Law & Order Discussion Topic (2019 - 2021)

[GHScorpiosRule]

@Xeliou66 and  @WendyCR72 I’m DISAPPOINTED in you!!! Why didn’t you tell me that Sundance was airing season 1???!!!

I’m at my sister’s and she has that channel and “The Violence of Summer” is on!!!!

I thought you wuz my friends!!!!🤪🤪🤪

[WendyCR72]

Just now, GHScorpiosRule said:

@Xeliou66 and  @WendyCR72 I’m DISAPPOINTED in you!!! Why didn’t you tell me that Sundance was airing season 1???!!!

I’m at my sister’s and she has that channel and “The Violence of Summer” is on!!!!

I thought you wuz my friends!!!!🤪🤪🤪

I didn't have the TV on and have missed it on there [Sundance] lately (because the real late stuff I'm meh on, and the channel kept repeating it!), so I had no idea either.  😛 So we're even!

[Xeliou66]

They are skipping around episodes on Sundance today, they started with a couple of season 1, now they are on to season 2 and the upcoming episodes schedule shows that they are jumping around a lot.

[balmz]

1 hour ago, Waterston Fan said:

Was Jack the ADA or Mike or Ben? 

i believe it was jack

[GHScorpiosRule]

25 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

They are skipping around episodes on Sundance today, they started with a couple of season 1, now they are on to season 2 and the upcoming episodes schedule shows that they are jumping around a lot.

Fourth of July is the reason.

[GHScorpiosRule]

“Manhood” is on now. I hate it and love it. The ONE TIME I wish the jury would have done the right thing. Especially after listening to the 911 call.

[FormerMod-a1]

Ugh,  Aftershock is on now.  SKIP!  I'll be watching Chopped instead.  

[Spartan Girl]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

“Manhood” is on now. I hate it and love it. The ONE TIME I wish the jury would have done the right thing. Especially after listening to the 911 call.

Yup. Although to be fair, there were lots of episodes when I thought the jury made the wrong call...

[Spartan Girl]

"School Daze" is on, and once again, I'd like to say that while it seems that Abbie was too harsh on the school shooter's idiot enabling useless parents, I think she was well in the right. This wasn't just a case of a bullied kid snapping, the boy had been thrown out of THREE OTHER SCHOOLS beforehand for violent incidents, and for all their mewling about how he "needed help" it didn't look they did much to get him before he killed a bunch of his classmates.

[Waterston Fan]

McCoy v. Cutter

Ladies and Gentleman..... get ready to rumble!! 

[catlover79]

On 7/4/2019 at 9:03 PM, aquarian1 said:

Ugh,  Aftershock is on now.  SKIP!  I'll be watching Chopped instead.  

I don't blame you! 😂

[shapeshifter]

The cold open end line of 11.24 "Deep Vote" completely encapsulates my post-chemo, post-retirement philosophy of life:
[GREENE]: You could spend your whole life fighting traffic in this town.
[LENNIE]: Yeah. And then you die.

[FormerMod-a1]

I really enjoyed yesterday's (actually, I think all weekend) WE marathon of early L&O - all the Stone & Robinette goodness.  

[shapeshifter]

I just saw 12.1 "Who Let the Dogs Out?" for the first time, which is the first appearance of Elisabeth Röhm as Serena Southerlyn.
Wow. Her character was an obnoxious loose canon from the beginning. 
Having seen her last episode I can't help cringing as I imagine Röhm asking if this characterization was "because I'm a lesbian?"
#double_cringe
Or was her final line a retcon?

[MarylandGirl]

8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I just saw 12.1 "Who Let the Dogs Out?" for the first time, which is the first appearance of Elisabeth Röhm as Serena Southerlyn.
Wow. Her character was an obnoxious loose canon from the beginning. 
Having seen her last episode I can't help cringing as I imagine Röhm asking if this characterization was "because I'm a lesbian?"
#double_cringe
Or was her final line a retcon?

I get the sense it was a retcon. If I recall correctly, there was even an episode earlier in her tenure that was about LGBTQ rights, and when I watched it later, knowing what happened, I figured there would have been some hints in there, like her being particularly passionate about it. But nope, nothing jumped out.

[Xeliou66]

8 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

I really enjoyed yesterday's (actually, I think all weekend) WE marathon of early L&O - all the Stone & Robinette goodness.  

I’ve been enjoying the early seasons as well, I really like the characters in the early years, and there are a lot of really good episodes, Stone and Robinette are great.

17 minutes ago, MarylandGirl said:

I get the sense it was a retcon. If I recall correctly, there was even an episode earlier in her tenure that was about LGBTQ rights, and when I watched it later, knowing what happened, I figured there would have been some hints in there, like her being particularly passionate about it. But nope, nothing jumped out.

There were hints about Serena being a lesbian IMO, she was very passionate about gay rights issues, there were several examples of this, such as the episodes Married With Children and Gov Love, and in the episode Asterisk where she went to the magazine that did profiles of gay celebs and the guy thought she was there to try to get them to do a profile on her. So the reveal wasn’t totally out of left field IMO, but it was done in such an awkward, out of left field way that it made it laughable. 

Edited July 9, 2019 by Xeliou66

[wknt3]

9 hours ago, MarylandGirl said:

I get the sense it was a retcon. If I recall correctly, there was even an episode earlier in her tenure that was about LGBTQ rights, and when I watched it later, knowing what happened, I figured there would have been some hints in there, like her being particularly passionate about it. But nope, nothing jumped out.

9 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

There were hints about Serena being a lesbian IMO, she was very passionate about gay rights issues, there were several examples of this, such as the episodes Married With Children and Gov Love, and in the episode Asterisk where she went to the magazine that did profiles of gay celebs and the guy thought she was there to try to get them to do a profile on her. So the reveal wasn’t totally out of left field IMO, but it was done in such an awkward, out of left field way that it made it laughable. 

Agreed. It don't think it was a retcon. It might seem like it since the Rohmbot is not in the same class as Sam Waterston and Jill Hennessy and the writing wasn't as good as those earlier seasons so there wasn't the same sense after the reveal that it had been there all along. I think they did try to show her as particulatry passionate about gay rights, but simply didn't pull it off. I definitely don't remember anything to explicitly contradict it, which probably would be there if it was a retcon. So I put down the sense that it was pulled out of nowhere to the clumsiness of the "shocking" reveal and the fact that Rohm is incapable of nuance.

[Waterston Fan]

Mike to Jack..... Stay, watch, and learn.

Jack to Mike.... I stayed. I watched. What was I supposed to learn? 

Jack sweetie, Mike just got owned, that's what you learned. 😂

Edited July 9, 2019 by Waterston Fan

[MarylandGirl]

On 7/8/2019 at 1:14 PM, aquarian1 said:

I really enjoyed yesterday's (actually, I think all weekend) WE marathon of early L&O - all the Stone & Robinette goodness.  

I DVRed them and am just now getting through them. I'm even finding I kind of like Greevey? I am amused by some of the dramatic use of music in the first season though.

[Tdoc72]

On 6/10/2019 at 1:42 PM, Waterston Fan said:

The cops break in to a guy's apartment who was sleeping in his underwear. Is society getting so sensitive that the network has to blur the guy's genitals with his underwear on? Really? I don't know if Sundance would do that but the network I am watching is WE. 

So, I bet they won't blur a woman's chest while she has her bra on, I bet. 

WE did!  Logan and Briscoe went to a strip club to talk to a witness and they blurred her bra. It  was weird and noticeable.  I don’t remember the name, but the one where the mother kills her drug addicted daughter. 

**Mother Love, season 3, episode 15.

Fun fact: A very young Edie Falco was the defense attorney. 

Edited July 11, 2019 by Tdoc72
found title

[Tdoc72]

Been laid up for a month w/a bad leg and been watching a lot of old school Law & Order. 

I miss the end cards that explained a little of what happened after the ‘Law’ part had finished. I don’t think many episodes had them, but I find them interesting. 

[wknt3]

I'm getting ready to go out of town for a couple weeks so I was adjusting my series recordings so I don't lose anything new or have more shows recorded than I'll ever have time to get caught up on. It really made me wish that whoever designed the user interface worked at NBC a decade ago...

Edited July 12, 2019 by wknt3

[shapeshifter]

This week on Elementary there was a baby formula plot.
Wasn't there a baby formula pyramid scheme on one of the L&O shows?

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

This week on Elementary there was a baby formula plot.
Wasn't there a baby formula pyramid scheme on one of the L&O shows?

Season 10: "Mother's Milk." Where if you didn't breastfeed, you were EVUHL and UNFIT to be a mother. That rage-inducing plot point aside, the defendant was still UBERLY STOOPID and I will never feel sorry for her because she had SUPPORT. She had her MOTHER that she could turn to, but let her baby die, instead.

[shapeshifter]

38 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

45 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

This week on Elementary there was a baby formula plot.
Wasn't there a baby formula pyramid scheme on one of the L&O shows?

Season 10: "Mother's Milk." Where if you didn't breastfeed, you were EVUHL and UNFIT to be a mother. That rage-inducing plot point aside, the defendant was still UBERLY STOOPID and I will never feel sorry for her because she had SUPPORT. She had her MOTHER that she could turn to, but let her baby die, instead.

Yeah, not that one. The episode I'm thinking of has a pyramid scheme to sell baby formula. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

21 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Yeah, not that one. The episode I'm thinking of has a pyramid scheme to sell baby formula. 

Ohhh. That was Season six, I think? “Sick” where the nanny was charged with poisoning the baby, but it was his older half-brother who did it. Patti Lupone’s Ruthie Miller was the nanny’s, oops, I mean au pair’s lawyer.

[balmz]

13 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Ohhh. That was Season six, I think? “Sick” where the nanny was charged with poisoning the baby, but it was his older half-brother who did it. Patti Lupone’s Ruthie Miller was the nanny’s, oops, I mean au pair’s lawyer.

the episode was homesick

[wknt3]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Yeah, not that one. The episode I'm thinking of has a pyramid scheme to sell baby formula. 

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Ohhh. That was Season six, I think? “Sick” where the nanny was charged with poisoning the baby, but it was his older half-brother who did it. Patti Lupone’s Ruthie Miller was the nanny’s, oops, I mean au pair’s lawyer.

But that didn't involve any sort of pyramid scheme, just poisoning baby food. (Although you could say the whole upscale organic baby food market is a scam to get suckers to buy in...) The only franchise episode I can think of involving a scheme to sell baby formula was SVU;s "Risk" where they were using baby formula to smuggle cocaine. I can think of multiple episodes involving pyramid schemes and multiple episodes involving baby formula, but none that combine the two.

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 hours ago, wknt3 said:

But that didn't involve any sort of pyramid scheme, just poisoning baby food. (Although you could say the whole upscale organic baby food market is a scam to get suckers to buy in...) The only franchise episode I can think of involving a scheme to sell baby formula was SVU;s "Risk" where they were using baby formula to smuggle cocaine. I can think of multiple episodes involving pyramid schemes and multiple episodes involving baby formula, but none that combine the two.

The only episode I can think of that dealt with baby food formula is the Season 4 finale, which resulted in Stone's resigning. "Old Friends." That was why her partner was murdered--he figured something out about the baby food, and told his wife to ditch the rest they had? But that one dealt with the mob, so...I don't know if the mothership ever did an out and out pyramid scheme.

Edited July 12, 2019 by GHScorpiosRule

[shapeshifter]

Thanks, @GHScorpiosRule, @balmz, and @wknt3. After spending too much time reading episode summaries and closed captioning scripts, I did some more Googling and realized that there was a real life baby formula pyramid scheme crime: nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/02/magazine/money-issue-baby-formula-crime-ring.html

Either I confused reading the NY Times story with watching one or more of the above mentioned episodes, or there is another episode based on this true crime story. 

[andromeda331]

13 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

The only episode I can think of that dealt with baby food formula is the Season 4 finale, which resulted in Stone's resigning. "Old Friends." That was why her partner was murdered--he figured something out about the baby food, and told his wife to ditch the rest they had? But that one dealt with the mob, so...I don't know if the mothership ever did an out and out pyramid scheme.

I still hate that that's the episode that they had Stone exit on. There were so many much better ones that season. I know I say this every time but I really hate how the woman keeps acting like if she doesn't testify then she won't die and no one corrects her on it. It really bugs me that no one corrected her on that and seemed to agree with her when she was killed. That if only they didn't make her testify she'd still be alive. Ah no she wouldn't. Whether she testified or not there was no way the mob was going to leave her alone. She was a liability and they would kill her or at least keep trying. Her only chance at staying alive was testifying and going into Witness Protection.   

[Xeliou66]

I didn’t think Stone’s exit was bad, but I think a better exit for Stone would’ve been in the episode Sanctuary, Stone was very upset when Schiff decided not to retry the guy who killed the motorist in the riot, and I think it would’ve been a better exit for Stone if he had decided to resign in protest, it would’ve been very in character for Stone to do that, he had a strong dedication to the law and a strong moral code, and he seemed upset by the entire case, and it would’ve been a fitting exit for him if he had decided to leave because of his disappointment with Schiff’s decision. I didn’t find Stone’s actual exit to be bad, but I thought Sanctuary would’ve been a better exit for Stone than Old Friends.

[Waterston Fan]

Watchin' We with season 19. So far I am liking this season and sometimes got some laughs out of it because of Cutter. 

Just watched Reality Bites where a husband is accused of killing his wife over a reality TV show. 

Could you see a lawyer making sure a potential witness is not available to testify if the prosecution wants to call him? 

Connie being stupid didn't cover up her notebook and when they were going to call the loan shark dude, Silver to testify, he disappears. 

I kinda wonder if it was Silver who committed the murder and not Larry Johnson. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 minutes ago, Waterston Fan said:

Could you see a lawyer making sure a potential witness is not available to testify if the prosecution wants to call him? 

Happens in real life all the time these days.

[andromeda331]

10 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I didn’t think Stone’s exit was bad, but I think a better exit for Stone would’ve been in the episode Sanctuary, Stone was very upset when Schiff decided not to retry the guy who killed the motorist in the riot, and I think it would’ve been a better exit for Stone if he had decided to resign in protest, it would’ve been very in character for Stone to do that, he had a strong dedication to the law and a strong moral code, and he seemed upset by the entire case, and it would’ve been a fitting exit for him if he had decided to leave because of his disappointment with Schiff’s decision. I didn’t find Stone’s actual exit to be bad, but I thought Sanctuary would’ve been a better exit for Stone than Old Friends.

Sanctuary would have been the perfect episode for Stone to leave. It made so much more sense and he was really upset with Schiff. 

[Waterston Fan]

Is it me or do we see more of Jack as the DA than we have when it was Adam, Nora and Arthur? 

Loving Jack as the DA so far. 

[Xeliou66]

Yes Jack took on a more active role as DA and was in more scenes than Adam, Nora and Arthur. 

I love Jack as the DA as well, it was interesting seeing him a new role. I love the last couple of seasons, the stories were very good and the characters had great chemistry.

Edited July 15, 2019 by Xeliou66

[wknt3]

17 hours ago, Waterston Fan said:

Is it me or do we see more of Jack as the DA than we have when it was Adam, Nora and Arthur? 

Loving Jack as the DA so far. 

15 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes Jack took on a more active role as DA and was in more scenes than Adam, Nora and Arthur. 

I love Jack as the DA as well, it was interesting seeing him a new role. I love the last couple of seasons, the stories were very good and the characters had great chemistry.

I've said before that the big difference between Jack and his predecessors was that he was the lead while his predecessors were supporting players. He was more hands on, ehich is certainly in character, but we also saw more of the political side than ever before.I agree that it was great. They managed to change things up a bit while keeping the face of the franchise front and center. Sadly the franchise forgot how to do it the next time they wanted to promote a lead character to a position that had been a supporting role...

[Xeliou66]

5 hours ago, wknt3 said:

I've said before that the big difference between Jack and his predecessors was that he was the lead while his predecessors were supporting players. He was more hands on, ehich is certainly in character, but we also saw more of the political side than ever before.I agree that it was great. They managed to change things up a bit while keeping the face of the franchise front and center. Sadly the franchise forgot how to do it the next time they wanted to promote a lead character to a position that had been a supporting role...

McCoy may have still been the face of the franchise, but he wasn’t the lead character anymore when he became DA, he wasn’t in as many scenes as Cutter/Rubirosa were, so he wasn’t always front and center, he had a larger role than previous DA’s but he wasn’t in the most scenes. Whereas on SVU when they promoted Benson, she is still in more scenes than anyone else and is always front and center.

[catlover79]

6 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Whereas on SVU when they promoted Benson, she is still in more scenes than anyone else and is always front and center.

Sad but true!!

[shapeshifter]

"Equal rights" 12.18 aired, in which an educated woman is battered by her husband for many years. The husband was also kind of a Bernie Madoff, getting friends and family to invest in stocks that were tanking, resulting him profitting millions while they lost their life savings--including his wife's sister's husband. The battered wife doesn't tell her brother-in-law about the scheme until the brother-in-law has lost everything, which makes the brother-in-law angry, and which makes it easier for the brother-in-law to agree to kill the wife-beating, swindling husband, especially when the wife offers the now-broke brother-in-law part of the million dollar life insurance payout on the dead husband. They get caught, but there are graphic pictures of the beaten wife's bruises, and she claims he threatened to kill her. So the jury finds her not guilty of conspiring to kill him (the brother-in-law is not so lucky). 

What I liked was the last line, spoken by Jack:

[SERENA]: In the end, I'm not sure a verdict like this doesn't just sell women short. It reinforces the notion of a helpless female forced to enlist a man to solve her problems.

[JACK]: Not that helpless. She got away with murder. 

[balmz]

anyone else find the adas looked too similar at times? like claire, abbie, jamie and alex at times can get confusing to remember who is who

say what you will about serena but at least she looked different

I wonder if there was a reason for that casting or production wise,

i recall one time when i was a more causal viewer and started watching i thought claire was alive again but it was abbie not claire

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, balmz said:

anyone else find the adas looked too similar at times? like claire, abbie, jamie and alex at times can get confusing to remember who is who

say what you will about serena but at least she looked different

I wonder if there was a reason for that casting or production wise,

i recall one time when i was a more causal viewer and started watching i thought claire was alive again but it was abbie not claire

Just speaking for myself, but nah. I don't think Angie Harmon and Jill Hennessy looked anything alike apart from both having dark eyes and hair.

[Ailianna]

3 hours ago, balmz said:

anyone else find the adas looked too similar at times? like claire, abbie, jamie and alex at times can get confusing to remember who is who

say what you will about serena but at least she looked different

I wonder if there was a reason for that casting or production wise,

i recall one time when i was a more causal viewer and started watching i thought claire was alive again but it was abbie not claire

There was a rumor at the time Elizabeth Rohm was hired that the network wanted a blonde and that's the reason she was hired.  Only for her hair, essentially.  I don't think they look much alike, different skin, different styles of hair (Jaime's is so short, for instance), and different face shapes.  But I also watched them more in real time, so I didn't see a CLaire episode followed by Abbie followed by Alex followed by Jaime (mixed up order on purpose).  So I don't find them confusing to tell apart.

[Waterston Fan]

5 hours ago, balmz said:

anyone else find the adas looked too similar at times? like claire, abbie, jamie and alex at times can get confusing to remember who is who

say what you will about serena but at least she looked different

I wonder if there was a reason for that casting or production wise,

i recall one time when i was a more causal viewer and started watching i thought claire was alive again but it was abbie not claire

No, they didn't look similar to me. 

I do wonder why there were so many black haired ADAs though. Think Jamie's hair was dark brown. 

[Xeliou66]

I saw Virtue tonight, I love McCoy’s closing argument in this one, it’s the first closing argument viewers got to see him make and it was awesome: “Give me the keys to your house or I’ll charge you with murder, I’m the DA, I can do it, give me $10,000 dollars or I’ll tell the feds about that shipment of heroin I saw you pick up at JFK, I’m the DA, they’ll listen. What would you do? I can tell you what I’ll be doing for the next ten years or so, I’ll be in Attica, because what I did is called extortion and it’s a felony”. Great closing statement. This is one of my favorite season 5 episodes, I really like the legal stuff in it, even if the storyline was a bit different from most L&O episodes. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

9 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I saw Virtue tonight, I love McCoy’s closing argument in this one, it’s the first closing argument viewers got to see him make and it was awesome: “Give me the keys to your house or I’ll charge you with murder, I’m the DA, I can do it, give me $10,000 dollars or I’ll tell the feds about that shipment of heroin I saw you pick up at JFK, I’m the DA, they’ll listen. What would you do? I can tell you what I’ll be doing for the next ten years or so, I’ll be in Attica, because what I did is called extortion and it’s a felony”. Great closing statement. This is one of my favorite season 5 episodes, I really like the legal stuff in it, even if the storyline was a bit different from most L&O episodes. 

Agreed! But I reaaaaalllllllllyyyyyyy wanted Sam and Regina to have scenes together, because they starred together in that other show I'll Fly Away a few years before Sam joined this show.

[wknt3]

18 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Just speaking for myself, but nah. I don't think Angie Harmon and Jill Hennessy looked anything alike apart from both having dark eyes and hair.

Personally I always get Robinette and Kincaid confused,,,

[balmz]

12 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I saw Virtue tonight, I love McCoy’s closing argument in this one, it’s the first closing argument viewers got to see him make and it was awesome: “Give me the keys to your house or I’ll charge you with murder, I’m the DA, I can do it, give me $10,000 dollars or I’ll tell the feds about that shipment of heroin I saw you pick up at JFK, I’m the DA, they’ll listen. What would you do? I can tell you what I’ll be doing for the next ten years or so, I’ll be in Attica, because what I did is called extortion and it’s a felony”. Great closing statement. This is one of my favorite season 5 episodes, I really like the legal stuff in it, even if the storyline was a bit different from most L&O episodes. 

liked it too, remember the svu episode with the plane pilot who was raped and barba went after the company? the mothership already did an episode like that and in a much better way

i do wonder if adam was right about it being overturned on appeal and i personally wonder  if civil court would be a more appropriate way for the woman to deal with it though, the lady could instead claim sexual harassment and sue them to the stone age then use the money to start her own firm

[WendyCR72]

Pretty sure the defense lawyer on "Immortal", soon to wrap on Sundance, was the same actor to play Eames' temporary partner on L&O: CI in "Purgatory". when Goren was undercover without her knowing. If not, they sure do sound alike.