Oliver Queen: The Arrow

[TanyaKay]

I understand he gets time off, but he's also pretty vocal about this show. He's highly competitive and he has said he wants Arrow to be the best show on TV. Surely he can't think what they are doing now makes it the best show on TV. I just feel bad for the guy because he puts his all into the show.

 

I was being a bit facetious about him wanting out but I do think he doesn't seem to have the same enthusiasm as last season or over the summer.

 

Being competitive is one thing and having job security for another 3 years is another thing  - a job that not only pays well but gives you a lot of access and exposure which is life blood for an actor. I don't think any actor would choose something random over sure work with guaranteed fame and exposure because showbiz is a very fickle business. You are only as good as your last job. Why do you think KC is sticking around despite getting shittiest story lines? Because it is a solid job with good money and exposure on TV 23 weeks a year.

[catrox14]

 

Being competitive is one thing and having job security for another 3 years is another thing  - a job that not only pays well but gives you a lot of access and exposure which is life blood for an actor. I don't think any actor would choose something random over sure work with guaranteed fame and exposure because showbiz is a very fickle business. You are only as good as your last job. Why do you think KC is sticking around despite getting shittiest story lines? Because it is a solid job with good money and exposure on TV 23 weeks a year.

 

 

Unless he is being offered better more lucrative things now. 

 

Obviously,  it's a solid job with good money. I do disagree to an extent that you are only as good as your last job. SA has some power here because he was the lead in the standard bearer show that got DC back on the map with a great adaptation of a comic book character. The success of Arrow is on his shoulders like no one else in the show. It's not been an ensemble piece to this point.  And if SA failed in his role, and Arrow failed as a show, The Flash doesn't see the light of day IMO...and maybe not even Gotham.

 

Obviously mileage varies but if the quality of the show falls off to a point that an actor loses enthusiasm and is just there for the paycheck and phones it in that will eventually seep through in the performance.  I just think Stephen deserves better than what is happening now.

[apinknightmare]

SA ultimately has no power here.

 

He's under contract, and as a professional it's within his best interest to represent the show to the best of his ability. He's doing that. It would be foolish for him to try to get out of his contract a) because he's the lead of the show - it's never, EVER going to happen, and b) it reflects poorly if he doesn't toe the company line, especially if he wants steady work like this in the future. For all we know he actually likes the direction the show is going in but is disappointed that fans don't feel the same way, so he's not posting as much because he's tired of negativity. Maybe he hates it. Maybe he's working weirder hours than he did before, maybe he's getting burnt out. We'll never know, unless he decides to write a tell-all down the line.

[calliope1975]

It seems like SA is less enthusiastic this year, but that could be for a ton of different reasons. It could also be that I read him as less enthusiastic because I'm less enthusiastic. I do think he was wildly excited over the summer and that waned when the poster came out and so many fans not only got mad but started altering the poster. I think there was a huge surge of excitement when the trailer got leaked early, but that crashed and burned at the end of episode one. 

 

I doubt he'll ever come out and say he's not happy with the direction of the show even if he is because that would be monumentally stupid. (see K. Heigl) And who knows, he could really believe this is the best work the whole crew has ever done. I just happen to disagree.

[Genki]

I've been thinking about Oliver's controlling nature, it has been backfiring on him quite a bit and making him come across as a bit of a hypocritical dick.

 

My take is 2-fold

 

1. Oliver has had some really horrific choices and events occur during his 5 years away, he has seen and experienced where the darkness leads and does not want anyone he cares about to go on that journey willingly. Felicity, Thea and even Laurel.

 

2. I think Oliver knows what he was when he was forced onto his journey, he was selfish, he lacked control and did whatever he wanted, that lead to the worst experiences of his life. As Oliver started to gain control he was better able to deal with the horror he was encountering, so of course he is never willing to give it up.

 

 So I'm giving him a pass on his actions with Laurel and Ted this week.  

 

I appreciate how he handles each new suspect in the whole killed Sara mess and the way he is handling Roy this season has been great even if it feels little unearned to me.

[Tangerine]

I keep wondering what it was Oliver went to talk to Felicity about at the end. Unless it was "I've been an idiot. Let's give it a go," I can't think of anything that would have helped and I don't think he believes he's ready to be with her yet. If it was to tell her that he knows he's 100 different kinds of screwed up, but he's improving and working on it, that's just dangling another maybe.

 

And while Oliver remains an emotionally stunted idiot, he did make huge strides in the last episode. Asides from talking openly and honestly with Diggle, at the end, he admitted to Roy that he wasn't ok and instead of shutting down and retreating in the foundry, he reached out for human connections.

 

I also have to give SA kudos for his reaction after Carrie said "You DO love me" after he saved her from the subway. You can't tell his facial expression much under the hood and mask, but I'm pretty sure I saw his eyes rolling under there.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Tangerine

[catrox14]

I keep wondering what it was Oliver went to talk to Felicity about at the end. Unless it was "I've been an idiot. Let's give it a go," I can't think of anything that would have helped and I don't think he believes he's ready to be with her yet. If it was to tell her that he knows he's 100 different kinds of screwed up, but he's improving and working on it, that's just dangling another maybe.

 

And while Oliver remains an emotionally stunted idiot, he did make huge strides in the last episode. Asides from talking openly and honestly with Diggle, at the end, he admitted to Roy that he wasn't ok and instead of shutting down and retreating in the foundry, he reached out for human connections.

 

I also have to give SA kudos for his reaction after Carrie said "You DO love me" after he saved her from the subway. You can't tell his facial expression much under the hood and mask, but I'm pretty sure I saw his eyes rolling under there.

I don't agree that Oliver telling g Felicity that he's working on himself is dangling maybes. He told her loves her and he told her not to make him say he doesn't love her. He hasn't been with anyone else is cm then. All he can do is say Yes I'm a screwed up mess, I love you and I'm figuring things out. But it's still Up to Felicity what she does with it.

[bethy]

And while Oliver remains an emotionally stunted idiot, he did make huge strides in the last episode. Asides from talking openly and honestly with Diggle, at the end, he admitted to Roy that he wasn't ok and instead of shutting down and retreating in the foundry, he reached out for human connections.

 

 

I agree on the growth. I felt a tug of sadness that Felicity wasn't going to be part of the little family dinner they had going on at the Diggles' place, but I think maybe Oliver needs to do some of his growing on his own, apart from Felicity for the moment. I liked him taking Diggle up on the invitation and taking Roy with him as an admission that he really doesn't want to die alone in the foundry.  Good boy.

[statsgirl]

I don't agree that Oliver telling g Felicity that he's working on himself is dangling maybes. He told her loves her and he told her not to make him say he doesn't love her. He hasn't been with anyone else is cm then. All he can do is say Yes I'm a screwed up mess, I love you and I'm figuring things out. But it's still Up to Felicity what she does with it.

But he also told her that he may never be in the place to have a relationship with her or anyone.  That still sounds like a maybe to me -- maybe he'll get to the stage where he can have a relationship with her or maybe he never will.

 

 

I agree on the growth. I felt a tug of sadness that Felicity wasn't going to be part of the little family dinner they had going on at the Diggles' place, but I think maybe Oliver needs to do some of his growing on his own, apart from Felicity for the moment. 

I agree, that's growth on Oliver's part. But Felicity is the one paying the price since she's the one excluded from the family dinner because of Oliver.

[Password]

Hang on was she left out because of Oliver or because she was busy? Or do you mean Dig didn't invite her because of Oliver.

[Genki]

I don't think she was left out because of Oliver, it circumstance this happens all the time with my friends. The dinner wasn't a planned event it was a last minute invitation to a friend, who brought along a mutual friend.

 

If they start having regular boys nights then serious side-eye, but in this case it was 2-fold growth for Oliver.

 

Seeking out to other people when he is hurt, rather than isolating himself.

And recognising someone else's pain and hurt, rather than focusing solely in his.

 

I also liked Oliver lashing out at the end, he needs to stop suppressing everything, allowing himself some emotions brings him closer to Oliver Queen.

[statsgirl]

Hang on was she left out because of Oliver or because she was busy? Or do you mean Dig didn't invite her because of Oliver.

Diggle knew she wasn't busy because she'd gone to help him and Oliver after the business dinner.  Then she went back to her office to work so she would conveniently be there for Oliver to see Ray kissing her.

 

Diggle invited him over for a late dinner when he got back from fighting Cupid.  Later, after attacking the table, Oliver took Roy with him when he went over.  I can understand why Diggle didn't invite Felicity because Oliver was "tied up in knots" because she wasn't waiting around for him and his maybes.

 

It is growth for Oliver, both in that he got physically angry, and that he channeled that anger into spending time with his friends instead of beating up his equipment.  But I think it sucks that Felicity is paying the real price for it.  She got rejected by three men that evening:  by Oliver in his speech to Cupid; by Ray walking away when she wanted to keep kissing; and by Diggle in being excluded from family times (although she didn't know the last but may suspect it's going on).

[bethy]

I absolutely get what you're saying, and it's too bad that Felicity got the short end of the stick on the dinner, but I'm OK with it for now, I think. Partially, because, sadly, that's what happens in real life when your friends break up - you're stuck in the middle trying to figure out how to negotiate loving both of them.  And as you noted, in this situation, it was Oliver who was suffering the most about their relationship, so he got the invitation. I'm also OK with it (again, for now) because I think part of Felicity's growth needs to come away from Oliver and the rest of the team. I feel like she's trying to figure out who she is apart from Oliver after having been consumed by him and his quest over the last couple of years. And that's good, by me.

 

I also feel like, in the breakup, Oliver got Diggle.  :) Not completely, obviously, because Felicity and Diggle are friends, and he clearly loves her.  But Oliver and Diggle were friends (or colleagues or co-conspirators or whatever) before Felicity came on the scene.  So it makes sense to me that Diggle's priority (if you will) is Oliver.  I wish there was someone like that for Felicity (Lyla, maybe? I would love that because she and Felicity are both awesome), but that's not a topic for this thread.

[statsgirl]

Oh totally Oliver got Diggle in the break-up, but Diggle didn't have to pick sides like that.  There were a number of times he could have support Felicity but he didn't.

 it was Oliver who was suffering the most about their relationship, so he got the invitation.

We see Oliver suffering because the show is about Oliver but I don't think  he was the one suffering the most.  We saw Oliver suffering because Felicity was doing something else when he wanted her and Diggle being sympathetic, suffering because she was going on a work dinner and Diggle being sympathetic, suffering when Diggle was being sympathetic and teling him if he didn't say anything Felicity would move on, suffering because Ray was kissing Felicity. And at the end, we got a scene of Oliver and Roy going into the light, warm room and being greeted by Diggle and Lyla. What we didn't see was Felicity alone in her office working and dealing with being rejected by the men in her life three times that day 

 

Taking the rest to the relationship thread.

Edited November 22, 2014 by statsgirl

[quarks]

Last season the show stated that the Queens still held a majority of the QC stock, but it was diluted in value so it was totally worthless.

 

This season, Ray Palmer had a throwaway line stating that the QC stock had gone up $10 in value. I assumed this meant that the QC stock was now worth something again and Oliver would be financially comfortable again. Also apparently Amell said somewhere or other that Oliver does have access to "four million."  I assumed that this was either a) because the QC stock was worth money again, b) Oliver DID have some common sense and set up other accounts elsewhere, but was being cautious to spend this money on Arrow supplies to continue to hide his secret identity, since otherwise people might want to know why a person who lost his company was still worth millions (even though in real life this could easily happen) or c) someone on the show realized "crap, how DID Oliver pay for that folding bow/tickets to Corto Maltese?  Oh, right. He has $4 million!" without explaining where this came from.

 

Shortly afterwards, however, Oliver told Thea that she didn't have enough money for the loft apartment or to bring back Verdant. That suggested to me that the Oliver secret account info was the real thing, and not the QC stock. Presumably, if the QC stock continues to go up in value, and if Oliver still has shares, and if QC pays out dividends, that will be Oliver's income.

 

I am aware that this entire post has several arguable and probably even flat out wrong points, but in my defense the script really hasn't given me much to work with here.

[Password]

Hahaha the effort is appreciated nonetheless because business on Arrow is a mess.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Limbo

[statsgirl]

I am aware that this entire post has several arguable and probably even flat out wrong points, but in my defense the script really hasn't given me much to work with here.

Even less than that to work with.  If Oliver has $4 million, why was Felicity working at Tech Village at the start of the season?  And why did Oliver hand-make the necklace for Diggle's baby, implying that he couldn't afford to buy something for her?  Sleeping in the lair so he can save his money for Arrow tech is good but the rest redefines the meaning of "cheap".

 

[dtissagirl]

The discussion about how Oliver feels about the QC name change on the 307 thread reminded me that I really really wish we'd got an actual scene of him reacting to the name itself, and not to Felicity standing on a podium with Palmer.

Sure, more and more I'm thinking they are going with a Felicity = QC parallel wrt things Oliver lost because of his own decisions. But it would have been nice if there was a line to Diggle, you know? "QC was so important to my mother, and now it's called something else." But this show seems so focused on making characters feel only one thing at a time, so they go out of their way to show Oliver is upset about Felicity, but gives us bupkis about QC. I got out of this episode thinking he doesn't give a damn about the Queen name legacy, because there was nothing in the text that made me think that. But I wish there were.

And I'm liking Oliver's development this season. A whole lot, more than any other character's. I'm legit liking it that he's feeling jealous, and is upset with Felicity, not because I like watching him suffer, but because before he's been so stoic, and he's so used to compartmentalizing all emotions, that it's *healthy* when he's pissed that Felicity is cozying up to Palmer. And I'm grateful that's he's telling some of it to Diggle, and that he's throwing crap at the foundry, and telling Roy he's not okay.

Because in the end, Oliver not being able to control his emotional reactions advances the identity theme plot arc. He needs to find a balance between being the Arrow [all control] and Oliver Queen [in his head, complete lack of control]. As tired as I am of the show using the term, Oliver's head was off the game watching Felicity move on, and that's A GOOD THING. It's proving that his previous logic -- that being with her was a distraction -- is faulty. Being without her is a distraction as well. And that is also gonna take finding a happy medium.

Edited November 23, 2014 by dancingnancy

[quarks]

Well, I did say my post had several arguable points. Hmm.

 

Let's try this:

 

1. When the season started, Oliver did not, in fact, have $4 million anywhere, and in "The Calm," the QC stock was still worthless which is why Oliver said he couldn't afford anything for the baby and why Felicity had to work a retail job.  He paid for the Corto Maltese tickets with a credit card. Or ARGUS paid for those.  Problem: This doesn't explain how Oliver could afford a collapsible bow or an Italian dinner.  Then, Ray Palmer took over QC, and the stock price rose, giving Oliver some income.  Problem: If the QC stock suddenly was worth something, then why couldn't Thea afford a nice loft, especially given that we were told in the pilot episode that people were (understandably) fleeing Starling and that real estate prices were falling as a result?

 

2. When the season started, Oliver did, in fact, have $4 million someplace, but was worried that if he spent that money on Felicity's salary a, it would be gone a lot faster, and he had no idea where else he could get the money, and b, people, and by people I mean the IRS, would start asking why an unemployed guy needed an assistant, potentially leading to all kinds of questions/assumptions.  Even just spending the money might lead to questions about why exactly he had chosen to hide 4 million away in various accounts, plus, he wanted to be frugal to ensure he had enough for Arrow expenses for several years.  Meanwhile, thanks to his background, he was unaware that Target sells all kinds of cute and affordable baby gifts, and assumed that baby gifts need to be in the thousands of dollars and feature fine jewelry, so he went with a handmade necklace instead of a much more practical diaper bag or a cute little Winnie the Pooh baby bath. Oh, wait. This is a WB show.  I take that back. A cute little Bugs Bunny baby bath. 

 

I can only do so much with what's been said on the show.

[statsgirl]

QC stock would only provide them an income when it started paying dividends, which most likely hasn't happened yet.  Thea had no money because she refused to sign the trust fund papers.  That tanked most of the Queen money but Oliver managed to stash some from his own trust funds that didn't go when QC crashed.

 

 

by people I mean the IRS, would start asking why an unemployed guy needed an assistant, potentially leading to all kinds of questions/assumptions.

Maybe they would assume that rich people couldn't do anything on their own (like their own laundry) and needed an assistant to do all that for him.

 

On the other hand, unless the money was in gold bars locked away somewhere, it would be earning interest which the IRS would be taxing anyway.  So putting Felicity and Diggle on salary would actually be providing a tax break for Oliver.

 

I think we've spent more time trying to figure this out than all the EPs put together.

Edited November 23, 2014 by statsgirl

[wonderwall]

Even if stock prices rose, Oliver wouldn't see that money unless QC started to pay dividends again (which I doubt they did before Ray came on board), or he sold said stock which I doubt he did... 

[foreverevolving]

This entire stocks discussion is bringing back my repressed nightmares that is my accounting classes..

[foreverevolving]

So to everyone who were saying it was out of character or idiotic or whatever for Oliver to knock over those stuff from the table..

umm turned out it wasn't the first time. yes this is a fanvid but i cant remember from which episode the scene is from and the reason behind it, i think it's season 1. point is... This is a something Oliver has done before, therefore can be considered as consistent to his character. 

Hack we can even consider this a character development that he just knocked those stuff over instead of the whole table.

 

http://youtu.be/-BO3pvJaRHI?t=2m40s

Edited November 24, 2014 by foreverevolving

[Lady Calypso]

And I'm liking Oliver's development this season. A whole lot, more than any other character's. I'm legit liking it that he's feeling jealous, and is upset with Felicity, not because I like watching him suffer, but because before he's been so stoic, and he's so used to compartmentalizing all emotions, that it's *healthy* when he's pissed that Felicity is cozying up to Palmer. And I'm grateful that's he's telling some of it to Diggle, and that he's throwing crap at the foundry, and telling Roy he's not okay.

 

 

So, I've been thinking of Oliver's actions this season, and even a bit last season, in regards to Felicity. Actually, not just Felicity, but everything up to this point, and I can't fault him for his actions (nor can I fault Felicity for feeling frustrated and not wanting to make any move because it's Oliver's turn). Oliver's come a long way, with everything that has happened to him. His last seven-eight years has been pretty crappy and he's had to deal with more than anyone should have to deal with. He's almost been killed countless times, he's lost most people around him, he's had to live in (almost) isolation from most people for five years, he was forced into becoming a killer and had to grow up in very unusual circumstances, etc. It's no wonder he has been very stoic, protecting himself and his feelings, but it doesn't come from a selfish place. I read into him doing this to protect others from himself. Well, I guess that much is obvious (especially if we look at Laurel, whose actions at the moment seem completely selfish, not that that's even a totally bad thing but....) but it's in character of Oliver to push away any hints of a relationship that could go somewhere. 

 

Felicity obviously has the right to feel awkward around Oliver, feel frustrated and make him make the first move. She knows who he is, yes, but it doesn't make her a bad person in any way to move away from Team Arrow a bit and potentially explore something with Ray (who is obviously a lot like Oliver). Felicity is still part of the team, but with Oliver pushing her away and now Diggle taking his side, Felicity has the right to express her feelings and do what she wants. What Oliver did to Felicity was shitty, yes, but it's probably been a while since he's had to deal with conflicting emotions. He's always had his mom and Thea, so letting them in isn't as big of a problem (although he did lie for a long time to them to protect them) but he still hasn't let people in since coming back from the island. He's never been as open as he has been this season (well, except for last season with yelling at Laurel in the hallway...which would have been much better if that subplot was done differently). So, I'm happy for the progress on Oliver's development. 

 

Oliver doesn't seem like the guy to get jealous very easily. I remember very little about the Laurel/Tommy/Oliver triangle from the first season, but I do remember him sleeping with Laurel but nothing ever coming out of that afterward. It was almost like pity screw, as if he was saying 'I had residual feelings for you on the island, on top of regret and humiliation for screwing your sister, so now that she's not here, let's see if there's anything that will come out of this. No? Ok then'. Ok, maybe pity isn't the right word, but it didn't feel like it was done out of any deep emotions. Of course, now we know only the showrunners and KC are still aboard the Lauriver train, but still.  

 

The show may be doing some things wrong this season, but the growth of Oliver is actually not one of them. In fact, it's the bright shining spot out of this season for me. And we can thank Felicity for that absolutely. Without his love for her, as well as Diggle, he would still be closed off, lying and not dealing with his issues. I stand by that he needs a therapist to talk things out. Diggle's great and all and I love how he's there for Oliver, but he needs a neutral third party as well. Is he better? No, not quite. He still has a ways to go in dealing with his issues. But is he progressing? Yes, absolutely. There's no doubt that Olicity is endgame at this point. The writers know it, SA and EBR probably know it, and everyone that's not the showrunners, KC or her fans are happily along for the ride. Sure, this dreaded love triangle is one that we don't want, but it's still a television show. Unfortunately, cliches like this will happen to our favourite couples and it will, more often than not, be absolute shit. But I'm interested in it because it's given Oliver growth that he hasn't had; he's on a path that we haven't seen him on, and it also shows Felicity in a setting that's not Team Arrow. We see both characters growing and yes, I'd love for them to just get together. However, it would have been out of character for Oliver to form a relationship this soon. It may be a slow progression that we all just want sped up, but it's one that is necessary. The writing isn't top notch, but I get where they want to go with this. Because once they get together, I'd bet they'll stay together....

 

Ok, I would HOPE they stay together.But really, Oliver's slowly progressing, moving past his issues and allowing people in again, and it's fascinating to see. Now, if only he would tell Thea that he's The Arrow and have Quentin popping in, saying 'Oh, I know you are'. Then we'd all be happy campers!

[Genki]

So, I've been thinking of Oliver's actions this season, and even a bit last season, in regards to Felicity. Actually, not just Felicity, but everything up to this point, and I can't fault him for his actions (nor can I fault Felicity for feeling frustrated and not wanting to make any move because it's Oliver's turn). Oliver's come a long way, with everything that has happened to him. His last seven-eight years has been pretty crappy and he's had to deal with more than anyone should have to deal with. He's almost been killed countless times, he's lost most people around him, he's had to live in (almost) isolation from most people for five years, he was forced into becoming a killer and had to grow up in very unusual circumstances, etc. It's no wonder he has been very stoic, protecting himself and his feelings, but it doesn't come from a selfish place. I read into him doing this to protect others from himself. Well, I guess that much is obvious (especially if we look at Laurel, whose actions at the moment seem completely selfish, not that that's even a totally bad thing but....) but it's in character of Oliver to push away any hints of a relationship that could go somewhere. 

 

Totally agree with your post, but especially this. It must take an extraordinary force of will for Oliver to keep going with his mission after each and every loss. Failing to stop the undertaking, Tommy's death, Moira's death, Slade, Thea leaving, Sara's death. Sure he has some set backs and occasionally needs encouragement, but he get back up and keeps fighting.

 

Oliver knows he is broken and he is still trying and I think Stephen is doing a fantastic job of conveying Oliver's struggles this season. We know where he is at emotionally and mentally.

 

This is why all the Ray comparisons, for me seem superficial. When has he ever had to face the adversity and challenges and losses that Oliver has. He is less than Oliver-lite. And other's "journey" just seem so self indulgent in when aligned with Oliver's (and Sara's). In real life I would say suffering is subjective, and I don't usually compare, between people, but this is TV and the showrunners  are asking me to draw comparisons.

 

I do hope (but doubt, based on spoilers) that more stuff forces Oliver to be, and interact with, people outside of the Arrow cave. In the bitterness thread someone said killing off Tommy an Moira forced away some of the grounding in reality and I have to agree. I would even welcome occasional ( 2 episodes a season) interaction with the kid because it would force Oliver to forego the missions in a way that can't happen now because everyone either knows the secret or is on their own hero's journey. 

 

I miss being entertained by Oliver trying to balance normal life with the hood and as much as I want him to be honest with Thea, once she knows there is only Captain Lance who doesn't know the secret and I really think he does "know".

[BkWurm1]

This is why all the Ray comparisons, for me seem superficial. When has he ever had to face the adversity and challenges and losses that Oliver has.

 

To be fair we have no idea what Ray's backstory is.  He's already on the path to either villain or vigilante.  Something is driving him.  It's probably that little unearned viewer fore knowledge of the character that allows so easily for comparisons. 

[Password]

I also think it's too early to compare Ray and Oliver's booboos. But I think we can say in terms of quantity, Oliver has suffered the most of any characters we've seen, I assume Ray included. (Not counting Sara because, like I said, seen). We'll see what Ray's emotional and mental trauma does to his everyday life. But I do think in comparison it will be Oliver-lite.

[Genki]

To be fair we have no idea what Ray's backstory is.  He's already on the path to either villain or vigilante.  Something is driving him.  It's probably that little unearned viewer fore knowledge of the character that allows so easily for comparisons. 

 

 

I also think it's too early to compare Ray and Oliver's booboos. But I think we can say in terms of quantity, Oliver has suffered the most of any characters we've seen, I assume Ray included. (Not counting Sara because, like I said, seen). We'll see what Ray's emotional and mental trauma does to his everyday life. But I do think in comparison it will be Oliver-lite.

 

 

That true and fair enough. Usually there are 2 basic origin stories for hero, 1) overcomes adversity (tragedy) or 2) has amazing power, wants to help people, both perfectly legitimate.

 

Based on DC wiki, Ray Palmer seems to fall into category 2. Who knows the show may surprise, but for me as of right now, I just feel that in all his broody, isolating manpain, Oliver must be at his core a hopeful character because why else would he keep doing what he does?

 

He is trying to right wrongs, first his fathers, then any that he can, or even if he is trying to atone, or get back his humanity for terrible things that he has done, it means that he believes he can. Also the steps he is actively taking like with Thea and Roy and not isolating himself. I really feel he deserves recognition for it.

 

So currently Ray and Ray comparisons irritate me, especially as the third in the Triangle. I think had it been Barry I would have enjoyed it immensely. Also if Spec is correct about Post Hiatus eps there will be a lot of focus on origins stories both of which I do not want to see. 

 

Probably some of this should go in the bitterness thread...whoops!

[SonofaBiscuit]

One of the things that has disappointed me this season is that Oliver hasn't really opened up much about his missing five years.  I had high hopes early on when he told Felicity that he wasn't always on Lian Yu and when he told Thea about their father making it to the life raft before committing suicide, but things have pretty much stalled since then.  I won't expand on this much since this part probably belongs in the Hopes & Fears thread, but I really hope that Oliver begins to reveal more details to Dig, Felicity, and Thea regarding his time away.

[Genki]

One of the things that has disappointed me this season is that Oliver hasn't really opened up much about his missing five years.  I had high hopes early on when he told Felicity that he wasn't always on Lian Yu and when he told Thea about their father making it to the life raft before committing suicide, but things have pretty much stalled since then.  I won't expand on this much since this part probably belongs in the Hopes & Fears thread, but I really hope that Oliver begins to reveal more details to Dig, Felicity, and Thea regarding his time away.

 

 

I know what you mean...Oliver basically teased it again in Flash 1.08

 

 

"I’ve been living this life for almost 8 years. Encountering things you cannot even fathom. And I’m still here. Not because super speed kept me out of the ground. It was because I realized I needed to keep learning, keep training, keep getting smarter. And until you get that, despite your best intentions, you’ll do more harm than good."

 

Show more of this please! (Hong Kong flash back totally needs some training scenes, maybe Katana with a sword, Maseo teaching him to be a better spy.)

 

Also probably explains his gotta be the Arrow attitude, needed it to survive, but now he needs to get smarter about being a real boy, so he can live.

[Trini]

Question: About how old is Oliver supposed to be?

[statsgirl]

He was born in 1985 like Tommy and Laurel. Sara was born 2 years later.

[tv echo]

The jbuffyangel review of "The Brave and the Bold" episode (posted in the Starling City News thread here) includes a really detailed analysis of Oliver's character (in her opinion, of course).  It's worth a read.

Edited December 6, 2014 by tv echo

[catrox14]

I think Oliver's past is being intentionally teased it out to cover a 5 year arc. If the show gets cancelled I suspect we would see a ramp up about his past to get him to Green Arrow. IMO it would be a damn shame if they cancelled the show without that closure.  Unless we got a movie to close it out.

[foreverevolving]

I think Oliver's past is being intentionally teased it out to cover a 5 year arc. If the show gets cancelled I suspect we would see a ramp up about his past to get him to Green Arrow. IMO it would be a damn shame if they cancelled the show without that closure.  Unless we got a movie to close it out.

Arrow's not gonna get canceled (Look at the VD ratings! they're low!). it is one of CW most watched shows, easily in its top 5, probably an actual money making machine for them.. so I think we can all rest assured it's gonna be around until season 5.. at least.

Edited December 6, 2014 by foreverevolving

[tv echo]

OLIVER's BOWS

Oliver has used at least five bows on the show so far:

 

1.  Longbow (season 1 flashbacks) - On the island, Yao Fei used a longbow, which was subsequently used by both Shado and Oliver. 

 

2.  Recurve bow (season 1) - In season 1, Oliver used a customized, "oddly short" recurve bow which he brought back from the island.  The origins of this bow are unknown, although there's speculation that it was made by him or one of his island companions.  This bow "met its end in 'Darkness on the Edge of Town', when it was destroyed by Malcolm Merlyn".

 

3.  Superbow (season 2) - This bow is a customized Oneida Kestrel compound bow, which Felicity had custom made for Oliver.  It was presented to him in the newly renovated Arrowcave when he returned to the city at the beginning of season 2.  This bow has cams like a compound bow but has limbs shaped like a recurve bow.  "Most viewers had never seen a bow like the Kestrel, and everyone was really excited about it."

 

4.  Modified superbow (season 2) - After Slade's army was defeated, Oliver used a modifed version of his superbow.  This bow "unfurls to its full length when needed, but is otherwise 'curled' into a smaller size".

 

5.  Handmade bow (season 3) - In the "Corto Maltese" episode, Oliver made his own bow (since he could bring along no weapons on the plane).

 

In addition, Malcolm, Nyssa and the LOA use PSE Chaos AD compound bows, painted black:

 

http://arrow.wikia.com/wiki/Oliver_Queen%27s_bow
http://www.archery360.com/2013/10/second-season-arrow-debuts-superbow/
http://www.archery360.com/2014/10/exclusive-arrow-archery-expert-talks-season-3/

Edited December 10, 2014 by tv echo

[Ariah]

And now I need me some Kestrel...

[ostentatious]

From the Spoiler Discussion thread, nothing at all spoilery about this:

 

I wonder why the EP's decided to make Quentin a captain at all, since he seems to spend most of his time in the field anyway, apparently being one of the only cops on scene at every crime while personally liaising with the Arrow. Not to mention he has to put up with Laurel all the time. No wonder he's exhausted.

 

I think it's just for thematic consistency and to mirror Oliver.

 

Oliver, as the Arrow, and Quentin, as a beat cop or detective, are out in the field largely because they like it. Others can probably do a perfectly fine job on the beat. Are either Oliver or Quentin making best use of themselves and their abilities and resources by not delegating and by resenting any sort of managerial duties?

 

I think that if Oliver is honest with himself, if what he wants to do is to do good, Oliver Queen is better positioned for that than some guy who puts arrows into people. Oliver Queen had (and will likely have again) resources, connections, the power of his name. He doesn't *want* to work with that, probably because it's intimidating in many ways. Street work is something he can get his head around easily. Being the head of the Queen family, replacing his father, isn't. Similarly, being the Captain is a lot of paperwork and responsibility, and is not fun and thrilling. But if Quentin is the best man for that more important, more impactful (I know, I know, don't say "impactful") role, isn't it irresponsible for him to avoid it just because he's intimidated by it and it isn't as exciting as what he's used to doing?

[Kordi]

In his recent review of 3x08, Matt Tucker makes some ooints regarding Oliver's character that I find very insightful:

"As of late, Oliver has been a rather big a-hole, quite frankly. At first glance, it appeared to be heightened purely for this two-night event. He reluctantly offered to help Barry in Central City at Felicity’s insistence, and when he did, he chose that time-honored tradition of being the gruff mentor looking down his nose at the whimsical antics of his charge. Then, Barry and the Labs crew (the Labradors? The Labrats? We need something better than Team Flash.) show up in Starling to help and Oliver treats it like he just got thrown out of his room so that his visiting cousin has a bed for the week during Christmas family time. It seemed like huge regression for the character all for the sake of setting up the different sides of the conflict between he and Barry.

It’s more than that, though. His dogged pursuit of tracking Thea down, his unilateral decision to effectively bench Diggle at the start of the season, his denial to aid Laurel in her pursuits, and his seething jealousy and inactivity regarding his romantic feelings for Felicity. Everyone is moving on to different things in their lives, not abandoning their joint cause, but actually taking part in the lives they are protecting, and rightly or wrongly, Oliver feels like he can’t do that. This hour, he chalks that up to losing his humanity, something reinforced by the flashbacks with Waller learning how to torture, as well as the castigation of his methods by Joe West, Harrison Wells, and Barry. It’s an old trope that has been covered numerous times on the show and led to a very shaky understanding of just what this theme of identity was really supposed to mean on the season.

Barry simplified that for him, and for us. It’s not a struggle of losing humanity to this beast he’s created — “That guy’s a douche.” — though that’s clearly part of it. Rather, it really is about the balance of what one does outside of ourselves in life, be it through work or through our interactions with others, and what we are and need as an individual. This is frequently referred to in rudimentary terms in corporate culture as the “work/life balance.” It’s heightened given the unique nature of Oliver and his alter-ego, but it’s a far more relatable concept than originally perceived. Even Oliver seems to have a bit more understanding of his struggle."

see the full review here: http://www.greenarrowtv.com/arrow-3-8-the-brave-and-the-bold-recap-review/20656

[tv echo]

I think this is a great analysis of Oliver Queen, and I also agree with the writer's praise for SA's acting (I've quoted excerpts below but the entire article is worth reading)...

 

Who Is Arrow’s Oliver Queen?
By Chris King on Dec 12, 2014 - Written by Laura Schinner (@lschin12), guest contributor to TVOvermind
http://www.tvovermind.com/arrow/arrows-oliver-queen-246576

In the mid-season finale, Oliver realizes that maybe he doesn’t even know who he is. As he’s preparing to fight Ra’s Al Ghul, he tells Felicity he doesn’t know if he’s a killer but he does know two things: that he’ll do anything to protect his sister and that he loves Felicity. These are emotions that only Oliver Queen could feel, not the Arrow, showing that maybe he can be both.

 

The fact that as he is dying, he sees his father, mother, sister, and Felicity proves that Oliver still has a lot of humanity left in him, despite everything he’s been through. No matter how many people have tried to corrupt him and make him nothing more than a weapon to be controlled, a large part of who he was before the island has remained. The added layers of his identity have changed him and helped form his Arrow persona, but at the end of the day he still cares deeply for the people he loves and is willing to do anything for them, including die.

 

Also includes this brief analysis of Oliver & Felicity:

This season has seen Oliver struggle with the question of who he is and whether he can be both the Arrow and Oliver Queen. In the first episode, it seemed as though he was ready to to take another step towards becoming Oliver, finally ready to explore a relationship with Felicity. Their friendship has had a big impact on who he has become since returning from the island, as she is arguably the character who knows post-island Oliver the best. She doesn’t allow him to get away with anything and is constantly pushing him to be a better person. It’s Felicity who tells Oliver that he doesn’t need to kill to protect the city, tells him that he can find another way, and tells him that he is a hero. But Oliver hasn’t fully accepted that he deserves happiness and after a near death experience, he pushes Felicity away again, claiming that he can’t be Oliver Queen while also being the Arrow. In Oliver’s mind these two identities are so separate and he hasn’t yet been able to reconcile the idea that he could be both.

Edited December 13, 2014 by tv echo

[KittenPokerCheater]

Looking at the gif of Oliver's epic mid-season finale, I am hoping that someone can draw a key map of all of Oliver's scars.  Between his front and his back, he's got a lot of them (as well as tattoos).

 

Does anyone know where any/all of them come from (at least what we know so far)?  I know the one under his chest is from where Yau Fey first shot him (scar #1).

 

 

http://pmctvline2.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/arrow-season-3-photos-191.jpg?w=700

[Ariah]

I am waiting for the bite-mark-scar (left hip) to be revealed. I don't remember it being addressed on the show yet.

[NumberCruncher]

Looking at the gif of Oliver's epic mid-season finale, I am hoping that someone can draw a key map of all of Oliver's scars.  Between his front and his back, he's got a lot of them (as well as tattoos).

 

Does anyone know where any/all of them come from (at least what we know so far)?  I know the one under his chest is from where Yau Fey first shot him (scar #1).

 

 

http://pmctvline2.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/arrow-season-3-photos-191.jpg?w=700

I know that it was either TV Guide or EW that did a spread on all of Oliver's various scars and the stories behind them, but I cannot find a good link to the photo.

[bethy]

I wondered about the large scar - a burn? - at the small of his back. Ouch.

[apinknightmare]

I am waiting for the bite-mark-scar (left hip) to be revealed. I don't remember it being addressed on the show yet.

I thought that was like...a burn mark from chains. Is it a bite mark?

[foreverevolving]

I wondered about the large scar - a burn? - at the small of his back. Ouch.

he probably got that at the same time as the round one on the right side of his chest.

[Orion]

I think I found a link to what Numbercruncher was looking for a TV guide articles with pictures and explanation of the scars. According to this article it only takes about 90 minutes to put on all the scars and tattoos, which I found surprising.

 

 

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/132293307779953399/

[NumberCruncher]

That's the one! Thanks, @Orion.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I'm surprised that the tattoos and scars only take 90 minutes to put on.  I was expecting something much worse since apparently they have limited the shirtless SA scenes because of the time it takes to apply everything.  I'm hoping that we get plenty of shirtless scenes in the new year and that Felicity is present (and up close and personal) for many of them :) 

[Kordi]

I'm surprised that the tattoos and scars only take 90 minutes to put on.  I was expecting something much worse since apparently they have limited the shirtless SA scenes because of the time it takes to apply everything.  I'm hoping that we get plenty of shirtless scenes in the new year and that Felicity is present (and up close and personal) for many of them :)

I always thought they limited the shirtless scenes, because it was too hard for SA to keep this chiselled, ripped look constantly all year long: All the workouts + the whole low-carb-&-fat/no-sugar,-dairy-&-gluten-diet, that is quite a sacrifice!!! And wasn't he pretty ill at the end of S1?(I remember one answer during a Q&A on a CON where he announced that he was going to include gluten in his diet again, because "life is so short". And it seems that once in a while he really likes his beer! :-)

Edited December 16, 2014 by Kordi