Friends - General Discussion

[Crs97]

I am totally Team Ross on the No One is Ready episode.  First, they go to Joey's horrid plays and try to say something nice.  They listen to Phoebe sing and try to say something nice.  It wasn't going to kill them to attend Ross' big night.  My dad, who was amazing in so many ways, was always late.  If the wedding started at 7 pm and was 30 minutes away, you could almost guarantee that at 6:20 he'd start looking around at all of us standing there ready to go and announce that he should probably go get a shower.  The number of times the procession was the bridesmaids, the maid of honor, our family, and then the bride - I am shuddering just remembering it.  Did we make it in time?  Technically, yes, and the friends who knew us thought it was hilarious, but I hated it.  Husband knows I just about panic at the thought of being late, even if it turns out to be no big deal.  It's a big deal to me, which counts for something.

Also, I never bought that Rachel didn't know what she wanted to wear beforehand and was slow just because she was trying to look pretty for Ross.  Now if they wanted to make it that Rachel had picked a dress, but it was the only thing Phoebe could fit into after her dress was ruined and that is why Rachel is now at a loss - I could have bought that.  But finding out Rachel hadn't put a thought into what would be appropriate for her boyfriend's big evening?  Nope. 

My rant is over.

[WinnieWinkle]

2 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I am totally Team Ross on the No One is Ready episode.  First, they go to Joey's horrid plays and try to say something nice.  They listen to Phoebe sing and try to say something nice.  It wasn't going to kill them to attend Ross' big night. 

I don't think most of us who find Ross overbearing in this episode feel that way because we don't see a problem with people not being on time for events.  I'm married to someone who always seems to start getting ready to leave at the time we are supposed to arrive.  Maddening.   

[Crs97]

A lot of the comments I see about this episode seem to focus on two arguments:   people ended up being ready on time so it was no big deal, and it was going to be a boring evening so Ross shouldn’t have asked them to go.  Ross is not a favorite of mine (though I thought David Schwimmer was terrific), but I am in his team here.

[Ms Blue Jay]

For me, and I think a few others, all of the conflict of the episode was that Ross came over specifically to supervise the other 5 going to his event on time, when the same effect could have been achieved by a phone call and him just showing up at the event by himself separately.  So, a lot of us think that he could have gone to the event separately, and then Ross wouldn't have had to deal with the stress of his friends acting immaturely or in self-involved ways half an hour before one of the more important nights of his life.  Ross does not live with them.  He probably lived quite far away.  There was no reason for him to stop at Monica's before the event.  He whipped himself up into a frenzy.

I had the opposite father, the kind who would break traffic laws and do absolutely anything to be on time or dreadfully early for things that didn't matter, so as soon as I lived on my own, I was much happier not ever rushing anywhere and not being rushed by people.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Madding crowd]

Ross was going there with Rachel as his date so he planned on going with her. Then he saw Joey and Chandler acting like they were 12 so he got annoyed. People in ensemble shows are often together as part of the plot. The friends also went together to the Gellers anniversary party. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Yeah, I know.  I was the one who originally brought up the episode because I liked it.  But, some people had a problem with Ross's behaviour in the episode and the question was why.  I find the discussion of the logistics interesting.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Kawaiiko]

Question for people out there, do you think that Ross/Rachel is a good, loving relationship, or a toxic one? Opinions from both sides are welcome!

[WinnieWinkle]

9 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

But, some people had a problem with Ross's behaviour in the episode and the question was why. 

For me the problem I had was less with his general entitled boss everyone around because I'm Ross attitude as it did with the specific way he treated Rachel.  But what bothered me most wasn't Ross, actually, it was the way Rachel ended up essentially rewarding his jerky behavior.  Which leads to my answer to the question YouKaiMoe posed, most of the time I did find they had a toxic relationship which I think is mostly down to Ross.

[Crs97]

And yet every time he started to have a healthy relationship with someone else, she sabotaged it.  I would like to think they both went into therapy at the end.  I personally think they could have a healthy relationship after a lot of professional help.

[Katy M]

2 hours ago, YoukaiMoe said:

Question for people out there, do you think that Ross/Rachel is a good, loving relationship, or a toxic one? Opinions from both sides are welcome!

I really hate the word toxic. But, no I don't think they have a good, loving relationship.  Ross had a crush on her in high school. That's fine.  They meet up again years later and he says something about going out, she agrees, but it never happens.  Again, fine.  But, then he just moons over her for a whole year, which, IMO, is a little creepy. She finds out that he likes her (really, how did none of the girls notice this all year?), and decides maybe she'd like to date him. OK.  But, then he comes home from China with a girlfriend.  The two reasonable things for Rachel to do is to a: drop it.  After all, she just interacted with him for a whole year without feeling the need to date him.  Or B, get him alone and tell him how she feels.  But, instead she passively aggressive tries to throw little chinks into their relationship.

Ross finds out Rachel likes him and decides to decide who to date by making a pro/con list.  I don't have the problem with this some have.  Although, that should have just told him to date Rachel, because he clearly wasn't all that in love with Julie if he needed a list after dating a few months.  But, anyway, she found out about it, didn't like it and decided not to date him. Again, fine.  You can date or not date whomever you choose for whatever reason.  But, then Ross got all possessive.  Not cool.

Then they date for a year and I'm not even going to touch on the break or not a break thing and just say they broke up for some reason.  They then get past their animosity and start being friends and then Rachel wants him every time he has another girlfriend.  

The whole thing is just stupid and they needed to move to different states eons ago.

[FormerMod-a1]

I thought they brought out the worst in each other.

[ifionlyknew]

As a fan watching the show I wanted Ross and Rachel to get together and make it work.  But upon a complete rewatch and knowing what is going to happen I think they should have never gotten back together after "the break".    I think Ross was in love with the Rachel he imagined her to be all those years he pined for her.  And I'm not entirely convinced Rachel was ever in love with Ross.  If they were real people I think they might have had an on and off relationship because they were constantly around one another.   They probably could have still had a kid. But living happily ever after?  No.

Contrast them to Monica and Chandler who were friends first and then fell in love.  That was the great love affair of Friends.

Edited January 21, 2021 by ifionlyknew

[Bort]

Rachel sabotaged a couple of Ross’s relationships but I do think she gets unfairly blamed for the Emily debacle. To me, it doesn’t matter that she intended to break up Ross’s wedding, in the end, all she did was show up (which Ross had begged her to do), wish him luck and sit down. What happened after that was all on Ross. And the writers, for turning Emily into a controlling shrew.

[Kawaiiko]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

Then they date for a year and I'm not even going to touch on the break or not a break thing and just say they broke up for some reason.  They then get past their animosity and start being friends and then Rachel wants him every time he has another girlfriend.  

The whole thing is just stupid and they needed to move to different states eons ago.

VERY WELL SAID. I think that R & R was doomed from the start. 

[Katy M]

50 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

Rachel sabotaged a couple of Ross’s relationships but I do think she gets unfairly blamed for the Emily debacle. To me, it doesn’t matter that she intended to break up Ross’s wedding, in the end, all she did was show up (which Ross had begged her to do), wish him luck and sit down. What happened after that was all on Ross. And the writers, for turning Emily into a controlling shrew.

I agree completely.  If Ross can't even concentrate on Emily for the amount of time it takes to say wedding vows, he's not ready to marry her.  He's still hung up on Rachel.  I actually don't blame her for any of the breakups, with the possible exception of Julie.  Just noting her unhealthy attitude.  

[Kawaiiko]

31 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I agree completely.  If Ross can't even concentrate on Emily for the amount of time it takes to say wedding vows, he's not ready to marry her.  He's still hung up on Rachel.  I actually don't blame her for any of the breakups, with the possible exception of Julie.  Just noting her unhealthy attitude.  

I hate how they make Emily the bad guy in this whole situation. You should know where your spouse is at all times! I do think the Rachel thing was a little huge, but he was obviously still in love with her.

[Crs97]

2 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

Contrast them to Monica and Chandler who were friends first and then fell in love.  That was the great love affair of Friends.

Co-sign this!!  I loved watching their relationship, and they are the poster children against the notion that putting the couple together ends the show.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

2 hours ago, kariyaki said:

Rachel sabotaged a couple of Ross’s relationships but I do think she gets unfairly blamed for the Emily debacle. To me, it doesn’t matter that she intended to break up Ross’s wedding, in the end, all she did was show up (which Ross had begged her to do), wish him luck and sit down. What happened after that was all on Ross. And the writers, for turning Emily into a controlling shrew.

I totally 100% agree.

[Ms Blue Jay]

34 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

Co-sign this!!  I loved watching their relationship, and they are the poster children against the notion that putting the couple together ends the show.  

It clearly didn't end the show, but I think that the show fundamentally changed when C & M got together.  Monica changed enormously.  I don't know why but Courteney Cox even fundamentally changed how she acted, as Monica.  C & M getting together is a good "jump the shark" analogy in my personal opinion.

I really enjoyed Season 5 when C & M were hiding from everyone, and then Ross finding out was of course, hysterical.  But Season 6, when Monica kind of became....... Chandler's master?  And Chandler kind of became Monica's whipping boy. I really think it didn't paint them in the best light.

Of course I still enjoy some episodes here and there after C & M get together, but my personal apex of the show is Season 5.

[Bort]

2 hours ago, YoukaiMoe said:

I hate how they make Emily the bad guy in this whole situation. You should know where your spouse is at all times! I do think the Rachel thing was a little huge, but he was obviously still in love with her.

Yes, and a reasonable request from Emily would be to ask that he not hang out with just Rachel anymore, but not allowing him to hang out with her when all of his other friends were around? Totally unreasonable. What, did she think Ross and Rachel would decide to go at it on Monica’s coffee table while the other four sat there and watched?
 

Although, I will concede that the writers wrote her that way because Helen Baxendale declined to return, so that’s just what we got stuck with.

[Kawaiiko]

I have been listening to quite a lot of music lately, and I think that this song describes some of the worst parts of Ross and Rachel's relationship perfectly: 

 

[Katy M]

14 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

Totally unreasonable. What, did she think Ross and Rachel would decide to go at it on Monica’s coffee table while the other four sat there and watched?

Didn't they basically go at it in front of a bunch of kids in the planetarium?  Yeah, I know they just woke up in front of them. But, honestly, I wouldn't put anything past Ross.  Plus, until Emily gets to America, he might consider them on a break.

[Irlandesa]

57 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

Yes, and a reasonable request from Emily would be to ask that he not hang out with just Rachel anymore, but not allowing him to hang out with her when all of his other friends were around? Totally unreasonable. What, did she think Ross and Rachel would decide to go at it on Monica’s coffee table while the other four sat there and watched?
 

Yeah. It was unreasonable but I don't quite see her as the "villain."  I see her as in denial.  She thought she could create rules that would make what happened "okay" in her mind but she kept moving the goalposts.  Neither one was ready to admit that the moment broke them. And even if he met this demand, it probably wouldn't be enough. 

I also think part of her was trying to make him make the call because that's what she thinks he wants.

[Ms Blue Jay]

2 hours ago, kariyaki said:

Yes, and a reasonable request from Emily would be to ask that he not hang out with just Rachel anymore, but not allowing him to hang out with her when all of his other friends were around? Totally unreasonable. What, did she think Ross and Rachel would decide to go at it on Monica’s coffee table while the other four sat there and watched?

I'm sure that every Friends forum has drilled this into the ground, but it's not just his "friends".  It's his sister and college roommate involved.  (My college roommates are like my sisters!). So, yeah it's not as simple as, you can't see your friends when they're with Rachel (and one of them lives with Rachel!). Emily's deal was never going to work.

I'm not blaming her, it was just never going to work.  After Ross said the wrong name (which is obviously his fault), Emily shouldn't have gone with the ceremony but I'm sure she was in shock.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Quof]

Today, I was dictating using Dragon Speak, which I hate.  Speaking about a golf course, I used the word "divot".  The f*cking software wouldn't recognize the word, so I had to keep repeating it, slower and louder as I got more frustrated. At the end, I was yelling "divot", "divot" "divot".   Thankfully, I'm working from home today, so no one heard it.  

[Bort]

1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

Yeah. It was unreasonable but I don't quite see her as the "villain."  I see her as in denial.  She thought she could create rules that would make what happened "okay" in her mind but she kept moving the goalposts.  Neither one was ready to admit that the moment broke them. And even if he met this demand, it probably wouldn't be enough. 

I also think part of her was trying to make him make the call because that's what she thinks he wants.

 

29 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I'm sure that every Friends forum has drilled this into the ground, but it's not just his "friends".  It's his sister and college roommate involved.  (My college roommates are like my sisters!). So, yeah it's not as simple as, you can't see your friends when they're with Rachel (and one of them lives with Rachel!). Emily's deal was never going to work.

I'm not blaming her, it was just never going to work.  After Ross said the wrong name (which is obviously his fault), Emily shouldn't have gone with the ceremony but I'm sure she was in shock.

I actually kind of get the progression with Emily’s demands. She decided to stay married to Ross if he moved to London, thus would never see Rachel. But when he explained that he couldn’t move away from Ben, that’s when she came up with the “I’ll move to New York if you cut Rachel out of your life” edict. And really, she should’ve just gone ahead and cut bait when he said he wouldn’t move.

[princelina]

 

36 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I'm sure that every Friends forum has drilled this into the ground, but it's not just his "friends".  It's his sister and college roommate involved.  (My college roommates are like my sisters!). So, yeah it's not as simple as, you can't see your friends when they're with Rachel (and one of them lives with Rachel!). Emily's deal was never going to work.

I'm not blaming her, it was just never going to work.  After Ross said the wrong name (which is obviously his fault), Emily shouldn't have gone with the ceremony but I'm sure she was in shock.

My problem with this whole situation is that none of those geniuses could figure this out - when he says to them "What do I do? What?" and the answer is to tell her that you won't see Rachel alone, even though you might have to with the group.  But they're all just like 🤷‍♀️.  That irritates me 😄 

[WendyCR72]

7 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

It clearly didn't end the show, but I think that the show fundamentally changed when C & M got together.  Monica changed enormously.  I don't know why but Courteney Cox even fundamentally changed how she acted, as Monica.  C & M getting together is a good "jump the shark" analogy in my personal opinion.

I really enjoyed Season 5 when C & M were hiding from everyone, and then Ross finding out was of course, hysterical.  But Season 6, when Monica kind of became....... Chandler's master?  And Chandler kind of became Monica's whipping boy. I really think it didn't paint them in the best light.

Of course I still enjoy some episodes here and there after C & M get together, but my personal apex of the show is Season 5.

I fully own up to my bias as a fan of Chandler, Monica, and Chandler/Monica together.

With that out of the way, yes, the show did change once Chandler and Monica got together. But had they not and just stayed who they were from the show's onset, I think that would also have damaged the show, anyway. I realize it was just a sitcom, but a show with no character growth would be kind of sad. Maybe except for Seinfeld, but that lack of growth was on purpose, and those involved even said that, in actuality, their characters were awful people.

I don't think that is how TPTB at Friends wanted the six to be seen.

I do think TPTB were shocked at how much the audience loved the pairing, but a part of me wonders if they were still a fallback plan, because the natural course worked for them, IMO. They were friends - close ones at that [seriously, look at some episodes where Monica was sitting in the same chair as Chandler, all cozy, and that is when they were just friends], so the final leap didn't seem all that far-fetched.

I do agree that early/later Monica had a shift. It seems like fat Monica's behavior spilled over on to current Monica. At a loss as to why, myself.

But, again, I'm aware my own bias colors this post, and everyone has their own preferences, so all good!

[Ms Blue Jay]

Personally I think that the writers found Monica's shrieking and whining adorable and told her to play it up more.  I think they thought she was being really funny and really tried to lean into it.  But I think to people like me it came off as overbearing and annoying.

I know that the Seinfeld writers like to say that those four characters were horrible people, but with the exception of George, I don't agree with it at all.  The writers kind of slapped the fans' faces with the finale and that was their explanation.  It was a hard pill to swallow for many of us who actually related to the characters a great deal.  I don't watch people for 9 years because I hate them and think they're awful.  Not at all.

For me it's more that Chandler and Monica changed, than the show.  They changed so dramatically that the show did end up feeling different.  I understand the need for evolution, but, ehhh.  I preferred Monica not with Chandler and I preferred Chandler not with Monica, but then, that was what I was used to.

[ifionlyknew]

11 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I do think TPTB were shocked at how much the audience loved the pairing

I've read a couple of the Friends books and IIRC they had an inkling the pairing was going to be a big hit because of the audience reaction while they filmed the disclosure it was Monica in bed with Chandler.  And honestly once they paired them they more or less had to keep them together. They were already doing the on again/off again with Ross and Rachel and if they had had Monica and Chandler get involved and then break up it would have been hard to have them go back to being just friends.  

11 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Personally I think that the writers found Monica's shrieking and whining adorable and told her to play it up more.  I think they thought she was being really funny and really tried to lean into it.  But I think to people like me it came off as overbearing and annoying.

I do agree Monica became more shrill in later seasons.  What had once been her cute neuroses became annoying character flaws.  I still liked her but there were times she was just too extra.

11 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I know that the Seinfeld writers like to say that those four characters were horrible people, but with the exception of George, I don't agree with it at all.  The writers kind of slapped the fans' faces with the finale and that was their explanation.  It was a hard pill to swallow for many of us who actually related to the characters a great deal.  I don't watch people for 9 years because I hate them and think they're awful.  Not at all.

Seinfeld is one of those shows where you see it a certain way while watching it but when you rewatch it you see it differently. I would catch reruns after it went off the air but I have never done a rewatch from start to finish.  Do I hate the characters? No. Do I want to spend time with them? No.

 

[Ms Blue Jay]

2 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

Seinfeld is one of those shows where you see it a certain way while watching it but when you rewatch it you see it differently. I would catch reruns after it went off the air but I have never done a rewatch from start to finish.  Do I hate the characters? No. Do I want to spend time with them? No.

Curb Your Enthusiasm is a similar show with some of the same people behind it.  Many fans of the show, including myself, relate to Larry David's character a great deal.  But of course the writers will laugh it off and say "Larry's horrible".  No, the opposite; so many of us relate to him in so many ways.  I think it would be nice if these people acknowledged it a bit more instead of just insulting their own fanbase.  

[princelina]

3 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

Seinfeld is one of those shows where you see it a certain way while watching it but when you rewatch it you see it differently. I would catch reruns after it went off the air but I have never done a rewatch from start to finish.  Do I hate the characters? No. Do I want to spend time with them? No.

This is so true!  I will watch any Friends rerun any time, but have little interest in Seinfeld now.  Or for a more modern twist - I love Big Bang reruns but have no interest in Modern Family.  I have wondered about that - I think this is why!

[ifionlyknew]

9 minutes ago, princelina said:

This is so true!  I will watch any Friends rerun any time, but have little interest in Seinfeld now.  Or for a more modern twist - I love Big Bang reruns but have no interest in Modern Family.  I have wondered about that - I think this is why!

I've done a Big Bang rewatch a couple times and just recently did a Modern Family rewatch and I do no think I would watch Modern Family again.  It just wasn't as funny the second time around and most of the characters I couldn't find anything likable about them.

With Friends I felt like I knew them.  And there was that added twist of oh I can't wait to see what happens next. It was a serial comedy. The plotlines continued through episodes. 

[Kawaiiko]

Ross seems to have a knack for saying the worst things at the worst times. "I want to be with you in spite of all those things." What about the time I said we were on a break?" 

UGH. Rachel should've married someone outside of the group, like Phoebe ended up doing. Ross could have reconciled with Julie, or Bonnie, or Mona, or Charlie...

And while we are on the subject of that, Phoebe and Joey should have become a thing, and that way there would have been no such thing as the cringey, incestuous, and gross Joey/Rachel plotline. Phoebe and Joey were seriously like two birds of a feather.

Edited January 22, 2021 by YoukaiMoe

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, YoukaiMoe said:

UGH. Rachel should've married someone outside of the group, like Phoebe ended up doing. Ross could have reconciled with Julie, or Bonnie, or Mona, or Charlie...

I can't stand Charlie.  she's awful.  So, maybe she would be the best match for Ross.  LOL.

 

1 hour ago, YoukaiMoe said:

And while we are on the subject of that, Phoebe and Joey should have become a thing, and that way there would have been no such thing as the cringey, incestuous, and gross Joey/Rachel plotline. Phoebe and Joey were seriously like two birds of a feather.

There was a time I wanted Joey and Phoebe to get togehter, but now I feel like they each need someone more mature and smarter than they are for a partner or they wouldn't be able to survive.  I know that's really mean of me, but they dumbed Joey down so much, that I just don't think Phoebe would do it in keeping them up to an average of an average IQ.

[chitowngirl]

They might have put Phoebe and Joey together if the Joey spinoff wasn’t going to happen. They wanted Joey unattached.

[Llywela]

2 hours ago, YoukaiMoe said:

And while we are on the subject of that, Phoebe and Joey should have become a thing, and that way there would have been no such thing as the cringey, incestuous, and gross Joey/Rachel plotline. Phoebe and Joey were seriously like two birds of a feather.

I'm sorry, what exactly is incestuous about Joey and Rachel? They are no more related than Joey and Phoebe are. If you consider Joey/Rachel semi-incestuous just because they are in the same friend group, the same must surely be true of Joey/Phoebe, as they are also in that same friend group.

Joey and Rachel actually made a lot of sense, for a little while there. While they were living together and getting on so well, and Joey was being so supportive of Rachel's pregnancy, I could see it. But it was never going to be a real thing, so was never written to be a serious prospect. The show was too set on Ross/Rachel.

[WinnieWinkle]

I was always glad they didn't pair off Phoebe and Joey, not because they wouldn't have been a good match - arguably they could have been - but more because with 4 of the 6 friends paired off by the end it hust would have struck a really false note.  I also liked that Joey didn't end up with anyone - felt the same way about Raj on Big Bang Theory - not everyone gets married and it's not the end of the world when they don't!

 

[Bort]

1 hour ago, Llywela said:

Joey and Rachel actually made a lot of sense, for a little while there. While they were living together and getting on so well, and Joey was being so supportive of Rachel's pregnancy, I could see it. But it was never going to be a real thing, so was never written to be a serious prospect. The show was too set on Ross/Rachel.

I really wish the show would’ve had the guts to go with Joey and Rachel for the ending. But I guess the Joey spin-off and the Ross/Rachel clamoring put the kibosh on that but good.

[Snow Apple]

I hated Rachel/Joey while it ran, but in reruns, I find them a better couple than Ross/Rachel. Joey supports her and is friends with her. He wasn't crazy possessive. He never looked or talked down to her. He told her about the fashion company that was hiring. Ross would be happy if she kept being a waitress. Joey had no problem with a male nanny. 

It sounds like I hate Ross but I don't. I just don't think Ross and Rachel belong together romantically. 

Edited January 22, 2021 by Snow Apple

[Ms Blue Jay]

9 hours ago, Llywela said:

I'm sorry, what exactly is incestuous about Joey and Rachel? They are no more related than Joey and Phoebe are. If you consider Joey/Rachel semi-incestuous just because they are in the same friend group, the same must surely be true of Joey/Phoebe, as they are also in that same friend group.

Joey and Rachel actually made a lot of sense, for a little while there. While they were living together and getting on so well, and Joey was being so supportive of Rachel's pregnancy, I could see it. But it was never going to be a real thing, so was never written to be a serious prospect. The show was too set on Ross/Rachel.

I think that a lot of the audience, myself included, felt that Joey and Rachel had no chemistry, they kind of had a brotherly/sisterly relationship (they lived together as roommates) and not only that, but one of Joey's best friends Ross was married to her and they had a child together!

Phoebe doesn't have any of that baggage.

7 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

I hated Rachel/Joey while it ran, but in reruns, I find them a better couple than Ross/Rachel. Joey supports her and is friends with her. He wasn't crazy possessive. He never looked or talked down to her. He told her about the fashion company that was hiring. Ross would be happy if she kept being a waitress. Joey had no problem with a male nanny. 

I totally understand your points.  Joey was always a good friend to Rachel.  Joey slept around a lot, but he didn't exhibit the same 'fragile masculinity' or homophobia that Ross and Chandler showed sometimes.

Edited January 23, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Katy M]

8 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Ross was married to her

yes, technically, but not really.  

[Kawaiiko]

14 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I think that a lot of the audience, myself included, felt that Joey and Rachel had no chemistry, they kind of had a brotherly/sisterly relationship (they lived together as roommates) and not only that, but one of Joey's best friends Ross was married to her and they had a child together!

Phoebe doesn't have any of that baggage.

 

Yes, that was mainly the point I was trying to make. I probably should have explained that a little more XP

Edited January 23, 2021 by YoukaiMoe

[Kawaiiko]

On 1/22/2021 at 2:25 PM, Katy M said:

There was a time I wanted Joey and Phoebe to get together, but now I feel like they each need someone more mature and smarter than they are for a partner or they wouldn't be able to survive.  I know that's really mean of me, but they dumbed Joey down so much, that I just don't think Phoebe would do it in keeping them up to an average of an average IQ.

Too bad they made Joey as dumb as a brick. He started out as slightly dim, but by the end of the series he could barely count. 

[Kawaiiko]

On 1/23/2021 at 1:34 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

 but he didn't exhibit the same 'fragile masculinity' or homophobia that Ross and Chandler showed sometimes.

I always have thought that Ross is extremely homophobic. He forces his son to play with a G.I. Joe instead of a Barbie just because of the fact that he's not ok with it. I always have hated that. And the plotline where R & R hire the male nanny and Ross completely overlooks that the nanny was actually a really nice person, and just focuses on how he's a sensitive male. (Yes, although some of it might be from Carol leaving him for Susan, I still don't think it's ok to be homophobic.) Chandler definitely has shades of being homophobic, especially when he gets mistaken for gay. Jeez, some of the Friends need a morality refresher.

Edited January 25, 2021 by YoukaiMoe

[Ms Blue Jay]

15 minutes ago, YoukaiMoe said:

Chandler definitely has shades of being homophobic, especially when he gets mistaken for gay. Jeez, some of the Friends need a morality refresher.

Joey is naturally way more affectionate and he shows a lot of physical affection to Chandler and Chandler definitely shows more discomfort with it and even fear.

Joey is very happy to pretend to be Chandler's boyfriend when they lose Ben.  LOL.
Joey buys Chandler a bracelet and look at how Chandler responds.
 

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, YoukaiMoe said:

Jeez, some of the Friends need a morality refresher.

Your morality is not everyone's.  It's not OK to be mean to gay people. It is OK to not want others to think that you are gay, especially if you are not.

[Kawaiiko]

34 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Your morality is not everyone's.  It's not OK to be mean to gay people. It is OK to not want others to think that you are gay, especially if you are not.

I'm completely aware of that, and I did not mean to come off as that. Sorry.

[princelina]

4 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Joey is naturally way more affectionate and he shows a lot of physical affection to Chandler and Chandler definitely shows more discomfort with it and even fear.

Joey is very happy to pretend to be Chandler's boyfriend when they lose Ben.  LOL.
Joey buys Chandler a bracelet and look at how Chandler responds.
 

Hahaha I love that - "I pity the fool who wears my jewelry!" 😄😄😄 

I recently had to answer a trivia question about Mr T's famous line - I probably knew it back in the day, but I only remembered it from this episode of Friends!

[FilmTVGeek80]

On 1/23/2021 at 1:34 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Joey slept around a lot, but he didn't exhibit the same 'fragile masculinity' or homophobia that Ross and Chandler showed sometimes.

I bought the blu-ray of the series when quarantine first started last year and I've been watching the whole series again. I think if your definition of "homophobic" is making jokes about someone being "too girly"  or "too gay" all the characters have done it. Monica might be the biggest offender in that area. Joey might have been slightly better about it than Ross or Chandler but he certainly wasn't above basically calling Ross or Chandler too gay if they weren't doing something butch enough. In the episode TOW Ross's Thing, Chandler suggests to Phoebe which guy she should choose to go out with and Joey says "Sure, go with the sissy." When Phoebe says the guy she likes isn't a sissy his reply is "I meant Chandler." So, he definitely wasn't above jokes like that.

10 hours ago, YoukaiMoe said:

I always have thought that Ross is extremely homophobic. He forces his son to play with a G.I. Joe instead of a Barbie just because of the fact that he's not ok with it. I always have hated that. And the plotline where R & R hire the male nanny and Ross completely overlooks that the nanny was actually a really nice person, and just focuses on how he's a sensitive male.

I don't think either of those things make Ross homophobic. In both cases, he got taken down a peg at the end. I never found it that big of a deal that he didn't want Ben to play with the Barbie. His behavior with Sandy was gross. His like about "you've got to be at least bi" was horrible and offensive. But, at the end, he does explain why he was behaving like that.