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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

Grammaeryn

By Grammaeryn
in Arrow

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Morrigan2575
Morrigan2575

I always find it odd when people blame the writing for LLs failure. I'll give them that for Lauiver because of the whole cheating thing but, let's be honest if SA/KC had the chemistry that SA/EBR had,

lemotomato
lemotomato

Sorry, that argument rings really hollow when the show has had a history of killing off/mistreating other female characters without a peep of protest from those same "concerned" people. Moira Queen, S

ComicFan777
ComicFan777

I know that this is supposed to be Felicity's dark arc, but...Felicity desperately doing whatever she can to save people (damn the consequences down the road) doesn't make me think that she's losing w

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TwistedandBored

TwistedandBored

On 9/15/2016 at 6:54 PM, Angel12d said:

Friends is one of those shows that's pretty timeless, IMO, and easy to watch. Even though my opinion of all of the characters/ships has really changed since it began. 

I know most of my sisters and cousins who never fully watched the whole thing when it was on or any reruns watch Friends nightly now. 

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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

6 hours ago, Angel12d said:

I do think 250k for one weekend is a bit obscene but that's Hollywood for you. But if you have the chance to make easy money, go for it. The only thing I side eye is the fact that it seems like the volunteers get nothing but a photo op and autograph but at the same time they are volunteering and no one is making them do it so...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Probably 250K before income taxes.

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Delphi

Delphi

According to the heroes and villains website, the Premium Stephen Amell package is $350 and that's limited to fifty people.   If it sells out, and I guess it does hence it being limited, that's $17.  But that doesn't even begin to cover hundreds of people who just want a photo for $100 or an autograph for $70 or both.  I don't think it's out of the realm possibility that he walks away with a huge amount of money. 

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looptab

looptab

(edited)
2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I was just gonna say - the comment on there is LOL. Thanks for the early morning laugh, Mary Anderson!

Like, a ten paragraphs tirade and she completely missed the point of the article, ahah.

Edited by looptab
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

7 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I was just gonna say - the comment on there is LOL. Thanks for the early morning laugh, Mary Anderson!

OH MY GOD, I had been wondering where she's been! I love this person, they used to be on Tumblr. They always write 85 paragraphs when 2 would make the point better.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

4 minutes ago, bijoux said:

The reply is longer than the article itself. Tl;dr. Is someone willing to recap?

Felicity is the WORST!

Actually that's just a guess, i lost interest after the first paragraph.  Especially after I scrolleddown and saw how long the comment was.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

Plus, she completely missed the point - the writer isn't arguing that Laurel isn't a good person (which I know some people here have opinions on), just that she wasn't against killing, and wasn't some beacon of non-violent conflict resolution. I think Felicity is a good person, and she's been in favor of killing (and I think her waffling on that point is due to how Oliver feels about it, not how she feels about it). I think Oliver is a good person, and he's killed. So has Diggle. The article was about the show making Laurel into someone she wasn't - and she wasn't a person who found killing abhorrent. 

Edited by apinknightmare
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

And really, the whole What Would Laurel Do thing kinda makes me think the actual living characters didn't know Laurel at all, for completely mis-remembering her stance on killing.

Spoiler

Imo it's bad writing for THEA to be all "Laurel wouldn't want this", not for Laurel. Because Laurel is dead. Oliver is right about that.



 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)

Oh, i agree, the commenter totally missed the point.  The thing is Arrow pretty much started doing that from the point of death. Not sure if it's because she was a comic character therefore the feel the NEED to canonize her. Or (more likely) even in death Laurel as a character is irrelevant, she's still just a plot device.

However, yeah stuff like this annoys me because i feel like it's cheap and insults my inteligence. Forget everything we've ever written before, this is how you must think of LL from now on!

Edited by Morrigan2575
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

1 minute ago, dtissagirl said:

And really, the whole What Would Laurel Do thing kinda makes me think the actual living characters didn't know Laurel at all, for completely mis-remembering her stance on killing.

  Hide contents

Imo it's bad writing for THEA to be all "Laurel wouldn't want this", not for Laurel. Because Laurel is dead. Oliver is right about that.

 

Plus, Oliver has already

Spoiler

killed the person who was responsible for Laurel's death, so what does it matter what Laurel would want? It's not like he's out vengeance killing in her honor, he's doing it for whatever other reason we don't know about yet, to criminals who are completely unrelated to her demise. So bringing it up at all doesn't make a whole lot of sense. 

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Sakura12

Sakura12

What does Felicity have to do with that article? Or did that commenter just have to bring her up because someone said something about Laurel, which wasn't really negative. They are retconning Laurel to make her seem more important in death, she was an afterthought when she was on the show. Even when she became Because Comics. 

I know I complain about this a lot, is her name really the most important thing? Arrow's Laurel Lance has nothing in common with comic Black Canary besides that. Black Canary never even went by Laurel, it was always Dinah. The Laurel was just to differentiate her from her mother. 

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

I can't breathe from laughing. That tirade/comment was just, yeah, wow. But the article seemed OK and I love bulleted items; I have to admit I totally forgot about Komodo.

I hated giving GATV a click but I had to check because something about Mary Anderson niggled at me. If that writer is the same dude that kept bugging Craig about his poll, then he and Mary had already tangled, probably why she assumed he's a Felicity fan. If it's the same Mary, she had this long rant on GATV about how the shippers never complained about the MTV poll. Again completely missing the point of the discussion. 

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

It's definitely the same chick. She spends all of her time online snooping on what Oliver/Felicity fans are talking about on various social medias, and then she posts 85 paragraph long "reports" on their activities on the R/eddit forum. Cray.

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

11 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

It's definitely the same chick. She spends all of her time online snooping on what Oliver/Felicity fans are talking about on various social medias, and then she posts 85 paragraph long "reports" on their activities on the R/eddit forum. Cray.

Yikes!

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

10 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

It's definitely the same chick. She spends all of her time online snooping on what Oliver/Felicity fans are talking about on various social medias, and then she posts 85 paragraph long "reports" on their activities on the R/eddit forum. Cray.

That's a level of dedication I've never had for anything in my life, bless.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)
28 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

It's definitely the same chick. She spends all of her time online snooping on what Oliver/Felicity fans are talking about on various social medias, and then she posts 85 paragraph long "reports" on their activities on the R/eddit forum. Cray.

Yeah, I recognized her as well.  She posts various places, but her, um...style....is rather unmistakable.

But on the subject of the article....I totally agree.  I wish more critics would call the writers out on this, because it's ridiculous the way they're setting Laurel up as some sort of anti-killing paragon.  Whatever her other strengths or faults, that was not one of them.  She would have cheered Oliver on for killing DD.  The idea that he thought she wouldn't have wanted it was absurd.  I kind of pictured her in a Cordy-like scenario, looking down at Oliver at her grave going, "Are you crazy? Of course I wanted you to kill him.  He killed me!" Lol.

Edited by Starfish35
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calliope1975

calliope1975

Unless Laurel's last words to Oliver are - "Don't kill anyone ever again, Ollie, I've seen the light," before she actually saw the light, it's just more poor characterization of a character TPTB could never get right in life or, apparently, in death. 

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

11 hours ago, dtissagirl said:

And really, the whole What Would Laurel Do thing kinda makes me think the actual living characters didn't know Laurel at all, for completely mis-remembering her stance on killing.

  Hide contents

Imo it's bad writing for THEA to be all "Laurel wouldn't want this", not for Laurel. Because Laurel is dead. Oliver is right about that.



 

Maybe that the remaining characters really didn't know Laurel at all IS the point?  They just take their individual opinion and insert it as the answer to WWLD.  Right now Thea is anti killing so it's what Laurel would do. 

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wonderwall

wonderwall

I feel like all this goes to show that the writers made laurel whatever they wanted her to be all the while trying to convince the audience in their interviews and how other characters thought of her that she was this moral compass/do gooder/the strongest etc. 

Sadly for the writers it didn't work lol

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)
16 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Maybe that the remaining characters really didn't know Laurel at all IS the point?

I doubt it. The problem here is viewer continuity doesn't match with writers continuity. The Laurel in their heads never quite translated to audience.

Plus, with all of the talk about legacy, and how the season is gonna be about each character's individual legacy, it wouldn't fit with the story they wanna tell. From both the writers room's pov, and the characters who are still alive pov, Laurel's legacy is she was the ~*bastion of justice*~ blessing a new generation of masks.
 

Edited by dtissagirl
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Unlike last season, I will not be posting a lot of media reviews after each episode airs this season.  It will depend on the episode. My enthusiasm for S5 of Arrow is just low right now.

Edited by tv echo
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AES13

AES13

I'm grateful for whatever you share with us, tv echo,  so just post the ones you want to (preferably the ones you like and the ones you think are so loathsome you need to vent)!   :)

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looptab

looptab

AV Club review:

Quote

I want to feel more optimistic than I do by the end of “Legacy,” but damn it,Arrow, we’ve been down this road before. There are about three fundamental problems Arrow needs to reckon with coming out of its fourth season, and only one of them—the tediousness of the flashbacks—looks like something the show is actively course-correcting. Much of the episode’s running time does appear to show similar improvements in Oliver and Felicity’s relationship, mostly because, well, the episode doesn’t really acknowledge their former relationship. They are back to being crime-fighting allies and combative friends, both of which suit the show better than a romance that once felt like such a natural outgrowth of the actors’ chemistry but just ended up leaving Felicity dangerously overexposed. I’m not as down on Felicity as a character as most fans are, but I can’t help but groan when the penultimate sequence of the episode ends up being all about Felicity, having Diggle bring up the subject of reunion to a suddenly pensive Oliver and treating the fact that Felicity has a boyfriend as a shocking reveal.

As much as anything else, Arrow just needs to build up some equity with its viewers after a couple meandering seasons. Telling good, solid stories is a start, and “Legacy” does that fairly well. Not immediately giving back into all the show’s worst impulses is another part, and the fact that the premiere did so well for so long in downplaying Oliver and Felicity’s former romance makes the renewed focus on it at the end all the more disappointing. Along similar lines, there’s how the episode treats Oliver, who has abandoned his no-kill rule and spends most of the episode regressing before our very eyes. This is the third basic problem Arrowwould do well to address: the fact that Oliver keeps cycling through the same emotional beats over and over. In theory, his deciding to kill again could be an interesting development for the character, particularly since the show got good mileage in the early going from actually interrogating why a vigilante would choose not to kill, but the show skipped the bit that would actually be interesting. Sure, guilt over Laurel’s death and his hesitation in killing Darhk sooner is a plausible motivation for Oliver to rethink things, but without actually seeing Oliver struggle none of that carries much weight. [...] Serialized character work has never exactly been Arrow’s strength, but all the show really needs to do is find ways for Oliver to work through differentsingle-episode emotional arcs.

 

 

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looptab

looptab

(edited)

What about the penultimate sequence being all about Felicity? God forbid! 

He is not as down on her as other fans, but he groans when there's a scene about her. Of course. 

JC, just be explicit in your dislike, I'd respect you more.

Edited by looptab
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

6 minutes ago, looptab said:

What about the penultimate sequence being all about Felicity? God forbid!

But, you know, when I stop snarking and start thinking about it seriously and thematically for a moment -- Oliver's still in that 5 year journey to become the ultimate hero, that they have tied to the 5 years of flashbacks from day 1. And he's supposed to have the love of the One Woman guiding this path, because that's also what the producers decided from day 1.

This episode told me that they are still writing that exact same story based on that exact same premise. Probably even more so, because they positioned Felicity, and O/F, as a narrative goal for Oliver. [LOL.] Oliver's "I don't know" to Diggle is an anvil. It's Chekhov's "I don't know", actually. You open a season with an "I don't know", and you tell me you're gonna be exploring that all season long*.

* I mean. I bet it's gonna be via 1. Temporary Love Interests and 2. Creative Cockblocking, because this show is dumb, but the set up is right there.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

New EW reviewer gives 501 a grade of B (she also misidentifies Felicity's boyfriend but I give her a pass on that because, unless you read spoilers, it's an easy mistake )...

Arrow premiere recap: 'Legacy'
BY SARA NETZLEY October 5 2016 
http://www.ew.com/recap/arrow-season-5-premiere

Quote

Sadly, the dweller in the depths doesn’t show, but Quentin Lance does, melting my heart. Oliver addresses the crowd, speaking passionately about how Laurel reminds us of the importance of bravery and sacrifice and remembering. Then he reveals an enormous, waterside statue of Laurel-as-Canary. It’s… it’s not good, guys. I mean, it’s not Lucille Ball statue bad, but it’s a little… Soviet mural blocky, somehow.
*  *  *
And then we see the woman in question walk into her sweet pad (actually, Thea’s sweet pad — why’s Fi still living there?), kick off her heels, and accept a back rub from one of the good SCPD cops we saw earlier in the episode. His name is Officer Benton, and he’s apparently allowed to touch her perfect skin and be in her house when she’s not there. I already hate him.
*  *  *
So, hello! I’m Sara, your new Arrow recapper. I’m a huge fan of every superhero show that The CW airs, although I’m a little nervous to be stepping into a show as rich in mythology as this one. I’ll do my best to keep it all straight, but please be patient with me as I get my bearings. If it matters to you, I love Sarah Lance, tolerate Laurel Lance, adore Quentin Lance, ship Olicity, and haven’t seen Batman vs. Superman yet because the DC movie-verse is a big ol’ mess.

Edited by tv echo
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looptab

looptab

(edited)

@dtissagirl

Oh, I agree on that - I was actually mocking the reviewer who found reasons to complain about it. And mind you, he didn't just say, "why the hell there's a boyfriend, why is that treated as a twist", he explicitly said that he groaned because it was all about her. 

Edited by looptab
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

1 minute ago, looptab said:

Oh, I agree on that - I was actually mocking the reviewer who found reasons to complain about it. And mind you, he didn't just say, "why the hell there's a boyfriend, why is that treated as a twist", he explicitly said that he groaned because it was all about her. 

That twenty seconds must've been incredibly difficult for him. 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Arrow Season 5 Premiere Review: Legacy
Mike Cecchini  Oct 5, 2016
http://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/arrow/258888/arrow-season-5-premiere-review-legacy

Quote

Well, if "Legacy" is any indication, the plan is to focus on what made Arrow the foundation that the DC TV Universe was built on in the first place. Keep the spotlight firmly on Oliver Queen, double down on the fact that Oliver Queen has the most experience and history of any of the other superheroes on the small screen, and deliver the finest fight and stunt scenes on TV. Arrow always seemed like an unlikely starting point for what has become a multiverse of superheroes, but it worked, and "Legacy" is a fine reminder of why.

And that's exactly what "Legacy" does. Directed by Arrow stuntmaster James Bamford, "Legacy" is a tight, fun hour of TV. It's colorful without losing site of the show's original "grounded" mission statement, there are no fewer than three stunning hand-to-hand throwdowns (seriously, Netflix's Daredevil gets all the love, but when Arrow is on its game like it is here, it's a contender), and there's some ambitious larger action pieces complete with brand new gadget arrows.
*  *  *
There's a real sense of fun on display in "Legacy," like the show has once again found confidence in its own voice and what it brings to the table. Oliver Queen's multi-season arc from driven vigilante to genuine superhero and now, to a completely different kind of leadership and responsibility, is one of the most interesting we're ever likely to get from a show like this. And really, even on bad days, Arrow's solid cast and action movie aesthetic make it worth tuning in for. Even with Team Arrow in the fractured state season four left them in, everyone is here to lay the groundwork in this episode, and it's remarkably effective about getting all the pieces in place without overbearing exposition. 

Arrow is every bit the superhero show that The Flash, Legends of Tomorrow, and Supergirl are, it's just got more moving pieces and the challenges of its own history to deal with these days. If Arrow is going back to basics, focusing on relatively grounded menaces, introducing a new round of colorful characters to the formula (we meet a couple in this episode), and delivering the kind of eye-popping action that made this show so much fun early on, then "Legacy" is the right way to do it. 

Edited by tv echo
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

3 minutes ago, looptab said:

Oh, I agree on that - I was actually mocking the reviewer who found reasons to complain about it. And mind you, he didn't just say, "why the hell there's a boyfriend, why is that treated as a twist", he explicitly said that he groaned because it was all about her. 

Oh, I know, I wasn't disagreeing with you. :) I quoted you because it gave me the opening to talk about how much bro reviewer is missing the point of NARRATIVE SET UP a season premiere is supposed to be doing.

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looptab

looptab

Just now, dtissagirl said:

Oh, I know, I wasn't disagreeing with you. :) I quoted you because it gave me the opening to talk about how much bro reviewer is missing the point of NARRATIVE SET UP a season premiere is supposed to be doing.

Oh, ok, I thought I had been misunderstood, haha. But yeah - aren't these people supposed to understand and recognize this stuff? 

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tv echo

tv echo

Arrow Review: Old Formula Breathes New Life Into Ollie’s Adventures
BY CRAIG WACK · OCTOBER 6, 2016
http://oohlo.com/2016/10/06/arrow-review-old-formula-breathes-new-life-into-ollies-adventures/

Quote

In the broad scheme of things, this was a by-the-numbers setup episode, but the framework was a callback to the way the show was structured in its first and second seasons (widely considered Arrow‘s strongest). After a couple of years of mystical big bads and pointless flashbacks, the effort to get back to basics was certainly welcome.
*  *  *
Laurel managed to be awful, seemingly from beyond the grave, thanks to a terrible bit of retconning.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

1 minute ago, looptab said:

Oh, ok, I thought I had been misunderstood, haha. But yeah - aren't these people supposed to understand and recognize this stuff? 

Yes, they are. Maybe this reviewer bro either lacks the emotional intelligence to recognize a romance narrative set up, or he doesn't LIKE that the show is setting up a romantic narrative with Felicity as the focal point, so he's trying to undermine it.

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