S02.E09: gaMe changer

[paigow]

Tensions within the Inner Circle are at an all-time high, as Andy comes to Rebecca's defense against Reeva; Lauren tries to convince Reed and Caitlin that they must destroy Dr. Risman's research; a frustrated Jace strategizes with the Purifiers.

 Airdate: 12.04.2018

[HunterHunted]

I know that Andy's been a bullied loser for most of his life and a teenager whose brain has not fully matured, but there's no way that even with all of that and the possibility of getting some nani that he honestly thought Rebecca accidentally killed those people. Multiple people tried to tell her not to murder those people and her not to do it. Her response was an unequivocal "Screw that. Why do they deserve to get away with what they did?" Then...kablam, squish, splat.

This show seems to have decided that the X-gene is autosomal dominant, which makes not one bit of sense mostly because they always describe the X-gene in terms of presence or absence of the gene rather than how other autosomal dominant gene mutations are described, which is the presence or absence of the mutation. For example, the BRCA 1 and BRCA 2 mutations would be an analogue to what the doctor was explaining terribly about Lauren's 2 different X mutations. 

[blackwing]

Good riddance Rebecca!  Not going to miss her one bit.  Now if only they could find a way to get rid of Andy too, then I’d be even happier.  

Where was Clarice when the Purifiers showed up at the clinic?  Why couldn’t they call her to portal them out?  For that matter, why did John have to sacrifice himself?  Why could Marcos have lasered out their tires?  Then a blinding flash to disorient them while the he John and Invisible Guy got away?   

And why did Earthquake Guy have to sacrifice himself?  Why couldn’t Lauren have just force field destroyed all the samples with one flick of her hands?  Why couldn’t Reed have red hands the cases?   Seems way easier than rumbling everything off the shelf.  

The choices made by some of the people on this show just are not all that bright.

[Mysteris]

I think the funniest line of the night for me was when Blink teleported the researcher into the trunk and Marcos is just like "Hey don't ask me, I just work here."

I can't say as I blame Rebecca for wanting to ice the whole Inner Circle. They locked her in that rotating hell, I'd be pissed too. I did think her death was too abrupt though. And wow, Reeva is not good at motivating people if Andy's first reaction after that talk is to go jailbreak his girlfriend.

I felt bad for Noah at the end there, though the sections with Reed just didn't grab me that much.

Jace is there? Crap. Couldn't Rebecca have twisted him before she died?

So the whole mutant control system was locked in one place with no backups, and is now trashed beyond repair so every mutant who's ever had a gripe against the dystopic anti-mutant system is now free to vent that anger. Well, this is a design flaw that I feel could have been foreseen and planned for. The upside is that this season would be redeemed if the guy who set that prison guard on fire by snapping his fingers were turned loose on Purifier HQ, Jace, and the newscaster asshole.

[bow]

Rebecca is kind of awful. I don’t normally say this, but I don’t blame her parents. She’s crazy.

I love when parents teach their kids. Go Lauren!

I’m done with the baby drama. I get why it’s important to the storyline. 

Turner should feel bad. He’s a bad person.

The mutant restraint collar find is a BIG DEAL!

Go Lauren! Go Lauren! Go Lauren!

Yelling at someone will not help them work faster.

Andrew thinks killing lots of people is a mistake? WTF? Reeva has some good points (even if she is crazy).

Andy is an AWFUL person. He’s worse than Turner. Now he’s a killer.

All collars released is awesome.

Lansing, Michigan shoutout! (I don’t live there, but I do work there sometimes.)

[HunterHunted]

34 minutes ago, Mysteris said:

So the whole mutant control system was locked in one place with no backups, and is now trashed beyond repair so every mutant who's ever had a gripe against the dystopic anti-mutant system is now free to vent that anger. Well, this is a design flaw that I feel could have been foreseen and planned for.

I'd agree on the surface about how ridiculous that was if I hadn't witnessed the catastrophic events during the Amazon Web Services outages of 2015, 2016, and 2017. It was just like "Sorry. Ten percent of the internet is gone for 5 or 6 hours,"

Quote

The upside is that this season would be redeemed if the guy who set that prison guard on fire by snapping his fingers were turned loose on Purifier HQ, Jace, and the newscaster asshole.

There is straight up nothing ok about Jace or the Purifiers. The fact that they have seen fit to keep up their terrorist intimidation campaign is going to completely screw over the Purifiers. I'm not the least bit sad to see it happen. We now have a massive group of mutants who might have been decent mild mannered people before they entered the mutant detention system, but are now a completely radicalized group of people. Couple that with what the Purifiers have been doing to peaceful mutants who don't want any problems, we have a civil war just about to pop off. Congrats Jace! You just helped to start a civil war. I'm sure your daughter would be proud.

Edited December 5, 2018 by HunterHunted

[Lady Calypso]

Oh man....even after seeing Rebecca twist everyone in that room inside out, splattering their insides all over the glass window, he ACTUALLY believes that she's innocent and didn't mean to do it? She murdered a dozen people in cold blood! Well, now it doesn't matter since she's dead and Andy accidentally killed her. And even after she's dead, he STILL thinks she was a total victim. I mean, yeah, being trapped in that institution did make things worse, but she was always a psychopath. Unfortunately, Andy didn't seem to learn in any way.

He did accidentally kill Rebecca and showed remorse, but then let loose all mutants because of his manpain. Whatever happens next is on the Inner Circle, including him and Lorna. Although the releasing of the mutants through their collars was cool. 

I didn't actually hate the Reed/Lauren/Caitlin stuff. Although....doctor flirting with Lauren? The girl is seventeen, I'm pretty sure. Why is that guy flirting hardcore with Lauren when he's at least in his mid twenties? Or is Lauren eighteen? Either way, still creepy, even if I do like the character in general (yet cannot remember his name).

Caitlin is still a bit whiny but at least she didn't mention Andy much in this episode. I did like Reed's realization about what Lauren discovered and how willing he is to let himself die to protect all mutants. Although Doctor M's description of his powers and how he'll explode was creepy. He might survive his own nuclear blast, but it sounds like anyone in the vacinity wouldn't. At least, that's as much as I understood it. 

10 hours ago, blackwing said:

Where was Clarice when the Purifiers showed up at the clinic?  Why couldn’t they call her to portal them out?  For that matter, why did John have to sacrifice himself?  Why could Marcos have lasered out their tires?  Then a blinding flash to disorient them while the he John and Invisible Guy got away?   

Clarice peaced out after her fight with John. She made it clear that she wanted no part in his suicide mission. Which...she has a fair point. 

I will say, I laughed really hard when Clarice portaled Familiar Looking Actor into the trunk and Marcos quipped "Don't look at me. I know as much as you do." or something along those lines. 

Lorna, girl, you aren't very smart if you think Reeva's plan is a good one.

I will cheer at the character who kills Jace. Seriously, I fast forward through all of his scenes because....why do we need him?  

[UNOSEZ]

Well Rebecca is dead so glad that didn't stretch out... Having a hard time not rooting for her these years inner circle folks... Tho the chaos of unleashing some probably very pissed off Mutants into an increasingly hostile and scared human populace will no doubt result in much more conflict... But its still better than whatever it is John has been doing

[HunterHunted]

14 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

This show seems to have decided that the X-gene is autosomal dominant, which makes not one bit of sense mostly because they always describe the X-gene in terms of presence or absence of the gene rather than how other autosomal dominant gene mutations are described, which is the presence or absence of the mutation. For example, the BRCA 1 and BRCA 2 mutations would be an analogue to what the doctor was explaining terribly about Lauren's 2 different X mutations. 

I know no one, but me cares about this, but the science on the show is just so terrible. If the X-gene is autosomal dominant as the doctor said, the only way for Andy and Lauren to have 2 separate x-gene mutations is if it had been acquired through spontaneous mutation and possibly something environmental. We know Reed has only one. Caitlin can't have passed it on because she'd be a mutant if she had it. An autosomal dominant gene means that a person with a single copy of that gene always manifests that trait.* Given that, it's grossly negligent to not test Caitlin or do rigorous interviews with Caitlin about environmental factors that might have caused the spontaneous mutation. If environmental factors can cause spontaneous mutation of the x-gene, then it's just bad science to ignore that. We don't even know the prevalence of mutations acquired that way or if slightly different environments cause different x-gene mutations. So the doctor's so called cure might not even work on those types of mutations. None of this conjecture would be remotely necessary if the writers had simply remembered that the past 20 years of X-films has described the x-gene as a recessive gene.

Are we going to ignore that the scientist explicitly called the Fenris siblings, Reed's grandparents? 

*That's not always true and there can be many reasons why traits don't express or express to a limited degree.

[Chris24601]

23 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

Are we going to ignore that the scientist explicitly called the Fenris siblings, Reed's grandparents?

It's squicky to think about, but one generation of incest that is a generation removed from Reed and two from Lauren/Andy isn't harmful to them; it actually takes a couple of generations in sequence for inbreeding depression to result (Dany on GoT for example should be an inbreeding nightmare, but just one generation of outbreeding for Jon pretty much resets the clock).

My hunch is that what the writers were trying to have the doctor explain to the Struckers is that the Fenris Effect is a completely separate mutation from their normal mutant powers and that, even if one set were to be turned off, the other one would still function (i.e. blocking/removing the Fenris mutation wouldn't take away Lauren's shields or Andy's destructive telekinetics).

My hunch is that, at some point, the drugs Reed is using to block his powers will end up being used to block the Fenris link (possibly because the link between Lauren/Andy intensifies) while still allowing Lauren and/or Andy to use their regular mutant powers. Alternately someone like Jace will use it to block Lauren/Andy's normal powers and end up with a faceful of Fenris for his trouble because it wasn't blocked by the drug. Which route they take would depend on which set of mutations the writers decide are linked to Reed's powers and which are their own abilities.

* * * *

One prospect regarding the possible environmental triggers for a second set of mutations (i.e. what the second set would have to be if mutations are autosomal dominant)... what about being in proximity to a sibling with the same X-Gene?

Andreas, Otto, Reed and Andy all have destructive powers (Andy's is explicitly stated to be identical to Andreas'). Andrea and Lauren both had identical shield powers. Andreas/Andrea and Andy/Lauren have the Fenris Effect. Otto and Reed were only children and do not.

What this suggests to me is that the primary mutation is the destructive/shield mutation that expresses differently depending on whether its on an XY or XX chromosome (i.e. it expresses in all males as destructive force and in all females as defensive shields). On top of that, during their formative years the primary mutation reacts to the environmental presence of the opposite expression in close proximity (i.e. having an opposite sex sibling) to produce a secondary mutation (i.e. the Fenris Effect).

That would allow both the doctor's statement of the mutations being autosomal dominant and having two sets in Lauren/Andy to be true.

[rtms77]

If every mutant is only genetically formed, how does one explain Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, Hulk etc becoming mutants? Would Peter Parker still be a mutant with spider powers if he wasn’t bitten by a spider? I really think they need to look at Caitlin and see if her mutant gene is being naturally surpressed. Three of the Strucker family had their mutant gene click on thanks to intense stress situations and Caitlin has been going bonkers ever since it happened so she is majorly stressed.

Edited December 5, 2018 by rtms77

[Quark]

She is a good actress, but does Kate Burton ever play pleasant characters?

Decent episode.

[Raja]

42 minutes ago, rtms77 said:

If every mutant is only genetically formed, how does one explain Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, Hulk etc becoming mutants? Would Peter Parker still be a mutant with spider powers if he wasn’t bitten by a spider? I really think they need to look at Caitlin and see if her mutant gene is being naturally surpressed. Three of the Strucker family had their mutant gene click on thanks to intense stress situations and. Airline has been going bonkers ever since it happened. 

In Marvel terms they are not mutants. As mutants are born with  a gene. Now they can reboot the entire comic franchise and say all of the "enhanced" to use the MCU terms, did start with a genetic mutation carried since birth.

[Chris24601]

The actual Marvel comics terms for Spider-Man, the Hulk, etc. is “Mutate.” Their genetic code was altered (so they can pass the traits on to their kids) by exposure to something external (whereas mutants might have an emotional stressor kickstart their powers, but the alterations to their code were already built in... no radioactive spiders or gamma rays needed).

If you deep dive into the Marvel lore, the reason some humans end up with superpowers when hit by stuff like toxic waste that should by rights kill them is because hundreds of thousands of years ago a race of beings called Celestials played around with the human genome and some percentage of humans picked up what amounts to a “super adaption” gene that causes them to develop powers in line with whatever lethal thing they’re exposed to.

Mutants essentially have this “super adaption” gene pre-triggered and just need something stressful to turn it on; which is why their powers seem random whereas the mutates powers are always related to whatever triggered their adaption gene.

The Inhumans incidentally, since Marvel Studios was bound and determined to try and make them a thing because they didn’t have the rights to mutants, were a case of the Kree experiments triggering that same adaptation gene.

This is also why “power dampeners” work on just about any powered person in the Marvel Universe; because they’re all suppressing the same set of genes.

[Gwen-Stacys]

"Why could Marcos have lasered out their tires? Then a blinding flash to disorient them while the he John and Invisible Guy got away?" Because Marcos has been useless this entire season, that's why.

And why did Earthquake Guy have to sacrifice himself? Why couldn’t Lauren have just force field destroyed all the samples with one flick of her hands? Why couldn’t Reed have red hands the cases? Seems way easier than rumbling everything off the shelf."

In this instance, Reed had just taken the dampner thing that suppresses his abilities. He couldn't have red-handed anything.

I think Reeva's plans are to create chaos as a means of starting a civil war that the humans have no chance of winning (unless they nuke themselves and mutants alike). That's what I've been gathering.

And as for Andy...I think he lowkey is blaming himself for what she did at the bank because he was the one that stoked her anger in the first place. So "It's not her fault because it's mine."

Bring on Darth!Lauren!!!! *insert Elmo Fire gif*

[AngelKitty]

17 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

An autosomal dominant gene means that a person with a single copy of that gene always manifests that trait.

If this were true, wouldn't that mean that mutants would eventually be the majority?

16 hours ago, rtms77 said:

If every mutant is only genetically formed, how does one explain Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, Hulk etc becoming mutants?

 

14 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

The actual Marvel comics terms for Spider-Man, the Hulk, etc. is “Mutate.” Their genetic code was altered (so they can pass the traits on to their kids) by exposure to something external

 

15 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

hundreds of thousands of years ago a race of beings called Celestials played around with the human genome

 

15 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

Kree experiments triggering that same adaptation gene.

Oh boy, this is all too confusing to me so, to make my brain not explode, in my mind, there is no Spiderman, Hulk, etc. in this world. Only X-Men, who are all gone for some reason that I can't remember.

As for this particular episode, I'm glad Rebecca is dead. She was never not going to be a danger to everyone.

The biggest problem with this show is that all sides have a point and they all have done horrible things to the others. There's just nobody for me to root for.

[Raja]

3 hours ago, AngelKitty said:

If this were true, wouldn't that mean that mutants would eventually be the majority?

 

 

 

Oh boy, this is all too confusing to me so, to make my brain not explode, in my mind, there is no Spiderman, Hulk, etc. in this world. Only X-Men, who are all gone for some reason that I can't remember.

As for this particular episode, I'm glad Rebecca is dead. She was never not going to be a danger to everyone.

The biggest problem with this show is that all sides have a point and they all have done horrible things to the others. There's just nobody for me to root for.

I don't think they gave a reason, just the X-Men are gone. In effect don't watch waiting on a movie character to show up. Do not hold the almost false hope that the MCU had with the Agents shows which only had a few SHIELD agents and one of Thor's sidekicks show up on TV.

[HunterHunted]

4 hours ago, AngelKitty said:

If this were true, wouldn't that mean that mutants would eventually be the majority?

Yes or at least half of the population. The limiting factor would be if the prevalence of the disorder is so low that it might take 10,000 years or maybe 100,000 to do so. One of the issues could be that the theoretical autosomal dominant disorder is so aggressive that it kills pretty rapidly or manifests before the person with the disorder has reached reproductive age and has passed it along. Luckily, this show has shown because of persecution, that mutants have been self-segregating for protection for quite some time. Except for Reed's dad and Lauren, we haven't really seen any characters who are trying pass. And Erg of the sewer dwelling Morlocks is intent on shaming any mutant who can pass even if the person is doing it strategically to help more mutants.

Quote

Oh boy, this is all too confusing to me so, to make my brain not explode, in my mind, there is no Spiderman, Hulk, etc. in this world. Only X-Men, who are all gone for some reason that I can't remember.

1 hour ago, Raja said:

I don't think they gave a reason, just the X-Men are gone. In effect don't watch waiting on a movie character to show up. Do not hold the almost false hope that the MCU had with the Agents shows which only had a few SHIELD agents and one of Thor's sidekicks show up on TV.

 

You will probably never have to worry about the genetics of the Hulk or Spider-Man either in the Marvel TV shows or movies. The rights to those characters are super complicated and strangely parceled out. And even in the acquisition of Fox by Disney, Disney won't be gaining anything as it relates to Hulk and Spider-Man whose rights are actually still held by Universal and Sony.

Quote

As for this particular episode, I'm glad Rebecca is dead. She was never not going to be a danger to everyone.

The biggest problem with this show is that all sides have a point and they all have done horrible things to the others. There's just nobody for me to root for.

Mutant powers are supposed to manifest during puberty. Girls go through puberty earlier than boys. But even still, it happens for most American girls around 12 or 13. Rebecca had been in the institution for at least a year; she's roughly Andy's age--15 or 16. Meaning that when we see her flashback with her parents, Rebecca has had her powers for a year or two. She's tried to kill her teachers and succeeds in murdering her parents when Sentinel Services tries to take her away.

My point being that if your 14 year old kid is casually trying to murder his or her teachers (powers or not), the battle is lost. You raised a highly antisocial psychopath. We've seen a ton of other mutant characters on this show who presumably didn't try to murder the people around them in a fit of pique during their teen years. Heck, Lorna and Andy being the two most emotionally volatile characters and even they have been seen having moments of self-reflection and regret when they've done awful things. But not Rebecca. She's always kind of giddy when she hurts or kills people. This girl was on track to be a serial killer long before she ever got powers.

For me, the biggest issue is that the story has so little nuance. The two most ideologically similar groups are the Inner Circle and the Morlocks. They both want to be left alone and want a mutant homeland. The issues that they disagree on is the Inner Circle's use of violence and the Morlocks' insistence brand themselves to show their group affiliation. These issues aren't small either. Every act of violence or major move by the Inner Circle is much more likely to impact the Morlocks because they live on the margins and don't have accessible resources to protect themselves. The Morlocks branding policy is short-sighted and petty. There is actually a much stronger show if the Morlocks were actually interacting with Reeva's people.

Jace is a dumb dummy, who is too much of a dumb asshole to realize that he's happily aligned himself with a group who happily burns down churches and foster homes, would build concentration camps, and have genocide as a national policy. I feel like there's got to be a surprise coming down the line for him to find out that he has a mutant family member. He's not that smart. He's not particularly sympathetic. There's really not a reason to keep his profoundly uninteresting character in the story.

[Lantern7]

Just watched the episode.

Jace: (grabbing John by the scalp, which I bet he just loves) Gotcha.

John: (grunting) Wow. The Purifiers. I bet your daughter would have been so proud.

Jace: (raising fist) You son of a-!!!

Radio Anchorman: Breaking news! Every restraint device used on mutants has failed, and they are rioting in their detention areas before running amok throughout the nation! Apparently, all of them were connected to one place, and one or two mutants basically blew it to hell. This raises two questions: how much fighting will there be in the streets, and who was the asshole that thought a central power place was a great idea?!? [off-screen voices yelling] Fuck the FCC, Bob! I'm taking my wife and mistress into the bomb shelter! Bet you wish you were safe from those muties now, huh?!?

John: (shrugging his shoulders) Congratulations on your win. Seriously.

Jace: I'm really not the dumbest character on this show. I should be happy, but now I'm just depressed.

I don't know. I'm documented on liking bugfuckery in Gotham, Legends of Tomorrow and Preacher. So why am I not having so much fun here? Seriously, Andy let Rebecca out, discovered that was a really bad idea, used his power on her . . . and she winds up getting killed, thus negating the threat she posed in future episodes. I should be laughing my ass off. Instead, I'm wondering if the Cuckoos put the whammy on Rebecca and Andrew, made Andrew think Rebecca was killed, and found a new way to detain her. Also, I kinda want to have inside-out pancakes. I shouldn't have to have a deadly mutant power to eat that, right?

I think another reason the series drags in that the Underground is so pitiful. I mean, they try their best, and I like improvisation (Clarice blinking a schmuck into the trunk, for instance), but they keep racking up loses, and the three main mutants there (particularly John) are slowly going insane. Not the fun insane . . . the insane where you just want to hug them from several minutes and let them softly cry into your shoulder.

[AngelKitty]

10 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

I'm documented on liking bugfuckery in Gotham, Legends of Tomorrow and Preacher. So why am I not having so much fun here?

Because those shows do a much better job making impossible things seem possible and let us have fun while doing it? Plus the characters are better drawn and we actually care about them.

[Arbor Tristis]

18 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

...wondering if the Cuckoos put the whammy on Rebecca and Andrew, made Andrew think Rebecca was killed, and found a new way to detain her.

That's giving this show way too much credit. 

In my teenage years I too, have been guilty of following around a girl like a lovesick puppy, simply because she showed me the slightest bit of affection. But once my crush hauls off and eviscerates a room full of people, I'm out. I'd recall fondly the 3 or 4 days of bliss we had, and wish her all the best. 

[tennisgurl]

Yeah Andy, Rebecca murdered a bunch of people in cold blood by accident. Young love really is blind. I feel for Rebecca a bit, as she was clearly mentally unstable and badly treated, but she was clearly a danger to society, and needed to be dealt with. I did kind of crack up at the zero fucks that Reeva gave about looking Rebecca up, and her dying. I mean, she did murder Reevas mark who she had a thing for, so no surprise there. 

Jace is the worst, and I hope that someone starts calling him on his bullshit real soon. Yeah, I am totally sure his daughter would be super proud that her daddy joined a terrorist hate group and started a civil war, tearing their country apart, in her name. Why couldn't Rebecca had torn him up? 

You know, I thought that the earthquake guy made some decent points about why some mutants would want a cure, like people who have powers that are impossible to control and dangerous to themselves and others (the comics had people like that, such as a kid who evaporated anyone within a certain radius of him and had to be put out of his misery, or a woman who set herself on fire by accident and burned to death), but then the doctor got all evil and was talking about how mutants are a curse, and yeah this lady is an asshole. I did actually like their scenes pretty well, and Caitlin actually focuses on Lauren, and didnt just go on about Andy over and over.

"Dont ask me, I just work here" Marcos bringing the snark tonight! 

I like this show, but I just feel like its stopping short of being a really good show. It just seems rather paint by the numbers X-Men, without any of the major characters of stories that made them so memorable. Really, thats probably the shows biggest issue. It isnt as memorable as it should be, especially in a TV landscape filled with superhero shows and other shows of that kind. 

[Beatriceblake]

This show frustrates me because it isn't great and it isn't bad enough to be entertaining but there's also still something there.

That said this season could have used more moral complexity.

There wasn't much conflict in Rebecca's arc at all, she was an overly powerful psychotic person who was clearly going to have to die. I think she would have been a more interesting character if she had had some good to her or if they had committed to her being warped by her time in the mental hospital. Whereas the flashback with her parents seemed to indicate she was always dangerous.

Similar thing with the Hellfire Club. It's been hard to buy them as the antagonists for the last few episodes when they at least seem to be achieving more than what remains of the Mutant Underground. Also John has no alternative sustainable plan for improving things for mutants. Helping a few people until eventually you get stopped doesn't seem to be much of a plan. I like him so I was irritated to see his completely needless seeming capture this episode.

I agree with everyone who wants Jesse from Burn Notice off the show yesterday. He's not sympathetic or interesting and you would think someone whose life had been wrecked by losing a child would be a bit more squeamish about tearing families apart.

[slf]

I really like it when Marcos and Clarice interact, even if it's just on the phone (her yelling at him on he phone to OPEN THE TRUNK, him scrambling out to do so, and the shocked look on his face when she portals that guy into the trunk was pretty much the highlight of the episode for me). They're funny.

John is getting tiresome.