The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[tv echo]

Arrow Season 5 Episode 15 – “Fighting Fire with Fire” Review
4th March 2017 Kevin Perreau 
http://www.filmoria.co.uk/arrow-season-5-episode-15-fighting-fire-with-fire-review/

Quote

Prometheus is finally back on the screen, and in a episode filled with action and revelations, Fighting Fire with Fire was an episode not to be missed. Last week’s episode left Oliver Queen trying to save his career from the cop killing scandal that could possibly destroy him as the mayor, as well as destroy the Green Arrow as a hero. However, Arrow went in full throttle this week, exposing a lot of crucial information for the rest of the season.
*  *  *
One particular sidekick who has stepped up is Mr. Terrific. A fantastic episode for Curtis to realize what kind of hero he has to become to help benefit the team....
*  *  *
One character who is continuously put down seems to be Thea Queen. After destroying Susan’s career and relationship with Oliver, it seems she has not learned anything. She confides with Felicity to blackmail a member on the court to help Oliver. The council ultimately votes against Oliver’s impeachment, but Oliver still loses one of his closest allies. Thea decides that her political obligations to Oliver can not be morally justified, and she resigns from her political career. There does not seem to be more options for Thea to help Oliver or Team Arrow, but only time will tell if she will have a future role.

After Thea’s request, Felicity realizes the potential of Pandora. Starting to entertain her hacktivist path; Felicity’s descent into digital power is a mysterious and exciting one. She decides to officially join Helix. A very confused Felicity is probably finding solace in something she comprehends fully, a group that is able to gratify her tech needs. A compelling story line with a more than mysterious group. It would be fascinating to find Helix to be an ally for Team Arrow in forthcoming episodes. Prometheus is possibly Oliver’s greatest villain, not only for his frightening persona, but for using information and attacking Oliver. Prometheus has managed to plant a seed inside his team, caused him to kill a cop and, whilst unsuccessful, made a massive blow in the city’s trust to Oliver. While dark and mysterious groups in the universe are never a good thing, Prometheus isn’t a villain that they can defeat by brute force alone.

Edited March 4, 2017 by tv echo

[bijoux]

15 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Arrow Season 5 Episode 15 – “Fighting Fire with Fire” Review
4th March 2017 Kevin Perreau 
http://www.filmoria.co.uk/arrow-season-5-episode-15-fighting-fire-with-fire-review/

If only I were watching the same show. This dude apparently really loved the episode and I honestly envy him on that.

[tv echo]

Apparently the merge threshold for consecutive posts in the same thread has been changed, so now you may see multiple media reviews merged into the same post. Sorry, there's nothing I can do about that, since I can't wait out the required time in between each post in order to keep them separate (it used to be around 4 minutes, but now I have no idea what it is)...

Allison Brennan and Lavinia Kent analyze 'Arrow' episode 'Fighting Fire With Fire': Big reveal, but has something changed?
Mar. 3, 2017
http://happyeverafter.usatoday.com/2017/03/03/allison-brennan-lavinia-kent-arrow-recap-fighting-fire-with-fire/

Quote

AB: ... My son said something very interesting. 'Did they get new writers? Because the writing is so bad.' Normally, I wouldn’t be that publicly critical of any writers, but I think he’s on to something — something has changed over the last few episodes related to the writing, because nothing is fitting the way it should be. Don’t get me wrong — I still love the show — but it hasn’t met my expectations lately (albeit, because of the previously strong writing, I do have high expectations).

LK: I also still love the show, but you’re right that something has changed.
*  *  *
AB: ... I had forgotten that the doctor at the hospital knows Oliver’s identity as Green Arrow, and while the scene was interesting, I didn’t like that after she prescribed him a friend (to just listen to/talk to) that his first reaction was to call Susan Williams. I really, really feel that the writers have been forcing us to accept that Oliver has feelings for the reporter, but I have felt/seen absolutely no real chemistry between them. I get that they’re setting it up because Susan is going to be kidnapped by Prometheus next episode, and they want us as viewers to care, but I don’t. I don’t like her, never did, don’t trust her, never felt the chemistry between them. This is something the show runner should have picked up on from the beginning — it’s more than a little obvious to me.
*  *  *
LK: I am clearly still reeling from this one. I am not sure why I don’t want to accept it, but I am just not ready. My son, the comic book purist, is even more upset. He wants it to all be a mistake. In his mind, Adrian Chase can only be Vigilante.
*  *  *
AB: ... I’m actually really upset with what the writers have done to Thea the last few weeks. Well, not so much Thea — she’s being a smart and ruthless politico. She gets it — no one plays fair, so she’s not going to play fair, either. This was a direct result, I think, of how Susan Williams manipulated her in the first episode or two. She realized she went in naive, and she refused to ever allow herself (or Oliver) to be used and manipulated again by the press or politicians. While we don’t have to agree with her decisions, I think it was totally in character and showed she was actually smart and thinking several steps ahead.

What I don’t like is how Oliver is treating her, making her out to be the bad guy. When you take the moral high ground in politics, almost always you’re not going to be in politics for very long. Oliver is too Mr. Smith when it comes to being in public office. Maybe Thea should be mayor!
*  *  *
LK: I think you may be right about that — and I have been missing her. I have some of the same feelings about Felicity. I find the road that she’s traveled believable, but not quite how she’s gotten there. At the beginning of this season, the writers had such a wonderful opportunity to use the guilt that she was feeling over Havenrock as a motivation for almost anything, and instead, I felt that they squandered a few conversations with Rory. If instead they were using that guilt to push her to make worse and worse choices in the name of the greater good, I would believe it, but that’s not what they’re doing, or at least not what they are showing us.
*  *  *
And the last thing that I still don’t understand — the Susan Williams relationship. I have now decided that it is serious and not a plot on either of their parts, but it just doesn’t seem real to me. I’ve thought about it and decided that if back at the beginning of the season the writers had added a few scenes dealing more with Oliver and Susan’s actual attraction, I might feel very differently, if they’d shown a scene of Oliver having doubts but still being drawn to her. Instead, as I said at the beginning, I feel like this is a perfect example of telling instead of showing. As viewers, we’ve been presented with the relationship, but were never shown the chemistry that led to it, or shown why Oliver ever decided to trust her or was unable to help himself despite not trusting her. Because of this, I’ve been waiting all season for the secret plan and now have to readjust my thoughts.
*  *  *
AB: I’m hoping next week will be good — I guess I’ll channel my inner Curtis and be an eternal optimist. But because the writers have forced us to think that Oliver/Susan are a “real thing,” I suspect she’s going to die, and I’m not going to care much nor will I believe Oliver’s emotions about it because I didn’t feel anything between them.

Arrow Pulls a Batman Begins With Its Big Prometheus Reveal
March 2, 2017 by Kelly Konda
https://weminoredinfilm.com/2017/03/02/arrow-pulls-a-batman-begins-with-its-big-prometheus-reveal/

Quote

Is it lazy of me to still see traces of The Dark Knight trilogy in Arrow’s storytelling playbook? We’re five seasons in at this point. Isn’t it fair to say that Arrow is kind of its own thing at this point?
*  *  *
Spoiler Alert from 2005: The man Bruce Wayne believed to be his friend and mentor was secretly the villain hiding in plain sight. In Christopher Nolan’s version of things, Liam Neeson’s Henri Ducard, a honest-to-goodness, easily Googled real comic book character, was actually Ra’s al Ghul the entire time, a brilliant twist on both general audience and comic book reading fan’s expectations.

Now, on Arrow we come to discover Prometheus is actually DA Adrian Chase, who has always seemed a tad unhinged but threw us (and Team Arrow) off the scent by doing upstanding things like sticking his neck out to clear Diggle’s name. We had been led to believe Chase’s extra bit of “there’s something not right with him” intensity was because he was secretly Vigilante. The show made this connection by often cross cutting between the two. Plus, in the comics Adrian Chase really is Vigilante (just as Ducard really was just some guy named Ducard before Nolan made him Ra’s al Ghul).
*  *  *
... The fact that they did it in the same episode in which Oliver allowed the city to think Green Arrow is a villain, recalling Dark Knight’s “he’s  the hero we deserve, but not the one we need right now” ending, only compounded the Nolanisms throughout.
*  *  *
As for the rest of the episode, it oddly felt like a repeat of last week’s episode (shame on you, Thea, so sayeth Oliver) while also oddly treading similar territory as this week’s Flash (a hero always finds another way). I actually found it quite galling to see Oliver harping on Susan Williams so much, not because I root against those two but that it seemed absurd to begin a sentence talking about his pending impeachment and end it with his worries over patching things up with his girlfriend (both Thea and Felicity hilariously called him on this). But the episode was designed to cement Oliver’s season 5 (or at least recent season 5) status as hero, sticking to high-minded ideals about how to use the office of mayor and multi-tasking if he must to restore Susan’s good name because it’s the right thing to do.
*  *  *
2. New theory: There is no Helix. There’s simply that one girl, and she has been Single White Femaling Felicity for years, secretly plotting to replace her on Team Arrow.
3. Related note: Is it weird for Emily Bett Rickards to be acting opposite an actress who is so clearly doing a glorified impression of her?

Edited March 4, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

The new wait period if you don't want merging posts is apparently now around 1 hour(!), so there will definitely be multiple reviews in the same post in the future...

Agents of GEEK Podcast Episode 63
Craig Wack & Tatiana Torres   Mar. 3, 2017
http://agentsofgeekpodcast.com/wordpress/

-- Since Craig and Tatiana didn't review Arrow last week, they discussed 514 and 515 together. 

-- Craig said that Thea/Felicity's teaming up to discredit Susan Williams before she could expose Oliver as the GA was "the right move." Tatiana added: "For real. I want to smack Oliver on the head. Like, would you rather she had given up your secret?" Craig: "Right. Have her tell your secret and have you arrested?" Tatiana: "Also, she's not even that good of a girlfriend. Obviously." Craig noted that they've rarely been together, so he doesn't know "what's going on."  Tatiana: "Stupidity. Stupidity." Craig pointed out that, for four years, Oliver has been "so focused on saving the city, but all of a sudden this one particular woman comes around, and he's like, 'yeah, we'll deal with the city later.'"  Tatiana added that, for four years, Oliver's been "so close to Thea and so worried about Thea all the time, blah, blah, blah, and then he has the f**kin' gall last week to be like, 'you're turning into our mother' ... She should hit him."  

-- Tatiana said that she was "so pissed this week" because, even though Thea's "always had a small role, she always makes the most of what she's given," and this week she was like, 'oh, I have to go find myself, you're right, I am turning into mom.'  The hell! Like, you already gave up superhero-ing, and now you're giving up politicking? Like, I don't want you to go, I'd like to keep Thea, please!" Craig added that they've slowly "stripped away her value to the show." He would've preferred it if they had made Thea "the real power behind the throne" and made her the "actual, functional mayor of Star City" Tatiana agreed and said that she had been "really excited to see that."

-- Craig said that it's just in these last three weeks that we've suddenly spent a lot more time in Oliver's mayoral office than in the Arrow Bunker. He joked that SA must've gotten tired of "getting in the leather" and just wanted to put on the mayor's suit for awhile.

-- Craig: "It's aggravating as all get out because Oliver has been acting like a lunkhead and, you know, has done some real dickish things, chief among them in this week's show... He's like, 'yeah, I know that I killed your boyfriend and all, and I know that you're my ex, but it would really, really be cool for me if you get my other girlfriend back for me because you're the one who -'"  Tatiana interjected: "Felicity! Don't do it! Stop it. You're better than this." Craig added that Oliver "laid the guilt trip" on Felicity and she helped him.

-- Craig said that Susan got her job back, "even though she is committing the fire-able offense of sleeping with the mayor while she's on the city hall beat, and now I guess, because of Oliver's magic dick, she's deciding to sit on this story that is the biggest story." Tatiana: "Don't pretend you love him that much, you liar!"  Craig: "Right. You're only getting close to him to prove that he is in fact - you know, that he did spend - at least that he is a part of the Russian mob!" He also noted that Susan's been working with that private detective and "he knows just as much as she does." Tatiana: "Yeah. So what's to stop him from releasing it." Craig thought that the impeachment process "would've been the logical time to drop that story," so the private detective must be wondering why Susan didn't publish the story.  Craig said that it was just another one of those "giant plot holes".

-- Tatiana did want to give them credit for the Prometheus reveal. Craig agreed and gave them "kudos for running counter to comic canon." However, he felt that "they weren't done with that yet" and that "there's going to be another switcheroo in there." Tatiana was surprised because she thought that they had confirmed that Chase was the Vigilante in show. Craig had reservations about whether there really was 7 episodes' worth of stories left of Oliver and Chase just "working side by side, and sort of battling each other at night."

-- Tatiana pointed out that there's still "stuff happening with Felicity and how's that going to affect everything." Craig agreed and also added there was "the new buddy comedy team of Wild Dog and Mr. Terrific," as well as "Nu Canary." Tatiana hated Paul for divorcing Curtis, but she really likes Tinah, although she snarked that she must be really good at her job because "she got promoted super fast, we just didn't see it." Craig laughed: "Suddenly, she's gone from, like - I know she's got experience and everything, but you would think there'd be some sort of probationery period where she would learn how to do paperwork and stuff. But no, it's like, you know, five minutes after walking on the job, ... she's on the mayor's protective detail, which is convenient now because it gives everyone the opportunity to hang around Ollie's office."

-- Tatiana noted that the only ones who don't have jobs now are Felicity and Curtis, and wondered how they're supporting themselves.  Craig suggested that maybe they're drawing some sort of checks from Palmer Tech.

-- Craig thought that the Pandora/Helix story is "going to be an interesting direction" for Felicity. He didn't want to call her 'Dark Felicity,' but noted that she seems "more willing to take things into her own hands, and not sorta be on the sidelines... and make an impact on her own." Craig also thought that Helix is giving off the vibe of being like the "DC version of HYDRA." Tatiana agreed, although she felt bad because "Felicity deserves to have all the win, she literally is like the best one." Tatiana also liked how Felicity was "orchestrating the team to protect Ollie, she was like, 'it doesn't matter, I'm in charge.'"

-- Craig noted that the problem with Oliver in these last few episodes is that "he seems happy to be a spectator to his own life... Here he is about to lose his job and potentially go up the river for murder, and he's more concerned about getting his girlfriend back than, like, saving his skin as mayor." Tatiana: "It's nonsense is what it is. It's nonsense."

-- Now they're wondering who the Vigilante is, since he isn't Chase.

-- Craig hoped "for better days ahead for Arrow." He thought there were good "individual small bits," but they can't put it all together: "Oliver is kinda dragging the whole show down, and they really need to get Oliver back into another situation here to have him be heroic." Tatiana suggested putting Oliver with Diggle more because "he's always better with Diggle than with Stupid Lying Reporter people."

Edited March 4, 2017 by tv echo

[tangerine95]

There doesn't seem to be one review that doesn't think Oliver is a moron and Susan is horrible lol. These writers do have a gift of having at least one big storyline a season just be universally hated. I mean when people are saying Oliver and his storyline are dragging the show down and they don't get what he's doing then they clearly have a problem. 

[tv echo]

Caution: I've read and posted a few reviews (like A.V. Club and Filmoria) that gloss over or just don't mention the whole Susan situation and Oliver asking Felicity for help.  

Also, I don't post every review, but I do post mostly mainstream media reviews with a few fan reviews thrown in.

Edited March 4, 2017 by tv echo

[kismet]

5 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

There doesn't seem to be one review that doesn't think Oliver is a moron and Susan is horrible lol. These writers do have a gift of having at least one big storyline a season just be universally hated. I mean when people are saying Oliver and his storyline are dragging the show down and they don't get what he's doing then they clearly have a problem. 

On a positive note for O/F fans, this debacle of a storyline has nothing to do with O/F romancing at all. Susan/OQ is sucking and dragging the show down all on its own. Personally, I think that is why I don't want O/F to reconnect over Susan, because I want FS & O/F to be far away from this flaming trash dumpster of a season.

But you're right, the writers do seem to have a knack for bringing together the fandom over universally hated storylines since s3. It really is a misguided gift. Imagine if they were able to channel that power for good and write a universally loved storyline for once?

[Belinea]

@tv echo Thanks for posting the reviews.

I cannot emphasise how much I love the podcast this week! I laughed so much. 

22 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Tatiana: "Stupidity. Stupidity." Craig pointed out that, for four years, Oliver has been "so focused on saving the city, but all of a sudden this one particular woman comes around, and he's like, 'yeah, we'll deal with the city later.'"  Tatiana added that, for four years, Oliver's been "so close to Thea and so worried about Thea all the time, blah, blah, blah, and then he has the f**kin' gall last week to be like, 'you're turning into our mother' ... She should hit him."  

She really should tell him that he has no right to say that to her because I choose to believe he'd do exactly the same. Only problem might be that he wishes he were as clever as Moria. 

22 minutes ago, tv echo said:

because of Oliver's magic dick, she's deciding to sit on this story that is the biggest story."

Well, she must really love the magic.

23 minutes ago, tv echo said:

she really likes Tinah, although she snarked that she must be really good at her job because "she got promoted super fast, we just didn't see it

I laughed at that, I was wondering the same thing but it didn't bother me in the grander scheme of things.

23 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Oliver is kinda dragging the whole show down,

They obviously haven't heard that you have to watch all 23 episodes to understand why Oliver is an idiot. Only after that you can say he is stupid. Before that you are not getting it.

[insomniadreams88]

Just now, Belinea said:

I laughed at that, I was wondering the same thing but it didn't bother me in the grander scheme of things.

Yeah, same here, mainly because I hate his security detail that tells reporters where he is and ... that's pretty much it? We haven't seen them do anything else, so I'm very okay with Tinah being part of it.

[kismet]

I'm just surprised they didn't make Mad Dog part of his security detail. Really thought that was coming. Instead we got him in the mayor's office to pathetically flirt and then replace TQ, because she became too good at her job for a female on this show.

Tinah as Mayoral Security Detail as a new Detective is your Typical Arrow Dumb & Senseless. So par for the course.

[lemotomato]

11 minutes ago, kismet said:

and then replace TQ, because she became too good at her job for a female on this show.

I'm pretty sure Thea isn't on screen because of BTS stuff with WH. At least that's what I got from MG suddenly announcing that she's only in 14 episodes this season.

[thegirlsleuth]

I like Allison Brennan's blunt comments, looking beyond the details of the terrible plots to call out the writers for being bad and the show runners for trying to tell us Susan is wonderful and she and Oliver have great chemistry without actually showing us that chemistry. 

[kismet]

11 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I'm pretty sure Thea isn't on screen because of BTS stuff with WH. At least that's what I got from MG suddenly announcing that she's only in 14 episodes this season.

Agreed, it's a BTS logistics. I understand the behind the show reasons. I don't agree with their in-show narrative reasons for explaining her lack of episodes. But in true Arrow style they found a way to be demeaning and reduce a females credibility & skill set on the show.

Their treatment of TQ, just perpetrates their ongoing sexist treatment of females that are not permitted to be professionally successful on the show. Bonus points on the SEXISM meter is that they found a way to make the only females turn on the other females all in the service to THE Male character. They could have just had TQ deciding to take time for herself & her own career. Tell OQ to grow up and start doing his actual job. Simply have her say that she wants to do more for her life, rather then torpedo her career by having her resign after a scandal, which essentially makes her the scapegoat.

Heck, they could have impeached OQ, made TQ mayor and then have her be too focused on being the Mayor offscreen to be involved in the Arrow plot. But that would be female promotion and enhancement; and Arrow does not do that type of female enhancement.

[statsgirl]

Star City needs Thea Queen to be mayor.

On 2017-03-04 at 10:44 AM, kismet said:

I'm just surprised they didn't make Mad Dog part of his security detail. Really thought that was coming. Instead we got him in the mayor's office to pathetically flirt and then replace TQ, because she became too good at her job for a female on this show.

Mad Dog is too much of a rebel to be willing to go through police training in order to be on the mayor's security detail, don't cha know?  Instead they had to leap frog him into the administration office.  Does he even have the literacy skills to do the job, because he seems too much of a rebel to have gone to college?

Edited March 5, 2017 by statsgirl

[kismet]

6 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Mad Dog is too much of a rebel to be willing to go through police training in order to be on the mayor's security detail, don't cha know?  Instead they had to leap frog him into the administration office.  Does he even have the literacy skills to do the job, because he seems too much of a rebel to have gone to college?

No but he carries a big gun, so it's all good.

[tv echo]

Some may argue that too much Olicity was the problem with S3 and S4 (I disagree), but jbuffyangel makes a good point that the season's Big Bad is the real, primary focus of each season and where the Big Bad fails, the season has problems - S3's Big Bad was a weak Ra's al Ghul and S4's Big Bad was Damien Darhk ('nuff said). However, I don't mind Chase being Prometheus as much as she does, and I don't think he is the major problem this season.  But I totally agree with her outrage over Oliver's asking Felicity for help with his Susan problem...

BURNED: ARROW 5X15 REVIEW (FIGHTING FIRE WITH FIRE) 
jbuffyangel   MARCH 05, 2017 @ 00:53
http://jbuffyangel.tumblr.com/post/158014154128/burned-arrow-5x15-review-fighting-fire-with

Quote

Uh huh. That’s it. When you have casual viewers reacting to the back story of the Big Bad like this then it’s a problem. We can argue whether or not romance, like Olicity, is a focus of Arrow. But you know what is a focus of Arrow? The Big Bad. The entire season revolves around this character. Everything happens because of the Big Bad. So, when your Big Bad feels blah then you have a season problem. 
*  *  *
Oliver asks Felicity for help. This is nothing unusual. That’s how they began. Oliver asking Felicity for help. Asking Felicity for help is normal. It’s no big thing. It’s fine. It’s allllll fiiiiiine.
*  *  *
Except when Oliver asks Felicity for help with SUSAN. Boy… have you lost your damn mind? WHAT EVEN?
*  *  *
I’m willing to concede from Oliver’s perspective he was solving a problem. A hacker ruined Susan’s career. A hacker needs to fix it. Since Felicity is that hacker, Oliver wants to give her a chance to fix it. On the surface it seems like reasonable a request. 1+1 = 2. Right?
*  *  *
The request comes off like Oliver wants Felicity’s help getting his girlfriend to call him back. 
*  *  *
Oliver, this is not Felicity’s problem. This will never be Felicity’s problem. Figure out how to get your piece of ass back into bed on your own.
*  *  *
Not that killing Billy is really a fixable problem, but taking down Prometheus is Felicity’s priority. What is your priority? Saving Black Siren, dating Susan, playing Mayor, dating Susan.  Has Prometheus even hit your nifty top fifty on your “Things To Do” list Oliver? Methinks not.
*  *  *
It’s like Oliver is an oak tree. A big, dumb, oak tree. Sturdy, strong, can provide protective cover when necessary, pretty to look at… you get where I’m going. But brain activity? None to speak of. BIG. DUMB. OAK. TREE.
*  *  *
Oliver, while you were too busy worrying about the next time you’re going to get laid, Thea and Felicity were protecting your secret and the team. Can you stop acting like this is the worst thing Felicity has ever done? It’s not like she committed murder to protect your secret. I’m trying to remember… who committed murder to protect your secret…. hmmm… oh that’s right, YOU!
*  *  *
It’s not okay what they did to Susan, but that position would go down a lot better with me if Oliver also acknowledged that what Susan did to him was not okay either. Let’s spread the moral condemnation around fella.
*  *  *
So… what is it? Prometheus offered Oliver’s body as host to one of the Dominators? Is he Puppet Oliver? Pod Oliver? Whatever it is it needs to be something because this obtuse, insensitive, tunnel vision Oliver is not MY Oliver. It’s not Felicity’s Oliver. This is Laurel’s Oliver and I want no part of that mess. 
*  *  *
Honestly, I’m surprised Oliver is surprised when Thea quits and leaves. That’s what happens when you spend the better part of two episodes blaming Thea for everything that’s gone wrong in Susan William’s life and hold your new girlfriend accountable for nothing Oliver. How is Thea supposed to react when it feels like you are choosing some chick you’re dating a few weeks over your family?
*  *  *
Let’s just run down Susan’s greatest hits
- Plays Thea into giving up information on Quentin’s alcoholism, then writes an article on Lance in an attempt to burn Oliver, Thea, Quentin and their administration
- Investigates Oliver Queen while they are dating and doesn’t tell him.
- Admonishes Oliver’s lack of honesty about his secret identity when she’s been lying to him for weeks and weeks.
- Subtle threatens to expose Oliver’s secret by asking him for a comment ON THE RECORD
- When people around Oliver protect him from Susan’s threat, she pitches a hissy fit over losing her job and credibility, without recognizing the role she played.
- Blames Oliver for losing her job and credibility. Even though Oliver swears he had nothing to do with it, Susan doesn’t believe him. Susan expects Oliver to trust her enough, a reporter who’s been investigating him, with his deepest darkest secret, but doesn’t trust Oliver enough to believe when he’s telling the truth.
- Is vengeful over losing her job that she actually wishes Oliver harm. She wants him to be impeached.
- After Oliver is in well publicized car crash, where he experiences severe injuries and is taken to the local hospital, Susan refuses to answer Oliver’s call. Doesn’t care enough about him to see if he’s okay.
- Only wants to continue dating Oliver when her job is secured.
- Only decides to keep Oliver’s secret after securing her job. Keep in mind she made no promises of that any time she interrogated him about his identity.

Edited March 5, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

FYI: The wait time period, if you don't want consecutive posts to merge, is now around 5 minutes (thanks to the kindness of Admin., David. T. Cole).

Edited March 5, 2017 by tv echo

[MaisyDaisy]

I think it's remiss of me not to have said something earlier, but thank you so much @tv echo for uploading all the great stuff that you do on this page, providing the excerpts and links.

I really appreciate and enjoy what you do here :) 

[tv echo]

You're welcome!  I've been feeling so discouraged by Arrow this season that I sometimes think this forum is what's keeping me watching the show, one tedious episode after another.

Edited March 5, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow Round Table: Prometheus Is Revealed!
Paul Dailly at March 6, 2017 3:00 pm.
https://www.tvfanatic.com/2017/03/arrow-round-table-prometheus-is-revealed/

Quote

TV Fanatics, Jim Garner, Robin Harry, Kathleen Wiedel and Steve Ford, react to that shock reveal and discuss Oliver's next move. 
*  *  *
What did you think of Oliver revealing Green Arrow is a villain?
Jim: Meh... such a worn trope. It had more impact when he didn't have the Mayor's Office and Police backing him up. Honestly, I don't see it lasting long. He will be exonerated in short order. 

Robin: I think it was a dumb move. Green Arrow has operated freely in the city without Oliver as Mayor for a few years now, so it's not like GA needs Oliver's credibility to maintain his work. Also, Green Arrow was as much a beacon for the city as Oliver was; he just operates in the shadows. So Oliver discrediting GA not only makes Oliver look like an idiot (with less cred), but it forces GA to work under the scrutiny of angry cops and a distrustful city. Not to mention it gives Prometheus exactly what he wants. 

Kathleen: The real problem is that Oliver originally emerged as Green Arrow under the auspices that the Green Arrow was, quite specifically, going to be the heroic figure that the Hood/Arrow never was. Mayor Queen undercutting that by calling Green Arrow villain will, as Robin said, only make Oliver look like a schmuck if/when Green Arrow is exonerated. In the short term, it will certainly not help Oliver's ability to operate as Green Arrow in Star City.

Steve: He could have figured out another way, but it's not going to last long. Green Arrow will be seen as a hero again by the season's end.
*  *  *
What will Prometheus do to Susan?
Jim: Use her as bait. He wants Oliver, and now that he knows how much he cares for Susan, he's using it against him. 

Robin: I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that ending was a misdirect. It's a bit early for someone else to die and for him to reveal more of his game plan, so I don't think he's going to do anything to Susan at all. But hey, I've been wrong before!

Kathleen:  I'd love for that ending to be a misdirect, but I wouldn't put it past them to do a double-triple-backwards-cross just to mess with us. For all I know, Susan's a superhero herself and is more than capable of taking on Prometheus herself!

Steve: Either like Jim said, use Susan as bait or end up trying to force Oliver to kill in a way similar to Malone. 

Edited March 7, 2017 by tv echo

[wonderwall]

8 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Kathleen:  I'd love for that ending to be a misdirect, but I wouldn't put it past them to do a double-triple-backwards-cross just to mess with us. For all I know, Susan's a superhero herself and is more than capable of taking on Prometheus herself!

 

This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

[kismet]

After reading the roundtable excerpts above, my thought are -

If the plan is to not kill off Susan in the next episode. That's the only potential misdirect I see. Double crossing Damsel. Broken hearted OQ sleeping with the wrong one again. I really think it will be revealed that she is a super-villain, not a superhero. She is probably just another Isabel. Hopefully she didn't sleep with his Dad too.

Also misdirect or not, I'm ready for Susan to exit stage Left. I don't really care if it's in a body bag or a one-way ticket. I'm in a non-killing kind of headspace, so I would prefer no body bag. But she has warn out her welcome.

I also think the only reason the writers revealed the GA as a Villain, was because they suck at writing & creativity. Unless who knows, maybe next year OQ will be at war with himself. Or nu-TA will be actively pursuing him. That actually might be interesting, watching the show chase it's own Hero. And if they do that, then I will rollback some of my criticism on them because that would be a unique twist. TA vs nu-TA.

[tv echo]

‘Arrow’ Review: “Fighting Fire with Fire”
Nora Dominick   Mar. 7, 2017
http://emertainmentmonthly.com/index.php/arrow-review-fighting-fire-fire/

Quote

There’s only so much we can still talk about when it comes to Arrow’s lack of character development this season. Out of all The CW’s DCTV series, Arrow has lost sight of its characters the most. Every other show this season has revitalized its core characters to a point where the shows are better than ever. On Supergirl, Alex Danvers (Chyler Leigh) has undergone one of the best coming-out storylines on TV. On Legends of Tomorrow, Sara Lance (Caity Lotz) has become the leader we all deserve. And The Flash has taken Iris West’s (Candice Patton) imminent demise and made it an opportunity to push her character to the forefront. All of these shows are continuously growing their main, core characters.

Arrow has seemingly done the opposite. Oliver has unraveled all of his character development from the last five seasons. Last week, he actually got angry at Thea (Willa Holland) and Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) for trying to keep Susan Williams (Carly Pope) from discovering that he’s the Green Arrow. Now, the Oliver we know would’ve been right behind Thea and Felicity, but we digress.
*  *  *
This week, Oliver actually has the nerve to go to Felicity and ask her to help him get back together with Susan. First off all, Oliver, feel the room. You don’t go to your ex-fiancé for advice for your current girlfriend problem. Also, Oliver would never do this. He had a hard enough time telling Laurel (Katie Cassidy) that he had feelings for Felicity. Emotionally, Oliver has strayed far from the character we thought he’d become and we hope Arrow can get him back to a place where he can thrive.
*  *  *
Felicity’s darker storyline is presented some interesting character motives for everyone, but also showcasing some holes in Arrow’s characters. For example, Oliver seems to be blind to Felicity this season and this goes back to Arrow being afraid to even put them in scenes together. Yes, we love Oliver and Felicity romantically, but that doesn’t mean we can’t handle them as friends. In fact, it’s odd that they aren’t friends this season. For a person that would notice if she was missing for all of two minutes, Oliver has been so distant from Felicity for the entire season. The two of them share small moments, but it’s as if they didn’t share a friendship before their engagement. As Felicity dives deeper into Helix and the darker, hacking storyline, we hope Arrow can grow-up and have Oliver genuinely concerned for Felicity.
*  *  *
She’s been through as much as Oliver in the last season, but Arrow just hasn’t had the capacity to tell her side of the story. She’s broken and needs to find her own way to help Star City. So, Helix arrives at the correct time. Felicity’s vulnerable and this will hopefully lead her into a very interesting storyline. Rickards is the strongest asset in Arrow’s corner and she’s been sidelined for the season. With new characters introduced, we’ve forgotten about the character that made us love Arrow. As the show wraps season five, we hope to see more Oliver, Felicity and Diggle.

Edited March 7, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

I thought this was an interesting recommendation for Arrow...

You Should Be Watching: 'Arrow'
Trey Bankhead   Mar 6, 2017
http://buffalonews.com/2017/03/06/you-should-be-watching-arrow/

Quote

Want to see how a comic book company can organically build an entire universe on the small screen while keeping all of the genre’s best elements? “Arrow” is the show for you!
*  *  *
Why it’s worth watching: Lost to the world for five hellish years, Oliver Queen (Stephen Amell) returns to Starling City, intent on washing his city clean of the criminal, corporate and political elements that are bent are remaking his home to serve their own interests. But while the adventures of “The Hood,” who will later become known as “Green Arrow,” are certainly interesting, the true driving force of the series is the relationships Queen creates along the way.
*  *  *
John Diggle (David Ramsey), the bodyguard. Felicity Smoak (Emily Bett Rickards), the reformed computer hacker. Queen’s sister, Thea (Willa Holland). Together, they will form the core of a vigilante group fighting to preserve the city they love … but not without tragedy, upheavals, reversals and outright betrayals that follow them every step of the way.

It’s an addictive formula: Soap opera + intelligent characters + attractive actors + smart writing + adventure + gunfire and explosions. You’ll come for the action. But you’ll stay for the relationships.

Edited March 7, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Lexa Doig apparently did an interview with Icon vs. Icon on Mar. 7, so please keep an eye out for it!...

[kismet]

19 hours ago, tv echo said:

I thought this was an interesting recommendation for Arrow...

You Should Be Watching: 'Arrow'
Trey Bankhead   Mar 6, 2017
http://buffalonews.com/2017/03/06/you-should-be-watching-arrow/

Quote

It’s an addictive formula: Soap opera + intelligent characters + attractive actors + smart writing + adventure + gunfire and explosions. You’ll come for the action. But you’ll stay for the relationships.

 

19 hours ago, tv echo said:

And then leave IN s5 when all those vanish.

[way2interested]

Good Luck, @calliope1975

 

ETA: I find he's actually a pretty good interviewer, but I now fear more for the lack of focus on Arrow

Edited March 9, 2017 by way2interested

[Chaser]

Think happy thoughts @calliope1975....happy sexy Olicity thoughts :-)

[lemotomato]

KS wrote a run of the GA comics, so I don't think he'll neglect Arrow at the panel. I expect all his questions to revolve around comics, though.

[Morrigan2575]

39 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Good Luck, @calliope1975

 

ETA: I find he's actually a pretty good interviewer, but I now fear more for the lack of focus on Arrow

Why? Kevin Smith wrote a fantastic run of GA called Quiver.

[way2interested]

I was more thinking about knowing the context of what's going on in the season and having talking points/questions related to it. He'd probably have more insight into the season story arcs for Supergirl and Flash since he directed them, but I'm wondering if for Arrow and LoT he might just go way more broad in comparison.

[Chaser]

I know he did something to piss off some of the fandom. Part of it was liking a tweet about keeping Felicity out of an episode if he ever did one for Arrow. I think there was more but I don't remember it all.

[BkWurm1]

11 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Why? Kevin Smith wrote a fantastic run of GA called Quiver.

He had a kind of a clash on Twitter with Arrow fans (I think specifically Felicity fans) that ended with him saying he'd just do directing gigs at The Flash. 

Edited March 9, 2017 by BkWurm1

[apinknightmare]

5 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I know he did something to piss off some of the fandom. Part of it was liking a tweet about keeping Felicity out of an episode if he ever did one for Arrow. I think there was more but I don't remember it all.

I think someone made a Se7en joke about putting her head in a box and he liked it? He was a mess that day.

Edited March 9, 2017 by apinknightmare

[LeighAn]

He seems like he would be one of those its canon or its nothing comic boys so Im happy for him to stay far away from Arrow cause frankly what little GA comic panels I have seen looks cheesy and lame AF. The Flash can keep him.

[Chaser]

3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I think someone made a Se7en joke about putting her head in a box and he liked it? He was a mess that day.

I think you're right because I found a tweet from him defending it as a good pop culture reference. Cause that makes sense.

[lexicon]

I expect him to mention his dream of doing a live action version of Onomatopoeia on Arrow and say how he's come up with the perfect idea for it, then to look longingly at whichever Arrow EP is present. His interviews about how badly he wants to do an ep of Arrow seem to come across as moderately desperate to me, so I can't see him passing up the opportunity to mention it again. 

Edited March 9, 2017 by lexicon

[kismet]

I don't follow Kevin Smith enough, but I have seen him or heard him talking about Onomatopoeia a lot for the little I do see - so I do think he'll mention that. Isn't that also one of the characters he created or covered heavily in the comics he wrote?

Honestly with so many shows on the panel, I fully expect it to be very broad in terms of specifics for all the shows, with perhaps just a few niche specifics that Smith can't resist.

I also got the impression that Kevin Smith doesn't always engage fans the best way on Twitter, so perhaps his feud with the Arrow fandom got out of control for various reasons that might not reflect what would happen if he was ever to direct an Arrow episode.

That being said Kevin Smith is a Comics Book Guy, so the panel will probably be more Comics than if they had another host.

[calliope1975]

I listen to a few of KS's podcasts, and I like him. He's a bit of a tongue bather, though, which is fine. I do remember when he was bitching about Arrow/MG not wanting to hire him as a director. I promise to try to take notes and remember everything! (So, like 40%.)

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

I listen to a few of KS's podcasts, and I like him. He's a bit of a tongue bather, though, which is fine. I do remember when he was bitching about Arrow/MG not wanting to hire him as a director. I promise to try to take notes and remember everything! (So, like 40%.)

I like him too. I liked him more before he became all about pot (but maybe he's backed off of that some?). I also feel like maybe there's a long-running thing with him and MG, like...something with MG's wife Tara and some other show she worked on? But I could be remembering that wrong. 

[way2interested]

I just want him away from Arrow, ha. I like his enthusiasm (he got me more pumped up last year for DC movies when he hosted that interview special than I've ever been, whether they deserved it or not), but I just think it fits more with talking about Flash and Supergirl (not even just for the comic canon reason, just his overall enthusiasm for the shows) rather than Arrow or even LoT, which kind of follow their own canon more than anything. Him hosting a panel talking about all of them just rubs me the wrong way.

Then again, I think it's all because of my bitterness about them all having to share a panel, so I guess this would have happened no matter who they got to host  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

[lemotomato]

1 hour ago, LeighAn said:

He seems like he would be one of those its canon or its nothing comic boys so Im happy for him to stay far away from Arrow cause frankly what little GA comic panels I have seen looks cheesy and lame AF. The Flash can keep him.

To be fair, he's been pretty respectful of the show. He talked about Arrow in the last episode of his "Comic Book Men" show, saying that it did GA right and acknowledging that no one knew who GA was until Arrow made him popular. He's nothing like Ben Percy.

I don't mind KS, it's just that his focus doesn't align with mine.

[theOAfc]

52 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I also feel like maybe there's a long-running thing with him and MG, like...something with MG's wife Tara and some other show she worked on?

hmmm

[Cleanqueen]

58 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I like him too. I liked him more before he became all about pot (but maybe he's backed off of that some?). I also feel like maybe there's a long-running thing with him and MG, like...something with MG's wife Tara and some other show she worked on? But I could be remembering that wrong. 

seems like there is something personal going. It's odd that he's directed the other two shows that Marc isn't involved with.

[kismet]

There were also rumors that he had some issues with Jennifer Garner because she was Ben's wife, so maybe wives are just not his thing.

[JJ928]

A while back he did a reddit ama where he was asked about watching Arrow, that is when he went into an explanation about how he worked with one of the EPs on Reaper, and they had a falling out and that he'd never be allowed near Arrow. MG's wife was an EP on Reaper. I am paraphrasing, I'm gonna see if I can find it.

[apinknightmare]

I found it:

 

Quote

One of the producers of ARROW is married to one of the creators of REAPER. I directed the pilot for REAPER year ago, and while it went well enough to get picked up, the creators of the show didn't want me back for the series. At all. They did NOT like me, it turned out - even though they were always nice to my face. I was never told why they didn't like me, but years later I learned it was because I kept adding lines to the pilot script.

Now this whole situation bummed me out to no end because I was a huge REAPER-booster. After ducking the DGA for years, I finally joined JUST so I could direct REAPER. I offered to direct every episode if it went to series. I even turned my annual San Diego Comic Con panel in Hall H into an all-REAPER panel that year, putting the REAPER creators front and center. But apparently, it was adding lines to try to make a funnier show that fucked me. So when REAPER went to series, the closest I was allowed to the show I helped create and get picked up was a "consulting" credit (and the checks that came with it, to be fair). It was all so weird and high school.

The P.S. to that story? The creators fought for and chose an actress for the lead in the pilot that the network then wanted to swap out for Missy Peregrym. So rather than re-shoot the whole pilot, the network wanted to re-shot only the scenes featuring Missy's character. And since I was a DGA member, the production had to offer me the re-shoots first - while they were in pre-production on Episode 2. 

This was akin to going to see your girlfriend with another guy, but rather than be a little dick about it, I went up and re-shot the scenes. It was mostly to say g'bye to the cast - the majority of whom had taken the job because of me, they'd said. During the shoot, we'd all talk about how much fun it was gonna be when if went to series. So now that the parade was moving on without me, I at least wanted the cast to know that it wasn't my (or even the network's) decision.

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/24ykhj/hi_im_jay_mewes_and_this_is_my_heterosexual/chbz3as/

[kismet]

Hollywood in general does seem to have a very High School feel to it.

[Thundercatmary]

I always liked Kevin Smith due in part to him taking his daughter to see Twilight and how cool/supportive his comments always were.

It's been a long time so his attitude may have changed but I always appreciated that he didn't just automatically trash the movie and that he went with his daughter. 

:)

Edited March 9, 2017 by Thundercatmary

[tv echo]

No spoilers, no Arrow comments...

UPROXX 20: Juliana Harkavy Of ‘Arrow’ Likes Her Drinks To Come With A Snack
BRETT MICHAEL DYKES 03.09.17
http://uproxx.com/tv/juliana-harkavy-arrow-interview/