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The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

Grammaeryn

By Grammaeryn
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tarotx

tarotx

(edited)

If Felicity was the one being killed off would that be Fan service to them? No because it's what they want. What TPTB want isn't fan service. Imo telling the audience the show would be light was closer to fan service for those who want the show to be The Flash with Arrows. 

 

I think 4.15 was an ok episode and 4.16 was a good episode. 4.17 was way too much like the Flash. And 4.08 is the only episode of Arrow I plan to never rewatch. It had Hawk Flashbacks and over the top Olicity angst and a return to Ollie there in the shady sofa scene and of course Time travel and magic. That cross over episode is the worse thing this show has ever done.

 

I personally think having the Flash forward grave scene has just sent this fan base into depression. And then the whole season has been about death instead of the light season everybody thinks we were promised (though our show is still our show should have told people not to assume that lighter meant light). The threats to Laurel, the Felicity hints, the FF Grave, Digging up Sara, bringing her back to life, returning her soul from hell, Ray being dead and then not dead, t he LP raging making both Thea and Sara killers, Thea almost dying because she doesn't want to kill, The stupid time travel causing deaths in the cross over, the gas chamber near deaths, the Felicity's near death at the break and her injury, cupid killing lovers and going after Olicity, all of course all the threats of death this season. especially to Laurel if Quentin didn't do as Damian asked. That's the big one that just had Quentin testify and still no retribution. That has been going on since the 4.1 premiere. 

 

I need to learn how to actually proof read my post-Sorry so messy...

Edited by tarotx
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Morrigan2575
Morrigan2575

I always find it odd when people blame the writing for LLs failure. I'll give them that for Lauiver because of the whole cheating thing but, let's be honest if SA/KC had the chemistry that SA/EBR had,

lemotomato
lemotomato

Sorry, that argument rings really hollow when the show has had a history of killing off/mistreating other female characters without a peep of protest from those same "concerned" people. Moira Queen, S

ComicFan777
ComicFan777

I know that this is supposed to be Felicity's dark arc, but...Felicity desperately doing whatever she can to save people (damn the consequences down the road) doesn't make me think that she's losing w

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tarotx

tarotx

(edited)

I personally can believe that Killing Sara was fan service. She made a better black Canary than Laurel does imo. But that's not the case really. They knew they were killing Sara off from the beginning. I even knew they would kill Sara off (and I wasn't spoiled). They kill people to push along hero journeys. They did get me with not killing her off until the season 3 premiere though. 

Edited by tarotx
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Password

Password

The show has only actually devoted 3 episodes out of 17 to Oliver and Felicity. 4.06, 4.08 and 4.16. I don't count episode 15 because the ending was pathetic.

Otherwise they've been a happy, angst free, soap opera free couple.

My issue with Oliver and Laurel isn't their past (although it gets worse every season). It's their interaction NOW. Oliver acts like Laurel is an annoyance and Laurel never listens to Oliver. Where is the OTP foundation there? Laurel spoke to Oliver last episode and beautifully pointed out that he's the idiot who broke his relationship up with his lies. They seem to forever be talking about FELICITY, not themselves.

It's beyond me.

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doesntworkonwood

doesntworkonwood

I don't consider it fan service if it's a major storyline. If it's something that's a joke, like the Olicity mention or boxing glove arrow, it's fan service. If it's an unnecessary shirtless scene that's fanservice. Otherwise, I don't think it counts. 

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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

I definitely do agree with the unnecessary shirtless scenes being fanservice.  Galavant even dedicated a song to it.

 

 

^^^This. If they think that Olicity fans wanted this, then they're just as delusional as they look. Nobody asked for this. Even here, literally pages and pages of posts have expressed loathing towards the BMD storyline. That right there should disprove the whole pandering to fans argument.

It doesn't necessarily disprove fanservice though, it could just show that they got it wrong.  (Personally I blame poor writing. I know they were going to split up Oliver and Felicity this season, I just wish they had done it in a way that didn't make them look like fools.)

Edited by statsgirl
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

I don't consider it fan service if it's a major storyline. If it's something that's a joke, like the Olicity mention or boxing glove arrow, it's fan service. If it's an unnecessary shirtless scene that's fanservice. Otherwise, I don't think it counts. 

 

Agreed. It's what the term means, even -- something that happens momentarily exclusively to please fans. Boxing glove arrow, gratuitous nudity, naming every Star City street after comic book writers, all of the superhero establishing shots, the superhero power walks, "Olicity" showing up in the fake news, etc. If it's anything longterm, that demands plotting over several episodes, it's not fanservice anymore -- it's just story.

Edited by dtissagirl
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

I'm always more amused by the fact that I cannot remember the last time I stuck with a show that I didn't feel was pandering to me personally to extreme levels of catering to my needs. Like, the *second* I realize my 'ship is not happening, or my fave character is getting offed, I bail.

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doesntworkonwood

doesntworkonwood

I'm always more amused by the fact that I cannot remember the last time I stuck with a show that I didn't feel was pandering to me personally to extreme levels of catering to my needs. Like, the *second* I realize my 'ship is not happening, or my fave character is getting offed, I bail.

And likewise, if I know it's going to happen or I know there's no way they're going to die, I will stick with the show, no matter how long it takes. 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

L.A. Times critic speculates on who's in the grave - he considers Curtis, Donna and Laurel to be long shots; instead, he believes the better bets are Quentin and Thea, and finally puts the bullseye on Diggle (no spoilers)...

 

Who's in the box? Gambling odds on which 'Arrow' character buys the farm this week
By James Queally   APRIL 5, 2016, 11:21 AM
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/herocomplex/la-et-hc-arrow-whos-gonna-die-preview-20160401-snap-htmlstory.html

Laurel Lance -- If the CW left this up to the fans, as DC once did with Jason Todd in the infamous Batman “Death in the Family” arc, Laurel would be a near-lock to shuffle off this mortal coil. While she’s a marvelous character in most incarnations, the TV version of Black Canary was given a lot of grief by a large chunk of the Arrow fanbase. In fairness, her introduction was pretty rough, but Laurel has enjoyed a slight resurgence in recent weeks, especially during her courtroom clash with Damien Darhk’s legal team. Laurel has never been a particular target of Darhk or Merlyn, so I’m struggling to see why either villain would choose to take her off the board outside of the sheer chaos of a larger brawl.

Fan apathy toward Laurel would also make her an odd choice for what we presume to be such a pivotal moment in the season and series.

Grief factor: Wild shot

Mortality odds: 100 to 1
*  *  *
Quentin Lance --  If the police captain’s season-long redemption arc were to end with him occupying a pine box, that would certainly register on the emotional Richter scale. Quentin put himself squarely in Darhk’s sights two episodes ago, atoning for his complicity in Darhk’s rise to power by providing the testimony that sent Darhk to Iron Heights (which is apparently more of a revolving door than Arkham Asylum). Darhk is more than likely busting out of prison during “Eleven Fifty-Nine,” and that could very well spell doom for Quentin. Capt. Lance has suffered several personal and professional haymakers over the course of the series, and to see him die in the midst of his blooming romance with Donna would truly hurt. ...

Grief factor: Four arrows to the gut

Mortality odds: 10 to 1
*  *  *
John Diggle -- It hurts me to type this, but David Ramsey is dead as disco, nearly a lock to join Moira Queen and Tommy Merlyn in that big Arrow Cave in the sky. One could dismiss the trailer’s intense focus on Diggle as a red herring, but the potentially overwhelming hurt that would be caused by his death is too hard to ignore. ...

But before we get to the narrative logic of a Diggle death, let’s just look at this from an emotional perspective. Diggle is the only character as universally adored as Felicity, probably the only character whose death would force me to wipe my eyes and wonder if the room is getting dusty. He’s been a critical component since Day One, serving as a best friend, advisor, sidekick and warrior in Oliver’s crusade. ... His stable family life with Lydia and Sara is a holy grail most of the other Team Arrow members can only hope for, and that means he has the most to lose.

From a narrative standpoint, Diggle is one of the few people whose death would cause Oliver to kill again. ...

If this season’s narrative mission is to cause Oliver’s character to suffer a fundamental shift, one that sees him at least entertain his deadlier, loner vigilante ways, then there is simply no better way to accomplish that than killing the original partner in his crusade.

Grief factor: Full quiver to the heart

Mortality odds: 2 to 1

Edited by tv echo
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wonderwall

wonderwall

L.A. Times reviewer speculates on who's in the grave - he considers Curtis, Donna and Laurel to be long shots; instead, he believes the better bets are Quentin and Thea, and finally puts the bullseye on Diggle (no spoilers)...

 

Who's in the box? Gambling odds on which 'Arrow' character buys the farm this week

By James Queally   APRIL 5, 2016, 11:21 AM

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/herocomplex/la-et-hc-arrow-whos-gonna-die-preview-20160401-snap-htmlstory.html

Which is strange... Because the guy went to the screening... 

 

LOL he's trying to misdirect

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

so seeing one of the regular cast members working outside of that core group feels like a distraction.

 

This was in the review a page back about Felicity.  So Felicity is off the team for one episode so far and she isn't working on the show named Arrow but Laurel having her own storylines for nearly three years (Four if you count the Sara arc) but that's fine and hey, Ollie and Laurel should get back together.  Sigh.  I wonder who they think they are fooling. 

 

 

 

 

The shirtless scenes on the salmon ladder. Mmm lol I was one of those that loved that tire scene with him and Felicity and she wasn't staring and he knew and thought something was wrong. oh and 3x20.

When I was watching the workout montage on BvS all I know is that regular pull ups just don't impress me anymore. 

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

This was in the review a page back about Felicity.  So Felicity is off the team for one episode so far and she isn't working on the show named Arrow but Laurel having her own storylines for nearly three years (Four if you count the Sara arc) but that's fine and hey, Ollie and Laurel should get back together.  Sigh.  I wonder who they think they are fooling. 

That was such a dumb review. She complained about ONE EPISODE being devoted to the fallout from the breakup of the PROTAGONIST'S very serious, committed romantic relationship. Really dumb. 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Interesting perspective (but I don't agree with everything said) - right now, the poll results are evenly split (50-50)...

 

'Arrow' Poll: Can Curtis Really Replace Felicity on Team Arrow?
Tuesday, April 05, 2016  Derek Stauffer
http://www.buddytv.com/articles/arrow/arrow-can-curtis-really-replac-59492.aspx

Curtis is more than just a male Felicity however. Felicity's character arc has been the story of a woman trying to reconcile her identity. Felicity doesn't have as traumatic of a past as Oliver but she does have nearly as big of an identity crisis. In 4 seasons Felicity has struggled to balance the Goth, hacker anarchist of her past with the over-qualified timid IT girl of her present. She has finally managed to find that balance but it took a while. Curtis is not dealing with that kind of struggle, but doesn't mean that Curtis isn't interesting. In fact, Curtis' contentment is what makes him an exciting character for Arrow.
 

Curtis is so comfortable in his own skin that he is a breath of fresh air compared to the rest of Team Arrow. All of the heroes are on these long journeys to self-discovery and Curtis has already found himself. He has a great job, he is in a stable, married, relationship and is overall just a genuinely happy person. Curtis could inject a new energy into Team Arrow that might prove invaluable in season 5. Felicity was Oliver's pillar of happiness and light in his darkest times, Curtis could be that for all of Team Arrow just by virtue of his personality.
*  *  *
There is obviously something that Felicity can provide that Curtis cannot and that is the love interest angle. Curtis is not going to be hooking up with any of the members of Team Arrow because a) he is gay and b) he is already married. Curtis is not going to be flirting with any of the costumed heroes on Team Arrow or sharing any longing glances, at least none that will be reciprocated. It has already been established that Curtis has a harmless and not-so-secret crush on Oliver. While this in theory limits the type of stories than can be told with Curtis, it's far from a bad thing.
*  *  *
Arrow season 3 got too wrapped up in the love interest story and forgot to tell a compelling narrative around Oliver and Felicity's angst. Season 4 though has managed to balance both parts of Arrow. Season 4 has made romance more just a regular part of the character's lives more than the sole focus, it might be nice to separate things. No one believes that Felicity and Oliver are broken up forever. When they do get back together, Arrow could keep the personal and professional lives of the characters separate. Felicity can still interact with the rest of the team but it doesn't need to be in costume.
 

In other words, Felicity can be Oliver's real wife while Curtis can be his "work wife" who he shares no mutual attraction or feelings for at all. Curtis could be the way that Oliver separates his Green Arrow persona and mission from his personal life and lead to him actually being happy for once. He can be the Green Arrow and still have that domestic bliss he had with Felicity in the very beginning of season 4.
*  *  *
Curtis might be filling in for Felicity's Overwatch duties he does have a superhero identity of his own to develop. When it was first announced that Echo Kellum would be joining season 4 of Arrow, it was mentioned that he would be playing Curtis the man who eventually becomes the hero Mr. Terrific. Mr. Terrific might be the laziest superhero name and design of all time. (His outfit involves a T slapped onto his face.) Mr. Terrific is still a hero with a reasonably long history and he is not just brain.
*  *  *
Felicity might be a "bad-ass" but her strong suit is never going to be in the field. Felicity is the eye in the sky and the brains. While Curtis is undoubtedly just as smart as Felicity, he doesn't need to be just as immobile as Felicity. Curtis could do something that Felicity never considered and be more of active part of Team Arrow.

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

'Arrow' Poll: Will Felicity Make a Good CEO?
Wednesday, April 06, 2016  Derek Stauffer
http://www.buddytv.com/articles/arrow/arrow-will-felicity-make-a-goo-59503.aspx

In the world of Arrow it doesn't really matter though if you're qualified or have the experience for a job. Thea went from the youngest bar owner ever to an accomplished assassin in training in the course of a long summer. Laurel went from getting beat up by common street thugs to taking on several members of the League of Assassins after a week spent with Nyssa Al Ghul. The CW's Arrow doesn't let facts and logic get in the way of telling a good story and there are plenty of good stories to be told with Felicity as the CEO of Palmer Tech.
*  *  *
Felicity is unique in her position at Palmer Tech. She has an opportunity to help people in a way that no other member of Team Arrow can. Yes, Laurel works in the DA's office but she doesn't have nearly as many resources as Felicity. Felicity as the head of Palmer Tech can help people without having to wear a mask. Palmer Tech can be more than just the justification for the amount of money Team Arrow has at their disposable. Felicity and Palmer Tech can be just as important and active in the mission to help people as Green Arrow and crew.
*  *  *
Felicity's job at Palmer Tech and her position on Team Arrow might not be mutually exclusive. She has technically been doing both for the majority of season 4. It is time though that the balance and focus shifts. Felicity's major goal should be trying to run and build the most successful company that she can. If Felicity truly is the female lead of Arrow, she could be given a storyline that is completely her own and equally important to Oliver's mission as the Green Arrow.
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kismet

kismet

If they really want to do a CEO plotline, I really wish they would just rename it Smoak Industries instead or have her start her own company. Frankly, I'm tired of hearing about Palmer Tech when there is no more Palmer on the show. And hopefully Palmer will remain off the show.

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Genki

Genki

If they really want to do a CEO plotline, I really wish they would just rename it Smoak Industries instead or have her start her own company. Frankly, I'm tired of hearing about Palmer Tech when there is no more Palmer on the show. And hopefully Palmer will remain off the show.

Agree I was wondering if they are waiting for Olicity wedding to change name to Queen Inc. (shown in The Flash news paper in S1) or is that off the table after too much time-travel hi-jinx?

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

http://www.tvinsider.com/article/84025/arrow-cast-producers-on-the-shows-emotional-death/?utm_source=&utm_medium=tvi

The move might be particularly rough for fans of the source material to swallow, given the history between Black Canary and Green Arrow. “We recognize that that upsets a lot of fans, particularly the comic book fans,” Guggenheim said. “In the comics, Dinah Lance and Oliver Queen, depending on which version of the character you like, are in a romance together, in various iterations. That, to some people, is considered canonical and iconic, and we respect that. But at the same time, we’ve always made no bones about the fact that we are telling our own version of the Green Arrow mythos. The Green Arrow has had so many different interpretations, and Black Canary has had so many different interpretations, over the years, that we never felt beholden to one particular interpretation.”

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statsgirl

statsgirl

MG adding fuel to the fire

 

Arrow Boss Clears the Air on

's 'Vicious' Death and Star's Reaction, Braces for 'Rather Loud' Fan Response

 

TVLINE | What were the arguments for and against the death being Laurel?
The argument against it was the fact that we all love Katie. We love working with Katie, we love having her on the show. We love the fact that she plays Black Canary. [Another reason is] quite frankly the fact that there would be some corners of the Internet who in a season where Oliver got engaged to Felicity would interpret this as us choosing a side in the “shipper wars.” With respect to that last point, we felt like we had told the Oliver/Laurel love story in Season 1, and we had no intention of getting them back together. We never felt like we had to kill off Laurel to put an end to that story.

 

TVLINE | Right, and you did give them some really nice callbacks this season. They had some talks that they needed to have.

I think so, too. A lot of those talks were written before we even made the decision [to kill Laurel]. When we went into the season, we really went in with an eye towards repairing the Oliver/Laurel relationship and moving them into a “friend” place — and a “good friend” place. ArrowThose little moments weren’t to lay the foundation for a death we didn’t know was coming. Rather, as with the beginning of any season, we start off with a list of things we want to accomplish, and one of those things was to move Oliver and Laurel to a new, more healthy place. I was very glad we got a chance to do that. The scenes were very, very effective.

 

and

Arrow Star Hails 'Shock Value' of

's Death, Says Emotional Goodbye Scene Was 'So Real'

 

“In the future, you never know what can happen,” Cassidy admitted. “As they know, I’m always happy to come play with them if they time travel and whatnot.”

As for Laurel’s legacy, it’s “definitely important” to the actress that her character be remembered as someone who “was always such a good person and had such a good heart and was a fighter.”

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Chaser

Chaser

She found out during the filming of 4x16 then right? Does anyone remember when that was offhand? I'm curious if it was during the HVFF weekend when she posted that quote.

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Chaser

Chaser

Quoted posted 1/25.

 

I wonder if they really did let KC have her head canon because that interview with EBR (where she talked about Oliver being the love of Laurel's life) was posted 2/01, but filmed weeks prior. 

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

(edited)
A lot of those talks were written before we even made the decision [to kill Laurel]. When we went into the season, we really went in with an eye towards repairing the Oliver/Laurel relationship and moving them into a “friend” place — and a “good friend” place. [...]as with the beginning of any season, we start off with a list of things we want to accomplish, and one of those things was to move Oliver and Laurel to a new, more healthy place. I was very glad we got a chance to do that. The scenes were very, very effective.

 

I thought those were all good decisions too, so then...why...did you just throw that all in the garbage and have their final scene together be about how Oliver was the love of Laurel's life and she's carried around that damn picture of herself for four years? Ugh, MG, never fails to make things worse even when he tries to fix them.

Edited by Carrie Ann
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Chaser

Chaser

(edited)

I thought those were all good decisions too, so then...why...did you just throw that all in the garbage and have their final scene together be about how Oliver was the love of Laurel's life and she's carried around that damn picture of herself for four years? Ugh, MG, never fails to make things worse even when he tries to fix them.

What I find really funny about that quote, is that one of the reasons all the Oliver and Laurel scenes felt off is because their friendship never felt real to me.

 

They talked more in the past two episodes then they did all season. 

Edited by Chaser
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

Yep. She said she found out right before they filmed the court scenes. I've beem trying to find those pictured to get the dates.

I remember commenting in one of the threads that she was overly emotional during the court scene and must have gotten the news then.

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lemotomato

lemotomato

Question: Do you think KC really means it when she says that she's up for coming back to the show if they ask? I know that she has to say something like that, for diplomacy sake, but really? After such a lousy death scene? I feel like one of the reasons Susanna Thompson refused to come back to guest star was because she didn't agree with how Moira got killed off.

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Chaser

Chaser

I think all the interviews sound like PR.

 

We love KC and we love the BC. We are one big happy family. Death is permanent permanent, but hey time travel and alternative worlds so there's that.

 

It's like a checklist.

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bijoux

bijoux

So we won't find out Oliver's promise to Laurel until s5?

 

Maybe it's when next year's mirakuru/totem rolls around that we find out that it's for Oliver to share crucial  information stat, so that the team can get on it. If it turns out to be this and Oliver actually, you know, listens to Laurel for once, it would be her biggest contribution to the team and the show.

 

She agreed to play Laurel in the Vixen s2 and to be the Black Siren on The Flash so yeah, i think she would come back.

 

The CW has been her home.

 

Agreed.

 

In hindsight, Moira's death was ten times better.

Frankly, while I never liked that Moira died, I always thought she went out like the BAMF that she was. Plus, she was always about protecting her family and she gave her life to do it, so it fit her.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

Question: Do you think KC really means it when she says that she's up for coming back to the show if they ask? I know that she has to say something like that, for diplomacy sake, but really? After such a lousy death scene? I feel like one of the reasons Susanna Thompson refused to come back to guest star was because she didn't agree with how Moira got killed off.

 

I got the impression from these interviews that KC was at the screening in LA? If so [someone please correct me if I'm wrong? I've been awake for a REALLY long time], she was giving these answers in front of the producers, so she would be on her best behavior.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I got the impression from these interviews that KC was at the screening in LA? If so [someone please correct me if I'm wrong? I've been awake for a REALLY long time], she was giving these answers in front of the producers, so she would be on her best behavior.

 

Yeah, based on the Variety interview, it seems like she was present. And it seems like Paul Blackthorne was, too.

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