Bethenny & Jason: The Divorce Showdown

[Leroux]

1 hour ago, LIMOM said:

Wendy Williams managed to stay on the air.

This speaks volume about Beth's likeability factor.

And she had Ellen producing the show. So there was a huge machine behind her.

 

Ellen was the motor behind asking Bethenny to move to LA due to the easy access to celebrities and resources. Had she been in LA her talk show might have been different, after all the tryout season of 3 months in LA did very well. Jason, of course, felt emasculated so Bethenny will never know if her show could have had a different fate. 

WW is not likable yet she still has a show, Katie Couric talk show also flopped, there are many likable talk show hosts that only have one season or two. 

[Leroux]

1 hour ago, LIMOM said:

It is quite simple. Beth is not likable

Tinsley so far has not lied and comes across as childish.

There is some serious B's fatigue as well.

 

 

She is not everybody's cup of tea, she knows it and has said it herself. She is in touch with reality and will not change to please the viewers and I respect that. 

I like Bethenny but more than like I admire her hustle. 

Bravo has these misogynistic shows to showcase the worst of these women, the most humiliating the moment the better the ratings and Bravo loves it, all franchises, Bravo thrives in the drama and bad behavior of these women.  Bethenny has the clarity of mind to come to the show as part of her business platform. 

Bethenny is IMO the only one who has played the game the way it was supposed to be played, she negotiated with Bravo adding the "Bethenny clause" where her salary would not be that big but Bravo will have no profit from any product she came up with, she took a huge chance, a huge bet specially for someone like her who needed the money more than the other HW, but it paid hugely. Nobody expected her level of success, if Bravo could have gotten their dirty paws on that BEAM deal, they sure would have scored a big hit. 

She uses the show to promote her products, she networks, she promotes, she has a purpose by being on the show, yes, there are moments that are embarrassing and humiliating but at least she knows that it is the price to pay for giving publicity to her products. 

Bethenny has made a fortune, more than any other Bravo HW, I am not saying she is the richest, just that she has made more money by being on Bravo than any other HW, this didn't happen by chance, it took a lot of hard work and hustle, so now that she can enjoy the fruits of her labor I am happy for her. 

[biakbiak]

37 minutes ago, Leroux said:

Jason, of course, felt emasculated so Bethenny will never know if her show could have had a different fate. 

 

Objecting to being forced to move across the country or having your child move across the country so that you would not be able to see her every other week because your ex-spouse wanted to move is not odd or unusual. If Bethenny really wanted to move to LA she could have but just like Jason she did not want to be away from Bryan for long periods of time so she found a solution.

[Celia Rubenstein]

7 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

Objecting to being forced to move across the country or having your child move across the country so that you would not be able to see her every other week because your ex-spouse wanted to move is not odd or unusual. 

But it's also not odd or unusual to move to California to pursue new opportunities when you have a promising, budding career as an entertainer.

I look at it this way: Jason knew what Bethenny's deal was when he married her.  He was happy to live off the proceeds of her career.  One might think he would have been more supportive of her attempts to branch out.  

Unfortunately, I think he was a little too enmeshed with his parents to ever contemplate moving that far away from them. 

[RedheadZombie]

20 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Bethenny talking about how she never wanted to marry Jason.  What a contrast to her bullshit "Place of Yes" book.  Jason this, Jason that, Jasone letting me love again, Jason doing the heavy lifting in the chold care department.    http://www.realitytea.com/2015/06/16/bethenny-frankel-knew-marriage-to-jason-hoppy-would-end-in-divorce-blames-andy-cohen/

My issues with Bethenny and her parents-maybe she felt under loved and under appreciated as a child and adult until she hit it big-her parents didn't sign up for the public treatment they received.  Instead of learning from it she seems determined to make Bryn live through it with her parents.

ZM, I really held off on quoting you because I've done it a lot recently, and I'm afraid it may feel personal.  

But I read this story, and have a completely different impression.  To me, Bethenny's words sound pretty typical. Her heart wanted to marry Jason, her brain intellectualized her doubts away, but her gut told her it wouldn't work. 

Beth was speaking to NYU alumni, and her advice is not to follow your heart or head, but to follow your gut. The rest of the melodrama was added by the blogger.

 

**Until the last ten years, I lived my entire life in the NW suburbs of Chicago (But in reality, I actually lived for 2-3 months when I was 20, in my aunt's St. Louis basement - I'm a liar, a manipulator, I don't usually tell the "whole truth", burn me at the stake).   Anyway, I was who I was and thought I was a perfectly polite person.  Moving to the Atlanta suburbs ten years ago, I've been told my honesty and plain speaking is a "Chicago attitude", which is clearly problematic in the often fake and pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, South.  I now realize the Midwestern "say what you mean, mean what you say" attitude is viewed as abrupt and even confrontational to the rest of the country (or at least in the south), so I apologize if my comments sound abrupt or too aggressive.   It is what it is. 

[biakbiak]

8 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

But it's also not odd or unusual to move to California to pursue new opportunities when you have a promising, budding career as an entertainer.

I look at it this way: Jason knew what Bethenny's deal was when he married her.  He was happy to live off the proceeds of her career.  One might think he would have been more supportive of her attempts to branch out.  

No its not unusual to move to LA, Jason doesn't have to support her dreams after they divorced anymore than she has to support his life. If he decided to move out of NY, I would also object. Nothing was stopping her from moving to LA she just couldn't take Brynn  she doesn't get extra rights just because she is in the entertainment industry. 

[motorcitymom65]

1 hour ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Bryn: How come I can't ever see you and Daddy at the same time anymore, Griftmaw?

Well Bryn, Daddy has to stay in New York and I have to stay in Pennsylvania.  We can't travel across state lines anymore because our ankle bracelets set off an alarm and your mommy will call the police to have us taken away and locked up.

Now pick up the pen, honey ... we need to finish this up so we can meet Daddy at the state line in an hour.

Funniest thing ever.

[Celia Rubenstein]

18 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

No its not unusual to move to LA, Jason doesn't have to support her dreams after they divorced anymore than she has to support his life. If he decided to move out of NY, I would also object. Nothing was stopping her from moving to LA she just couldn't take Brynn  she doesn't get extra rights just because she is in the entertainment industry. 

Sure, once you are divorced all bets are off. But didn't the whole move to California debate take place when they were still married? 

[biakbiak]

9 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

But didn't the whole move to California debate take place when they were still married? 

He eventually agreed to the temporary move to California for the pilot/tryout run when they were married. By the time she was actually going to start filming the talk show they were divorcing and that is when he objected to Brynn moving to California and the compromise of filming in NY was decided. The poster I was responding to was talking about how her show would have been different it was filmed in LA because the 3 month tryout was more successful than her actual show and said it was only because Jason felt emasculated that the show had to film in NY but by that time they were divorcing. 

[LIMOM]

1 hour ago, Leroux said:

 

She is not everybody's cup of tea, she knows it and has said it herself. She is in touch with reality and will not change to please the viewers and I respect that. 

I like Bethenny but more than like I admire her hustle. 

Bravo has these misogynistic shows to showcase the worst of these women, the most humiliating the moment the better the ratings and Bravo loves it, all franchises, Bravo thrives in the drama and bad behavior of these women.  Bethenny has the clarity of mind to come to the show as part of her business platform. 

Bethenny is IMO the only one who has played the game the way it was supposed to be played, she negotiated with Bravo adding the "Bethenny clause" where her salary would not be that big but Bravo will have no profit from any product she came up with, she took a huge chance, a huge bet specially for someone like her who needed the money more than the other HW, but it paid hugely. Nobody expected her level of success, if Bravo could have gotten their dirty paws on that BEAM deal, they sure would have scored a big hit. 

She uses the show to promote her products, she networks, she promotes, she has a purpose by being on the show, yes, there are moments that are embarrassing and humiliating but at least she knows that it is the price to pay for giving publicity to her products. 

Bethenny has made a fortune, more than any other Bravo HW, I am not saying she is the richest, just that she has made more money by being on Bravo than any other HW, this didn't happen by chance, it took a lot of hard work and hustle, so now that she can enjoy the fruits of her labor I am happy for her. 

She is a hustler and has made money. No one denied the fact, that her skinny girl brand is successful.

The show located in NYC did not stop the massive production machine behind her.

Did you ever watch her show?

it was rough. She talked over the guests.

She reminded me of Tyra.

the radio show was even worst. She bragged about bullshit. 

I listen to ANdy Cohen from time to time and while he is a total asshole, I still can stomach him more.

You know why?

because he is still in awe of what his life has become.

and no whining!

[WireWrap]

5 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Why does she need to give the complete story? Why do people want every single little detail? When some of those details don't mean anything to the narrative of the story to her? It is her story to tell.

There was a woman years ago - maybe 20 or more, I cannot remember - that was kidnapped and held for a few years. And no, just to jump in front of this, I am not comparing her to Beth. But the gal suffered the usual shit. Sexual assault, isolation etc. When she finally escaped, she told her story and of course it was horrible. Beyond horrible. When the abuser was arrested and interviewed, the nutjob talked about how he had tried to make it nice for her. He put up a Christmas Tree, they celebrated other holidays, even took her to an amusement park once when he had sufficiently made her dependent on him. She didn't talk about these "nice" things when she was taking the police though what happened to her because they didn't matter to her. She talked about the horrible stuff, because who the fuck cares about a Christmas Tree? But of course she was asked about it later, and in an interview that I read.The weird thing was, it was like somehow that made a difference. Like maybe she was leaving stuff out on purpose. She said that many people focused on this, and I can see from the perspective of trying to get into his head this might be important to a mental health professional. But the thing is, people who have had trying times and been through a lot don't always go into every little single detail because it becomes confusing for other people. How can this have been so bad if you also had that? How can your dad have abandoned you if he actually came to see you every couple of years and took you to nice places? Or paid for your college? People don't understand all of this and sometimes you don't talk about it because it is just too hard to explain. The story -the whole story - would take years to unravel and explain. 

I think that is what Beth does. To her, she was abandoned, or estranged, or whatever it was to her. The little details that others think important - that she saw him when she was 4 or 5 - aren't relevant to what she went through. And just because they are relevant to someone else, doesn't change her story. 

As I said in the post you quoted me, She doesn't have to spill all the details but if you are going to tell a story, tell the whole story and Bethenny does not. (by whole story I mean the one you are sharing, not your entire life story)

5 hours ago, Atwood said:

It's interesting to me that when it comes to Tinsley you talk a lot about the cycle of abuse, but you seem completely unaware of how it's mirrored in the dynamics behind parental abuse. Of course her mother wasn't uncaring ALL the time. That's why it's such a complete and total mindfuck. If she was just 100% awful all the time it would probably not have fucked her up as badly. You know, kind of like how a domestic abuser isn't awful all the time. I don't see you guys in Tinsley's thread calling her a liar by omission because she's not going into detail about that time Nico was thoughtful and drew her a bath because she was tired... Because it's not relevant to the topic discussed.

First, Tinsley has proof of her abuse, with Bethenny we only have her word. Second, Tinsley is getting help, Bethenny didn't and is stuck. Third, IMO, Bethenny brings up her childhood/parents in an effort to lessen her own ugly/nasty behavior towards others and I haven't seen Tinsley use her abuse to be cruel to others.

5 hours ago, film noire said:

I think she made the facts of her life sound worse, not the emotional state she was forced to live in ("forced" because she was a child and without options).  I don't think the things Frankel did made him a good father, but he also wasn't a deadbeat dad who walked away without a second thought. If she'd said "Living with him made me feel even more alone" or "So he walked me down the aisle, big fucking deal - here comes the bride and her emotionally distant father" or "He sent a ticket instead of coming himself" or  "My mother was a stone cold drunk -- birthday parties by Betty Crocked" -- that gives me both fact & feeling -- but why leave the audience with the impression that you never saw your bio father, and your life was so devoid of structure that your never had a single childhood event?  That's why she's an unreliable narrator for me now - and I understand lots of people aren't bothered by any of it, but I find it  -- and what I see as a larger pattern of deception -- troublesome,

I don't think I argued he was involved --  if I did, sorry, that was lack of clarity on my part -- I think I said he didn't disappear without a backwards glance. More a case of deadbeat dad vs deeply disconnected dad.

 

****************changing gears briefly***************

Happy 4th of July, you glorious bastards! 

Thank you, this is what I have been trying but failing to say. 

4 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

That doesn't explain why Beth's critics haven't claimed Tinsley is a liar by omission like they have about Bethenny.  

It does appear Beth is subject to a different set of rules.

See post above.

1 hour ago, RedheadZombie said:

ZM, I really held off on quoting you because I've done it a lot recently, and I'm afraid it may feel personal.  

But I read this story, and have a completely different impression.  To me, Bethenny's words sound pretty typical. Her heart wanted to marry Jason, her brain intellectualized her doubts away, but her gut told her it wouldn't work. 

Beth was speaking to NYU alumni, and her advice is not to follow your heart or head, but to follow your gut. The rest of the melodrama was added by the blogger.

 

**Until the last ten years, I lived my entire life in the NW suburbs of Chicago (But in reality, I actually lived for 2-3 months when I was 20, in my aunt's St. Louis basement - I'm a liar, a manipulator, I don't usually tell the "whole truth", burn me at the stake).   Anyway, I was who I was and thought I was a perfectly polite person.  Moving to the Atlanta suburbs ten years ago, I've been told my honesty and plain speaking is a "Chicago attitude", which is clearly problematic in the often fake and pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, South.  I now realize the Midwestern "say what you mean, mean what you say" attitude is viewed as abrupt and even confrontational to the rest of the country (or at least in the south), so I apologize if my comments sound abrupt or too aggressive.   It is what it is. 

Bethenny went so far as to blame Bravo/Andy for her marrying Jason. She said that she felt "pressured" into getting married and would not have gone through with the wedding had Andy/Bravo not done that to her. Oh, and Bethenny told Andy this to his face (he of course denied putting any pressure on her to get married) either on a reunion a couple of years ago or on WWHL. IMO, she really didn't want to get married, she wasn't in love with Jason but was afraid she would lose her own show if she didn't go through with it, so she married him to keep her job. Of course, once she got her Talk Show job, she no longer needed Jason, so Bye, Bye Jason.

[Jel]

11 hours ago, WireWrap said:

Well, he already admitted to hitting Bernadette on the show 2 years/seasons ago. Again, I do think she had a tough/rough childhood but I also believe she greatly exaggerated it for sympathy on the show. She uses it so that viewers give her a pass on her ugly behavior and now she is using her divorce/shared custody as her excuse.

Gah, WireWrap, it's like you're glossing over the domestic violence. If your dad beats the crap out of your mom, you get to claim a shitty childhood. End o' story! ( If you are required to call the police when you are little, that's shitty plus.)

She doesn't need to exaggerate anything.  If Bobby Frankel was even a half way decent father he would have done more.  Another period!

Bernadette's words speak for themselves. 

There's really no arguing she didn't have a lousy childhood, she clearly did (see above) -- so, it's either lousy or lousy plus. But if she's exaggerating it, then we'll drop back from lousy plus to just plain lousy.

[the killer]

That's it. I am convinced.  Bethenny had a lousy childhood.

Now she wants to pass it down to her daughter. Instead of trying to mitigate the process  of divorce and finding some mediation and coexistence she is trying to get her daughters father incarcerated. Some want to carry it over to the grandparents and have them locked up too.

Apple. Tree.

[ZoloftBlob]

If Jason committed a crime, then she should ALLOW it for Bryn's sake?

Seriously?

That's what Bryn needs to learn? When a man threatens a woman, that woman should really keep her mouth shut for the sake of the kids?

Wow. A woman who feels she was harassed is wrong to contact the police and should just put up with it. What next, maybe Bethenny should be the one arrested for Jason's public outbursts?

[Celia Rubenstein]

11 minutes ago, the killer said:

That's it. I am convinced.  Bethenny had a lousy childhood.

Now she wants to pass it down to her daughter. Instead of trying to mitigate the process  of divorce and finding some mediation and coexistence she is trying to get her daughters father incarcerated. Some want to carry it over to the grandparents and have them locked up too.

Apple. Tree.

I don't get how Bethenny is trying to pass down a lousy childhood to her daughter.  Seems to me like she is just trying to live her life but her ex is obsessed with "destroying" her and refuses to act like an adult. If anything is ruining Bryn's childhood, it's Jason's behavior. 

Bethenny is entitled to be free from Jason's harassment and if he pushes it to the point that the law must become involved to bring him under control, that's on him. Likewise the Grandma Hoppy.  If she broke the law she should be held to answer for it.  And that's on her.  

6 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

That's what Bryn needs to learn? When a man threatens a woman, that woman should really keep her mouth shut for the sake of the kids?

Yes.   The kids should always be put first.  THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!

Of course, in this scenario, I would think that putting the kids first would mean refraining from modeling how to be a doormat and let some asshole walk all over you, but that's just me. 

[Wendy]

"if you are going to tell a story, tell the whole story and Bethenny does not." - quoting Wirewrap 

Tinsley when talking about her divorce never talks about how the divorce was because she cheated on her husband Topper.  She also never mentions that the only reason why she got arrested was that she broke the law by violating a RO

Luann, when she talked about her marriage with the Count, failed to disclose that they had an open marriage. She also "forgets" to mention that her relationship with Jacques ended because she cheated on him with the pirate. 

Sonja when talking about her financial woes always "forgets" to mention that most of her problems started when she tried to weasel her way out of a legal contract. 

Carole when she talks about her wonderful friend Carolyn, she always forgets to mention the rumors of Carolyn's addictions. 

Dorinda conveniently forgets to mention that her relationship with John started only 4 months after Richard "the love of her life" died. She also never talked about that slimy guy trying to get her on the Tipsy Girl deal, 

Ramona refused to talk about cheating allegations while she was married to Mario, She also never mentioned that she was the most interested in closing the deal with the guy from Tipsy girl.  She has never mentioned a word about her Pinot Grigio wine being out of production. 

 

When it comes to telling their story, ALL of the Bravo HWs. not only NY but all of them are very selective with what they want to share, it is not only Bethenny, it is all of them. 

Edited July 5, 2017 by Wendy

[film noire]

23 minutes ago, the killer said:

 

Now she wants to pass it down to her daughter. Instead of trying to mitigate the process  of divorce and finding some mediation and coexistence she is trying to get her daughters father incarcerated. 

 

Well, but to be fair -- and I don't know if Jason stalked her, but if it's proven he did (still a very big "if" for me) - then Frankel not reporting him would be closer to what Bernadette did, so that's a way of her breaking the cycle.

Edited July 5, 2017 by film noire

[film noire]

14 minutes ago, Wendy said:

When it comes to telling their story, ALL of the Bravo HWs. not only NY but all of them are very selective with what they want to share, it is not only Bethenny, it is all of them. 

I think Selective = Not talk about X vs Duplicity = Talk about X in a misleading way. So if Radiziwill had said "Carolyn was actually a drug counselor" that's duplicitous, whereas saying nothing about the drug use rumours is selective. And if Frankel had said nothing abut her bio father, I wouldn't have an issue with that.

Edited July 5, 2017 by film noire

[motorcitymom65]

47 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Bethenny went so far as to blame Bravo/Andy for her marrying Jason. She said that she felt "pressured" into getting married and would not have gone through with the wedding had Andy/Bravo not done that to her. Oh, and Bethenny told Andy this to his face (he of course denied putting any pressure on her to get married) either on a reunion a couple of years ago or on WWHL. IMO, she really didn't want to get married, she wasn't in love with Jason but was afraid she would lose her own show if she didn't go through with it, so she married him to keep her job. Of course, once she got her Talk Show job, she no longer needed Jason, so Bye, Bye Jason.

I never saw her comments as blaming Andy or Bravo. What she said was that she was pregnant and that Bravo had retooled her new show (that was supposed to originally be a SATC type show about a single gal making her way in the world) into a show about her being newly married with a baby. She felt like she would be letting people down if she gave into her apprehension about the marriage.  I don't think it was blame, anymore than any person who has doubts goes along because the invitations are out, the florist and caterer booked with non refundable deposits, and guests already making travel arrangments. People have those second thoughts all the time, and so did she. She felt pressure to not let everyone down, which IMO is not the same as blaming them. 

[Jel]

14 minutes ago, film noire said:

Well, but to be fair -- and I don't know if Jason stalked her, but if it's proven he did (still a very big "if" for me) - then Frankel not reporting him would be closer to what Bernadette did, so that's a way of her breaking the cycle.

Hmm, Film Noire, I feel you're within reach here...can we pull you over from the dark side!? ;)

 I remember when you used to like and defend Bethenny -- perhaps your first instincts were correct.

Think about it!? Maybe?

[motorcitymom65]

56 minutes ago, Jel said:

There's really no arguing she didn't have a lousy childhood, she clearly did (see above) -- so, it's either lousy or lousy plus. But if she's exaggerating it, then we'll drop back from lousy plus to just plain lousy.

Lousy or lousy plus. I love this and am going to try to work it in wherever I can. 

[smores]

B saying she felt pressure due to the show would be the same as Luann (let's pretend she and Tom split up 2 years from now) saying, well, after the drama in Miami with the pics at the Regency and then us working through it, what could I do? I had already taken a stand, it was on the show, I felt like I had to go through with it.  That wouldn't be saying it's Andy's fault that she got divorced or that she went through with the marriage, but just that external factors did push her along with the "flow" when if it had never been on tv and the viewers were unaware, maybe they'd have postponed it for a bit and then quietly just called it off altogether.

[zoeysmom]

10 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I never saw her comments as blaming Andy or Bravo. What she said was that she was pregnant and that Bravo had retooled her new show (that was supposed to originally be a SATC type show about a single gal making her way in the world) into a show about her being newly married with a baby. She felt like she would be letting people down if she gave into her apprehension about the marriage.  I don't think it was blame, anymore than any person who has doubts goes along because the invitations are out, the florist and caterer booked with non refundable deposits, and guests already making travel arrangments. People have those second thoughts all the time, and so did she. She felt pressure to not let everyone down, which IMO is not the same as blaming them. 

The show was called, "Bethenny Getting Married?", I would say that she was allowed to express her apprehension about the marriage.  Bethenny flat out said she blamed Andy Cohen and he responded:  http://extratv.com/2015/06/17/andy-cohen-responds-to-bethenny-frankels-claims-he-influenced-her-marriage-decision/  http://www.realitytea.com/2015/06/16/bethenny-frankel-knew-marriage-to-jason-hoppy-would-end-in-divorce-blames-andy-cohen/ 

As nice as it sounds that Bethenny was to have a SATC type show, which it was suppose to focus on her dating life-she was knocked up. I would say she was lucky to have gotten the spin-off since the dynamic changed. 

Her recounting of history reinforces claims that Bethenny is far phonier than any she has ever accused of being phony.  From her mentions of Jason in her books and the acknowledgements-when does one believe her?  Do we believe when she says how in love with Jason she was?  Were we to question the 100 times she said she loved Jason on the show? Words matter.  This is someone who claims that she is emotionally distraught over some e-mails.  As usual it is all about Bethenny she rarely thinks of how this rewriting of history effects her child,  I believe it would have been far more honest to just say she had outgrown Jason and didn't need him anymore.   

She dreaded having her personal life on the show.   She has been in reality TV for ages and claims what you see is real.  Which is it? Which side of no holds barred Bethenny are we suppose to see?

[motorcitymom65]

6 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

The show was called, "Bethenny Getting Married?", I would say that she was allowed to express her apprehension about the marriage.  Bethenny flat out said she blamed Andy Cohen and he responded:  http://extratv.com/2015/06/17/andy-cohen-responds-to-bethenny-frankels-claims-he-influenced-her-marriage-decision/  http://www.realitytea.com/2015/06/16/bethenny-frankel-knew-marriage-to-jason-hoppy-would-end-in-divorce-blames-andy-cohen/ 

As nice as it sounds that Bethenny was to have a SATC type show, which it was suppose to focus on her dating life-she was knocked up. I would say she was lucky to have gotten the spin-off since the dynamic changed. 

Her recounting of history reinforces claims that Bethenny is far phonier than any she has ever accused of being phony.  From her mentions of Jason in her books and the acknowledgements-when does one believe her?  Do we believe when she says how in love with Jason she was?  Were we to question the 100 times she said she loved Jason on the show? Words matter.  This is someone who claims that she is emotionally distraught over some e-mails.  As usual it is all about Bethenny she rarely thinks of how this rewriting of history effects her child,  I believe it would have been far more honest to just say she had outgrown Jason and didn't need him anymore.   

She dreaded having her personal life on the show.   She has been in reality TV for ages and claims what you see is real.  Which is it? Which side of no holds barred Bethenny are we suppose to see?

But do you really think she blames Andy? I know she said that, but it sounded like she was joking. I don't think that she actually blames Andy Cohen for her getting married. She says a lot of other things led her down the aisle. That her friends were getting married, she loved the sex, she thought it was the right thing to do. Maybe you have to treat her like Trump. Take her seriously but not literally. 

[WireWrap]

42 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I never saw her comments as blaming Andy or Bravo. What she said was that she was pregnant and that Bravo had retooled her new show (that was supposed to originally be a SATC type show about a single gal making her way in the world) into a show about her being newly married with a baby. She felt like she would be letting people down if she gave into her apprehension about the marriage.  I don't think it was blame, anymore than any person who has doubts goes along because the invitations are out, the florist and caterer booked with non refundable deposits, and guests already making travel arrangments. People have those second thoughts all the time, and so did she. She felt pressure to not let everyone down, which IMO is not the same as blaming them. 

Those were her words and she was quite clear about them when she said it and Andy was upset that she said it.

3 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

But do you really think she blames Andy? I know she said that, but it sounded like she was joking. I don't think that she actually blames Andy Cohen for her getting married. She says a lot of other things led her down the aisle. That her friends were getting married, she loved the sex, she thought it was the right thing to do. Maybe you have to treat her like Trump. Take her seriously but not literally. 

Yes, I do, I think she wants to blame someone else for her decision instead of owning it and she went into detail. Honestly, Bethenny likes to be able to blame others for what she says/does, from blaming Andy/Bravo for her marriage to Jason to her blaming Luann for "making me go there" when she attacked Luann last season. Nothing is ever her fault, someone else is always to blame. Well, except her SKG, then she claims she did it all on her own without any help from anyone, despite facts to the opposite. LOL 

[zoeysmom]

7 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

But do you really think she blames Andy? I know she said that, but it sounded like she was joking. I don't think that she actually blames Andy Cohen for her getting married. She says a lot of other things led her down the aisle. That her friends were getting married, she loved the sex, she thought it was the right thing to do. Maybe you have to treat her like Trump. Take her seriously but not literally. 

She seemed to blame everyone.  You don't make statements like such as the Andy comment in the context of a serious speech if you don't believe it at some level.  I don't recall her coming out with a statement saying she wasn't being serious. 

What was portrayed on TV was she was serious enough about Jason to be deemed a couple, have unprotected sex with him, she talked about moving in with him (pre pregnancy) and she sure seemed to revel in impending marital bliss and a baby. 

That is the problem with Bethenny when do you take her seriously?  This is a woman who repeatedly states she is real.  And even goes after those who she claims aren't real. 

[Wendy]

1 hour ago, film noire said:

I think Selective = Not talk about X vs Duplicity = Talk about X in a misleading way. So if Radiziwill had said "Carolyn was actually a drug counselor" that's duplicitous, whereas saying nothing about the drug use rumours is selective. And if Frankel had said nothing abut her bio father, I wouldn't have an issue with that.

 

Why would she not say anything about her father? 

He was a famous horse trainer and at one point or another, their lack of relationship was going to raise eyebrows. 

Tinsley has spoken about her father being an alcoholic,  should she have remained quiet about it? It gave some frame to why she is hurt by him but still loved him. 

Luann was very misleading by making everybody believe that she had a perfect marriage during season 1 &2, that was not duplicitous, that was a straight up lie that she carried for two seasons and nobody seems to have an issue with it. 

It is just as ridiculous as those opinions about how Bethenny should not have called the police on Jason for Bryn's benefit. So I guess now the best for our mental health is to make up fairy tale relationships out of crappy ones. To pretend that nothing is happening just to shelter the abuser. Completely ridiculous. 

[the killer]

52 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Yes, I do, I think she wants to blame someone else for her decision instead of owning it and she went into detail. Honestly, Bethenny likes to be able to blame others for what she says/does, from blaming Andy/Bravo for her marriage to Jason to her blaming Luann for "making me go there" when she attacked Luann last season. Nothing is ever her fault, someone else is always to blame. Well, except her SKG, then she claims she did it all on her own without any help from anyone, despite facts to the opposite. LOL 

I think that is exactly right. It is her continual narrative of victimization that is at the root of this whole kerfuffle. That is why I think the charges against Jason will be dropped and the case dismissed. Bethenny's patter of exaggeration, deceit and playing the victim in each in every circumstance will not play out the way she thinks it will in a court of law. Just as she could not get full custody and take her daughter away from her father in the divorce settlement...... she will not be able to have said father be incarcerated due to her narrative of being the biggest victim in the history of the world. 

Lets see what happens.

[zoeysmom]

45 minutes ago, Wendy said:

 

Why would she not say anything about her father? 

He was a famous horse trainer and at one point or another, their lack of relationship was going to raise eyebrows. 

Tinsley has spoken about her father being an alcoholic,  should she have remained quiet about it? It gave some frame to why she is hurt by him but still loved him. 

Luann was very misleading by making everybody believe that she had a perfect marriage during season 1 &2, that was not duplicitous, that was a straight up lie that she carried for two seasons and nobody seems to have an issue with it. 

It is just as ridiculous as those opinions about how Bethenny should not have called the police on Jason for Bryn's benefit. So I guess now the best for our mental health is to make up fairy tale relationships out of crappy ones. To pretend that nothing is happening just to shelter the abuser. Completely ridiculous. 

Actually in the first season Bethenny did mention her father before the "being raised by wolves" comment.  She was a t an event and mentioned her father knew the Sidney Frank who sold Grey Goose for $2 billion dollars.  The men at the event who knew her father mentioned he had said Bethenny was very independent.  Betehnny also mentioned what a fabulous horse trainer her father was, but alas it was after the "being raised by wolves" comment.  SO there is mentioning and there is mentioning. 

Tinsley father became a fairly public buffoon.  He was even removed from the courtroom during a hearing on his divorce (not from Tinsley's mom) and Dale managed the family finances even after the divorce..

Misleading to protect your children because Luann and Alex had not quite the divorce phase in their marriage.  I don't mind a person keeps their cards close if it is to protect their children.

Bethenny's case against Jason is about her-not Bryn.  We will most likely never know what steps were taken to resolve their issues prior to the e-mail rash Jason seems to have become afflicted.  I don't think Jason should have kept pestering her and also I have no idea what was at issue between the two of them.  One thing that makes me uncomfortable is the possibility the child might have to testify be it for or against her father.     

Edited July 5, 2017 by zoeysmom

[motorcitymom65]

50 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

She seemed to blame everyone.  You don't make statements like such as the Andy comment in the context of a serious speech if you don't believe it at some level.  I don't recall her coming out with a statement saying she wasn't being serious. 

What was portrayed on TV was she was serious enough about Jason to be deemed a couple, have unprotected sex with him, she talked about moving in with him (pre pregnancy) and she sure seemed to revel in impending marital bliss and a baby. 

That is the problem with Bethenny when do you take her seriously?  This is a woman who repeatedly states she is real.  And even goes after those who she claims aren't real. 

I guess that is the million dollar question. This whole thread has moved from talking about divorce to taking about what a liar Beth is. I am not sure exactly why, except maybe to prove the stuff about Jason cannot be true because she says things she knows to not be true. But now we are to believe that this is true? Many don't believe her childhood was so bad because she uses hyperbole, but then latch on to every other thing she says like it is the gospel to prove a different point. I think she use hyperbole to explain her emotions. I think she did love Jason, but had reservations in her gut. She was in deep and felt pressure and married him despite her reservations. I don't think she actually blames Andy. If she did think that he was responsible for the hell - financial, emotional, legal - that she has been through for the last 5 years that they would be tight. She doesn't put up with that shit. I also don't think that if he really thought she blamed him that he would feel the way he does about her. When he did that hour long interview with her last year she cried what appeared to be real tears when she thanked him for what he had done for her. She said none of her success would have ever been possible without Bravo as her launching pad. I just don't think that she actually holds him responsible for the fact that she made a bad marriage. 

[diadochokinesis]

6 hours ago, BBHN said:

"That house be ours!" is what she said.

Allegedly.

For some reason that is said in a pirate voice in my head.

[breezy424]

I think that because Beth uses so much hyperbole and uses and 'selects' her memories of her childhood, it comes across to me as self serving.  If you're going to write a book called A Place of Yes, as a self help book, hyperbole has no place regarding your own life.  Self help is about honesty, not self serving yourself.  That is, if you're truly interested in helping others.

Reading the comments about Jason's mother over the last few hours....wow.  Ouch.  I never thought for a moment that Carol Hoppy had any ulterior motives in notifying those documents.  For me, she clearly loves her granddaughter and it's wonderful for Bryn to have immediate family in her life.  I don't think that Carol is is a harmful influence.  I also highly doubt that charges are going to brought against Carol Hoppy as a notary.  How long has it been now? 

Let's not make light of the Hoppy's losing a son.  Crap.  It's the worst thing that can happen to a parent.  At least for me.  My parents had friends who lost a son.  Very nice people.  Their son committed suicide when he was in his forties.  They were devastated.  It changed them forever.  You kind of expect certain things in life but losing a child, no matter what their age is the worst hurt in the world.  At least, for me, as a parent.

Going back to Beth.  So she thinks that she shouldn't have married Jason.  Yet, in A Place of Yes, she only has accolades for Jason.  This was written after their child was born.  Again, it goes back to self serving.  If you thought you shouldn't have married the guy, then why did you write in a book about how great he was and happy you are.  Um.  Self serving and playing a game for money?

[zoeysmom]

9 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I guess that is the million dollar question. This whole thread has moved from talking about divorce to taking about what a liar Beth is. I am not sure exactly why, except maybe to prove the stuff about Jason cannot be true because she says things she knows to not be true. But now we are to believe that this is true? Many don't believe her childhood was so bad because she uses hyperbole, but then latch on to every other thing she says like it is the gospel to prove a different point. I think she use hyperbole to explain her emotions. I think she did love Jason, but had reservations in her gut. She was in deep and felt pressure and married him despite her reservations. I don't think she actually blames Andy. If she did think that he was responsible for the hell - financial, emotional, legal - that she has been through for the last 5 years that they would be tight. She doesn't put up with that shit. I also don't think that if he really thought she blamed him that he would feel the way he does about her. When he did that hour long interview with her last year she cried what appeared to be real tears when she thanked him for what he had done for her. She said none of her success would have ever been possible without Bravo as her launching pad. I just don't think that she actually holds him responsible for the fact that she made a bad marriage. 

I do believe when people are going to court the veracity of the complaining witness and Bethenny's claims of material harm to the mental or emotional health of Bethenny are entirely germane. in this thread.  There is such a thing as prior inconsistent statements that are permissible in court as part of the cross-examination of a witness. 

You are certainly entitled to believe whatever you want about Bethenny's state of mind just as those who don't share your opinion are entitled to their own.  It is just part of what makes these threads conversational.

My curiosity is more about what led up to Jason and all the e-mails.  Did he feel that Bethenny was violating their agreement about not discussing the divorce (something Bethenny has stated exists)?  Some think he was angry about the final resolution of the divorce.  Maybe Jason was pestering her over minutia and Bethenny was fed up. 

The biggest question I have, and this really hasn't been discussed, is Bethenny hoping Jason will be punished or does she just want Jason to stop contacting her?  As in does she want to see him do jail time.  Absent to date is any expression from Bethenny of what she wants from this prosecution as to punishment.  BTW it is totally okay if she doesn't have a public statement as I don't think it would be in the best interests of the child.

[the killer]

48 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

The biggest question I have, and this really hasn't been discussed, is Bethenny hoping Jason will be punished or does she just want Jason to stop contacting her?  As in does she want to see him do jail time.  Absent to date is any expression from Bethenny of what she wants from this prosecution as to punishment.  BTW it is totally okay if she doesn't have a public statement as I don't think it would be in the best interests of the child.

This is a very astute comment.

 I think we can surmise exactly how Bethenny will behave based on her actions regarding everyone else in her life. Somehow it does not seem likely that she would show compassion, empathy or kindness. Her track record sort of tells you how it will go.

[BBHN]

Quote

Bryn: How come I can't ever see you and Daddy at the same time anymore, Griftmaw?

Well Bryn, Daddy has to stay in New York and I have to stay in Pennsylvania.  We can't travel across state lines anymore because our ankle bracelets set off an alarm and your mommy will call the police to have us taken away and locked up.

Now pick up the pen, honey ... we need to finish this up so we can meet Daddy at the state line in an hour.

Loooooooooooooool

Quote

WW is not likable yet she still has a show

I'm sure even she has people who genuinely like her.

Quote

He was happy to live off the proceeds of her career.  One might think he would have been more supportive of her attempts to branch out.  

He wanted access to her money and lifestyle it provided without having to do too much for it. Ride that gravy train, Jason! Ride it good!

...oh wait. Too late for that.

Quote

For some reason that is said in a pirate voice in my head.

Maybe the Hoppys are related to Luann's pirate hook-up? ;)

Quote

My curiosity is more about what led up to Jason and all the e-mails.  Did he feel that Bethenny was violating their agreement about not discussing the divorce (something Bethenny has stated exists)?  Some think he was angry about the final resolution of the divorce.  Maybe Jason was pestering her over minutia and Bethenny was fed up. 

It is possible that he is just a bitter asshole.

[zoeysmom]

14 minutes ago, the killer said:

This is a very astute comment.

 I think we can surmise exactly how Bethenny will behave based on her actions regarding everyone else in her life. Somehow it does not seem likely that she would show compassion, empathy or kindness. Her track record sort of tells you how it will go.

At some point Bryn has to be aware that her dad is facing criminal charges.  I remember on RHOA Phaedra talking about her then four year old son and his father facing incarceration.  The little boy asked why Daddy couldn't just say he was sorry.  Kids sometimes have an entirely different take on things. 

[the killer]

I don't follow Atlanta. Did Phaedra Parks bring evidence to the district attorney in the hopes of having her husband incarcerated? Was she the driving force behind his prosecution? Did she have her minions try to poison the jury pool on her show by passing remarks?

Being a husband or lover of a Housewife seems to be a pretty dangerous occupation. We have divorces, jail terms and suicides. You have better luck being the fourth guy in the red shirt beaming down with Kirk, Spock and Bones.

[BBHN]

Quote

except maybe to prove the stuff about Jason cannot be true because she says things she knows to not be true

Yeah, remember, Bethenny isn't the one on trial, Jason is.

[film noire]

3 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

The show was called, "Bethenny Getting Married?", I would say that she was allowed to express her apprehension about the marriage.  Bethenny flat out said she blamed Andy Cohen and he responded:  http://extratv.com/2015/06/17/andy-cohen-responds-to-bethenny-frankels-claims-he-influenced-her-marriage-decision/  http://www.realitytea.com/2015/06/16/bethenny-frankel-knew-marriage-to-jason-hoppy-would-end-in-divorce-blames-andy-cohen/ 

 

The most shocking thing I learned at that link:  not that the Bravo spin-off influenced her decision to marry Jason ("...it was a situation where they were giving me a show – a spin-off – and I was in a relationship and it kind of just became‘This is what’s going on in your life, this is compelling") but that Bethenny Frankel has a degree in PSYCHOLOGY. 

2 hours ago, Wendy said:

Why would she not say anything about her father? 

I meant if Frankel had said nothing (being selective) I would not have a problem with that choice -- but having said something misleading, I do have a problem with THAT choice.

Edited July 5, 2017 by film noire

[zoeysmom]

3 minutes ago, the killer said:

I don't follow Atlanta. Did Phaedra Parks bring evidence to the district attorney in the hopes of having her husband incarcerated? Was she the driving force behind his prosecution? Did she have her minions try to poison the jury pool on her show by passing remarks?

Being a husband or lover of a Housewife seems to be a pretty dangerous occupation. We have divorces, jail terms and suicides. You have better luck being the fourth guy in the red shirt beaming down with Kirk, Spock and Bones.

No Phaedra didn't, her husband was arrested on a long laundry list of fraud charges and was sentenced to eight years in prison. There was significant speculation that the husband took the fall and that Phaedra had to be aware of the fraud.  In Phaedra's case she is an attorney so I do believe it was particularly difficult for the little guy to realize some things can't be fixed.

On another point, last week's episode which was filmed two days after the incident at the school, Bethenny mentioned she and Dennis weren't together anymore as the divorce stuff was too much.  I am wondering if perhaps Dennis pulled the plug on the relationship over Bethenny had her continuing Jason drama.  It just seems odd that he was such an important part of Bryn's life he was going to her recital on Friday and by Monday Bethenny is saying the relationship is over.  Just another question.

[smores]

My parents both would have told you they shouldn't have married each other.  They would tell anyone but myself and my siblings that they regretted marrying each other (obviously, they'd only tell their children "How could we regret it, we got you?").  However, I am quite confident that had you asked them while they were married (prior to separation), they would have been all in and had nothing but great things to say about each other and were totally happy with the fact that they were married to each other.  Perspectives about that sort of thing change.  I have no reason to doubt that they loved each other when they were married, and prior to that, even.  I absolutely remember how much they hated each other after the fact.  My mother still has no use for my father, to this day, and he is dead, so, B writing in a book during the marriage that she was thrilled with Jason but then later having regrets?  Not really a contradiction or a lie to me.  

[BBHN]

Quote

I am wondering if perhaps Dennis pulled the plug on the relationship over Bethenny had her continuing Jason drama.  It just seems odd that he was such an important part of Bryn's life he was going to her recital on Friday and by Monday Bethenny is saying the relationship is over.  Just another question.

Well, being harassed by your current lover's ex  and her being stalked and harassed by that same ex can't be all fun and games, or good for a relationship.

Quote

Perspectives about that sort of thing change

Yes, they do.

Edited July 5, 2017 by BBHN

[the killer]

I think Bethenny's daughter is going to have to get used to meeting a lot of dudes who are involved with her mother being involved in her life. But lets look on the bright side. She can associate every big event in her life with a different guy. They do say variety is the spice of life. Why not make it a positive. If she doesn't like her mom's current dude she just has to wait a couple of months for the next one to come along.

I understand that a key part of the decor in her new apartment is the revolving doors.

Made by the same company that did that bar.

[film noire]

4 hours ago, Jel said:

 I remember when you used to like and defend Bethenny -- perhaps your first instincts were correct.

Think about it!? Maybe?

Hmmm....

(do you still have all that cheesecake? ; ) 

Edited July 5, 2017 by film noire

[zoeysmom]

2 minutes ago, BBHN said:

Well, being harassed by your current lover's ex  and her being stalked and harassed by that same ex can't be all fun and games, or good for a relationship.

.

Maybe Dennis did not want to be part of a public stalking and harassment case.  He had known for months things were rocky between Jason and Bethenny.  If he wanted to stay out of the fray he would not have gone to the school. Or maybe he wasn't told Jason would most likely be there.  Maybe just maybe he took Jason words seriously and realized Bethenny is just bad news.   I would think after Bethenny pulled the trigger and got a restraining order it would have the opposite effect-relief. 

As the episodes are aired we get a little bit more information that adds to the pieces of the puzzle.

[BBHN]

Quote

Maybe Dennis did not want to be part of a public stalking and harassment case

Well, who would?

Quote

If he wanted to stay out of the fray he would not have gone to the school.

His being there at the school really shouldn't be used to justify nor excuse Jason's behavior.

Quote

Or maybe he wasn't told Jason would most likely be there. 

Or maybe he just underestimated how much of a douchy asshole Jason was?

Edited July 5, 2017 by BBHN

[the killer]

Maybe he work up and smelled the coffee.

Or the rancid spoiled Skinny Girl cocktail spilled across the bar leaving a sticky mess.

On another note Ramona just tweeted that she deserves more sympathy than she gets because she was raised by hamsters.

That is where she got her new look.

[film noire]

23 minutes ago, the killer said:

You have better luck being the fourth guy in the red shirt beaming down with Kirk, Spock and Bones.

LOL

40 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

It just seems odd that he was such an important part of Bryn's life he was going to her recital on Friday and by Monday Bethenny is saying the relationship is over. 

That is quick -- I hadn't realized it was that fast. 

[Happy Camper]

14 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I said the same thing yesterday. 

Or becomes friends with B. 

Bethenny used to be my favorite, in the beginning. People do change their opinions sometimes.

[motorcitymom65]

16 minutes ago, Happy Camper said:

Bethenny used to be my favorite, in the beginning. People do change their opinions sometimes.

Of course. I certainly have. But sometimes people change their opinions about one person based primarily on who they hang with and call their friends. Even if they are basically the same person.