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The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

Grammaeryn

By Grammaeryn
in Arrow

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wonderwall

wonderwall

Jeremy Jahns' review of season 3. He doesn't delve deep into it but basically he didn't like the flashbacks, was interested in Sara's death until he figured out that Laurel was supposed to take her position, didn't talk about Felicity, wasn't sold on Roy/Thea becoming instant badasses, didn't think the show can handle so many superheroes, liked Ray, liked Ra's well enough, overall liked the season well enough but could sense that if next season isn't better he may not watch the show anymore. 

 

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Morrigan2575
Morrigan2575

I always find it odd when people blame the writing for LLs failure. I'll give them that for Lauiver because of the whole cheating thing but, let's be honest if SA/KC had the chemistry that SA/EBR had,

lemotomato
lemotomato

Sorry, that argument rings really hollow when the show has had a history of killing off/mistreating other female characters without a peep of protest from those same "concerned" people. Moira Queen, S

ComicFan777
ComicFan777

I know that this is supposed to be Felicity's dark arc, but...Felicity desperately doing whatever she can to save people (damn the consequences down the road) doesn't make me think that she's losing w

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NumberCruncher

NumberCruncher

(edited)

See, I can take criticisms of the show like this seriously because at least it rightly acknowledges that S3 was weak for a whole variety of reasons. The ones that come off as ridiculous are the ones that zero in on one aspect that the reviewer happens to dislike as somehow bringing the entire show down, which always smacks of being driven by an agenda rather than honest criticism.

Edited by NumberCruncher
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Ceylon5

Ceylon5

 

They're very funny together, these ladies.  Is it just me, or was Emily a bit ambivalent about Arrow - very grateful for the opportunity and so on, but somehow not super enthusiastic about the show itself (maybe she hated this season too) or, at the very least, somewhat reluctant to talk about it?  As if it's taken over far more of her life than she's comfortable with and she won't be at all broken-hearted when it ends.  Not that she directly said any of that, but that's the impression I was left with.

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Velocity23

Velocity23

(edited)

I felt it was more the EPs talking storylines for Felicity and then not coming through with it at the end of the day. So she doesnt ask anymore.

Edited by Velocity23
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NumberCruncher

NumberCruncher

I felt it was more the EPs talking storylines for Felicity and then not coming through with it at the end of the day. So she doesnt ask anymore.

This was my impression too. Honestly, if that's the case then I can't blame her one bit. From the beginning EBR has always made it known that she valued the character above the relationship with Oliver and so what did the EPs do to Felicity this season? They ignored her own storyline and threw her at every male superhero character they could find.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

Arrow Season 3 Roundup: What worked and what didn't for Team Arrow

By Laura Hurley

http://www.examiner.com/article/arrow-season-3-roundup-what-worked-and-what-didn-t-for-team-arrow

Season 4 needs to involve the creation of a secret handshake for Team Arrow after they get stuck in quarantine or locked in the new Arrow Cave or stuck in the drunk tank together with nothing to do. Would them inventing a secret handshake make sense or necessarily jive with the assertion that these characters need to act their age? Maybe not. But it would certainly bring some fun back to the group.

Edited by wonderwall
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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

They're very funny together, these ladies.  Is it just me, or was Emily a bit ambivalent about Arrow - very grateful for the opportunity and so on, but somehow not super enthusiastic about the show itself (maybe she hated this season too) or, at the very least, somewhat reluctant to talk about it?  As if it's taken over far more of her life than she's comfortable with and she won't be at all broken-hearted when it ends.  Not that she directly said any of that, but that's the impression I was left with.

 

I didn't get the sense that she's not enthusiastic about the show itself. But I agree that it seems like she's realizing it's taken over far more of her life than she's comfortable with. I don't think she was really prepared for what a regular on a TV show entailed. She was very young when she joined Arrow (21) and I don't think she really understood what she was getting into. I really felt bad for her when she was talking about 14-hour days and forgetting to shower because of being so tired from the night before, etc. Apparently in Season 1 she only had to work 4 days (because she was still recurring) and her hours were also probably limited. She definitely has longer these days (starting in S2). I really liked it when she talked about working to find the balance between something that could become a grind and the craft.

Arrow Season 3 Roundup: What worked and what didn't for Team Arrow

By Laura Hurley

http://www.examiner.com/article/arrow-season-3-roundup-what-worked-and-what-didn-t-for-team-arrow

 

Loved the part about expanding the team but not sacrificing the core dynamics to legitimize new arrivals (I'm quoting this from memory so I'm probably off a bit). I know Thea and BC are going to be part of the team next season but God, I really hate seeing all the masks. It looks like a freakin' costume party or leather fetish party gone wrong (especially with all the buckles; the laces on Thea's red leather suit don't help).

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HighHopes

HighHopes

I didn't get the sense that she's not enthusiastic about the show itself. But I agree that it seems like she's realizing it's taken over far more of her life than she's comfortable with. I don't think she was really prepared for what a regular on a TV show entailed. She was very young when she joined Arrow (21) and I don't think she really understood what she was getting into. I really felt bad for her when she was talking about 14-hour days and forgetting to shower because of being so tired from the night before, etc. Apparently in Season 1 she only had to work 4 days (because she was still recurring) and her hours were also probably limited. She definitely has longer these days (starting in S2). I really liked it when she talked about working to find the balance between something that could become a grind and the craft.

 

I have only listened to the first 30 minutes or so of the podcast so far, but I think that might explain why she doesn't cons in her "free" time. She could have easily attended the con the others did this previous week since she too was in Europe, but instead she chose to spend her time vacationing. I'm sure at some point she will start to attend cons more regularly, but if your work is already demanding 90% of your time for approximately 10 months of the year, why would you give it even more of your time when you are not required to? She's young and probably has quit a bit of money- why not spend your free time exploring and vacationing and doing everything you can't when you're working? 

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Genki

Genki

Ask Ausiello's Non-Spoiler Spoiler for Arrow. Just proves a lot of the Stupid of this Season was to make Malcolm Ra's

 

 

 

Question: Too soon to ask about Arrow Season 4? —Rae
Ausiello: Theoretically, it’s way too soon. But in actuality, maybe not. Because when showrunner Marc Guggenheim told us that they knew at this time last year that Malcolm would wind up as the new Ra’s, we of course had to ask if they could tease the plan for next May’s finale. “The funny thing is I could,” the EP told Matt Mitovich, “because we are in the writers’ room right now working on the plan for Season 4. And though we don’t always start with where we’re going to end, where we’re going to end is an important part of our conversation. And the room today generated, I think, a potential ending that is very, very interesting. But the first step in surprising all of you is surprising us.”

 

Source: (X) Possible spoiler for other shows

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

That guy thinks Oliver should have just happily become the leader of the LOA.  Because yes, superheroes should totally volunteer to lead evil organizations of murderers. 

 

In other words, that guy is an idiot.

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Lady Calypso

Lady Calypso

That guy thinks Oliver should have just happily become the leader of the LOA.  Because yes, superheroes should totally volunteer to lead evil organizations of murderers. 

 

In other words, that guy is an idiot.

 

Well, seeing as one of his phrases is "pretty toughly", I'm not surprised.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Ever since S3 ended, completing the "trilogy" of the first three seasons, I've been worried about the next three seasons (since SA confirmed that he signed a 6-year contract) and that Felicity might be turned into the 'Gwen Stacy' of the Arrowverse.  Then I found this response by Laura Hurley, TV/film critic for Examiner.com and WhatCulture.com, on her tumblr page (I just hope she's right)...

anonymous asks:
Post-finale, I have one question. In final season(s) of the show, what's to stop writers from making Felicity meeting the same fate as a Gwen Stacy or Karen Page? As far as endgames go, they can't replace her, she'd be immortalized. I don't want Lauriver - I'm all for story and dialogue, and Olicity works. Her death would destroy Oliver, but force him to find reason to fight in her memory. That's what Arrow is about: keep fighting, living. It's what heroes do, what Oliver has to do. Thoughts?
laurawritesabout said:
Hi, Anon! Great question. I hope you don’t mind if I drag Thea into my answer.

 

From a meta perspective, the Arrow writers don’t have the greatest track record when it comes to killing off female characters for the sake of advancing the plot, and sending Felicity to her death would certainly give them one of those great big “Gotcha!” moments that they’re so fond of. Just look at the deaths of Moira and Shado and Sara. Nevertheless, the only point in the show that I could see executives actually allowing Felicity Smoak to die on Arrow would be if the show was winding down and ratings no longer mattered.

 

From a storytelling perspective, however, the waters are a bit murkier. Oliver is 30 years old and has been living a life of deprivation and violence for the past 8 years; at this point in the narrative, he is much farther along than Peter Parker or Matt Murdock were in their vigilante journeys at the time of their respective tragedies. Oliver is past the point of needing motivation to keep fighting. Fighting is all that keeps him going at times. Oliver needs motivation to want to have a life beyond the bare minimum requirements - physical, social, and emotional - for survival. Frankly, Oliver’s Gwen Stacy was his father’s suicide or Sara’s flashback “deaths” or Shado’s execution. He’s on the upswing now.

 

That’s why I truly believe that there are only two characters aside from Oliver himself who are safe from being permanently killed off. They are the two people who Oliver loves most in the world and quite possibly the only two for whom he would have made his deal with the devil to bring back to life. They are the only two characters that Oliver has never managed to entirely compartmentalize into tidy little boxes in his brain.

 

Thea and Felicity.

 

Short of the actresses choosing to leave the show or the producers getting desperate and sacrificing story for spectacle, Thea and Felicity cannot die if Oliver is to continue his growth from the soulless Hood of Season 1 to a fully realized Green Arrow. He’s already lost too much, and so much of him is invested in his love for these two women that he could never recover from one of them dying from unnatural causes. Ever. The show has gone too far in connecting his humanity to their roles in his life. They are the only surviving characters whose relationships always revolved around Oliver having a good heart underneath all of the gruff and growl. Thea is his last remaining connection to the person that he was before the island whose memories of him are not tarnished by immaturity and infidelity, and Felicity is the first person that he saw as a person after the island who grew to love him when she had no reason to do anything but give up on him.

 

Now, Arrow is not ending anytime soon. The original game plan was for five seasons. Thanks to the fact that I basically view all television through the incredibly unhealthy lens of The X-Files, I almost never swear by any endgame before the final credits roll. By the series finale, it’s entirely possible that Olicity will be separate and the show will revisit Lauriver and Felicity will be outed as a cyborg sleeper agent who techno-hypnotized Oliver into thinking that he loved her despite his super duper skeletal soulmate connection with Laurel. I will say right now, however, that I don’t believe that the show would be so incredibly shortsighted as to hamstring both the narrative and the hero’s development by turning Felicity into yet another Gwen Stacy for Oliver Queen.
May 18, 2015 3:11 am

http://laurawritesabout.tumblr.com/post/119262812031/post-finale-i-have-one-question-in-final

 

FYI, there are other interesting Arrow-related responses by Hurley (where she writes about Diggle/Felicity, endgame, Laurel's increased popularity, Felicity hate, the love interest curse, the "mytharc" for S4,  what is and is not 'fan service', and fandoms on social media) on her tumblr page:
http://laurawritesabout.tumblr.com/tagged/Arrow

Edited by tv echo
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DrSpaceman10

DrSpaceman10

I know people don't like gatv site but they're singling out Felicity and called her selfish. It would be nice if people can go to that site and go to that season3 finale post and give her a boost.

 

Do you mean in the review itself or the comments section?

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Morena

Morena

(edited)

I read it as suggestion; I thought they were just listing actors from cancelled shows and suggesting them for current shows.

 

 

We do not know if Damian will be Felicity's father, but if he is her dad and the actor is Macdermott, then:

 

 

 

 

CF3SbyXUMAAabAs.jpg

Edited by Morena
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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

I know people don't like gatv site but they're singling out Felicity and called her selfish. It would be nice if people can go to that site and go to that season3 finale post and give her a boost.

 

Might also be a good idea to tweet the EPs about the lack of professionalism at the GATV site. No name calling or anything like that, but emphasize that you as a fan do not appreciate the utter bias shown by the people who run GATV and think more should be expected from a site the show partners with. Just a thought. I know some folks who have done that as well as emailed the EPs and the network about GATV.

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olicityfan25

olicityfan25

Exactly. I've see a few people tweet the EPs about that site. It will work if more people do it. They even tried to blame the entire Olicity/Felicity fan base for chasing away one of their editors. When all some of the fans did was tell that editor he was being sexist towards Felicity. They got all up in arms about it and labeled the entire fan base as ruining the show. When it was them who are favoring one character. They even wanted to change the site name to BCtv after the Oliver dies episode. They said it was a "joke" but obviously not because they love that character too much.

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pootlus

pootlus

They even wanted to change the site name to BCtv after the Oliver dies episode.

BCtv standing, presumably, for "Bloody Crap tv" which is what Arrow would have become if Oliver had stayed dead.

That said I'm not sure starting a 'war' with another site is going to improve anything.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

I know people don't like gatv site but they're singling out Felicity and called her selfish. It would be nice if people can go to that site and go to that season3 finale post and give her a boost.

Wow, that review is terrible. (The "My Name is Oliver Queen" episode review just went up on the 23rd).  I don't think I've ever posted a rant directly addressing the reviewer.  Pushed some of my major buttons.  Like this section.  Bolding mine.

A bigger point of contention, though, is the aggrandizement of Felicity Smoak. Something very similar occurred with the character of Chloe Sullivan on the series Smallville, and it’s a bit odd that both characters share a lot of familiar traits. This is a delicate subject, so I’ll tread carefully here as it’s almost positive that some will take this to be some kind of rant against female characters growing and evolving. Nothing could be further from the truth. It’s been nothing but thrilling to see how Laurel and Thea have been changing and improving this year. How can anyone not be in favor of a character growing and coming into their own? Especially when that character was once one of your favorites.

The issue is when a character’s ability and importance are inflated to unbalanced levels, proving a detriment to other characters and the series as a whole. In the case of Chloe Sullivan, it wasn’t enough that she was intelligent, loyal, resourceful, and a tremendous sounding board for her best friend, Clark Kent. That she could be a hero based on her own abilities. No, they had to give her her own super powers. Then, they had to thoroughly change those powers. Then, they had to turn her into a complete savant with computers who eventually built a network that assembled all of the heroes. She became a deus ex machina for the show, and while I loved that she was Watchtower, the progression to get her there was unnatural. The fact that most of the heroes could hardly function without her involvement — including frickin’ Superman — felt less like empowerment and more like wish fulfillment while diminishing those around her.

 

http://www.greenarrowtv.com/arrow-3-23-my-name-is-oliver-queen-recap-review

 

The whole review managed to frustrate me including the parts where he called Thea the Red Arrow, said Ray had trouble flying on his first flight, and said Felicity's was only motivated by Oliver and quit the team when he died.  And that's before he goes into Felicity wanting thousands to die. 

 

Ugh!

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

BCtv standing, presumably, for "Bloody Crap tv" which is what Arrow would have become if Oliver had stayed dead.

That said I'm not sure starting a 'war' with another site is going to improve anything.

I agree.  Targeting them probably isn't the answer and they can group think whatever they want to over there, what bother's me is their continued false cry of non bias.  If they'd own their tendencies I wouldn't care so much, but no, I'm sure the reviewer thinks he's fair and balanced. 

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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)

Wow, that review is terrible. (The "My Name is Oliver Queen" episode review just went up on the 23rd).  I don't think I've ever posted a rant directly addressing the reviewer.  Pushed some of my major buttons.  Like this section.  Bolding mine.

http://www.greenarrowtv.com/arrow-3-23-my-name-is-oliver-queen-recap-review

 

The whole review managed to frustrate me including the parts where he called Thea the Red Arrow, said Ray had trouble flying on his first flight, and said Felicity's was only motivated by Oliver and quit the team when he died.  And that's before he goes into Felicity wanting thousands to die. 

 

Ugh!

Sounds like the reviewer is rehashing a lot of the talking points I keep seeing on pro-Laurel, anti-Felicity blogs. Did he also call her "selfish" and "self-centered"?

Edited by lemotomato
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TanyaKay

TanyaKay

I really don't get this argument that Felicity wanted thousands of people to die for Oliver. She just appealed to Ray and then we never heard a word from her after Ray said that he cannot abandon his work to save one person and asked her what would Oliver do. That was all each one of us saw and at no point did Felicity ever say that she was willing to let thousands die for Oliver.

I assumed that either Felicity or Ray or both of them came up with the plan that she would suit up and fly to rescue Oliver. How can anyone with a barely functional brain can turn that into an anti Felicity rant is beyond me, that guy needs medical attention. He should be on anti psychotics.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

 that guy needs medical attention. He should be on anti psychotics.

 

That guy does have nonsensical arguments but let's not take it too far. He's allowed to have his opinions. He may be a little trashy claiming to be objective when he clearly isn't, but I think this is taking it a step too far. I just hope that this guy gets few clicks next season.

 

Anyone who argues that Felicity wanted the thousands to die for Oliver is just looking for a reason to hate her. That's just it, imo.  

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anamika

anamika

(edited)

Anyone who argues that Felicity wanted the thousands to die for Oliver is just looking for a reason to hate her. That's just it, imo.  

 

 But it was ridiculously funny!

 

Ray: "I'm trying to save thousands of people!"

Felicity: (Shaky voice) BUT OLIVER!!  *tears*

 

Sounds like the reviewer is rehashing a lot of the talking points I keep seeing on pro-Laurel, anti-Felicity blogs. Did he also call her "selfish" and "self-centered"?

 

I  don't think there are really any pro-laurel, anti-Felicity sites. It's just how fans respond to characters based on the writing.  For example, The AV club and IGN were all pretty anti-Laurel  in the earlier seasons. The tide has just turned this season. Getting away from Oliver's toxic dick has done wonders for Laurel's character and it's showing in the fan reception towards her.  I actually saw upvoted comments on the AV club where viewers wanted a show about Diggle, Laurel and Thea fighting crime. That's an amazing turn around for a character that was pretty universally despised early on and I think it's the writing. Laurel actually got a story line independent of Oliver and got some development and agency and it was great. I hope we see more of that in season 4.

Edited by anamika
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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

 But it was ridiculously funny!

 

Ray: "I'm trying to save thousands of people!"

Felicity: (Shaky voice) BUT OLIVER!!  *tears*

 

To be fair, I don't know anyone who wouldn't think of their loved ones who are about to die first. It's a knee jerk reaction to think of your loved ones first. It's a human reaction. The tears are obvious because it was supposedly a tense situation. I also don't know anyone who would remain calm and cool and not feel desperate as their loved ones' lives are put in jeopardy. But that's just my opinion. 

 

The way I read that scene was: Felicity's knee jerk reaction - save Oliver. Then Ray tells her that there are thousands of other people's lives at stake, that grounds her. That reminds her of the stakes and so she has to come up with a contingency plan, which she did. She didn't push Ray into going to save Oliver, she didn't throw a temper tantrum...

 

Like I said, anyone who were hating on her for that was just looking for a reason to hate her because they couldn't bother trying to see her POV. 

 

IDK I think maybe you found it funny because there was no sense of urgency to anything in the finale? Like obviously Oliver wasn't going to die again :p

Edited by wonderwall
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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

I  don't think there are really any pro-laurel, anti-Felicity sites. It's just how fans respond to characters based on the writing.  For example, The AV club and IGN were all pretty anti-Laurel  in the earlier seasons. The tide has just turned this season. Getting away from Oliver's toxic dick has done wonders for Laurel's character and it's showing in the fan reception towards her.  I actually saw upvoted comments on the AV club where viewers wanted a show about Diggle, Laurel and Thea fighting crime. That's an amazing turn around for a character that was pretty universally despised early on and I think it's the writing. Laurel actually got a story line independent of Oliver and got some development and agency and it was great. I hope we see more of that in season 4.

 

I agree there is no one reputable site that does critical reviews that's pro Laurel and anti Felicity. GATV is definitely not a reputable site. Kudos to the writers for making people like Laurel more. I wish I were one of them, unfortunately I am not. I still have my issues with her character, maybe the writers will write her more consistently next season? And possibly fix the character issues I've had with her? IDK I've sort of given up on her and am completely indifferent now and just don't care. 

Edited by wonderwall
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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)

I  don't think there are really any pro-laurel, anti-Felicity sites. It's just how fans respond to characters based on the writing.  For example, The AV club and IGN were all pretty anti-Laurel  in the earlier seasons. The tide has just turned this season. Getting away from Oliver's toxic dick has done wonders for Laurel's character and it's showing in the fan reception towards her.  I actually saw upvoted comments on the AV club where viewers wanted a show about Diggle, Laurel and Thea fighting crime. That's an amazing turn around for a character that was pretty universally despised early on and I think it's the writing. Laurel actually got a story line independent of Oliver and got some development and agency and it was great. I hope we see more of that in season 4.

I don't think Laurel was written any better this season than in previous seasons. She had storylines independent of Oliver last year too. (In fact, she spent most of season 2 separate from the main storyline.) The difference this year was that Laurel got a mask, which apparently covers up all the plot holes and inconsistencies and problems (lying to her dad for 3/4 the season, copying Sara's everything, her instant fighting ability). Oliver was also written badly this season, and poor Thea had no agency, but they also both wear masks, which is why I'm guessing no one is nitpicking on them either. Funny how Felicity is the only non-mask left on the show (Diggle doesn't have one, but at least he's in the field), and how she seems to be the target for more criticism than any other character is getting.

Edited by lemotomato
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wonderwall

wonderwall

I think some people are mixing up the reviewers/critics and normal people who comment on the comment section. I don't think I've seen any reputable critic who writes Arrow reviews be overwhelmingly pro Laurel and overwhelmingly anti Felicity. I don't think I've seen them blame Felicity for this season nor have I seen them nitpick Felicity. 

 

People in the comment sections are the ones who are doing that basically. I don't really tend to count them. I much more care what critics say. And not ones from random sites, but reputable ones like AV Club (who have been more positive on Laurel but haven't been anti Felicity), IGN (same as AV Club), TV.com, TVline, Vulture, EW, E!online (not very reputable but really popular), Hitfix, etc.

 

Most critics who were disappointed with Felicity didn't actively hate her but hated the fact that she was given such a narrow focus, meaning, her arc was pretty much her figuring out who she should date. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing because it means that these critics want more for Felicity than have her just be a romantic lead. 

 

As for Laurel's relationships with a lot of these critics, they have noted an improvement on her character, but I haven't seen many love her nor pay that much attention to her .Let's be real, she hasn't gotten any publicity at all after the finale. 

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