Little House On The Prairie - General Discussion

[debraran]

I started to re watch some episodes during quarantine, the plague was pretty much what we do now, separate people, keep distance, pray and hope most recover. We come a long way with medicine and procedures, but sometimes we have to do basic good sense.

I liked the early years of the show but watching with my daughter, she remarked how now she sees how obsessed Michael was with fire, two tried to commit suicide that way or died in it, Mary started one by accident. I guess it was a good special effect that wasn't hard to use.

I always wondered why Jonathan Gilbert dropped out of sight. I liked him and thought he could have acted more if he wanted too. I felt there was some kind of abuse with his family from little things the star playing Nels said. His mom was much nicer to his sister Melissa and the second he could leave, he did. All the "stockbroker" stories aren't real, there are just a lot of people with the same name. : )

I remember when my kids were small, they loved the Xmas episodes and when they were 4 or 5, I bought them from a website, a tin cup from there that came with a penny and peppermint stick. They loved it and kept the cup for years.  Ah, maybe not the simplest life then but I tried to recreate the feelings the show evoked.

Edited April 29, 2020 by debraran

[CountryGirl]

The earlier seasons were definitely superior. One of my favorites is "Country Girls," which is where I got my username. 

It was so true to those moments from On The Banks of Plum Creek. I truly don't understand why ML didn't stick more closely to the books - there were 8 of them (minus Farmer Boy) and it could have been a season/book, give or take. 

The books have held up very well, with some obvious problematic but representative of "that time in history moments" such as the depiction of Native Americans and Ma's hatred of them or Pa and his buddies in blackface. But they present opportunities for learning and discussion. In reading through some books about the show and watching videos on YT, I learned that one of the EPs wanted to stay as true as possible to the book but ML didn't think it would work.

Apparently, he thought storylines about Carrie imagining that she had a twin sister and they feasted on giant strawberries or a clown raping Sylvia would work. 

I'm sure a remake won't ever happen because it's ML, duh, and I do appreciate him helping to create a new audience and fans of LIW and her books, but so much wasted opportunity, especially with The Long Winter - the scenes with the blizzards would be far more harrowing than the one where Miss Beadle kills the kids - especially the time where Almanzo and Cap raced against time and the weather to bring back the seed wheat for a starving town. 

Similarly, with Little Town on the Prairie, we have Laura working in town, Nellie's return, the animosity between Laura and lazy, lousy Liza Jane (with the "I'll rock that seat, Ms. Wilder!", Mary's going off to college, Laura and Ida's recitation of history and Almanzo asking to see her home. And all kinds of goodness in These Happy Golden Years that don't start out so happy with Laura's first teaching job and her horrible boarding experience but then we have her slowly falling in love with Almanzo (vs her chasing after him). 

Le sigh...

 

[debraran]

7 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

The earlier seasons were definitely superior. One of my favorites is "Country Girls," which is where I got my username. 

It was so true to those moments from On The Banks of Plum Creek. I truly don't understand why ML didn't stick more closely to the books - there were 8 of them (minus Farmer Boy) and it could have been a season/book, give or take. 

The books have held up very well, with some obvious problematic but representative of "that time in history moments" such as the depiction of Native Americans and Ma's hatred of them or Pa and his buddies in blackface. But they present opportunities for learning and discussion. In reading through some books about the show and watching videos on YT, I learned that one of the EPs wanted to stay as true as possible to the book but ML didn't think it would work.

Apparently, he thought storylines about Carrie imagining that she had a twin sister and they feasted on giant strawberries or a clown raping Sylvia would work. 

I'm sure a remake won't ever happen because it's ML, duh, and I do appreciate him helping to create a new audience and fans of LIW and her books, but so much wasted opportunity, especially with The Long Winter - the scenes with the blizzards would be far more harrowing than the one where Miss Beadle kills the kids - especially the time where Almanzo and Cap raced against time and the weather to bring back the seed wheat for a starving town. 

Similarly, with Little Town on the Prairie, we have Laura working in town, Nellie's return, the animosity between Laura and lazy, lousy Liza Jane (with the "I'll rock that seat, Ms. Wilder!", Mary's going off to college, Laura and Ida's recitation of history and Almanzo asking to see her home. And all kinds of goodness in These Happy Golden Years that don't start out so happy with Laura's first teaching job and her horrible boarding experience but then we have her slowly falling in love with Almanzo (vs her chasing after him). 

Le sigh...

 

In retrospect he could have done a lot differently in the end, the constant adding of kids, especially toward the end, was crazy. James and his being shot, the alter, the angels appearing. lol  I liked Ernest Borgnine episodes but my favorite that I thought they did well, was Mary going blind,she was good, the denial, the acceptance, her feelings, etc. Later, getting married, the baby, Adam getting sight back, was a bit much but I thought they handled that earlier plot well.

Because we see them now all at once, and then they were far apart, seeing repeated costars playing different roles is more glaring, even plot disparities. One of the smaller ones I just saw was when Caroline was pregnant with Grace, she first thought she was starting menopause, she seemed shocked to be pregnant, but then years later when Laura was pregnant, she was upset, a bit crazy, lying about having a baby etc., thinking she was old. Why she was resigned then and not later seemed odd.

I thought Karen was not used well in the beginning and liked when she had more meat to her roles. I loved the handyman episodes, Gil Gerard was so handsome. ; )

Edited April 29, 2020 by debraran

[CountryGirl]

The Mary going blind episodes were very well-done, but I absolutely hated the two-parter where Mary's son, Adam Jr., and Mrs. "Them's Snails" Alice Garvey died.

There is no way a mother, blind or not, would have walked away from her child, knowing the house was on fire. 

It didn't help that Alice looked like she was using AJ to break the window to escape (aka as Baby Battering Ram on TWP).

[methodwriter85]

4 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

The earlier seasons were definitely superior. One of my favorites is "Country Girls," which is where I got my username. 

It was so true to those moments from On The Banks of Plum Creek. I truly don't understand why ML didn't stick more closely to the books - there were 8 of them (minus Farmer Boy) and it could have been a season/book, give or take. 

The books have held up very well, with some obvious problematic but representative of "that time in history moments" such as the depiction of Native Americans and Ma's hatred of them or Pa and his buddies in blackface. But they present opportunities for learning and discussion. In reading through some books about the show and watching videos on YT, I learned that one of the EPs wanted to stay as true as possible to the book but ML didn't think it would work.

Apparently, he thought storylines about Carrie imagining that she had a twin sister and they feasted on giant strawberries or a clown raping Sylvia would work. 

I'm sure a remake won't ever happen because it's ML, duh

ABC attempted a remake in 2005 with a t.v. movie that basically acted as the pilot.The ratings weren't good enough to commission a series. I liked it though I thought the Half Pint was trying waaaaayy too hard to be Melissa Gilbert. Cameron Bancroft made a wonderful Pa, though. At this point though I can't see a remake happening because westerns aren't popular and Twitter "woke" culture would probably slam the Ingalls as evil colonizers.

[CountryGirl]

I vaguely remember that one. I really liked the actor who played Pa, but ITA that the girl playing Laura was trying to out-Half Pint MG. 

I also happened to catch on YT some other miniseries where John Boy, I mean, Richard Thomas, was playing Pa. There some similarities to the books, namely they had some animosity with Laura and Eliza Jane, Cap and Almanzo going after the wheat, as well as the woman with whom Laura boarded constantly complaining about her (though no knife scene). 

But Laura being blonde, Mary and Ma being redheads, and Laura finding a letter for Almanzo on his claim and being immediately in wuv made me roll my eyes so hard. The worst was after they were married (which they didn't even show!), Laura and Almanzo consummated their marriage right there on the prairie in the light of day.  

[debraran]

This never came to be?

https://variety.com/2016/film/news/little-house-on-the-prairie-movie-paramount-1201689053/

 

[methodwriter85]

I really think it's the fact that westerns just don't track with current audiences. Hell, the Magnificent 7 remake that came out in 2016 was pretty good and it had some pretty decent starpower behind it and they just barely recouped their production budget. The success of the Hatfields and MCcoys miniseries in 2012 didn't spark a new era of successful westerns like I thought it would. I think the closest we're getting to that is When Calls the Heart on Hallmark.

[Luckylyn]

9 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

The Mary going blind episodes were very well-done, but I absolutely hated the two-parter where Mary's son, Adam Jr., and Mrs. "Them's Snails" Alice Garvey died.

There is no way a mother, blind or not, would have walked away from her child, knowing the house was on fire. 

It didn't help that Alice looked like she was using AJ to break the window to escape (aka as Baby Battering Ram on TWP).

I’m having flashbacks to TWOP referring to that episode as “May We Bake Them Brown” instead of “May We Make Them Proud.” 

What really bugged me was the way the show forgot about the baby so fast.   It bothered me that Caroline was teasing Charles about becoming a Grandpa in the episode when Laura and Almanzo get together when their grandchild just died.

[debraran]

Re the movie that was dropped, I was just surprised because no news I could google, said why the second person who took the project dropped it. Money, interest? Was the first budget that high because of the stars? It's not a special effect type of movie.

I watched a favorite yesterday while decompressing from the news. It's when they decide to leave the city and come home, everything is overgrown and dirty but they are so happy and clean half the show. (made me get in the mood to clean my kitchen) I suspended reality on how they would have anything to eat but fish, chicken and cow etc now gone but they seemed to have milk and the like. Laura started to snore, something we never heard of before, but hey, maybe her sinus's were bothering her. How Doc Baker survived without a store or money coming in, who cares, he was taking care of Mr Hansen and looked clean and spiffy in his suit. 😉 I think the town pulling together makes me happy, when my neighborhood or city does that for someone or a charity, it makes me see the good in people and nowadays it's harder at times to see that.

Wisdom of Solomon show with Todd Bridges still makes me cry, I can't get by the ending without crying. Other shows where he wanted you to cry, I didn't, but that one was so well done for the time.  Best quote when Charles tells him things had changed, are changing.

"

Solomon Henry: You answer me something, Sir. Would you like to live to be a hundred?

Charles Ingalls: I'm sure. It's not very likely, but I guess all of us want to live to be a right-old age.

Solomon Henry: Would you rather be black and live to be a hundred, or white and live to be fifty?

 

[VCRTracking]

On 4/30/2020 at 3:49 AM, debraran said:

Re the movie that was dropped, I was just surprised because no news I could google, said why the second person who took the project dropped it. Money, interest? Was the first budget that high because of the stars? It's not a special effect type of movie.

I watched a favorite yesterday while decompressing from the news. It's when they decide to leave the city and come home, everything is overgrown and dirty but they are so happy and clean half the show. (made me get in the mood to clean my kitchen) I suspended reality on how they would have anything to eat but fish, chicken and cow etc now gone but they seemed to have milk and the like. Laura started to snore, something we never heard of before, but hey, maybe her sinus's were bothering her. How Doc Baker survived without a store or money coming in, who cares, he was taking care of Mr Hansen and looked clean and spiffy in his suit. 😉 I think the town pulling together makes me happy, when my to or city does that for someone or a charity, it makes me see the good in people and nowadays it's harder at times to see that.

Wisdom of Solomon show with Todd Bridges still makes me cry, I can't get by the ending without crying. Other shows where he wanted you to cry, I didn't, but that one was so well done for the time.  Best quote when Charles tells him things had changed, are changing.

"

Solomon Henry: You answer me something, Sir. Would you like to live to be a hundred?

Charles Ingalls: I'm sure. It's not very likely, but I guess all of us want to live to be a right-old age.

Solomon Henry: Would you rather be black and live to be a hundred, or white and live to be fifty?

 

"Todd Bridges" is trending on Twitter and it's apparently because someone watched the episode for the first time!

https://twitter.com/JustInNotOut/status/1256708410147434496?s=19

ETA: Now "Michael Landon" and "Little House" are trending!

 

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by VCRTracking

[PSG]

Quote

The books have held up very well, with some obvious problematic but representative of "that time in history moments" such as the depiction of Native Americans and Ma's hatred of them or Pa and his buddies in blackface. But they present opportunities for learning and discussion. 

I found and acquired a full boxed set of vintage Little House books, and have re-read them all during this stay-at-home time. It's been a delight! Yes, some of the content is really jarring to my 2020 mind, but still, there is a ton of fascinating detail in those books. Also, I can't say enough about Garth Williams' illustrations. They are lovely and evocative. 

[debraran]

16 hours ago, PSG said:

I found and acquired a full boxed set of vintage Little House books, and have re-read them all during this stay-at-home time. It's been a delight! Yes, some of the content is really jarring to my 2020 mind, but still, there is a ton of fascinating detail in those books. Also, I can't say enough about Garth Williams' illustrations. They are lovely and evocative. 

Yes, I read the books and those references seemed odd to me as a child but I figured people weren't very aware back then.  My daughter mentioned something about the "Ingall's" on TV being more liberal than in the books but I told her that was because he wanted to make it easier to watch and that good people always existed and Michael Landon was teaching how to act more than doing a strict biography. There were always the "Larabees" or some bigoted family to even things out.   I remember reading The Long Winter a few times, so fascinated on how hard it was and made me complain less if we just lost electricity, I wasn't twisting hay into twigs!

Edited May 5, 2020 by debraran

[absolutelyido]

On 4/29/2020 at 10:40 AM, CountryGirl said:

The Mary going blind episodes were very well-done, but I absolutely hated the two-parter where Mary's son, Adam Jr., and Mrs. "Them's Snails" Alice Garvey died.

There is no way a mother, blind or not, would have walked away from her child, knowing the house was on fire. 

It didn't help that Alice looked like she was using AJ to break the window to escape (aka as Baby Battering Ram on TWP).

I'm watching this episode this morning, when Alice and Mary's baby die in the fire. The fire breaks out in the basement. Adam, Alice and Hester Sue are in the kitchen. They smell smoke, so Hester Sue investigates, opening the door to the basement which is filled with flames. Hester Sue leaves the door open, so the flames start going up the stairs to the second floor where Mary, the baby, and all the children are. I know it's just fiction, but they would have had time to all get out safely if she had just closed the basement door. Dumb move Hester Sue!

To CountryGirl's point about Mary leaving her baby. When Adam, Alice and Hester Sue come up the stairs to get everyone out, Mary is by the baby's bassinet. She goes to help the other children get out leaving her baby in the bassinet. No way. Any mother would have picked her baby up and taken him out with her in the first place.

Edited May 5, 2020 by absolutelyido

[CountryGirl]

4 minutes ago, absolutelyido said:

I'm watching this episode this morning, when Alice and Mary's baby die in the fire. The fire breaks out in the basement. Adam, Alice and Hester Sue are in the kitchen. They smell smoke, so Hester Sue investigates, opening the door to the basement which is filled with flames. Hester Sue leaves the door open, so the flames start going up the stairs to the second floor where Mary, the baby, and all the children are. I know it's just fiction, but they likely could have all gotten out safely if she had just closed the basement door. Dumb move Hester Sue!

To CountryGirl's point about Mary leaving her baby. When Adam, Alice and Hester Sue come up the stairs to get everyone out, Mary is by the baby's bassinet. She goes to help the other children get out leaving her baby in the bassinet. No way. Any mother would have picked her baby up and taken her out with her in the first place.

That was beyond stupid as well and Hester Sue was always smarter than that.

[debraran]

1 hour ago, CountryGirl said:

That was beyond stupid as well and Hester Sue was always smarter than that.

That show was talked about a lot, it was different back then but also stupid. Why all the fires and catastrophe? Mary already miscarried, it was too much. Having Albert be part of it, that whole catatonic to "we are ok" segments.  A lot of darkness then, Mr Edwards was made to lose his family, Garvey loses his wife, Mary her baby. I wanted Mr Edwards to be happy, that upset me back then. He loved Alicia and the boys, it didn't feel right. 

Did they ever rebuild the school?

[CountryGirl]

Albert was so not necessary to the show. Nevermind that he never existed, because that was par for the course for this show, but except for him being a snarky shyster early on, he quickly wore out his welcome by the blind school fire. 

It always bugged me that Carrie got shafted (not that I'm certain the actresses could have handled much that wasn't fluff) in favor of Albert and later, Cassandra/James. Carrie was a much bigger character in the books and a friend/confidante to Laura. Don't get me started on Grace never leaving that high chair.

@debraran, there were a few episodes where they talked about rebuilding, with one showing them working on it, but then Adam and Mary learned that the funds they were expecting from Adam's father weren't coming (he had passed and had a ton of debts). That's when Laura found a new location in Sleepy Eye (occupied by Houston HOUSTON Lamb) and Almanzo helped her pay the rent (unbeknownst to her) while still managing to rub a belt-wearing saloon girl's back.

Man, I remember way too much about this show.

 

[debraran]

29 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

Albert was so not necessary to the show. Nevermind that he never existed, because that was par for the course for this show, but except for him being a snarky shyster early on, he quickly wore out his welcome by the blind school fire. 

It always bugged me that Carrie got shafted (not that I'm certain the actresses could have handled much that wasn't fluff) in favor of Albert and later, Cassandra/James. Carrie was a much bigger character in the books and a friend/confidante to Laura. Don't get me started on Grace never leaving that high chair.

@debraran, there were a few episodes where they talked about rebuilding, with one showing them working on it, but then Adam and Mary learned that the funds they were expecting from Adam's father weren't coming (he had passed and had a ton of debts). That's when Laura found a new location in Sleepy Eye (occupied by Houston HOUSTON Lamb) and Almanzo helped her pay the rent (unbeknownst to her) while still managing to rub a belt-wearing saloon girl's back.

Man, I remember way too much about this show.

 

Ah yes, now I remember, Poor Almonzo and the fever and ice (teeth chattering) lol   God forbid they let something go well in Walnut Grove.

Yes, Albert was annoying, but some shows were okay. The "werewolf" dumb ones they did seemed like filler. When he was sick or on drugs, he had more to work with. When the other kids came later, it was too much. I liked when other characters got more work to do, when Caroline had her flirtation, when Charles did handyman duties to get his dishes (which they never showed again) when Nels left Harriot for a while, when we learned of her back story with preacher who left her (Russell was name) so she resented Rev Alden getting married. I loved when Dirk Blocker had a role and wish he stayed on, a carbon of his dad Dan from Bonanza.  The later shows got more painful for me but every so often they had a good one.

Edited May 5, 2020 by debraran

[absolutelyido]

2 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

That was beyond stupid as well and Hester Sue was always smarter than that.

As I think about it, in addition to it being unrealistic that Mary would have left the baby in the bassinet, it was dumb that Adam would have even asked Mary to help with the other children. Realistically, Adam would have told Mary to get out with the baby, then he, Hester Sue and Alice would have gotten the other children out. They really didn't need Mary's help.

[BigBingerBro]

5 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

there were a few episodes where they talked about rebuilding, with one showing them working on it, but then Adam and Mary learned that the funds they were expecting from Adam's father weren't coming (he had passed and had a ton of debts). That's when Laura found a new location in Sleepy Eye (occupied by Houston HOUSTON Lamb) and Almanzo helped her pay the rent (unbeknownst to her) while still managing to rub a belt-wearing saloon girl's back.

Then, when Adam and Mary announce they are moving away, Hester Sue just happens to call to wish them farewell and telling Caroline that the state was taking over the blind school in Sleepy Eye and they fired her for not having any formal teaching credentials, whereupon Caroline suggests she come and help her run the restaurant.  She agrees and ends up moving to Walnut Grove.

Just wanted to add that as I recently saw that episode!

[jird]

I've been watching a ton of this lately too, and I'd never noticed before that Mrs. Oleson was a good cook in the first season or 2 (she was even a finalist in the pie contest on Founder's Day!), and then in later seasons became incapable of even opening an oven door without setting things on fire.

Edited to add that no many how many times I see it, Harv Miller ENRAGES me. He's so dumb and clueless. You can see the exact moment when Eliza Jane's heart shreds into pieces.

Edited May 5, 2020 by jird

[brighteyes]

I've been a huge fan of the series for a long time, but every time I rewatch it now I realize how much it's a suspension of disbelief for a lot of episodes, like the random filler ones - not even including all the added kids in the Ingalls family like Albert and James/Cassandra. It always bothered me that they didn't seem to want to expand on Carrie or Grace and instead found other characters to fill those roles. By the end of the series, Grace should have been at least around 7-10 and Carrie in her preteens/early teens. They already had kids to fill in the child aspect of the show when Laura got older but instead shifted unnecessary focus to these new Ingalls kids. Albert could have been one of Laura's friends instead of her adopted brother - he could have been Cap Garland or another one of the real book characters. 

On 4/29/2020 at 9:03 AM, CountryGirl said:

Similarly, with Little Town on the Prairie, we have Laura working in town, Nellie's return, the animosity between Laura and lazy, lousy Liza Jane (with the "I'll rock that seat, Ms. Wilder!", Mary's going off to college, Laura and Ida's recitation of history and Almanzo asking to see her home. And all kinds of goodness in These Happy Golden Years that don't start out so happy with Laura's first teaching job and her horrible boarding experience but then we have her slowly falling in love with Almanzo (vs her chasing after him). 

One thing that bothered me the most was that they had so much material from the books that could have been used for older Laura's life on the show! The Long Winter, Little Town on The Prairie, and These Happy Golden Years were my favorites from the series - I LOVED Laura and Almanzo's romance and courtship in the books and wasn't a fan of how the show flipped it around and made her pine after him when in reality he pursued her first. I think I remember reading an interview somewhere that they had to flip it because in 70s (and even now) watching an adult man pursue a young teenage girl would definitely be perceived as creepy and predatory, so it makes sense why in our more modern world they had to change things. But I think they still could have kept the essence of their courtship and at least had Almanzo truly court Laura after the Sweet Sixteen episode instead of suddenly jumping into and engagement and marriage. It would have been fun to watch their relationship grow and mature like in the books, even after Laura spent all that time chasing after him on the show.  

[debraran]

On 5/5/2020 at 4:38 PM, jird said:

I've been watching a ton of this lately too, and I'd never noticed before that Mrs. Oleson was a good cook in the first season or 2 (she was even a finalist in the pie contest on Founder's Day!), and then in later seasons became incapable of even opening an oven door without setting things on fire.

Edited to add that no many how many times I see it, Harv Miller ENRAGES me. He's so dumb and clueless. You can see the exact moment when Eliza Jane's heart shreds into pieces.

I was watching that episode with my 20 something daughter yesterday and she was sweet when she said, "Eliza is pretty, they make her dowdy, it wasn't that strange that Harv wouldn't like her" I agree, that was one of the saddest shows, her diary, the voice-overs, the heartbreak, even more than the fires and deaths he had in before because so many could relate. He was clueless but they make most men like that. He wasn't as dull as they made Garvey many times.

I wish they showed she did meet a nice man, maybe an accountant or banker, and got married. I don't know what her story was in the books. There wasn't a reason why she was a spinster but Harriot found Nels ; ) 

I started not to like the show as much now because he didn't take more ideas from the books but redid things he did before.  Laura hates Dr Baker but he decided he wasn't good many shows before when someone died, Eliza Jane couldn't handle the "boys" but Miss Beadle also couldn't and the SAME conclusion was decided, the kids would help (did Laura forget??)

One of the funniest was when Nellie married the pig farmers son and they chased after them to the hotel they were staying in. Harriot yells to Nels "Make her a widow!"  lol I laugh out loud every time.

 

[CountryGirl]

That cracks me up every time re Nellie and Luke's five-minute marriage.

[debraran]

3 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

That cracks me up every time re Nellie and Luke's five-minute marriage.

When she shoots and he runs out in his long underwear past his dad and Miss Beadle. ; )   Poor Nels, his face.  Later he had to keep reminding her someone was marrying their daughter when Percival wasn't her cup of tea either and poor Willie, he had a nice girl too and she didn't like her. At least she was even. Katherine was such a good actress.

Remember her corset incident when she went flying into the restaurant when Nellie was pulling and the ties broke. I can't find the final scene. ; )

Edited May 7, 2020 by debraran

[CountryGirl]

And when she sat on the bacon and eggs to hide them when a then-pregnant Nellie came into the switchboard room and remarked that she could swear she smelled bacon and eggs.

I also loved Nellie and Percival. Nellie still kept her edge but my, my, what a little lovin' from Percival did for her. 

[debraran]

3 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

And when she sat on the bacon and eggs to hide them when a then-pregnant Nellie came into the switchboard room and remarked that she could swear she smelled bacon and eggs.

I also loved Nellie and Percival. Nellie still kept her edge but my, my, what a little lovin' from Percival did for her. 

Yes, and her hiding her food from him when pregnant. They were very close off the set too until his untimely death, he had a great sense of humor. I would have loved to seen more of them together and not have him go to NYC than Cassandra and James, etc. Some interesting stories with those twins. ; )

[jird]

9 hours ago, debraran said:

I started not to like the show as much now because he didn't take more ideas from the books but redid things he did before.  Laura hates Dr Baker but he decided he wasn't good many shows before when someone died, Eliza Jane couldn't handle the "boys" but Miss Beadle also couldn't and the SAME conclusion was decided, the kids would help (did Laura forget??)

I watched the second one of those episodes the other day -- how did Laura not say, "Hey, when this happened before, we all just beat him up together"?

The duplicate episodes really were out of control: outcast boy named Elmer teaches the kids the true meaning of friendship; the same guy loses his wife and son to typhus, and then to anthrax just a couple of years later, the blatant effort to make Jenny be Laura 2.0, etc.

[debraran]

20 hours ago, jird said:

I watched the second one of those episodes the other day -- how did Laura not say, "Hey, when this happened before, we all just beat him up together"?

The duplicate episodes really were out of control: outcast boy named Elmer teaches the kids the true meaning of friendship; the same guy loses his wife and son to typhus, and then to anthrax just a couple of years later, the blatant effort to make Jenny be Laura 2.0, etc.

I'm watching the "I do again" episode where Caroline is suddenly devastated to be in menopause when 2-3 years ago, she was fine with it when she thought she starting it with Grace's pregnancy. The emotional turmoil made me sad watching but how long did she think she'd still have children? Her daughters are having kids, but in that time, even my Mom's era, uncles and aunts the same age as a daughter's child wasn't totally unusual. The fact any woman who had 5 children would think she was useless as a wife and mother if she couldn't have any more is a sign of those times but very disturbing to watch. I did like ending though. ; )

I skipped the Sylvia episodes, rape and crazy clowns aren't part of Little House books and should not be part of the show. The "boys will be boys", shaming of Sylvia and the whole Albert debacle was just a "let us forget this" part of the series.

Edited May 8, 2020 by debraran

[Snow Apple]

It's fun to make fun of the Sylvia episodes but I can't watch reruns of them either.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Y'know I watched the series through several times over the years, as they showed it every weekday at 5 where I lived. I don't remember ever seeing the Sylvia episode, I wonder if it was cut from rotation, or I just happened to miss it. Maybe I just don't remember. 

[debraran]

1 hour ago, Superclam said:

Y'know I watched the series through several times over the years, as they showed it every weekday at 5 where I lived. I don't remember ever seeing the Sylvia episode, I wonder if it was cut from rotation, or I just happened to miss it. Maybe I just don't remember. 

It was pretty bad, so was the Nancy episodes. They made her a sociopath, worse than Nellie and no redeeming qualities. Watching that made me think the specialness of the show was gone.  I read in some of the bios that Melissa Sue Anderson got in trouble for voicing her concerns over that double episode show where she leaves and Nancy comes. Michael Landon put her name as "special guest" that time and I'm not sure she was ever shown again. She saw the downturn and felt bad about it. I liked the Xmas episodes and when the girls were young and can always count on them for a pick me up when needed. If that house was ever made as an airbnb with a real toilet hidden in the back, I'd rent it for sure. ; )

It's easy to monday morning quarterback but I feel after all the years it was on, everyone was tired and kind of writing in their sleep. Michael never wanted to do specials either since he felt people looked at them to see how everyone aged. (that was his insecurity though I feel) I think they could have made more LHOP products like a dollhouse with characters. That would be a nostalgic toy going high bids on ebay. ; )

Edited May 9, 2020 by debraran

[Snow Apple]

On lord. I never minded all the orphans they keep adding to the cast but I hated Nancy. She had no problem trying to kill Albert's girlfriend! I never felt she loved or respected Mrs. Olesen and was just using her. And I wanted to slap her every time she screeched "You hate me!"

I think even Mrs. Olesen hinted that she knew Nancy was a sociopath after a while and probably regretted adopting her.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Snow Apple

[debraran]

Yes, when someone is that totally cruel, with no nice thoughts, you really can't love them. She loved a memory of her daughter who supposedly was nice before Harriot ruined her but Nellie wasn't going to kill something. (I think Nancy killed an animal, starved it to death?) It just wasn't funny, more like a criminal minds episode.

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by debraran

[BigBingerBro]

Nellie was just a spoiled brat.  Nancy was seriously disturbed.  I also agree that Harriet never really loved Nancy.  She picked her because she was a feisty, problematic child that she could mold into another tyrant like Nellie.  She wanted an extension to herself, which is what she got.   

[CountryGirl]

I'm thinking Harriet regretted adopting Nancy. She was pure evil. 

[libgirl2]

Nellie was fun, Nellie had moments.... she was a spoiled brat. I loved her. Nancy was disgusting. I found nothing redeeming about her. 

[debraran]

I saw the one yesterday with influenza and Carolyn went with Dr Baker to help her old friend who was pregnant at a gold prospectors camp. Hearing Dr Baker talk about isolation and how they could carry this back with them even if they don't have symptoms, sounded so familiar. ; ) Doc Baker used quinine which they thought helped back then but not really.  Was pretty close to how they did things back then though and refreshing to see accuracy.

Quinine

Made from the bark of the cinchona tree in South America, quinine had been used for centuries by indigenous people to treat malaria (and still is!). It was brought to Europe by the mid-seventeenth century and continued to prove effective in reducing fevers associated with malaria. During the Spanish flu epidemic of 1918, doctors attempted to use it to stave off the fevers associated with the flu. Unfortunately, the reason quinine reduced malaria's fever was because it actually treated malaria by attacking the parasites cause it. The treatment is useless against viruses like flu.

[Snow Apple]

15 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

Nellie was fun, Nellie had moments.... she was a spoiled brat. I loved her. Nancy was disgusting. I found nothing redeeming about her. 

Nellie had moments of empathy even for Laura, like when Laura sold her horse Bunny.

Nancy was soulless. Like she could grow up to be a serial killer to get what she wants. I wonder if her character was based on the girl in The Bad Seed.

[libgirl2]

2 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

Nellie had moments of empathy even for Laura, like when Laura sold her horse Bunny.

Nancy was soulless. Like she could grow up to be a serial killer to get what she wants. I wonder if her character was based on the girl in The Bad Seed.

That's who she reminded me of! 

[debraran]

She was awful, something I was surprised Michael Landon did. I think maybe he was having his own issues then with divorce etc. and trying to get ratings up by bringing in darker themes. He lost touch with fan base who didn't want to be reminded of sociopaths and suicide and people wanting to burn in fires etc. I remember thinking if Harriot for some reason had a baby or young child in the house too, Nancy would find a way to get rid of it and maybe permanently. Willie should have been used more and I'm glad he had some standout moments with his Mom and new bride, etc.

[CountryGirl]

For something fun, how about discussing our Top 5 best episodes and Top 5 worst episodes.

Best:

#1: Country Girls (S1, E2) because it was one of the truest to the books of any episode, including "snipes, snipes!" re Mary and Laura's outgrown dresses, the intro to Nellie Olsen and her being snooty about their lack of being able to pay for a slate pencil, only the slate and remembering their Christmas pennies (and Mary remarking how mean Nellie was and Laura saying she could be just as mean, if Ma and Pa would let her), and Laura having had enough of playing Ring Around the Rosy.

#2 - Town Party, Country (S1, E7) because it was another episode that had some of my favorite moments from BTBOPC. Obviously the best was Nellie and the crab, but I also loved Laura's "I don't play with dolls, I play in the creek." I could have done without Olga and Pa making her a magical shoe and getting into a somewhat erotic fight with Olga's father over it. 

#3 - The Pilot - I sound like a broken record but again, this was probably as true to the books as we would ever see. And I'm a softie for Mr. Edwards delivering the Christmas presents, even if he and CaroLYNN (it was CaroLINE, dang it!) were making eyes at each other. 

#4 - Christmas at Plum Creek (S1, E15). I loved all of the scenes of the family working to make everyone else's Christmas special. Even Carrie didn't grate as she usually did and was super-cute getting the star for Baby Jeebus. But man did my heart break watching Laura sacrifice her beloved Bunny to Nellie so she could buy Ma a stove. 

#5 - Remember Me (S2, E7 & E8) - yes, I have a non-S1 episode on my list. The tale of family friend Julia Sanderson (played by Patricia Neal) dying and leaving Charles to find her 3 children a home was pretty great. It had a sworn-off-love/commitment after losing his wife and daughter Isaiah finally showing Grace his true feelings and the two of them marrying not simply to give the children a home but because they loved each other. I also love the poem ML, who wrote and directed the two-parter, shared as part of Julia's goodbye to everyone:  "Remember me with smiles and laughter, for that's the way I'll remember you all. If you can only remember me with tears, then don't remember me at all." It was written by LIW.

Worst:

#1 - Sylvia (S7, E17 & E18). The town blacksmith puts on a clown mask and stalks and rapes a teenage girl, impregnating her. Her father accuses her of being a whore (and more than once). Harriet basically does the same thing because God forbid Willy be a creepy jerk peeping at her. Albert falls in love with her and is all ready to be a teenage father. They decide to run off together but the rapist tracks her down first and in running away from him, she falls to her almost-immediate death. WTAF, ML?

#2 - The Godsister (S5, E14) - it was nice that the Greenbush twins finally got thrown a bone and got a Carrie-centric episode but giant strawberries, enormous spiders, and "Alyssa! Alyssa!" and OMG, that was painful.

#3 - The Halloween Dream (S6, E7) - Albert has a dream that he and Laura are kidnapped by Indians and mistaken for Indians from a rival tribe. Chock full of racist stereotypes, it boggles the mind at how ML came up with this.

#4 - May We Make Them Proud (S6, E18 & E19) - I've already expressed my disdain for this episode upthread, but to reiterate, no mother, blind or otherwise, would have walked away from their child when they knew the house was on fire. No father, blind or otherwise, would have walked away either, much less dragged their wife away to help the blind students. They would have picked up their own child first. Add in it appearing that Alice was using Adam Jr to break through the window, Hester Sue pulling open the door to the cellar, where the fire was contained, and LEAVING it open, the constant "mmmm mmmm mmmm" from Mary,  Albert being the culprit and being insta-forgiven!!!, and OMFG, forget it!

#5 - Am I allowed to say the entire final season? Okay, okay, I'll toss it up to the final two episodes. The first being where they blew up the town and other houses, etc. (but of course NOT the LH) for reasons I can't recall. Not that I would care either way. Then we have the Rose gets kidnapped episode. Except they're still living in Walnut Grove in the home that was supposedly blown up so...and then insta-forgive the crazy women who kidnapped Rose and then fob off an orphan to her and peace out.

What say you?

 

[debraran]

I would have the same favorites , especially the pilot. I gave my girls the tin cup, penny and peppermint stick one year. : )

I also liked The Handyman and I'll be waving as you drive away" and that might replace "Remember Me" for me but it's close. Both were very good. I hated how Mary acted at the in Handyman at the end, but it gave "Ma" something else to do but pour coffee.

Worst:

SYLVIA!!

Godsister! (horrible script and acting)

May We Make Them Proud (Awful for so many reasons)

Halloween Dream (wish it was a dream)

Troublemaker (just watching kids getting hit for an hour)

He was only 12 ( runner up horrible)

 

 

[BigBingerBro]

I have way too many episodes that I dislike, so i'll only list my favorites:

Christmas at Plum Creek - Season 1 - So heartwarming anytime of the year.

Country Girls - Season 1 - M Gilbert was a bit cloying in this one, but one i could watch over and over.

A Matter of Faith - Season 2 - Great acting by Karen Grassle. Well written also.

Little Women - Season 3 - Great scenes with Nellie and her wig - "I want CURLS!"

The Racoon - Season 1 - I would love to heard more about how Melissa Gilbert handled that raccoon.  I'm sure there was a professional animal trainer nearby, but she really did great with it.

The Gift - Season 2 - Good story about the girls trying to buy a better bible by selling medicinal tonics.  Rev Alden's handling of it was excellent.

The Collection - Season 3 - Johnny Cash as a fake preacher was quite good.

My Ellen - Season 4 - Sad storyline, but just psycho enough to make it good.

Whisper Country - Season 4 - Who could forget Miss Peel and Mary's epic dressing her down.

[debraran]

I LOVED Johnny Cash! I was thinking of Colombo, re a song he sung there but he was great on that episode. Seeing him slowly change and come around to honesty and being touched by everyone. He spoke fondly of how the cast was kind to him not really knowing about acting. Later his Columbo episode was great too.

 

Edited May 12, 2020 by debraran

[CountryGirl]

3 hours ago, BigBingerBro said:

I have way too many episodes that I dislike, so i'll only list my favorites:

Christmas at Plum Creek - Season 1 - So heartwarming anytime of the year.

Country Girls - Season 1 - M Gilbert was a bit cloying in this one, but one i could watch over and over.

A Matter of Faith - Season 2 - Great acting by Karen Grassle. Well written also.

Little Women - Season 3 - Great scenes with Nellie and her wig - "I want CURLS!"

The Racoon - Season 1 - I would love to heard more about how Melissa Gilbert handled that raccoon.  I'm sure there was a professional animal trainer nearby, but she really did great with it.

The Gift - Season 2 - Good story about the girls trying to buy a better bible by selling medicinal tonics.  Rev Alden's handling of it was excellent.

The Collection - Season 3 - Johnny Cash as a fake preacher was quite good.

My Ellen - Season 4 - Sad storyline, but just psycho enough to make it good.

Whisper Country - Season 4 - Who could forget Miss Peel and Mary's epic dressing her down.

Really great list! 

Whisper Country - so iconic. Especially the dialogue  

“Soap AND Water.”

”Jezebel.”

“A sinful stench in the nostrils of the righteous.” The aforementioned soap and water  

“You WILL burn.”

And don’t get Mary’s dander up because you’ll be sorry  

 

 

 

[debraran]

Fun fact on show with raccoon, at the end Michael Landon was sick and couldn't film the ending as directed.  This trivia site also said the dog Michael loved and although he was supposed to be a bulldog, they let him play Jack until he died in season 4.

"The scene with Mary and Pa in the barn when Mary confesses that Jasper bit Laura too was supposed to have cross cut images of Pa. Michael Landon got ill during this shoot and couldn’t record close-ups of his dialogue. The producers decided that Melissa Sue Anderson’s acting was strong enough to carry the scene. The final cuts featured only close-ups of Mary, and the episode was finished on time as a result."

[Katy M]

On 5/7/2020 at 7:18 AM, debraran said:

started not to like the show as much now because he didn't take more ideas from the books but redid things he did before.

I can also think of at least 2 episodes he recycled from Bonanza. The one where Ma gets an infection in her leg and decides to cut it off, and the one where Pa's going to put a picture window in and it keeps getting broken.  Wouldn't surprise me if there were more.

[debraran]

16 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I can also think of at least 2 episodes he recycled from Bonanza. The one where Ma gets an infection in her leg and decides to cut it off, and the one where Pa's going to put a picture window in and it keeps getting broken.  Wouldn't surprise me if there were more.

Yes, he did redo a lot of scripts, I feel with his talent and the writers it was laziness. Today was the "bad" newspaper gossiping again with Mrs Carter being the head of the paper, before it was Harriot and some guy. Mr Edwards loses his lady friend who was blind and got her sight back (like Adam) because she was too young, just like Dr Baker and his young interest Ann Archer. "You are spring and I'm late Fall" he told her as he sadly walked away. Michael had left his wife for a younger woman but I guess that he knew on the show, fans might think it was odd to see that coupling. I always felt there was no reason Doc Baker couldn't find a wife like Rev Alden except they just didn't want to add anyone to the cast. With Rev Alden, they rarely showed her though.

Recycled themes from Wiki :

Some of the episodes written by Michael Landon were recycled storylines from ones that he had written for Bonanza. Season two's "A Matter of Faith" was based on the Bonanza episode "A Matter of Circumstance"; season five's "Someone Please Love Me" was based on the Bonanza episode "A Dream To Dream"; season seven's "The Silent Cry" was based on the Bonanza episode "The Sound of Sadness"; season eight's "He Was Only Twelve" was based on the Bonanza episode "He Was Only Seven"; and season nine's "Little Lou" was based on the Bonanza episode "It's A Small World

 

[jird]

Just noticed that Johnny Johnson taking Laura to the sweetheart tree so he could show her how much he liked Mary was very much like Harv Miller inviting Eliza Jane to dinner to tell her he was in love with someone else.