

And Felicity not caring whether Thea lived in s3 is beyond me. I don't think that for one second. That makes her sound heartless and she's not at all. I'm pretty shocked anyone would believe that of anyone on the show.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Guest

[wonderwall]

I firmly believe that Oliver wouldn't be with Felicity right now if he knew that she'd let Thea die.

[AyChihuahua]

I firmly believe that Oliver wouldn't be with Felicity right now if he knew that she'd let Thea die.

It's not as if they made it unbelievably crystal clear in S3 that Oliver would do anything, ANYTHING, to save his sister. (For me he was obsessed with saving her to a pretty irritating degree.) I really don't see how he'd date Felicity after all that if he thought Felicity was all whatevs about Thea dying.

[wingster55]

Why didn't Felicity insist that Oliver tell Thea? It was so important to her that Oliver knew the truth of Thea's bio-father...but she never thought Thea herself should know? 

 

She wasn't totally ok with letting Thea stay dead...but if she truly had her way Thea would have stayed dead. 

[lemotomato]

She wasn't totally ok with letting Thea stay dead...but if she truly had her way Thea would have stayed dead.

Can you elaborate on why you think this way? I mean, she went to Ray to borrow his plane and apparently ran interference with the hospital so Thea could be brought to Nanda Parbat. Seems to me like she wanted to help Thea live. Edited August 20, 2015 by lemotomato

[AyChihuahua]

Even if Felicity did have reservations about using the LP on Thea, is that really such a sin? Thea's own father had major reservations about using the LP on her. Not to mention that Oliver was agreeing to become the head of a group of evil murderers (the current head of which was the whole reason they needed the LP for Thea) to get to use it. (As an aside, RAG stuck a sword through Thea. I really think that got kind of lost in the all the LP hoopla. I mean, THAT is the guy Oliver said a nice prayer over?)

[wingster55]

If there was another way to save Thea, Felicity would've taken it for sure. There wasn't and she wasn't willing to let Thea be LPed because it meant Oliver would be Ra's. She gave up in that regard because she still had plans to save Oliver. But ultimately, the point is that initially (before she let Oliver win the argument) she wasn't willing to let Thea live if it meant Oliver left them. She didn't seem to understand or respect that Oliver would do anything for her. 

 

And yes it is hypocritical. Oliver deserves the truth but Thea gets to stay in the dark? In fact she would have done the same about Roy if Thea hadn't mentioned it at the end of 3.21. 

[quarks]

And both discussions have left me convinced that there's a rather big gap between:

 

"Please don't go fight Ra's Al Ghul. I'm afraid you'll fall off a cliff and have to drink some questionable antibiotic tea,"

 

and

 

"Please don't put your sister into a hot tub owned by a group of crazy assassins with a serious candle fetish," 

 

and 

 

"I so want your sister dead."

[Chaser]

It was also heavily impilied that she (with the Diggles) were the ones looking out for Thea when they got back to Starling City.

I would say she cares a great deal for Thea, I would say the care is motivated by her feelings for Oliver. I'm hopefully Thea and Felicty will develope their own relationship in S4.

[kismet]

My issue with it has always been Felicity's hypocrisy (and Oliver's too actually). She wanted Moira to tell Oliver the truth...but didn't give a damn if Thea knew. That's actually pretty standard with Felicity..she didn't really care that Thea lived in s3 either. (Her "so" comment pissed me off) 

I agree with others that I don't see it as hypocrisy, its more loyalty to OQ & not knowing Thea. Demanding her or OQ to tell Thea would have been meddling and overstepping. I do think though that Felicity should have encouraged OQ to consider telling Thea.

 

What "so" comment are you talking about? I do not see any evidence that FS does not care about Thea. FS has gone out of her way on multiple occasions to help, save & rescue TQ. Does she care about OQ's happiness over TQ's? Probably but I think she also recognizes that TQ's happiness is part of OQ's happiness.

 

Why didn't Felicity insist that Oliver tell Thea? It was so important to her that Oliver knew the truth of Thea's bio-father...but she never thought Thea herself should know? 

 

She wasn't totally ok with letting Thea stay dead...but if she truly had her way Thea would have stayed dead. 

She probably didn't think it was her place to tell Thea. Cut her some slack, she approached both MQ & OQ about the importance of telling the truth. If they couldn't get the idea or inspiration to tell Thea themselves that isn't all on FS.

 

I work with a field where there are life & death situations. I have been part of situations very close to TQ's condition. There was no LoA or LP, but it was similar scenarios in all the important ways. Having to watch loved ones make that decision about letting someone go or trying that really dangerous unproven procedure. There isn't always a right answer. Everyone tries to weigh out pros/cons and try to balance their own personal needs with what they think the person would have wanted. There isn't always a clear easy decision to make. It is incredibly hard. I have seen many different people handle this situation very differently.

 

I don't think her answer was glib or insensitive. I also don't think she would have preferred TQ dead at any point in the series. I just think in that moment she was trying to analyze every side of the situation possible. Even MM was hesitant to use the LP, its not like everyone was immediately on board. And most importantly, she spent the rest of the episode trying to save both OQ & TQ. As well as the remainder of the season helping TQ adjust to life without OQ.

[wingster55]

I don't think she's callous, but I don't think she cares for her all that much really.

 

 It was also heavily impilied that she (with the Diggles) were the ones looking out for Thea when they got back to Starling City.

 

 

 

I think it was just Diggle actually. Felicity just happened to be there.

As for "multiple" times...it was just once. 

Edited August 20, 2015 by wingster55

[Guest]

Felicity went over to Thea's loft in 321 to tell her about Roy. She specifically said that they were going to tell her but she was mostly dead and then everything happened and then she pulls out Roy's address from her coat pocket. I don't think Felicity would just walk around with a piece of paper with Roy's address on if she was going to keep Thea in the dark. 

 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGHJpFL7Izw

Edited August 20, 2015 by Guest

[Chaser]

By that logic, Laurel must hate Thea. I'm assuming Felicity told Laurel everything and yet Laurel wasn't by Thea's side after she came back from the dead and lost her brother.

That was Felicity and Lyla and Diggle.

[apinknightmare]

Plus, she never said she they weren't going to let him save Thea, she said they weren't going to let him join the League of Assassins, even if it was to save Thea. That's not the same thing as not wanting to save her. Didn't she basically follow through with that sentiment when she drugged Oliver to get him out of there after Thea had been revived? 

[Guest]

It was two weeks in between 3x20 and 3x21. 

 

Yeah, two weeks off screen. They wanted to speed up the time between 320 and 321 so the idea of Oliver being brainwashed was believable. But they also wanted to show on screen Thea and Felicity talking and having a moment where Thea finds out Roy is still alive. For Felicity to tell Thea straight away, one of those wouldn't have happened.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Guest

[frenchtoast]

There have been some posts hidden that were ignoring the mod note from just a few hours ago. People are allowed to see a scene differently and they are not required to persuade anyone to that opinion. Being sarcastic and snide to posters is entering Being a Dick territory, which is the main guideline here. If you don't see a character/scene/episode etc the same way, the correct way to phrase it is "I didn't see it like that, I felt that she was acting like that because..." Not, "What are you watching? How can you say that?" It's dismissive and it's dickish and it needs to stop.

 

If it was discussed before, talking about that discussion? Is off topic. This topic is about Felicity. Not previous PTV discussions. Also, it smacked of self congratulation and that is kind of being a dick, too.

 

There were too many posts to go through and PM each individually to correct. Please be sure to read mod notes and post according to PTV guidelines. 

[statsgirl]

If there was another way to save Thea, Felicity would've taken it for sure.

[snip]

And yes it is hypocritical. Oliver deserves the truth but Thea gets to stay in the dark? In fact she would have done the same about Roy if Thea hadn't mentioned it at the end of 3.21. 

If there was another way to save Thea, Oliver would have taken it for sure. And both Diggle and Malcolm were against the LP and joining the LoA too.

 

In s2 when Felicity found out about Thea's paternity, she barely knew Thea.  (Which was reciprocated because more than a year later, Thea had no idea Oliver and Felicity were a thing.  I guess Roy talked about other things around her.)

 

When Felicity barely knew Thea, it really wasn't her place to tell Thea such a big secret about her life.  Felicity didn't trust Moira so she left it in Oliver's hands to tell Thea.  That Oliver was being an idiot again wasn't Felicity's fault.

 

By late season 3, when she knew Thea a lot better, after Oliver was lost to them Felicity went to Thea's loft to tell her that Roy was still alive even though that was supposed to be a secret too.  As Angel2d said, Felicity had Roy's address written out for Thea when she went to talk to her and she would have had to do some digging and pinging to get that.  Diggle also knew that Roy was alive but he wasn't telling Thea.

 

Yes, it was three weeks between 320 and 321 but it was also the next episode of the show.  We could either have heard Thea tell the audience that Felicity had given her the paper with Roy's address, in which case she would also have to justify why she was still waiting 3 weeks later to do something about it, or we could see the scene between them play out in which case it had to be 3 weeks later.

 

Given that Thea didn't even know that Oliver loved Felicity and that she had feelings for him too, I'd say that even in 3x20 the two women weren't that close. (Laurel was the one who knew Thea for a long time.)  Felicity cared about Thea as Oliver's younger sister but she couldn't really love Thea for herself since she didn't know her.  And in spite of what's in fanfic, Thea didn'tk now Felicity at all except as her brother's former EA and something of a friend of his.

 

Sara was the only female friend Felicity had until Caitlin.

[wingster55]

If there was another way to save Thea, Oliver would have taken it for sure. And both Diggle and Malcolm were against the LP and joining the LoA too.

In s2 when Felicity found out about Thea's paternity, she barely knew Thea.  (Which was reciprocated because more than a year later, Thea had no idea Oliver and Felicity were a thing.  I guess Roy talked about other things around her.)

 

Yes, they were all dicks in their behavior toward her at one point or another (like literally every character on the show imo...well except for Tommy maybe) But this is the Felicity thread. 

Oh, and Sara too. 

 

in which case she would also have to justify why she was still waiting 3 weeks later to do something about it

 

Recovering, fear etc. 

 

Sara was the only female friend Felicity had until Caitlin.

 

and Iris. But really I'd say that Sara and Felicity weren't friends. Friendly and had one bonding moment..but mostly it wasn't really there. In "Sara" Felicity spoke of her as someone she revered and looked up to..but not a friend. 

[HighHopes]

Felicity was shown to care about Thea in season two as well. There was Felicity's speech about how Oliver should "go save Thea, do whatever it takes". In fact if I remember correctly she was the only one who spoke up in favour of Oliver going after Slade to save Thea while everyone else (Diggle, Roy, Sara, and possibly Laurel? I can't actually remember who all was in that scene) were firmly against it.

Felicity is a caring person, she grieved for Oliver when Moira died even though in her own words she didn't even like Moira, so to suggest anything else goes against what canon has shown us.

(That's not to say that she wouldn't want Malcolm dead.. When the situation calls for it she is okay with someone [who is evil] being harmed, which I think makes her a really interesting character).

Edited August 20, 2015 by HighHopes

[statsgirl]

 

and Iris. But really I'd say that Sara and Felicity weren't friends.

I think we're going to have to do that agree-to-disagree about Felicity and Sara.  From Sara's first appearance in the lair, Felicity tried to make her feel comfortable and accepted. Sara helped Felicity try to train, they had girl conversations, Felicity opened up about her life.  In "Sara", Felicity did talk abut how she was impressed by Sara's strength but she also kind of fell apart about her loss later. She also prepared Sara's body for burial, which is an important thing in the Jewish faith. 

 

We've seen Felicity and Caitlin talking to each other on the phone, and Caitlin and Cisco came to visit.  Felicity has asked Caitlin for favors that Caitlin has helped with.  They're two very intelligent science nerds who share a number of things in common, none the least being keeping their superheroes functioning.

 

to quote Laura Hurley:

 

Fiction far too often fails to recognize that there is a difference between organic female friendship and obligatory female friendship. Manufacturing a bond between two characters just because they both happen to be women and their friendship would tick off a politically correct box is so much more objectionable than a dearth of female friendships. As a woman, I will be disheartened by a lack of comradery between women on television, but I won’t be offended. Watching women thrown together and presented to me as bosom bodies with no real buildup just because does offend me.

Iris is a nice person and if you ask Felicity, she'll say she likes her but for Felicity, Iris is Barry's friend and the woman he's in love with, more than being a particular friend of Fellicity's.  She knew Caitlin from season 2 but she only met Iris in s3 and all her connections to Iris have been through Barry.

[EmilyBettFan]

Yeah ok Felicity doesn't care about Thea at all but, when she didn't even know her that well, Felicity scanned through many photos to find her and help her get back home from Slade.

[kismet]

I believe that Sara & Felicity were friends, it just never made it to film or hit the cutting room floor. The scripts are limited & they tend to cut out character moments. They also seem to cut moments that are more connected to the female characters. Sadly, ARROW does not always score well on the Bechdel Test.

 

Every interaction between Sara & Felicity had genuine friendship vibe to it. Its also reasonable to believe that with so many nights together in the Arrowcave they at least became very friendly. They might not be besties, but honestly it didn't seem like SL was a girl that had besties in her current life. She had loved ones & she kept at distances to protect them, just like Oliver did.

 

Sadly, as much as I want to see more of the friendly banter & chatter, with all friends bonding, Arrow is not that kinda show. Its a action drama not a sitcom. So if people are appearing to be good friends, at some point I have to accept that it happened off screen. Sara & FS became friends off screen. The only reason we see Caitlin & FS's friendship is purely for crossover purposes. If Caitlin was on Arrow full time, i doubt we would see her & FS interact much as just friends. Thea & FS, I'm not sure they ever truly met until s3. They were in shared spaces & events together, but they were never really in the same social circle. There was never any in-script or intra-acting hints that indicated they were even acquaintances. Everything FS did for TQ for 3 seasons came out of her relationship with OQ, but that doesn't mean she never cared about TQ. They just never had opportunity to meet.

[wingster55]

For 3 seasons? She didn't do anything until late s2 under the most dire of circumstances (same with s3). That's the problem...she doesn't really care for Thea on a human level. Like she doesn't have to be close or even friends to see her as more than Oliver's sister. 

 

As for Iris...it's actually the most normal friendship as they met without being bonded by the mission, they met via mutual friend..and hit it off. 

[wonderwall]

So basically what I'm getting from this conversation is that you think Felicity doesn't care for Thea at all and wants her dead and only sees Thea as Oliver's sister and  not as a person? This is just for my knowledge. Because we've never seen them interact (only once or twice) and those are some harsh feelings for one to have towards another person without ever meeting them. You really think that low of Felicity? Because I feel like that isn't really justified considering we never really got to see them interact during a normal situation where Oliver wasn't dead or trading his life for Thea. 

[HighHopes]

For 3 seasons? She didn't do anything until late s2 under the most dire of circumstances (same with s3). That's the problem...she doesn't really care for Thea on a human level. Like she doesn't have to be close or even friends to see her as more than Oliver's sister. 

 

I again am struggling to see how Felicity doesn't care about Thea, when in season two she was the one for Oliver going after Slade to save Thea. She spent hours looking through security footage to see if she could find Thea. She was the one who told Roy in s3 to tell Oliver where Thea actually was. If you have anything to say otherwise (besides Felicity not trusting the pit, because I'm pretty sure any sane person would be against a magical healing hot tub) please link me to the scenes or mention them? 

 

The show didn't give Felicity a chance to care about Thea prior to late season two. They never interacted and Thea barely knew that Felicity existed. How was Felicity supposed to be shown caring about a person without the show giving her a reason to? The show barely lets the characters talk about their own lives and how they are feeling, let alone worry and talk about someone else. 

 

You are free to like and dislike whatever character you wish to, but Felicity has been shown to care about Thea when the show lets her. It isn't Felicity's fault that Felicity and Thea haven't interacted. It's the writers fault. Hate the writers for not giving more attention to that relationship. 

 

The female characters on this show barely interacted with each other until season three. I don't even know if the three series regular females have even had a conversation? So it's a bigger issue than the show apparently not showing Felicity caring about Thea. 

Edited August 21, 2015 by HighHopes

[wonderwall]

A list of things Felicity has done over the past 3 seasons: 

 

Season 1:

• Gave Oliver the information he needed to complete his mission
• Helped save Oliver after he got shot
  Felicity went into the casino to get information to help save Walter
• Went into Merlyn Global to get information regarding the Undertaking
• Stayed inside Verdant during the Undertaking because she needed to help Oliver and Diggle
• In 201 Felicity helped Oliver by clubbing one of the hoods that attacked QC thereby saving his life and helped bring him back from the island

Season 2:

• Volunteered herself as bait in order to catch the dollmaker
• Risked her life in Russia to help Diggle get Lyla back
• Tried to get information on The Count so the team could take him down
• Felicity risked her life to defeat the Clock King
• Saved Sara by taking a bullet for her
• Figured helped track Thea down when she was kidnapped
• Came up with the plan to destroy the applied sciences division to stop Slade from using their tech
• Tried to get the mirakuru cure with the others in Streets of Fire
• Ran over Isabel and saved Diggle
• Puts herself in danger to help defeat Slade

Season 3:

• Saved the city from Cooper unleashing her virus even though he threatened her and had a gun to her head
• Risked her life to help take down the meta human in Starling
• Took down Brie Larvan by outwitting her thus, saving Barry
• She sacrificed her career just so she could keep up with Team Arrow. First she got ‘promoted’ to being Oliver’s Secretary, then in the comics it was shown that she was fired from Kord Industries because she took a lot of sick days.
• She figured out the location of the viruses Ra's planted
• Tried to save Oliver from Nanda Parbat
• Saved Lyla from the Boomerang and save Lyla from Al Saheem
• She made Team Flash help save Barry from Captain Cold in 1x04 of The Flash
• She brought back Team Arrow when they were about to disband after Oliver died
• Helped make the ATOM suit with Ray (which never would've been functional without Felicity)
• She helped get Roy out of prison which saved Oliver
• Helped mobilize the police force in the finale
• Saved Oliver in the finale

 

ETA: Thanks @smallscreendiva for explaining what @wingster meant! I got confused with the wording of it. I now know he just meant in regards to Thea. Which is understandable considering they didn't interact until late S3. 

Edited August 21, 2015 by wonderwall

[wingster55]

wants her dead

 

I think that's a radical interpretation of the text. I said that Felicity didn't really think much of Oliver's plan to save her. There weren't other ways (well other than Barry going back in time), but she felt that, THAT way wasn't worth it. So no she didn't want Thea dead...but she wasn't willing her to be resurrected/healed if it meant Olver would be Ra's. Ergo...in that scenario Thea staying dead would be the regrettable choice she would make. 

 

To say that she's been useless and did nothing till late season 2 is just a blatant lie tbh

 

I'm sorry...who said she was useless? I certainly never used that adjective. 

Edited August 21, 2015 by wingster55

[HighHopes]

I think that's a radical interpretation of the text. I said that Felicity didn't really think much of Oliver's plan to save her. There weren't other ways (well other than Barry going back in time), but she felt that, THAT way wasn't worth it. So no she didn't want Thea dead...but she wasn't willing her to be resurrected/healed if it meant Olver would be Ra's. Ergo...in that scenario Thea staying dead would be the regrettable choice she would make. 

 

Felicity's choices were support his plan and save his sister and never see the man she loves again because he's would go evil and becomes the head of a league of assassins, or not support it and his sister unfortunately stays dead but the guy who she loves who is also saving the city doesn't become the next demon's head. It's a catch 22, damned if she does and damned if she doesn't. What was she supposed to do? She wanted to look for another  way, a way that involved saving The and Oliver. 

 

She wanted Thea resurrected and healed, but she [correctly] knew that there would be giant and severe consequences to it. Bringing someone back from the dead by using magical waters (which until then, she had no idea existed) should involve a lot more thought and consideration than what Oliver put into it. That was the point Felicity was trying to make, like she has done before. That Oliver should find another way, that there had to be another option. 

Edited August 21, 2015 by HighHopes

[wonderwall]

I think that's a radical interpretation of the text. I said that Felicity didn't really think much of Oliver's plan to save her. There weren't other ways (well other than Barry going back in time), but she felt that, THAT way wasn't worth it. So no she didn't want Thea dead...but she wasn't willing her to be resurrected/healed if it meant Olver would be Ra's. Ergo...in that scenario Thea staying dead would be the regrettable choice she would make. 

Apologies for the radical interpretation.

 

I don't think that's wrong? I like Thea a lot, but you have to see it from Felicity's POV. Because Oliver's plan was so ridiculous that even Malcolm OR Diggle weren't on board with it. Because even if she survived through the pit, would Thea be suffering? Would Thea change? What would happen to her psychologically? There were too many variables and keeping Oliver alive was better than letting both of them die. There was just too much at risk for a plan that probably would backfire. That's why it didn't bother me.

 

Try looking at it from Felicity's POV. Forget about how much you love Thea. Because to Felicity Thea IS just Oliver's sister because they don't know each other. They've barely interacted at that point. And weighing the benefits vs. potential costs? Obviously the potential costs outweighed the benefits because magic to Felicity is probably ridiculous and she probably didn't think it'd work. And Diggle understood that too. 

Edited August 21, 2015 by wonderwall

[SmallScreenDiva]

A list of things Felicity has done over the past 3 seasons: 

 

Season 1:

• Gave Oliver the information he needed to complete his mission
• Helped save Oliver after he got shot

  Felicity went into the casino to get information to help save Walter

• Went into Merlyn Global to get information regarding the Undertaking
• Stayed inside Verdant during the Undertaking because she needed to help Oliver and Diggle
• In 201 Felicity helped Oliver by clubbing one of the hoods that attacked QC thereby saving his life and helped bring him back from the island

Season 2:

• Volunteered herself as bait in order to catch the dollmaker
• Risked her life in Russia to help Diggle get Lyla back
• Tried to get information on The Count so the team could take him down
• Felicity risked her life to defeat the Clock King
• Saved Sara by taking a bullet for her
• Figured helped track Thea down when she was kidnapped
• Came up with the plan to destroy the applied sciences division to stop Slade from using their tech
• Tried to get the mirakuru cure with the others in Streets of Fire
• Ran over Isabel and saved Diggle
• Puts herself in danger to help defeat Slade

Season 3:

• Saved the city from Cooper unleashing her virus even though he threatened her and had a gun to her head
• Risked her life to help take down the meta human in Starling
• Took down Brie Larvan by outwitting her thus, saving Barry
• She sacrificed her career just so she could keep up with Team Arrow. First she got ‘promoted’ to being Oliver’s Secretary, then in the comics it was shown that she was fired from Kord Industries because she took a lot of sick days.
• She figured out the location of the viruses Ra's planted
• Tried to save Oliver from Nanda Parbat
• Saved Lyla from the Boomerang and save Lyla from Al Saheem
• She made Team Flash help save Barry from Captain Cold in 1x04 of The Flash
• She brought back Team Arrow when they were about to disband after Oliver died
• Helped make the ATOM suit with Ray (which never would've been functional without Felicity)
• She helped get Roy out of prison which saved Oliver
• Helped mobilize the police force in the finale
• Saved Oliver in the finale

 

To say that she's been useless and did nothing till late season 2 is just a blatant lie tbh

 

wonderwall, I believe wingster55 is talking about what Felicity has done for Thea, not what Felicity has done in general. Still, I'll never let pass the opportunity to highlight what Felicity has done on the show so I'll add that before she even formally joined Team Arrow, Felicity had:

• Retrieved information from Deadshot's laptop that led to the discovery of the plan to kill Unidac bidders
• Provided Oliver with information about the father of the family of bank robbers
• Figured out Digg's friend was using classified routes to rob armored cars
• Realized the people the copycat vigilante was killing were on the list/book provided by Walter

 

For 3 seasons? She didn't do anything until late s2 under the most dire of circumstances (same with s3). That's the problem...she doesn't really care for Thea on a human level. Like she doesn't have to be close or even friends to see her as more than Oliver's sister. 

 

As for Iris...it's actually the most normal friendship as they met without being bonded by the mission, they met via mutual friend..and hit it off. 

 

wingster55, I'm still not quite sure what you mean by saying Felicity "doesn't really care for Thea on a human level." Felicity had not been allowed by the show to have any interactions with Thea really until late Season 3. So for Felicity, Thea is basically "just" Oliver's sister, meaning she personally didn't have a relationship with her. I don't see any problem with that. Because even if Felicity's concern for Thea only stems from being the sister of a friend she really cares about, that's fine. That's normal, actually. The interesting thing, for me anyway, is that despite not interacting at all for most of 3 seasons, I did really buy the developing friendship and growing affection between the two in those few scenes in Arrow 3x21. Maybe its EBR and WH's real-life friendsip seeping in, I don't know. But I thought a solid bond was definitely forming between the two beyond being the two most important ladies in Oliver's life. I really enjoyed the teasing when Felicity said she turned out "normal" and Thea teased her by adding "ish." There was also a certain level of comfort between them as they fed little Sara. And later when Thea was offering to suit up and help out Diggle and Felicity, there was a familiarity there already. These are little things but I think the show has established a caring, affectionate relationship between those two. I'm so excited to see what the show is going to do with their dynamic in Season 4. 

Edited August 21, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva

[wonderwall]

What I loved about Thea/Felicity in S3 was that they didn't just make them instant friends or confidantes. I hope Felicity and Thea both earn a solid relationship in S4 and not just out of obligation because of Oliver, but because they enjoy each other. This IMO is something they failed with Laurel and Felicity's relationship so I hope they take Thea/Felicity's relationship a bit more slowly

[wingster55]

I think she could care for Thea on a human level regardless of never interacting with her. 

In s1 Diggle hadn't either but he knew that Thea needed Oliver following her arrest. That's caring for her on a human level. 

 

As for Malcolm and Diggle...the latter did have some objections about the whole thing but was more silent. Malcolm was purely objecting on Thea's behalf. Not giving a damn about Oliver. Felicity wasn't considering the ramifications it would have on Thea IIRC. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

I think she could care for Thea on a human level regardless of never interacting with her. 

In s1 Diggle hadn't either but he knew that Thea needed Oliver following her arrest. That's caring for her on a human level. 

 

As for Malcolm and Diggle...the latter did have some objections about the whole thing but was more silent. Malcolm was purely objecting on Thea's behalf. Not giving a damn about Oliver. Felicity wasn't considering the ramifications it would have on Thea IIRC. 

 

I'm still not entirely sure why you think what Felicity has done for Thea — such as eyeballing thousands of photos just to find her — is not considered caring for her on a human level. She went through thousands of photos, didn't use an algorithm or somesuch, she actually looked at every single photo to determine if it contained a clue that could lead to her recovery. At least, that's what I got from that very short scene when Diggle rather incredulously asked her about what she'd done and Felicity simply answered, "It's Thea." Actually, those two words say a lot. Felicity didn't say she did it for Oliver. She said "It's Thea" meaning she considered Thea as a separate entity, no longer attached to Oliver's identity. So I'm revising my take on this. Despite no interactions, Felicity actually saw Thea as a person and did care for her on a human level based on that short scene (I know we complain a lot about Arrow writers, but sometimes damn if they don't impress me).