All Episodes Talk

[Athena]

4 minutes ago, Elizabeth Anne said:

If they stick with the timeline established in Cheers, Frederick was born in 1988.  Which, yikes, means he is a venerable 34!  Not all that much younger than Frasier and Niles were meant  to be when the series Frasier started!

Trevor Einhorn who played Frederick is 34 this year and active as an actor. I am not sure how to feel about the revival but I actually would like Frederick played by Einhorn to be a regular or semi-regular. They could do a lot with that kind of dynamic similar to how Martin was with Frasier and Niles.

[Bort]

27 minutes ago, Athena said:

Trevor Einhorn who played Frederick is 34 this year and active as an actor. I am not sure how to feel about the revival but I actually would like Frederick played by Einhorn to be a regular or semi-regular. They could do a lot with that kind of dynamic similar to how Martin was with Frasier and Niles.

Part of that dynamic, though, was the clash between blue collar Martin and his white collar sons. Frederick wasn’t too terribly developed, as we only saw him once every two seasons, so they could possibly write that he picked a blue collar profession.

[Bethany]

I can't be the only Frasier fan who wondered if the new series would involve Frasier having to move in with Frederick for some reason to be determined.  An interesting twist (for an episode or two at least anyway) would be if Frasier were to have fallen on hard times financially and needed to move in with Freddy.  

One thing I hope they do with the new series is knock it off with the serial dating.  It was bad enough to see Frasier always ending up messing things up with women when he was in his 40s, to see him still desperately seeking love at 67 and never finding it wouldn't be something I want to watch.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Elizabeth Anne

[aghst]

Well I don't know if call-in radio is still a thing, especially when it's not political or sports talk radio.

Maybe Frasier tries a podcast if he had some notoriety?

Or he banked enough money from his radio days and he bought and held some tech stocks to almost the present day.

Or maybe he went back to practice and had a lot of well-off clients who worked for Amazon and MS and he treated them for 20 years or so.

[Annber03]

I could totally see him getting into the podcast game, trying to get a new kind of career going there. 

31 minutes ago, Elizabeth Anne said:

I can't be the only Frasier fan who wondered if the new series would involve Frasier having to move in with Frederick for some reason to be determined.  An interesting twist (for an episode or two at least anyway) would be if Frasier were to have fallen on hard times financially and needed to move in with Freddy.  

Oh, yes, that's long been the popular theory/suggestion of where this reboot could go. And I'd be good with that premise. It'd be a nice continuation of "Frasier" in that regard, and it'd be an interesting way to show what Frasier learned from his years living with Martin. And it'd provide a perfect opportunity to pay tribute to Mahoney as well. 

[Bethany]

13 minutes ago, aghst said:

Or he banked enough money from his radio days and he bought and held some tech stocks to almost the present day.

This reminds me of something I've wondered now and then.  How was it that Frasier was so wealthy?  It can't be because of the radio show - or at least not only because of that as he had the $$ to buy that lovely apartment when he relocated to Seattle.   I guess we're meant to assume that his psychiatrist practice in Boston provided him with a healthy bank account.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Elizabeth Anne

[aghst]

I think psychiatrists can have a lucrative practice in big cities.

They do have medical degrees and license and there's no shortage of discontent among the successful.

I just finished a re-watch of The Sopranos.  Tony was paying her hundreds per session.  At different times, she and Tony run into each other at fancy restaurants and hotels so she could afford to spend hundreds on meals and probably several hundred dollars a night 5-star hotels in mid 2000 dollars.

As for the new season, whenever it drops, I could believe that he'd be retired and wouldn't need to work at all.  He may still work, to try to help patients, but it's plausible he'd have a big retirement account.

If he isn't going to work, he'd have no reason to move to another city, unless they put him in a retirement community, which wouldn't be terribly interesting to watch.

They'd have to cast who are no more than in their 40s, especially female cast, so that it's not a show about senior citizens, even though the star of the show would be a senior citizen.

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Elizabeth Anne said:

I can't be the only Frasier fan who wondered if the new series would involve Frasier having to move in with Frederick for some reason to be determined.  An interesting twist (for an episode or two at least anyway) would be if Frasier were to have fallen on hard times financially and needed to move in with Freddy.  

One thing I hope they do with the new series is knock it off with the serial dating.  It was bad enough to see Frasier always ending up messing things up with women when he was in his 40s, to see him still desperately seeking love at 67 and never finding it wouldn't be something I want to watch.

I've really hoped that's what the new series is about. It would be really a really fun dynamic and continuation of the last series.

[Athena]

9 hours ago, Elizabeth Anne said:

 I guess we're meant to assume that his psychiatrist practice in Boston provided him with a healthy bank account.

In Cheers, it seemed that Frasier didn't really hurt for money. He was not exorbitant with it but both he and Lilith did well for themselves given their own careers. I don't think Lilith took any money from him with the divorce given her personality, the affair, and her own wealth.

[Gramto6]

I'm just not sure what I think about this reboot. I really don't want a whole bunch of new characters though I suppose the original cast may not be available. But I need some sort of continuity with the original show. 

I'll try a couple of episodes if they are available to me, I don't have any streaming apps other than Amazon Prime. 

[tessaray]

On 10/5/2022 at 10:00 PM, aghst said:

If he isn't going to work, he'd have no reason to move to another city, unless they put him in a retirement community, which wouldn't be terribly interesting to watch.

Lots of retired people move - to be closer to grandkids or if they just want nicer weather or cultural opportunities.  I can't quite see Frasier in Miami, though.  

I vote for Frasier buying a quaint inn in Vermont. 🙂

[chessiegal]

2 hours ago, tessaray said:

I vote for Frasier buying a quaint inn in Vermont. 🙂

And in the series finale he wakes up and tells Niles he had the craziest dream. 😉

[Ms Blue Jay]

Just started the movie "Wolf" from 1994 and look who is here!

[barshi50]

I just have a question regarding Eddie.

I know there were two dogs that played Eddie - Moose and his son ( don't know the name). If you look closely , you can tell them apart.

When did the son take over for Moose? What season? Or did they alternate?

If the son took over, what was the reason?

Thanks for the info!

[Bort]

The son was Enzo. I think he took over for “action sequences” at first as Moose aged, then permanently in I think season 9 or 10? By then Moose had turned completely white, he had gotten so old. Which was the ultimate reason.

[Bethany]

I saw an episode of Frasier the other night that I have never seen before.  Niles is in the hospital awaiting heart surgery.  It had a lot of short vignettes with things that had happened in the past, like little Frasier seeing baby Niles for the first time and Martin finding out his wife was dying.  It was very well done, touching but also funny. 

It also made me realize that the best thing for me about the show Frasier was when the spotlight wasn't directly on the character of Frasier.  Which really makes me wonder how they're going to handle the new series - Frasier in small doses works.  I hope they keep that in mind.

[Annber03]

I like that episode, too. It's not one I watch often, just 'cause, well, it's very bittersweet and rather sad in a lot of ways, but it is a good episode. I like the whole thing with everyone reflecting on their own experiences in the hospital, past and present. The bit with Martin getting the news about Hester gets me every time :'(. 

And yeah, you're right that a large part of what made the show work so well was that they had such a strong supporting cast to balance out and play off of Frasier. The show was named after him, but it didn't revolve solely around him. So yes, definitely something the reboot should consider as well. 

[jird]

RIP, Michael Moon. You were the best cannon operator.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/deadline.com/2022/10/robbie-coltrane-dies-harry-potter-james-bond-cracker-star-was-72-1235145166/amp/

[Egg McMuffin]

On 10/11/2022 at 1:41 AM, Annber03 said:

The bit with Martin getting the news about Hester gets me every time :'(. 

I always remember the Cheers episode where Hester threatened to kill Diane.

[andromeda331]

On 10/16/2022 at 7:07 PM, Egg McMuffin said:

I always remember the Cheers episode where Hester threatened to kill Diane.

Me too. Hester was a little scary there.

[Egg McMuffin]

And she was played by the late, great Nancy Marchand. I always have a tough time picturing her being married to Martin.

[StarBrand]

The creaters wanted to do a spinoff that was nothing at all like Cheers, so they changed almost everything. They had him move across the country, so there was a built-in excuse for the old Cheers buddies not appearing that often.  (Every one of them did at some point, except for Rebecca), had Frasier give up his practice to be host of a talk-in show, which fit because Frasier was a character in love with his own voice, so that made sense. The other inspiring change was his family life.  Casting DHP as Niles was a masterstroke, who was equally, if not more, neorotic than Frasier, (and there was David's gift for physical comedy).  And the fact that his Dad was absolutely nothing like his sons (they apparently got their intellectual brainpower from Mom) was a nice touch.  Front the start Frasier hit the ground running carving it's own unique path. And it ran for exactly as many seasons as Cheers. It made (and makes) me laugh, a lot. That's all you can ask for from a comedy, isn't it?

[StarBrand]

I do wonder why they pulled the trigger on the Daphne-Niles relationship iwhen they did.  I guess the producers couldn't have been sure exactly how much longer the series would go, so I guess they decided do that before it did.  I've never seen any show get so much humour out of romantic and sexual frustration. Niles's physical and verbal reactions to Daphne saying or doing anything suggestive were priceless, and he never did it the exact same way twice.  When they brought them together, Niles changed a little. He was still "Niles" as we'd seen him, but he was definitely more assertive. He had never been with any woman who hadn't emasculated him and held him back. Seeing them interact from Season 8 onward, free to express themselves with each other, was nice to watch, (especially when their lovey-dovey-ness would make Frasier and everybody else roll their eyes.)

[StarBrand]

The episodes in between when Daphne finds out about Niles (in the most offhand, anti-climactic way), and when they truly "start" their relationship ("Daphne Returns") are my favourites. Daphne started doing the things that Niles had been doing for years.  She caressed Niles hand a tad too long when treating a burn, ran away when being caught doing it, berating Martin for dating a widow because "people can't just do these things with people because you're all of a sudden attracted to them", wearing her sexy red dress for Niles the first time she got to be alone with him, then getting upset after the surprise shower "ruined" the moment (and her dress, eventually).

The ending to Season 7 was perfect.  Daphne choosing to run away with Niles (as if there were any doubt). Niles tells her to fasten her seat belt, and she responds with "fasten yours, Niles". It wasn't just that she called him by his first name, it was the tone of her voice and the look she gave him....as in "boy, are YOU in for the ride of your life..."

On 3/24/2019 at 6:39 PM, chessiegal said:

There are episodes I don't care for, including the one with Lilith's half-brother. I almost deleted it without re-watching, but stuck it out and found a few amusing moments. Niles as a character and DHP as an actor never fail for me.

I think one of the writers said in his blog later on that episode didn't work because Micheal Keaton didn't play the chracter as they had intended, for some reason. I'm not sure how true that is, as I don't remember that particular episode. Besides, bringing in just Lilith herself was always comedy gold....

[StarBrand]

On 3/26/2019 at 1:38 AM, tessaray said:

Frasier himself doesn't change all that much over the course of the show but the supporting characters do, which keeps things interesting.

My personal low for the show is the storyline written to accommodate Jane Leeves' pregnancy.  The fat shaming is cringe-worthy and I don't think the writers could get away with a similar plot today.  (Though I don't watch many sitcoms, so maybe they could/do?)  

Yes, they could have done that better, although they did come up with a nice reason for why she might feel insecure enough to start overeating-her feeling she couldn't possibly live up to Niles' angelic view of her.  He literally could not see one thing wrong with her, was still idolizing her as this perfect being.  Frasier had to remind tell Niles to stop putting her on so high of a pedestal, because if he kept doing that, he's ruin things before they had a chance to start.  Niles listened, to his benefit... things started...("It wasn't at all how I imagined it..")

[AD35]

On 10/16/2022 at 9:07 PM, Egg McMuffin said:

I always remember the Cheers episode where Hester threatened to kill Diane.

I've wondered what her reaction would have been having Lilith and Maris as her daughters-in-law. I recall Roz mentioning that fact to Martin and his reaction left no doubt that it wasn't pleasant.

[StarBrand]

On 10/16/2020 at 10:46 PM, Annber03 said:

And AGH, yes, the episode where Daphne accepts Donny's proposal. Niles' face there gets me every single time. If you wanted a picture of what actual heartbreak looked like, that would be it. 

There's that, and Martin saying "I really wish I could fix this for you, son..."

[StarBrand]

Since absolutely no one's mentioned this (at least in this forum)

Frasier-"You will RUE the day!"

Niles-"I DON'T CARE, NILES GOTTA HAVE IT!"

[Annber03]

3 hours ago, StarBrand said:

Since absolutely no one's mentioned this (at least in this forum)

Frasier-"You will RUE the day!"

Niles-"I DON'T CARE, NILES GOTTA HAVE IT!"

I love that episode :D. I love the moment when, after Martin finishes telling that story of his hellish plane ride* that involved them sliding down some foam thing or whatever, Niles responds with, "So...these stewardesses, were they also covered in foam?" XD. 

*Martin's story rants are the best. I've said it before, but I will forever love his rant about trying to sing "O Holy Night" at the Christmas pageant only to be interrupted by Eddie taking the baby Jesus doll and running off with it. 

5 hours ago, StarBrand said:

There's that, and Martin saying "I really wish I could fix this for you, son..."

Awwwwww, yes. That's one of the many reasons I love that episode, though - one minute Frasier and Martin are (rightly) criticizing Niles for the "advice" he gave Daphne regarding her visons, the next they're right there in the kitchen comforting him and being all sympathetic. It's a perfect example of what made the family dynamic so great between those three. 

As for Hester, heh, yeah, given I'd seen "Frasier" years before I saw "Cheers", it was surprising to me, to say the least, to hear (and later see, when I did watch "Cheers" in full) all those wild stories about her. 

But yeah, Mahoney really knew how to sell Martin's deep love and affection for Hester, to where it's so easy to forget about those stories with her when watching "Frasier".

6 hours ago, StarBrand said:

wearing her sexy red dress for Niles the first time she got to be alone with him, then getting upset after the surprise shower "ruined" the moment (and her dress, eventually).

Oh, that scene... "Oh, come on, Daphne, you were on to us." 

"No, really. You had me completely fooled."

And the therapist's seemingly simple question regarding Daphne freaking out over her ruined dress leading to her making that realization. I just love it. 

(Incidentally, I saw a Tumblr link once where someone did a parallel gif set. of that scene against the one with Daphne's "good actor" comment to Niles from "Moon Dance". I'd never really noticed the similarity before then, but it's quite poignant. 

Quote

I think one of the writers said in his blog later on that episode didn't work because Micheal Keaton didn't play the chracter as they had intended, for some reason. I'm not sure how true that is, as I don't remember that particular episode. Besides, bringing in just Lilith herself was always comedy gold....

I remember reading that, too, yeah. I want to say it was on Ken Levine's blog? I didn't mind Keaton's portrayal in that episode - I like the scene with him rattling off all the apostles, and I love later on when everyone at that gathering starts booing Frasier and Keaton's character says something like, "Now, now, remember, he is one of God's children." 

And Frasier responds with, "I AM NO SUCH THING!" 

But yeah, I dunno exactly how they thought Keaton's portrayal didn't quite capture what they wanted, but I can see where that might affect one's enjoyment of the episode as a result. 

[andromeda331]

My favorite Martin showing his love for Hester and his sons was letting them think he was the one who had the affair. Martin knew how much Niles and Frasier loved their mother and couldn't bring himself to ruin it. Even though he knew it would make things worse for him and his sons. 

[Annber03]

Yes. That's a really good episode, and I love that that one's so early on in the series. It says so much about their dynamic even then. 

[StarBrand]

Yes, I beieve that story about Keaton (and more) came from Ken Levine's blog. Lots of interesting tidbits there, BTW..

More good lines...

After Niles emerges from the bathroom covered in shaving cream..

Martin-"I know what must have happened! My hot and foamy must have exploded!"

Daphne-"He was a detective you know."

Apparently, everybody could NOT get past these lines for dozens of takes. Makes me think of the Roz The Snozz episode, which Levine directed, where Leeves and Pierce's laughter was completely genuine. "We have a couple of giant schousers"

9 hours ago, Annber03 said:

(Incidentally, I saw a Tumblr link once where someone did a parallel gif set. of that scene against the one with Daphne's "good actor" comment to Niles from "Moon Dance"

"Under the right circumstances, anybody can be fooled..."

[Ms Blue Jay]

I'm on Season 3 of my rewatch.

"High Crane Drifter" is a really good episode.    I never count it among my favourites, but I think that has to change.  Kelsey is so funny in how he goes so crazy over everyone annoying him.  Like his physical comedy when he physically kicks the guy out of Cafe Nervosa and he says "Sit down Niles" as if everything is perfectly calm and normal.  Also the extremely pained look on his face when Daphne is telling a story is so damn funny, and he's just in the background!

This hardly applies to my life post-pandemic now, but oh my god, I so agree with him that when you go to a store and the clerk answers the phone before serving you is just the height of rudeness.  I hate it!  Customer service managers need to train their staff out of that instinct.  People rarely have to call stores anyway, do they?  Sometimes I call to ask when they close, but the good thing is most stores post that information online, or they absolutely should.

Flesh is burning,

Nuh nuh nuh nuh nuh nuh.

"sounds like what you need, is an ETIQUETTE LESSON!"  And what is the rocker's name?  Johnny Chainsaw?

Edited October 21, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[StarBrand]

One of the series best early running gags was Daphne's random comments about her family that made everyone go "WTF?" "Eat your veggies, they'll be no brussel sprouts in hell! Have a lie down, they'll be NOOOOOO naps in hell!"

9 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I love the moment when, after Martin finishes telling that story of his hellish plane ride* that involved them sliding down some foam thing or whatever, Niles responds with, "So...these stewardesses, were they also covered in foam?" XD. 

Niles was so wound up, he was going after literally any female that came his way..including Roz --"Roz, I never noticed what a perky walk you have...", culminating in Frasier's perfectly timed splashing of Niles with water...

I sometimes wonder how often the actors went directly to the writers and asked "how the hell did you come up with this?"

Edited October 21, 2022 by StarBrand

[StarBrand]

13 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Flesh is burning,

Nuh nuh nuh nuh nuh nuh.

Strange thing, once you hear that, you keep hearing it your head.......

[StarBrand]

Some people hate "Rooms With A View". I can understand partly why-maybe people think of it as being the dreaded "very special episode", but to me, it doesn't play like that. The framing devce of the hospital  "remembering" past visits  was a nice concept, but it doesn't beat us to death over it.

In regards to the ending; Daphne's supposed psychic abilities were downplayed later in the series, but notice the way she pulls herself together, then calmly walks past a room that shows her and Niles in the future welcoming a 2nd child. It was like she saw or sensed that, and just knew in that second things would turn out just fine. At least, that's how I read it..

"Daphne, daphne, daphne..."

[StarBrand]

By the way, sorry for being a comment hog-I just got back into watching Frasier, and when I like shows, I feel the need to talk a lot about them. :)

I liked that when Daphne and Niles did get together, there were more than a few issues that needed to be ironed out (aside from both abruptly leaving suitors behind). One of them was Daphne's fear about Niles's idealized vision of her, which led her to overeat. But it was a legitimate thing for her to feel insecure about. And Niles 'was' still idolizing her, unable to see any fault in her whatsoever. In a way, that was sweet, but unhealthy.

Another legitimate fear was her being the "other woman". Niles quickly resolved that just by teling the truth-he had always thought about her no matter who he was with, and now that he was with her, he still did. He made it very clear he would never have been with anyone else if he'd known he could have her.

By the way, I'm watching S07E05 "The Dog That Rocks The Cradle", and there's the scene where the Frasier brothers purchase their Dad's future grave (as well as their own). I wonder, in the revival, if they will pay their Dad a visit there...who's on the right, because the left was his wife's side of the bed...

[Annber03]

13 hours ago, StarBrand said:

After Niles emerges from the bathroom covered in shaving cream..

Martin-"I know what must have happened! My hot and foamy must have exploded!"

Daphne-"He was a detective you know."

Apparently, everybody could NOT get past these lines for dozens of takes. 

I love how, in the episode itself, when it gets to that scene, after Leeves says the "He was a detective!" line, she closes her mouth in a way that indicates she's still trying to hold back a laugh :D. 

13 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

This hardly applies to my life post-pandemic now, but oh my god, I so agree with him that when you go to a store and the clerk answers the phone before serving you is just the height of rudeness.  I hate it!  Customer service managers need to train their staff out of that instinct.  

Oh, yeah, when I worked retail we had it drilled into us that the customers in the store came first. I did always find it a bit amusing, though, that we were taught that, and yet customers would come up to the counter to purchase their stuff, and they're yapping away on the phone. 

Quote

"sounds like what you need, is an ETIQUETTE LESSON!"  And what is the rocker's name?  Johnny Chainsaw?

"Chainsaw? Of the Newport Chainsaws?" 

And his reaction when the guy keeps interrupting his movie with the music. "Doesn't he ever stop for sex and drugs?!?!" 

I also love Niles trying to get all tough guy with the man at the dinner, clucking at him like a chicken and culminating in a great example of Pierce's physical comedy as he stumbles backwards into that table :p.

I like your take on "Rooms with a View" and how the show handles Niles and Daphne dealing with their respective insecurities after they get together. I like that the show touched on that a bit, too, these were logical things for them to worry about, and the fact Niles had been married twice would cause some anxiety on both ends (Daphne being that "someone else", as you note, and Niles naturally wanting to make this relationship work and having to shake off all the issues he'd had with his prior marriages), so it made sense for the show to acknowledge that and have them deal with that. In a lot of shows, once we see the couple get together it's either happily ever after or they have the breakup/drama back and forth (more often the latter). So I really appreciate that this show not only touched on those issues with Niles and Daphne, but had them work through them together. They didn't need to do the "break up/get back together" thing with them. I think that helped their relationship in the long run. 

[StarBrand]

I hear a lot of people always complaining when a "will they/won't they" relationship is allowed to happen, that "ruins" things. Horseshit.  The "curse of Moonlighting" always comes up, and I'm tired of hearing about it.  If the show goes to shit after a UST relationship happens, it's the fault of the writers for failing to keep it interesting. Neither Daphne nor Niles became uninteresting after they got together. There's only so long you can throw roadblocks in the way of such a pairing until it gets beyond silly.  Good on the writers for, once putting those two together, for allowing them to stay that way.

Besides, it wasn't the main romantic arc of the show. For those into prolonged romantic frustration, the show was more than happy to never allow Frasier any long-term romantic success for the show's duration. Come to think of it, I don't think anyone else did...

[Ms Blue Jay]

I think it's just a timing/coincidence thing.  Daphne and Niles finally got together in the 7th season, and by then, the writers just weren't that good anymore.  I don't know if the better writers left to make their own shows from Season 8-10 or whatever but something happened and it didn't have to do with Daphne and Niles getting together. The show just had poor writing period.

I really like Seasons 7 and 11 and Daphne and Niles are together for those ones.

I wouldn't be able to stand Niles pining for Daphne any longer.  It was already torturous as it was.

I still like "The Office" and "Friends" for a couple of seasons after two of the big couples get together.   If the writing for the shows were bad, I agree, it's not the fault of the big romantic pairing.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[StarBrand]

4 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I still like "The Office" and "Friends" for a couple of seasons after two of the big couples get together.   If the writing for the shows were bad, I agree, it's not the fault of the big romantic pairing.

I agree, if the show's quality went down after that, it was because the writers (whether all the original ones had left or not) perhaps had run out of ideas when it came to most of the characters. The change in the Daphne/Niles relationship gave them new angles to tackle in regards to them, which they did take advantage of.  But everyone else always seem to always revert back to the status quo (except perhaps for Roz, with her daughter, but even that didn't seem to change her or her lifestyle that much at all.)

[Ailianna]

34 minutes ago, StarBrand said:

Come to think of it, I don't think anyone else did...

Martin and Ronnie. They were together for a while before getting married in the finale.

[StarBrand]

I can't get over the way Daphne reacts to Niles at the end of "Back Talk". Niles can tell immediately something's different, but at that time, doesn't know exactly what...he says it's her hair.  Then as he walks away, the look she gives him....I caption it as "what the hell am I supposed to do now?".

18 minutes ago, Ailianna said:

Martin and Ronnie. They were together for a while before getting married in the finale.

Ah, I will have to do a rewatch of the last episodes, I seemed to have forgotten that...

[StarBrand]

Some cosidered it  ridiculous that Daphne could have been so unaware of Niles feelings, for so long. From personal experience, I can tell you it's not so far fetched. I have seen women seemingly act interested in me, but I dimissed it because I absolutely could NOT believe they'd want "me", or thought I had nothing to offer them, so it would be foolish to entertain such silly thoughts. Daphne more than likely always thought someone of Niles intelligence and social standing would never have interest in someone like herself.  I would have been as equally shocked as her had I discovered someone supposedly out of my league had actually liked me for that long. Having gotten over that shock, I most likely would have started thinking to myself "you big idiot! ".

[Annber03]

11 minutes ago, StarBrand said:

Some cosidered it  ridiculous that Daphne could have been so unaware of Niles feelings, for so long. From personal experience, I can tell you it's not so far fetched. I have seen women seemingly act interested in me, but I dimissed it because I absolutely could NOT believe they'd want "me", or thought I had nothing to offer them, so it would be foolish to entertain such silly thoughts. Daphne more than likely always thought someone of Niles intelligence and social standing would never have interest in someone like herself.  I would have been as equally shocked as her had I discovered someone supposedly out of my league had actually liked me for that long. Having gotten over that shock, I most likely would have started thinking to myself "you big idiot! ".

Yep. This is the main theory as to why Daphne reacted as she did. And I'm with you, I'd probably be the same way. Some people just don't always know how to respond to certain kinds of flirtation, either from people in general or from a certain type of person.

I also agree with the point that the fact Niles and Daphne weren't the main characters helped make it easier to handle the whole thing of them finally getting together. It's tougher when the "will they/won't they" couple are the main characters and the ones getting the largest amount of focus and screentime. An ensemble series allows you to spread the attention around a little more, so if one storyline or relationship or whatever doesn't appeal, there's usually another that will. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

I agree, the writers didn't make Daphne and Niles smug and obnoxious about being together, which Niles certainly could have been in his happiness.  Jim and Pam on The Office kind of had smug moments together that were kind of annoying.  They got very haughty once they got together.  Whereas, Niles acting haughty towards Frasier (and vice versa) is always funny to me.  That's how they always are.

If anything, the writers made a mistake of focusing on characters nobody gives a shit about at all, like Jean Smart (no offense to her) and her son Kirby, and all these other people that I don't even remember.  Kenny.  Etc.  All these random coworkers of Frasier's that we NEVER HEARD of or saw before, AD NAUSEAM.  They were trying too much, trying to do all these different things that didn't at all contribute to making the first 7 seasons of the show work so well.  Nobody complained that the show needed more characters or that our core 5 characters were stale.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[tessaray]

We liked Lorna/Lana and Kirby. The Teen Scene episode was a classic. 

I could have done without Kenny but someone had to be the manager and he lasted longer than the others. 

Eta: if you didn't like a secondary character on Frasier, you only had to wait half a season for most of them to go away.

[Egg McMuffin]

I liked season 11 and it was somewhat of a return to form. But Ronnie and Martin didn’t work for me. I like Wendie Malick a lot, but I wish she had been brought into the show in another capacity.

[StarBrand]

One thing that always strikes me about this show when I go back to watch the early episodes, was how fully formed it was from the start.  There's no midstream course corrections, no main characters that get dropped because they aren't workng. They also never suffered the loss (until after it was over) of any main actor, nor do I remember there ever really being even a slight chance someone would leave. 

I'm not sure how I feel about the revival. I haven't really gone out of my way to find out anything about it, or really who exactly will be involved. I do know it doesn't involve the original showrunners. That could prove to be the best thing about it involving people who can put a fresh spin on things.  There are dozens of good stories that can be told, a million variables to explore. Don't have the charactes stuck in time like they were in Gilmore Girls...

[StarBrand]

I watched "Back Talk" armed with the knowledge it was the episode where Daphne finds out about Niles (and I sought it out specifically for that reason), so I didn't react with the same surprise the studio audience, or anyone watching live must have when drugged-out Frasier lets the cat so casually out of the bag. One might have thought a dopey Frasier might come out with something he shouldn't, but by the end, things seem to be cleared up, and the audience might have suspected Fraiser would pass out before answering Daphne's question, but he does, and Daphne spends the rest of the season emotionally tied into knots.

Even going into the finale, people must have wondered if the writers were actually going to follow through. I had stopped watching for a season or two, but found myself watching the S7 finale , and I thought for certain the writers would find some way to keep the two apart. I couldn't believe my eyes and ears when they didn't.  There were a few bumps in the road, but after they got together, the writers let them stay together.  That, to me, was even more surprising...