Little House On The Prairie - General Discussion

[Pirpana]

22 hours ago, Blergh said:

Did they ever have a funeral for Mrs. Holbrook or even show her Walnut Grove grave? If not, then are we supposed to believe that her widower just kept her coffin in the back of his wagon until he went to this own wagon train in the sky?

Actually they did. And that means Caroline's ma is left in blown-up WG when the show ends! Here's a pic:

I have actually wondered if the man in the red circle is episode's director Bill Claxton. They have some resemblance - compare with photo with Laura and Chris above. Also the man's jeans look modern with those backside pockets.

And about Ma's surname. It made me crazy when I watched the show first time in 2014-2016. Here, they introduce her pa whose name is Holbrook, and then four episodes later, one of their former classmates shouts at the top of his lungs: "Caroline Quiner!" I was like, what the heck?

[Blergh]

3 hours ago, Pirpana said:

Actually they did. And that means Caroline's ma is left in blown-up WG when the show ends! Here's a pic:

I have actually wondered if the man in the red circle is episode's director Bill Claxton. They have some resemblance - compare with photo with Laura and Chris above. Also the man's jeans look modern with those backside pockets.

And about Ma's surname. It made me crazy when I watched the show first time in 2014-2016. Here, they introduce her pa whose name is Holbrook, and then four episodes later, one of their former classmates shouts at the top of his lungs: "Caroline Quiner!" I was like, what the heck?

Yeah, if they were going to use 'Quiner' why not have had it explained that Mr. Holbrook had married Ma's widowed mother who'd been left with six surviving children after 1st husband's evident drowning death- AND that he had stepped up to the plate so well that Ma considered him to be her de facto father AND had named her doomed son Charles Frederick 'Freddie' Ingalls after him? I'm sure the Ingallses would have encountered a one-shot classmate resenting their widowed mother (or father) remarrying a perfectly nice new spouse and it would have been a great time for Ma to have given them a pep talk over their loyalty towards their deceased parent AND being unsure about the newest family member. 

[halfpint ingals]

Quote

I was watching the Winoka episodes and just wondered what exactly the point was of being in Winoka. It was just five episodes. It seemed a bit anticlimactic

Alison Arngrim addresses this topic in a Walnut Grove podcast interview in October 2019.  She talks about how in real life the Ingalls family only lived in Walnut Grove for a couple of years and moved on.   She says they settled in De Smet, South Dakota and lived there for years.

She also says Laura created some fiction as Nellie and her family were here in the books.  She says in real life it was Genevieve Masters and Stella Gilbert, but Laura changed it to Nellie as she received many letters asking for more stories about Nellie.

Alison talks about how since the Ingalls family left Walnut Grove for South Dakota that the show decided to follow the books and real life as well. They were going to South Dakota on the show and make it permanent.   They filmed on the Western Street set that was in several TV shows and movies, like Bonanza.   They  had the Olesen family and the Garvey family come along for some familiarity. 

But the episodes were not popular when they aired. The viewers missed the familiar sets and locations with the beloved town.  And they missed characters like Dr. Baker and Rev. Alden. They could not accept the changes and did not like the Ingalls living in the big city. 

So the show made the decision to return to Walnut Grove since the viewers liked it a lot better and were used to it.

 

ETA: In her book, Karen Grassle says they moved to Mankato, not Winoka.

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by halfpint ingals

[Egg McMuffin]

I’m not buying that explanation from Alison. The first episode that year aired on September 11, and by October 9, they were leaving Winoka. When did they figure out the audience didn’t like Winoka? Two weeks after the season premiere? And then the scripts were redone and production rearranged so that an episode where the Ingalls family moved back to Walnut Grove was on the air two weeks later? You can’t move that fast in the production of a one-hour weekly drama.

In reality, they were likely shooting the episode where the family returned to Walnut Grove before the season premiere even aired. At the very least, those scripts were written before the season premiere aired.

Also, if they had planned to keep the family in the city permanently, wouldn’t they have retitled the show? Because “Little House on the Prairie” wouldn’t have made sense as the title anymore. And wouldn’t they have redone the opening credits?

Edited March 11, 2022 by Egg McMuffin

[Blergh]

IIRC, I think they they had to renovate/ overhaul the indoor LH sets for X # of weeks and they had to use another set of sets so THAT is why they had the Winoka move but it was never intended to have been a permanent one.

Interestingly, FWIW Miss Arngrim has claimed that she and Miss Gilbert discovered the remains of The Wizard of Oz (1939) THE Yellow Brick Road beneath the Winoka/temporary set. 

[debraran]

So many book and interviews.  I thought I read Michael wanted a change thinking Walnut Grove was getting limited and he could get more stories in the "bad" city. To bring so many people into WG was harder. I don't know how ratings were, he hated drops but maybe it didn't rise as much as he thought. The good/bad theme was a bit much. Renovating was also mentioned but they went there more than once, sometimes just a visit. I don't think Michael ever would have left the little house, he knew the "feel good" part came partly from that core but nothing helped the rapes, fires and over dramatic deaths.

[Egg McMuffin]

Yep. I think it was always intended as a temporary change too. I do think it should have lasted longer. There were more stories to mine with the setup of the Ingalls being in the city. And it would have made the return to Walnut Grove much more impactful had it happened more toward the end of the season.

[Snow Apple]

I mis-remembered the Winoka were only five episodes. I remember it as lasting an entire season. But I was a kid when it first aired and seeing the show weekly probably made it seem longer than seeing multiple episodes per day.

I'm glad it wasn't a permanent move. 

[CountryGirl]

Only 5 episodes?

Wow. I really did feel like it was an entire season or at least a half-season. Probably because they returned for Blind Journey and possibly another episode or two.

I've always believed the temporary move was for (1) Pa to get his superior on with the townfolks, especially Mr. Standish and (2) so he could introduce/adopt Drip Lip Albert. 

[jird]

2 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

I mis-remembered the Winoka were only five episodes. I remember it as lasting an entire season. But I was a kid when it first aired and seeing the show weekly probably made it seem longer than seeing multiple episodes per day.

I'm glad it wasn't a permanent move. 

Yeah, it seemed much longer to me, too.

[Prairie Rose]

12 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

I've always believed the temporary move was for (1) Pa to get his superior on with the townfolks, especially Mr. Standish and (2) so he could introduce/adopt Drip Lip Albert. 

Is this when ML theorized that the Greenbush twins weren't cutting it in the child actor department so he had to bring in Albert? Then again, Carrie was basically a non-entity for the entire series, so who knows.

[Zella]

That Winoka subarc was so weird to me. When I watched the show for the first time a year ago, I actually enjoyed the premise of them moving somewhere else. It was true to the books, and it helped break up some of the staidness any show falls into after a few years. I remember liking the first couple of episodes but then it got so monotonous. What actually bothered me more than those episodes themselves is how they went back to Walnut Grove and after one episode all the reasons they'd felt compelled to leave were no big deal. LOL 

Edited March 11, 2022 by Zella

[Blergh]

2 hours ago, Zella said:

That Winoka subarc was so weird to me. When I watched the show for the first time a year ago, I actually enjoyed the premise of them moving somewhere else. It was true to the books, and it helped break up some of the staidness any show falls into after a few years. I remember liking the first couple of episodes but then it got so monotonous. What actually bothered me more than those episodes themselves is how they went back to Walnut Grove and after one episode all the reasons they'd felt compelled to leave were no big deal. LOL 

And Nels somehow had scored enough roulette winnings in the Winoka saloon  to somehow not just revive Oleson's Mercantile but evidently all of Walnut Grove since no other cash influx ever got mentioned!

Of course, what was funny was that Mr. Standish had spent so many energies trying to cheat the hapless Toby Noe via card playing that one of his former employees decimating the house take TOTALLY went under his radar even before the fireworks explosion destroyed the saloon (as well as the Oleson Family's one-room living quarters). 

[crazy8s]

I was always amused by the fact they went back to Walnut Grove and never had to introduce or explain the presence of Albert to anyone. When it is decided to gather neighbors to spruce up the church/school, which looked like it had been deserted for 10 years, Laura and Albert run off to alert the neighbors no one ever asked who the heck he was.

Also weird, the reason given the mill needed to be reopened was Sleepy Eye and Mankato had grown so much that they would need flour and the farmers in walnut grove would be able to get a good price for their wheat crops. you know those crops they hadn't planted yet, since they had been away and Nels had not been to the big city to stock up seed. Oh also, didn't they change to growing the "money crop" that was corn instead of wheat anyway??

[CraftyHazel]

On 3/9/2022 at 7:23 PM, Blergh said:

Not to mention Caroline's stepfather Mr. Holbrook died in 1874 while her mother Charlotte  would survive to 1884 so this went QUITE contrary to the RL events

Sorry…this made me literally laugh out loud.  When did Michael Landon EVER care about keeping true to RL events??  Mary getting married and having a child, the multiple adopted kids the Ingalls added, women’s liberation, Colonel Sanders, Laura brawling in the streets with Brenda Sue, Cousin Jenny, etc. etc. etc.  The real Ingalls and Wilder families were probably spinning in their graves!

[Blergh]

8 hours ago, CraftyHazel said:

Sorry…this made me literally laugh out loud.  When did Michael Landon EVER care about keeping true to RL events??  Mary getting married and having a child, the multiple adopted kids the Ingalls added, women’s liberation, Colonel Sanders, Laura brawling in the streets with Brenda Sue, Cousin Jenny, etc. etc. etc.  The real Ingalls and Wilder families were probably spinning in their graves!

You're almost entirely right here. However, RL Laura Ingalls DID do something for women's liberation. ..well, specifically, her own: she flatly told Almanzo when he proposed to her that she would not vow 'to obey' him ( not because she believed in women's rights) but because she (at age 18) knew that she wouldn't have been able to do so. I suppose she'd already used up all her obedience reserves for Ma, Pa. ..and, sometimes, Mary. He agreed  to the then-unconventional terms and they would stay wed for the next 64 years to his death

[BigBingerBro]

7 minutes ago, Blergh said:

and they would stay wed for the next 64 years to his death

I do wonder how happy that marriage really was.  I read books about Rose Wilder and her and her friends often made comments about how Laura constantly nagged Almanzo and it sounded like his life was fairly miserable.   Meanwhile, on the show, I recall on-screen she was rather a nag as well after getting married.

[Zella]

When I read the books last year, I thought she wrote very differently about the Almanzo she courted than the Almanzo she married. And to be fair, they had a really hard first few years, between their son dying, Almanzo suffering lifelong disability from his illness, the fire, etc., but it just made me assume that the marriage had perhaps never quite recovered from all of those things in quick succession. It wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't happily ever after. 

Edited March 12, 2022 by Zella

[Blergh]

Just now, BigBingerBro said:

I do wonder how happy that marriage really was.  I read books about Rose Wilder and her and her friends often made comments about how Laura constantly nagged Almanzo and it sounded like his life was fairly miserable.   Meanwhile, on the show, I recall on-screen she was rather a nag as well after getting married.

Valid question. As far as anyone knows, there was no physical abuse, adultery or neglect in that marriage but it didn't seem all lovey dovey either. Of course, in considering the source (namely their own daughter Rose Wilder Lane), Mrs. Lane herself separated from then divorced her own husband after nine years of marriage (what was especially tragic was that their marriage went asunder after their only child having been stillborn- who, as in the case of Mrs. Lane's own shortlived baby brother, never got named and very rarely would be mentioned). Perhaps since Mrs. Lane herself had ended her own marriage, she couldn't imagine her parents staying married since they weren't openly crazy about each other.  

While the Wilders had married in an era where it was rather tough to get divorces AND there were far fewer legal justifications for it than today, they did stay physically together even when Mrs. Wilder's and Mrs. Lane's respective monies (and her large number of family members and friends)could have afforded Mrs. Wilder  living separately from Mr. Wilder in the last part of their marriage had she wanted to.  I tend to think that while theirs wasn't an idyllic union, they did have a quiet, unstated love for each other and believed each could rely on the other as an anchor to get through tough times- and it's likely that at the end of Mr. Wilder's life, they had a cozier time with each other (having weathered many storms that had gotten thrown at them and within) than perhaps at any other time of their lives.

[Katy M]

12 hours ago, CraftyHazel said:

Sorry…this made me literally laugh out loud.  When did Michael Landon EVER care about keeping true to RL events??

I don't think he really needed to. This was a TV show loosely based on books, that were somewhat based on true life (even the books aren't 100% accurate to what really happened).  It wasn't a documentary.  

[Blergh]

4 hours ago, Katy M said:

I don't think he really needed to. This was a TV show loosely based on books, that were somewhat based on true life (even the books aren't 100% accurate to what really happened).  It wasn't a documentary.  

Agree but I have to admit that I prefer the first half of the series when ML at least tried to make the fictional series somewhat reflect what life was like for the Ingallses and other families in the 1870's and 1880's Midwest US.  Having encounters with a 20-something William Randolph Hearst AND a late middle-aged Colonel Sanders doppelganger (at roughly the time when the RL Harlan Sanders was BORN),etc. in the latter half showed he was no longer even trying aim for any kind of realistic depictions.   

[Zella]

3 minutes ago, Blergh said:

I have to admit that I prefer the first half of the series when ML at least tried to make the fictional series somewhat reflect what life was like for the Ingallses and other families in the 1870's and 1880's Midwest US.

Agreed. I sincerely enjoyed the first 3 or so seasons. By the end, I was only watching to see how stupid it would be. I was justly rewarded, but it also disappointed me because the show clearly could be better. 

[Egg McMuffin]

Landon became addicted to the melodrama. A little melodrama sprinkled in can work. “Remember Me” is arguably melodramatic, but it’s a very effective episode because Landon hadn’t gone overboard yet. Later on, he kept upping melodrama because the audience had become Immune to the simpler, heart-tugging stories. That’s why we got Alice Garvey dying in the fire, the raping mime, and the infamous episode where hail destroys the crops, Zaldamo gets diphtheria and has a stroke, and a tornado blows away the house. All in the same episode. Now, how can you top that?

Edited March 13, 2022 by Egg McMuffin

[Zella]

Just now, Egg McMuffin said:

Now, how can you top that?

With an orangutan saving them from a fire but being unfairly blamed for it! 

[CountryGirl]

Albert barfs up drugs is going to be on today. It’s no Baby Battering Ram, Mime Rapist, or Babies with Mullets-saving Orangutan, but it’s always a good time. 

[Ceindreadh]

3 hours ago, Egg McMuffin said:

Landon became addicted to the melodrama. A little melodrama sprinkled in can work. “Remember Me” is arguably melodramatic, but it’s a very effective episode because Landon hadn’t gone overboard yet. Later on, he kept upping melodrama because the audience had become Immune to the simpler, heart-tugging stories. That’s why we got Alice Garvey dying in the fire, the raping mime, and the infamous episode where hail destroys the crops, Zaldamo gets diphtheria and has a stroke, and a tornado blows away the house. All in the same episode. Now, how can you top that?

To be fair, IIRC, real life Almanzo did get diphtheria and have a stroke and their house did burn down - although I don't think it happened in quite such close proximity as on the show. 

[Blergh]

And yet, even with ALL ML put Almanzo through  via the diphtheria and the stroke, somehow Almanzo wound up still looking as though he could carry a stagecoach instead of being a barely keep from being a total invalid.  I know that Mr. Butler was simply too vigorous and hearty to have been a believable stroke survivor but maybe ML should have either skipped depicting that part of the Wilder saga- or  recast a rather puny looking performer to do the role after the stroke! 

[jird]

2 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

Albert barfs up drugs is going to be on today. It’s no Baby Battering Ram, Mime Rapist, or Babies with Mullets-saving Orangutan, but it’s always a good time. 

Came here to see if anyone else was watching it!

[Egg McMuffin]

 

5 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

Albert barfs up drugs is going to be on today. It’s no Baby Battering Ram, Mime Rapist, or Babies with Mullets-saving Orangutan, but it’s always a good time. 

 

LET IT OUT!!!

[Prairie Rose]

8 hours ago, Egg McMuffin said:

Landon became addicted to the melodrama. 

That's probably why he never got any Emmy love, unlike The Waltons.

[debraran]

9 hours ago, Prairie Rose said:

That's probably why he never got any Emmy love, unlike The Waltons.

Yes the only nomination, they earned, with Melissa Sue and the 2 parter with her going blind. Didn't win but she deserved the nod. Make fun of it at times, but really was well written for that show, her "suffocation" feeling, her being scared, her depression, anger, denial. Why more like that wasn't written, IDK.  Mike didn't do anything, written by Carole Raschella Michael Raschella and Directed by William F. Claxton

[Prairie Rose]

On 3/14/2022 at 7:11 AM, debraran said:

Yes the only nomination, they earned, with Melissa Sue and the 2 parter with her going blind. Didn't win but she deserved the nod. Make fun of it at times, but really was well written for that show, her "suffocation" feeling, her being scared, her depression, anger, denial. Why more like that wasn't written, IDK.  Mike didn't do anything, written by Carole Raschella Michael Raschella and Directed by William F. Claxton

That was a very good episode, and everyone involved did commendable work. It was probably MSA's best performance of the series and she did truly earn the nomination (though she lost the Emmy to Sada Thompson of Family). 

[Blergh]

On 3/17/2022 at 7:38 PM, Prairie Rose said:

That was a very good episode, and everyone involved did commendable work. It was probably MSA's best performance of the series and she did truly earn the nomination (though she lost the Emmy to Sada Thompson of Family). 

I wonder if they thought that since she was still a teen and the show seemed to have a long run ahead, that the voters may have decided that Miss Anderson might get other chances to shine either as Mary Ingalls or as another character in a drama series- while Sada Thompson had had a long career and was middle aged so perhaps they thought this may have been the late Miss Thompson's only shot! 

[Prairie Rose]

5 minutes ago, Blergh said:

I wonder if they thought that since she was still a teen and the show seemed to have a long run ahead, that the voters may have decided that Miss Anderson might get other chances to shine either as Mary Ingalls or as another character in a drama series- while Sada Thompson had had a long career and was middle aged so perhaps they thought this may have been the late Miss Thompson's only shot! 

In Sada Thompson's case, that was the only Emmy she won despite several nominations before and since 1978. MSA was only Emmy-nominated that one time (to date).

[Egg McMuffin]

It also helped Sada Thompson that “Family” had a pedigree (created by playwright Jay Presson Allen and produced by Mike Nichols) and a bit of critical acclaim. LHOTP didn’t have that, and it’s always harder to win an acting award for a series that’s not well regarded by the Academy. But not impossible (see Lindsay Wagner).

[Prairie Rose]

10 hours ago, Egg McMuffin said:

It also helped Sada Thompson that “Family” had a pedigree (created by playwright Jay Presson Allen and produced by Mike Nichols) and a bit of critical acclaim. LHOTP didn’t have that, and it’s always harder to win an acting award for a series that’s not well regarded by the Academy. But not impossible (see Lindsay Wagner).

Along those same lines, years after LHOP had ceased production and ML had passed, his daughter Jennifer won three consecutive Daytime Emmy's for her work on As the World Turns. I didn't watch that show, so I can't speak for her acting, but I always wondered if she would have won three times in a row if her last name hadn't been Landon. I also wondered if that was the Academy's way of making it up to ML for never recognizing his work in his lifetime.

[Blergh]

9 hours ago, Prairie Rose said:

Along those same lines, years after LHOP had ceased production and ML had passed, his daughter Jennifer won three consecutive Daytime Emmy's for her work on As the World Turns. I didn't watch that show, so I can't speak for her acting, but I always wondered if she would have won three times in a row if her last name hadn't been Landon. I also wondered if that was the Academy's way of making it up to ML for never recognizing his work in his lifetime.

I disagree. 

In the first place, LHOTP was originally broadcast in during the evening instead of the daytime so it wouldn't have qualified for a Daytime Emmy. And, in the 2nd place, how probable would it have been for the majority of voters for Daytime Emmys to have voted for Jennifer Landon ( not just once but three times)  solely due to   the belief that ML's ghost would have haunted them for the primetime Emmys having never recognized his work during his life?

Edited March 20, 2022 by Blergh

[Prairie Rose]

Love this pic:

[Blergh]

8 hours ago, Prairie Rose said:

Love this pic:

Same here but since Nellie and Laura had barely truced things over while Percival and Almanzo were total strangers to each other (and I can't recall these guys having any dialogue whatsoever with each other the entire time Percival was on the show), it's next to impossible that these LHOTP characters would have posed for this pic!

[Egg McMuffin]

I’ve said it before - the show really missed a chance to develop the Laura/Nellie friendship after Nellie was married/tamed. Instead, they hardly had a scene together after that, until Nellie came home for a visit and they were suddenly BFFs.

[debraran]

I love when MSA talks of Alison. ; ) Long interview, six parts but I just rewatched the second part again.

 

[Blergh]

On 3/29/2022 at 11:01 AM, Egg McMuffin said:

I’ve said it before - the show really missed a chance to develop the Laura/Nellie friendship after Nellie was married/tamed. Instead, they hardly had a scene together after that, until Nellie came home for a visit and they were suddenly BFFs.

Yeah, and come to think of it, I can't think of a time when Adam and Almanzo had a conversation- and those two were brothers-in-law! 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Blergh

[jason88cubs]

[Blergh]

On 4/4/2022 at 7:12 AM, jason88cubs said:

As in steroids or. . . hemorrhoids? It could have gone either way with Charles/ML!

[CountryGirl]

Pa Messiah using steroids or having hemorrhoids? Perish the thought. 

[jason88cubs]

Was there any episodes where Charles had to cook?

[ctlady]

I never saw the final movie - The Last Farewell.  Finally caught it yesterday.  It really would've been a shame if Lassiter had a change of heart and decided to let the citizens stay before he discovered they blew everything up.  Oh well.

Hallmark has been looping the LHOTP episodes from pilot to final movie for some time now.  I always look forward to when Laura meets Manly (Back To School Pt 1) then the 5 epiosde arc that starts with Sweet Sixteen and ends with Laura Ingalls Wilder Pt2

Speaking of Sweet Sixteen, that rust and teal dress Laura wears to death appears in The Last Farewell  They either fashioned a new one or let it out/took the hem down to accomadate her adult growth spurt!

[Mr. Sparkle]

34 minutes ago, jason88cubs said:

Was there any episodes where Charles had to cook?

Yeah, at least one where the women all move out and women's lib and blah blah. I know Baby Grace was in it. Of course he burned everything and learned a valuable lesson. 

[BigBingerBro]

It seems like the only folks in Walnut Grove that could cook were Caroline, Hester Sue, Nels and of course Percival.   

[Blergh]

15 hours ago, BigBingerBro said:

It seems like the only folks in Walnut Grove that could cook were Caroline, Hester Sue, Nels and of course Percival.   

So does this mean that Doc Baker, Reverend Alden and Miss Beadle just ate  Campbell's Soup straight out of the can without heating it or adding water? I looked it up and it's been around since 1869 so that would have worked for the timeline?

Edited April 12, 2022 by Blergh