Law & Order Discussion Topic (2019 - 2021)

[catlover79]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Rather than not have an episode in which Briscoe was absurdly accused (because I appreciate the absurdity of him being accused and how it turns the ancient trope Jewish scapegoating⭐️ on its head), I would have liked to additionally have had another similar but different episode in which no Jewish main characters were accused, which would, as you suggested, have made the audience speculate more on the outcome, and could have even had Briscoe wondering.

————————-

⭐️ Just a note to anyone who might not know, Jewish scapegoating is literally known as “Blood Libel” because of this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel and “scapegoating” is a biblical reference (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scapegoat).

</end-history-lesson>
.  
 

Yes, I agree with @wknt3 that “Gov Love” does not show convicting a killer as being more important than (gay) civil rights, but rather the opposite, as evinced by Jack’s obvious lack of joy over winning his case, and, more importantly, that in having Saint Jack have to choose between getting a conviction and supporting civil rights, the script gives a strong argument for having laws that protect civil rights, which becomes the point of the story in the end IMO.  However, to get to that end, the script stirs up feelings of outrage in the viewer which prevents some viewers from being able to see that the writers are on their side —a choice perhaps made to stir the offended viewers into legislative action (voting, etc.) while perhaps making more right wing viewers question their own stance —a pretty tall order for a half hour TV episode. 
 

Recently one of the affiliate stations on which I watch L&O (so either ION or Bounce, but likely ION) has been showing short bits, recently recorded, featuring a few of the main actors talking about their roles on the show. Elisabeth Röhm had a bit which she actually uses (or likely was hired to use the bit) to defend the “Is it because I’m a lesbian?” eleventh hour (and 59 minutes) reveal as being cool. 🙄 I would have appreciated it if it included a mention of how it could have been written better, but Elisabeth Röhm is not the person to do that. 

That would be ION. I've seen those bits, too.

[Xeliou66]

I’ve always wondered if Serena was always meant to be gay and the revelation of it was just really poorly executed or if the writers just pulled it out of their ass. There were some hints about Serena possibly being gay in prior seasons, she always took cases regarding gay issues very personally, look at the episodes Asterisk, Married With Children and Gov Love for examples, so it wasn’t entirely out of left field, it was just beyond awkward and forced the way it was revealed.

[txhorns79]

37 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I’ve always wondered if Serena was always meant to be gay and the revelation of it was just really poorly executed or if the writers just pulled it out of their ass.

In this article, Rohm says they did it to give the character a "splashy" ending.  With that in mind, I would guess the latter suggestion that Serena's lesbianism was something that the writers came up with at the last minute, is the correct one. 

[Xeliou66]

I watched City Hall tonight, and I have to say this is one episode where I sort of agreed with Melnick. I thought Melnick made great points about how the government getting rubber stamped warrants from a secret court and searching people’s homes without notifying them is a violation of our rights and is scary. Peter Reuben did commit the city hall shooting so I was glad he was found guilty, his guilt was obvious with the evidence of the murder weapon plus the eyewitness plus motive, so the jury got the right verdict, and I thought Melnick’s statement about how nothing they could would bring the councilman back was ridiculous, yeah they couldn’t bring him back but they could give him justice, and McCoy’s closing argument was strong as always, but I shared Melnick’s views about how the government acted and McCoy and Serena’s concern about it. 

And I thought Arthur was something of a hypocrite with how he was all for federal government power in this episode when in the episode before he was all against the federal government being involved in same sex marriage, it seemed like Arthur changed his philosophy about government power based on whether he liked what they were involved with or not. 

I loved Briscoe’s quip about how city hall was closed to the public, and it was interesting how Van Buren showed up at the crime scene, she didn’t do that often, only for big cases. 

City Hall is a great episode, good storyline that brings up interesting points, I don’t recall ever seeing it discussed on here, what does everyone else think of that episode? 

[MarylandGirl]

I agree with most of your points on "City Hall" (just watched it). I mean, "Nothing you could do would bring him back" could apply to any murder trial. I do think his conviction was the correct verdict. The government's secret acts were wrong though, particularly regarding the issues in this case. It maybe gets a bit more hazy if it's a suspected terrorist plot. Some good acting in this one by the guests as well, including the water inspector and father of the suspect.

[balmz]

has there ever been an episode where adam, nora or arthur prosecuted a case instead of ben or jack doing it? is that even allowed?

was asking because of a sequal episode idea i had for the killerz episode

not sure how accurate or correct any  of this is legally and realistically but oh well

basically jenny is fully grown and kills another little boy in a very similar way to the first boy, the detectives investigate and van buren recognizes the   pattern and they discover it was jenny, she personally informs jack who is stunned but not surprised, they go to trial and jack decides to do the case himself instead of cutter or connie doing because he felt he had a duty to the mother of the first boy who was killed, we learn that the mother of the first boy who was killed by jenny committed suicide a few months after his death since her son's killer just basically walked from a murder charge and jack felt bad that he didn't get justice for the boy and her

jack is unable for whatever reason to use jenny's first murder in the trial(maybe the records are sealed due to her being a minor or whatever) so he just decides to his best in court

jenny's defense tries a mental defect defense(remember in the first episode they mentioned she was in a car accident and they thought she might have brain damage, if you have read about rl cases of brain damage you'd be surprised and horrified to learn how some brain damage can turn gentle souls into terrifying people)

the case goes to trial and both sides present their case, it looks like the case could go either way, jack then offers man 1 with her doing the max in a pysch ward but she refuses

then either the defense or jenny slip up and screw up in a way that allows her first murder evidence to be introduced in trial or alternately jack just does a good enough job in court

jenny is then convicted of murder and when she hears the verdict, she goes ballastic and it takes 4 court officers to remove her, all the time she goes on a huge anger filled rant(remember in the first episode the one babysitter said she had a temper and was always getting in fights at school)

like my idea?

i'd also fix some issues like how strange it was that  Olivet was compassionate for jenny, she would appear in the episode and jack chews her out for supporting jenny,  one idea to make it tolerable her behavior was that she had worked with similar kids with issues, though none of them had killed anyone and she had managed to treat them well enough that they weren't a threat anymore even as adults and she thought maybe jenny could be treated, and she  didn't realize that jenny's issues were far deeper then the other kids even though those kids had issues as well

[GHScorpiosRule]

40 minutes ago, balmz said:

has there ever been an episode where adam, nora or arthur prosecuted a case instead of ben or jack doing it? is that even allowed?

As to your first question, no. The position of the District Attorney is a political one--remember, they're elected to that position. I suppose it could be allowed, as I think I've read if the case is a high profile case. But it's the assistant district attorneys who actually prosecute. But I haven't checked to see if they actually can. Just Google.

[wknt3]

5 hours ago, balmz said:

has there ever been an episode where adam, nora or arthur prosecuted a case instead of ben or jack doing it? is that even allowed?

I don't think I have much of value to say about the creative aspects of your idea, but as far as this question is concerned I can answer. In the state of New York the DA is allowed to prosecute cases themselves. In larger counties (think the Buffalo, Albany or Yonkers metro areas) this is rare, usually reserved for cases such as the murder of a police officer, or other high profile vicious crimes, and sometimes for exceptionally politically sensitive cases such as public corruption cases. I don't know if there any explicit policy for the Manhattan DA's office but I'd imagine that it never happens just because it's such a large operation that it would be practically impossible to handle managing the office and a trial at the same time. As far as I can recall the only time we saw the DA in the courtroom as a participant (not an observer) was "Terminal" where Schiff argued before the appellate court (with Jack assisting) to challenge the governor's appointment of a special prosecutor.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I thought of “Terminal” as well, @wknt3, but since Adam wasn’t prosecuting a criminal case per se, I didn’t mention it.

And thanks for clarifying about the DA being able to prosecute in New York.

Now that I think of it, I think I remember the State’s Attorney here in Montgomery County, Maryland prosecuting a case. I can’t recall the case, but believe it was a high profile case.

[Xeliou66]

No there was never a case where the DA prosecuted the case, although Arthur threatened to in the season 13 episode Bitch, remember at the end when he told Jackie Scott he would return to the courtroom and prosecute her, she wound up taking the plea deal. Jack one time defended a motion as DA, in the episode Executioner regarding the charge against the execution doctor I believe, it’s been a while since I’ve seen that episode. Adam did go into court to sue the governor in Terminal and he did speak his case before the court, but that was a civil case. 

[Xeliou66]

I’m watched some season 15 episodes, and I have to say the more I watch them the more I find Fontana to be a pompous asshole, he was incredibly condescending and even aggressive towards people all of the time, even people they were just talking to during the course of their investigation. He was just way too abrasive and had borderline fascist views, he was probably the most dislikable main character in L&O history. While I like that they made Briscoe’s replacement totally different from Briscoe, and Fontana could be interesting, he just grates on me a lot of the time, when Falco filled in for Green and partnered with Fontana, those episodes were almost unbearable with how abrasive both were, whereas Green and Fontana had pretty good chemistry and Green’s smoothness balanced Fontana’s abrasiveness. I did like Fontana’s “we’re authorized” catchphrase. 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

I’m watched some season 15 episodes, and I have to say the more I watch them the more I find Fontana to be a pompous asshole, he was incredibly condescending and even aggressive towards people all of the time, even people they were just talking to during the course of their investigation. He was just way too abrasive and had borderline fascist views, he was probably the most dislikable main character in L&O history. While I like that they made Briscoe’s replacement totally different from Briscoe, and Fontana could be interesting, he just grates on me a lot of the time, when Falco filled in for Green and partnered with Fontana, those episodes were almost unbearable with how abrasive both were, whereas Green and Fontana had pretty good chemistry and Green’s smoothness balanced Fontana’s abrasiveness. I did like Fontana’s “we’re authorized” catchphrase. 

Your post above follows what I think is the majority opinion, but in watching season 15, episodes 9 and 10 on Bounce this morning, I was struck by the warmth and empathy Dennis Farina imbued into the character of Fontana towards victims, witnesses, and perps alike, although mostly to manipulate them into sharing information useful for the case. Lennie Briscoe/Jerry Orbach left shoes impossible to fill, but I thought I observed some stellar acting in Farina that brought out greater responses and efforts in the other actors in his scenes, notably even WRT Rohmbot. Maybe the difference between what I observed and what most see is because I am just watching these few episodes.

[balmz]

what are some of the most messed up episodes you can remember in the series?

two come to mind, smoked and grief

any other episodes you recall?

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, balmz said:

what are some of the most messed up episodes you can remember in the series?

two come to mind, smoked and grief

any other episodes you recall?

Venom with the mother son incest and all was a pretty messed up episode. Fools for Love was another disturbing, fucked up episode with the girl participating in the rape of her sister. 

[txhorns79]

13 hours ago, balmz said:

what are some of the most messed up episodes you can remember in the series?

The one where the Judge overturned the verdict of rape for the guys who had raped the mentally challenged girl at their school.  I vividly remember being shocked and horrified by how callous the Judge was, particularly with his: "She was having the time of her life!"comment about the victim being raped.  

[MarylandGirl]

17 hours ago, balmz said:

what are some of the most messed up episodes you can remember in the series?

two come to mind, smoked and grief

any other episodes you recall?

Season 10 had quite a few: Killerz, Patsy, and Loco Parentis all come to mind, along with the already mentioned Fools for Love.

Bodies from Season 14, partly because the killer is just so incredibly creepy and clearly a psychopath.

[Xeliou66]

Season 10 did have several dark episodes - I agree about Patsy being messed up, with the nutcase woman staging her own assault and putting herself in a coma to frame the guy she was obsessed with, I don’t consider Loco Parentis to be all that messed up though, but there were other dark episodes - Narcosis comes to mind, as does Killerz, there were some with frustrating-downer endings (Killerz, Merger, Entitled) and I think Fools For Love is the darkest, most disturbing episode of the Mothership.

Season 10 is arguably the darkest season of L&O, it’s also one of the best IMO and it has maybe my favorite lineup of characters with Briscoe/Green/Van Buren/McCoy/Carmichael/Schiff. There are also a lot of great episodes in season 10 and almost every episode is very good and compelling, the only season 10 episode that I consider to be subpar is Mega. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

I don't know if I could call this "messed up" but Season Three's "Prince of Darkness" was a dark and scary episode. How the drug cartel pretty much wiped out the entire family of Manuel Ortega then absconded with the orphan daughter. The last line was especially one that struck fear and was chilling. When Adam tells Paul and Ben that the girl's uncle came to the school to pick her up.

Quote

Adam: The gun dealer was in the yard at Riker's; had his throat cut. Buenaventura was strangled in the kitchen at Dannemora. And Manuel Ortega's mother fell out of a window.

Paul: What about the little girl?

Adam: She was picked up at school by her uncle.

Ben: She doesn't have an uncle.

Fade to black.

Then there was also that whack job, played by Mark Margolis, who gut shot Phil. A way for Sorvino to exit the show since the cold NY weather was affecting his voice (he sang opera).

[blondiec0332]

I watched Season 7 over the past couple weeks and just started season 8. Those are the Jamie Ross  years. I liked Jamie and thought these two seasons had some really good episodes.  One of my favorites is Mad Dog.  Burt Young is a rapist released from prison and McCoy hounds him until he gets caught raping again.

[shapeshifter]

Multi-tasking, but just caught a classic Lenny line ("Patriot" 12.2)

Quote

BRISCOE: I'm telling you, this guy wasn't just flying below the radar, he was off the screen 

It's at least 50% in the delivery of the lines.

Now back to your discussion in progress...

Edited December 17, 2019 by shapeshifter

[Xeliou66]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I don't know if I could call this "messed up" but Season Three's "Prince of Darkness" was a dark and scary episode. How the drug cartel pretty much wiped out the entire family of Manuel Ortega then absconded with the orphan daughter. The last line was especially one that struck fear and was chilling. When Adam tells Paul and Ben that the girl's uncle came to the school to pick her up.

Oh yes Prince of Darkness has one of the most chilling and memorable endings in L&O history, the look of horror on Schiff’s face after Stone said “she doesn’t have an uncle” said it all. An outstanding episode. 

Indifference and the follow up Fixed are pretty messed up episodes as well, because of what a sick piece of shit Jacob Lowenstein was, and the woman he was living with in Fixed who let Lowenstein live with her and her kids was a fucking loon as well. 

[txhorns79]

I've been watching Season 7 & 8 on WE.  There are two scenes during the seasons that just kill me.  When Adam's wife has the stroke, and he has to pull the plug, he lets out this little whimper as she lays before him dying.  Also, when Lennie finds Cathy dead on the pile of garbage and just falls apart, it's almost too much. 

[Xeliou66]

3 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I've been watching Season 7 & 8 on WE.  There are two scenes during the seasons that just kill me.  When Adam's wife has the stroke, and he has to pull the plug, he lets out this little whimper as she lays before him dying.  Also, when Lennie finds Cathy dead on the pile of garbage and just falls apart, it's almost too much. 

Schiff having to take his wife off of life support was probably the biggest tearjerker moment in L&O history, and Schiff’s facial expressions say it all without him ever uttering a word. 

7 hours ago, blondiec0332 said:

I watched Season 7 over the past couple weeks and just started season 8. Those are the Jamie Ross  years. I liked Jamie and thought these two seasons had some really good episodes.  One of my favorites is Mad Dog.  Burt Young is a rapist released from prison and McCoy hounds him until he gets caught raping again.

I liked Jamie Ross as well, and there are a lot of great episodes in those 2 seasons. I disliked the personal subplots in some season 8 episodes (Van Buren suing the department, Curtis’ wife’s illness, Schiff’s re-election, Briscoe’s daughter’s death) it was weird how season 8 had way more personal subplots than any other season of L&O and I was unsure why they did that, it was overboard and unlike L&O. There were a lot of great episodes in both of those seasons though, although I don’t care for Mad Dog, it was one of the few times I found a main character downright unlikable, McCoy really went overboard in that one.

[stonehaven]

There was a great Lenny line that I loved from some episode...

As he's arresting a group of teens in a lunch cafeteria, one of the punks said 

"Hey, what's my crime???"

Lennie says "For starters, mayo on corned beef for one"...

That made me fall out of my chair...

[balmz]

repost from my reddit account

 

what are some scenes or lines or parts in law & order episodes that are funny to you that shouldn't be?

 

one example that stands out to me is the scene in doped where the one guy, stricken by grief and horror for causing an accident that killed several people jams a pen in his neck and starts hemorrhaging and lupo and Bernard start yelling and trying to save him, something about the way Bernard yells during the scene and kicks down the door makes it unintentionally funny to me despite it being a very bloody scene

[Xeliou66]

On 12/19/2019 at 7:07 PM, balmz said:

repost from my reddit account

 

what are some scenes or lines or parts in law & order episodes that are funny to you that shouldn't be?

 

one example that stands out to me is the scene in doped where the one guy, stricken by grief and horror for causing an accident that killed several people jams a pen in his neck and starts hemorrhaging and lupo and Bernard start yelling and trying to save him, something about the way Bernard yells during the scene and kicks down the door makes it unintentionally funny to me despite it being a very bloody scene

One line that always makes me laugh from a dark and serious episode is in Hate when McCoy is cross examining the white supremacist and the white supremacist says he wants to elimate racial hatred and McCoy replies “by eliminating the other races?!”. Always makes me laugh despite the darkness of the topic. 

[txhorns79]

I just watched the episode, Juvenile, and it's so weird.  We find out the perp had been involved with her mother's boyfriend when the guy was in his 30s/40s and she was 15.  Everyone rightfully notes that is rape, right up until the boyfriend produces love letters the girl wrote him in prison, and claims she was trying to seduce him.  Amazingly, Jack and Carmichael appear to agree with this idea, even though, again, the girl was in her mid-teens when this was all happening.  I can't imagine that storyline flying today.   

[GHScorpiosRule]

9 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Amazingly, Jack and Carmichael appear to agree with this idea, even though, again, the girl was in her mid-teens when this was all happening.  I can't imagine that storyline flying today.   

It shouldn't have flown back when it aired. She was still a minor.

[Xeliou66]

I watched Phobia today, I really like this episode, intense, compelling episode. I thought McCoy did a great job prosecuting the case, his closing argument about how the adoptive parents were the ones who cared for the sick baby and how the defense was basically saying that their being gay and adopting the baby meant the victim deserved to die was really good, and I also liked how he got the homophobic asswipe defendant to explode and show his bigotry on the stand, and his move to call the victim’s partner to the stand to talk about caring for the baby was good as well.

I thought the defense lawyer was homophobic just like her client based on the way she talked, I really didn’t like her. 

The investigation stuff with Briscoe and Green was good as well, and Van Buren had some nice moments also.

I thought Celia got off easy, she didn’t participate in the murder but she was the one who got her ex boyfriend to kidnap the kid, she belonged in prison but apparently she avoided prison, and I thought she had a lot of nerve to approach the victim’s partner outside of the courtroom, does anyone else think she should’ve gone to prison? 

Great episode all around. 

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I watched Phobia today, I really like this episode, intense, compelling episode. I thought McCoy did a great job prosecuting the case, his closing argument about how the adoptive parents were the ones who cared for the sick baby and how the defense was basically saying that their being gay and adopting the baby meant the victim deserved to die was really good, and I also liked how he got the homophobic asswipe defendant to explode and show his bigotry on the stand, and his move to call the victim’s partner to the stand to talk about caring for the baby was good as well.

I thought the defense lawyer was homophobic just like her client based on the way she talked, I really didn’t like her. 

The investigation stuff with Briscoe and Green was good as well, and Van Buren had some nice moments also.

I thought Celia got off easy, she didn’t participate in the murder but she was the one who got her ex boyfriend to kidnap the kid, she belonged in prison but apparently she avoided prison, and I thought she had a lot of nerve to approach the victim’s partner outside of the courtroom, does anyone else think she should’ve gone to prison? 

Great episode all around. 

I liked that episode too. I agree Celia got off way to easy. Maybe she didn't anticipate the murder but I'm not entirely sure. She knew her ex enough to know what he'd do when he heard the adoptive parents were gay.  She went to him because of that specific reason.

[Xeliou66]

19 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I liked that episode too. I agree Celia got off way to easy. Maybe she didn't anticipate the murder but I'm not entirely sure. She knew her ex enough to know what he'd do when he heard the adoptive parents were gay.  She went to him because of that specific reason.

Yes, Celia planned the kidnapping and went to her ex knowing her ex would help her kidnap the baby because of his homophobia, she may not have known her ex would murder one of the adoptive parents and she didn’t participate in the murder, but she planned the kidnapping and as a result of the kidnapping someone died, Celia should’ve been charged with murder and spent time in prison. She got off remarkably easy, and the adoptive father should never let her have anything to do with the kid given her actions.

Nora was barely in that episode, she was such a dull character that added nothing to the show, zero spark to her scenes. 

I really didn’t like the defendant’s lawyer, she seemed like a homophobe herself, and I thought McCoy did a great job countering her arguments, his closing in Phobia was great.

Edited January 18, 2020 by Xeliou66

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes, Celia planned the kidnapping and went to her ex knowing her ex would help her kidnap the baby because of his homophobia, she may not have known her ex would murder one of the adoptive parents and she didn’t participate in the murder, but she planned the kidnapping and as a result of the kidnapping someone died, Celia should’ve been charged with murder and spent time in prison. She got off remarkably easy, and the adoptive father should never let her have anything to do with the kid given her actions.

Nora was barely in that episode, she was such a dull character that added nothing to the show, zero spark to her scenes. 

I really didn’t like the defendant’s lawyer, she seemed like a homophobe herself, and I thought McCoy did a great job countering her arguments, his closing in Phobia was great.

Yeah, that's exactly why I think she should have been charged too. None of it would have happened without her. She started it all by wanting the baby back and didn't care how it happened. The man ended up dead she is just as responsible as her ex. I hope the adoptive father keeps the kid far away from her.  I think the defense lawyer was too. She did too good of a job coming off as homophobe for it to be just an act or trying to defend her client. I did like McCoy countering her stupid arguments and his closing statement was really good.

[Spartan Girl]

Word on Celia. No sympathy for her wanting her child back, her actions proved she was a selfish bitch that shouldn't be anywhere near a child. And I loathe how the defense attorney acted like she and her ex were more entitled to have the child than the stable loving foster/adoptive parents. Like being straight and blood related automatically makes you more fit to raise a child. 

[balmz]

here's a fun question i thought, ben, jack and cutter all had different styles of doing cases so here's a thought, how do you think they would have handled certain cases if they had them 

 

some cases at random

 

cases from ben's time . asylum, born bad, prescription for death and american dream

 

cases from jack's time, Darwinian, killerz, rage and flight

 

cases from cutter's time. human flesh search engine, rumble, reality bites and rubber room

Edited January 22, 2020 by balmz

[Xeliou66]

It is interesting to think about how the different ADA’s would’ve handled different cases - for example Stone never would’ve done some of the more underhanded things that McCoy and Cutter did, a couple of examples I thought of being McCoy staging sham prosecutions in Shadow and Invaders, getting the kidnapper/victim’s mother to lie about what her son told her in Bitter Fruit and rigging the lineup in DWB. While McCoy never had anyone lie or present false evidence under oath and never did anything illegal, I still don’t think Stone would’ve done those things in the first place given how by the book and extremely ethical Stone was. I thought Cutter stooped very low a couple of times, the worst being when he tricked the mentally ill killer into attacking him by pretending to be a Russian asset in Skate or Die, I don’t think any other ADA would’ve done that and I thought McCoy should’ve come down harder on Cutter for that stunt. 

It’s also interesting to think about how the different DA’s (Schiff, Lewin, Branch and McCoy) had different styles of handling things - McCoy hated the politics of the job for the most part, Schiff was mindful of it but didn’t let it dictate how he did his job and didn’t seem to care about hanging out with the elite despite how many people in high places he knew, Nora seemed more concerned with the politics, while Branch seemed to like the political aspects of the job and enjoyed rubbing elbows with the elite and was never afraid to exercise his authority either, whereas Nora never seemed to exercise her authority. Branch would’ve had no problem seeking harsh sentences in cases where Nora didn’t want to, Nora never seemed to have any real power, she seemed like a soft character. Schiff and McCoy had the best balance of sometimes exercising their power and sometimes letting the people under them do what they wanted, Branch all too often ordered them around IMO while Nora never exercised her powers. 

It’s a very interesting discussion to have about how the different prosecutors would’ve handled stuff. 

[Xeliou66]

I saw Compassion today and I have to say I think that McCoy went too soft on the doctor who poisoned the con artist. I didn’t buy her act about believing she could speak to the dead and all, I think she killed the con artist for revenge, yes her work with dying kids had taken a toll on her but she knew right from wrong IMO, Skoda was right in his assessment of her. I wonder what the jury’s verdict would’ve been, but I think she should’ve been found guilty.

I love Briscoe’s line about the fake psychic victim who they couldn’t find out much about “if he wasn’t dead I’d hire him to talk to himself”. One of Briscoe’s best one liners. 

I also liked Branch’s comment at the end about McCoy making a deal “sometimes the good you do doesn’t alwyas do you any good”. He was right and I think McCoy went too soft on her.

[GHScorpiosRule]

20 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I saw Compassion today and I have to say I think that McCoy went too soft on the doctor who poisoned the con artist. I didn’t buy her act about believing she could speak to the dead and all, I think she killed the con artist for revenge, yes her work with dying kids had taken a toll on her but she knew right from wrong IMO, Skoda was right in his assessment of her. I wonder what the jury’s verdict would’ve been, but I think she should’ve been found guilty.

I love Briscoe’s line about the fake psychic victim who they couldn’t find out much about “if he wasn’t dead I’d hire him to talk to himself”. One of Briscoe’s best one liners. 

I also liked Branch’s comment at the end about McCoy making a deal “sometimes the good you do doesn’t alwyas do you any good”. He was right and I think McCoy went too soft on her.

It's really odd when Jack chooses not to go for the jugular in certain cases. If it has to do with Vietnam, he will look for reasons not to prosecute; he always seems to have the standard line about "you had to be there" or that "it was the 60s" or some such. Sometimes, when it has to do with AIDS, he'll go after the killer aggressively. Like, what'shisface, in season 7? Season 8? Dude that was infecting every one he could with AIDS by refusing to wear a condom and going "bareback?" Yet here , because the doctor was in so much paaaaaaaaaiiiin, he didn't prosecute aggressively.

[balmz]

22 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

It's really odd when Jack chooses not to go for the jugular in certain cases. If it has to do with Vietnam, he will look for reasons not to prosecute; he always seems to have the standard line about "you had to be there" or that "it was the 60s" or some such. Sometimes, when it has to do with AIDS, he'll go after the killer aggressively. Like, what'shisface, in season 7? Season 8? Dude that was infecting every one he could with AIDS by refusing to wear a condom and going "bareback?" Yet here , because the doctor was in so much paaaaaaaaaiiiin, he didn't prosecute aggressively.

well to be fair, the guy in carrier was a real monster, infecting people and making jokes about it and wanting to infect as many people as he could

 

the woman in compassion was doctor who killed a career con artist, not that it makes it right  or ok but i may have too much personal history to be objective,

 

my father was friends with a doctor in college who worked with terminally ill people, the doctor himself went off the deep end from just a year of working with them and committed suicide, the job type is not an easy one, my dad said that his friend said if you work that type of job, prepare to literally feel your soul start to die when you are working with people that you most likely can't save, he didn't know that was really a thing and not just a  saying

[Xeliou66]

Yeah the guy in Carrier was a monster. 

I just thought Jack went easy on the doctor in Compassion - I didn’t buy her crazy act at all, while I think her work had taken a tremendous toll and she probably wouldn’t have killed if she wasn’t overwhelmed by it all, I thought she was sane and killed for revenge, not because she believed she was sending him to a better place or believed she could communicate with the dead. Skoda was spot on IMO in his analysis of her and I don’t think McCoy should’ve let her go to a psychiatric facility where she would probably be released in no time. Arthur was right at the end telling him not to make having compassion like that a habit, a prosecutor can’t let defendants backstories get to them. I do like the episode a lot, like I’ve said before, almost any Briscoe/Green episode is very good.

The only time I remember McCoy not wanting to go overly hard regarding political protesters was in White Rabbit regarding the woman who was anti Vietnam and who was complicit in robbing the armored car and killing the guard. I understood his sympathy for her and I was satisfied with the outcome of her plea agreement, she belonged in prison for her role in the crime but I found her somewhat sympathetic and I didn’t think McCoy went overly soft on her. 

[andromeda331]

10 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah the guy in Carrier was a monster. 

I just thought Jack went easy on the doctor in Compassion - I didn’t buy her crazy act at all, while I think her work had taken a tremendous toll and she probably wouldn’t have killed if she wasn’t overwhelmed by it all, I thought she was sane and killed for revenge, not because she believed she was sending him to a better place or believed she could communicate with the dead. Skoda was spot on IMO in his analysis of her and I don’t think McCoy should’ve let her go to a psychiatric facility where she would probably be released in no time. Arthur was right at the end telling him not to make having compassion like that a habit, a prosecutor can’t let defendants backstories get to them. I do like the episode a lot, like I’ve said before, almost any Briscoe/Green episode is very good.

The only time I remember McCoy not wanting to go overly hard regarding political protesters was in White Rabbit regarding the woman who was anti Vietnam and who was complicit in robbing the armored car and killing the guard. I understood his sympathy for her and I was satisfied with the outcome of her plea agreement, she belonged in prison for her role in the crime but I found her somewhat sympathetic and I didn’t think McCoy went overly soft on her. 

Yeah that guy in Carrier was a monster. Deliberately infecting as many women as he could? That's horrible. I'm more surprised he didn't end up shot by one of his victims for that one. I agreed with Dr. Skoda's analysis of the doctor. She wasn't crazy or anything but the job she that had such a high level of deaths. I think one of her co-doctors mention they usually try to find something else or a way to deal with the pain or take their mind off of it but she didn't. Its not hard to see how seeing children dying so often would effect you. The problem with shipping people off to mental hospitals is so many times there's not much to keep them in. I wish Jack had countered with what they usually do with two doctors of their choosing to decide if she was fixed like they did with other defendants. They really should have used that on every one of them. 

I really didn't find the woman in White Rabbit sympathetic. She was anti-Vietnam. Okay, fine. But how exactly was robbing an arm truck going to do anything? What was that going to accomplish? Or killing the poor guard who was just doing his job. I do like she did end up going jail for her crime. It doesn't annoy me as much as Jack willing to go so easy on her until the guard's widow shows up to show him a picture. She was exactly right. Whatever Susan's intentions were she still took part in a crime where someone was killed. Where's justice for him? Jack never had a problem seeing that part no matter how sympathetic the criminal maybe. 

Edited January 28, 2020 by andromeda331

[txhorns79]

6 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

 

I just thought Jack went easy on the doctor in Compassion - I didn’t buy her crazy act at all, while I think her work had taken a tremendous toll and she probably wouldn’t have killed if she wasn’t overwhelmed by it all, I thought she was sane and killed for revenge, not because she believed she was sending him to a better place or believed she could communicate with the dead. Skoda was spot on IMO in his analysis of her and I don’t think McCoy should’ve let her go to a psychiatric facility where she would probably be released in no time. Arthur was right at the end telling him not to make having compassion like that a habit, a prosecutor can’t let defendants backstories get to them. I do like the episode a lot, like I’ve said before, almost any Briscoe/Green episode is very good.

I don't do criminal law, so I am not entirely certain how a claim of diminished capacity works, particularly in a case where they seemed to be arguing her diminished capacity was ongoing, but I would think if you put your client on the stand to testify under oath, you are essentially giving up the ghost.  You can't claim someone is lacking the capacity to form intent, while simultaneously saying they are competent to testify.    

[Spartan Girl]

The guy in "Carrier" was a monster but his useless parents were worse. They knew what he'd done and did nothing to stop him, wouldn't cooperate with the DA, risking more lives because they couldn't stand the thought of their son hating them. Fuck them. Anyone who infects women with AIDS on purpose is an irredeemable monster. I hope he suffered to his last breath.

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

The guy in "Carrier" was a monster but his useless parents were worse. They knew what he'd done and did nothing to stop him, wouldn't cooperate with the DA, risking more lives because they couldn't stand the thought of their son hating them. Fuck them. Anyone who infects women with AIDS on purpose is an irredeemable monster. I hope he suffered to his last breath.

Oh, definitely, so they couldn't live with their son hating them but they could live with knowing he was out there infecting other women with AIDS making sure as many women as he could died the same horrible death he did? You know most people would have a hard time living with the latter. Maybe the apple didn't fall far from the tree. 

Edited January 28, 2020 by andromeda331

[balmz]

while we are on the topic of con artists and scumbags, how about the guy in fluency who sold fake vaccines and caused several deaths as a result? the ending scene when he is sentenced to over 200 years is one of my favorite scenes, it's one of my favorite later season episodes

[Xeliou66]

I watched God Bless the Child, this is a great early season episode, very straightforward but very good, I especially liked the courtroom stuff and Stone’s arguments, I loved his line about how the parents could martyr themselves for their religion but they had no right to martyr their child. I hated those parents, letting their child die because of their religious beliefs was despicable, I was glad the jury convicted them. The courtroom scenes in this episode were very good and I really liked Stone’s arguments.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Just now, Xeliou66 said:

I hated those parents, letting their child die because of their religious beliefs was despicable, I was glad the jury convicted them.

This is also one of my favorites. What makes them worse is that they let their first child die as well.

[txhorns79]

I watched the episode "Falling," and Cutter was out of control.  The episode itself was a little scattershot in that it took a long time to settle on a plot, but it was a little disturbing at how much Cutter wanted to use his office to interfere in the suspect's parenting decisions.  I was honestly a little surprised that McCoy didn't reign him back in long before he tried to tack illegal items onto the plea agreement. 

[wknt3]

‘Law & Order’ Finally Set for Streaming Debut on NBCUniversal’s Peacock

 

Quote

Ch-ching! The original “Law & Order” is finally make its streaming debut later this year on NBCUniversal’s Peacock.

The deal between producer Dick Wolf and NBCU calls for six Wolf Entertainment series to be made available on Peacock. The pact covers more than 1,000 episodes of “Law & Order” plus spinoffs “Law & Order: SVU” and “Law & Order: Criminal Intent,” as well as Wolf’s trilogy of Chicago-set dramas for NBC: “Chicago: Fire,” “Chicago: P.D.” and “Chicago: Med.”

The shows are not exclusive to Peacock. The mothership “Law & Order” series, which aired on NBC from 1990 to 2010, will not offer all 456 episodes at the outset, probably because rights are tied up in pre-existing deals. But Peacock will be the first to offer the three core “L&O” series in one place.

Hopefully we will get the uncensored original broadcast versions. And they eventually add the other spinoffs that aren't rerun all the time already.

[txhorns79]

4 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

Hopefully we will get the uncensored original broadcast versions. And they eventually add the other spinoffs that aren't rerun all the time already.

L&O: Trial by Jury and L&O: Los Angeles are already available via NBC's app.  I'm not sure if Conviction is available on that app. 

[WendyCR72]

So I had the SiriusXM site open and noticed on Bruce Springsteen's channel a song called "New York City Serenade" by Jill Hennessy. Looked it up and it is indeed the former Claire Kincaid herself. 

Guess she's concentrating on a music career now.