Laurel Lance: Black Canary, Black Siren.

[HighwayFlower]

Its also hardly badass when you can strap the thing on anyone. My Grandma could use it. As a meta human power it makes sense. As a distraction disc you throw while still fighting it makes sense.

To just stand there with your mouth gapping open is ridiculous, and would have been for Sara too.

Edited September 29, 2015 by HighwayFlower

[kismet]

For me it's the posture that looks dumb and would look dumb on anyone. And that power just does not translate well to live action, I also find it kind of sexist. BC's power is to scream really loudly. I get that it's a sonic scream and could cause damage, but most of the time we associate someone screaming with that person being afraid.

 

That's another reason the sonic bombs worked for me, that was a device that put out a high pitched sonic sound, while Canary could continue to kick people asses without having to stop to pose.  

But posing is so important to vigilantism that is why you need to make sure your eyelashes are just the right amount of clumpy spread apart.

 

Its also hardly badass when you can strap the thing on anyone. My Grandma could use it. As a meta human power it makes sense. As a distraction disc you throw while still fighting it makes sense.

To just stand there with your mouth gapping open is ridiculous, and would have been for Sara too.

It sorta reminds me of the scene in Little Mermaid when Ariel's voice is stolen and put in the seashell. I keep on waiting for some bad guy to grab off the collar and then LL has to cover her mouth/neck with her hands when she realizes no more sound is coming out of it.

[tarotx]

I think LL will eventual have the Canary cry be a part of her. Maybe with magic. I know in other comics, the CC is a genetic mutation but wiki says in Justice League of America #219 and #220 (October and November 1983), the second Black Canary as an infant is cursed by the Wizard with a devastating Canary Cry. I can see that they can merge magic and some "science" to fuse Laurel and the collar.  I think the DC Foe The wizard might be one of the villains Arrow's DD is being modeled after. 

 

I wish Laurel would use legal talk when shes fighting. Maybe to pysch out the random villian or to pysch herself up. I want her to use what Laurel has to her advantage or to distinguish her as a character. I also wish She and Felicity would go into the fingerprint database and switch out fingerprints or change them up so these heroes (especially ADA Laurel and Mayor candidate Oliver) won't have to worry as much. And the fans can deal with BC's fingerless gloves better. 

Edited September 29, 2015 by tarotx

[kismet]

I think LL will eventual have the Canary cry be a part of her. Maybe with magic. I know in other comics, the CC is a genetic mutation but wiki says in Justice League of America #219 and #220 (October and November 1983), the second Black Canary as an infant is cursed by the Wizard with a devastating Canary Cry. I can see that they can merge magic and some "science" to fuse Laurel and the collar.  I think the DC Foe The wizard might be one of the villains Arrow's DD is being modeled after. 

So perhaps she is just practicing the stance for when that happens? It does take a lot of preparation to get the posing just right. :)

 

Thx for looking up the history.

[Primal Slayer]

Its also hardly badass when you can strap the thing on anyone. My Grandma could use it. As a meta human power it makes sense. As a distraction disc you throw while still fighting it makes sense.

To just stand there with your mouth gapping open is ridiculous, and would have been for Sara too.

What does that matter? Someone could say so and so looks badass in this or that costume. The costume comes off in the end. The collar doesn't make her look badass, she does that on her own. It may not look like it to some people just as it does for others.

[kismet]

I think my final statement on the Canary Cry, is they better somehow connect the Cry to LL's physical being otherwise its just a some "cool" choker collar/prop/weapon that can be stolen and used on anybody. Its not special or unique to her, if anyone can grab it off her neck & use it to their advantage. I don't care how they do it (magic, comics, science, cosmetic surgery, sticking her finger in an outlet, running with scissors, etc) just make it connected to her and only her if it is that important to the BC myth.

 

It's the same reason, I don't think of RP as the ATOM. He just wears the suit. Anyone can wear the suit. Now perhaps that he can shrink, I might change my mind. But as of the finale he was just a really smart guy that built a smart suit with some help from his smart friends. He was not a weapon or a superhero by virtue of wearing the suit. OQ & SL are well honed weapons. They are more than their suit - they don't even need their suits to excel at  & accomplish their missions. BA is a meta, so he has powers. LL & TQ just wear masks, they have no specialized unique skills yet that distinguish them from everyday heroes. At least TQ is sorta a trained assassin at this point & survived the LP. LL needs some special and a cool gadget alone is not the answer.

 

The Canary Cry at this point in the show is just a cool gadget & a weird posing stance. If the writers want me to think it is more, then they have to write a better story in s4.

Edited September 29, 2015 by kismet

[Delphi]

Thea was already proficient with archery. She has trophies in the sport.

[Sakura12]

The Canary Cry while part of BC is not the most important ability she has. She's supposed to be one of the best martial artists in the DC verse. Laurel is so far away from that she might as well be a different character, so she needs a specialized weapon that gives her an advantage. 

[Trini]

Well it also looks dumb because she has the Canary Cry Choker and my guess is the majority of the noise comes from that and not her actually vocal cords. I don't honestly remember if Cisco discussed her needing to actually scream or not to activate the device. So there is likely no need for her to actually scream, if she could simply press a button. Which makes is more practical & in-line with the type of show Arrow is....

 

But they chose to have Cisco create a tech piece for her so why does she actually need to scream? ...

 

I think it's really smart. She now has a hands-free weapon. And don't most people here think she needs all the help she can get?

 

I think my final statement on the Canary Cry, is they better somehow connect the Cry to LL's physical being otherwise its just a some "cool" choker collar/prop/weapon that can be stolen and used on anybody. Its not special or unique to her, if anyone can grab it off her neck & use it to their advantage. I don't care how they do it (magic, comics, science, cosmetic surgery, sticking her finger in an outlet, running with scissors, etc) just make it connected to her and only her if it is that important to the BC myth. ...

 

Well, it's unique in that she the only person to have one. Which is a good thing, since many have a problem with her "copying" from other heroes.

[Primal Slayer]

The Canary Cry while part of BC is not the most important ability she has. She's supposed to be one of the best martial artists in the DC verse. Laurel is so far away from that she might as well be a different character, so she needs a specialized weapon that gives her an advantage.

Which is why she continues to train.

[statsgirl]

Well it also looks dumb because she has the Canary Cry Choker and my guess is the majority of the noise comes from that and not her actually vocal cords. I don't honestly remember if Cisco discussed her needing to actually scream or not to activate the device. So there is likely no need for her to actually scream, if she could simply press a button. Which makes is more practical & in-line with the type of show Arrow is.

It seems to be another case of where comics canon doesn't work on a TV show.

 

Since it is a device, I think it would look really badass if she just elegantly reached up and touched a button, and then they all fall down.  But then, I'm not from the comics.

[Primal Slayer]

That's why they shouldve just had Laurel in Central City when the particle accelerater went off.

[tangerine95]

I doubt they would ever make Laurel a metahuman or give her the real canary cry.They have issues with using the one they have let alone as a actual superpower.Like Laurel uses it one day in a fight with thugs and the next day she doesn't use it in Nanda Parbat.Sara didn't use it much either.Not to mention how bad it looks on screen.It just doesn't work.

And it wouldn't be very smart to have someone with metahuman powers as a regular on Arrow and on the team since this is Oliver's show where he's just a human with amazing skills he actually earned.I need metahumans to be once a season at most kind of thing on Arrow.

[lemotomato]

Laurel as the only metahuman regular on Arrow wouldn't have worked in seasons 1-3, since the show was supposed to be grounded in reality. But with the introduction of "magic and mysticism" in season 4, I wouldn't be surprised if they end up giving her the actual Canary Cry.

Edited September 29, 2015 by lemotomato

[tarotx]

Dinah's "meta" power is the canary cry. There doesn't seem anything else. It's just like what Laurel's already doing except she can think the scream instead of pushing a button. And since at least in a JL story using Magic to give her the CC is Comic canon, Arrow should be able to do it. But a lot of things could fuse the CC to her. A meta human attack could cause it. 

[yellowfred]

Since it is a device, I think it would look really badass if she just elegantly reached up and touched a button, and then they all fall down.  But then, I'm not from the comics.

 

Yeah, that's pretty much how I was hoping they'd do it, if they were going to do it (personally, I was happy with the sonic grenade things).  I feel like, visually, it would have worked better if it weren't such a full body thing. The little semi-squat pose thing she does reminds me a bit too much of a hagraven from Skyrim and it looks like it takes a lot more effort than it really should for being a piece of tech.  I kind of wonder if there was concern, behind the scenes, that the sound effect wouldn't be enough to sell it, so they thought they needed a more dramatic looking physicality from her.  If that's the case, I hope they've changed their minds.

 

That being said, I actually appreciate that they've so far had her using it at the beginning of fights, as more of an ambush tactic, rather than in the middle.  To me, it's just good strategy that, if you can disable your opponent, you do it early.  

[Menrva]

All of you are so much more charitable in describing what Laurel looks like doing the canary cry than I'd be. I won't say what I think because it would likely offend some folks here and I am trying to be nice.

I'm hoping that I'll be able to merely suffer through Laurel's scenes this season rather than fast forward like last year. This is how I've adjusted my expectations...

[BkWurm1]

All of you are so much more charitable in describing what Laurel looks like doing the canary cry than I'd be.

 

I'm rather proud of the restraint shown. 

[HighwayFlower]

So.... I get a kudos for not describing her as looking like a shrieking vulture about to devour a decaying carcass?

[BkWurm1]

So.... I get a kudos for not describing her as looking like a shrieking vulture about to devour a decaying carcass?

Still better than what I was expecting. 

[dtissagirl]

There's an Activia joke in here somewhere.

[slayer2]

I think the big development for LL is LOT connected. That spoiler was from the time of SDCC and KC keeps hinting at LOT but says she cant say much.

Maybe she trained with Sara? Although Nyssa does have some time on her hands now that asshat is running the League.

Laurel as the only metahuman regular on Arrow wouldn't have worked in seasons 1-3, since the show was supposed to be grounded in reality. But with the introduction of "magic and mysticism" in season 4, I wouldn't be surprised if they end up giving her the actual Canary Cry.

I would love that. No more mechanical nonsense, God bless Cisco but hit her with a lightening bolt or something and let's get on with it. The Canary cry in a bottle as Sara had and as a Tiffany's necklace charm or whatever, as clever as it is it ain't working for me. Metahumans exist, we've seen it, merge the worlds and call it a freaking day.

That's why they shouldve just had Laurel in Central City when the particle accelerater went off.

This! Dammit! 20/20 hindsight.

Edited October 1, 2015 by slayer2

[aslightjump]

The Canary Cry on Arrow is just...odd. Some people think it looks pretty cool, though, so I'll let them have it. I think Laurel actually is screaming because when it trails off at the very in you can hear her, so maybe its activated by the vibration of her throat? A certain pitch of vibration, so it doesn't go off when she talks? 

 

As for the costume thing a few pages back, I actually really, really like her costume. Minus the buckles. It's like they shipped it off to Tetsuya Nomura at the last second. I really like the absence of "SHOOT ME HERE" cleavage. I wish she would black out her eyes. And what's with the weird snarkiness about KC doing her eyelashes strangely? She does that on her own time, and it's probably pretty mindless, so she could be using that time to plan, to think, to whatever. Laurel doesn't do it. Katie Cassidy does for aesthetics. 

 

I've only been on here once before but Laurel is my favorite character on the show. So, what I want to see this year: I would like to see Thea and Laurel reclaim at least some of the relationship they had in season one. I would not like to see her with a man, or anybody really. I would like to see her do lawyer things. I would like to see her train, but not with Oliver. I would really really like at least some internal debate about following the law vs vigilantism. Annnddd...I would like just one storyline that doesn't involve Sara or her father in any way. Just Laurel's. Actually no. Sara is fine. If I have to sit through one more Laurel/Quentin scene I will scream. 

[EmilyBettFan]

It's obvious why she doesn't want her eyes blacked out. It's because she doesn't want that on her face and to me it reeks of trying to be better than everyone. Thinking she's unique. She's really just a dominatrix. The whole styling of the suit and the makeup is what she's all about IMO.

Edited October 1, 2015 by EmilyBettFan

[HighwayFlower]

She should black out the eyes. It just looks weird that she doesn't. Kind of racoon-ish.

[Primal Slayer]

I am cool with the eyes not being blacked out but I am interested to see how it would look. I think if her suit was a little more feminine, adding the blackout would totally be the way to go for the mask, but there is already so much black I can see why Katie wanted to try to change things up.

[Chaser]

I saw a photo floating around of the eyes blacked out. I think it concept art, possibly from the S3 DVDs. It looked good.

Wish I could find it now.

[Trini]

I like that her eyes aren't blacked out. It looks more feminine; reminds me of the Catwoman and Batgirl masks.

[AyChihuahua]

The problem is that her outfit is not minus the buckles, and the buckles are ridiculously impractical.

[Primal Slayer]

I saw a photo floating around of the eyes blacked out. I think it concept art, possibly from the S3 DVDs. It looked good.

Wish I could find it now.

The concept art had the eyes blacked out. But the design had the costume a bit more sleeker. Maybe if they unzipped her jacket to the point where we can see the "fishnet"/lace top, it would help out.

 

If they don't want to give her a new costume, they should unzip the jacket some, get rid of the "garter belt" thing, add some stitching pattern to either her pants or boots, get rid of like 3 buckles on each boot.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Primal Slayer

[Starfish35]

Since we talked about the jacket the other day, I've started thinking she needs a different jacket altogether. Something closer to what Sara's was, something more open. (ETA: maybe something like KC is wearing in these pics from her website? http://tomboykc.com/prepping-for-fashion-week/) Keep the black undershirt, maybe with a zipper at the top. Get rid of the garter belt altogether, and different pants with lacing up the sides for the nod to the fishnets. Different boots, without all the straps and buckles (seriously, look at those things: https://instagram.com/p/8EDuMYFS3k/). Solid black gloves. Oh, and definitely black out the eyes.

I wish I could draw. I'd love to draw up some concept art of what's in my head. :(

ETA2: Fixed broken link

Edited October 1, 2015 by Starfish35

[kismet]

I am cool with the eyes not being blacked out but I am interested to see how it would look. I think if her suit was a little more feminine, adding the blackout would totally be the way to go for the mask, but there is already so much black I can see why Katie wanted to try to change things up.

I tend to agree with you on the blackening out of the eyes. I feel like Ive seen shots of her with blacked eyes, and it wasn't great (but it might have been concept art). I'm kinda neutral on the eye-blackening. But I do think the non-blackening does work for her. I feel like her eyes are situated in a way that the blackening of the eye might be too much. I wish they had given her a more feminine mask with perhaps smaller holes, so that the non-blackening would not have been such an issue. I do understand people's concerns that a lot of her eye is visible and she could be identifiable to criminals, especially considering her day job.

The concept art had the eyes blacked out. But the design had the costume a bit more sleeker. Maybe if they unzipped her jacket to the point where we can see the "fishnet"/lace top, it would help out.

 

If they don't want to give her a new costume, they should unzip the jacket some, get rid of the "garter belt" thing, add some stitching pattern to either her pants or boots, get rid of like 3 buckles on each boot.

After she explained all the details that went into the inner pievce, I was like why is her jacket never open to show all of this work? Obviously, when she is fighting the jacket needs to be zipped. But in the foundry, she could unzip it just a little. It's still impractical to have a bodysuit, but there is probably not a lot of other options that wouldn't ride up easily.

 

They need to get rid of so many buckles. They should have given her more stitching and less buckles. They went very hard with her costume and that is not doing her any favors. I don't need a heaping bossom that was too much on Sara's, but I needed something a little more feminine on LL, esp considering KC's body shape is more model & less curvy in general.

 

Since we talked about the jacket the other day, I've started thinking she needs a different jacket altogether. Something closer to what Sara's was, something more open. (ETA: maybe something like KC is wearing in these pics from her website? http://tomboykc.com/prepping-for-fashion-week/) Keep the black undershirt, maybe with a zipper at the top. Get rid of the garter belt altogether, and different pants with lacing up the sides for the nod to the fishnets. Different boots, without all the straps and buckles (seriously, look at those things: https://instagram.com/p/8EDuMYFS3k/). Solid black gloves. Oh, and definitely black out the eyes.

I wish I could draw. I'd love to draw up some concept art of what's in my head. :(

Yeah a different jacket would be nice. Or at least unzip the jacket or take the jacket off when she's not fighting

And what's with the weird snarkiness about KC doing her eyelashes strangely? She does that on her own time, and it's probably pretty mindless, so she could be using that time to plan, to think, to whatever. Laurel doesn't do it. Katie Cassidy does for aesthetics. 

 

I've only been on here once before but Laurel is my favorite character on the show. So, what I want to see this year: I would like to see Thea and Laurel reclaim at least some of the relationship they had in season one. I would not like to see her with a man, or anybody really. I would like to see her do lawyer things. I would like to see her train, but not with Oliver. I would really really like at least some internal debate about following the law vs vigilantism. Annnddd...I would like just one storyline that doesn't involve Sara or her father in any way. Just Laurel's. Actually no. Sara is fine. If I have to sit through one more Laurel/Quentin scene I will scream. 

The eyelashes thing didn't really bother me, until she told me how long it takes to do. I guess I could suspend my belief that it doesn't matter that it takes that long in real life. But I tend to be more pragmatic, so if she is needing to get dressed quickly to stop active crime, then I don't want her spending that much time applying mascara. So I apologize for the snark... but I feel like its just an impractical make-up application for a vigilante. If she never told me how long it took, I never would have felt the need to snark about it. Sometimes it's best to leave some things a mystery. 

 

I too would actually like to see a Laurel/Thea relationship. If she is going to friends with anybody this season, then Thea makes the most sense. I know other people want her friends with FS. I really don't see her having much in common with FS that would warrant them becoming friends. Friendly co-worker/teammates, yes - friends, not necessary. Whereas LL/TQ have a history, have chemistry and seem to have similar interests. They worked in s1, I have no idea why they dropped it in s2&3. I liked s1 LL, I wish we had more of her and less of s3 LL. Personally her scenes with QL, I think are her best in s2&3. I feel like they have a good energy. The writers blew that relationship up in s3 for dumb in-show & out-of-show reasons, which I think was a major disservice to the show & the characters.

[aslightjump]

I think Laurel and Felicity would work well together, but I agree with you on the friendship thing because Laurel is a little cold and standoffish (just because she's my favorite doesn't mean she's flawless). Laurel seems like a girl you have to know a long time to both get her to warm up to and warm up to yourself, but Felicity and Diggle and Laurel seemed to be heading that way towards the end of the season. Felicity and Diggle know how to work as a team, Laurel doesn't. If Laurel and Felicity interact a lot, that's something I hope Laurel could pick up from Felicity, or perhaps she has learned it in the time between seasons.

 

I loved season 2 Q/L, loved. But season 3 just did not work. There was way too much bad blood on both sides, and though I appreciated Laurel going back to her father and trying again and I appreciated Quentin calling her out on what she did...I can't explain it. I felt that Quentin punishing her was both justified and too much? And shoving that bottle into her hands at Sara's grave was disgusting. 

 

But part of that is Arrow, perhaps unknowingly, has set up an odd dynamic in the Lance family where her parents seem to love Sara way more than they love Laurel. I'm sure part of that is simply Sara being the one that was lost and then returned, and I don't doubt for a second that Quentin loves Laurel very much, but in the show's comics and even in the show there is this air of Sara being able to do no wrong and Laurel being able to do very little right. And Dinah is just...the less said the better. An overshare, but part of that is probably me projecting. I think PB and KC work extraordinarily well together - CL, AK, PB, and KC apparently had a lot of confabs about the Lance Family Four dynamic and it shows - and I wouldn't mind seeing a reconciliation but its not a priority for me as a LL fan. Seeing her train, seeing her and Speedy work out the kinks together, is. 

 

As for the makeup, last comment, I just choose to believe that its part of Laurel's game face and she does it in the time between her day job and heading to the Arrow Cave. Girl's gotta have some downtime. At the very least, if she's not going to black out her eyes, which:

It's obvious why she doesn't want her eyes blacked out. It's because she doesn't want that on her face and to me it reeks of trying to be better than everyone. Thinking she's unique. She's really just a dominatrix. The whole styling of the suit and the makeup is what she's all about IMO.

Wow.

 

...anyway, the extreme makeup makes her less recognizable.

 

Edit: no wait, going back to that quote because it's driving me nuts. Ignoring the fact that perhaps the eyes aren't blacked out because the suit is, as mentioned, extremely masculine and they didn't want it to appear even more so with the dark lip and eyes, ignoring the weird baseless knock against KC's character, ignoring the fact that she did not have the final say on her BC face, is there something inherently wrong with being a dominatrix?

Edited October 1, 2015 by aslightjump

[apinknightmare]

I think it's pretty obvious that her eyes aren't blacked out because she's literally up to her neck in black and she's got this huge-ass black mask that takes up half her face, and it would look terrible. It only bothers me because now she's not using that wig (thank god, it was terrible-but her hair is pretty recognizable), and she's got her stupid fingerless gloves, and a little more makeup doesn't make her face any less recognizeable. I get that it's not real, but she's an ADA-she out of all of them should probably be most concerned about keeping her identity a secret, but whatever.

As for the lashes, it's cool that she wanted a specific look, and I know clumpy mascara is a thing now for whatever reason, but it looks awful. If she wants a Twiggy look, she should just draw it on like Twiggy did.

[EmilyBettFan]

I think Laurel and Felicity would work well together, but I agree with you on the friendship thing because Laurel is a little cold and standoffish (just because she's my favorite doesn't mean she's flawless). Laurel seems like a girl you have to know a long time to both get her to warm up to and warm up to yourself, but Felicity and Diggle and Laurel seemed to be heading that way towards the end of the season. Felicity and Diggle know how to work as a team, Laurel doesn't. If Laurel and Felicity interact a lot, that's something I hope Laurel could pick up from Felicity, or perhaps she has learned it in the time between seasons.

I loved season 2 Q/L, loved. But season 3 just did not work. There was way too much bad blood on both sides, and though I appreciated Laurel going back to her father and trying again and I appreciated Quentin calling her out on what she did...I can't explain it. I felt that Quentin punishing her was both justified and too much? And shoving that bottle into her hands at Sara's grave was disgusting.

But part of that is Arrow, perhaps unknowingly, has set up an odd dynamic in the Lance family where her parents seem to love Sara way more than they love Laurel. I'm sure part of that is simply Sara being the one that was lost and then returned, and I don't doubt for a second that Quentin loves Laurel very much, but in the show's comics and even in the show there is this air of Sara being able to do no wrong and Laurel being able to do very little right. And Dinah is just...the less said the better. An overshare, but part of that is probably me projecting. I think PB and KC work extraordinarily well together - CL, AK, PB, and KC apparently had a lot of confabs about the Lance Family Four dynamic and it shows - and I wouldn't mind seeing a reconciliation but its not a priority for me as a LL fan. Seeing her train, seeing her and Speedy work out the kinks together, is.

As for the makeup, last comment, I just choose to believe that its part of Laurel's game face and she does it in the time between her day job and heading to the Arrow Cave. Girl's gotta have some downtime. At the very least, if she's not going to black out her eyes, which:

Wow.

...anyway, the extreme makeup makes her less recognizable.

Edit: no wait, going back to that quote because it's driving me nuts. Ignoring the fact that perhaps the eyes aren't blacked out because the suit is, as mentioned, extremely masculine and they didn't want it to appear even more so with the dark lip and eyes, ignoring the weird baseless knock against KC's character, ignoring the fact that she did not have the final say on her BC face, is there something inherently wrong with being a dominatrix?

I never said anything about being a dominatrix is a bad thing. That's just what she is to me. KC portrays the character as stiff and it's all about the asthetics. Every time I've heard her talk about the character she always mentions her lip stick or lashes. She never goes in depth about why Laurel does what she does as a fighter. It's more like "Laurel is a fighter and she is good at it." Where as all the other actors talk in depth about their character or their abilities.

I don't even know why it would be masculine. There are ways to make it not like that so it's not the fans fault when they see the costume as being very dominatrix like. I don't see where it would be masculine. You can't have her in fishnets it's not practical. I'm sure it's like that also because she remembers Caity saying how cold she was with her breasts out like that. So it's not far out to suggest that maybe she said to the costume designers to cover Laurel up more.

Nothing I said is far out. I mean do you really see KC wanting to have the black eye makeup around her eyes?

Edited October 1, 2015 by EmilyBettFan

[HighwayFlower]

Now that it was mentioned her costumes looks just like Edwards Sissorhands, that's all I see!

Edited October 1, 2015 by HighwayFlower

[dtissagirl]

As someone who actively spends time on her makeup -- anyone at all who admits they take 20 minutes doing their bottom lashes is gonna get snark from me. Because it's snark-worthy to the eyeballs. Eyelashes?

 

And yeah, I agree that she's easily recognizable with just the mask -- and no wig, no hood, no blacked out eyes. Any perp she ever met in court that takes a good look at her face on the streets can make her. Ironically, it's because they molded her mask in a way that enhances her facial features, not in a way to hide it.

[Menrva]

Since we talked about the jacket the other day, I've started thinking she needs a different jacket altogether. Something closer to what Sara's was, something more open. (ETA: maybe something like KC is wearing in these pics from her website? http://tomboykc.com/prepping-for-fashion-week/) Keep the black undershirt, maybe with a zipper at the top. Get rid of the garter belt altogether, and different pants with lacing up the sides for the nod to the fishnets. Different boots, without all the straps and buckles (seriously, look at those things: https://instagram.com/p/8EDuMYFS3k/). Solid black gloves. Oh, and definitely black out the eyes.

I wish I could draw. I'd love to draw up some concept art of what's in my head. :(

ETA2: Fixed broken link

It's funny that you mentioned this because I was thinking I should draw what I would like Laurel to wear. It's been on my mind since I'm currently sewing Halloween costumes, one of which is a comic book character (Deadpool) and I'm always looking at costumes to see how they're put together.

 

I think one of my obsessions with Laurel is that because I dislike her so much, but will never be rid of her and I apparently have no willpower when it comes to abandoning Arrow, is that I'm trying to find ways to explain her, improve her so that I can tolerate her better. And I keep thinking maybe there will come a day when instead of thinking "Ugh, Laurel" I will think, "Hey, it's Laurel."

 

Ok, who am I kidding. That'll never happen.

[Sakura12]

I know I should be nice but I really think it's the actress that is making me dislike this character. KC is just not bringing the Laurel character to life for me. Especially when the EP's say she's supposed be one way and I'm seeing KC portray her another way. There's a huge disconnect when they tell me Laurel's this warm, loving savior of the world, when I see an inherently selfish character that is cold and distant to everyone around on her. 

 

Sara came on able to show a warmth and vulnerability while also being a badass, that made her likable. I"m not saying CL is an amazing actress, she's not. But I think since she was a dancer she also used body language to show Sara's mood and emotions and that helped immensely in making Sara someone to root for.  KC holds her body like "Don't come near me or talk to me". That is not the character she's supposed to be playing according to the EP's. If she or they'd own up to that and stop telling me Laurel's warm and caring I might've actually liked her better. Laurel owning up to being a hard as nails, takes no crap from anyone type of person I could get behind. 

[dtissagirl]

I think one of my obsessions with Laurel is that because I dislike her so much, but will never be rid of her and I apparently have no willpower when it comes to abandoning Arrow, is that I'm trying to find ways to explain her, improve her so that I can tolerate her better.

 

Laurel fascinates me from an almost academic place. I've been over-analyzing fictionalized media / fictional characters for a really really really long time now, and I had never seen anything like what's happened here before. A character in a serialized open-ended piece that lost their narrative place to other characters, not once but twice, and still lived to tell the tale. It's mind-boggling to me. Which is why I'm gonna keep poking at it, because I extremely dislike it when I don't understand how stuff works.

Edited October 1, 2015 by dtissagirl

[Starfish35]

I think one of my obsessions with Laurel is that because I dislike her so much, but will never be rid of her and I apparently have no willpower when it comes to abandoning Arrow, is that I'm trying to find ways to explain her, improve her so that I can tolerate her better. And I keep thinking maybe there will come a day when instead of thinking "Ugh, Laurel" I will think, "Hey, it's Laurel."

 

Ok, who am I kidding. That'll never happen.

Ha yeah I totally get this. I have rewritten Laurel's backstory in my head so many times, both from the beginning and jumping off from different points in the existing canon. I've recast her. I've mentally redesigned her costume several times. I guess I just desperately wish that she had been a character that worked (for me - I know she has fans that enjoy her as she is), and somehow I just keep trying to fix it in my head, even though I know it will never make a bit of difference to what happens onscreen.

[Chaser]

I'm working on my apathy. It's annoying hard. It's way too easy for me to complain.

I've never had such a problem separating an actress or actor from a character. It's so hard for me with this one. I try and give KC the benefit of the doubt, but then she says something or tweets something and I'm back to wanting to complain.

Ugh.

[dtissagirl]

I've successfully upgraded from Laurel causing me rage to just plain mocking her for the hilarity. It's become my amusement, really, watching a group of professional storytellers being so completely unable to make a character fit into a narrative.

[Sakura12]

I haven't hated character as much as Laurel since Lana Lang on Smallville. However I didn't have problem with Kristen Kruek. I just hated that they were making it seem like Lana was more important than Clark. With Laurel it's a combination of everything, the actress, the character and the writing. 

 

Putting her stunt double out there to kick ass doesn't fix the issue with the character, that's like putting duct tape on something to cover it up. They still haven't figured out how to write Laurel outside of the mask. The way they write makes it seem like they want me to hate her, having her go 100 steps above just not telling her dad that Sara was dead was a horrible mistake. There is never a good time to tell someone a loved one died. Not telling them so they still think that person is alive and can't mourn their passing is much worse IMO. Then when she did tell Quentin, he didn't drop dead so she kept it from him for no reason. 

[Primal Slayer]

They really should've had Laurel/Thea bond more after Moiras death. Laurel has been one of the people in her life who has constantly been around and having be practically surrogate sisters to one another would've been totally believeable.

[looptab]

Well, Thea went and disappeared with Malcolm.  Also, I don't understand people saying that Thea and Laurel's relationship went forgotten: I remember more scenes with the two of them than with Diggle/Felicity in S3, and that was an actual, estabilished friendship. I can't say I remember a lot of Thea/Laurel in S1, apart from when Laurel helped Thea with her sentence and got her working at CNRI, and that were for a few episodes, IIRC.

Edited October 1, 2015 by looptab

[statsgirl]

I don't think that Laurel and Thea had a real friendship between them because Thea was 10 years younger and Laurel would have related to her as Oliver's little sister in the old days.  But I think they could have built something between them after Moira's death because Thea was alone and Laurel was essentially alone having lost both Sara and Dinah.

 

Short term it made sense that Thea was isolated into Malcolm/Oliver's storyline but long term, it would have helped (maybe) to have a couple of scenes of Laurel asking about Thea and wondering if she could do anything to help/

 

They really should've had Laurel/Thea bond more after Moiras death. Laurel has been one of the people in her life who has constantly been around and having be practically surrogate sisters to one another would've been totally believeable.

They've really done a bad job of integrating her into the show since season 2.  It's like when she lost her s1 storylines (crusading lawyer, love interest) they didn't know what to do with her.  And instead of sitting down and saying "We've got this iconic comic book character but it didn't work out the way we had planned. What can we do to be true to our storyline and the character?

 

Most of her storylines have been about giving Laurel something to do rather than integrating her into the show. The addiction storyline was very frustrating because in one scene she was driving drunk and threatening the arresting cop (and no consequences) or popping Daddy's pills, and then in another scene she was functioning perfectly well.  And then suddenly she was okay!

 

But she really wasn't okay because the addictive personality came back in s3 when she wanted to beat up people but except for one comment by Oliver in Canaries, it was never tied together.

 

I wish they would assign one writer (maybe Keto Shimizu who likes Laurel and has a Black Canary doll on her desk) to look at the upcoming Laurel storyline and integrate it into the show overall.  I think that would do more for me than a better costume, although removing the useless buckles would help.

[dtissagirl]

They need to find a way to put Laurel into the A-plot. All the Laurel/Thea scenes in the world won't matter if those scenes are peripheral to the A-plot. Laurel doesn't have a narrative role in Oliver's story, and that's a problem for any character on this show, because it's his story. Until they figure out an on-going narrative role for her in Oliver's story arc, she just doesn't belong to the story.

 

In S2 and S3, they kept giving Laurel peripheral plots that most of the time, keep her away from the A-plot. You know a side effect of that? The crazy amount of Laurel scenes that end up in the cutting room floor. Because this is Editing 101 -- if you're strapped for time, you cut the B- and C- plot first.

 

And hey, they have alternatives going forward. She's a lawyer, so come up with a reason for Oliver to need a lawyer on a regular basis -- like, you know,

becoming a politician

. Or, since Laurel's now a masked hero, give her a couple of villains that are after her personally, so that she'll need the team's help -- and the A-plot -- to go after/defeat.

 

But all we hear about her S4 role is Sara, which is still keeping Laurel in the periphery, so I can't help but think the writers are just going ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and making her B-plot material.

Edited October 1, 2015 by dtissagirl

[Chaser]

I'm still confused about how Sara is going to equal a season long journey for Laurel.

[Sakura12]

I would hope Laurel's getting a different arc in the second half of the season. She's spent 2.5 seasons pretty much being a small part of Sara's journey. If she's still part of Sara's story when Sara's over on LoT, then yeah I'm going to have to go with they don't care about the Laurel character at all.