Scott & Bailey - General Discussion

[Portia]

Has anyone else tried this British crime drama? After reading Stephanie Green’s recent PTV “Get on Board!” piece, I checked it out and was immediately hooked. I think it’s smart without taking itself too seriously. The drama is peppered with some great moments of (often dark) humor, and the characters are complex and just generally terrific. The crime plots are are episodic (at least in the eps I’ve watched  so far), which is a refreshing change of pace since so many recent crime shows follow a single case over a long arc. Any other “Scott & Bailey” watchers out there? 

[soybombyx]

I liked that the crimes were fairly simple and relatively twist free. I feel like I've been watching/reading too many overly complicated crime stories.

I also liked Bailey's habit of zipping up her trousers AFTER coming out of the toilet stall. That always cracked me up.

Between this and Sherlock, boy, has Rupert Graves aged well.

[Portia]

Love your observations, soybombyx. We finished series 2 last night, and while both seasons developed a long story arc that culminated very dramatically, even the big stories just didn't feel gimmicky to me. I'm all in knots, though, trying to figure out when I'll be able to access the 3rd season on our Roku. (We're too old-fashioned to enjoy watching TV on a laptop.)

Funny, I just noticed the zipper thing last night. I love how Bailey manages to be so hot despite being rather slovenly and mannish.

My husband and I have never been able to remember Rupert Graves' name, so we always refer to him as British George Clooney because of the handsomeness.

As much as I care for both Rachel and Janet, my sun rises and sets with DCI Gill Murray. I can't decide if I would rather marry her or be her.

[kater]

Everything you just said.  Whilst I'm more than a month late to this party, I loved this show.  I gobbled up the two seasons available on hulu and can't wait for more.  Apparently they filming a fourth series.  Can't find the link right now.

[Llywela]

Oh, I've loved Scott and Bailey since I saw the first adverts for it, way back when - it's been must-see TV for me since day one. Already avidly awaiting the next series!

[dramachick]

I really enjoy this show!  Can't wait for the next series.  I think of it as more of a character driven show rather than a procedural, and I think they hit just the right balance with the crime stories. 

[cornekopia]

In my area it comes on at 3:00 in the morning, and I stay up and watch. Definitely love Gil, think Bailey is severely damaged, but my favorite moments have come from the seemeingly calm Scott. Her screaming matches with Andy (when he wouldn't leave her alone) and Rachael (when she had sex in her home) were out of the Sopranos; epic petty arguments, just harrowing.

[sugarbaker design]

So glad to find this thread, S&B just started airing on my local PBS affiliate recently (along with Father Brown), already on season (series) 2.   So many things to love:  that it's not set in London, Rupert Graves, two women partners with a woman superior, Rupert Graves...

I also liked Bailey's habit of zipping up her trousers AFTER coming out of the toilet stall. That always cracked me up.

 

I always took that as a sign that Rachel is very comfortable at the office.

my sun rises and sets with DCI Gill Murray. I can't decide if I would rather marry her or be her.

 

Be her, of course!

[myril]

Strong, complex, female leads portrayed as rather normal people - it's great.

 

They're filming season 4 at the moment (no air date set yet, sometime later this year). They have a Twitter account if anyone wants to keep track (SandBTV).

 

Finally got around to watch third season. And loved it. 

 

Had the pleasure recently as well to watch A Touch of Cloth, a comedy crime show, the Police Squad! / Naked Gun kind of spoof but for British crime drama shows, staring John Hannah and Suranne Jones (yes, Rachel Bailey). No idea how they managed to play that as straight as they do. My abs got some extra training. Recommend it. But warning, after watching it is possible, that occasionally you will have a hard time to keep a straight face watching the serious stuff like Scott&Bailey.

[novhappy]

This is a really great show. I enjoy how complex and real everyone's lives are end the fact that there reactions to events seem realistic, not scripted stereotypes.  I have only seen 6 of them ending with the Gruesome murder of the old lady with the bedridden husband. Is this the most recent season that I have seen?  I think I have not seen the first season and this that I watched is season 2.  Can anyone confirm that?  Thanks!

[Portia]

novhappy, it sounds like you viewed season 2. You can find pretty detailed episode summaries on imdb at the link below; just change the number to look at synopses from a different season. Happy viewing!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1843678/episodes?season=2

[myril]

novhappy, sounds to me like the last episode you have is the first episode of season 03, "Vulnerable". The murder of an old lady with bedridden husband is the case of that episode, Scott is kinda the one discovering it. In the final episode of season 2, episode 8, "Divided Loyalties", the case is that of a husband of an old lady who first seemed to have died by accident, meanwhile Bailey struggles with the aftermath of a drunken night.

 

Season 1 has 6 episodes, season 2 and 3 have 8.

Edited June 10, 2014 by katusch

[catrice2]

Love the show. Can't wait for the new season, although I have no idea if my local PBS will show it.

[becauseIsaidso]

Just discovered this show a few months ago and am hooked. Have NO idea what season I'm watching, but I could just do a bit of google and find out - in any event, I'll follow it as long as they make it.

[maraleia]

A place to discuss particular episodes, arcs and moments on the show's run. Please remember this isn't a complete catch-all topic -- check out the forum for character topics and other places for show-related talk.

[maraleia]

Post media mentions here.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/12/arts/television/suranne-jones-and-lesley-sharp-in-scott-bailey.html

 

http://www.afterellen.com/tag/scott_and_bailey/

 

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/news/a509350/scott-and-bailey-returning-for-fourth-series-itv-confirms.html#~oHFikR5cNHr6dk

 

 

[myril]

Two very different views on the show:

 

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2013-05-22/is-scott-and-bailey-the-most-sexist-show-on-tv

opinion is, that men are put into a bad light by the show

 

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2011-07-01/why-does-scott--bailey-hate-women

opinion is, that women are put into a bad light by the show

 

They do share the view the show being sexist though.

[myril]

Interesting how different some people see this show (not on here, but in reviews), from all enthusiastic about complex women over ranting it is putting men into a bad light to calling it even misogynistic (no kidding, see media thread). Couldn't agree less on the last view, but as well don't agree on men being mostly shown in unfavorable ways compared to the women lead characters particular.

 

Think the men on the show are not at all just portrayed as idiot, stalker or killer. for example I like Mitchell and Lee a lot and did so from season 1 on, and both are shown as competent, warm and smart. Right, Kevin is an idiot, but has his good moments. DS Andy Roper is a complex characters, competent in the job (and there is no doubt left about that), but with a major problem concerning relationships. Yes, he comes across even creepy at some point, and Janet makes it quite clear that he is, but looks like he is a guy taking things hard. Nick Savage is eventually a psychopath, okay, but it's not like Rachel didn't make some questionable decisions in their relationship. Stalking him at home, pushing for the flat - what was she thinking. Just because Rachel is one of the lead characters doesn't mean everything she is doing is considered okay by the show. Neither though did it justify what Savage did. Adrian, Janet's husband is a good guy, but he has his limits, and that is okay. It is Janet who cheats, it is mostly her job taking a toll on their relationship, and it might not be fair to her, that he walks out on her, but it is understandable. Adrian is no idiot.

 

It is one of the great things of the show, that they have characters, that are relateable, women and men, I could find something to connect with in most of the regulars so far, good things and shameful things.

 

Looking at the cases the show has a good mix IMO among the victims and perpetrators concerning men and women.

 

Do the regular, lead characters, the women of the show look so much better than the men? No. Strong to me means complex and that includes sometimes plenty of flaws. I have met these kind of women in real life, I am one of them. I have worked in by men and masculine behavior dominated fields (politics, tech), and yes, women are unfortunately often not that much better. I was a regular contributor to what we called "Macho-Kasse" (macho cash box) for stupid lines of the sexist kind, belittling women or sometimes men. I spend long nights drinking and smoking in pubs with the mates. I can be opinionated, nasty, grumpy, unfair, pushy and a hard and trying boss. And being good in a job doesn't mean one has a good grip of things in private life, and that can include mistake one would not make professionally.

 

Rachel,Janet, Gill are women struggling to make work and private life and everything in between work, complex characters and relateable to me. I don't want Uber-women on screen nor the boring damsel-in-distress or a hushed housewife in the background or the mother of all mothers. People have flaws, people have strength, and sometimes a strength can be a flaw and a flaw the advantage.

 

Two other things I like about the show, unrelated:

 

I like how one gets an idea, that solving a crime is a bigger team effort, not just a two-people team thing. And that it includes a lot pf paper work. Not long ago I did an open online course offered by the University of Glasgow about forensic science, with lectures about things like the approach to a crime scene, crime scene management, importance of control, preserve, record, recover, reconstruct, something like chain of custody (paper work!) - and the show comes quite close to that.

 

I love the interview scenes they are doing. Nice examples of cognitive interview in it. And have something of a chamber play.

 

edited for spelling (always nice to see the worst mistakes hours, days later)

Edited August 2, 2014 by katusch

[Llywela]

Interesting how different some people see this show (not on here, but in reviews), from all enthusiastic about complex women over ranting it is putting men into a bad light to calling it even misogynistic (no kidding, see media threat). Couldn't agree less on the last view, but as well don't agree on men being mostly shown in unfavorable ways compared to the women lead characters particular.

Great post (cut for length)! I totally agree with you. Of course, one reason why so many male viewers feel they are coming off poorly compared to the women is simply because the entire show is told from the point of view of the female characters, rather than the men, and viewers aren't really used to that - male viewers are so used to the perspective of male characters dominating, always being the vehicle through with stories are told, they find it hard to adjust when a story (particularly a story like this, set in a traditionally male-dominated environment) is told entirely through the female eye and all of a sudden, they aren't the centre of attention any more.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Llywela

[myril]

New trailer for the 4th season on ITV

 

[Portia]

Gill retiring? Take it back. Take it back!!!

[Ceindreadh]

Season 4 is starting on UTV on Wed 10th September at 9pm.

[myril]

Looking very much forward to it.

 

A few articles about the new season 4 (so containing spoilers!!)

Scott & Bailey: Lesley Sharp, Suranne Jones and Amelia Bullmore reveal all about the new series

Scott & Bailey's Suranne Jones: 'I love that Rachel's a maverick, but unlike her I've grown up!'

Scott and Bailey returns

Scott and Bailey actress Suranne Jones: 'I like to shock people'

 

And pictures of Suranne Jones from the new season: http://instagram.com/p/spxB9fQGYO/ , Lesley Sharp http://instagram.com/p/ssKij7wGSy/ and Amelia Bullmore http://instagram.com/p/sucSUuwGVM/

Edited September 10, 2014 by katusch

[Portia]

Wonder how long we poor Americans will have to wait.

[joelene]

I binge-watched the whole thing just a few weeks ago. Had no idea how good I timed it with the new series but I'm glad I did. So good.

[Dissy]

The first two shows of Season 4 are up on youtube now. New season is great!

[MDKNIGHT]

I have no idea where I am in the continuity of this show as I just happened to catch an episode about 5 weeks ago on a PBS station and had never heard of it before.  Have to say I really like it and think the acting is awesome.  I like the case of the weeks and the overall story arch about the detective's lives.  I am wondering if I could get the series from the beginning on dvd in the US. 

[supposebly]

I just discovered this one on Netflix and it's awesome! Just finished season 1.

Female perspective, normal looking women, cases that won't let themselves get lost in numerous ridiculous "twists" that the experienced TV watcher can see a mile away coming.

 

I did wonder about Rachel getting back together with Nick after he kicked her out of the apartment. No way would I have reacted to any of his phone calls after that.

 

Although, he did look like Rupert Graves......

 

Why is this even a discussion whether male characters come off "badly"? 80% of all female characters on TV or movies are mainly decoration or are being fridged to get the plot for the male protagonist going, and yes, I do include the so-called ass-kicking ones that wield swords and guns in skin-tight outfits and high heels.

[editorgrrl]

I am wondering if I could get the series from the beginning on dvd in the US.

PBS sells seasons 1&2 on DVD:

http://shoppbs.org/product/index.jsp?productId=29630446

http://shoppbs.org/product/index.jsp?productId=29630456

[MDKNIGHT]

Thanks I've ordered season one for now.

[supposebly]

Just finished season 2. Oh my. If Andy gets fired for this, Rachel will get doubly fired if this ever gets out.

 

Still, Andy calling Ade like this, cheap shot. He was such a creep during the whole thing.

 

Sean is a bit too good to be true, isn't he? Or is this just my inner Rachel showing?

 

Aw, Gill's son wants to be like her. Don't we all?

[supposebly]

Ok, now I finished season 3. I guess it's just me then....talking to the ether.

 

I'm starting to have a hard time with Rachel. She was such a coward with Sean. Sleeping with Kevin to find enough excuses so Sean would break up with her. Worse, doing it in Janet's house! Ew!

 

Poor Kevin. He really didn't fit in, that was painfully obvious from the start.

[Llywela]

You're really racing through the seasons, supposebly.

 

I don't really have much to say - although I adore the show, I've not re-watched any seasons since they originally aired, so I get blurry as to what happened when! I did enjoy seeing Sean Maguire in season 3 - I remember him as a scrawny 12-year-old in Grange Hill, he's aged rather beautifully!

[sugarbaker design]

FYI, S&B Season (or Series) 4 is airing on Channel 21 WLIW, I caught the first episode last night.

[kat165]

Sugarbaker, I've been watching too. Do you think Jill is really going to retire? I love her character & hope she doesn't leave the show. I was so bummed when the handsome detective who had a thing with Janet moved to another precinct and left the show.

[kat165]

Does anyone know if Jill actually retires? I love her character/the actress who plays her. I like the 3 women together. I really hope she doesn't leave.

[Llywela]

Does anyone know if Jill actually retires? I love her character/the actress who plays her. I like the 3 women together. I really hope she doesn't leave.

As of the final episode of the last season, Gill has retired. I can't imagine the show without her either, but we don't even know if there's going to be another season, still less whether she'd still be in it somehow.

[kat165]

Thank you, Llywela. That is indeed sad news if she does not return. I really like her and I think Bailey is too immature to be in charge. Although Jill isn't handling herself too well these days either (the drinking). Where I am (I watch via local PBS station) they are on the season where Bailey gets her promotion and she's having an affair with that higher up guy. She's just had yet another tiff with Janet after Jill let slip that she'd asked Janet about the promotion first & that Bailey was 2nd choice.

[Llywela]

Thank you, Llywela. That is indeed sad news if she does not return. I really like her and I think Bailey is too immature to be in charge. Although Jill isn't handling herself too well these days either (the drinking). Where I am (I watch via local PBS station) they are on the season where Bailey gets her promotion and she's having an affair with that higher up guy. She's just had yet another tiff with Janet after Jill let slip that she'd asked Janet about the promotion first & that Bailey was 2nd choice.

Bailey wouldn't be in charge, even if there were another season with Gill retired. Bailey was only just promoted to DS and is still learning the ropes of that role - Gill was a Detective Chief Inspector, and someone else of that rank would be brought in to head up the syndicate (although the DS might be asked to take a lead during the recruitment period). This isn't a show that tends to take huge dramatic licence with that sort of official procedure - they've shown the sergeant's exams, the recruitment process, etc, and what a slog it is to climb the ranks. I can't imagine they'd suddenly handwave all that aside to slot either Rachel or Janet permanently into the hot seat now. More dramatic mileage in having to cope temporarily before having to adjust to a new boss with a new approach.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Llywela

[kat165]

Thank you, Llywela, for the info re: rank. I don't know much about how police rankings work in England (or even in America either actually) so I appreciate the info. I do watch a lot of British police/detective dramas, but really have no idea whether S & B is following correct procedure or just winging it. The show is so well done, it's nice to know that they follow along with the real life rules and how things work.

 

Are you in England?

 

It's great to finally be able to chat a bit about this show with someone. None of my friends watch & this is the first board I've found that even has an S & B thread, although it's pretty quiet here.

 

This is currently my favorite show. I like the realism and the relationships amongst the 3 strong women lead characters. The stories are well done and it seems very real, quite unlike American police dramas.

[Llywela]

I'm in Wales, not England - but in the UK, yes. ;)

 

Alas, S&B isn't a show that tends to generate a lot of talk, excellent though it is. I've loved it from day one. I love the style and structure, the straightforward nature of the writing, how sharply drawn the characters are. Real is a good word for it, procedurally - there seems to be an emphasis on getting the police work right (however simple and mundane) over twisting it for dramatic effect, the drama generally comes from the personal lives of the characters, but even there is always feels down to Earth, and I love that earthiness about it.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Llywela

[kat165]

That's cool, Llywela. I have some Welsh heritage on my dad's side. Would love to visit there.

 

I agree with everything you've said. There's no other show here like it. It's so well done. At first it bothered me how open ended some of the episodes are, but then I got into it (even though I had to wait from week to week to see what happened). I love the realism. And how Jill barks out orders for her staff to work on.

 

What really kept me in suspense in particular was the ep where Jill is abducted in her car. It was shown at the end of one ep and I had to wait 2 weeks for the rest of the story to unfold. That was so unusual.

 

I checked online to see if there will be a 5th season but have found nothing yet.

[carrps]

I also love this show! And the realness is part of what  makes it so appealing. I get depressed when I don't have an episode to look forward to. :-)

 

We see it on our local PBS station, too, and we just saw the episode where Rachel tripped up that Fred West style killer. Is that the 4th season?

[dustylil]

The Fred West style killer arc is in Season 3.

[kat165]

The fundraising is finally over and they actually put S & B back on their Tuesday night schedule. It's been weeks since the show has been on. Our stations here usually rework their scheduling after a fundraiser so I was surprised and delighted to see it back on. Rachel's bf just broke up with her and she confronted Jill about her retirement. It didn't sound like Jill was in any hurry to retire. This is my favorite show now and I was so happy that it was back on tonight.

[sugarbaker design]

I'm a big fan of the show, big fan of BritTV in general.  I have a silly question.  During the interrogations we get the usual tableau: small table, four chairs, two police on the left side, defendant and counsel on the other, everyone's legs are under the table.  I notice when Janet interrogates, she's always sitting outside of the table, her legs are never under the table, she's always facing the defendant with no barrier between them.  Is this a new interrogation technique?  Any thoughts?

 

I do enjoy Janet's interrogation scenes:  the monotone voice, the dispassionate tone.

[Llywela]

I suspect that's just Janet's personal style.

[kat165]

I agree with Llywela about it being her personal style. But also, too, so far when I've seen Janet do the questioning she's the only one who does the questioning. The other cop just seems to sit there. I've never seen him or her add to the discussion in any way. Usually the lawyer is fairly mute too. I love Janet's interview style. She is so patient! Most of those suspects I'd like to ring their necks, but Janet always remains calm and patient. And she has such a soothing voice.

 

In the ep I just saw Rachel finally asked Jill when she expects to retire and Jill didn't seem to be in any hurry which wasn't the impression I got from her several eps ago. I like how Jill handled it too, that she'd continue to mentor Rachel, "take you under my wing" until she leaves. I do hope Jill decides to continue on. I love watching her/listening to her give the run down in the conference room when a new case breaks. None of this seems like acting at all. The whole cast is really quite good.

 

I kind of miss Sean, he was a nice regular bloke and I even sort of miss Kevin who was good for a laugh. Also, a few seasons ago the other cop that Janet was seeing when she was still with her husband. He was cute! As is Jill's husband who is in The Royals this season.

 

Sugarbaker, I love British shows, too. Midsomer is so scenic! And DCI Banks, Inspector George Gently & Vera usually have such good stories. I also watched Grantchester this season and it was pretty good although some of the stories were just fair. The acting was good all around though and I like period pieces. Of course, a big fan of Downton (but not so much Fellowes writing, rather repetitive, but the scenary, period details and costumes are incredible). I also enjoy Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries. The entire cast has great chemistry with each and again, excellent period details and gorgeous costuming. I also watch Keeping Up Appearance, Miranda, the Poirot/Marples series, Rosemary & Thyme & Doc Martin. Sometimes I will even watch Father Brown and New Tricks.

Moone Boy is hilarious (but that's an Irish show).

 

Which shows do you enjoy?

[myril]

I'm a big fan of the show, big fan of BritTV in general.  I have a silly question.  During the interrogations we get the usual tableau: small table, four chairs, two police on the left side, defendant and counsel on the other, everyone's legs are under the table.  I notice when Janet interrogates, she's always sitting outside of the table, her legs are never under the table, she's always facing the defendant with no barrier between them.  Is this a new interrogation technique?  Any thoughts?

 

I do enjoy Janet's interrogation scenes:  the monotone voice, the dispassionate tone.

 

It's not a personal style, not just Janet is doing it, can see Rachel doing it as well. Interview techniques in the UK differ from what is common in the US. In the US the rather confrontational Reid technique is still popular, but it has been critizised as leading to false confessions and is less acepted in Europe. In the UK they work with a framework called PEACE:

Planning and Preperation,

Engage and Explain,

Account,

Closure,

Evaluate.

They aim more at getting accurate and reliable information of what happened and through that get to possible involvement of the suspect, it's less accusatory. You can notice in the interviews Rachel and Janet are doing, that they go for information, details of what happened at a certain moment or in the relationship between the interviewed and other people, they don't push for a confession. The show is quite close to investigating processes and techniques used in the UK. Co-Creator Diane Taylor was a Detective Inspector at Manchester Major Incident Team and taught at Crime Faculty.

 

Having no desk between the interviewer and the interviewed (suspect, witness) makes psychological some sense. It can signal openess on the side of the interviewer. At the same time it makes it harder to hide, nothing there to hide behind, body language is more visible. And you can test it yourself, sitting face to face without desk between can make you feel rather uncomfortable even. A desk is a barriere creating distance,  it can be a spatial shield for protection, it can be in the way so to speak. For filming though a desk in the room is useful for framing to create interesting visuals.

[sugarbaker design]

You can notice in the interviews Rachel and Janet are doing, that they go for information, details of what happened at a certain moment or in the relationship between the interviewed and other people, they don't push for a confession.

 

I can and I have.  Thanks for all the info, I always felt the interview scenes had an air of authenticity about them.  Didn't know Diane Taylor's background.