Bethenny & Jason: The Divorce Showdown

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

8 hours ago, film noire said:

There is a big difference -- and Frankel is not just an exaggerator, she's a liar -- maybe we need to make up a master list of her lies, so we don't keep looping around this?

 Off the top of my head: her step dad did not blow her off for years, he paid her rent; she did not have a childhood devoid of family dinners, birthday parties, or family vacations, there are dozens of photographs showing otherwise. She was not lost at sea, and she either did/did not have an eating disorder based on which year/interview you're reading.

I liked Bethenny when she started. Then she said "I don't have parents". I was like what ? I "know" (within circles ) of your dad. He's very much alive. Then Jill said she thought Bethenny was an orphan for the longest time because she said she didn't have parents. And that was part of the reason Jill helped her. 

That was it for me. She stated a lie. Rolled with the fact Jill was helping her in part due to that and went on to roll with it as her story arc on teevee.  And I cannot believe everything she says in this divorce because she came out of the gate no pun intended running that race. Doesn't have parents. Maybe they're not Ward and June Cleaver but sister, you have parents. Like Alex said on WWHL Bethenny has not changed a bit. And this is why she has no credibility with me, ever. I need to see it to believe it. 

[motorcitymom65]

21 minutes ago, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

I liked Bethenny when she started. Then she said "I don't have parents". I was like what ? I "know" (within circles ) of your dad. He's very much alive. Then Jill said she thought Bethenny was an orphan for the longest time because she said she didn't have parents. And that was part of the reason Jill helped her. 

That was it for me. She stated a lie. Rolled with the fact Jill was helping her in part due to that and went on to roll with it as her story arc on teevee.  And I cannot believe everything she says in this divorce because she came out of the gate no pun intended running that race. Doesn't have parents. Maybe they're not Ward and June Cleaver but sister, you have parents. Like Alex said on WWHL Bethenny has not changed a bit. And this is why she has no credibility with me, ever. I need to see it to believe it. 

But...Jill. Didn't Beth talk about her horrible childhood a bit on the Martha Stewart show? I thought she was upfront from the beginning about her dysfunctional childhood. I just always assumed the "I don't have parents" thing was the same as my siblings say about our dad. That we didn't have one. Because to us, we didn't. My boss of a dozen years - who I am close to - was shocked when I asked for time off for his funeral, because he assumed he was already long dead. It's not shocking, but nice to the extreme for those that never knew such things. 

[BBHN]

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From the most recently released information as to what Bethenny claims, and it is Bethenny's claim, the police weren't called out by neighbors because Bethenny received a 170 e-mails, or by the school due to Jason's behavior, it was Bethenny and her posse that presented at the police station

Isn't it usually the person who is being harrassed/stalked that ends up calling the police?

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I just always assumed the "I don't have parents" thing was the same as my siblings say about our dad.

Yeah, "I don't have parents" can be interpreted different ways.

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What is relevant to me is how affected Bethenny was by the stroll to the buffet table by Jason and his father.   This was about her wanting sole custody-not about her.  

Or maybe she just wanted Jason and his dad to stop acting like douchy assholes?

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

21 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

But...Jill. Didn't Beth talk about her horrible childhood a bit on the Martha Stewart show? I thought she was upfront from the beginning about her dysfunctional childhood. I just always assumed the "I don't have parents" thing was the same as my siblings say about our dad. That we didn't have one. Because to us, we didn't. My boss of a dozen years - who I am close to - was shocked when I asked for time off for his funeral, because he assumed he was already long dead. It's not shocking, but nice to the extreme for those that never knew such things. 

 

12 minutes ago, BBHN said:

 

Yeah, "I don't have parents" can be interpreted different ways.

Yes it can be interpreted different ways including she doesn't have parents, figuratively or literally. Jill, who she lived with, it wasn't a passing convo over drinks, therefore had some closeness believed she was an orphan. Lends credibility to me. 

I simply don't know when to believe her and when not to. I don't like all the nonsense hyperbole most of the time. 

[BBHN]

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I simply don't know when to believe her and when not to. I don't like all the nonsense hyperbole most of the time. 

Fortunately I don't have that issue.

[zoeysmom]

47 minutes ago, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

 

Yes it can be interpreted different ways including she doesn't have parents, figuratively or literally. Jill, who she lived with, it wasn't a passing convo over drinks, therefore had some closeness believed she was an orphan. Lends credibility to me. 

I simply don't know when to believe her and when not to. I don't like all the nonsense hyperbole most of the time. 

She didn't have parents until it was convenient for to have parents. When it was even more attention grabbing she went back to not having parents.  People are very fungible in Bethenny's life.

I have the same issue. as far as the hyperbole.  It becomes exhausting having to figure out what percentage is true or if it is true, or if she is truly done with someone, or how interested she is in a guy.  The fake Eric Stonestreet stuff, the posting photos of a huge diamond engagement ring on her hand when she is with Dennis Shields I find to be beneath an entry level C- reality star.  I never know when she is "upset" if it is real or for camera time.  I have started to weigh the authenticity if she throws out a one liner-then I figure it isn't all that authentic.   The footage of returning to the apartment-registered a zero for me in authenticity.

 

.   

[motorcitymom65]

7 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

She didn't have parents until it was convenient for to have parents. When it was even more attention grabbing she went back to not having parents.  People are very fungible in Bethenny's life.

I have the same issue. as far as the hyperbole.  It becomes exhausting having to figure out what percentage is true or if it is true, or if she is truly done with someone, or how interested she is in a guy.  The fake Eric Stonestreet stuff, the posting photos of a huge diamond engagement ring on her hand when she is with Dennis Shields I find to be beneath an entry level C- reality star.  I never know when she is "upset" if it is real or for camera time.  I have started to weigh the authenticity if she throws out a one liner-then I figure it isn't all that authentic.   The footage of returning to the apartment-registered a zero for me in authenticity.

 

.   

But why the need to figure it out before she knows herself? She is hardly the first one to make claims in the heat of the moment that eventually goes the other way. They all do this. All people do this. Anyone who doesn't follow these gals outside of the show would know nothing about any of the stuff mentioned above. She is absolutely a fame whore, but then they all are. She is out to promote herself whenever she sees the opportunity, and the opportunity won't exist forever. It is very short lived. She just has a much bigger platform and more people paying attention to her and she uses it to her advantage. She wants people talking about her, and she doesn't much care if you are saying good things or bad things. She gets people talking about her over and over again, which is proof that what she is doing is working. I mean the Eric Stonestreet stuff was over a year ago, lasted for the blink of an eye, and yet folks are still talking about it. That is powerful stuff if you are a minor celebrity to be sure. 

[BBHN]

Hell, even people who can't stand her seem to follow her...

[Jel]

3 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Yea, you can find things like this in about anything that anyone says. My best friend is married to a total and complete d-bag. She likes to say that he "never" helps around the house. And he is the laziest person I have ever seen. But the fact is, I have seen him help her around the house. After begging, crying, threatening to leave, he has helped her before. I don't consider her a liar. I get her point. He likes to complain that they never have sex, and I don't begrudge him this. She hates sex. Has it only on the rare blue moon when she cannot take the demands any longer, and then she participates not at all, just waiting for it to be over. But they have 3 kids, so they have had sex before. So is he a liar? Not really. This is the kind of thing that people say. The kind of thing that everyone says. It doesn't negate their feelings about the thing, or the underlying truth about the situation.  Many of us believe that Ramona is always awful. To me she is and I am going to stick by this forever. But if pushed into a corner, I will say I have seen her be nice on the rare occasion, but I don't think I am lying (or even exaggerating). 

If Beth had a wonderful childhood with many happy memories and was making all of this up to seem more sympathetic than I would be on board. But everyone gets what she is saying. Can you find pictures of a dinner or a birthday? Probably. Doesn't mean they weren't steeped in drama and conflict. That they weren't rare in comparison to what she saw happening around her, what she thought was normal from watching her friends. It doesn't mean that she didn't feel unloved, scared, and ashamed by what was happening around her. 

ETA: Not to get political, but because it is early and I am watching the news, I will throw something else out there. I am watching a woman on TV who is part of the current administration defend the POTUS and the way he treats women by throwing out a few names of women that have benefitted from him over the years. Women he has helped or promoted. For verification that he loves women and is good to them. That he is not a misogynist. If he has hired them and promoted them, than the premise of him belittling and humiliating women must be all wrong. And I am sure they can find those examples if they look. But that won't change my underlying opinion of him and how he treats women. Just because someone can throw a thing or two out there, won't change all of the other stuff or the overall character of the person. OK. Political rant over. Now on to coffee (is it too early to add Bailey's to it??) 

I think this is spot on, MCM.

I'm starting to realize that some people are just more familiar with, and okay with her communication style. People like me, for example, who also indulge in a lot of hyperbole as a way to a) express emotion and degrees of emotion b) try to be funny.

I guess you know it when you see it, and you either like it or you don't. 

[BBHN]

Jel, I want to marry you.

Well, you get my meaning ;)

[ZoloftBlob]

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I don't get what you're saying about Jason offering it up?  We only know about this because of Beth's testimony at the custody hearing.  Jason never got a chance to testify.  I'm confused.

Jason has more options to speak out than at the custody hearing. He's not legally constrained to only speak about his marriage at legal proceedings. If he wanted to defend himself against what you say is a lie, he can certainly do an interview. Again, in the current legal issues, he's got no problem calling Bryn's mom a liar so

And I don't buy how he's protecting Bryn by not answering questions about this incident. One day, Bryn is going to read about her parents issues and this will come up. Is he going to tell his daughter "I was forced to settle so I never testified and I will only speak of this under oath"?

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think this is spot on, MCM.

I'm starting to realize that some people are just more familiar with, and okay with her communication style. People like me, for example, who also indulge in a lot of hyperbole as a way to a) express emotion and degrees of emotion b) try to be funny.

Exactly. To use the "I have no parents" example, I know a lot of people who use this term. I have never interpreted as "I was born in a scientific breeding crèche as a part of an experiment" and I also haven't interpreted it as "I am an orphan". People say this when they are estranged. And Jill Zarin is hardly a credible witness or an innocent little princess - she still wins the "Awfulest Housewife" award to me.

[motorcitymom65]

13 minutes ago, Jel said:

I'm starting to realize that some people are just more familiar with, and okay with her communication style. People like me, for example, who also indulge in a lot of hyperbole as a way to a) express emotion and degrees of emotion b) try to be funny.

I guess you know it when you see it, and you either like it or you don't. 

Perfectly said, per usual.

(well.....per usual on this thread......sometimes I want to throttle you on the BH thread, but even when I don't agree, you just always make so much damn sense).

[zoeysmom]

28 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

But why the need to figure it out before she knows herself? She is hardly the first one to make claims in the heat of the moment that eventually goes the other way. They all do this. All people do this. Anyone who doesn't follow these gals outside of the show would know nothing about any of the stuff mentioned above. She is absolutely a fame whore, but then they all are. She is out to promote herself whenever she sees the opportunity, and the opportunity won't exist forever. It is very short lived. She just has a much bigger platform and more people paying attention to her and she uses it to her advantage. She wants people talking about her, and she doesn't much care if you are saying good things or bad things. She gets people talking about her over and over again, which is proof that what she is doing is working. I mean the Eric Stonestreet stuff was over a year ago, lasted for the blink of an eye, and yet folks are still talking about it. That is powerful stuff if you are a minor celebrity to be sure. 

Well don't say it if you don't mean it.  There is always, " I need a break from you."  Here is the thing, she is the complaining witness is a criminal trial against her ex husband.  Veracity has a lot to do with her upcoming testimony. I guess she could say on the stand-I only exaggerate and lie when I want to get attention.  I don't know if that would help the People's case.  I am saying as someone who watches the show and reads up on her I am tired of trying to figure out when she is being straight forward and when she is embellishing.  I also understand there is a shifting dynamic this year because there won't be the usual wait for Luann to do something and live vicariously off her sex life.  So conversations, slights and behaviors by others have to be heightened. 

Well she and Eric Stonestreet were on WWHL last month.  Who has asked before or since who Eric Stonestreet is dating?  It was a cheap PR trick designed to drive up her radio show ratings.  So when she is talking about a guy wanting to marry her, and changing her mind about never marrying and then flashing an engagement ring-I don't pay attention anymore.  Last year I thought the reason they seemed to spend a lot of time in Nevada was so he could get a quicky divorce.  Turns out the guy never even filed.  This latest ploy with the hot body-don't care. 

[diadochokinesis]

24 minutes ago, Jel said:

I think this is spot on, MCM.

I'm starting to realize that some people are just more familiar with, and okay with her communication style. People like me, for example, who also indulge in a lot of hyperbole as a way to a) express emotion and degrees of emotion b) try to be funny.

I guess you know it when you see it, and you either like it or you don't. 

My husband and I are hyperbole people. We say it is because we like to tell a good story.  LOL. 

[KungFuBunny]

1 hour ago, ZoloftBlob said:

Jason has more options to speak out than at the custody hearing. He's not legally constrained to only speak about his marriage at legal proceedings. If he wanted to defend himself against what you say is a lie, he can certainly do an interview. Again, in the current legal issues, he's got no problem calling Bryn's mom a liar so

And I don't buy how he's protecting Bryn by not answering questions about this incident. One day, Bryn is going to read about her parents issues and this will come up. Is he going to tell his daughter "I was forced to settle so I never testified and I will only speak of this under oath"?

Exactly. To use the "I have no parents" example, I know a lot of people who use this term. I have never interpreted as "I was born in a scientific breeding crèche as a part of an experiment" and I also haven't interpreted it as "I am an orphan". People say this when they are estranged. And Jill Zarin is hardly a credible witness or an innocent little princess - she still wins the "Awfulest Housewife" award to me.

Jill Zarin Truth cannon - she posted Congratulations on your Baby Boy on her FB page to Bethenny.

LOL

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, ZoloftBlob said:

Jason has more options to speak out than at the custody hearing. He's not legally constrained to only speak about his marriage at legal proceedings. If he wanted to defend himself against what you say is a lie, he can certainly do an interview. Again, in the current legal issues, he's got no problem calling Bryn's mom a liar so

And I don't buy how he's protecting Bryn by not answering questions about this incident. One day, Bryn is going to read about her parents issues and this will come up. Is he going to tell his daughter "I was forced to settle so I never testified and I will only speak of this under oath"?

Exactly. To use the "I have no parents" example, I know a lot of people who use this term. I have never interpreted as "I was born in a scientific breeding crèche as a part of an experiment" and I also haven't interpreted it as "I am an orphan". People say this when they are estranged. And Jill Zarin is hardly a credible witness or an innocent little princess - she still wins the "Awfulest Housewife" award to me.

Does he?  It just may not be important to Jason if ZoloftBlop and Zoeysmom hear his side of the story.  Or did he agree to the court imposed gag order about not discussing the divorce?  Bethenny seems to cite it when she doesn't want to answer questions about their marriage and divorce.  The not speaking pejoratively about the other is usually extended to and encouraged to the parents.

Are speaking about the underwear scenario or the claims Bethenny made in general under oath?  Jason was NOT forced to settle, Bethenny withdrew her claim for primary custody.  Once Bethenny capitulated there was no need for Jason to testify and Bethenny was not subject to cross-examination.  The courtroom just isn't a place where you can tell your side-after you won. That is why many people believe Bethenny just wanted to garner sympathy about the "brutal torture" she had endured at the hands of Jason.  There is more to Jason's testimony that just refuting or explaining his side of the story, he can also bring up things Bethenny did to both him and the child.

Bryn has lived it, so she may not need any refreshing at all from either party.  I rarely believe a parent who claims to be able to turn the asshole off when they are in the presence of their children.  That is not saved for Bethenny and Jason, that is for most parents who make this claim.

Actually what Bethenny said is she was raised by wolves and she had no parents.  Generally when someone claims not to have parents I would think most people would presume they died, were abandoned ( as in a father who leaves for a pack of smokes and never returns) short of mentioning an estrangement.  What bothered me about Bethenny talking about her parents, is she breached their privacy-repeatedly.  I know it is part of all he B-Real charm, but I feel it is unfair to do that to family or friends. 

[ZoloftBlob]

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Or did he agree to the court imposed gag order about not discussing the divorce?  Bethenny seems to cite it when she doesn't want to answer questions about their marriage and divorce. 

Since we don't know if this gag order exists (and if it does and Bethenny is violating it then why isn't Jason taking her to court) there's really no evidence Jason is legally constrained from speaking out. That he *chooses* to not defend himself against the allegation is allowed to be interpreted beyond "HE'S DOING IT FOR BRYN!" - he could also be choosing to not discuss because it happened, and it makes him look bad.

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Jason was NOT forced to settle, Bethenny withdrew her claim for primary custody.  Once Bethenny capitulated there was no need for Jason to testify and Bethenny was not subject to cross-examination.  The courtroom just isn't a place where you can tell your side-after you won. That is why many people believe Bethenny just wanted to garner sympathy about the "brutal torture" she had endured at the hands of Jason.  There is more to Jason's testimony that just refuting or explaining his side of the story, he can also bring up things Bethenny did to both him and the child.

Jason was not forcibly silenced by Bethenny in a court of law. If Jason wants to speak out about his marriage or his views, he can certainly tell his side. That he chooses not to is all on him and is open for interpretation. Jason is responsible for his own decisions.

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Bryn has lived it, so she may not need any refreshing at all from either party. 

Bryn was two when they started falling out and is what, six or seven now? I'm sure she has memories but I am also sure they aren't perfect and she will likely have questions when she gets older.

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Actually what Bethenny said is she was raised by wolves and she had no parents.  Generally when someone claims not to have parents I would think most people would presume they died, were abandoned ( as in a father who leaves for a pack of smokes and never returns) short of mentioning an estrangement. 

I think enough people have disagreed on this to note that your opinion, while perfectly valid, is not necessarily fact set in stone. I've heard people use both of these terms to indicate a bad childhood and estrangement. Since no one is willing to claim that Bethenny really had a lovely, not in any way abusive childhood, where her parents are innocent and being libeled when she describes her relationships, I have no problem with these statements. If she's being called a liar because there's no way she literally had no parents, and she literally wasn't raised by a wolf pack, I'm a little "whatever" on it. Trust me when I say I don't consider Bethenny to be an innocent party in her relationship difficulties. I wouldn't want to even try to be friends with her. But I can't fault her for behavior that we all do, and I do try to be fair, even with people I don't like. She was speaking figuratively and since there's no disagreement that her childhood wasn't a bed of roses, calling her a liar because she said she was raised by wolves gets silly.

[Jel]

1 hour ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Perfectly said, per usual.

(well.....per usual on this thread......sometimes I want to throttle you on the BH thread, but even when I don't agree, you just always make so much damn sense).

Aw thanks, MCM. 

And lol! 

[QuinnM]

9 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

Since we don't know if this gag order exists (and if it does and Bethenny is violating it then why isn't Jason taking her to court) there's really no evidence Jason is legally constrained from speaking out. That he *chooses* to not defend himself against the allegation is allowed to be interpreted beyond "HE'S DOING IT FOR BRYN!" - he could also be choosing to not discuss because it happened, and it makes him look bad.

That was my point.  Once this was complete.  The divorce was called officially done.  Papers signed.  THen if there is a gag order it is part of the agreement.  

And I don't buy for one second that he is doing it for Bryn.  His behavior with the emails.  The content of the few emails that we've seen from the charges show this is a man bent on destroying Bethenny.  That isn't something that you would do for Bryn.  That's something you do because you want to win at all costs.  So if the divorce is over what could he possibly win now?  He's just a bully and he is mad.  He feels like she won.  So he needs to win and if Bryn is upset or unhappy well just too damn bad.  Because he wants to win.

[zoeysmom]

14 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

Since we don't know if this gag order exists (and if it does and Bethenny is violating it then why isn't Jason taking her to court) there's really no evidence Jason is legally constrained from speaking out. That he *chooses* to not defend himself against the allegation is allowed to be interpreted beyond "HE'S DOING IT FOR BRYN!" - he could also be choosing to not discuss because it happened, and it makes him look bad.

Jason was not forcibly silenced by Bethenny in a court of law. If Jason wants to speak out about his marriage or his views, he can certainly tell his side. That he chooses not to is all on him and is open for interpretation. Jason is responsible for his own decisions.

Bryn was two when they started falling out and is what, six or seven now? I'm sure she has memories but I am also sure they aren't perfect and she will likely have questions when she gets older.

I think enough people have disagreed on this to note that your opinion, while perfectly valid, is not necessarily fact set in stone. I've heard people use both of these terms to indicate a bad childhood and estrangement. Since no one is willing to claim that Bethenny really had a lovely, not in any way abusive childhood, where her parents are innocent and being libeled when she describes her relationships, I have no problem with these statements. If she's being called a liar because there's no way she literally had no parents, and she literally wasn't raised by a wolf pack, I'm a little "whatever" on it. Trust me when I say I don't consider Bethenny to be an innocent party in her relationship difficulties. I wouldn't want to even try to be friends with her. But I can't fault her for behavior that we all do, and I do try to be fair, even with people I don't like. She was speaking figuratively and since there's no disagreement that her childhood wasn't a bed of roses, calling her a liar because she said she was raised by wolves gets silly.

Well I do believe there has been a substantial number of links indicating the parties are not to discuss the divorce.  If I am not mistaken this goes all the way back to their pre-nup agreement where the parties agreed not to speak of one another in interviews.  What does Jason gain by giving an interview and telling his side of the story?  Those who don't like him won't see him any less creepy and those who supported his decision to zip it will not be able to hold him to the standard he has previously upheld.  Since the items Bethenny mentioned at trial, did not seem to rise to a level of deprivation of equitable parental rights, it doesn't bother me if he did or didn't do what he was accuse as to the child custody issues. 

I guess I am not as black and white as some.  I have to admit I was surprised after finding out Bethenny had been married before seeing her being walked down the aisle by Bobby Frankel in a Four Seasons wedding in Los Angeles.  From her representations I thought they had been estranged since her early childhood.  I strive not to be silly, and I believe I used the term veracity as it applies to her taking the witness stand.  Just as in my view there isn't time to lay a foundation as to why it is an insult calling Bethenny "Bernadette" causing Bethenny material harm to her mental or emotional health, I do believe when it becomes tedious to sift through her statements.  I don't think Luann had any solace in knowing Bethenny was the great exaggerator, when she said Luann has fucked everybody.  I do find Bethenny entertaining at times, as the years have passed there has been less entertainment and just too much B Real Bethenny.

[ZoloftBlob]

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I have to admit I was surprised after finding out Bethenny had been married before seeing her being walked down the aisle by Bobby Frankel in a Four Seasons wedding in Los Angeles.  From her representations I thought they had been estranged since her early

It's a major life event and a lot of people will try to put anger aside for weddings/births/funerals. These tend to be events that bring people together. At some point Bryn will likely marry and Jason and Bethenny will likely both attend the wedding. I wouldn't interprete that as "Bethenny was lying about not wanting Jason in her life" and I also wouldn't assume that it's an indicator they lied about having a bad relationship.

To use a silly example, it's like thinking Matt and Amy Roloff of Little People Big World are going to get back together and were lying about their acrimonious relationship simply because they will attending their daughter's wedding together. Of course they aren't, they're just willing to put aside their anger for one important life event.

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What does Jason gain by giving an interview and telling his side of the story?

People like me can't point out his silence on the matter is telling, for starters. If it didn't happen, he has every right to say "I didn't do that" - and such comments don't have to be ugly rants about the ex. She's describing something ugly and he's not denying it. People are going to form opinions based on his lack of response. My personal opinion? It happened and he realizes it was kinda douchy and not really defensible. Personally, I'm not even that horrified by the act, I mean, it's a petty stupid immature thing to do, but frankly I have no problem believing it happened because both Bethenny and Jason struck me as petty, stupid, and immature in relationships. I'd probably respect him more if he said "You know what? I was mad and I knew it would piss her off, especially since I was living there and she couldn't throw me out." We all have angry moments, we all occasionally do dumb douchy things.

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Just as in my view there isn't time to lay a foundation as to why it is an insult calling Bethenny "Bernadette" causing Bethenny material harm to her mental or emotional health, I do believe when it becomes tedious to sift through her statements.

It's as simple as this. He knows she doesn't like it. So he does it to piss her off. Why she doesn't like it is irrelevant. Look, a petty stupid immature move.

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I don't think Luann had any solace in knowing Bethenny was the great exaggerator, when she said Luann has fucked everybody. 

If Luann doesn't want people to think she fucks everybody, then maybe she needs to mind her own behavior. I know I came to that conclusion all on my own without Bethenny needing to say so.

[film noire]

35 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

It's a major life event and a lot of people will try to put anger aside for weddings/births/funerals. These tend to be events that bring people together. At some point Bryn will likely marry and Jason and Bethenny will likely both attend the wedding. 

I think parents being at their child's wedding is different than that child asking a (supposedly) loathed and estranged father to walk her down the aisle. (And I wonder who paid for her first wedding? The wolves? : )

5 hours ago, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

I don't like all the nonsense hyperbole most of the time. 

She's an exaggerator, a big time hyperbolist and a liar -- Triple Crown, baby! ; )

[ZoloftBlob]

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I think parents being at their child's wedding is different than that child asking a (supposedly) loathed and estranged father to walk her down the aisle

I beg to differ. It's usually viewed as a sort of peace offering, depending on the estrangement. I've attended at least two weddings where it was a very big deal that Daddy and Daughter agreed to put their differences aside to allow the socially acceptable presentation of Father walking Daughter down the aisle even though their actual issues continued to rage on. Likewise, especially among rich people and Bobby Frankel wasn't poor, sometimes it's better to do things like pay for your daughter's wedding than be the asshole who won't... particularly if people know you weren't an example parent.

Point - Betheny loathed her dad and was estranged. She also went to his bedside when he was dying, despite being estranged and despite loathing him. It's what people do with major life events, they put the anger aside, briefly.

[zoeysmom]

14 minutes ago, film noire said:

I think parents being at their child's wedding is different than that child asking a (supposedly) loathed and estranged father to walk her down the aisle. (And I wonder who paid for her first wedding? The wolves? : )

She's an exaggerator, a big time hyperbolist and a liar -- Triple Crown, baby! ; )

I can only go by what Bethenny originally represented and that was her father moved away, due to her mother taking up with his best friend, who she later married.  Actually Bethenny later revealed she left college not even walking in her graduation to seek a career in Hollywood-where her father lived.  After some checking I discovered, Bobby Frankel did not want to winter/train his horses in Maryland and could not get space in Hialeah, FL so he moved to the west coast.  I don't think money was the issue in Bethenny's life as a child, there seemed to money for boarding school and good colleges, it just seems it wasn't enough quality time, hence the "raised by wolves" tag.  To me it sounded like her father wasn't making an effort to establish a relationship with her.  She claimed at one point the first time she was to go west to see him at age 10 or so, something happened (either she or he got sick) and the trip was cancelled and not immediately rescheduled. 

Edited July 1, 2017 by zoeysmom

[BBHN]

Quote

I'm starting to realize that some people are just more familiar with, and okay with her communication style. People like me, for example, who also indulge in a lot of hyperbole as a way to a) express emotion and degrees of emotion b) try to be funny.

Exactly.

Quote

Jill Zarin Truth cannon - she posted Congratulations on your Baby Boy on her FB page to Bethenny.

Of course, it could have just been Jill being her passive-aggressive self ;)

Quote

And I don't buy for one second that he is doing it for Bryn.  His behavior with the emails.  The content of the few emails that we've seen from the charges show this is a man bent on destroying Bethenny.  That isn't something that you would do for Bryn.  That's something you do because you want to win at all costs.  So if the divorce is over what could he possibly win now?  He's just a bully and he is mad.  He feels like she won.  So he needs to win and if Bryn is upset or unhappy well just too damn bad.  Because he wants to win.

He wants the money! I still maintain if Bethenny cuts him a check with 7 zeroes at the end of it, his attitude and actions will change for the better. I think that "win" for Bethenny - the pre-nup and other financial issues - pissed him off. A lot. And made him act like an even bigger douche.

Quote

he's describing something ugly and he's not denying it. People are going to form opinions based on his lack of response. My personal opinion? It happened and he realizes it was kinda douchy and not really defensible.

Kinda? ;)

Quote

Point - Betheny loathed her dad and was estranged. She also went to his bedside when he was dying, despite being estranged and despite loathing him. It's what people do with major life events, they put the anger aside, briefly.

People are allowed to experience more than one emotion when it comes to other people.

[film noire]

31 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

I beg to differ. It's usually viewed as a sort of peace offering, depending on the estrangement. I've attended at least two weddings where it was a very big deal that Daddy and Daughter agreed to put their differences aside to allow the socially acceptable presentation of Father walking Daughter down the aisle even though their actual issues continued to rage on. Likewise, especially among rich people and Bobby Frankel wasn't poor, sometimes it's better to do things like pay for your daughter's wedding than be the asshole who won't... particularly if people know you weren't an example parent.

Point - Betheny loathed her dad and was estranged. She also went to his bedside when he was dying, despite being estranged and despite loathing him. It's what people do with major life events, they put the anger aside, briefly.

How are we differing? I'm saying a bride asking her father to walk her down the aisle is big deal, not something done lightly -- and since Frankel did that, it proves she was not so estranged she did not have him by her side for her (first) wedding day. When you say you have no parents, most people assume that means you have no parents, or no relationship with your parents, not that your father walked you down the aisle (and possibly paid for your wedding). We can label her chronic truthiness hyperbole, exaggeration, or a flight of fancy, but the purpose is always to mislead, not to clarify -- duplicity is always at work with her.

And I don't think Jason not defending himself has any more weight than Frankel not publicly defending herself against issues Hoppy's lawyer raised at the custody hearing. She's never answered the claim that she hired an illustrator to follow Bryn around the apartment drawing the kid -- so Bryn could be the model for a children's  book full of SkinnyGirl logos  -- I don't assume her lack of response is an admission of guilt,  just that the claim was made. 

Edited July 1, 2017 by film noire

[KungFuBunny]

2 hours ago, QuinnM said:

That was my point.  Once this was complete.  The divorce was called officially done.  Papers signed.  THen if there is a gag order it is part of the agreement.  

And I don't buy for one second that he is doing it for Bryn.  His behavior with the emails.  The content of the few emails that we've seen from the charges show this is a man bent on destroying Bethenny.  That isn't something that you would do for Bryn.  That's something you do because you want to win at all costs.  So if the divorce is over what could he possibly win now?  He's just a bully and he is mad.  He feels like she won.  So he needs to win and if Bryn is upset or unhappy well just too damn bad.  Because he wants to win.

Egads!

Floppy Hoppy suffers from Charlie Sheen Syndrome

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

I'm saying a bride asking her father to walk her down the aisle is big deal, not something done lightly -- and since Frankel did that, it proves she was not so estranged she did not have him by her side for her (first) wedding day.

I'm saying she can be estranged and still have allowed him to participate in a life moment. Correct me if I am wrong, you're stating she let him participate in her first wedding, therefore she's not estranged and has never been estranged and therefore she is lying when she says she is estranged, and had a happy loving relationship with her dad.

It's not that simple in real life relationships, and I have a problem with calling her a liar when its been conceded by all parties that Bethenny and her dad were estranged and at times not even speaking or seeing each other - I mean really, her dad participating in her wedding so every single thing she's said is a lie and Bobby Frankel was a model dad?

[film noire]

31 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

Correct me if I am wrong

 

You're wrong ; )

I'm not saying she had a great relationship with her dad (not sure where you got that from)  I'm saying her presentation of her situation was duplicitous. She didn't say (something like) "He walked me down the aisle, but it did nothing to help the estrangement", she said things intended to mislead people. As with everything Frankel says,  at core there is never truth, only spin.

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

) "He walked me down the aisle, but it did nothing to help the estrangement",

But that's entirely possible and happens all the time in a lot of families.  And she said she was estranged from her dad - how was that lying? I mean, I understand what you're attempting here - you want to paint Bethenny as lying but if you don't believe she had a warm loving relationship with her dad, what do you think she is lying about when she says they were estranged? I'm genuinely confused that you don't believe they had a good relationship but are offended to the point of calling her a liar because she said she was estranged from her father. They didn't talk for years, and no one in the family disputes that their relationship was poor. How is that not estranged?

Quote

As with everything Frankel says,  at core there is never truth, only spin.

She said at one point that Jason Hoppy was a great guy.

[motorcitymom65]

2 hours ago, ZoloftBlob said:

I beg to differ. It's usually viewed as a sort of peace offering, depending on the estrangement. I've attended at least two weddings where it was a very big deal that Daddy and Daughter agreed to put their differences aside to allow the socially acceptable presentation of Father walking Daughter down the aisle even though their actual issues continued to rage on. Likewise, especially among rich people and Bobby Frankel wasn't poor, sometimes it's better to do things like pay for your daughter's wedding than be the asshole who won't... particularly if people know you weren't an example parent.

Point - Betheny loathed her dad and was estranged. She also went to his bedside when he was dying, despite being estranged and despite loathing him. It's what people do with major life events, they put the anger aside, briefly.

Yea. That's why I did it. Sometimes you think that big moments like will be the thing to change things and make things better. The romance and hope that comes with it all. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Doesn't seem like it did for Beth. 

[BBHN]

Quote

I'm saying she can be estranged and still have allowed him to participate in a life moment. Correct me if I am wrong, you're stating she let him participate in her first wedding, therefore she's not estranged and has never been estranged and therefore she is lying when she says she is estranged, and had a happy loving relationship with her dad.

It's not that simple in real life relationships, and I have a problem with calling her a liar when its been conceded by all parties that Bethenny and her dad were estranged and at times not even speaking or seeing each other - I mean really, her dad participating in her wedding so every single thing she's said is a lie and Bobby Frankel was a model dad?

Yeah, that is possible. Hell I've been to weddings where some of the people in the wedding party couldn't stand each other. What you are saying isn't that farfetched.

[the killer]

6 hours ago, ZoloftBlob said:

Jason has more options to speak out than at the custody hearing. He's not legally constrained to only speak about his marriage at legal proceedings. If he wanted to defend himself against what you say is a lie, he can certainly do an interview. Again, in the current legal issues, he's got no problem calling Bryn's mom a liar so

I don't think this is true. I thought of them were prohibited by a court order from discussing it. That is why Bethenny is not talking about it on the show. That is why her flying monkey is the one who spreads the spin that Bethenny wants put out there. Jason defending himself against bogus charges from a vindictive shrew is not calling her a liar. It is telling the truth. It is not as though he is going on National Televisioon and calling her a liar or having his friend do it for him the way Bethenny does. If he was able to speak freely I am sure that there are many outlets that would be happy to do an interview. So either he can't because of a court order or he choose not to do so to avoid upsetting is daughter. I think he is showing admirable restraint. Too much restraint in fact.

 

I do want to cut Bethenny a break. She couldn't recognize the truth if it bit her on her surgically altered epidermis.

Edited July 1, 2017 by the killer

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

Jason defending himself against bogus charges from a vindictive shrew is not calling her a liar. It is telling the truth.

That actually hasn't been decided yet - that the charges are bogus. The trial is currently set for August. I've been very careful to not refer to Jason as being guilty in absolutes because until the trial, that's unfair. It's equally unfair, until the criminal trial is over, to say the charges are bogus.

[film noire]

1 hour ago, ZoloftBlob said:

I mean, I understand what you're attempting here -

"Attempting" -- sound so nefarious! ; )

Quote

offended to the point of calling her a liar

I'm not taking offense, I'm taking issue with the idea that Frankel is an honest broker & that her only flaw is hyperbole.

Quote

 because she said she was estranged from her father. They didn't talk for years, and no one in the family disputes that their relationship was poor. How is that not estranged? 

I gave an example of what I thought would be an honest comment about the estrangement vs spin  -- and that distinction doesn't seem to be landing,  so there's not much point in my repeating myself for the third time ;)  You believe she has been clear and honest about her past,  I don't.  I think everything out of her mouth (except when she talks about her love for Bryn) is either pure spin, spin control,  or a lie. 

Edited July 1, 2017 by film noire

[Celia Rubenstein]

2 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Yea. That's why I did it. Sometimes you think that big moments like will be the thing to change things and make things better. The romance and hope that comes with it all. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Doesn't seem like it did for Beth. 

I think that probably happens all the time.

I also think a lot of daughters who have terrible relationships with their fathers which could fairly be described as "estranged" have the old man walk them down the aisle just to avoid being embarrassed.  You don't want people whispering about why Dad's not there as you walk down the aisle on the arm of ... ?  

Case in point: I attended a young woman's second wedding, and Daddy Dearest was a no-show (her boss graciously agreed to do the honors).  And let me tell you, it was appalling how many people I heard speculating about the reason.  Is her dad sick? Is he off drunk in a ditch someplace?  In jail?  Does he not approve of her re-marrying?  It was a total distraction, and I can see why a bride might be willing to go to considerable length to avoid it on her special day, even if it means dealing with a father you have a horrible relationship with.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Celia Rubenstein

[smores]

I can speak for myself, the idea of who was going to walk me down the aisle was a nightmare.  My father had not been a great parent, so he wasn't my first choice.  Plus, choosing him would hurt my stepfather, who had been a far better parent (though still with issues).  Choosing my stepfather would have created a LOT of hard feelings on the side of my father's family (though my mother was gunning for it), and I was close to my grandparents on my father's side, so didn't want to hurt them.  My grandfather wouldn’t do it because it should be my father and while I have a brother, I'm older than him and at the time I got married, he wouldn't have wanted to do it.  So, who do you piss off?  Do you elevate someone to a place they shouldn't be based on relationship?  In my case, I just went by myself, I decided I was getting married and I was making an adult decision and no one needed to "give me away"  But, I can absolutely see how someone else might go with a father they were otherwise generally estranged from.  

[the killer]

2 hours ago, film noire said:

I think everything out of her mouth (except when she talks about her love for Bryn) is either pure spin, spin control,  or a lie. 

I think that is 1000% correct.

You see it over and over in these episodes. When she recaps things we have seen with our own eyes we see the spin that makes Bethenny the ultimate victim. It is quite tiresome actually.

That is not to say that the rest of the women don't spin as well. Most of the Housewives a selling a false narrative. Let's go to the videotape.

Ramona-sex kitten extraordinaire with all the men lining up to get some of that. Right.

Sonja still getting invited to Gastard and P Diddy's Yacht. Okey Dokey.

Luann respectable married woman. Are you kidding me.

Dorinda sober and respectable widow and society matron. Not.

Carole super talented writer and political savant who is still as sexy and relevant as any twenty something. Not so much.

Tinsley a drunken hot mess in pin curls. OK I will give you that one but it is her first season and she doesn't know how to spin yet.

I think the difference is that they are all living a lie whereas Bethenny is a lie.

Edited July 1, 2017 by the killer

[RedheadZombie]

On June 30, 2017 at 11:39 AM, motorcitymom65 said:

Beth testified to it under oath. Could she have lied? She could have. But the conversation has largely turned into one of defense for Jason and Poppa Hoppy. I completely agree with Jel's excellent comment above. What difference would it have made were it Jason's equal home? Take Beth completely out of it and pretend that folks don't hate her (or think her in some cases equal to a serial killer as has been stated by one commentator). Would it ever be considered OK by anyone here if they knew of someone who did this to their spouse? If the spouse was conducting an actual business out of their home - a business that paid for all of the stuff, and their spouse decided that he and his father did in fact have the right to peruse the home in their underwear while business was being conducted, against the wishes of the other owner? If anyone's spouse did this specifically against their wishes, wouldn't most spouses be justified in being angered by this? I can imagine no world where my husband would do something like this if I asked him not to (well, he wouldn't do it anyway because he isn't an asshat). And it is just as much his home as it is mine. He can do what he wants, but he would never dream of acting in such a fashion. There is simply zero justification for it, and the very idea that there is some type of a justification being attempted is just another example of the fact that Beth is hated by many and that it wouldn't matter what Jason did, some will never be able to just say "yea, the dude was wrong about this". Because Beth can be awful in some ways. She is a narcissist. But that doesn't mean that nothing that Jason ever did was wrong, or that just admitting that something that Jason did was wrong means that folks cannot go right on hating Beth. 

MCM, you are being very unfair.  Grandad Hoppy was convalescing from an illness or medical procedure, and was given strict orders to wear sleeping garments 24/7, and air his junk out in front of anyone he happens upon in the home.   Poor Jason was simply showing solidarity by doing the same. 

And it certainly wasn't their fault the evil bitch used the apartment as an office.  I mean it wasn't as if the office had ever been there prior to that day.  As for the food, when one wanders into the kitchen in one's skivvies, why would a professionally catered meal, clearly prepared for a larger number of people, clue anyone into the fact that the noise of many voices and commotion would connote professional business was being conducted in an office that no one even knew about?

As to the innocent toddler exposed to glimpses of grandpa's balls, well no one has testified that the child was present.  After all, why would a younger than pre-school-age child be present in the very home her mother, father, and Grandfather were present?

And even if she were present, it is Jason's absolute right to expose his child in his home to his father's sleeping garments.  It's perfectly normal attire for older men to wear around young female children, and just proves what a close, loving family the Hoppys are.  Something Bethenny could never understand, due to her dysfunctional childhood.  

Anyway, even though this is perfectly normal and justifiable behavior, it never happened because Bethenny is a patholiogical liar, chronic user of hyperbole, psychopath.  In fact, she's worse than the biggest serial killers and mass murderers of our time. 

[film noire]

18 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

As to the innocent toddler exposed to glimpses of grandpa's balls

LOL 

Quote

  After all, why would a younger than pre-school-age child be present in the very home her mother, father, and Grandfather were present?

Because photo shoots involve noise/lights/ lots of anal retentive types perfecting very boring things fomr a child's viewpoint --  hard to nap or play in that atmosphere -- I think Frankel would send her off to a Mommy and Me class with the nanny so Bryn wasn't trapped in the middle of all that.  

Quote

And even if she were present, it is Jason's absolute right to expose his child in his home to his father's sleeping garments.

Like Mormons!

Edited July 1, 2017 by film noire

[RedheadZombie]

On June 30, 2017 at 1:42 PM, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

What if he told Bethenny his plans and she said "Fuck that, imma do what I want..." it could have gone either way.

What proof is there that they were seen by a house full of strangers? In answer to your question I would run and change. 

"Bethenny, the office must be closed today. Father and I are planning a day of lounging in our sleeping attire throughout the family quarters, per doctor's orders.  And don't expect any toilet flushing. We are convalescing after all."

Is Bethenny's house completely soundproofed?  Has Beth been known to speak in multiple voices, often simultaneously?  I have been at photo shoots. They tend to be loud, a bit of a commotion, and there's an unbelievable amount of equipment that is required.  Same for the professional caterers who bring in the food.  Does Jason know there's a functioning business office in his home. Does he know that irregardless of a photo shoot, there are staff who are in and out of the office?  Using the bathroom and experiencing thirst that possibly leads them to the kitchen?

[zoeysmom]

21 minutes ago, the killer said:

I think that is 1000% correct.

You see it over and over in these episodes. When she recaps things we have seen with our own eyes we see the spin that makes Bethenny the ultimate victim. It is quite tiresome actually.

That is not to say that the rest of the women don't spin as well. Most of the Housewives a selling a false narrative. Let's go to the videotape.

Ramona-sex kitten extraordinaire with all the men lining up to get some of that. Right.

Sonja still getting invited to Gastard and P Diddy's Yacht. Okey Dokey.

Luann respectable married woman. Are you kidding me.

Dorinda sober and respectable widow and society matron. Not.

Carole super talented writer and political savant who is still as sexy and relevant as any twenty something. Not so much.

Tinsley a drunken hot mess in pin curls. OK I will give that one but it is her first season and she doesn't know how to spin yet.

I think the difference is that they are all living a lie whereas Bethenny is a lie.

How come no one ever talks about Betheeny taking Kyle Richards sloppy seconds?  I mean they were so fresh that Kyle had left her make up remover behind?  Bethenny et al, roar over Harry and Luann, Tom and Sonja. 

I haven't seen anything that blows up Luann and Tom being happily married. Carole hitting on Luann's niece's guy, Carole hitting on David Foster.  There are separate sets of rules on this show. 

[film noire]

10 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

"Father and I are planning a day of lounging in our sleeping attire throughout the family quarters, per doctor's orders.  

Ten extra points for that "Father"  -- LOL.

Edited July 1, 2017 by film noire
no period at the end of my sentence.

[Celia Rubenstein]

3 hours ago, film noire said:

I'm saying her presentation of her situation was duplicitous. She didn't say (something like) "He walked me down the aisle, but it did nothing to help the estrangement", she said things intended to mislead people. As with everything Frankel says,  at core there is never truth, only spin.

I don't see how having Bethenny mention that having her father walk her down the aisle didn't help their estrangement would somehow make her comment about being estranged from him in the first place less hyperbolic.  It doesn't change the nature of her assessment of their relationship in any way.  

If she was exaggerating or lying when she said they were estranged, it would still be an exaggeration or lie even with your proposed addition to her comment.

 

1 hour ago, film noire said:

I gave an example of what I thought would be an honest comment about the estrangement vs spin  -- and that distinction doesn't seem to be landing,  so there's not much point in my repeating myself for the third time ;)  

I don't think the distinction you meant to make is being missed, I think it is not landing because the way you re-wrote Bethenny's statement doesn't really change anything about the nature of her comment.  It's not really a distinction at all. 

[RedheadZombie]

6 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

How come no one ever talks about Betheeny taking Kyle Richards sloppy seconds?  I mean they were so fresh that Kyle had left her make up remover behind?  Bethenny et al, roar over Harry and Luann, Tom and Sonja. 

I haven't seen anything that blows up Luann and Tom being happily married. Carole hitting on Luann's niece's guy, Carole hitting on David Foster.  There are separate sets of rules on this show. 

Maybe some here don't follow Kyle Richards?  I do, but had never heard this interesting revelation.  Have Kyle and Bethenny had sex with at least two other men in common (Pirate, Harry)?  Has Beth had sex with Kyle's sloppy seconds who had also had sex with another friend of K and B (Harry)?  It's not nearly as gross because hey aren't cast mates.  A comparable story to Lu's would be the revelation  that Pinky met and married Ken, who had been in the midst of dating Kyle, and had an ongoing fuckbuddy agreement with Eileen. 

As to your second paragraph, the story now is that Adam was Lu's niece's guy?  I feel sure they were broken up with the niece harboring wishes to hook back up.  Carole hit on Yolanda's husband?  I never heard about that.  Regardless, it's not an apt comparison.  Carole is not portraying herself as a respectable married woman, which was what the OP described Lu as attempting. 

[film noire]

3 hours ago, smores said:

I can speak for myself, the idea of who was going to walk me down the aisle was a nightmare.  My father had not been a great parent, so he wasn't my first choice.  Plus, choosing him would hurt my stepfather, who had been a far better parent (though still with issues).  Choosing my stepfather would have created a LOT of hard feelings on the side of my father's family (though my mother was gunning for it), and I was close to my grandparents on my father's side, so didn't want to hurt them.  My grandfather wouldn’t do it because it should be my father and while I have a brother, I'm older than him and at the time I got married, he wouldn't have wanted to do it.  So, who do you piss off?  Do you elevate someone to a place they shouldn't be based on relationship?  In my case, I just went by myself, I decided I was getting married and I was making an adult decision and no one needed to "give me away" 

Sorry you had such a kerfuffle around your wedding day, smores.

Quote

 But, I can absolutely see how someone else might go with a father they were otherwise generally estranged from.  

Sure -- but for anyone who asked their estranged father to walk them down the aisle -- did you then edit that out of your life story, every time you recounted the story of your estrangement from your father? (eta: especially as a public personality taking great pride in telling it like it is?)  "He walked me down the aisle, and I never felt so alone" is not removing him from the narrative (while also making it clear you remained estranged) and why she removed him  -- and all the other tweaks and edits and outright lies she's put into her grand life story -- from telling Ellen DeGeneres she was lost at sea, to the repeated implication she got where she is all by herself (when she had many a leg up through family/social circle connections) is where her truthiness and duplicity lie for me. 

Edited July 2, 2017 by film noire

[Celia Rubenstein]

11 minutes ago, film noire said:

Sure -- but for anyone who asked their estranged father to walk them down the aisle -- did you then edit that out of your life story, every time you recounted the story of your estrangement from your father?  

Well, if the estrangement had continued or worsened, yeah ... I could see leaving that specific detail out.  Because ... why include it?

I don't think a person is required to add a bunch of caveats or disclaimers to an extremely personal story in order for it to be a legitimate description of their experience, especially when it comes to a subject as painful or (maybe) embarrassing as having a terrible relationship with one's father.  I could see summing it up in basic terms, omitting a lot of specifics, and hoping the listener would be sensitive enough to accept my telling of my own life story without demanding I elaborate on details that are obviously painful. 

[bagger]

9 hours ago, KungFuBunny said:

Jill Zarin Truth cannon - she posted Congratulations on your Baby Boy on her FB page to Bethenny.

LOL

May I add in reference to B living with Jill (someone upthread said it and now it's bugging me) B did not live with Jill! She, one summer, when in the Hamptons working stayed in Jill's house. And in reference to Jill's assertion that Bobby put food in B's mouth I'm gonna call bullshit. That is all!

[zoeysmom]

19 minutes ago, bagger said:

May I add in reference to B living with Jill (someone upthread said it and now it's bugging me) B did not live with Jill! She, one summer, when in the Hamptons working stayed in Jill's house. And in reference to Jill's assertion that Bobby put food in B's mouth I'm gonna call bullshit. That is all!

Seven seasons later same deal-Sonja and Tinsley living together last season it was Luann and Sonja. Filming opportunities  The biggest difference being Bethenny claims to have made $7,500 her first season on RHONYC and claimed on the show she was trying to save money and stayed with Jill.   Bethenny later denied she was broke and had to stay with Jill.   (Good for her.) Personally, I think all these "roommate" situations are about someone staying with someone when the cameras are rolling..   I feel the same way about grown woman sharing beds with co-workers on vacation.  Grown woman making six figures doing the show-it is simply an assigned role. I will say I do think the Zarins were generous towards Bethenny.   Bethenny did thank them profusely in her book.  "Jill and Bobby Zarin you have changed my life forever and you are the family I never had."

[film noire]

7 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

I can only go by what Bethenny originally represented and that was her father moved away, due to her mother taking up with his best friend, who she later married.  Actually Bethenny later revealed she left college not even walking in her graduation to seek a career in Hollywood-where her father lived.  After some checking I discovered, Bobby Frankel did not want to winter/train his horses in Maryland and could not get space in Hialeah, FL so he moved to the west coast.  I don't think money was the issue in Bethenny's life as a child, there seemed to money for boarding school and good colleges, it just seems it wasn't enough quality time, hence the "raised by wolves" tag.  To me it sounded like her father wasn't making an effort to establish a relationship with her.  She claimed at one point the first time she was to go west to see him at age 10 or so, something happened (either she or he got sick) and the trip was cancelled and not immediately rescheduled. 

And (iirc) Bethenny lived with Bobby Frankel (after he left Bernadette) for about a year -- b/c Bernadette was so crazy -- and she only moved back when Bernadette married Bobby Frankel's best friend.