Kim Richards: No Escape from Witch Mountain

[BlackMamba]

My first thought would be LisaR, just because she is the one who said at the reunion: "Who is Kathy? is Kathy God?"

Revenge is best served cold so I am thinking that Kathy is now just dishing it up, Kathy is so delusional that she thinks that this will have any effect on the viewers' perception but is nothing but a joke. After that interview with Dr. Phil (which she orchestrated) there is absolutely nothing that any RHBH Brandi included, can say that is worse than what Chad said, Kim still drinks, smokes pot, probably does coke (who do this ...I am assuming a hand gesture to his nose) and also takes pain killers. All this coming from the mouth of her own child.

Kathy is probably feeling guilty because this interview backfired so horribly and is now warning one and all RHBH to shut it up about Kim, too late Kathy, thanks to Kim herself now we know what kind of awful human being she is and the addictions she battles.

Agreed.

Oh that Kathy Hilton is under a lot of stress. Didnt her golden child violate his probation recently smoking weed. Now she has to protect Kim because Kyle has stepped down or at least taken break. So now let's do the 8th grade alpha girl move and start pointing the fingers at everyone but Kim who is the addict that keeps effing up. Now Im starting to see why Kathy and Kim are so close. They dont like taking responsibility or accountability for anything for the mess theyve brought on themselves. These two are ridiculous.

[Almost 3000]

Honestly? I don't know. It's just that saying. Doing one thing to our face, and doing another behind our back. It's wrong. I don't use the "N" word. "Forked tongue" is basically the same to us. Two faced is much more acceptable. In my opinion anyway. I hope that helps. I'm not trying to be argumentative but, it invokes a "oh hell no" when I hear it.

It's just a "thing" though. Grown ups know how to deal and choose better words to express ourselves. I'm not an expert on this. I get shunned for having blue eyes. So....

Thank you. I know its not to be used but its confusing because the NA seems to not be the bad guy in the saying. Possibly that has changed though as we've reevaluated the historical meaning and at one time it was. Hopefully I'm making sense.

[zoeysmom]

I agree - I think it's Lisa V.  No one, not even her greatest friends, would describe Brandi as "lovely."  

 

Look, I'm sure the Richards sisters think that Lisa V. betrayed them by making that comment about Kim.  And there's a time, maybe, I would have thought "Eh, Lisa, that's a little shady."  Because Lady Vanderpump could teach a master class in Shade.  

 

But no longer.  My attitude now is that all the women have a total right to be fed up with Kim, and to say and do whatever they want to do.  I think they have all been muzzled for years, because of Kyle's begging, to keep Kim's bad behavior under wraps.  They were "loyal" and "good friends" and only occasionally - like Taylor at the S1 reunion, saying to Kim "do you want to talk about your state of mind at the table that night?" - did they allude to the truth.  

 

But imagine it.  You've had a job for six years.  One co-worker is constantly late.  They're temperamental and "ornery."  They consistently lie.  They hold you up for hours and hours because they don't show up for work; when they do show up, they're hard to work with.  You're forced to cover up for them with the public, primarily because their sister begs you to do so.  If you ever dare to even hint at your real feelings (like Lisa V in Paris), you're pummeled.  By the fifth year, the woman becomes combative and vicious and attacks either you or your other coworkers.

 

And you're still supposed to support her?  You're still supposed to pretend it's all fine?  You're still supposed to cover for her and advocate for her to keep her job?

 

Even after the last reunion, when Lisa Rinna let out her emotions and anger about Kim on twitter, Kyle chastised her and got an apology.  And now Lisa Vanderpump makes an extremely benign statement about "move on if this isn't a healthy environment" and gets shunned by the Good Sister Kathy.

 

Nope.  And I think, frankly, it's incredibly nervy of both Kyle and Kathy to be demanding that sort of silence and tacit support from their cast members.  In fact, I might suggest it's one of the reasons Kim thinks she can behave so badly and get away with it: because for twenty years, her sisters have been following along behind her, cleaning up after her and pretending there was never a mess in the first place.  

 

The airplane a-hole son of Kathy said the same thing on the plane, when he was acting out - promising that his father would pay out hundreds of thousands of dollars to get him out of trouble, that he'd done it before.  That's what the Richards strategy is, apparently: purchase silence or demand loyalty.

 

Enough.  I desperately hope Kim doesn't return next year - it's played out and smothers everything else, just like addiction does to a real family, it sucks the oxygen out of every other storyline - but if she MUST come back, I hope it's with a condition:  everyone will tell the truth about her, all the time.  No more free passes for the witch.

A great post.  Kyle has said nothing about anyone weighing in on Kim post arrest.  It is pure Kathy Hilton.  They are sisters but I do believe they have very different views on the whole Kim mess.  Awhile back I posted a video from Paris' show of she and her mom having a conversation about a drug using Brooke Mueller.  Paris did not want to be associated with her drug behavior and Kathy seems to think it is role in life to rescue and even took a little swipe at Paris and not always being proud of her behavior.  I see Kathy treating Kim the same way-look at me help my addict sister-it just seems Kathy want to put it front and center something Kyle had zero to do with this time around.

 

I never saw Kyle demand her castmates stay silent.  Lisa Rinna's comments prior to the arrest and admission on Twitter about Kim were harsh and unlike Kim condoning Brandi wholesale slaughter of Kyle, Kyle let Lisa R know it really wasn't okay to go after her family member.  This year she seemed to let Lisar talk and talk without saying anything in response to her speculation and observations about Kim.  Again there is a certain cluelessness Kyle seems to employ because she was torched Season 1 for bringing up the obvious.

[MissMel]

Thank you. I know its not to be used but its confusing because the NA seems to not be the bad guy in the saying. Possibly that has changed though as we've reevaluated the historical meaning and at one time it was. Hopefully I'm making sense.

You are making sense. The Native isn't the bad guy. It's the connotation that is wrong. Nobody likes a liar and thief. A forked tongue is just that. A liar and thief.

It doesn't apply here, though. These women get paid to lie. Their tongues are not forked. So to speak.

[BlackMamba]

Lisa V is now messing with that because she has stated that if the show is too stressful for KIm then maybe she shouldn't come back , this is just common sense but Kathy is not about to let common sense interfere with her social schedule. No way no how.

Oh I love the way you put that together because it's the truth.

Kathy has a regular travel and social schedule to up hold here. There is no way in the world she wants that to be interrupted or ruined by the likes of Kim's addiction and her possibly being unemployed. Kathy thinks by starting drama behind-the-scenes by tweeting shes doing something "cute" or "smart". Most viewers like or love LVP. So her having a war with LVP isn't a good look for Kathy nor Kim because people see through what they playing up.

I said once Kyle does the grunt work when it comes to Kim being the nursemaid. She takes the emotional bruises and beatings from Kim. When Kathy arrives back from her her glamor trips around the world Kathy is there to pat Kim on the head and tell her everything is going to be all right. Thats as much Kathy might do or use to before Kingsley took a bite out Alexia's hand and Kyle has gone into semi retirement. Now poor Kathy has deal with both Kim and Conrad addiction/behavioral problems. Life is so hard now!

Edited May 11, 2015 by BlackMamba

[zoeysmom]

Oh I love the way you put that together because it's the truth.

Kathy has a regular travel and social schedule to upon here. There is no way in the world she wants that to be interrupted or ruined by the likes of Kim's addiction and her possibly being unemployed. Kathy thinks by starting drama behind-the-scenes by tweeting shes doing something "cute" or "smart". Most viewers like or love LVP. So her having a war with LVP isn't a good look for Kathy nor Kim because people see through what they playing up.

I said once Kyle does the grunt work when it comes to Kim being the nursemaid. She takes the emotional bruises and beatings from Kim. When Kathy arrives back from her her glamor trips around the world Kathy is there to pat Kim on the head and tell her everything is going to be all right. Thats as much Kathy might do or use to before Kingsley took a bite out Alexia's hand and Kyle has gone into semi retirement. Now poor Kathy has deal with both Kim and Conrad addiction/behavioral problems. Life is so hard now!

Like you said Kathy's social schedule will always reign supreme.  I think her focus will be on the big July wedding in England.  I wonder how much help Kim will be with the wedding planning?  It would seem after being an integral part of two weddings this past year Kim would be invaluable.

[motorcitymom65]

Am I wrong in thinking that we've heard comments in the past about Ken and Lisa going to dinner and stuff with Kathy and Rick and that they have a friendship that isn't dependent on Kyle? I swear comments had been made in the past to give me that impression but now I'm not sure.

Correct. It was during the episode when Yo hosted something at an Art Gallery, I believe in S3. Ken and Lisa said they had to dash because they were meeting Rick and Kathy for dinner. She mentioned in her TD or in her blog that they had been friends with them for years. This makes the fact that Kathy stopped following Lisa on Twitter that much more interesting. Edited May 11, 2015 by motorcitymom65

[WireWrap]

Am I wrong in thinking that we've heard comments in the past about Ken and Lisa going to dinner and stuff with Kathy and Rick and that they have a friendship that isn't dependent on Kyle? I swear comments had been made in the past to give me that impression but now I'm not sure. 

 

I agree that it does seem like it's Lisa and I find that surprising because I don't think that LisaV has been out of line at all wrt Kim. Curious that Kathy wants to try to shift some of the blame for Kim's issues in connection with the show. 

LisaV had the audacity to repeat and agree with DP, the AUDACITY I TELL YOU! lol Right now, Kathy is looking to keep Kim's job and to do that she needs to start a war with 1 of the HW's currently on the show and I think Kim is still protecting Brandi so that leaves the only other HW to say anything since the arrest/DP show...LisaV.

[Roxy]

I agree with all of you. I thought that was about LVP immediately due to the "lovely" comment. I thought LVP's quotes were spot on and not mean spirited at all. They were just true. I also wondered if she was making the argument for Bravo as they can't really say anything without looking bad. I think LVP is bullet proof in terms of rep with the fans. I kind of figured she was there giving Bravo the out with Kim. I have no doubt Kim is being dumped. But I've been surprised before.

 

I also think Brandi was the focus of the other tweet. She's the only one talking and she can't shut up. She can't get coverage without talking about Kim's problems and it is obvious she's not supporting- she's using. And has been this whole time. She's too much. It's unseemly at this point. I think she's out, too, but, again, who knows. 

[Almost 3000]

So Kathy Hilton was OK with LV hinting at marital indiscretions in Kyle's marriage and also questioning Mauricio's business but questioning Kim's health and ability to continue on the franchise is a deal breaker. Good to know.

[goofygirl]

Saint Kathy's about to get run over by a bus, I tell ya! A big, old BUS!

[Avaleigh]

If the negative connotation of FT is with the government why is it a NA slur? I guess that's what has always confused me. Thank you in advance for explaining this to me.

 

Thank you. I know its not to be used but its confusing because the NA seems to not be the bad guy in the saying. Possibly that has changed though as we've reevaluated the historical meaning and at one time it was. Hopefully I'm making sense.

Trying to understand this makes me feel like I'm stupid. 

 

Is the idea that NA don't want to be reminded of their history of having to deal with a two faced and duplicitous government? I'm trying to understand how the slur is hurtful or harmful from the perspective of Native Americans when they aren't considered to be the ones with the forked tongues. 

 

You are making sense. The Native isn't the bad guy. It's the connotation that is wrong. Nobody likes a liar and thief. A forked tongue is just that. A liar and thief.

It doesn't apply here, though. These women get paid to lie. Their tongues are not forked. So to speak.

Anyone can potentially be two faced or a thief and a liar. The fact that the NA aren't the ones who the slur is being used on is totally confusing because when I compare it to the other big slurs those are directed towards specific groups whereas forked tongue can be applied broadly. If somebody calls me a liar and a thief and I'm not then those are already going to be fighting words. (Not that I fight lol but you know what I mean.)

 

Plus I'm looking at the context. One privileged caucasian woman insulting the nature of another privileged caucasian woman and race isn't playing into it at all. The comment was all about the perceived behavior of another. Kathy certainly wasn't attempting to imitate anyone or do her impression of a NA. It wasn't nice at all but to me it didn't come across as any more offensive than Kim calling Eileen a beast. They're rude and entitled bitches and this is the level they work on but I think Kathy would be legitimately shocked to know that the comment is being taken as a slur. Slurs like Indian Giver though--I totally get that. 

 

The things we learn watching RH shows. There could be a thread just about that. Like in the style of everything you need to know you learned in kindergarten. 

[BlackMamba]

I agree with all of you. I thought that was about LVP immediately due to the "lovely" comment. I thought LVP's quotes were spot on and not mean spirited at all. They were just true. I also wondered if she was making the argument for Bravo as they can't really say anything without looking bad. I think LVP is bullet proof in terms of rep with the fans. I kind of figured she was there giving Bravo the out with Kim. I have no doubt Kim is being dumped. But I've been surprised before.

I think Kathy, like many, believes LVP has more pull when shes vocals her opinion on the wives in this franchise. Which in a way she does. LVP echoes alot what many viewers believe when it comes to Kim at this point. The early seasons she didnt out of respect to Kyle but Kathy nada! Lisa V isnt about to play Kathy Hilton's game about keeping her mouth closed even if she wasnt being malicious! That must piss off Kathy so much.

Plus I wonder did Kathy and Lisa V have a falling out right after TMZ ran their story that Kim was blaming everyone days after her arrest. That could be why Kathy and LVP are not good terms too. Lisa V has been down this road with Kim especially with the Paris trip. She didnt want to dragged into Kim's f**kedness again.

This just sucks for Kyle though. She just got her friendship back with LVP and now Kathy/Kim are ruining it again with their petty garbage with Lisa V. I hope Kyle isnt one bit part of this and LVP knows this is Kathy and Kim's doing.

Edited May 11, 2015 by BlackMamba

[mbutterfly]

It is a Native American expression. It does refer to the government lying to us. Being two faced is a better description. Having a forked tongue is not.

A person probably shouldn't throw out "forked tongue". Two faced is accepted. Forked tongue carries a lot of weight. To keep it simple, those are fighting words.

You are probably correct about the history of the expression though I had thought it was a Hollywood-ized attribute, not actually Native. I'm against being offensive. Still, it is unfortunate that such an apt expression not be free to be used. That said, are we certain Kyle will be angry with LisaV? I could see her going either way on that, and I hope she supports LisaV's statement because it is potentially helpful to Kyle. 

[WireWrap]

I think Kathy, like many, believes LVP has more pull when shes vocals her opinion on the wives in this franchise. Which in a way she does. LVP echoes alot what many viewers believe when it comes to Kim at this point. The early seasons she didnt out of respect to Kyle but Kathy nada! Lisa V isnt about to play Kathy Hilton's game about keeping her mouth closed even if she wasnt being malicious! That must piss off Kathy so much.

Plus I wonder did Kathy and Lisa V have a falling out right after TMZ ran their story that Kim was blaming everyone days after her arrest. That could be why Kathy and LVP are not good terms too. Lisa V has been down this road with Kim especially with the Paris trip. She didnt want to dragged into Kim's f**kedness again.

This just sucks for Kyle though. She just got her friendship back with LVP and now Kathy/Kim are ruining it again with their petty garbage with Lisa V. I hope Kyle isnt one bit part of this and LVP knows this is Kathy and Kim's doing.

I think LisaV is smart enough to realize this came from Kathy/Kim and not Kyle. She has seen the "damaged duo" do their work on Kyle for years and I am sure she will give Kyle the benefit of doubt and/or talk to her 1 on 1.

Edited May 11, 2015 by WireWrap

[BlackMamba]

I just keep thinking of what Kyle alluded to with Kim/Kathy and them being attached to the hip and she tends to be left out of that connection when she said it in her TH once. Makes me believe Kyle might not cosign to a lot of what Kim/Kathy do and say. Kyle even said she and Kathy dont have the greatest relationship on her last WWHL appearance. And her teary tyrant in Amsterdam on the bus and Lisa V told Eileen and Lisa R, "I know. When shes not responsible for Kim the family comes down on her." Uhhuh. Kathy just looks like the type that if you dont follow her orders she will bite your head off and considering Kyle is the baby sister she must have done that often.

Kathy must believe shes the HBIC. It's no wonder most of her children, all but one, has rebelled against her at some point by getting arrested, drugs and doing a leak sex tape.

Edited May 11, 2015 by BlackMamba

[Roxy]

I think Kathy, like many, believes LVP has more pull when shes vocals her opinion on the wives in this franchise. Which in a way she does. LVP echoes alot what many viewers believe when it comes to Kim at this point. The early seasons she didnt out of respect to Kyle but Kathy nada! Lisa V isnt about to play Kathy Hilton's game about keeping her mouth closed even if she wasnt being malicious! That must piss off Kathy so much.

Plus I wonder did Kathy and Lisa V have a falling out right after TMZ ran their story that Kim was blaming everyone days after her arrest. That could be why Kathy and LVP are not good terms too. Lisa V has been down this road with Kim especially with the Paris trip. She didnt want to dragged into Kim's f**kedness again.

This just sucks for Kyle though. She just got her friendship back with LVP and now Kathy/Kim are ruining it again with their petty garbage with Lisa V. I hope Kyle isnt one bit part of this and LVP knows this is Kathy and Kim's doing.

 

There's a personal element going on here that none of us are privy to, obviously. Just speculating, of course, but that dog bite issue probably had some real world impact on Kyle being involved with Kim. Kim was nasty on television about her niece so I can only imagine how nasty she was in real life. It wouldn't shock me if Kyle is keeping her distance from the family, as you say, and just trying to keep above the fray. There's got to be some really bad blood now.

 

Neither Kyle or Kim are that good at acting. That reunion was painful to watch. There's a serious rift there.

[MatildaMoody]

Trying to understand this makes me feel like I'm stupid. 

 

Is the idea that NA don't want to be reminded of their history of having to deal with a two faced and duplicitous government? I'm trying to understand how the slur is hurtful or harmful from the perspective of Native Americans when they aren't considered to be the ones with the forked tongues. 

 

Anyone can potentially be two faced or a thief and a liar. The fact that the NA aren't the ones who the slur is being used on is totally confusing because when I compare it to the other big slurs those are directed towards specific groups whereas forked tongue can be applied broadly. If somebody calls me a liar and a thief and I'm not then those are already going to be fighting words. (Not that I fight lol but you know what I mean.)

 

Plus I'm looking at the context. One privileged caucasian woman insulting the nature of another privileged caucasian woman and race isn't playing into it at all. The comment was all about the perceived behavior of another. Kathy certainly wasn't attempting to imitate anyone or do her impression of a NA. It wasn't nice at all but to me it didn't come across as any more offensive than Kim calling Eileen a beast. They're rude and entitled bitches and this is the level they work on but I think Kathy would be legitimately shocked to know that the comment is being taken as a slur. Slurs like Indian Giver though--I totally get that. 

 

The things we learn watching RH shows. There could be a thread just about that. Like in the style of everything you need to know you learned in kindergarten. 

 

I think the confusion is in that it is being called a "slur." In current times when we hear the word slur we always think in terms of race, sexuality, gender, etc. This is an apt phrase that the First Nations used to describe the practices by invaders. In the battles between the French and the Iroquois, the French invaders would invite members of the Iroquois tribe to participate in peace talks only to slaughter them on arrival. Or, the issues when invaders would provide Native Americans with poisoned blankets or water. They came bearing gifts, but the gifts themselves were meant to kill off entire tribes.

 

So, when you accuse someone of speaking with a forked tongue, you are denigrating their character as being untrustworthy at the least, and downright evil at the most. It is not a racial denigration, although at the time it was primarily used to describe white invaders of the Native American First Nations. My great grandmother was Choctaw and Blackfoot, my grandmother would use the phrase "forked tongued devil" to describe anyone who had tried to scam her or anyone else by telling egregious lies or through other forms of deceit.

[BlackMamba]

I agree. Alexia's dog bite did cause the ultimate rift and the straw that broke the camel's back. Because it still goes back to Kim not wanting to take accountability and responsibility for her actions. Plus Kim, like she did during Whitney's spa day in season 1, she wanted Kyle to back her up when Whitney wanted to see her dad in TX and Kyle didnt. Kim must some serious screws loose to think, even with Kingsley, Kyle was going to chose her/Kingsley's side over her own daughter.

Neither Kyle or Kim are that good at acting.

[EVS]

Check it out everyone Brandi is stilltalking and saying Kim's "rehab" is like the four seasons

http://www.eonline.com/news/655446/brandi-glanville-talks-visiting-kim-richards-in-rehab-jokes-that-it-s-like-the-four-seasons

I think Kim's "rehab" probably IS the Four Seasons or another upscale hotel that Kathy is paying for, and that "sober living" means that room service and the hotel bar have been told not to serve Kim alcohol.

Edited for clarity.

Edited May 11, 2015 by EVS

[MissMel]

Trying to understand this makes me feel like I'm stupid. 

 

Is the idea that NA don't want to be reminded of their history of having to deal with a two faced and duplicitous government? I'm trying to understand how the slur is hurtful or harmful from the perspective of Native Americans when they aren't considered to be the ones with the forked tongues. 

 

Anyone can potentially be two faced or a thief and a liar. The fact that the NA aren't the ones who the slur is being used on is totally confusing because when I compare it to the other big slurs those are directed towards specific groups whereas forked tongue can be applied broadly. If somebody calls me a liar and a thief and I'm not then those are already going to be fighting words. (Not that I fight lol but you know what I mean.)

 

Plus I'm looking at the context. One privileged caucasian woman insulting the nature of another privileged caucasian woman and race isn't playing into it at all. The comment was all about the perceived behavior of another. Kathy certainly wasn't attempting to imitate anyone or do her impression of a NA. It wasn't nice at all but to me it didn't come across as any more offensive than Kim calling Eileen a beast. They're rude and entitled bitches and this is the level they work on but I think Kathy would be legitimately shocked to know that the comment is being taken as a slur. Slurs like Indian Giver though--I totally get that. 

 

The things we learn watching RH shows. There could be a thread just about that. Like in the style of everything you need to know you learned in kindergarten.

You are not stupid. It's just not talked about.

Anyone can be two faced. Or a theif. It's just "say that". Not forked tongue. It's not any different than "Indian Giver". I speak as a Native that gets shunned for my eye color. It's a tough group. With tough lines.

Tell me a person has a forked tongue. They automatically become invisible to me. Tell me the person is a liar? I'll use my own judgement on that.

It probably is not okay to think as I do. It sucks to hit that little box that asks your color/background. I need a "not quite white" box. Black hair, blue eyes, light skin. And tiny. No forked tongue though. (I'm sorry but that cuts deep. We don't say it lightly.)

[MissMel]

I think the confusion is in that it is being called a "slur." In current times when we hear the word slur we always think in terms of race, sexuality, gender, etc. This is an apt phrase that the First Nations used to describe the practices by invaders. In the battles between the French and the Iroquois, the French invaders would invite members of the Iroquois tribe to participate in peace talks only to slaughter them on arrival. Or, the issues when invaders would provide Native Americans with poisoned blankets or water. They came bearing gifts, but the gifts themselves were meant to kill off entire tribes.

 

So, when you accuse someone of speaking with a forked tongue, you are denigrating their character as being untrustworthy at the least, and downright evil at the most. It is not a racial denigration, although at the time it was primarily used to describe white invaders of the Native American First Nations. My great grandmother was Choctaw and Blackfoot, my grandmother would use the phrase "forked tongued devil" to describe anyone who had tried to scam her or anyone else by telling egregious lies or through other forms of deceit.

Thank you. This is just it. Deceitful. It's not meant to be thrown around lightly.

[BlackMamba]

I think Kim's "rehab" probably IS the Four Seasons or another upscale hotel that Kathy is paying for, and that "sober living" means that room service and the hotel bar have been told not to serve Kim alcohol.

Edited for clarity.

[AnnA]

If the negative connotation of FT is with the government why is it a NA slur? I guess that's what has always confused me. Thank you in advance for explaining this to me.

 

We all probably heard the phrase used by Native Americans in old western movies but that's not the only place it's been used.   It can certainly be used to describe Kim Richards.  It's not complimentary but using the term "forked tongue" is not a slur.   If you do a search for the phrase, you'll find a slew of websites defining it as:

 

"The phrase "speaks with a forked tongue" means to say one thing and mean another or, to be hypocritical, or act in a duplicitous manner."

 

http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/31172/speaking-with-a-forked-tongue

 

http://www.definitions.net/definition/forked%20tongue

 

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/speak+with+forked+tongue

Edited May 11, 2015 by AnnA

[Gam2]

Just a thought but I keep reading about "Kathy's" children and how spoiled and awful they are ( with the exception of the one daughter who isn't Paris-can't remember her name). I do agree that her kids are a product of their sad upbringing but they do have a father. In my family, the fathers have always had a strong influence on their sons and daughters. That's true even though we all had strong, in charge moms. The worst thing I could have done growing up was to disappoint my dad. What is Rick Hilton's responsibility for his children's raising and behavior? Where the heck has he been with these people? I won't call them kids because they're all adults now. With their wealth and opportunities, have they contributed anything to make this world a better place? You know, besides a sex tape and a tirade on an airplane. This family seems like a waste of space on this planet. 

[BlackMamba]

Brooke Brinson’s Wedding: Kyle Richards Declines Invitation?

http://www.inquisitr.com/2082273/brooke-brinsons-wedding-kyle-richards-declines-invitation/

[MissMel]

We all probably heard the phrase used by Native Americans in old western movies but that's not the only place it's been used. It can certainly be used to describe Kim Richards. It's not complimentary but using the term "forked tongue" is not a slur. If you do a search for the phrase, you'll find a slew of websites defining it as:

"The phrase "speaks with a forked tongue" means to say one thing and mean another or, to be hypocritical, or act in a duplicitous manner."

Which is another way to say two faced. Just say that. Fork tongue is rude. Point blank, period.

Edited May 11, 2015 by MissMel

[AnnA]

Brooke Brinson’s Wedding: Kyle Richards Declines Invitation?

http://www.inquisitr.com/2082273/brooke-brinsons-wedding-kyle-richards-declines-invitation/

 

Mexico?

 

Unless I'm as delusional as Kim Richards, I remember previous reports saying that it was in Dubai.

[JennyMominFL]

It is a Native American expression. It does refer to the government lying to us. Being two faced is a better description. Having a forked tongue is not.

A person probably shouldn't throw out "forked tongue". Two faced is accepted. Forked tongue carries a lot of weight. To keep it simple, those are fighting words.

I thought I knew pretty welll things that are offensive to say. I did not know the history of this. I was ignorant. Thanks for educating me on this. I don't think I've used the expression and I certainly never will now 

Edited May 12, 2015 by JennyMominFL

[AnnA]

Which is another way to say two faced. Just say that. Fork tongue is rude. Point blank, period.

 

Two faced, forked tongue..........potato, po-ta-to.........it's all the same and basically calling someone a liar.  Kim Richards has told more than her share of lies so if someone said she spoke with a forked tongue, it's true.  It's no more of a slur than calling her a drunk or an addict which almost everyone has done.

 

We can just agree to disagree about it being any more "rude" than other things that have been said about her.

Edited May 11, 2015 by AnnA

[MissMel]

I think it was always Mexico. Dubai was a business trip. I think. I could be wrong.

[MatildaMoody]

We all probably heard the phrase used by Native Americans in old western movies but that's not the only place it's been used.   It can certainly be used to describe Kim Richards.  It's not complimentary but using the term "forked tongue" is not a slur.   If you do a search for the phrase, you'll find a slew of websites defining it as:

 

"The phrase "speaks with a forked tongue" means to say one thing and mean another or, to be hypocritical, or act in a duplicitous manner."

 

http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/31172/speaking-with-a-forked-tongue

 

http://www.definitions.net/definition/forked%20tongue

 

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/speak+with+forked+tongue

 

Right. The confusion comes in defining the phrase as a slur, which technically is correct as it acts as a slander or denigration upon a specific behavior, person or group of people. However, in modern parlance, we generally use the word slur to refer specifically to race, gender, sexuality, etc. 

 

So, while it is technically a slur, it isn't what we in our modern culture define as a slur. When I say technically, I mean the definition of the noun, which is:

 

 

an insinuation or allegation about someone that is likely to insult them or damage their reputation.

 

ETA: I am not trying to speak for you MissMel, so please correct me if I am wrong. But, I believe that what she is saying is that this is one of the worst things that you could call someone within NA/FN community. So, I can understand it immediately getting her hackles up. 

 

My understanding of the phrasing is more removed from the original culture than MissMel's, as my great grandmother was NA, while my grandmother - who taught me about my NA culture and encouraged me to learn as much about it as possible, had a black father and felt that part of my heritage was just as important since she would later identify as a black woman. 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2015 by MatildaMoody

[MissMel]

Two faced, forked tongue..........potato, po-ta-to.........it's all the same and basically calling someone a liar.  Kim Richards has told more than her share of lies so if someone said she spoke with a forked tongue, it's true.  It's no more of a slur than calling her a drunk or an addict which almost everyone has done.

 

We can just agree to disagree about it being any more "rude" than other things that have been said about her.

We can. I don't consider it so minuscule as potato/potatoh though. That's a bit sad. Oh well....

[JennyMominFL]

The bottom line for me, is that, when a group that has a history of persecution, tells me something is offensive, I take their word for it.

 When I was young I didn't know the conotations of the word gyped. I do now and I don't use it..

I'll stick with two-faced  

[MissMel]

Right. The confusion comes in defining the phrase as a slur, which technically is correct as it acts as a slander or denigration upon a specific behavior, person or group of people. However, in modern parlance, we generally use the word slur to refer specifically to race, gender, sexuality, etc.

So, while it is technically a slur, it isn't what we in our modern culture define as a slur. When I say technically, I mean the definition of the noun, which is:

ETA: I am not trying to speak for you MissMel, so please correct me if I am wrong. But, I believe that what she is saying is that this is one of the worst things that you could call someone within NA/FN community. So, I can understand it immediately getting her hackles up.

My understanding of the phrasing is more removed from the original culture than MissMel's, as my great grandmother was NA, while my grandmother - who taught me about my NA culture and encouraged me to learn as much about it as possible, had a black father and felt that part of my heritage was just as important since she would later identify as a black woman.

Thank you. This is it exactly. I didn't have the words to describe it very well, apparently.

ETA: I don't use the word gyped now, either. When you know better, you do better. Right? :)

Edited May 12, 2015 by MissMel

[AnnA]

Right. The confusion comes in defining the phrase as a slur, which technically is correct as it acts as a slander or denigration upon a specific behavior, person or group of people. However, in modern parlance, we generally use the word slur to refer specifically to race, gender, sexuality, etc. 

 

So, while it is technically a slur, it isn't what we in our modern culture define as a slur. When I say technically, I mean the definition of the noun, which is:

 

"an insinuation or allegation about someone that is likely to insult them or damage their reputation."

 

I was going to bow out of this discussion but your post brought up an interesting point about the modern interpretation of the word "slur."   I agree that we tend to think of race, gender, sexuality, etc.  Even if one associates "forked tongue" to Native Americans, it is in no way an insult to them.   If we were to point out every instance of libel (written word) about Kim Richards, nearly every thread on this forum would have to be censored.  

 

It's probably impossible to accurately pinpoint the origins of the word with certainty but there are historians who believe it originated with the Iroquois Indians in New York and the people they claimed were speaking with "forked tongue" were the French.

 

“To speak with forked tongue” appropriately, on one account of its origins, goes back to 1699, to the French army in America,"

 

 http://www.internauta-online.com/2013/10/to-speak-with-forked-tongue-or-the-dishonesty-of-ted-cruz-presidental-aspirant/

 

My maternal grandmother was born in Marseilles, France so if anyone should take offense it would be someone with ties to France.

 

It was probably a waste of time to post this since the mods will probably delete this entire discussion because it is OT.

Edited May 12, 2015 by AnnA

[MatildaMoody]

Thank you. This is it exactly. I didn't have the words to describe it very well, apparently.

ETA: I don't use the word gyped now, either. When you know better, you do better. Right? :)

You're welcome :). I thought you explained it just fine. I think that the only confusion was that you used the word "slur" in it's literal definition and in our PC world, that would definitely throw people off when trying to get across such an immediate emotional response to a cultural phrase. 

[rehoboth]

Brooke Brinson’s Wedding: Kyle Richards Declines Invitation?

http://www.inquisitr.com/2082273/brooke-brinsons-wedding-kyle-richards-declines-invitation/

 

I never expected for Kyle not to go.  I'm not sure if she's not going because she's weak or she's strong(er).  Weak because she knows that Kim doesn't want her there and Kim will ruin things more in the family in an attempt to get her way or strong because she is really drawing boundaries and sticking to them.  I would like to think that Kyle is listening to NA and taking in good advise from the Umansky family but I can't get the picture of Kim and Kyle pointing their fingers at each other and shrieking "You're soooo mean!"  "No, you are meannnnnnner!!!!"

[WireWrap]

Just a thought but I keep reading about "Kathy's" children and how spoiled and awful they are ( with the exception of the one daughter who isn't Paris-can't remember her name). I do agree that her kids are a product of their sad upbringing but they do have a father. In my family, the fathers have always had a strong influence on their sons and daughters. That's true even though we all had strong, in charge moms. The worst thing I could have done growing up was to disappoint my dad. What is Rick Hilton's responsibility for his children's raising and behavior? Where the heck has he been with these people? I won't call them kids because they're all adults now. With their wealth and opportunities, have they contributed anything to make this world a better place? You know, besides a sex tape and a tirade on an airplane. This family seems like a waste of space on this planet. 

The Hilton clan is just as messed up as the Dugan/Richard's clan. (Dugan was Big Kathy's maiden name) Lax/bad parenting all around on both sides!

[MatildaMoody]

I was going to bow out of this discussion but your post brought up an interesting point about the modern interpretation of the word "slur."   I agree that we tend to think of race, gender, sexuality, etc.  Even if one associates "forked tongue" to Native Americans, it is in no way an insult to them.   If we were to point out every instance of libel (written word) about Kim Richards, nearly every thread on this forum would have to be censored.  

 

It's probably impossible to accurately pinpoint the origins of the word with certainty but there are historians who believe it originated with the Iroquois Indians in New York and the people they claimed were speaking with "forked tongue" were the French.

 

“To speak with forked tongue” appropriately, on one account of its origins, goes back to 1699, to the French army in America,"

 

 http://www.internauta-online.com/2013/10/to-speak-with-forked-tongue-or-the-dishonesty-of-ted-cruz-presidental-aspirant/

 

My maternal grandmother was born in Marseilles, France so if anyone should take offense it would be someone with ties to France.

 

It was probably a waste of time to post this since the mods will probably delete this entire discussion because it is OT.

I am so glad I could contribute, and I hope this discussion isn't deleted. I love words and I love when a word is used literally, even though I understand that sometimes the literal interpretation is lost in the translation of how we use words in modern parlance. MissMel's use of the word "slur" made sense to me (I tend to do better with the literal in general), but I also understood that many would assume that she meant it was racially indicative and I wanted to make sure I understood both her point and yours.

 

And I am glad that you didn't bow out of this discussion. I think there is so much that we can learn if we treat the Housewives as an anthropological study. 

 

This is awesome, Kathy Hilton managed to bring up all of the things that my grandmother taught me by using a single phrase on Twitter. Where else in the world can you get that kind of education? Hell, where else in the world is Kathy Hilton responsible for this type of intellectual discourse?

[WireWrap]

I never expected for Kyle not to go.  I'm not sure if she's not going because she's weak or she's strong(er).  Weak because she knows that Kim doesn't want her there and Kim will ruin things more in the family in an attempt to get her way or strong because she is really drawing boundaries and sticking to them.  I would like to think that Kyle is listening to NA and taking in good advise from the Umansky family but I can't get the picture of Kim and Kyle pointing their fingers at each other and shrieking "You're soooo mean!"  "No, you are meannnnnnner!!!!"

It is also possible that Brooke/Kim did not invite Kyle. Kyle said at the reunion that Kim did not want for her to go sooooo, this may be someone on that side, Kim's, of the fight trying to make Kyle look bad in the tabloids. I can see Kim/Kathy pulling that stunt, or Brandi feeding the rags at Kim's/Kathy's behest.

[MissMel]

Time to shut my trap. ;)

Edited May 12, 2015 by MissMel

[Avaleigh]

The bottom line for me, is that, when a group that has a history of persecution, tells me something is offensive, I take their word for it.

 When I was young I didn't know the conotations of the word gyped. I do now and I don't use it..

I'll stick with two-faced  

This is where I ultimately come down on it. I've never used the expression anyway. I don't think I was conscious at all of the fact that it's even an "expression" in the idiomatic sense until reading these posts and then going to check for myself. Again, the things one learns when watching a RH show.

 

It is also possible that Brooke/Kim did not invite Kyle. Kyle said at the reunion that Kim did not want for her to go sooooo, this may be someone on that side, Kim's, of the fight trying to make Kyle look bad in the tabloids. I can see Kim/Kathy pulling that stunt, or Brandi feeding the rags at Kim's/Kathy's behest.

I wonder if Brooke would really not invite her. I can see them having a conversation about how it's better that Kyle maybe not attend but at the end of the day I'm inclined to think Brooke's strong enough to tell her mom to shut up and deal already. If this is true will the cousins also not attend? That seems like it would be a shame. 

 

I don't know, I feel like this might just be a rumor. Kyle is willing to put up with a lot of shit and I feel like she'd still be willing to go for Brooke and Thad unless Kim was flat out telling her that she wouldn't welcome her. It's so sad and it makes Kim look so wretched and bitter. 

[BlackMamba]

It is also possible that Brooke/Kim did not invite Kyle. Kyle said at the reunion that Kim did not want for her to go sooooo, this may be someone on that side, Kim's, of the fight trying to make Kyle look bad in the tabloids. I can see Kim/Kathy pulling that stunt, or Brandi feeding the rags at Kim's/Kathy's behest.

I think Kyle and Brooke might have spoken ahead of time. I still say Brooke is grown and can invite who she wants too but in the same breath look who her mom is. When Kim doesn't get her way all hell breaks loose.

Kyle, when it comes to Kim, isnt trying to rock the boat nor give Kim the satisfaction at possibly ruining Brooke's dream wedding. Kim has already tried to be sneaky at disinviting her to the wedding behind her back and Kim got exposed for doing such.

Now here's a question was Kim's disinviting of Kyle came before or after Kyle posted those pics of Alexia being in the hospital? Kim might have done this out of spite.

Edited May 12, 2015 by BlackMamba

[missy jo]

I think that Kathy is talking about Lisa V. People think she is "lovely". This is a term that is often used to describe her.

 

 

I also vote Lisa V. "Lovely" is word that Lisa V herself uses often - it's oh so English, LOL!

[rehoboth]

I think Kyle and Brooke might have spoken ahead of time. I still say Brooke is grown and can invite who she wants too but in the same breath look who her mom is. When Kim doesn't get her way all hell breaks loose.

Kyle, when it comes to Kim, isnt trying to rock the boat nor give Kim the satisfaction at possibly ruining Brooke's dream wedding. Kim has already tried to be sneaky at disinviting her to the wedding behind her back and Kim got exposed for doing such.

Now here's a question was Kim's disinviting of Kyle came before or after Kyle posted those pics of Alexia being in the hospital? Kim might have done this out of spite.

 

Was it Lisa V who spilled the beans on the dis-invite to Kyle?  Did she overhear something at the reunion and bring it to Kyle's attention there?  I honestly don't know where I got this notion but it stuck in the back of my mind.

[WireWrap]

 

I wonder if Brooke would really not invite her. I can see them having a conversation about how it's better that Kyle maybe not attend but at the end of the day I'm inclined to think Brooke's strong enough to tell her mom to shut up and deal already. If this is true will the cousins also not attend? That seems like it would be a shame. 

 

I don't know, I feel like this might just be a rumor. Kyle is willing to put up with a lot of shit and I feel like she'd still be willing to go for Brooke and Thad unless Kim was flat out telling her that she wouldn't welcome her. It's so sad and it makes Kim look so wretched and bitter. 

I do see Brooke doing it at Kim's/Kathy's behest. She and her siblings know how bad Kim can and will make the wedding if Kim is hell bent on Kyle not coming. I also don't think Kyle would want Brooke to choose her over her mother. IMO, Kyle loves her nieces/nephews more than she loves herself and would be willing to stay home if it made it easier for Brooke. Kim on the other hand, cares less about hurting her kids or putting her wants/needs ahead of them, let alone care about Kyle or Kyle's kids feelings. 

 

Of course, it could always be nothing more than a rumor that is based on what was said at the reunion but sadly, I suspect it is true.

 

I think Kyle and Brooke might have spoken ahead of time. I still say Brooke is grown and can invite who she wants too but in the same breath look who her mom is. When Kim doesn't get her way all hell breaks loose.

Kyle, when it comes to Kim, isnt trying to rock the boat nor give Kim the satisfaction at possibly ruining Brooke's dream wedding. Kim has already tried to be sneaky at disinviting her to the wedding behind her back and Kim got exposed for doing such.

Now here's a question was Kim's disinviting of Kyle came before or after Kyle posted those pics of Alexia being in the hospital? Kim might have done this out of spite.

IMO, everything came after the dog bite and the IG posts/photos.

 

It happened....... All because no one knows what Kim goes through at night, how much her 1000000% pain hurts her, especially in her ongoing 80 years of continuous sobriety, so much so that her son, Kingsley, was forced to maul an 80 year old woman that preplanned the attack so she could make tons of money, then to have her niece stick her finger inside her sons mouth and force his jaws shut so that she could go to the hospital 2 times because her mother refused to put needed Neosporin on the scratch because this evil mother needed more IG followers! That's Kim's story and she is sticking to it!

[BlackMamba]

Was it Lisa V who spilled the beans on the dis-invite to Kyle? Did she overhear something at the reunion and bring it to Kyle's attention there? I honestly don't know where I got this notion but it stuck in the back of my mind.

The rumor that TMZ put out that it LVP told Kyle about it. But Kim and LVP arent close. They have no reason to speak about that. So I dont believe that for a second. I think that rumor was developed right after Kim was arrested and Kim blamed the reunion, her dog drama, caring for Monty, looking after Chad and his mental illness and Brooke's wedding all on why she was drunk.

[WireWrap]

The rumor that TMZ put out that it LVP told Kyle about it. But Kim and LVP arent close. They have no reason to speak about that. So I dont believe that for a second. I think that rumor was developed right after Kim was arrested and Kim blamed the reunion, her dog drama, caring for Monty, looking after Chad and his mental illness and Brooke's wedding all on why she was drunk.

I agree that Kim would never tell LisaV  and I do not think Kathy would either. I suspect it was Brook who told Farrah, who then told her mother. It is a shame that  Brooke's celebration/party is being used as a weapon by her mother to hurt her Aunt and cousins. Typical Kim IMO.

[Lura]

I'd think this decision for Kyle about whether or not to attend the wedding would be a hard one, especially after the mean things that Kim said to her at the reunion.Still,I think that if I were advising Kyle, I'd tell her to attend the wedding out of respect for the family, but then leave to avoid any confrontations. I'm certainly not going to rake Kyle through the coals, though, for whatever decision she makes. She's far closer to the situation than I am, and she has to deal with this in the best way she knows how.