Friends - General Discussion

[kiddo82]

3 hours ago, mojoween said:

I am younger than all of the Friends so when they all turned thirty it was amusing.

Well.  Now that thirty is way way WAY in my rear-view mirror it’s not so funny now!

I was 18 and a freshman in college when TOW They all Turn 30 aired.  At the time it was just an episode of Friends.  Then as 30 approached and I'd happen to see it again I was like "Damn, this hits close to home."  Now I see it and think "Damn, this close to home" before I have to remind myself "Girl, you passed 30 a while ago."

[Kawaiiko]

On 3/5/2021 at 12:39 PM, Inquisitionist said:

On 2/23/2021 at 7:54 PM, sassi214 said:

I just watched The One Where Ross Got High and it's definitely in my top 10 Friends episodes. It's almost perfect!

I really enjoy that one, too.  I love Jacques Cousteau!

I WANNA GOOOOOOOOOOO!

What always bothered me about that episode is how Ross can't face the consequences of his actions by just telling them he smoked pot in college (he didn't still smoke it or anything!) and he just put all of the blame on Chandler. Of course he had no idea that Chandler would be dating his sister but it still annoys me. Maybe that's a side effect of growing up as the "golden child" (as we see in TOW Rosita Dies, he wants to help Monica, but doesn't want her to "be ahead" of him in any way).

[ifionlyknew]

1 hour ago, Kawaiiko said:

Maybe that's a side effect of growing up as the "golden child" (as we see in TOW Rosita Dies, he wants to help Monica, but doesn't want her to "be ahead" of him in any way).

Well to be fair Ross was a medical marvel.

[Kawaiiko]

1 minute ago, ifionlyknew said:

Well to be fair Ross was a medical marvel.

Yes but that still doesn't give Judy (and Jack!) leeway to dump all over Monica!

[ifionlyknew]

9 minutes ago, Kawaiiko said:

Yes but that still doesn't give Judy (and Jack!) leeway to dump all over Monica!

I was being sarcastic.  Yes Monica was always second best.  Her wedding fund was used for a sports car for Jack.

[Kawaiiko]

Just now, ifionlyknew said:

I was being sarcastic.  Yes Monica was always second best.  Her wedding fund was used for a sports car for Jack.

Sorry, I didn't see the sarcasm. Monica's wedding fund was used for her parent's beach house (Jack brought the car for his 50th birthday) Let's not forget the entire plot in TOW Rosita Dies is how Jack uses her childhood belongings to divert water from the Porsche (Porsch-a as Joey would say lol)

[ifionlyknew]

1 minute ago, Kawaiiko said:

ack uses her childhood belongings to divert water from the Porsche (Porsch-a as Joey would say lol)

That's right.  And he gave it to Monica to make up for that.

[Kawaiiko]

Just now, ifionlyknew said:

That's right.  And he gave it to Monica to make up for that.

That was nice, though! Jack was nicer to Monica, but he still put her down sometimes.

[Bort]

27 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

Well to be fair Ross was a medical marvel.

That’s where the continuity of the show was hinky. Was Ross a medical marvel or was he because the dog thought Judy's diaphragm was a chew toy?

[chitowngirl]

Not only did they use Monica’s wedding fund for themselves, they paid for 2 of Ross’s weddings.

[Katy M]

2 hours ago, Kawaiiko said:

Sorry, I didn't see the sarcasm. Monica's wedding fund was used for her parent's beach house (Jack brought the car for his 50th birthday) Let's not forget the entire plot in TOW Rosita Dies is how Jack uses her childhood belongings to divert water from the Porsche (Porsch-a as Joey would say lol)

I don't actually think that was on purpose, though.  I think he grabbed the nearest boxes. If it had been Judy, it would have been on purpose.

[Kawaiiko]

6 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I think he grabbed the nearest boxes. If it had been Judy, it would have been on purpose.

Good point!

[Katy M]

2 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

Not only did they use Monica’s wedding fund for themselves, they paid for 2 of Ross’s weddings.

I was just thinking about this.  I think Carol's parents paid for the first wedding.  And they only paid for half of the second.

[mojoween]

Courtney Cox has blue eyes.  

I know that means nothing, but I literally JUST noticed it when she was talking to Chandler about living in France in a house made of cheese.  For the last 35 years, I thought her eyes were brown.

[helenamonster]

5 hours ago, Katy M said:

I was just thinking about this.  I think Carol's parents paid for the first wedding.  And they only paid for half of the second.

Well, half the second wedding, and several of Emily's parents' home reno projects.

[Snow Apple]

10 hours ago, Kawaiiko said:

Yes but that still doesn't give Judy (and Jack!) leeway to dump all over Monica!

Right? Favoring Ross is one thing but I never understood Judy's disdain for Monica. Judy even said Rachel was the daughter she never had (or something like that). I don't get it. Monica is smart, nice, and has a job. Anyone would love to have a daughter like her.

Yeah I know. Sitcom. But still.

[Bort]

13 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

Right? Favoring Ross is one thing but I never understood Judy's disdain for Monica. Judy even said Rachel was the daughter she never had (or something like that). I don't get it. Monica is smart, nice, and has a job. Anyone would love to have a daughter like her.

Yeah I know. Sitcom. But still.

From what I understood in the Nana’s funeral episode, Judy's mom seemed to do the same thing to her. I think it was genetic or something. I hope Monica was able to break free from that and not do it to her own daughter too.

[chitowngirl]

I like how much use they got out of Smelly Cat during the series run. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

Right? Favoring Ross is one thing but I never understood Judy's disdain for Monica. Judy even said Rachel was the daughter she never had (or something like that). I don't get it. Monica is smart, nice, and has a job. Anyone would love to have a daughter like her.

Yeah I know. Sitcom. But still.

My mother is like this and let me put it this way - I think boys are preferred in many countries the world over and from what I hear, this is a common issue mothers have with their daughters.  Trust me, it doesn't matter how good we are.  When sons are favoured like this they don't even have to stay in touch with the parents.  I have female friends that talk to their parents daily and the parents will simply ask them how their brother is doing 😐

3 hours ago, kariyaki said:

From what I understood in the Nana’s funeral episode, Judy's mom seemed to do the same thing to her. I think it was genetic or something. I hope Monica was able to break free from that and not do it to her own daughter too.

I'm not that confident with the way she treated Chandler.

Edited March 12, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Danny Franks]

5 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

Right? Favoring Ross is one thing but I never understood Judy's disdain for Monica. Judy even said Rachel was the daughter she never had (or something like that). I don't get it. Monica is smart, nice, and has a job. Anyone would love to have a daughter like her.

Yeah I know. Sitcom. But still.

Sitcom really is the answer. It's a trope that sitcoms love - overbearing mothers who criticise everything their daughters do - Modern Family used this trope all the time, from DeDe treating Claire like that to Claire treating Haley and Alex the same way. Arrested Development created a monster in Lucille Bluth. Selina Meyer was awful to her daughter etc.

The mean mother and easygoing father are very well worn stereotypes in comedy.

[WendyCR72]

Think I mentioned this in the vaulted forum of the show, but Christina Pickles must have been a go-to for overbearing, critical mother in the 1990s. Because, during the Friends era, around 1996, she also recurred on Silk Stalkings, playing the same type of mother as Judy Geller, Evelyn St. John there, the witchy mother of the female lead [following the exit of original star Mitzi Kapture's Rita Lee Lance a season prior], Cassandra St. John, played by Janet Gunn.

One big difference I appreciated there was, after a time, Cassy actually confronted her mother and really let her have it for Evelyn's treatment of her before throwing her out. (Of course, she broke down in tears after, but hey.)

I really wish Monica had such an opportunity with Judy! (But again, sitcom. I know.)

Still, Christina Pickles excelled at playing such horrible mothers!

[Kawaiiko]

5 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I really wish Monica had such an opportunity with Judy! (But again, sitcom. I know.)

Me too! The closest we got was in TOW Nana Dies Twice, where she subtly hints at Judy's behavior, and TOW The Cuffs, where she makes the casserole and proves her mother wrong (There'll be nothing but ice in the freezer the next time you cater.").

[Kawaiiko]

On the subject, TOW The Cuffs is actually a really good episode. It has the "Chandler in handcuffs" plot, which was hysterical. Perry slamming the filing cabinet into his head was a beautiful moment of physical comedy (it was also unscripted!). The "Monica is catering" plot is great also. The "Joey buys an encyclopedia from Penn Jillette" plot was just meh, but it paid off at the end when they start talking about the Korean War.

[rubaco]

9 hours ago, Kawaiiko said:

Perry slamming the filing cabinet into his head was a beautiful moment of physical comedy (it was also unscripted!). 

This is not the first time I've heard that, so it must be true, but what exactly did they think would happen with an empty filing cabinet prop and him flailing his arms around? It also begs the question: how was that scene supposed to end, if not on that particular gag?

[Ms Blue Jay]

I found this on IMDb.  Pretty cool that they have trivia for the episodes.

It doesn't really answer your question, but there's some good detail.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Kawaiiko said:

On the subject, TOW The Cuffs is actually a really good episode. It has the "Chandler in handcuffs" plot, which was hysterical. Perry slamming the filing cabinet into his head was a beautiful moment of physical comedy (it was also unscripted!). The "Monica is catering" plot is great also. The "Joey buys an encyclopedia from Penn Jillette" plot was just meh, but it paid off at the end when they start talking about the Korean War.

"Vassss deferens?" *wiggly hand movement*

[wendyg]

I think it would be harder to make a tough, hypercritical father funny. I had friends as a teenager whose father was very authoritarian, and there wasn't anything funny about it. That said, one problem with a lot of sitcoms is that the female adult lead is the one who's always stomping down on anything that's fun.

[Ms Blue Jay]

There's a lot of shows out there with Daddy issues, like "LOST".  That was a show full of characters with Daddy issues.  You can guess how the writers' room grew up.

There's some Daddy issues on "Friends".  Chandler has them, Rachel has them sort of.  Phoebe DEFINITELY has them.  Joey has them and there was that great season 1 episode that showed why.

I don't find extremely realistic storylines "sitcom tropes".  No family is exemplary, or normal, or perfect.  So many people have issues with their parents.  I think that's what's normal and I think it's ok.  And, even better, pop culture and books about this stuff help normalize it, which is very helpful for people who hear messages like, you should always be grateful and never question your parents.  It's okay to question stuff.  Monica had to grow her own identity and hearing messages of criticism from being a child onward is not easy.  A lot of people internalize that stuff which helps explain Monica's control issues and OCD.  "Friends" is a psychologically smart show and that's why I don't dismiss the family issues as tropes.  I love how they delved right into it. It's healing for people going through the same thing.

Contrast it to a show like "Sex and the City" that almost pretended that family and family issues don't exist.  It's an interesting choice, and I love both shows, but I actually think that a lot of the family stuff on "Friends" is so relatable.  Even just Ross and Monica being so close as adult siblings is cool and relatable.  I wouldn't dismiss that as a sitcom trope.  I know so many adults who are close with their siblings too.  

There was that great season 1 episode with Roger the psychologist who analyzed everyone.  Ross getting married 3 times by age 30 or whatever, it's interesting to think about.  Look at J.Lo or Liz Taylor, it happens.  😉.   There are entire reasons for why Chandler is sarcastic, Joey is a ladies' man (seven sisters -- and why does he have seven sisters -- big Catholic family), Rachel feels incapable, Phoebe is considered "weird".  The writers have thought it through.  They didn't just toss characters and personality traits into a hat and mix them up.  

Edited March 13, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[ifionlyknew]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

There's a lot of shows out there with Daddy issues, like "LOST".  That was a show full of characters with Daddy issues.  You can guess how the writers' room grew up.

There's some Daddy issues on "Friends".  Chandler has them, Rachel has them sort of.  Phoebe DEFINITELY has them.  Joey has them and there was that great season 1 episode that showed why.

I don't find extremely realistic storylines "sitcom tropes".  No family is exemplary, or normal, or perfect.  So many people have issues with their parents.  I think that's what's normal and I think it's ok.  And, even better, pop culture and books about this stuff help normalize it, which is very helpful for people who hear messages like, you should always be grateful and never question your parents.  It's okay to question stuff.  Monica had to grow her own identity and hearing messages of criticism from being a child onward is not easy.  A lot of people internalize that stuff which helps explain Monica's control issues and OCD.  "Friends" is a psychologically smart show and that's why I don't dismiss the family issues as tropes.  I love how they delved right into it. It's healing for people going through the same thing.

Contrast it to a show like "Sex and the City" that almost pretended that family and family issues don't exist.  It's an interesting choice, and I love both shows, but I actually think that a lot of the family stuff on "Friends" is so relatable.  Even just Ross and Monica being so close as adult siblings is cool and relatable.  I wouldn't dismiss that as a sitcom trope.  I know so many adults who are close with their siblings too.  

There was that great season 1 episode with Roger the psychologist who analyzed everyone.  Ross getting married 3 times by age 30 or whatever, it's interesting to think about.  Look at J.Lo or Liz Taylor, it happens.  😉.   There are entire reasons for why Chandler is sarcastic, Joey is a ladies' man (seven sisters -- and why does he have seven sisters -- big Catholic family), Rachel feels incapable, Phoebe is considered "weird".  The writers have thought it through.  They didn't just toss characters and personality traits into a hat and mix them up.  

You are right.  Each character had issues.  But unlike most sitcoms we knew why they had those issues.  And we actually got to see them grow and and make progress with some of their issues.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, ifionlyknew said:

You are right.  Each character had issues.  But unlike most sitcoms we knew why they had those issues.  And we actually got to see them grow and and make progress with some of their issues.  

That's very true!  Rachel was supposed to be a spoiled brat but we watched her become more independent.  Monica was supposed to be controlling and Chandler was supposed to be a commitment-phobe and we watched them commit to each other!  Joey was supposed to be a womanizer but he ended up having three lifelong best female friends that he never mistreated.  And on and on.

Edited March 13, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Danny Franks]

11 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Joey was supposed to be a womanizer but he ended up having three lifelong best female friends that he never mistreated.  And on and on.

Yet he was still a womaniser who did mistreat the women he dated, through dishonesty and gaslighting tactics. It hasn't aged particularly well, even though Joey has always been my favourite.

I will always maintain that they should have used his unreciprocated feelings for Rachel as a catalyst for him deciding he wanted to actually find love and a long term relationship. That was in season eight, so the spin-off wasn't in the plans at that stage, as far as I know.

The guest stars they could have had to play women he dates in his quest would have been so good.

[Kawaiiko]

6 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Yet he was still a womaniser who did mistreat the women he dated, through dishonesty and gaslighting tactics. It hasn't aged particularly well, even though Joey has always been my favourite.

I will always maintain that they should have used his unreciprocated feelings for Rachel as a catalyst for him deciding he wanted to actually find love and a long term relationship. That was in season eight, so the spin-off wasn't in the plans at that stage, as far as I know.

The guest stars they could have had to play women he dates in his quest would have been so good.

1. The example that always springs to my mind is when he takes down the shower curtain when searching for a female roommate. Hurl.

2. That would've certainly made Joey more redeemable in my eyes. Instead they just dumbed him down to horrible levels. I don't like Rachel/Joey, but they're better than Ross/Rachel.

3. There were certainly some missed opportunities with guest stars!

[Kawaiiko]

With Rachel/Joey, the writers kind of just sprang it on us because "Well, we just got more seasons of the show, we have to do something to delay R and R getting together even though they haven't even dated for six years, but what the hell?"

It just felt very forced and contrived. I probably would have liked it better if there was more buildup to it, like having the Season 7 cliffhanger having a ship tease moment between the two. (I'm just thinking out loud, honestly.)

At least their relationship led to TOW Ross is Fine (aka one of the best episodes ever)

"MY FAJITAS!" "LET'S TAKE A TRIP!" "I CAN USE ALL THESE THINGS!" "Everyone would feel better if we had some FLAN."

[Kawaiiko]

On 3/11/2021 at 6:40 PM, helenamonster said:

Well, half the second wedding, and several of Emily's parents' home reno projects.

"And if I hear one word, NO GRANDCHILDREN!"

 

[Katy M]

Just now, Kawaiiko said:

1. The example that always springs to my mind is when he takes down the shower curtain when searching for a female roommate. Hurl.

And his word association test.  

[Kawaiiko]

5 hours ago, Katy M said:

And his word association test. 

Oh yes. That was soooo gross.

Edited March 14, 2021 by Kawaiiko

[Mr. Meatball Man]

On 3/8/2021 at 11:24 AM, Kawaiiko said:

"I see... have you considered therapy?"

I wish we got to see more of the divorce lawyer! 

I didn't like how Ross kept Rachel in the dark with the annulment- but it was funny to hear that they had their wedding dinner at Pizza Hut of all places. l o l l o l.

I thought it was hilarious how when they actually tried to get the annulment, Rachel made it seem like Ross was gay and addicted to heroin/crack. "Crack isn't even an intravenous drug!" "Well, you would know."

Looking back, Ross had a lot of problems as a character, but David Schwimmer was such a great actor, he could take almost anything the writers gave him and make it work. I think one of Ross' best lines is "See? All eyes on me!" He's wearing a women's shirt that Joey of all people is trying to warn him about, everybody's staring at him like he's crazy, and he's so oblivious to it, he doesn't even register what it's actually about. His facial expressions and his delivery in that scene were fantastic. 

[kiddo82]

I'm not the biggest Ross fan either but he definitely had his moments.  When he's going back and fourth between Mona and Rachel's dad about Rachel's pregnancy?  The entire exchange is golden.   (To Rachel's Dad):  "Hey!  I offered to marry her!" (turns to Mona):  "But I didn't want to."  And then Joey comes up on the machine about the hooker and poor Ross is just like "No!  No!  No!  I need to lie down."  He's so good in that entire scene.  The fajitas scene is also pretty classic.  Probably my favorite Schwimmer line reading though is when Rachel is going out with Elizabeth's dad and Ross doesn't like it.  Rachel says that he dated her sister and his defense is "This is weird for me!"  It's all in the way he delivers it.

[Kawaiiko]

12 hours ago, Mr. Meatball Man said:

I thought it was hilarious how when they actually tried to get the annulment, Rachel made it seem like Ross was gay and addicted to heroin/crack. "Crack isn't even an intravenous drug!" "Well, you would know."

"Well, you ripped the paper out of the court reporter's machine!"

"It was the only way I could get him to STOP TYPING!!!"

[chitowngirl]

22 hours ago, Kawaiiko said:

With Rachel/Joey, the writers kind of just sprang it on us because "Well, we just got more seasons of the show, we have to do something to delay R and R getting together even though they haven't even dated for six years, but what the hell?"

It just felt very forced and contrived. I probably would have liked it better if there was more buildup to it, like having the Season 7 cliffhanger having a ship tease moment between the two. (I'm just thinking out loud, honestly.)

At least their relationship led to TOW Ross is Fine (aka one of the best episodes ever)

"MY FAJITAS!" "LET'S TAKE A TRIP!" "I CAN USE ALL THESE THINGS!" "Everyone would feel better if we had some FLAN."

(Bell rings in the kitchen) “I don’t even know what that’s for!”

[Danny Franks]

On 3/14/2021 at 3:41 PM, Kawaiiko said:

With Rachel/Joey, the writers kind of just sprang it on us because "Well, we just got more seasons of the show, we have to do something to delay R and R getting together even though they haven't even dated for six years, but what the hell?"

It just felt very forced and contrived. I probably would have liked it better if there was more buildup to it, like having the Season 7 cliffhanger having a ship tease moment between the two. (I'm just thinking out loud, honestly.)

At least their relationship led to TOW Ross is Fine (aka one of the best episodes ever)

"MY FAJITAS!" "LET'S TAKE A TRIP!" "I CAN USE ALL THESE THINGS!" "Everyone would feel better if we had some FLAN."

I really liked Joey/Rachel, as I've said before. To me, it was an organic growth of their friendship due to them living together and experiencing that increased intimacy and familiarity. They knew things about one another that the others didn't, had their own private jokes and points of contention. And they were both very attractive people who had admitted to being attracted to each other in the past.

The build of it on Joey's side was quite well done, and they had some fun storylines like TOW Rachel's Book, TOW Joey's Award and TOW Monica's Boots, where you can see why Joey might start to feel more for Rachel.

What I didn't like was how quickly it was dropped afterwards - there was one episode of awkwardness after Joey admitted how he felt, then the writers went back to teasing Rachel/Ross before the baby was born.

Rachel's side of things was too abrupt, but I still liked how flirty and giddy she was because she suddenly had this intense crush she hadn't been expecting. But again the writers gave us whiplash by building them into a Real Thing then just tossing it away with a few slapstick jokes.

And yes, the rest of them putting Rachel/Ross on a pedestal was fucking ridiculous. That was a one year relationship that happened six years earlier and, when they split up it almost destroyed the group. No friend in their right mind would be calling back to a relationship like that fondly.

[kiddo82]

7 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

I really liked Joey/Rachel, as I've said before. To me, it was an organic growth of their friendship due to them living together and experiencing that increased intimacy and familiarity. They knew things about one another that the others didn't, had their own private jokes and points of contention. And they were both very attractive people who had admitted to being attracted to each other in the past.

What I didn't like was how quickly it was dropped afterwards - there was one episode of awkwardness after Joey admitted how he felt, then the writers went back to teasing Rachel/Ross before the baby was born.

Completely agree.  I always thought Rachel and Joey as a couple felt earned and the build up felt completely organic.  Aniston and LeBlanc had chemistry to spare and it was apparent both characters had a fondness for each other.  Isn't it in the One with the Stain when he gets the crib for her and he says he wants her to stay even after the baby is born?  Even their decision not to follow through with it felt natural.  They were two hot people who were friends who maybe wanted something more but ultimately decided it wasn't in their best interests.  But I also agree that the episodes that followed just abruptly dropped the subject.  Even if I don't mind the way the way it was executed it was just put out there by the show as nothing more than an obstacle to an inevitable Ross and Rachel end game.  An end game that didn't even make any sense by that point in the series.    

[ifionlyknew]

I didn't really care for Rachel/Joey mostly because I didn't think it was executed well but also because I knew Rachel/Ross was always the end game.   I bought Joey's crush on her but I just didn't buy Rachel feeling the same way. Could they have written it better? Probably.  But as I said that relationship was going to be nothing more than a placeholder for Rachel/Ross.  Ross and Rachel were the Sam and Diane of Friends.   They got so much publicity out of will they get back together or not.   The writers were wise to give Chandler and Monica a relatively happy relationship.   Two on/off again couples would have been too much.

[Kawaiiko]

18 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

I didn't really care for Rachel/Joey mostly because I didn't think it was executed well but also because I knew Rachel/Ross was always the end game.   I bought Joey's crush on her but I just didn't buy Rachel feeling the same way. Could they have written it better? Probably.  But as I said that relationship was going to be nothing more than a placeholder for Rachel/Ross.  Ross and Rachel were the Sam and Diane of Friends.   They got so much publicity out of will they get back together or not.   The writers were wise to give Chandler and Monica a relatively happy relationship.

YESSSSSS to all of this!!!

[mojoween]

On 3/14/2021 at 11:46 AM, Kawaiiko said:

"And if I hear one word, NO GRANDCHILDREN!"

 

Ben who?

 

On 3/15/2021 at 10:04 AM, chitowngirl said:

(Bell rings in the kitchen) “I don’t even know what that’s for!”

I say this in this house all the time and the menfolk who live here don’t get it.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I didn't feel any chemistry between Rachel and Joey.  When people online say it felt gross or too weird, I feel very heard.  Maybe Jennifer and Matt are just way too brotherly and sisterly in real life.  They also dumbed down Rachel to have her be a love interest to Joey (having them both giggle at Ross's speech in Barbados - Rachel has never acted like that before).  Just the whole thing, ugh.

I did kind of buy Rachel having that dream about/crush on Joey because of Days, during the episode with the roof party.  It's when Rachel and Joey actually got TOGETHER where it felt all wrong.  Just so wrong.  At least the show acknowledged it with Joey having major crises of conscience and dreams about the Ross baby.

Although, yes, The One where Ross is Fine is a classic.  

Edited March 16, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Madding crowd]

I don’t think Joey would be sophisticated enough for Rachel in the long run. Rachel grew as a person and Joey was just made dumber. I think she had a crush on him and he had stronger feelings for her, but it wouldn’t have worked . 

[Inquisitionist]

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

They also dumbed down Rachel to have her be a love interest to Joey (having them both giggle at Ross's speech in Barbados - Rachel has never acted like that before).  Just the whole thing, ugh.

All the characters seemed to become less mature over time (in general terms -- each had his or her moments of being smart/sensitive).  There seemed to be a fairly major change in season 5.  Phoebe's pregnancy nastiness became pretty permanent.  Ross's debacle with Emily pushed him over an edge, and Rachel got more petty about him and things in general.  Monica and Chandler became like giddy teens in their secret romance.  And Joey become more... Joey.   It certainly led to some hilarious storylines and scenes, but they were much different characters from where they started the series.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I personally and specifically think that the writers dumbed down Rachel for that particular Barbados episode to make us think that Rachel and Joey had been compatible and alike all of this time, which didn't at all ring true to me.

Ross understandably losing his mind after torpedoing his own wedding and Emily leaving him is not an equal case in my opinion.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Kawaiiko]

11 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Ross understandably losing his mind after torpedoing his own wedding and Emily leaving him is not an equal case in my opinion.

The writers just killed Ross/Emily so they could have a round of Ross and Rachel. Which lasted like, what, 4 episodes and it wasn't brought up again until the next season!!!

uuuuuugggggghhhhhh. R & R are (haha puns) just a bunch of overused tropes and they become toxic around one another and Rachel was always "I don't want Ross until Ross is with someone else!" WTH was that? It made no sense at all!

I get that they had the whole "Emma" storyline because they thought it was ending in Season 8, but 9/11 happened and we got Season 9. Then NBC couldn't let go and we had Season 10. Which was not really needed, as the long-running storylines could've easily been resolved in a shorter time.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Kawaiiko