Hoarders - General Discussion

[fonfereksglen]

She's an unrepentant, self centered taker.  Husband, brother, SIL, Hoarders crew, aftercare funds, home health care.   Once all the attention goes away, there will never be a family meal in that instantly filled dining room. She also never once mentioned husband's needs.  All memememe.

I can't believe she is 8 years younger than me!  She looks much older.  

[LittleIggy]

The hardwood floors were a nice find.

[enoughcats]

2 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

how much Meryl's spent on legal bills

I never knew that lawyers worked for free because what are the odds that she just ignores their bills?

2 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

 Her husband will never be able to stop working. 

When they said the dreaded words "second mortgage", I knew there was no hope at all. 

This when I counted the number of people in the family pictures that were blurred- I knew the family was fed up. When blurrs exceeds not-blurred excluding hoarder and spouse, you know there's history.

Obviously the heaters were not repaired.  Heavy coats were the uniform of the day. City inspectors aren't going to pass a house with no working heat in winter.  Did they have running, frozen water pipes?

 

Well, with one subtle exception.  Did you catch it? Cory wearing a Tshirt with the trash company logo on it.  And other workers earlier days, when the rain was coming down, snow on the ground, icecyles forming- bare armed wearing the same company logo on their tshirts.  Sort of made me think that the contract to do the work included so many hours of PR names on nice clean navy blue tshirts. 

[deedee2]

Question: Did Hoarders change their format, or were new episodes always 2 hours long and focused on only one hoarder story?  I seem to remember it being one hoarder/one hour. Then at some point it was two hoarders per episode.

Well, two hours for one story has its minor merits, but some of the scenes do drag on and on. Last night's episode could have easily been edited down to 1 hour without any loss of substance. To my mind, if you're gonna have a 2 hour show, then at least give us 2 hoarders!

[Taeolas]

The new era of Hoarders (past 3 seasons; since their break a few years ago) has been 2hours/1 hoarder. Most of us don't really like that. We tend to like the 2 hoarders per episode, just for the compare/contrast (or just for the break from the hoarder). I wouldn't mind 2 hoarders in 2 hours mixed (and it could be repackaged into 1 per hour for the sunday marathon). But A&E and the production company have chosen their format now. 

[deedee2]

1 minute ago, Taeolas said:

The new era of Hoarders (past 3 seasons; since their break a few years ago) has been 2hours/1 hoarder. Most of us don't really like that. We tend to like the 2 hoarders per episode, just for the compare/contrast (or just for the break from the hoarder). I wouldn't mind 2 hoarders in 2 hours mixed (and it could be repackaged into 1 per hour for the sunday marathon). But A&E and the production company have chosen their format now. 

Thanks for the quick reply. I haven't been following consistently since before they took a break. I just remember HATING it when Matt Paxton started spending the night in the hoard. Totally gratuitous and, frankly, stupid. Glad they stopped that!

[AZChristian]

9 hours ago, enoughcats said:

Well, with one subtle exception.  Did you catch it? Cory wearing a Tshirt with the trash company logo on it.  And other workers earlier days, when the rain was coming down, snow on the ground, icecyles forming- bare armed wearing the same company logo on their tshirts.  Sort of made me think that the contract to do the work included so many hours of PR names on nice clean navy blue tshirts. 

There's a reason Hoarders uses Steri-Clean.  It's Cory's company.

11 hours ago, fonfereksglen said:

She's an unrepentant, self centered taker.  Husband, brother, SIL, Hoarders crew, aftercare funds, home health care.   Once all the attention goes away, there will never be a family meal in that instantly filled dining room. She also never once mentioned husband's needs.  All memememe.

Although she did at one point try to make him partially culpable.  "He can be kind of dirty, too."

[CrazyInAlabama]

It finally dawned on me why Meryl apologized (exactly the speech Zasio suggested) to her sister-in-law, Sharon (?).    She thinks that she'll plead poor again, for money to fix the furnace, or something else, and she'll get another check to squander.      I hope the brother (Sharon's husband) figures that out, and refuses to give Meryl a penny.     Meryl's husband will never be able to retire with a first and second mortgage, and $100k in debt, and I bet there's more that he doesn't know about.

    When they finally lose the house, I bet they run crying to the brother, and sister-in-law for a place to stay 'for just a little while', followed by the moving trucks.  

If Meryl was a court officer for so many years, I bet she qualified for early retirement, and probably disability, and that has been squandered by her too.   Many states don't tax disability income, or at a reduced amount, especially from pensions paid from their own state. 

I wonder if Massachusetts taxes pensions at all?  Especially from their own state.   I don't know how the pay scale is in Massachusetts, but Meryl worked for the courts, and some places pay law enforcement related salaries much higher.   I don't know if court officers qualify, but many also can retire with full pensions at 55, with 30 years of service in most law enforcement jobs.  

She was a hoarder long before her mother died, so that's another phony story from a hoarder too.

In  one of the new seasons, they did have a season finale with three brothers on it.   One brother wouldn't even let them in the house, and I think the other two let them clean out some stuff.   

Edited April 21, 2021 by CrazyInAlabama

[ams1001]

42 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

If Meryl was a court officer for so many years, I bet she qualified for early retirement, and probably disability,

She did say she gets disability (I think during the convo with SIL and Dr. Z). "But that's only a certain amount."

[enoughcats]

5 hours ago, deedee2 said:

Last night's episode could have easily been edited down to 1 hour without any loss of substance

They replayed time after time after time the same shots of the interior.

I wonder if it was impossible for the camera person to get into other rooms, and there were not shots of the outdoors looking though windows.  Heck, we never even saw their dogs, There was a mention of urine soaked carpet, origin unmentioned.  The dogs were mentioned when "you'll be able to sit on the sofa with your dogs and watch TV."

[deedee2]

They replayed time after time after time the same shots of the interior.

Yup, I noticed that as well. There was that one green or blue bag that appeared in almost every shot of the hoard.

There was a mention of urine soaked carpet, origin unmentioned.

I caught that too and thought I must have missed them talking about rats or something. I didn't hear the bit about sitting on the sofa with the dogs. Interesting they didn't show the pets. Maybe they were staying with relatives while the house was being de-hoarded. Actually, I'm glad the dogs weren't shown. My heart always breaks for those poor animals that have to live in such squalor.

[Claire85]

Meryl was way too pleased with herself. All that giggling. You’ve ruined your husband’s chances for a decent retirement. Show some remorse. 

[ams1001]

42 minutes ago, Claire85 said:

Meryl was way too pleased with herself. All that giggling. You’ve ruined your husband’s chances for a decent retirement. Show some remorse. 

I wonder if the giggling little girl voice was some kind of defense mechanism. Dr. Z mentioned her using humor but she just came across as childish sometimes.

Maybe that article I posted yesterday about the inner lives of hoarders has made me more generous this week.

[Ligeia]

8 hours ago, ams1001 said:

she just came across as childish sometimes.

Well honestly every single hoarder has the mindset of a child. In that sense they're quite symptomatic of our Western cultures that constantly glorify eternal youth and encourage people to never grow past childhood/adolescence.

[dsteele]

On 4/19/2021 at 8:07 PM, CrazyInAlabama said:

Why are there still electric cords draped everywhere?

Those are from the lights that production hangs in every hoard. Look closely next episode and you'll see these round lights about the size of a soccer ball hung in most of the rooms, usually in groups of two or three. They provide bright, even lighting for the cameras.

The power cords did seem especially noticeable in this episode, probably because several of the rooms were so small.

[JudyObscure]

Meryl is the most entitled person I've ever seen.  She actually thought her brother's money was something she deserved -- because she was his sister. Until the Zazz made her apologize, I don't even think it had ever occurred to her that she shouldn't have gone shopping with the $12,000 her brother gave her for clean-up.

I thought the sister-in-law looked like Rita Moreno, she and her daughter were so kind, intelligent and good looking, it was hard to figure how they came from the same planet as Meryl.

[CrazyInAlabama]

26 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Meryl is the most entitled person I've ever seen.  She actually thought her brother's money was something she deserved -- because she was his sister. Until the Zazz made her apologize, I don't even think it had ever occurred to her that she shouldn't have gone shopping with the $12,000 her brother gave her for clean-up.

I thought the sister-in-law looked like Rita Moreno, she and her daughter were so kind, intelligent and good looking, it was hard to figure how they came from the same planet as Meryl.

I'm so glad you said who the sister-in-law resembled.   I couldn't figure it out. 

I think Meryl only apologized, and claims she wants to reconcile with the brother to have a place to go when they finally lose the house.   If the brother is smart, he'll tell her to leave and not come back.   You know she would move in, and try to hoard his house too.   

She only did that copy of what Zasio said, and meant none of it.   I'm sure if the brother stands firm on never paying her bills again, that she will stop trying to be buddies with him.   The brother was the only smart relative, because Meryl is nothing but a user. 

 She's going to keep shopping until her husband drops dead.   He has two jobs, and she doesn't care about what that's doing to him.    She's been hoarding for so many years, so her lies about not hoarding for very long was a total lie. 

Edited April 23, 2021 by CrazyInAlabama

[essexjan]

Gawd, Meryl was hard work. I've had co-workers like her before, non-stop jollity on the surface but with a sharp edge of nastiness underneath. Absolutely exhausting to be in their company for more than about ten minutes, and once you get on their shit list, you're on it forever. Poison under a saccharine coating.

I was shocked to learn Meryl was only 60. I thought she was easily ten years older than that. I'm almost 62 and struggle to keep my weight down (I need to get 30lbs off) but I make sure I do my 10,000 steps every single day (if it's raining, I'll put on some disco music and dance), because I know that once I stop moving, the weight stays on, the knees, ankles and hips eventually can't hold the weight and next thing I know I'm 100lbs overweight and I'm shuffling along with a stick, like good ol' Meryl.

I can't even fathom spending $100K on credit cards on piles of crap, not to mention a second mortgage. She and her husband are approaching retirement with no possibility of a comfortable retirement, because of their debt. Unless, of course, she's expecting her brother to bail her out again.

I don't blame her brother at all for distancing himself from her. That TV apology was insincere and I don't think she believed for one minute that she'd done anything wrong by pocketing her brother and sister-in-law's money. The supposed deathbed wish of her mother that the brother should help Meryl out financially because he's always going to be richer than her was self-serving bullshit concocted by Meryl.

A thoroughly nasty woman.

[RobustRutabaga]

17 hours ago, essexjan said:

I'm almost 62 and struggle to keep my weight down (I need to get 30lbs off) but I make sure I do my 10,000 steps every single day (if it's raining, I'll put on some disco music and dance), because I know that once I stop moving, the weight stays on, the knees, ankles and hips eventually can't hold the weight and next thing I know I'm 100lbs overweight and I'm shuffling along with a stick, like good ol' Meryl.

Love that you're doing those steps daily and the "alternate rain day" plans! And you articulated a great reminder of the importance of physical fitness - on "Hoarders" I see people lurching along needing canes or walkers, and might well be a "chicken and the egg" thing - where some condition left them immobile and the weight packed on due to that, or else there was always extra weight and it led to other health conditions and greater immobility - but the body's made to move and any movement someone can do is good. I wouldn't want anyone to end up in in the physical condition you see most of these hoarders in (nor would I want my surroundings to look like that!).

Also doesn't help that lots of those hoarders portrayed on the show don't have a functional kitchen or meal prep space and are subsisting on delivery, frozen dinners, junk food, etc.  Often they do have one afterwards, and I'm always curious if they're motivated in their lifestyle change and start to shed pounds with better eating and more hope and more actual moving around (even just within the house). Sadly I think a lot of them might revert to old habits.

[RobustRutabaga]

Looks like, based on TVDB, the next two episodes to air will be as follows:

S12E06 - Tim - May 3, 2021
S12E07 - Debbie - May 10, 2021

[theajw]

The Tim episode is already up on Amazon.  YouTube TV doesn't have A&E, so I bought this season on Amazon, where the episodes drop the day after they originally air.

I watched it and really wanted to see what everyone had to say, only to find A&E moved its airdate.

Tim...is something, and that's all I'll say for now. 

Edited April 28, 2021 by theajw

[Lorna Mae]

To piggyback on what I said earlier about all the elderly hoarders on the show lately, I wonder why that is. It could be that there are fewer young hoarders than there were 10+ years ago, due to increased awareness of hoarding. People might be better able to recognize hoarding tendencies in themselves and others, and check themselves or intervene before it gets past stage 1. Or it could be that TPTB want big hoards, floor-to-ceiling, filthy or both, and for that you need to find those lifelong/second generation hoarders. 

[enoughcats]

25 minutes ago, Lorna Mae said:

To piggyback on what I said earlier about all the elderly hoarders on the show lately, I wonder why that is. It could be that there are fewer young hoarders than there were 10+ years ago, due to increased awareness of hoarding.

Maybe, to attract young viewers who will stick around to watch addiction reality tv the producers find it easier to go to older folks. 

As an older folk, I know assorted folks who I'll call accumulators, more than hoarders.  Many, many of them have been hit with parents' unexpected and premature deaths and all of a sudden they've inherited a ton of stuff.  They can't bring themselves to just sell it through auctions, so it gets moved in with them. Some of them adjust and get rid of it; others don't.  The ones who don't remain overwhelmed and often their spouses belong to the 'don't rock the boat' club and manage to have lives outside the  hoard. 

One friend discovered that after the death of her Father that he owned a building in town and accumulated things there that he planned to use for something. She lived cross country.  Her Mother only learned about that building after his death.  Her entire vacation that year was devoted to cleaning out that building so it could be sold.  It wasn't fair to her, but life is seldom fair..

[LittleIggy]

On 4/28/2021 at 11:51 AM, theajw said:

The Tim episode is already up on Amazon.  YouTube TV doesn't have A&E, so I bought this season on Amazon, where the episodes drop the day after they originally air.

I watched it and really wanted to see what everyone had to say, only to find A&E moved its airdate.

Tim...is something, and that's all I'll say for now. 

Who is on this episode...Matt, Corey, or Dorothy? 

[RobustRutabaga]

6 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Who is on this episode...Matt, Corey, or Dorothy? 

I found there's a preview that one can watch on A&E's page for the episodes (direct link here). Looks like Cory from the clean-up aspect and "The Zazz" from the therapy/counselling angle. 😃

Edited April 30, 2021 by RobustRutabaga

[Midnightblue]

Watching the Meryl show right now and reading everyone's comments. I lived in Worcester for many years, and I will say that weather is dead on. That constant rain/snow mixture that never stops, a cold dampness that gets right into your bones. Worcester- UGH. It actually feels better when it drops a few more degrees and goes below freezing to just snow.

[RobustRutabaga]

5 hours ago, Midnightblue said:

Watching the Meryl show right now and reading everyone's comments.

I so wished it were Meryl Streep being profiled when I first saw the episode title of Meryl's name. However unlikely that might be (and you know a celeb's career has really hit the skids if they appear on "Hoarders"), I just envisioned her gesturing to room after room of old movie wardrobe, memorabilia, and props that she couldn't bear to part with and her exasperated husband. Sadly, it wasn't the most famous Meryl I can think of, but this Meryl sure had some things to work through and work out - and not just stuff-wise! For a few of the "Hoarders" seasons they did "follow-up" episodes I believe (sometimes on Youtube but also as fresh episode segments or interstitial during "marathons" I think?) and I'd be curious how it works out for Meryl.

[theajw]

On 4/30/2021 at 12:38 AM, LittleIggy said:

Who is on this episode...Matt, Corey, or Dorothy? 

Corey, thank goodness. This episode needed Corey.  Maybe Matt would have worked, but not Dorothy.  

[LittleIggy]

3 hours ago, theajw said:

Corey, thank goodness. This episode needed Corey.  Maybe Matt would have worked, but not Dorothy.  

Matt is my fave, but I’ll take Corey any day over Dorothy.

[Ligeia]

I miss Suzanne !! 😭😄

[ams1001]

On 4/28/2021 at 11:51 AM, theajw said:

Tim...is something, and that's all I'll say for now. 

Well, now I'm intrigued...

[CrazyInAlabama]

Tim-52 years of junk, two houses across the street from each other, and a half acre of junk.   Another car hoarder.   Tell me he's lived there 52 years, not that he's 52, because he looks 72.    OK, must be older because he's been married 52 years.    

I bet Code Enforcement hates him.   I feel so sorry for his neighbors.  That aerial view that shows that green, stagnant pool is a health hazard.   

I wish code enforcement would toss him out, bulldoze both houses, and throw it all in a dumpster.      His brother will say they have a good relationship, and then the clean up starts, and the mean person comes out.   The nephew has been living there for a long time, wonder what his back story is?  

Tim might be smart, but those seem to be the most stubborn, and mean hoarders too.  A 4,000 sq ft home packed full.   

Citrus Heights, CA, didn't we have another hoarder there?   Yes, it was Dennis. That was the man that moved from back east, and had a lot of stuff he moved too.    His wife was very ill too, and I wonder how she is.   They cleaned out 1,000,000 pounds of stuff, and he still had more. 

I did see an article about the neighboring house that was bulldozed, while the neighbors cheered. 

So now he's blaming it on the wife, and claiming she can't say what she feels.    Another one who thinks their junk is worth so much, and the auction house rep won't take anything.  

Tim is 76.   

The family thinks Zasio will help them?   When the wife refuses to speak up, then Zasio can't get her to.     

Edited May 4, 2021 by CrazyInAlabama

[ams1001]

The hoarder and his wife are both therapists?!

He reminds me a bit of Louie Anderson.

He sounded almost proud of his "history" with Code Enforcement.

Can his wife even see?

Damn, there's a strong family resemblance between him and his siblings. (This is amusing to me because I've had teachers see my last name and tell me my brother and I don't look anything alike.)

1 minute ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

Tell me he's lived there 52 years, not that he's 52, because he looks 72.

The former. I think they said they've been married 52 years.

Why is the nephew living there?

[ams1001]

I dunno...Sounds to me like he's saying it's her fault...

[CrazyInAlabama]

ANd now the auction company rep says everything is worthless, Tim shows his true self.   

I feel so sorry for codes enforcement there, the hoarder (not on the show) house that took 18 years to get it torn down, then Dennis from last year who had 1 million lbs hauled away, and still had a full yard, and now Tim.   

And now we see the real Tim.   So Tim's going to rehoard immediately isn't he?    

(I'm so glad they fixed the giant notification avatars.   That was a real pain for trying to type, and watch at the same time.)   

Edited May 4, 2021 by CrazyInAlabama

[Elizzikra]

Quote

The hoarder and his wife are both therapists?!

No one said they were good therapists...

[ams1001]

Just now, Elizzikra said:

No one said they were good therapists...

I get the feeling he uses his therapy training as a weapon... "She's fragile....I won't let you do this to her."

I don't get the feeling he got mad about Dr. Z's (rather gentle) questioning just because he wanted to protect his wife.

[deedee2]

Bit of an overreaction to Dr. Zasio's perfectly reasonable question to Wilhelmina.

[deedee2]

The Zazz is right. Wilhelmina's reticence seems more like fear of Tim, or the product of Tim's control of her. What an unhealthy dynamic. Somehow, the dysfunction feels more toxic when the players are all smart and educated.

[borealis]

Coming out of denial & realizing you married a gaslighting narcissist douchebag with a degree in how to manipulate people is why Wilhelmina went catatonic, is now "fragile", defeated, won't even speak when asked how SHE feels about something. And the rest of his family seems way too deferential to him & carefully crafting their words. And now they're talking to Dr. Zasio, instead of Tim himself, because they need her as a buffer. Because he's a gaslighting narcissist douchebag with a degree in how to manipulate people.

Oh, and sexist to boot! (Per Betsy talking to Dr. Zasio now.) 

Oh, hello btw. I'm new here. Lurked for YEARS, even TWOP days. Signed up back in Oct and THIS is my first post! HOWDY Y'ALL (I'm a Texan, heehee).

Edited May 4, 2021 by borealis
Smelling. Er, spelling.

[CrazyInAlabama]

Zasio trying to get the sister to stay is despicable.     The woman has PTSD from her mother, and brother treating her like garbage, and Zasio persuades her to stay, and be abused by her brother?     Anything to get two hours of usable film, no matter what it does to the relatives. 

5 minutes ago, borealis said:

Coming out of denial & realizing you married a gaslighting narcissist douchebag with a degree in how to manipulate people is why Wilhelmina went catatonic, is now "fragile", defeated, won't even speak when asked how SHE feels about something. And the rest of his family seems way too deferential to him & carefully crafting their words. And now they're talking to Dr. Zasio, instead of Tim himself, because they need her as a buffer. Because he's a gaslighting narcissist douchebag with a degree in how to manipulate people.

You are so right. (And welcome to the snark!) 

Now Tim shows what a jerk he is.    His poor sister, I hope she left and never looks back. 

Everyone of the relatives should leave, and tell Zasio and the rest not to bother them. 

Edited May 4, 2021 by CrazyInAlabama

[ams1001]

"It's gonna take a lot of forgiveness..." because they threw out a 2x4...

More weaponizing of his "degree in manipulating people"... (perfectly worded, @borealis!)

5 minutes ago, borealis said:

Oh, hello btw. I'm new here. Lurked for YEARS, even TWOP days. Signed up back in Oct amd THIS is my first post! HOWDY Y'ALL (I'm a Texan, heehee).

Welcome!

[theajw]

As I mentioned upthread, I already watched this episode on Amazon Prime, and I didn't want to say too much...

But now I can say that Tim is a control freak gaslighter.  I have watched enough reality television to know that editors control what we see.  However, I'm very familiar with gaslighters, so I feel safe in making that judgment about Tim.  

This episode truly gave me anxiety.  

[deedee2]

7 minutes ago, theajw said:

This episode truly gave me anxiety.  

Same here. There is so much awfulness going on, and the hoard is the least of the sickness.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I hope the first thing Code Enforcement, and the Health department see that nasty, mosquito pit of a pool.       What a shock, the hoarder regrets every bit of his garbage that they took away.    I'm glad the sister left, and I hope she never comes back.  

This is one aspect of the show I hate.  The pros will do anything to keep the filming going, and it's awful.    I'm so glad the sister left, and I hope she never comes back.    Tim is disgusting.   Too bad his wife won't leave either.    

Tim is a professional abuser, and gaslighter.    He's disgusting. 

40 tons gone, now get rid of the rest, and bulldoze everything.

That poor code enforcement officer, she should have come with backup, and a bulldozer.   The house is awful.   It looks better, but it's still piled up with junk all over the place.     Wilhelmina is still being held captive, by him and all of that junk.   I feel so sorry for the after care specialist having to deal with Tim and Wilhelmina

BSOJ-Says Tim will do aftercare, and keep cleaning up.

He was gaslighting again!   The BSOJ tells the truth, Tim had a change of heart, he thinks the clean up was a mistake, and isn't doing aftercare.    (No surprise, and they claim he's still cleaning up, I don't believe it). 

Zasio believed him?  Or faked it for the cameras.  

Edited May 4, 2021 by CrazyInAlabama

[borealis]

1 hour ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

You are so right. (And welcome to the snark!) 

 

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

More weaponizing of his "degree in manipulating people"... (perfectly worded, @borealis!)

Welcome!

Thanks y'all! 😁😁

[enoughcats]

1 hour ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

 The BSOJ tells the truth, Tim had a change of heart, he thinks the clean up was a mistake, and isn't doing aftercare. 

Let's not cut that arsehole any slack, the wording was The Clean Up was the biggest mistake of his life.  That no one has inserted a steel toed work boot up his sphincter is a mistake that can be remedied.

I join in wishing the neighbors somehow receive karmic retribution. 

I am glad, for her, that Betsy left.  She went in with a positive attitude and they broke her.  She knew enough to leave, so she's on her way to better places, I hope.

Tim. Manipulator. Two or more faced puppet master.  Dilettante. He loves his tools. Hope he's buried under a pile of his rusted hammers.  His level of delusion is, perhaps, best indicated by his affection for the rusted Murray mower cowling.  He can turn it into a mower he can sell for $750. Not bloody likely. New Murrays that are running with blades that are sharp aren't much more than that.  

The warped ten foot 2 x 4 ...dude? really? 

Could adult protective services help his wife?

Edited May 4, 2021 by enoughcats

[LittleIggy]

Tim: WOW, I don’t know how many times I said “F**k you, old man!” at that miserable old man, but it was a lot! His poor wife. No wonder she went into a catatonic state (which Tim took advantage of to further junk up their house 😡). Corey is so patient. I would have told Tim the above quote if I were Corey and was talked to like that. No surprise the old bastard didn’t follow up on aftercare. Here, Tim! 🖕🏻🖕🏻🖕🏻🖕🏻

[LittleIggy]

1 hour ago, borealis said:

 

Thanks y'all! 😁😁

Yeah, welcome and have a glass of wine! 🍷😏

[LittleIggy]

Didn’t Betsy say the other brother had told her to shut up, too? I do distinctly remember her saying they don’t like women. Zazz should have told her, “It’s okay, honey. You do what you have to do to keep yourself sane.”