Bethenny & Jason: The Divorce Showdown

[BBHN]

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No. Bethenny is the one who uses her daughter as weapon in the continuing war with her ex. 

She isn't the one who mentioned Brynn with regard to Jason and his dad being in their underwear.

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I do think he is one keeping the child off of the show. Which is a very good thing. Because if Bethenny had her way I bet she would parade this poor kid in every episode.

It is possible they both are keeping her off the show.

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She should patent that. It would be a better brand for her than Skinny Girl.

I think SkinnyGirl is doing well enough for her. Too bad for Jason he won't be reaping much of Bethenny's success.

Edited June 30, 2017 by BBHN

[QuinnM]

Bethenny is at a beautiful resort right now.  Looks like maybe Mexico.  Laying about in the sun with the blue water.  So I don't think she cares about any of this right now.

[the killer]

15 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

Bethenny is at a beautiful resort right now.  Looks like maybe Mexico.  Laying about in the sun with the blue water.  So I don't think she cares about any of this right now

This is very true. A bitter angry nasty shrew baking in the sun is still a bitter angry nasty shrew. But hey. Your mileage might vary.

Is she there with another married guy? I confess I don't keep up with her latest ventures until it pollutes my TV screen.

38 minutes ago, BBHN said:

It is possible they both are keeping her off the show.

That seems very unlikely. Bethenny uses everything and everyone to make money. She pushes her brand into every episode she is in come hell or high water. I bet if Jason wasn't around and was stripped of his parental rights .........Bethenny would be filming Baby's first tattoo.........A skinny girl logo.

[motorcitymom65]

3 hours ago, the killer said:

You do it somewhere else because you are in a bitter conflict with your ex and you are bringing disruption to your home where your child lives. So maybe you should keep the chaos and disruption of a photo shoot out of the family home which has seen enough turmoil That would be smart. Not vindictive and passive aggressive but smart. So there is no chance that Bethenny will do it.

She never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity in her personal life.

The Commentator who said it has gotten weird around here is the smartest person on the forum.

Let me see if I have this straight: it would be easier for Beth to move her business activities away from the place where she conducts her business - the place where the money that Jason wants a heavy dose of is made - than for Poppa Hoppy to just put on some pants? Her business is there, and so is the business chaos that would come with it. Who is to say that there is turmoil associated with a photo shoot? Some craziness? Maybe. But the Hoppy's were more than welcome to squat somewhere else while it was going on if it was so traumatic for them. I cannot see how walking around in their underwear made the trauma any better for them. It doesn't sound like Beth used her business place for business because of any bitter conflict with anyone. It does sound like the Hoppy's behaved in the manner that they did because of their bitter conflict. 

[ZoloftBlob]

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Of course this entire scene rest exclusively on Bethenny's testimony without the benefit of cross-examination so I think it has no credibility whatever as she is a lying liar who lies. Put it in the same bag as being homeless, being raised by wolves and having never seen her father who didn't pay for her schooling.

So someone who uses figurative language is a lying liar who lies?

Whenever I see these examples, I get a little irked because it's holding Bethenny to a standard of behavior that the rest of us would never hold ourselves to.

"Homeless" - because she is a woman of some wealth, I thought that this was a poor choice but the actual facts were that she was not in a permanent living situation. She was going from hotel to hotel to rented space with no permanent place to settle in. That does mean she was without a home. Now, because she is wealthy, I thought it was a poor choice of words but I seriously ask - when she said this, did anyone really think she meant she was going to sleep on the street in a dirty alley? And were SHOCKED to discover she meant that she had no permanent residence and was moving from hotel to hotel?

"Never seeing her father" - its an exaggeration that we've all probably done. I've done it myself. When asked about my grandparents, I say "I never saw them growing up because of x,y and z" and per the criteria applied to Bethenny, I would be lying because I did see them on fairly random occasions. What I mean when I say "I never saw them" is that I never saw them in a meaningful way where it was anything more than a forced interaction in the family (funerals mostly). We all know Bethenny was in the physical prescence of her father as a child at times, but the relationship was clearly distant and they were apart a great deal.

"Raised by wolves" - I always love this being brought up because it seems to imply that some people here genuinely thought when Bethenny said this that she really meant that she was left in the woods with no supervision but a pack of wild wolves, and are incredibly incensed to realize what she really meant was that she was raised by a group of adults who were irresponsible and who didn't really teach her good relationship habits. I mean really, who here seriously thought "OMG HOW AWFUL BETHENNY SAID SHE WAS RAISED BY WOLVES! I WONDER WHAT HAPPENED TO HER PACK? WAS SHE THE ALPHA FEMALE? DID THE WOLVES DRIVE HER OUT WHEN SHE WAS UNABLE TO BREED PUPPIES WITH THE PACK LEADER????" and then insist Bethenny was lying about her childhood since she wasn't *really* raised by actual wolves. Its an expression of figurative language.

[Jel]

The Hoppynopantsgate Scandal of '13 is bringing me great joy!

I just wonder was it a quick, "oops, how embarrassing I'll go change" thing or if it was more a free wheelin' Seventies vibe?  

[Jel]

6 hours ago, the killer said:

It is certainly beyond gauche to be in your underwear in the kitchen in your own home but perfectly acceptable to stand around in your bra on National Television as well as urinating multiple times to be recorded by posterity. Now that some proper display of social norms right there.

Of course this entire scene rest exclusively on Bethenny's testimony without the benefit of cross-examination so I think it has no credibility whatever as she is a lying liar who lies. Put it in the same bag as being homeless, being raised by wolves and having never seen her father who didn't pay for her schooling. In other words it is in the big bag of bullshit that is Bethnny's bag of tricks. I think it is at best an exaggeration and more liikely a fabrication of a diseased and rancid mind.

I see the difference like this:

Bethenny feels it's not professional for Jason and dad to be in unders while she's trying to run a business, a business which i basiclly run off camera.  So his underpants appearance has a net negative effect on her Skinny girl business.

When she's peeing on tv -- as gross as that might be -- that IS her business, because she (as a reality star) is the job, the paycheck. So she feels she's enhancing her bottom line, her brand (bethenny Frankel) by "being real" or however she rationalizes her pee bucket. 

One's in direct competition with her professional image and one is an enhancement (for lack of a better term) of it. 

[WireWrap]

58 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

So someone who uses figurative language is a lying liar who lies?

Whenever I see these examples, I get a little irked because it's holding Bethenny to a standard of behavior that the rest of us would never hold ourselves to.

"Homeless" - because she is a woman of some wealth, I thought that this was a poor choice but the actual facts were that she was not in a permanent living situation. She was going from hotel to hotel to rented space with no permanent place to settle in. That does mean she was without a home. Now, because she is wealthy, I thought it was a poor choice of words but I seriously ask - when she said this, did anyone really think she meant she was going to sleep on the street in a dirty alley? And were SHOCKED to discover she meant that she had no permanent residence and was moving from hotel to hotel?

"Never seeing her father" - its an exaggeration that we've all probably done. I've done it myself. When asked about my grandparents, I say "I never saw them growing up because of x,y and z" and per the criteria applied to Bethenny, I would be lying because I did see them on fairly random occasions. What I mean when I say "I never saw them" is that I never saw them in a meaningful way where it was anything more than a forced interaction in the family (funerals mostly). We all know Bethenny was in the physical prescence of her father as a child at times, but the relationship was clearly distant and they were apart a great deal.

"Raised by wolves" - I always love this being brought up because it seems to imply that some people here genuinely thought when Bethenny said this that she really meant that she was left in the woods with no supervision but a pack of wild wolves, and are incredibly incensed to realize what she really meant was that she was raised by a group of adults who were irresponsible and who didn't really teach her good relationship habits. I mean really, who here seriously thought "OMG HOW AWFUL BETHENNY SAID SHE WAS RAISED BY WOLVES! I WONDER WHAT HAPPENED TO HER PACK? WAS SHE THE ALPHA FEMALE? DID THE WOLVES DRIVE HER OUT WHEN SHE WAS UNABLE TO BREED PUPPIES WITH THE PACK LEADER????" and then insist Bethenny was lying about her childhood since she wasn't *really* raised by actual wolves. Its an expression of figurative language.

 She made her childhood sound as bad as possible to garner sympathy from the viewers, something she learned when she was on MS show. She claimed her mom never threw her a BD party, she did and showed photos outing Bethenny as a liar, she claims she had no contact with or support from her father but he was the one paying her rent in NYC before she got the HW job, these are just 2 examples. She exaggerates to the point that it becomes a lie and she loves to aim those exaggerations at others to paint as nasty a picture as possible (her tirade on Luann last season is another example) and she stands by those nasty OTT comments with all the pride a Narcissist has. This is why many don't trust her claims against Jason and his family, where does the truth lie/end and the exaggerations begin?

I also don't think anyone here thought she was actually raised by wolves/homeless. They know she is blowing smoke up everyone's behind with these comments, trying to make herself look like the victim of all victims, that no one has had a childhood as bad as hers, that no one has ever had a divorce as bad as hers, no one has ever had fibroids bleed as bad as her, that no one ever had anything as bad as she has. At this point, I'm not sure that Bethenny even knows where that line is and I don't think she cares. 

Edited July 1, 2017 by WireWrap

[the killer]

32 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

"Raised by wolves" - I always love this being brought up because it seems to imply that some people here genuinely thought when Bethenny said this that she really meant that she was left in the woods with no supervision but a pack of wild wolves, and are incredibly incensed to realize what she really meant was that she was raised by a group of adults who were irresponsible and who didn't really teach her good relationship habits. I mean really, who here seriously thought "OMG HOW AWFUL BETHENNY SAID SHE WAS RAISED BY WOLVES! I WONDER WHAT HAPPENED TO HER PACK? WAS SHE THE ALPHA FEMALE? DID THE WOLVES DRIVE HER OUT WHEN SHE WAS UNABLE TO BREED PUPPIES WITH THE PACK LEADER????" and then insist Bethenny was lying about her childhood since she wasn't *really* raised by actual wolves. Its an expression of figurative language.

Everyone realizes it is hyperbole. Or using a more accurate term........bullshit.

Like just about everything Bethenny says about anything.

She is a lying liar who lies. She will just not put herself in jeopardy by doing it under oath. That is why this case will be dismissed. I can totally see Bethenny refusing to testify because of the "trauma it would cause my daughter." When the prosecution is unable to satisfy the disclosure requirements of the judge it will be thrown out of court.

Of course that is just my opinion and my prediction. Let's wait and see what happens.

[film noire]

1 hour ago, Jel said:

I just wonder was it a quick, "oops, how embarrassing I'll go change" thing or if it was more a free wheelin' Seventies vibe?  

Free wheelin' all the way, Jel -- Gramps rolled up to the craft table (really rolled, he was wearing roller skates) in his Woodstock tank top and whipped off his satin Hugh Hefner robe to reveal his manhood in a teardrop g-string -- even Jason looked away at that moment -- and then Gramps shouted "You crazy kids don't know shit about free love!" as he helped himself to all the egg salad (which would later glisten on his lips like Dorinda in one of her drunken snack-downs).  He sang  "You're So Vain" as he hoovered up the caviar toasts and then he shouted "Hey, anybody want SUMMA THIS?" -- which confused the now starving crew --  was he offering food or free love? -- and then it was all over, as if it had never happened: frankly, Bethenny was discretion itself on the stand, imo.

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 "OMG HOW AWFUL BETHENNY SAID SHE WAS RAISED BY WOLVES! I WONDER WHAT HAPPENED TO HER PACK? WAS SHE THE ALPHA FEMALE? DID THE WOLVES DRIVE HER OUT WHEN SHE WAS UNABLE TO BREED PUPPIES WITH THE PACK LEADER????" and then insist Bethenny was lying about her childhood since she wasn't *really* raised by actual wolves. Its an expression of figurative language.

THE LIE IS THAT SHE WAS RAISED BY COYOTES - DUH.

(Thanks for cracking me up with the wolf rant  -- have a drink from my craft table, @ZoloftBlob ; )

Edited July 1, 2017 by film noire

[WireWrap]

3 minutes ago, Jel said:

I see the difference like this:

Bethenny feels it's not professional for Jason and dad to be in unders while she's trying to run a business, a business which i basiclly run off camera.  So his underpants appearance has a net negative effect on her Skinny girl business.

When she's peeing on tv -- as gross as that might be -- that IS her business, because she (as a reality star) is the job, the paycheck. So she feels she's enhancing her bottom line, her brand (bethenny Frankel) by "being real" or however she rationalizes her pee bucket. 

One's in direct competition with her professional image and one is an enhancement (for lack of a better term) of it. 

Not really, Bethenny wants what she wants and she doesn't care who she has to use/step on to get it, be it her parents, her ex husbands or a bfs children. Everyone is a prop for her to use then discard without thought. How long before she does it to Bryn? 

[ZoloftBlob]

So when she says she was raised by wolves, if she's not lying about actually being raised by wolves, what do you think is the lie? That she really had a perfect childhood with parents who never made mistakes? Everything I've read and heard about her parents and stepdad bears out I've always taken raised by wolves to mean that she had an upbringing where the adults in her life didn't model good behaviors and it shows in how fucked up she is. Where's the lie?

So you don't think she was actually homeless, living in the streets. I agree that "homeless" carries a connotation and she could have said it better, but do you think the situation - moving from hotel to hotel, lacking a permanent base, etc, wasn't stressful and doesn't qualify as not having a permanent home?

As for her parents - yes, she's exaggerating, the same way my sister exaggerates about the awful things that happened in our children that I know aren't true or entirely true, or colored with anger. I think my question is, does anyone think Bethenny had a great upbringing where she hung out with her dad, and her mom, and her stepdad and things were cheerful and good always? Because honestly, everyone involved has been relatively honest about how things weren't perfect.

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Thanks for cracking me up with the wolf rant  -- have a drink from my craft table, @ZoloftBlob ; )

Oooh free booze!

(strips down to panties and bra and saunters by every single poster on her way as this is a totally normal and comfortable thing to do in one's own forum)

[WireWrap]

23 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

So when she says she was raised by wolves, if she's not lying about actually being raised by wolves, what do you think is the lie? That she really had a perfect childhood with parents who never made mistakes? Everything I've read and heard about her parents and stepdad bears out I've always taken raised by wolves to mean that she had an upbringing where the adults in her life didn't model good behaviors and it shows in how fucked up she is. Where's the lie?

So you don't think she was actually homeless, living in the streets. I agree that "homeless" carries a connotation and she could have said it better, but do you think the situation - moving from hotel to hotel, lacking a permanent base, etc, wasn't stressful and doesn't qualify as not having a permanent home?

As for her parents - yes, she's exaggerating, the same way my sister exaggerates about the awful things that happened in our children that I know aren't true or entirely true, or colored with anger. I think my question is, does anyone think Bethenny had a great upbringing where she hung out with her dad, and her mom, and her stepdad and things were cheerful and good always? Because honestly, everyone involved has been relatively honest about how things weren't perfect.

Oooh free booze!

(strips down to panties and bra and saunters by every single poster on her way as this is a totally normal and comfortable thing to do in one's own forum)

No, I'm sure Bethenny had a less than stellar childhood but I doubt it was as bad as she tries to make it sound like. I am also sure she got hugs and kisses from all 3 parents/step as she was growing up but she refuses to admit it. She constantly paints her childhood as all darkness and no light, all pain and no love and I do not buy it, I really don't. IMO, Bethenny is a true narcissist, and because of that she can not admit to the truth, she can not let anyone else have the spotlight or the sympathy, it has to be all hers, only hers. Nothing is ever her fault, someone else always "makes" her "go there", she is never responsible for her own reprehensible behavior, never ever.  

Oh and she did have a home, a home that no one else was living in, her Hamptons home. She could have easily had that photo shoot there and away from Jason/his family but................................ Instead, she chose to stick it to him and possible, he to her. LOL

Edited July 1, 2017 by WireWrap

[connieinnc]

22 hours ago, breezy424 said:

Do you have a link for that.  I can't find anything that says the people managing the shoot were there at the time.

Heck, if food is brought into my home for whatever reason, I have every right to graze it.  Was there a sign that said 'crew only'?

Not directly specifically at you but what is the difference between Jason and his father supposedly in their skivvies in Jason's home and Beth parading around just wearing a bra and pants?  On national TV.  And please, it was the marital home at the time and Jason had every right to be there as well as his invited guests - his parents. Who BTW are his child's grandparents.

Was Bethenney at an event for Jason's business? That is the difference between the Hoppy men walking around in just their undergarments and Ms Frankel in hers.

[ZoloftBlob]

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Oh and she did have a home, a home that no one else was living in, her Hamptons home. She could have easily had that photo shoot there and away from Jason/his family but................................ Instead, she chose to stick it to him and possible, he to her. LOL

Just as Papa Hoppy had a home to live in, right? And didn't need to be staying with Jason? And Jason was separated from his wife and his parents seem like the sort who would be happy to have him there. Sure, it's a couple hours drive, but that's about the same amount of time you're proposing Bethenny send the NYC based folks out to her place in the Hamptons to do a photoshoot so...

And did she have the Hamptons home at the time of the photoshoot?

[QuinnM]

1 minute ago, ZoloftBlob said:

And did she have the Hamptons home at the time of the photoshoot?

The Hampton place did not have the 6 ft logo over the white bar.

[ZoloftBlob]

So the Hamptons house would not have been ok for the photo shoot, gotcha.

(continues drinking and snarfing down bagels and lox while wearing underpants and bra.)

Edited July 1, 2017 by ZoloftBlob

[motorcitymom65]

45 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

So when she says she was raised by wolves, if she's not lying about actually being raised by wolves, what do you think is the lie? That she really had a perfect childhood with parents who never made mistakes? Everything I've read and heard about her parents and stepdad bears out I've always taken raised by wolves to mean that she had an upbringing where the adults in her life didn't model good behaviors and it shows in how fucked up she is. Where's the lie?

So you don't think she was actually homeless, living in the streets. I agree that "homeless" carries a connotation and she could have said it better, but do you think the situation - moving from hotel to hotel, lacking a permanent base, etc, wasn't stressful and doesn't qualify as not having a permanent home?

As for her parents - yes, she's exaggerating, the same way my sister exaggerates about the awful things that happened in our children that I know aren't true or entirely true, or colored with anger. I think my question is, does anyone think Bethenny had a great upbringing where she hung out with her dad, and her mom, and her stepdad and things were cheerful and good always? Because honestly, everyone involved has been relatively honest about how things weren't perfect.

 

Really well articulated. This kind of gets to the heart of it. Folks always talks about how much she lies. Beth is big on hyperbole. And she exaggerates. But we know that. We have always known that. She doesn't try to mask it. No, of course she wasn't raised by wolves. We know that. But it was clearly horrible. Her mother is clearly horrible. Her Step dad didn't deny that it was all horrible when she met with him a few seasons ago. People cannot let it be true that it was horrible because if it was in fact horrible it could be possible that there is a reason that Beth is who she is. And no one wants that to be possible. Some talk about worrying for Brynn because of Beth, which is saying that the way you are raised can seriously fuck you up. Many don't want for Beth to have any excuse for being fucked up. So it must not have really been that bad. 

The homeless thing was insensitive I thought. But it wasn't like she was trying to lie to us or to trick us. She said she had fancy hotels to stay in and an apartment that was being renovated. We saw her Hampton's home, so it wasn't like she was trying to lie to us about having a roof over her head. She kind of assumed we were smart enough to know that she wasn't actually homeless, but she felt like she didn't have a real home to raise her daughter in. Just like when I say I am hungry enough to eat a horse. I am assuming that people know I am not really going to do that. I am so glad that every single phrase I utter is not researched, analyzed for photographic evidence to the contrary, and just basically taken apart bit by bit to find a potential falsehood. 

[WireWrap]

3 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Really well articulated. This kind of gets to the heart of it. Folks always talks about how much she lies. Beth is big on hyperbole. And she exaggerates. But we know that. We have always known that. She doesn't try to mask it. No, of course she wasn't raised by wolves. We know that. But it was clearly horrible. Her mother is clearly horrible. Her Step dad didn't deny that it was all horrible when she met with him a few seasons ago. People cannot let it be true that it was horrible because if it was in fact horrible it could be possible that there is a reason that Beth is who she is. And no one wants that to be possible. Some talk about worrying for Brynn because of Beth, which is saying that the way you are raised can seriously fuck you up. Many don't want for Beth to have any excuse for being fucked up. So it must not have really been that bad. 

The homeless thing was insensitive I thought. But it wasn't like she was trying to lie to us or to trick us. She said she had fancy hotels to stay in and an apartment that was being renovated. We saw her Hampton's home, so it wasn't like she was trying to lie to us about having a roof over her head. She kind of assumed we were smart enough to know that she wasn't actually homeless, but she felt like she didn't have a real home to raise her daughter in. Just like when I say I am hungry enough to eat a horse. I am assuming that people know I am not really going to do that. I am so glad that every single phrase I utter is not researched, analyzed for photographic evidence to the contrary, and just basically taken apart bit by bit to find a potential falsehood. 

Well, then you agree with me, that you can't take anything she says at face value. She exaggerates things much of the time so you have to ask what is the truth and what is exaggeration. I go 1 step further and question if her exaggerations have gotten to the point of becoming lies because she stretches the truth too far and too often IMO.

[Otherkate]

1 hour ago, motorcitymom65 said:

The Commentator who said it has gotten weird around here is the smartest person on the forum.

That was me! Then I went away for a few days and came back to convos about Jason and his pop potentially walking around in their underwear for medical reasons and so on and whoooo boy. What a ride!

It's hard for me to get too bent out of shape about the boxers thing because it's so absurd that I can't stop laughing when I think about it. I imagine my dad and brother and ponder what circumstance would lead the two of them to ever wander around in their boxers together and it just gets too hilarious. Add in grazing on food at a craft services table together whilst in said boxers, and I'm done for. 

[the killer]

2 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Well, then you agree with me, that you can't take anything she says at face value. She exaggerates things much of the time so you have to ask what is the truth and what is exaggeration. I go 1 step further and question if her exaggerations have gotten to the point of becoming lies because she stretches the truth too far and too often IMO.

She stretches the truth so far it rips apart like Dorinda's favorite nightgown when Sonja stuffs herself into it.

[motorcitymom65]

1 minute ago, WireWrap said:

Well, then you agree with me, that you can't take anything she says at face value. She exaggerates things much of the time so you have to ask what is the truth and what is exaggeration. I go 1 step further and question if her exaggerations have gotten to the point of becoming lies because she stretches the truth too far and too often IMO.

I don't agree that you cannot take anything that she says at face value. But then, I exaggerate a lot. I am never just hungry. Or just tired. Or just hot. Or just pissed. I didn't just have a bad childhood, or get a bad haircut, or have a headache. It is always to the great extreme. More horrendous than anything ever felt by any person ever. I am kind of famous for this trait. Because people that I know understand this about me. But I don't do it all the time, and not about things that matter. I don't do it at work with clients, or with people who don't get me. I wouldn't do it under oath. Because I am not a liar. I exaggerate. There is a really huge difference. 

[motorcitymom65]

29 minutes ago, Otherkate said:

That was me! Then I went away for a few days and came back to convos about Jason and his pop potentially walking around in their underwear for medical reasons and so on and whoooo boy. What a ride!

It's hard for me to get too bent out of shape about the boxers thing because it's so absurd that I can't stop laughing when I think about it. I imagine my dad and brother and ponder what circumstance would lead the two of them to ever wander around in their boxers together and it just gets too hilarious. Add in grazing on food at a craft services table together whilst in said boxers, and I'm done for. 

God, your post made me laugh so hard. Now I am trying to imagine what would make my male kinfolk walk around like that (and some of them are batshit crazy in a whole host of ways) and I simply cannot picture it. 

Hey, my guess is it will get even crazier. Come back in a few days and someone will maybe have said that perhaps they were dressed like that on the advice of their lawyer, and they were helpless to refuse. 

[WireWrap]

5 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I don't agree that you cannot take anything that she says at face value. But then, I exaggerate a lot. I am never just hungry. Or just tired. Or just hot. Or just pissed. I didn't just have a bad childhood, or get a bad haircut, or have a headache. It is always to the great extreme. More horrendous than anything ever felt by any person ever. I am kind of famous for this trait. Because people that I know understand this about me. But I don't do it all the time, and not about things that matter. I don't do it at work with clients, or with people who don't get me. I wouldn't do it under oath. Because I am not a liar. I exaggerate. There is a really huge difference. 

This is where you and Bethenny differ! Bethenny does it all the time about everything.

[film noire]

Quote

Because I am not a liar. I exaggerate. There is a really huge difference. 

There is a big difference -- and Frankel is not just an exaggerator, she's a liar -- maybe we need to make up a master list of her lies, so we don't keep looping around this?

 Off the top of my head: her step dad did not blow her off for years, he paid her rent; she did not have a childhood devoid of family dinners, birthday parties, or family vacations, there are dozens of photographs showing otherwise. She was not lost at sea, and she either did/did not have an eating disorder based on which year/interview you're reading.

[zoeysmom]

3 hours ago, QuinnM said:

Bethenny is at a beautiful resort right now.  Looks like maybe Mexico.  Laying about in the sun with the blue water.  So I don't think she cares about any of this right now.

So much for the material emotional or mental harm.  She seems to bounce back quite nicely.  

[OnceSane]

Knock it off.  Snark the Bethenney and Jason, not each other.

[breezy424]

Well, here I go again with the reminder of what Beth has said on the matter:

“His father would be at the apartment in his underwear and a tank top,” Frankel said, recounting one incident where Hoppy and his dad both emerged in their skivvies when she was having a photo shoot done at the Tribeca pad to help themselves to the crew’s buffet.

That's all we've got.  That's it.  Not Jason and his dad were walking around the apartment in their underwear in front of the camera crew.  Heck, we don't even know if the camera crew was there at the time.  We pretty much know jack. 

But this is Beth's MO.  She gives just enough info for people to 'speculate' and let imaginations go places.  It's like when she was in Miami and was about to see her stepfather.  She says that her step dad 'attacked' her when she was 19.  Just enough info to 'speculate'.  Attack?  Hm.  Did he beat her up?  Did he push her?  Did he slap her?  Did he punch her to the ground?  There's a big door here to a lot of things.  Why can't she say exactly what happened? 

[ZoloftBlob]

So, skivvies are underwear. So she's clearly saying they were in their underwear.

They emerged and helped themselves to the crew buffett. So, can we reasonably assume they emerged from a bedroom? I recall the apartment being fairly open so to get from a bedroom to the crew buffet would necessitate walking thru the apartment.

Why would there be a buffet for the crew if the crew wasn't there to eat it?

More seriously - if there was no camera crew there and Jason and Dad were in an empty apartment except for Betheny, why doesn't Jason offer that up?

[diadochokinesis]

7 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

Well, here I go again with the reminder of what Beth has said on the matter:

“His father would be at the apartment in his underwear and a tank top,” Frankel said, recounting one incident where Hoppy and his dad both emerged in their skivvies when she was having a photo shoot done at the Tribeca pad to help themselves to the crew’s buffet.

That's all we've got.  That's it.  Not Jason and his dad were walking around the apartment in their underwear in front of the camera crew.  Heck, we don't even know if the camera crew was there at the time.  We pretty much know jack. 

But this is Beth's MO.  She gives just enough info for people to 'speculate' and let imaginations go places.  It's like when she was in Miami and was about to see her stepfather.  She says that her step dad 'attacked' her when she was 19.  Just enough info to 'speculate'.  Attack?  Hm.  Did he beat her up?  Did he push her?  Did he slap her?  Did he punch her to the ground?  There's a big door here to a lot of things.  Why can't she say exactly what happened? 

 

Ok, let's break it down...   "Recounting one incident where Hoppy and his dad both emerged in their skivvies when she was having a photo shoot done at the Tribeca pad to help themselves to the crew's buffet."

1) The use of the word "when" is used to state that it was during the photo shoot. It is a temporal orientation signifier. 

2) "To help themselves to the crew's buffet." Why would the buffet be there if the crew isn't? The buffet was for the crew. These things are typically set up not long before a shoot and taken down afterwards. 

Here is my big question though from previous discussion in this thread. Why does Bethenny having peed on camera excuse the incident with Hoppy and his dad? From my best recall, the last time she peed on camera was at her wedding so 6 years ago. Why does an incident from 6 years ago excuse behavior that happened 1-2 years ago? Is my mom the only one that taught me that 2 wrongs don't make a right? Also, whether or not workers were in the apartment is just an attempt at deflection. The fact of the matter is that Bryn was there. Now, her father being in his underwear around her could possibly be seen as acceptable (although it wouldn't fly in my house). However, her grandfather in his underwear would be unacceptable by most people. My father-in-law and my father both get dressed or have on proper pajamas before they come downstairs when they are visiting. There is no reason why they should be wearing underwear around the house. I worked in home health for 5 years and my patients would even get dressed before I came and most of them were bedbound!

Is Bethenny perfect?  No.  I don't think anybody thinks she is. However, her past mistakes don't excuse everything that Hoppy has done. 

[WireWrap]

1 minute ago, ZoloftBlob said:

So, skivvies are underwear. So she's clearly saying they were in their underwear.

They emerged and helped themselves to the crew buffett. So, can we reasonably assume they emerged from a bedroom? I recall the apartment being fairly open so to get from a bedroom to the crew buffet would necessitate walking thru the apartment.

Why would there be a buffet for the crew if the crew wasn't there to eat it?

More seriously - if there was no camera crew there and Jason and Dad were in an empty apartment except for Betheny, why doesn't Jason offer that up?

Jason hasn't said word 1 about anything. He has kept his mouth closed to interviews unlike his ex wife who trashes him whenever any one asks about their divorce. Say what you want about Jason, he has that in his favor, he is not trashing his ex. 

[ZoloftBlob]

"I didn't wander around my home in front of guests in my underwear" is not trashing his ex. Particularly if she is *lying*.

Not defending oneself against an accusation is usually an admission of guilt. He's also, thru his attorney, clearly stating his ex is lying about the current accusations for which he's about to be tried so he's not adverse to trashing his ex to defend himself.

Edited July 1, 2017 by ZoloftBlob

[WireWrap]

2 minutes ago, diadochokinesis said:

Ok, let's break it down...   "Recounting one incident where Hoppy and his dad both emerged in their skivvies when she was having a photo shoot done at the Tribeca pad to help themselves to the crew's buffet."

1) The use of the word "when" is used to state that it was during the photo shoot. It is a temporal orientation signifier. 

2) "To help themselves to the crew's buffet." Why would the buffet be there if the crew isn't? The buffet was for the crew. These things are typically set up not long before a shoot and taken down afterwards. 

Here is my big question though from previous discussion in this thread. Why does Bethenny having peed on camera excuse the incident with Hoppy and his dad? From my best recall, the last time she peed on camera was at her wedding so 6 years ago. Why does an incident from 6 years ago excuse behavior that happened 1-2 years ago? Is my mom the only one that taught me that 2 wrongs don't make a right? Also, whether or not workers were in the apartment is just an attempt at deflection. The fact of the matter is that Bryn was there. Now, her father being in his underwear around her could possibly be seen as acceptable (although it wouldn't fly in my house). However, her grandfather in his underwear would be unacceptable by most people. My father-in-law and my father both get dressed or have on proper pajamas before they come downstairs when they are visiting. There is no reason why they should be wearing underwear around the house. I worked in home health for 5 years and my patients would even get dressed before I came and most of them were bedbound!

Is Bethenny perfect?  No.  I don't think anybody thinks she is. However, her past mistakes don't excuse everything that Hoppy has done. 

First, Bethenny peed on camera her first season back. It was on the limo ride to the casino by the side of the road, so not so long ago. LOL

Second, it doesn't excuse anything Jason/his father may have done in the apartment but it makes Bethenny's outrage about guys in boxers/T shirts in the home BS. Also, we have to buy into Bethenny's changing stories about what happened and we have to believe she isn't exaggerating or lying about what happened to begin with. For me, that is too much to ask, I don't believe what she says because she exaggerates all the time, to the point that her stories contain very little, if any, truth in them. 

[breezy424]

7 minutes ago, diadochokinesis said:

Ok, let's break it down...   "Recounting one incident where Hoppy and his dad both emerged in their skivvies when she was having a photo shoot done at the Tribeca pad to help themselves to the crew's buffet."

1) The use of the word "when" is used to state that it was during the photo shoot. It is a temporal orientation signifier. 

2) "To help themselves to the crew's buffet." Why would the buffet be there if the crew isn't? The buffet was for the crew. These things are typically set up not long before a shoot and taken down afterwards. 

Here is my big question though from previous discussion in this thread. Why does Bethenny having peed on camera excuse the incident with Hoppy and his dad? From my best recall, the last time she peed on camera was at her wedding so 6 years ago. Why does an incident from 6 years ago excuse behavior that happened 1-2 years ago? Is my mom the only one that taught me that 2 wrongs don't make a right? Also, whether or not workers were in the apartment is just an attempt at deflection. The fact of the matter is that Bryn was there. Now, her father being in his underwear around her could possibly be seen as acceptable (although it wouldn't fly in my house). However, her grandfather in his underwear would be unacceptable by most people. My father-in-law and my father both get dressed or have on proper pajamas before they come downstairs when they are visiting. There is no reason why they should be wearing underwear around the house. I worked in home health for 5 years and my patients would even get dressed before I came and most of them were bedbound!

Is Bethenny perfect?  No.  I don't think anybody thinks she is. However, her past mistakes don't excuse everything that Hoppy has done. 

This is Bethenny.  I don't think she's about the temporal orientation signifier.  The photo shoot may well have been over or hadn't even started.  How about Jason and his father walked into the room while the crew was in the room doing a photo shoot if that's what happened.  She's so vague...on purpose IMO.

Actually the last incident of 'peeing'...  Yeah, I can't believe we're talking about it but it did happened two (?) seasons ago when they were on their way to Atlantic City.  They were a couple of miles from Smithville, NJ (you could see the sign in the background) where there are public restrooms but she had to have the driver pull over.  Heck.  Is she four?  Plan ahead so you don't get to that point.

Again, we don't have any more info on Skivvygate than what Beth has said.  And it's pretty vague IMO.

And another again, we've seen Beth in all degrees of undress but because she's on a reality show, that's ok.  Heck, on BEA there was an instance when she was with her staff and she was wearing a white tank top with no bra that was basically see through.  Jason asked her to go change.

[WireWrap]

12 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

"I didn't wander around my home in front of guests in my underwear" is not trashing his ex. Particularly if she is *lying*.

Not defending oneself against an accusation is usually an admission of guilt. He's also, thru his attorney, clearly stating his ex is lying about the current accusations for which he's about to be tried so he's not adverse to trashing his ex to defend himself.

Wrong, it would be the same as calling her a liar. Jason did not have a chance to defend himself to these accusations or have his lawyer question her because as soon as Bethenny testified, she asked for a break and then settled. Of course he could have refused and pursued this by forcing her to answer his lawyer and take the stand himself outing her dirty laundry but that would only hurt their daughter in the long run by delaying an agreement/end to the custody battle. But I guess for some, that would be a small price to pay so that he could clear his name and to smear his daughters mother. I think he chose correctly but YMMV. 

[Atwood]

2 hours ago, film noire said:

she did not have a childhood devoid of family dinners, birthday parties, or family vacations, there are dozens of photographs showing otherwise.

When has Bethenny ever claimed this?

I don't want to get to personal here, but I was raised by two very dysfunctional parents, one of them with severe damage to the frontotemporal lobe which contributed to some absolutely insane behavior during my childhood. I've been physically beaten, locked in closets, had to deal with not finding my dog and having her be locked in a windowless trunk. Yet there's dozens of photographs (not taken at the time of said beatings) of family vacations, dinners and birthday parties. In most of them me and my sister *GASP* smile for the camera. In some of them the moment captured is genuinely a happy one. So I guess that means the first part never happened, or doesn't count.

The notion that a couple of photographs of good times means Bethenny is lying about her upbringing is laughable to me.  

Edited July 1, 2017 by Atwood

[BBHN]

Quote

That seems very unlikely. Bethenny uses everything and everyone to make money. She pushes her brand into every episode she is in come hell or high water. I bet if Jason wasn't around and was stripped of his parental rights .........Bethenny would be filming Baby's first tattoo.........A skinny girl logo.

Well, as you said, mileage varies and all that. I don't see that at all, but to each their own.

Quote

Let me see if I have this straight: it would be easier for Beth to move her business activities away from the place where she conducts her business - the place where the money that Jason wants a heavy dose of is made - than for Poppa Hoppy to just put on some pants? Her business is there, and so is the business chaos that would come with it. Who is to say that there is turmoil associated with a photo shoot? Some craziness? Maybe. But the Hoppy's were more than welcome to squat somewhere else while it was going on if it was so traumatic for them. I cannot see how walking around in their underwear made the trauma any better for them. It doesn't sound like Beth used her business place for business because of any bitter conflict with anyone. It does sound like the Hoppy's behaved in the manner that they did because of their bitter conflict. 

Well, it would have been way to hard and exhausting for those squatters to put on some clothes.

Quote

I see the difference like this:

Bethenny feels it's not professional for Jason and dad to be in unders while she's trying to run a business, a business which i basiclly run off camera.  So his underpants appearance has a net negative effect on her Skinny girl business.

When she's peeing on tv -- as gross as that might be -- that IS her business, because she (as a reality star) is the job, the paycheck. So she feels she's enhancing her bottom line, her brand (bethenny Frankel) by "being real" or however she rationalizes her pee bucket. 

One's in direct competition with her professional image and one is an enhancement (for lack of a better term) of it. 

Exactly.

Quote

Ok, let's break it down...   "Recounting one incident where Hoppy and his dad both emerged in their skivvies when she was having a photo shoot done at the Tribeca pad to help themselves to the crew's buffet."

1) The use of the word "when" is used to state that it was during the photo shoot. It is a temporal orientation signifier. 

2) "To help themselves to the crew's buffet." Why would the buffet be there if the crew isn't? The buffet was for the crew. These things are typically set up not long before a shoot and taken down afterwards. 

Broken down nicely lol

Quote

Why does Bethenny having peed on camera excuse the incident with Hoppy and his dad?

I still don't get the connection either.

[breezy424]

1 hour ago, ZoloftBlob said:

So, skivvies are underwear. So she's clearly saying they were in their underwear.

They emerged and helped themselves to the crew buffett. So, can we reasonably assume they emerged from a bedroom? I recall the apartment being fairly open so to get from a bedroom to the crew buffet would necessitate walking thru the apartment.

Why would there be a buffet for the crew if the crew wasn't there to eat it?

More seriously - if there was no camera crew there and Jason and Dad were in an empty apartment except for Betheny, why doesn't Jason offer that up?

I don't get what you're saying about Jason offering it up?  We only know about this because of Beth's testimony at the custody hearing.  Jason never got a chance to testify.  I'm confused.

A buffet for the crew doesn't mean that they were at there at the time.  A buffet can be set up before people arrive and it can still be there after they've left.  It's not perfect. 

[film noire]

1 hour ago, diadochokinesis said:

Here is my big question though from previous discussion in this thread. Why does Bethenny having peed on camera excuse the incident with Hoppy and his dad? From my best recall, the last time she peed on camera was at her wedding so 6 years ago. Why does an incident from 6 years ago excuse behavior that happened 1-2 years ago? Is my mom the only one that taught me that 2 wrongs don't make a right? Also, whether or not workers were in the apartment is just an attempt at deflection. The fact of the matter is that Bryn was there. Now, her father being in his underwear around her could possibly be seen as acceptable (although it wouldn't fly in my house). However, her grandfather in his underwear would be unacceptable by most people. 

1) Bethenny peed on the side of the road on camera two years ago. It's being used as a comparative measure for why two men in underwear and tank tops would be so terrifying to her in one professional situation, when she makes a living doing things like pissing for pay in another professional situation. All in a day's work for that one.

2) I've never seen any testimony Bryn was there (I doubt even Frankel would have her child in the middle of a busy photo shoot. The child can't nap, or be at play in that situation). But if Bryn were there -- and hanging out with these nefariously dressed men -- at eighteen months, all she'd care about was being with her Dad and Grampa, not what they were wearing. 

3) Craft services --  don't know how it was on Frankel's photo shoots, but on the vast majority of sets, that's in place before anybody turns up. 

4) If the crew members *were* there and shocked at the sight of Hoppy & Hoppy, then these people were clearly incapable of surviving a very rough and tumble business.  After gasping at the sight (and leaving the business that very day) they should have sent thank you notes  to Hoppy-Poppy & Hoppy-Grandpoppy for showing them they were too finely spirited to live through such a disturbing event as the fate that befell them: watching men in underwear & tank tops eating snacks. THE HORROR THE HORROR. 

Edited July 1, 2017 by film noire

[BBHN]

Quote

A buffet for the crew doesn't mean that they were at there at the time.  A buffet can be set up before people arrive and it can still be there after they've left.  It's not perfect. 

where Hoppy and his dad both emerged in their skivvies when she was having a photo shoot done at the Tribeca pad to help themselves to the crew’s buffet.

Sounds like Jason and Papa Hoppy helped themselves to the buffet (while in their underwear) while the crew was there.

They stalked that buffet good!

[film noire]

3 hours ago, Atwood said:

I don't want to get to personal here, but I was raised by two very dysfunctional parents.

(snip only for space)

(eta: I have no problem with anyone getting personal - the same thing went down in one of the BH housewives thread a few years ago, so you're in good company; )  Sorry you had an abusive, complicated and painful childhood (been there, done that, there is no fucking t-shirt). I hope you're in a good place (and if not, in a good place to vent and release). My point was that Frankel denied family events in her own childhood, not that I denied she had a hard childhood -- she did, and my issues with her are not about whether things happened but something else (and I'm not going to bore everybody by getting into the whole "lucky to have resources" discussion all over again). All the best to you on your journey.

Edited July 1, 2017 by film noire

[breezy424]

42 minutes ago, BBHN said:

Well, as you said, mileage varies and all that. I don't see that at all, but to each their own.

Well, it would have been way to hard and exhausting for those squatters to put on some clothes.

Exactly.

Broken down nicely lol

I still don't get the connection either.

Squatters?  Sorry but that was the marital home.  It doesn't matter who paid for it.  They were married.  And Jason had every right to be there.

Not directed to you but what if the situation was reversed?  What if Jason was making the bigger bucks?  I absolutely think that opinions would be different.  If marriage is about who has control because of monetary situation, that's pretty darn sad.  Oh, he or she is a stay at home parent, just a fireman or policeman.  Add in EMT, teacher, social worker and the other spouse is a doctor or whatever.  If marriage and control is about who makes the most money, it's a sad state of affairs.

[BBHN]

Quote

Squatters?  Sorry but that was the marital home.  It doesn't matter who paid for it.  They were married.  And Jason had every right to be there.

Sorry, is the term squatters-to-be less offensive? Future-squatters? Future-squatters-and-possible-home-swindlers?

Quote

Not directed to you but what if the situation was reversed?  What if Jason was making the bigger bucks?  I absolutely think that opinions would be different.  If marriage is about who has control because of monetary situation, that's pretty darn sad.  Oh, he or she is a stay at home parent, just a fireman or policeman.  Add in EMT, teacher, social worker and the other spouse is a doctor or whatever.  If marriage and control is about who makes the most money, it's a sad state of affairs.

And?

Jason wasn't a stay at home parent, he had a decent paying white collar job. Obviously not one that allowed him to live the life of luxury he did with Bethenny, but a still decent paying job. He is doing a bit better financially than those other examples you listed.

Marriage and money isn't about control, it's about compromise. And it is also sometimes realizing the higher paying job does sometimes need to be deferred to, not always, but in certain cases and examples, especially if it means putting on a pair of pants when a photo-shoot is happening, so that you can keep living in that lovely apartment you are going to fight for once the divorce begins.

Edited July 1, 2017 by BBHN

[film noire]

6 hours ago, lezlers said:

That therapist was freaking me out.  His expression was....odd.  

Amen -- he looked seconds away from whipping out a plane ticket to Guyana and a Go-cup of Koolaid.

5 hours ago, Jel said:

I am seriously in awe of your memory for these shows, WireWrap. You and Zoeysmom -- you both blow me away.

Two things I learned about ZM and WW in the RHOBH forum:

THEY REMEMBER EVERYTHING.

IT'S FUCKING BRUTAL OUT THERE WHEN THEY REMEMBER EVERYTHING -- AND YOU DON'T.

I just step back now when they call it. 

[Happy Camper]

2 hours ago, breezy424 said:

This is Bethenny.  I don't think she's about the temporal orientation signifier.  The photo shoot may well have been over or hadn't even started.  How about Jason and his father walked into the room while the crew was in the room doing a photo shoot if that's what happened.  She's so vague...on purpose IMO.

Actually the last incident of 'peeing'...  Yeah, I can't believe we're talking about it but it did happened two (?) seasons ago when they were on their way to Atlantic City.  They were a couple of miles from Smithville, NJ (you could see the sign in the background) where there are public restrooms but she had to have the driver pull over.  Heck.  Is she four?  Plan ahead so you don't get to that point.

Again, we don't have any more info on Skivvygate than what Beth has said.  And it's pretty vague IMO.

And another again, we've seen Beth in all degrees of undress but because she's on a reality show, that's ok.  Heck, on BEA there was an instance when she was with her staff and she was wearing a white tank top with no bra that was basically see through.  Jason asked her to go change.

And then a month ago there is this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-4540108/Bethenny-Frankel-flashes-skin-changing-car.html

Good thing there was a camera there to capture this. LOL. 

[film noire]

3 hours ago, ZoloftBlob said:

Not defending oneself against an accusation is usually an admission of guilt. 

 

 

(Not that I'm not loving you sauntering about the craft table  -- like Liz Taylor in "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof" -- all crackling dialogue and dissing on Big Daddy Hoppy :) 

Edited July 1, 2017 by film noire

[film noire]

3 hours ago, breezy424 said:

This is Bethenny.  I don't think she's about the temporal orientation signifier. 

You win the thread! ;)

[film noire]

2 hours ago, Happy Camper said:

And then a month ago there is this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-4540108/Bethenny-Frankel-flashes-skin-changing-car.html

Good thing there was a camera there to capture this. LOL. 

WTF? She looks like she's in a Lifetime movie about a drunk Mom hitting on a thirteen year old boy, Mary Kay Letourneau style. ("So you like geography and Hi-C Orange? DO YOU WANT TO SEE  MY LADY BREASTS?")

 

Edited July 1, 2017 by film noire

[zoeysmom]

What is relevant to me is how affected Bethenny was by the stroll to the buffet table by Jason and his father.   This was about her wanting sole custody-not about her.  It just seems from numerous examples not much fazes Bethenny when it comes partial nudity, peeing in public and we haven't even touched on some of the crude that comes out of her mouth.  I have never heard a woman with so many references to jocks, balls, dicks, cocks and not necessarily in a humorous way. 

I think a more important situation given the upcoming trial is does Bethenny really mean it when she claims she will never talk to someone again?  She has said it about her mother-then phoned her, Sonja and after reaming her out then seems to be all good with her, and now Ramona.  Of course there is Luann who she has repeatedly attacked publicly and claimed she would never speak to. She isn't just cordial with these  she invites them on trips.  So does she mean when she I will never. . . .  My guess and this is just a guess is in their settlement there was a provision for contact between the two to facilitate custody of the child.

From the most recently released information as to what Bethenny claims, and it is Bethenny's claim, the police weren't called out by neighbors because Bethenny received a 170 e-mails, or by the school due to Jason's behavior, it was Bethenny and her posse that presented at the police station.

Edited July 1, 2017 by zoeysmom

[motorcitymom65]

7 hours ago, film noire said:

There is a big difference -- and Frankel is not just an exaggerator, she's a liar -- maybe we need to make up a master list of her lies, so we don't keep looping around this?

 Off the top of my head: her step dad did not blow her off for years, he paid her rent; she did not have a childhood devoid of family dinners, birthday parties, or family vacations, there are dozens of photographs showing otherwise. She was not lost at sea, and she either did/did not have an eating disorder based on which year/interview you're reading.

Yea, you can find things like this in about anything that anyone says. My best friend is married to a total and complete d-bag. She likes to say that he "never" helps around the house. And he is the laziest person I have ever seen. But the fact is, I have seen him help her around the house. After begging, crying, threatening to leave, he has helped her before. I don't consider her a liar. I get her point. He likes to complain that they never have sex, and I don't begrudge him this. She hates sex. Has it only on the rare blue moon when she cannot take the demands any longer, and then she participates not at all, just waiting for it to be over. But they have 3 kids, so they have had sex before. So is he a liar? Not really. This is the kind of thing that people say. The kind of thing that everyone says. It doesn't negate their feelings about the thing, or the underlying truth about the situation.  Many of us believe that Ramona is always awful. To me she is and I am going to stick by this forever. But if pushed into a corner, I will say I have seen her be nice on the rare occasion, but I don't think I am lying (or even exaggerating). 

If Beth had a wonderful childhood with many happy memories and was making all of this up to seem more sympathetic than I would be on board. But everyone gets what she is saying. Can you find pictures of a dinner or a birthday? Probably. Doesn't mean they weren't steeped in drama and conflict. That they weren't rare in comparison to what she saw happening around her, what she thought was normal from watching her friends. It doesn't mean that she didn't feel unloved, scared, and ashamed by what was happening around her. 

ETA: Not to get political, but because it is early and I am watching the news, I will throw something else out there. I am watching a woman on TV who is part of the current administration defend the POTUS and the way he treats women by throwing out a few names of women that have benefitted from him over the years. Women he has helped or promoted. For verification that he loves women and is good to them. That he is not a misogynist. If he has hired them and promoted them, than the premise of him belittling and humiliating women must be all wrong. And I am sure they can find those examples if they look. But that won't change my underlying opinion of him and how he treats women. Just because someone can throw a thing or two out there, won't change all of the other stuff or the overall character of the person. OK. Political rant over. Now on to coffee (is it too early to add Bailey's to it??) 

Edited July 1, 2017 by motorcitymom65