My Brilliant Friend - General Discussion

[ProudMary]

Content warning for S3  Ep. 7:  The scene immediately following the opening credits contains

Spoiler

a very graphic beating of a male character and graphic rape of a female character. 

 

[aghst]

Episode 03.07 Try Again

Quote

With her marriage on the edge, Elena is further destabilized when Pietro brings Nino home for an unexpected visit.

Opening scene was tough to watch.

Then Pietro having a gun pointed at him.

I wasn't familiar with the turmoil in Italy in these times.  You heard a lot about unstable governments and people being abducted, like Aldo Moro, a former prime minister who was tried and killed.

But this show has depicted political crimes at a lower level like that pharmacist being killed or Bruno, the salami factory owner who spent that summer with Elena and Lila.

Maybe attribute it to the new show runner but presumably these scenes are in the book.

The main thing is that Lenu goes to Milan because Franco is her ex boyfriend from University and Mariarosa is her sister in law.

She remembers how Franco tried to mold her and she talks about how these educated men are still sexist in the way they treat their educated wives and girlfriends.

Mariarosa tells her that is what her next book should be and Elena starts researching.  She also tells her she's surprised she married her brother, thought it was a bad marriage, which of course Elena is living through, bickering more with her husband, who shows little interest in her aspirations.

So Lenu is all down with women's liberation and she's going to write a book about how men have manipulated women.

Then Nino enters the picture again and she's instantly thirsty.

She dislikes the male gaze but it's Nino!  

She gets all dolled up before meeting him, asking her daughter -- Dede is becoming a firecracker -- and her husband how she looks.  She's also trying to measure up to Nino's wife as well.

She's doing all this research about how poorly men have treated women but she doesn't remember how he treated Lila or other women whom he impregnated.

Nino comes with the sweet words, how he was looking for things in Lila that he had really seen only in her, how brilliant her book is.  She asks him if he wants to read her first draft and when he says yes, she pulls it out of her bag!

Ah, Lenu, Lenu, Lenu.  Still that little girl who wants his attention more than anything else.

I don't know what year it is but it's been 8 years since University!  So she's bearing down on 30 or maybe even past it.  She's a mother and a still respected writer but her knees buckle whenever he's around.

How about the clothing store scene.  Nino's wife goes into the dressing room to try a dress and out pops Lila!  Elena is hallucinating but that is how she sees any rival for Nino?

He treated her like shit too, that summer where she covered for them so they could fuck all night, as she put it.  It wasn't what they did which offended her, it was the fact that she wasn't the one sleeping with Nino.

If he comes on to her, she'll leave Pietro instantly, maybe not even care about custody of the daughters.  It may be coming to that.

[izabella]

Wow, Lenu really has a real blind spot when it comes to Nino.  She even invited him to stay at there place when he comes back.  What could possibly go wrong?

[marybennet]

From her perspective, of course, what could possibly go right?!? I think she's walking straight into an affair and facilitating it.

I confess I found myself (even knowing all that I know about him) charmed by Nino in this episode.  I think the show wanted us to feel the power of his appeal, his interest in Lenu's work, for example, which Pietro continually ignores, can't help but be compelling for her.  The part that shocks me a little is her willingness to not care about his wife, though I suppose the transposition of his wife and Lila in Elena's mind suggests that she does feel some guilt and maybe also some triumph.

Edited April 13, 2022 by marybennet

[tennisgurl]

Pietro might be a jerk, but he wasn't wrong about Lila having a scary intense energy. I think that saying that Lila hates Lenu is simplifying things, their love/hate super intense relationship that spans their entire lives is a lot more complicated than that, but she really does tend to stare at Lenu like she plans on scratching her eyes out. Or angrily eating her books. 

That dinner was certainly awkward on every possible level. I did end up feeling a bit badly for Pietro, he's just having dinner with all of these complicated dynamics born from their poverty stricken crime addled neighborhood that he cant understand all happening around him, no wonder he seemed baffled by the end of the day. I hope that they go ahead and pull the plug on that relationship soon, its clearly over, Lenu looks even more miserable than usual. Of course, now Nino is back in the picture, and while Pietro isn't a good husband, Nino is hardly a trade up.

Edited April 15, 2022 by tennisgurl

[Bellatrix]

On 4/12/2022 at 8:46 AM, aghst said:

Mariarosa tells her that is what her next book should be and Elena starts researching.  She also tells her she's surprised she married her brother, thought it was a bad marriage, which of course Elena is living through, bickering more with her husband, who shows little interest in her aspirations.

Here my immediate thought was that people have a lot of reasons to try to make other people dissatisfied with their life, and that reason is rarely having their best interests at heart.

(Unless they're married to/about to marry a psychopath, which Pietro, whatever his faults, is clearly not, or something.)

If you were previously satisfied, and somebody comes along and points out all the reasons you have to be dissatisfied, that is actually a major red flag.

This of course goes doubly for Nino in episode 8. I could not believe the way he acted towards Pietro. And in his own house! And Pietro then apologises! He should have punched him and thrown him out. 

I also could not believe Elena’s reaction to her husband being threatened at gunpoint. Alright, let’s say the youth never intended to fire (which was not at all clear to me), but has she never heard of guns going off accidentally? I have no idea about statistics, but I should think a great deal of gun related violence and accidents do in fact happen accidentally.

Also, if Elena is so dissatisfied with her life, she has options. How about crying/nagging her way to a nanny? She already has a full-time housekeeper. Would it really have taken more than a few teary phone calls to her mother-in-law to make a nanny also happen? Also, in a few short years, both her children will be in school, and after that teenagers and more independent, leaving her plenty of free time. 

Elena is annoyingly passive about the whole thing, she could have attended lectures, written, etc., with a little maneuvering or just a little waiting.

As for Nino, blergh. I hated him in the books. He was like a black hole that showed up and always ruined everything. I cheered every time I thought we had seen the back of him, but he always reappeared like a bad penny.

I am not saying Pietro was any great prize, either, (I would not have married him myself), but she chose him, they were a little family, and he was a good provider.

I do not think it was up to anybody else to rag on him or ruin that.

As to Mariarosa, her boyfriend had just got his eye gouged out. It's entirely possible she wanted Elena to feel miserable about her life, too. People also enjoy doing that to others without anyone's eye being gouged out, so Mariarosa may have been feeling extra that way.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Bellatrix

[cardigirl]

Well, that finale was something!  I detest Nino and cannot believe that Elena thinks he's all that. She's seen how he treats women in his life, time and time again, yet she thinks it will be different for her? I mean, I guess that happens often, that people fool themselves into thinking "this time it will be okay," but I was very disappointed she chose this. 

I'm also sad we will be losing the two leads for the final series. I've enjoyed their portrayals very much. Gaia Girace and Margherita Mazzucco have done fine work in this series. 

Now we have to wait a year (hopefully only a year) for the next series.  Can't wait!

 

[Mindthinkr]

   I’m still absorbing what I just watched. I’m just surprised that she would leave her children to be with her lover (Nino). She told them 5 days, but we won’t know if it was just 5 days until next season. I fully expected Pietro to hit her or some other form of DV when she fessed up about her true feelings. How old was Dede to understand what was going on? 6 or 7? She was such awareness for such young girl. 
   Lila called Elena an idiot for leaving her husband. How she thought he was great. I guess he was according to the culture they were brought up in, or another factor could have been that Lila was jealous. She was still stuck in a city of chaos. She did bring up a good point about the education. 
   I guess I need to sit with my thoughts instead of posting as I’m still a bit jumbled. I did like the ending and seeing Elena’s character grown up in the mirror, but I will miss these two actresses as well. 

[ProudMary]

I realize that this entire story is being told through the eyes of an older Elena, but from a cinematic perspective, I would have thought that the Season Finale would have had more balance between what was happening in Florence and what was happening in Naples, instead of being almost completely centered on Elena. If there was an Episode 9, I'm sure it would have focused on the murder of Signora Solara and its effects on the denizens of the neighborhood. What led up to this murder? What is Lila experiencing during this turbulent time? Why does she feel that she needs to send Gennaro north? Now, I fear we won't see that story, as we know that the upcoming S4 will have older actresses portraying Elena and Lila, so a time jump is expected. Perhaps there will be flashbacks early in S4 that still include Gaia Girace and the Naples cast we're familiar with. I did like the (re)-introduction of the actress playing the older Elena with the mirror scene in the airplane's restroom. Well done.

Truthfully, the Elena/Nino plot line went on for too long. We knew where this was going. The heart wants what it wants, but I had hoped Elena's brain would prevail. Boy, she was brazen about it too; in her own apartment, right down the hall from where Pietro slept and then in their bathroom while he was making coffee! She didn't seem to care if she got caught. Also, never sleep on what your children are observing. They understand a lot more than most parents give them credit for, especially one as whip-smart as Dede. Pietro's been no prize and it made me angry that he was the wronged party here, but you shouldn't cheat on your partner. You have to end it first. (Nino's just as guilty of this.) And I don't have much sympathy for a parent who walks out on their kids. I haven't read the books so I don't know how the Elena/Nino "love" story ends, but we (and Elena!) know what his track record is. I don't think there will be a surprise here.

Still, this is peak TV. I'm looking forward to the fourth and final season.

 

[aghst]

Elena knew Nino's history.  She knew it was ironic, maybe hypocritical of her to be craving for Nino's attention and approval, considering that her new book was about men manipulating women and women to a certain extent giving into men's wishes.

Did she just crave love or was the imprinting from her childhood that strong?

Probably didn't help that she really was never in love with Pietro, who came along out of nowhere when she was feeling very low, after Franco left her in Pisa and all their friends abandoned her, mocked her humble origins and family.

Not that Pietro didn't deserve some of the blame.  He was kind of an absent husband, didn't show interest in her work.  Her dissatisfaction with the marriage drove her to write her new book and probably into the arms of Nino with his effusive praise.

She thought she was part of a trend, these broken up marriages, people cohabitating rather than marrying, remarrying or staying married.  That is probably true, the '70s were when cohabitation became more common.

Lila didn't mince words.  Was it purely advice or was some of it from feeling burned by Nino herself?  But her trying to say Pietro was a good man and she shouldn't ruin her marriage probably is an indication that Lila and Lenu had grown apart, that Lila didn't know how dissatisfied Elena was in her marriage.

She herself had gotten involved with Enzo, maybe out of gratitude for looking after her all those years?  So maybe Lila's due for awakening as well.

Yeah it would have been interesting to see more about the violence back in Naples but it may be a contrast, Elena is on a plane, leaving the country, while Naples burns, fading greater into her distant past.

The subtitle of the season is Those Who Leave, Those Who Stay.  But it's not just about Naples, it may be about marriage and traditional lives.

Nino may ultimately let Elena down but for the times, probably crazy for them to abruptly leave their marriages like that, both leaving spouses from well-to-do families who probably have a lot of influence over their academic and literary careers.

 

 

[tennisgurl]

I cant stand Nino, but I admit I chuckled when he told Pietro that Lenu's book wasn't for someone like him. Of course, that probably led Lenu to his room even quicker, even though the affair was probably inevitable. Its so frustrating, Lenu is so smart but is such an utter idiot when it comes to Nino. The heart wants what the heart wants and all, but she knows how he is, she knows how he treats women, including her best friend, and she is still ready to end her marriage for him. Granted, their marriage would probably have ended even without Nino, Pietro and Lenu were clearly miserable and Pietro is hardly blameless in all of this, but Nino being a factor just makes everything more messy. Even though Pietro was a rather uncaring unsupportive husband, cheating is never alright. I half expected Lenu to find Nino already banging some woman in the plane's bathroom, she is fooling herself if she thinks he's going to change his ways for her. I bet all of the gelato in Italy that we find out next season that he has not only been with every woman in Rome, all the while being with Lenu, but that he never even officially left his wife, even if he told her about the affair. Nino might be charming, but he's a scumbag, and its so frustrating to watch Lenu learn this over and over again, but then deciding to go back to him anyway.

She certainly wasn't doing a great job at hiding her affair, hooking up with him while Pietro was making coffee in the next room, leaving their family vacation for a romantic rendezvous, even her daughter caught on. She should really remember from her own childhood how much kids pick up on things.

I wish that we had gotten to see more of Lila and the recent turmoil in the neighborhood, but I guess it served to bookend the season. It started with a Lenu focused episode about the start of her marriage, and ended with a Lenu focused episode about the end of it. That shot of young Lenu looking into the mirror and seeing older Lenu was really well done, a nice way to smoothly transition to the new cast. I will miss these versions of Lila and Lenu though, I hope we get to see them one more time before we end the show, along with little kids Lenu and Lila. 

I hope it wont be too long until we get our last season!

[izabella]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

She certainly wasn't doing a great job at hiding her affair, hooking up with him while Pietro was making coffee in the next room, leaving their family vacation for a romantic rendezvous, even her daughter caught on. She should really remember from her own childhood how much kids pick up on things.

My jaw was on the floor during that entire scene with the four of them in the girls' bedroom.  I was stunned that Pietro would put the girls through that, though I get that he was angry and he had a right to be.   I guess it's better they know the facts, but yikes, those girls will need therapy.  The way Elena just walked out and left them all behind was brutal.

When Dede said Nino's name, it struck me how much she has her mother's temperament and affect, except for occasional bursts of anger.  The young actress did well at showing the serious, surface calm her mother usually wears, with a very active mind underneath.

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Nino might be charming, but he's a scumbag, and its so frustrating to watch Lenu learn this over and over again, but then deciding to go back to him anyway.

It's interesting that Lenu, who is typically very self-controlled and spare with emotions, lets it all go with Nino, including common sense.  What would she have done if Pietro had walked in on her and Nino?  Or Dede? 

That phone call between Lila and Lenu was also really something.  I got the sense Lenu felt more than a little satisfaction at telling Lila she was running away with Nino.  And she wasn't pleased when Lila warned her he was the kind of guy who will suck you dry and dump you. 

No, Lenu is in love and is finally getting the guy she's always wanted, and, dammit, she wants to be the one to walk in the sun and no one could stop her.  Except Nino.  I noticed she was very, very fearful of answering the phone when she was about to walk out the door with her suitcase.  I think she was afraid it was Nino calling to make an excuse why they couldn't fly away together.   She was relieved it was Lila instead.

I'm still digesting this episode. 

[meep.meep]

I found it strange that a woman could write a book about how men manipulate women into being what they want them to be, and then go completely gaga for someone who is a total manipulator.

And kudos to Lila who gets Pietro.  He might not be a barrel of fun but he is very intelligent and would never hurt Lenu unless betrayed.

[marybennet]

On 4/21/2022 at 10:39 AM, meep.meep said:

And kudos to Lila who gets Pietro.  He might not be a barrel of fun but he is very intelligent and would never hurt Lenu unless betrayed.

Pietro hit Elena. I don’t think we can forget that. Nobody is a prize here. I also think Lila is enjoying overstating the virtues of Pietro because it enhances her pleasure in discovering that Lenu can be stupid.

[CarolMK]

I haven’t read the third book yet so I really didn’t expect that Lena would leave her family for Nino, and I do wonder if it was for longer than 5 days. I saw how unhappy she was in the role of just being a wife and mother, it wasn’t enough for her . I do think Nino is manipulative but he understands Lena in a way Pietro does not . It wasn’t surprising that Lila told her not to leave her husband for Nino, but we see in the beginning of the series that Lila disappeared and didn’t leave a trace as to where she went .

[aghst]

Ultimately Elena may regret leaving her family for Nino.

But one thing was clear, with Pietro, she would not have been encouraged to write.

She probably would have written more books even if she stayed with Pietro but her second book didn't turn out well whereas for this new book, she got a lot of encouragement from Pietro's sister and mother and of course Nino.

You would think Lenu wouldn't want to end up a wife and mother, with no career of her own, given what she observed about life of older generations of women back in Napoli.

She did most of the research on her own and had pretty much finished the book, after her sister in law's encouragement, and Nino just showered her with a lot of praise, which she craved because she wanted to see him.

Nino is certainly not her muse but his presence and the affair basically brought out her animal spirits.  However her decision turns out, will we see the effects on her as a writer?

Well next season, an older actress will take over as Elena -- and presumably the same with Lila's character.  So will it be some years after these events depicted in the finale for Season 3?  She's actually suppose to be around 30 because at least 8 years have passed since she graduated from university.  So the older actress will be playing Elena who's around 40?  Or will it pick up almost right after these events but the older actress will start as Elena in her early 30s?

 

[Bluesky]

I hate Nino, what an ass.   Way too much Elena and she has become pretty unlikeable.  Did she tell her children that she would be back in 5 days but doesn’t actually plan on it?  

[pasdetrois]

I am very late to this party. I confused this series with something else and didn't watch, then realized my mistake last week. I've binged through the end of Season 2.

What a gift! Especially since we've had to settle for so much dreck during COVID. I've never been to Italy and feel like I've been immersed virtually. Usually so many characters run together in my mind, but I have vivid images and memories of each one. Some of the faces are remarkable - for example, Alessio Gallo is a combination of menace and odd beauty.

What a stand-out achievement for the director(s).

I can't wait to dig in to Season 3.

[aghst]

Netflix has released a mini series based on Elena Ferrante's Lying Life of Adults.

It's set in Naples in the 1990s, about a young woman growing into adulthood.

Sounds familiar?  Well she had a relationship with an aunt played by Valleria Gollina.  So it doesn't have the long sweep of time like MBF but covers a different period in Naples.

It's getting good reviews.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/the_lying_life_of_adults/s01/reviews?type=top_critics

 

 

[aghst]

Season 4 is now filming and as expected, all major cast members are new.

https://variety.com/2023/tv/global/my-brilliant-friend-season-4-cast-alba-rohrwacher-irene-majorino-first-look-image-1235506234/

 

 

[rlc]

Finally watched (binged) season 3. It was an intense watch. The actress playing Dede did a phenomenal job. 

My takeaway is that while Elena is attempting to grow into a full and independent person, her past holds her back. Nino and Lila are like a mirror for her. In Nino she sees the idealized version of herself, and in Lila she sees the manifestation of all of her insecurities and self-doubt. Lila draws people in and has incredible confidence. One has to wonder if she would have actually succeeded to the level that she and others believe she is capable if given the opportunity. I'm excited to see season 4 with the new actors. I'm often wondering while watching if the actors playing Elena and Lila are truly that one-note, or if that's the direction they are being given. 

[aghst]

So no word yet on when season 4 will premier.

There's been no official word so others have pieced together a possible timeline.

For instance this site believes some filming was done in May.

https://www.napolike.com/lamica-geniale-4-ultima-stagione-quando-inizia-cast-anticipazioni

That's much later than one would hope.  Season 3 ended airing in February 2022.  So if they have been filming as recently as mid 2023, we may not get season 4 until next year.

 

In the mean time, I've found the Max Richter "Recomposed" theme of Vivaldi's Four Seasons in some other shows or movies.  Not sure which but it's unmistakeable and seems to have been used in more than one work.

OK, found a site and it was in a season 2 episode of The Crown, in fact it was used on that show before it was used on MBF.

But it made me want to look up the music used on the series, because I don't think there is an official soundtrack release.  Found this site which lists the music used on the show and links to some Youtube videos of the songs.

https://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/periods-genres/film-tv/my-brilliant-friend-theme-tune-soundtrack/

 

[aghst]

Fourth and final season starts on Monday, September 9th.

Quote

Elena and Lila will say goodbye this fall: My Brilliant Friend will return for its 10-episode fourth and final season on Monday, Sept. 9, at 9/8c on HBO.

The final collection of episodes will be based on The Story of the Lost Child, which is the fourth book in Elena Ferrante’s My Brilliant Friend quadrilogy.

For the uninitiated, My Brilliant Friend tells the story of “Elena Greco and the most important friend in her life,” according to the official logline. “She met Raffaella Cerullo, whom she has always called Lila, in the first year of primary school in 1950. Set in a dangerous and fascinating Naples, their story goes on to cover more than 60 years of their lives and explores the mystery of Lila, Elena’s brilliant friend and — in a way — both her best friend and her worst enemy.”

The fourth season — starring Alba Rohrwacher as Elena Greco, Irene Maiorino as Lila Cerullo and Fabrizio Gifuni as Nino Sarratore — finds adult Elena and Lila “entangled in the turmoil of Italy in the late 80s, nearing the end of decades of political violence and social unrest. Amid motherhood and career demands, amid betrayals, threats, disappearances, and natural disasters, Elena and Lila once again reside in the same neighborhood.

https://tvline.com/news/my-brilliant-friend-final-season-4-release-date-hbo-1235284364/

So about 2.5 years since the last episode of season 3.  

Dang, will have to rewatch at least season 3, it's been so long.

So many shows returning the rest of this year are in this category, at least 2 years since the previous season so you have to rewatch or find a good recap.

Severance, Pachinko off the top of my head.  Covid and writers/actors strikes have been disruptive for TV shows, even this one produced in Italy.

[BetterButter]

 

[meep.meep]

It's back!

[tennisgurl]

I'm so glad this show is back, I missed it so much! Even when the characters frustrate me, I'm always fascinated with them. I like the new cast, it always amazes me at how they can find people who look so much like the previous actors. 

Elena is so smart in so many ways, but her IQ takes a nosedive every time she's around Nino. I cant believe she left her daughters for two years to run around with that fuckboy...no I can totally believe that, she has the biggest blind spot with him. Then of course she gets all surprised when she finds out that Nino is doing the same shit he always does, even after every single person in her life told her that he's going to hurt her again. Its especially frustrating that she spends so much time in her books talking about how men from her neighborhood mistreat women (using Lila as an example) but she is always allowing herself to get pulled into Nico again who she knows doesn't treat women well. 

Pietro isn't exactly a catch, but he does seem to be a good dad to his kids, which is more than Nico can say. The scene where she went to see him in the hospital was so good, Elena felt so distant from what used to be her family, even her daughters. 

Not a whole lot of Lila, but I'm glad that she is still there for Elena and is (for now) trying to be supportive without too much "I told you so" rubbing in.

[meep.meep]

I haven't read the books but it seems like they recast the leads just to indicate that they are different people than we have been watching all along.  Could Elena be a bigger idiot?  Her ex-husband has to tell her that the girls should be in school?  And actually going back to Nino when she knows his wife is pregnant?

The part with the policemen was hilarious.

[aghst]

16 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

I haven't read the books but it seems like they recast the leads just to indicate that they are different people than we have been watching all along.  Could Elena be a bigger idiot?  Her ex-husband has to tell her that the girls should be in school?  And actually going back to Nino when she knows his wife is pregnant?

The part with the policemen was hilarious.

I think they wanted to recast the leads because they wanted to show their adult lives.  The way Elena was making out passionately with Nino, the previous actress who started on the show at like 13 or 14 years old was probably too young to do those scenes or the one scene where she and Nino are frolicking in the nude.

When they showed Lila for the first time, they showed the old actress for an instant, because that is how Elena remembers her.  The new actress playing Lila resembles her but clearly is older.

The thing is, at the end of the previous season, I thought they showed Elena looking into a mirror and it was an older actress looking back at her.  But I'm not sure this actress playing Elena is the same one that was in the mirror image from previous season.

 

 

[kimchibucatini]

57 minutes ago, aghst said:

The thing is, at the end of the previous season, I thought they showed Elena looking into a mirror and it was an older actress looking back at her.  But I'm not sure this actress playing Elena is the same one that was in the mirror image from previous season.

It is the same actress (Alba Rohrwacher)! Alba has also been the narrator (Elena's voice) through the entire series. 

[aghst]

First two episodes, general impressions, you dive right back into this story, even though the lead actresses have changed.

As this was based on a later book, the tone feels different than the previous seasons.

We could pass judgement on Elena for foolishly still pursuing Nino.  At times she seems blind to Nino's shortcomings.  First of all, overlooking or forgetting Nino's father's affairs, how it destroyed others and how alienated Nino was.  Yet he ends up repeating the same pattern of behavior that he repudiated as a youth.

I can't recall if young Elena also judged Nino's father at the time, but if she did, it would be telling that she's enabling it now.

I don't quite recall why things went sour for Elena's marriage but she's being brutally honest, stops sleeping with her husband, makes it clear to them that she's going to end up with Nino.

Life in Turin and Milan is interesting, the way northern Italians, in this case a very-educated milieu, look at Napoli and southern Italians as kind of savages or a foreign, undeveloped country, as Elena regales them with tales of the horrors she witnessed, like Lila being thrown out the window for insisting on continuing her education.

Elena's mother in law chides Elena for speaking to Nino or Lila crudely in the Neapolitan dialect.  Once it's clear that Elena is going to leave Pietro, Elena is no longer the charming girl who rose out of Napoli to join the civilized world.  Instead  its something like you can take the girl out of Napoli but you can't take Napoli out of the girl.

Elena doesn't care that Nino offends other intellectuals by blaming Aldo Moro for being kidnapped.  She thinks for a time that she and Nino are better than others.

Then the reverie ends quickly when Lila tells them that Nino never left his wife.

For a time, she thinks she and her daughters can live with Mariarosa.  But she's missing Nino, craving him physically as well as emotionally.

Her introspection is very compelling.  It's easy to dismiss her for falling back on old patterns or making bad life decisions.

She admits to herself that she loves Nino more than her own daughters but she also knows that he is stringing her along, just as his father strung along his mistresses.  But despite the shame and self-loathing, despite feeling like a fraud for being some emotionally dependent on a man while believing in women having autonomy, she can't stop thinking about him.

She has a book contract but her mind is so consumed that she can't even write so she's got no financial means to support herself and her daughters.

Unfortunately, the tragedy with Franco forces her to move herself and her daughters into Nino's home, which might as well be a world away from her old neighborhood, even though it's in Napoli -- interesting that the tunnel which was the border between the neighborhood and the wider, more comfortable world, still serves as a crossing.

 

[Glade]

Nino's new actor does not have the looks of his younger self that made it almost slightly understandable that Elena would run off with him at the end of S3.  Now he just looks like any random middle aged married guy who will never leave his wife for you.  

[aghst]

I can’t recall if Nino found out that Elena let his father have his way with her on that Ischia beach.

She’s still uncertain where she stands with him, whether he was going to be happy about her being pregnant.  Yet she will endure unpleasant memories and more self loathing.

She’s achieved a measure of success — says she is becoming an important name.

Yet she can’t help but be drawn back to Lila, who has certitude where Elena constantly suffers from doubt, just as she can’t quit Nino.

Even the simple but brutal wisdom of her uneducated mother seems to be enticing to her in its clarity.

Being back in Napoli is still not being real to her real self.  Via Petrarca is on the other side of the underpass from the old neighborhood and as Lila says, the sea is just a colorful blob from Nino’s high rise apartment, not the reality at sea level.

[rlc]

7 hours ago, Glade said:

Nino's new actor does not have the looks of his younger self that made it almost slightly understandable that Elena would run off with him at the end of S3.  Now he just looks like any random middle aged married guy who will never leave his wife for you.  

I have an acquaintance who had an affair that lasted decades with a man she dated in her late teens/early 20s. She was briefly married to someone else, and hasn't had a real relationship since then (she's now around 60) because she was in love with the man with whom she had the affair. The affair is always off and on, but she always ends up back with him. He is married with a now grown child. I did not know this man in his youth, but he is not the sort of man that you would expect anyone to pine for. I guess this is a long way of saying that this storyline rings true for me. 

I am enjoying the new season immensely and will be sad to see it end.

[Mindthinkr]

On 9/25/2024 at 10:36 AM, rlc said:

I have an acquaintance who had an affair that lasted decades with a man she dated in her late teens/early 20s. She was briefly married to someone else, and hasn't had a real relationship since then (she's now around 60) because she was in love with the man with whom she had the affair. The affair is always off and on, but she always ends up back with him. He is married with a now grown child. I did not know this man in his youth, but he is not the sort of man that you would expect anyone to pine for. I guess this is a long way of saying that this storyline rings true for me. 

I am enjoying the new season immensely and will be sad to see it end.

Is this the last season of this series?

I just watched the episode called: Earthquake 

More than just the earth shook up. 

[aghst]

Maybe the crack in Nino and Elena's little love next is a harbinger.  Or it just makes her realize that whatever the little arrangement they have is broken.

She wasn't happy to find that Nino had left the city with his own wife, not her, to flee the earthquake.

But she's about to have his baby soon.

[meep.meep]

I just watched the episode of Pachinko with the giant Yokohama earthquake so I'm all shook up.

So Lila is the mafia boss now?  And won't hire Lenu's brothers.  Her own brother looked really rough.

[aghst]

32 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

I just watched the episode of Pachinko with the giant Yokohama earthquake so I'm all shook up.

So Lila is the mafia boss now?  And won't hire Lenu's brothers.  Her own brother looked really rough.

I forgot about that.  Not clear what her business is.  Rino bragged about selling computers or something.

Lila seemed to have a regular office with a waiting room.

Not clear what kind of business she has.  You'd think the Solaras would kind of control all businesses in the neighborhood, at least retail and restaurants, like if they don't pay for protection, they might be subject to fire or vandalism.

I can't recall previous seasons now.  They tried to have a shop selling her shoe designs at an upscale area of Naples, away from the neighborhood.

They had also a fancy food shop I thought.

Maybe the books tell the story more because last we saw of Lila, she was working to exhaustion or getting sick working in a prosciutto factory?

So how does she go from that to running some business?

[aghst]

S04.E05 The Fracture

Quote

After her daughter is born, Elena is consumed with jealousy when Nino and Lila step in to take Immacolata to the hospital.

Leno still distrusts Nino, rather send him away and get herself to the hospital in the middle of the night when she goes into labor.

But after she gives birth to her third daughter, she has a brief reprieve from her feelings of doubt, fears of abandonment.

Lila brings Elena's mother, to see the newborn who is named after her, Immaculata or Imma to be more modern.

But then the mother grows sick and Nino insists that he and Lila take the mother to the hospital, which immediately arouses Elena's suspicions.

Soon, Lenu is more consumed with fears that Nino and Lila are becoming close again.  She's more preoccupied with them than her sick mother or her newborn daughter.

It's like a female version of Othello, imagining Nino and Lila getting close.  In her mind's eye, they're not having sex or even kissing, just getting close, face to face, maybe just as intimate as kissing or having sex.

She can't trust Nino but she also can't bear the thought of losing him to Lila either.  That's despite Lila openly expressing contempt repeatedly for Nino's character, telling Lenu that Nino is using her -- something that she knows deep down but won't acknowledge to Lila or anyone else.

 

[aghst]

S04.E06 The Cheat

Quote

After a tragic loss and stunned by Nino's actions yet again, Elena takes refuge at Lila's and finally learns the truth about him.

Elena is pushing 40 with a newborn, just buried her mother.

But she was in denial about what kind of man Nino was.

Repulsed by catching him having sex with their domestic help, she realizes that he’s no different from his predatory father.  Nino’s betrayal made her remember that unpleasant episode on the beach in Ischia.

And yet, she tells Lila that she can’t live without him.

Which causes Lila to tell her what she’s suspected all along, that he’s been repeatedly pursuing Lila, that he preferred Lila to her.

It doesn’t matter how acclaimed her books are, how much renown and demand from publishers to write more.

Lenu is still the little girl who feels inferior to her friend.

[ShellsandCheese]

Antonio, the philosopher. How does this show just get better every episode. 

[aghst]

Quote

Season 04.E01:  The Return - Still reeling from her break with Nino, Elena learns that her new book is a success... but it could land her in the Solaras' crosshairs.

I don't even remember Antonio that much.  He becomes muscle for Lila?

In any event looks like Elena is over Nino, finally, once he learns that Nino was trying to fuck any woman he could get his hands on, many of whom he encountered through Elena, like her babysitter, her gynecologist, nurse, etc.

What is his power, telling women he can't live without them?  Because when they show him talking on TV about politics or whatever, he's not particularly charismatic.

Maybe persistence, because even after being caught screwing the old housekeeper -- pulling an Arnold Schwarzenegger -- he still tries to get back with Lenu, though with all the women he can get, why does he need to win her back?

So Elena finally moves out of Nino's apartment after that, moves in under Lila's apartment, back at the old neighborhood.

Well it helps her focus and she rewrites her life story basically, just changing names, because the violence and desperation in the poorer part of Naples is fascinating to the rest of Italy.

But it's not too long before the hood reminds her why she at one time couldn't wait to get away.  Michele starts beating Antonio right under her apartment, in broad daylight.

Then he threatens Elena, doesn't like his family portrayal in her book.  But really she's a proxy for Lila, who also uses intimidation to make money off the poor.

Soon as they make some money, you'd think they'd move away for good.  I wonder how many people who are able to escape such impoverished areas, go to university and have some financial success still move back to such rough places.

Maybe it was common in Italy or at least in this part of Naples.

IIRC, past incidents of violence made them swear they wanted to be done with the place.

Remember that the pilot episode of this series, Lila has gone missing.  Elena as an old woman is narrating this, looking back on her life, including her life with Lila.

Did Lila go missing because of foul play?

I think there's only one more episode left and that's the series finale.  They may not wrap up a lot of things.

 

[meep.meep]

2 hours ago, aghst said:

I don't even remember Antonio that much.  He becomes muscle for Lila?

.....

But it's not too long before the hood reminds her why she at one time couldn't wait to get away.  Michele starts beating Antonio right under her apartment, in broad daylight.

 

Antonio's mother was having an affair with Nino's father and went crazy when he left her.  Antonio stood up for Lenu when Nino's father kept coming after her.

Michele was beating Alphonso in the street.  The previews made it look like he was beating Lila, but that's just because they were dressed alike.

In the first episode when Lila is missing, Lenu reassures Rino (whether it's her brother or her son) that she's always wandering around and not to worry.

[aghst]

Thanks, yeah it was a typo, meant he was beating up Alfonso, who was also barred from the wedding reception.

Gay man should have looked to leave that neighborhood a long time ago but probably doesn't have money.

 

[marybennet]

One of the things the books and show are good about is the pull of what you were born into, the power of that provinciality. It’s hard to leave because you don’t have money or resources, because there’s no place better for you (Alphonso), or because there’s a strange comfort in knowing the place  you’re from, even if it’s awful. It can feel like you fit there. In the books, it has always felt to me as if Lila fits and resents Lenu for being able to leave, which is why (partly why) she pulls her back. 

[aghst]

I think Alfonso would have a better chance in a big city.

He went to the same school as Elena but I guess he wasn't a good enough student to get a white color job.

Is he dependent on his brothers for the money?

Elena seemed to mostly concentrate on literature and built a career as a writer.

Looks like Lila and Enzo do something with business, including computers.

Otherwise, most of them don't seem to have even a high school education or equivalent.

 

Edited October 22 by aghst

[Mindthinkr]

On 10/22/2024 at 12:01 PM, aghst said:

I think there's only one more episode left and that's the series finale.  They may not wrap up a lot of things.

I just watched last night’s episode and they gave previews of another. 

[aghst]

Yeah they're very much in the middle of a few plots.

S04.E07:  The Return

Quote

Still reeling from her break with Nino, Elena learns that her new book is a success... but it could land her in the Solaras' crosshairs.

They keep showing Nino on TV, because Elena can't escape him?  Imma stares at him, is withdrawn.

Lenu and Lila can't escape the neighborhood either.  They both have the means but they're trying to take it over, or at least prevent the Solara brothers from dominating it..

At one point, Michele suggests that Elena and Lila both leave but they won't do that, even though they're vulnerable to Solara's violence -- they finally kill Alfonso.  Not to mention, Lila's son Gennaro is a heroin addict and Elena's oldest daughter Dede is falling for him.

I guess they beat the odds in some way as little girls, getting education or in Lila's case, becoming successful in business despite not being allowed to continue her education.  But they faced travails and violence on this path.  Do they want to expose their children to it?

Their gambit is to expose the Solaras.  Apparently Lila has the books which the Solara's used in loansharking.  But the article isn't going to put them away.

Lila still wants the article published and Elena suspects that Lila is using her reputation as a writer to try to get a lot of media attention, for her own aims.

So Lila's using her, just as Nino used her.

Quite a scene when Elena and Lila are arguing about Lila sending in the article under Elena's name, not signing it herself.  At the same time, Imma and Tina are arguing, Tina trying to impose her will and view of the world -- a prince will save them and if not, her prince will also save Imma -- and Imma resisting.

Lila is influential or supposedly got a lot of the people in the neighborhood to vote communist, which is the opposite of what the Solaras want.  But the Solaras can potentially ruin Elena and maybe Lila as well.

Elena tells journalists that she had to both live in the neighborhood as well as get some distance outside of it to have a perspective about the place.  She may not want to admit to her former in-laws and other friends from Milan or Turin that  her Naples home is irredeemable.

Still she knows other places would be more stable for her daughters, yet it seems she and Lila are emotionally bound to their childhood home.

[rlc]

I am so sad that there is only one episode left. 
 

The acting in the scenes with Elena and Antonio in the last couple of episodes has been some of the most compelling in the series.

[Mindthinkr]

On 11/2/2024 at 1:44 PM, rlc said:

I am so sad that there is only one episode left. 

I think you re mistaken. I just watched a new episode from last night and they had previews from next week’s new one. 
 

This episode was dark and had a few surprises. Did everyone else quit watching? 

[aghst]

S04.E09:  The Disappearance

Quote

When a child disappears from the neighborhood, suspicion falls on the Solaras, while Lila becomes consumed by her own conspiracies.

Elena says she's over Nino, feels nothing for him.  But she finally arranges for Nino to come by and see Imma and the other girls.

She prepares for his visit, not exactly dolling herself up but cleaning up and having a list of things she wants from him, like regular visits to see Imma.

Then she starts worrying that Lila will show up and that Lila and Nino will start being drawn towards each other again.

Nino takes all the girls downstairs to show off his car but all Elena can see is that Nino and Lila are talking to each other!

Even though Enzo is right next to them!

Then she notices Tina is nowhere to be found.

Enzo accuses the Solaras of taking her.  Lila starts to spiral, becomes mean to Elena and her daughters.

Ending of the episode is shocking, unexpected.  Elena runs towards the gun shots, not away from them, sees both Solara brothers dead, lying on the ground in front of a church.

Lila's comments at the end of the episode make it appear like she could have arranged it.  Elena imagines how the shooting occurred and sees one of the shooters, a friend of hers from childhood, still looking like a young adult, not someone who'd be around 40 as Elena, Lila and their contemporaries would be.

They've shown Lila threatening clients of her business, Basic Sight, as if she's adopted some of the mobster tactics of the Solaras.

But it seems unlikely that she'd have hired someone to shoot the Solara brothers, since she was almost catatonic, as time passed since Tina's disappearance.