The Men of Sex and the City

[Jax7917]

What I never understood about Carrie is how she was so woe is me and expected everyone to feel sorry for her because Big played games with her, when she was worse than that to Aidan. She treated Aidan like crap, was mean to him for no reason constantly, and begged him to get back together with her only to drop him again like a hot potato after he agreed to work things out. In the movie, I was happy that Big did what he did because I couldn't stand Carrie as a character and thought she honestly deserved what she got ( I know that seems really harsh but when you look back to her relationship with Aidan, she did deserve that). But also, her character as a whole just bothered me. She was ALWAYS whining, always feeling sorry for herself, and constantly went after a guy who clearly was not into her and showed her that many times over. And she wasn't a teenager or even in her 20's at the time. She was a woman in her 30's who kept going after the unattainable guy who treated her like crap over and over again. I know Big decided he wanted to be with her in the last episode, but that always felt so contrived. He wasn't in love with her for years of her being with other guys, but out of nowhere because the last episode was approaching, he magically wanted to be with her then.

[Melancholy]

I will give Carrie that Big was complicated. I don't agree with this mass consensus that Big never really loved her and Carrie  just delusionally imagined that he loved her until deux ex machina happened in Paris in the season finale. Chris Noth very excellently plays Big as in love with Carrie even back into S1 and SJP very excellently plays this tension where she can feel that Big loves her but it's ultimately frustrating and painful because Big's love for her only materializes in a feeling of chemistry instead of actual commitment and earnest sentimentality. In addition to the actor's chemistry, it becomes evident in the series that Big loves Carrie because he keeps coming back to her and only her. There's no other woman that Big keeps wanting to try again with. 

It's just that Carrie had to pick one of two dignified good choices on how to deal with a man like that- (a) stay with Big and try to be patient and accepting of his commitment-phobia because there's real love there or (b) leave Big because he's not giving her what she needs and she should look for the whole package of chemistry and love AND commitment in another man. Carrie doesn't pick one of those choices- she picks both and in picking both, she makes a hash of both choices. She also makes a hash in how she approaches her options. She has periods in the series where she stays with Big in the hope of forming a closer relationship but she's never really accepting or empathetic but instead, constantly impatient and seething inside. Then, she has periods where she leaves Big to find the whole package in another man but then, she's so hung up on Big that she can't fall in love with another man even though she lies to herself and them about it. 

There are a few exceptions. I do think Carrie was patient and accepting of Big and trying to patiently work on their relationship in S1 and apparently, between the end of the series and until Big proposed in the first movie. I think Carrie really tried to leave Big behind to give her whole heart to Berger but mainly, Berger screwed that up. 

Edited June 11, 2018 by Melancholy

[Jax7917]

35 minutes ago, Melancholy said:

I will give Carrie that Big was complicated. I don't agree with this mass consensus that Big never really loved her and Carrie  just delusionally imagined that he loved her until deux ex machina happened in Paris in the season finale. Chris Noth very excellently plays Big as in love with Carrie even back into S1 and SJP very excellently plays this tension where she can feel that Big loves her but it's ultimately frustrating and painful because Big's love for her only materializes in a feeling of chemistry instead of actual commitment and earnest sentimentality. In addition to the actor's chemistry, it becomes evident in the series that Big loves Carrie because he keeps coming back to her and only her. There's no other woman that Big keeps wanting to try again with. 

It's just that Carrie had to pick one of two dignified good choices on how to deal with a man like that- (a) stay with Big and try to be patient and accepting of his commitment-phobia because there's real love there or (b) leave Big because he's not giving her what she needs and she should look for the whole package of chemistry and love AND commitment in another man. Carrie doesn't pick one of those choices- she picks both and in picking both, she makes a hash of both choices. She also makes a hash in how she approaches her options. She has periods in the series where she stays with Big in the hope of forming a closer relationship but she's never really accepting or empathetic but instead, constantly impatient and seething inside. Then, she has periods where she leaves Big to find the whole package in another man but then, she's so hung up on Big that she can't fall in love with another man even though she lies to herself and them about it. 

There are a few exceptions. I do think Carrie was patient and accepting of Big and trying to patiently work on their relationship in S1 and apparently, between the end of the series and until Big proposed in the first movie. I think Carrie really tried to leave Big behind to give her whole heart to Berger but mainly, Berger screwed that up. 

 

He keeps coming back to her and only her because she accepts all of his crap and accepts him into her life no matter what he does whereas someone like Natasha wouldn't. He told Carrie he never wanted to get married again while they were together and ended up marrying Natasha shortly after he said that. I do think their relationship is realistic because a lot of people keep going back to the person who maybe hasn't treated them right but had  a lot of comfort and great chemistry.. I just don't think Big loved her. I think he wanted to and I think Carrie was that person for him who he kept going back to because it was easy, but at the end of the day couldn't commit to her because something was missing for him. 

To sum it all up, there are a lot of tv couples I watch and am envious of their relationship.. Carrie and Big.. not so much.

Edited June 11, 2018 by Jaclyn88

[Gothish520]

Yes to everything you said @Melancholy, well-put!

@Jaclyn88, while I do believe that Big loves Carrie, I agree with you that I don't envy their relationship. Lord, that was an exhausting ride! 

I think one of the reasons I relate to Carrie is that I had a relationship with a man where we came back to each other a few times even though we both knew it was foolish. It wasn't anything on the grand scale of Big and Carrie, and we did not end up together (thank goodness!) but I totally get not being able to move past someone, and trying and trying, dating other guys, but still finding yourself in bed with this man that you can't shake. Sometimes I made the first contact, sometimes he did...and every time he showed me any interest and made me feel like he still cared, I was right there to soak it all up. And this all happened when I was in my early to mid thirties, just like Carrie. So I can sure relate to her inability to let go of Big. In my case, we both eventually moved on to other relationships, but we did remain friends for quite a while - and it was just as inappropriate as Big and Carrie staying friends. But in my defense, we worked together, so I had to see him on an almost daily basis. When I think about it now (happily married to a wonderful man who has always put our relationship first), I wonder why I put up with such nonsense, but I guess the heart wants what the heart wants. Oy!

[Jax7917]

7 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

Yes to everything you said @Melancholy, well-put!

@Jaclyn88, while I do believe that Big loves Carrie, I agree with you that I don't envy their relationship. Lord, that was an exhausting ride! 

I think one of the reasons I relate to Carrie is that I had a relationship with a man where we came back to each other a few times even though we both knew it was foolish. It wasn't anything on the grand scale of Big and Carrie, and we did not end up together (thank goodness!) but I totally get not being able to move past someone, and trying and trying, dating other guys, but still finding yourself in bed with this man that you can't shake. Sometimes I made the first contact, sometimes he did...and every time he showed me any interest and made me feel like he still cared, I was right there to soak it all up. And this all happened when I was in my early to mid thirties, just like Carrie. So I can sure relate to her inability to let go of Big. In my case, we both eventually moved on to other relationships, but we did remain friends for quite a while - and it was just as inappropriate as Big and Carrie staying friends. But in my defense, we worked together, so I had to see him on an almost daily basis. When I think about it now (happily married to a wonderful man who has always put our relationship first), I wonder why I put up with such nonsense, but I guess the heart wants what the heart wants. Oy!

Yes, as much as their relationship was terrible, it was definitely a realistic one. Happened to me with a couple of different people. And each time he agreed to be in a relationship, I did something purposely (although I didn't know it was purposely at the time) to sabotage things so we'd break up again because at the end of the day, the Big's of the world are great in theory and get your blood going, but they will always have you feeling insecure and worried that you aren't enough for them.

[Mu Shu]

11 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

Things were not that simple, at least not in the case of Harry and Smith. Aiden and Carrie were a mess but Aiden came back for more so I'm not going to feel too sorry for him. Miranda was just bitchy most of the time...I think she would've treated any guy like that though, so at least she and Steve loved each other. 

Charlotte and Harry had that one falling-out, but once they got back together they were great, and she loved him and treated him well. Samantha hauled her cookies to the opposite side of the country to be with Smith. She also helped his career immensely. 

I’m pretty sure I’d never marry a person who let me know I wasn’t good looking enough, and that I was shallow enough to worry about strangers wondering why I was with an ugly guy.   Charlotte and Sam were ciphers.  But consider the source material.

i still love the show warts and all.  My ass didn’t leave the couch all weekend!

[Jax7917]

Also, I know Big always calling Carrie "kid" was supposed to be cute, but it really just made their age gap seem bigger and it didn't exactly seem like a term of endearment.

[Gothish520]

37 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

Also, I know Big always calling Carrie "kid" was supposed to be cute, but it really just made their age gap seem bigger and it didn't exactly seem like a term of endearment.

Some could argue that it was a way of putting Carrie "in her place", meaning Big was in charge. he was the boss and controlled the relationship. At least that's the way he saw it, or wanted it...if he even thought about it that much. Man, he was hard to read, especially in the first couple of seasons.

[Gothish520]

54 minutes ago, Mu Shu said:

I’m pretty sure I’d never marry a person who let me know I wasn’t good looking enough, and that I was shallow enough to worry about strangers wondering why I was with an ugly guy.   Charlotte and Sam were ciphers.  But consider the source material.

i still love the show warts and all.  My ass didn’t leave the couch all weekend!

I hear you. I don't think it's right or proper to denigrate your significant other's looks. If you love them, then I would think that you find them attractive, period. And if you're worried about what others think, then that's pretty damn shallow. I'm glad they got past it though, because I do love them as a couple. I like to think that Charlotte experienced some real growth as a person because of that situation. She was always the character that I least related to, but she did change, and became a better person. 

And I'd take Harry in a hot second over Trey - looks and personality!

[Jax7917]

1 hour ago, Gothish520 said:

 

And I'd take Harry in a hot second over Trey - looks and personality!

I didn't find Trey attractive either.

[Melancholy]

3 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

He keeps coming back to her and only her because she accepts all of his crap and accepts him into her life no matter what he does whereas someone like Natasha wouldn't. He told Carrie he never wanted to get married again while they were together and ended up marrying Natasha shortly after he said that. I do think their relationship is realistic because a lot of people keep going back to the person who maybe hasn't treated them right but had  a lot of comfort and great chemistry.. I just don't think Big loved her. I think he wanted to and I think Carrie was that person for him who he kept going back to because it was easy, but at the end of the day couldn't commit to her because something was missing for him. 

To sum it all up, there are a lot of tv couples I watch and am envious of their relationship.. Carrie and Big.. not so much.

I think we're always going to disagree on whether Big loved Carrie because it's a subjective opinion on chemistry. I think there were other women who'd accept Big's distance. Frankly, I wouldn't even call TV Series!Big's behavior toward Carrie "crap" other than actually, his intense persistence in having an affair with her until he turned her "nos" into a "yes." He was an asshole to Carrie then. But more often, Big didn't want to commit to Carrie as fast as she wanted. But generally, he was fun, honest, interested in her life, financially generous and as well as generous with attention even when they were broken up and there was no obvious sexual pay-off. *I* wouldn't want to date Big because I'm a Charlotte in the sense that I only date with a goal of marriage/children. I have no interest in dating for the sake of sex and temporary companionship. However, Carrie pretended to be interested in dating just for sex and companionship even though she was dating with a goal of marriage and being taken care of. However, I think there's lots of women who'd like to have a casual romance with a guy like Big. 

As for Natasha, I don't know whether Natasha would have been up for a Round 2. Seems unlikely but we don't know. But that's because Big actually DID treat Natasha like crap. He cheated on her and lied to her repeatedly and invaded her home with his mistress. Big didn't put *Carrie* through any of that. 

[Gothish520]

I agree with you @Melancholy, that Carrie's main problem with Big was that he wasn't "all In" all the time, and in her timeframe. She wanted things to be more serious NOW. She wanted him to be where she was in the relationship, NOW. I get it, but things just don't always go at that pace.

I see both sides - men can date casually. They can go a day or two or five without seeing you, or even talking. The problem is, if a woman is in love, she doesn't want to go a day without talking. And I think we women know that if a man is truly in love, he wouldn't want to go a day without talking, either. So we have this relationship with this guy, and he's cool and he wants to see us, but only when HE wants - which again, could be a day or a week or a month from now. And we're almost planning the wedding at this point. And we try to play it cool, because we think if we hang in there long enough, he will see how awesome we are and he will realize we are "the one", and he will get to the point that he can't be without us - but days, weeks, maybe even months go by, and it seems we are no closer than when we started. And maybe that's when the "where is this relationship going?" conversation happens, or we blow up and have a big argument, or we have to sit down and realize "He's just not that into you." Love that episode, BTW! Because every man I've ever talked to about this has said, if a guy wants to see you, he will make it happen. It's not because he's too tired or too busy, or blah blah blah - please. Men and women will forgo sleep, be late for work and miss deadlines if it means being with someone they really want to be with.

Edited June 11, 2018 by Gothish520

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

3 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

I agree with you @Melancholy, that Carrie's main problem with Big was that he wasn't "all In" all the time, and in her timeframe. She wanted things to be more serious Because every man I've ever talked to about this has said, if a guy wants to see you, he will make it happen. It's not because he's too tired or too busy, or blah blah blah - please. Men and women will forgo sleep, be late for work and miss deadlines if it means being with someone they really want to be with.

You and I have had very different experiences in dating. Most of my relationships have been casual, because at various points that’s all I’ve had the energy for. And if I wanted more, but couldn’t give it due to work/school/money, well, c’est la vie. Led to some pretty intense heartbreak, but in the long run, I’m glad things worked out the way they did. Independence has always been paramount to me, which meant not taking work for granted, especially during the recession, which happened right when I started the “grown-up” phase of dating. No love, or potential love, has ever been worth jeopardizing that. 

[Jax7917]

3 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

I agree with you @Melancholy, that Carrie's main problem with Big was that he wasn't "all In" all the time, and in her timeframe. She wanted things to be more serious NOW. She wanted him to be where she was in the relationship, NOW. I get it, but things just don't always go at that pace.

I see both sides - men can date casually. They can go a day or two or five without seeing you, or even talking. The problem is, if a woman is in love, she doesn't want to go a day without talking. And I think we women know that if a man is truly in love, he wouldn't want to go a day without talking, either. So we have this relationship with this guy, and he's cool and he wants to see us, but only when HE wants - which again, could be a day or a week or a month from now. And we're almost planning the wedding at this point. And we try to play it cool, because we think if we hang in there long enough, he will see how awesome we are and he will realize we are "the one", and he will get to the point that he can't be without us - but days, weeks, maybe even months go by, and it seems we are no closer than when we started. And maybe that's when the "where is this relationship going?" conversation happens, or we blow up and have a big argument, or we have to sit down and realize "He's just not that into you." Love that episode, BTW! Because every man I've ever talked to about this has said, if a guy wants to see you, he will make it happen. It's not because he's too tired or too busy, or blah blah blah - please. Men and women will forgo sleep, be late for work and miss deadlines if it means being with someone they really want to be with.

Exactly ! I think at the end of the day the problem lies in the fact that deep down we all know that anyone , guy or girl .. introvert or extrovert , will show you how they really feel by their actions .. and we try to make excuses by saying that " everyone does things differently " .. but you'll know when someone loves you . You don't have to question it . And that's why I stand by big not being in love with Carrie . He always gave her a reason to question his feelings 

[Gothish520]

1 hour ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

You and I have had very different experiences in dating. Most of my relationships have been casual, because at various points that’s all I’ve had the energy for. And if I wanted more, but couldn’t give it due to work/school/money, well, c’est la vie. Led to some pretty intense heartbreak, but in the long run, I’m glad things worked out the way they did. Independence has always been paramount to me, which meant not taking work for granted, especially during the recession, which happened right when I started the “grown-up” phase of dating. No love, or potential love, has ever been worth jeopardizing that. 

Oh, of course I've casually dated and had relationships that were basically glorified one-night stands. Ive also been in love a few times. I'm not saying that all my relationships have followed the same pattern, but I've had my share of heartbreak and have seen my family and friends deal with relationship ups and downs as well.

We definitely differ though, in that I would never consider any job more important than my husband. I was a late bloomer, and was independent and alone for a good portion of my adulthood. I know myself and had plenty of time to do whatever I wanted. Now I get to share my life with someone who loves me and puts me and our relationship first.

[Mu Shu]

Trey was creepy.  The whole mother thing was creepy.

The Russian wasn’t bad at all. carrie acted like an infant around the Russian.  Why did she sit and pout at the gallery instead of going the group?  Why didn’t she call the restaurant, pay for dinner and drinks, and leave her number/email so the fans could contact her?  And her bringing her drunk friends to his apartment was a jerk move. 

[Gothish520]

2 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

Trey was creepy.  The whole mother thing was creepy.

The Russian wasn’t bad at all. carrie acted like an infant around the Russian.  Why did she sit and pout at the gallery instead of going the group?  Why didn’t she call the restaurant, pay for dinner and drinks, and leave her number/email so the fans could contact her?  And her bringing her drunk friends to his apartment was a jerk move. 

You know, it's funny, I had heard about the bathroom scene with Trey and his mother before seeing it, and was expecting something that would really creep me out. But when I saw the scene, I didn't think it was anything to get worked up over. I mean, sure it's a little weird that a mother would be in the bathroom while her adult son is in the bathtub, but his privates were covered (I think), and she was just sitting there smoking and chatting casually. I had visions that she was scrubbing his back and looking at him longingly or some other weird and dysfunctional situation, LOL!

[Inquisitionist]

22 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

I guess the heart wants what the heart wants. Oy!

And sometimes the brain needs to tell the heart to just get over it already.  ;-)

[Gothish520]

3 hours ago, Inquisitionist said:

And sometimes the brain needs to tell the heart to just get over it already.  ;-)

Sometimes that darn heart won't listen! :D 

Thankfully, with time and experience, the heart grows stronger and wiser and realizes the brain is pretty smart.  

[Melancholy]

15 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

Trey was creepy.  The whole mother thing was creepy.

The Russian wasn’t bad at all. carrie acted like an infant around the Russian.  Why did she sit and pout at the gallery instead of going the group?  Why didn’t she call the restaurant, pay for dinner and drinks, and leave her number/email so the fans could contact her?  And her bringing her drunk friends to his apartment was a jerk move. 

Alexander wasn't *evil* but I thought he was snide and humorless and condescending and phoney and cold. He wasn't with Carrie long enough to really fuck her over but I thought he was a giant warning sign. Sure, it was a little awkward that Carrie brought her tipsy friends upstairs. But I wouldn't call it a "jerk move." Alexander had agreed to meet Carrie's friends and he was the one who renigged on the plans at the last minute while the girls were in the restaurant because of vague artistic "inspiration." That was the jerk move. Carrie should have shot Alex a call or text telling him that she was bringing her friends over instead of apparently, bringing them over unannounced. However, I get that she was trying to rehab the night so Alex could meet her friends as they planned. He should have made pleasant conversation for ten minutes and then, retired back to his studio while Carrie hung with her friends. Instead of coldly dismissing them. 

A lot of the Carrie/Alex conflicts involve both of them behaving badly. Like, I also thought Alex WAS a jerk to respond to the news that Carrie's best friends has cancer by immediately bringing up his friend that died. However, Carrie's horrified reaction to Alex's cold condescending bluntness was part and parcel of Carrie being unable to recognize the seriousness and sadness of Samantha's situation because Carrie feels more comfortable mouthing optimistic platitudes and treating everything like a big party. 

In Paris, I agree that Carrie was stupid and should have called the restaurant where her fans were meeting to let them know where she was. That's where Carrie fucked up. But, Carrie was legitimately stuck sitting and pouting in the gallery because Alex demonstrated through dropping her hand and hustling ahead of her while speaking entirely in French that she was not supposed to follow. Alex shouldn't have asked Carrie to abandon her plans unless he was committed to including her throughout the evening. 

I thought Trey was sexually dysfunctional and weird but ultimately, had a good heart. He and Charlotte were wrong for each other but I hope that Trey, off screen, got over his demons and found the right woman. 

[Mu Shu]

Eh, Carrie could have followed TR and made herself part of the conversation.  How else do you learn another language.

sorry but if anyone and I mean anyone brings people to my home unannounced, there will be boot up asses.  

It all could have been solved by her not being a whiny, clingy baby.  

[cpcathy]

Carrie's personality changed when she was with The Russian. She seemed super timid and, yes, like a clingy baby. I caught the scene at that party where she set up Enid with Wallace Shawn, Carrie clung to TR, then acted all weird and timid with other people Early seasons Carrie would have been goofing it up with the other guests.

[Melancholy]

1 hour ago, Mu Shu said:

Eh, Carrie could have followed TR and made herself part of the conversation.  How else do you learn another language.

sorry but if anyone and I mean anyone brings people to my home unannounced, there will be boot up asses.  

It all could have been solved by her not being a whiny, clingy baby.  

 

Alex was speaking in French with Very Important Art People who he was paranoid about impressing because it was important for his show's success. Completely wrong environment for Carrie to practice her beginner's French. There was no role for her in a rapid-fire French tour with Very Important Art People other than to sit on the bench. This all could have been avoided by Alex not being a whiny, clingy baby and letting Carrie keep her own social plans.

I said I agreed that Carrie shouldn't have brought her friends unannounced. Carrie has a long-standing horrible pattern throughout the series of not thinking ahead and being considerate enough to call folks. I think it's part of her self-centered thoughtless attitude that she only lives in the NOW. She should have told Alex that she wanted to bring her friends over. But he was also a jerk. It's a jerk move to rennig on social plans while everyone else was seated in the restaurant. I don't think Carrie bringing her friends over was bad enough that Alex should have coldly dismissed everyone.

I don’t like Carrie with Alex. But I don’t like Alex either. 

[luna1122]

1 hour ago, Melancholy said:

 

I thought Trey was sexually dysfunctional and weird but ultimately, had a good heart. He and Charlotte were wrong for each other but I hope that Trey, off screen, got over his demons and found the right woman. 

I loved Trey. I wouldn't want to be married to him, certainly, he DID have a lot of family weirdness and baggage and dysfunction, but he was a good man, kind and sweet, if passive.  I don't think he especially cared about getting married. He did it because Charlotte wanted it, and he loved her. I do think they DID love each other, but they were a bad fit.  But, like you, I always wanted to know Trey was okay. Happy, in whatever and whomever he was...doing.

[Mu Shu]

Good god, it’s just a show.  It didn’t really happen.

[DkNNy79]

17 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

You know, it's funny, I had heard about the bathroom scene with Trey and his mother before seeing it, and was expecting something that would really creep me out. But when I saw the scene, I didn't think it was anything to get worked up over. I mean, sure it's a little weird that a mother would be in the bathroom while her adult son is in the bathtub, but his privates were covered (I think), and she was just sitting there smoking and chatting casually. I had visions that she was scrubbing his back and looking at him longingly or some other weird and dysfunctional situation, LOL!

I thought that bathtub scene was creepy.  I don't care if his privates were covered up, he as a 30 something old man was naked in the bathtub while his mom was sitting on the toilet smoking and talking to him.  I haven't been naked in front of my mom in years outside when I was in labor.  However at that point I was in so much pain I didn't care who was walking in and out of my hospital room while I was in various states of nakedness.

[chitowngirl]

3 hours ago, Melancholy said:

Alex was speaking in French with Very Important Art People who he was paranoid about impressing because it was important for his show's success. Completely wrong environment for Carrie to practice her beginner's French. There was no role for her in a rapid-fire French tour with Very Important Art People other than to sit on the bench. This all could have been avoided by Alex not being a whiny, clingy baby and letting Carrie keep her own social plans.

Once Carrie saw he was in good hands, she should have told him that and then kept her appointment. She also could have left and not said anything and he never would have noticed!

[Melancholy]

11 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

Once Carrie saw he was in good hands, she should have told him that and then kept her appointment. She also could have left and not said anything and he never would have noticed!

Carrie did the latter. She up and left. Yeah, she had a few minutes of helplessness and pouting (IIRC) until she found the Carrie necklace (symbolizing finding herself). But she left. 

Edited June 12, 2018 by Melancholy

[Gothish520]

9 hours ago, DkNNy79 said:

I thought that bathtub scene was creepy.  I don't care if his privates were covered up, he as a 30 something old man was naked in the bathtub while his mom was sitting on the toilet smoking and talking to him.  I haven't been naked in front of my mom in years outside when I was in labor.  However at that point I was in so much pain I didn't care who was walking in and out of my hospital room while I was in various states of nakedness.

Eh, it was weird, but not as weird as I thought it would be.

[ByTor]

On 6/11/2018 at 11:27 AM, Jaclyn88 said:

Also, I know Big always calling Carrie "kid" was supposed to be cute, but it really just made their age gap seem bigger and it didn't exactly seem like a term of endearment.

LOL I dated someone who called me "kid" and I am 3 years older than him.  I thought it was cute :)

Edited July 6, 2018 by ByTor

[Jax7917]

3 minutes ago, ByTor said:

LOL I dated someone who called me "kid" and I am 3 years older than him.  I thought it was cute :)

Yea it could be but he said it in a creepy way lol 

[voiceover]

3 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

Yea it could be but he said it in a creepy way lol 

Welllll...perspective is all.  "Kid" is what Bogart called Bergman in Casablanca; and even before I saw him light up at Gable & Colbert in SATC2, I suspected that's where he got it.  Big had his patronizing moments, but I never thought he looked down on Carrie.  

They had immediate, sparky sexual chem; they were both smart (& respected that in the other), and -- for me, perhaps the 'Big'gest point -- they had the ***same sense of humor*** (Berger was funny as well but he had all that artist/ego ish).  He knew what her writing was to her, and never put himself above that.  I handwaved most of the other crap as Plot Device for a series that ran longer than two seasons.   

Do I think he was perfect?  No.  But in many ways, he was perfect for Carrie.  I remember Nora Ephron's Heartburn; how Rachel (the main character)'s shrink told her that Rachel always looked for the man whose neuroses matched her own.  That was Big and Carrie.

Was his money part of the attraction?  Sure.  But it was part of who he was.  Plus, Carrie said "I love you!" to Aidan and Berger (two artists who'd been successful but weren't exactly rolling in it), and she dumped a man (Aleks) who was far wealthier.

[Gothish520]

9 hours ago, voiceover said:

Welllll...perspective is all.  "Kid" is what Bogart called Bergman in Casablanca; and even before I saw him light up at Gable & Colbert in SATC2, I suspected that's where he got it.  Big had his patronizing moments, but I never thought he looked down on Carrie.  

They had immediate, sparky sexual chem; they were both smart (& respected that in the other), and -- for me, perhaps the 'Big'gest point -- they had the ***same sense of humor*** (Berger was funny as well but he had all that artist/ego ish).  He knew what her writing was to her, and never put himself above that.  I handwaved most of the other crap as Plot Device for a series that ran longer than two seasons.   

Do I think he was perfect?  No.  But in many ways, he was perfect for Carrie.  I remember Nora Ephron's Heartburn; how Rachel (the main character)'s shrink told her that Rachel always looked for the man whose neuroses matched her own.  That was Big and Carrie.

Was his money part of the attraction?  Sure.  But it was part of who he was.  Plus, Carrie said "I love you!" to Aidan and Berger (two artists who'd been successful but weren't exactly rolling in it), and she dumped a man (Aleks) who was far wealthier.

I agree, I never got the sense that Carrie was a gold digger. Money is always a plus, but that's not the main reason she was attracted to Big or the main reason she fell in love with him.

[Jax7917]

1 hour ago, Gothish520 said:

I agree, I never got the sense that Carrie was a gold digger. Money is always a plus, but that's not the main reason she was attracted to Big or the main reason she fell in love with him.

Yea I think she fell more for his status and confidence . 

I don't blame big for not wanting to move forward in his relationship with Carrie . She was an exhausting person . 

[Mu Shu]

On 7/6/2018 at 10:35 AM, Gothish520 said:

I agree, I never got the sense that Carrie was a gold digger. Money is always a plus, but that's not the main reason she was attracted to Big or the main reason she fell in love with him.

Yeah, Carrie had her chance at being a highly paid and pampered international call girl/sugar baby, and couldn’t bring herself to do it.  

She also had the guy with the perfect apartment looking for a wife interested, and opted out.  Aidan had enough income to buy her apartment and the one adjacent to it, so he wasn’t exactly poor.

Money wasn’t really the driver for her.

[BlancheDevoreaux]

On 9/11/2014 at 3:22 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

I'm so glad this topic exists, and I'm so glad other posters have ranted about some of the other guys.

I hate Steve.  Haaaaaaate.  Haaate.  Haaaate.  And it doesn't help that I find him so unbearably unattractive, either, probably, but I assure you.  I do hate his personality.

My basic reasoning is that Steve has a huge sense of entitlement.  Whenever Steve did not get anything from Miranda in the relationship on the timeline that he demanded it, he threw a huge tantrum and then Miranda eventually gave in.  Rinse, and repeat.  This happened again and again.  (Looking at Wikipedia, this seems to be when they date in Season 3.)

Steve wants Miranda to watch him do that basketball contest thing.  Miranda says she's too busy with her work.  Steve throws a tantrum and literally, a basketball until Miranda caves.  Just an example.  I swear there are more examples because I was screaming a lot, I just can't pinpoint them right now.  I think Steve pressures Miranda into dating "steady" and then moving in together both before she's ready.

Finally, in "The Big Time" (Season 3) Steve tries to pressure Miranda into having a baby before she's ready. This was my last straw and thank god Miranda's too because she finally dumped him after they had numerous issues.  Maybe they're kind of a mirror image of Carrie and Big in some sense, with Steve being the Carrie.

 

I always hated Steve, as well, and never thought he was attractive.  I remember the episode where they were discussing how many people they had slept with. Miranda was surprised by his number and he responded something along the lines of "Hey, I'm a bartender and I'm cute."  First, anytime a guy thinks or says how attractive he is, he loses attractiveness points.  Second, Steve wasn't attractive enough to think he was cute or to voice it and lead to him losing attractiveness points.  That comment put him at negative numbers for me.

Anyway, I think the scene where I hated Steve the most was when HE decided that they should have a baby. Miranda had already said it wasn't happening but he didn't care. He wanted a baby so obviously they would have one.  He's watching Scooby Doo (and acting incredibly immature while doing this), Miranda tells him to knock it off because she is preparing an important brief and he says, "You know, if we're going to have a baby, you're going to need to live with noise and lighten up." Or something along those lines.  She already told you no, Steve. She doesn't want a baby with you and you are making her more certain of that decision. Ass.

I hated Steve and hate that he and Miranda ended up together.  She should have been with...

On 10/6/2014 at 12:30 PM, Maherjunkie said:

Why any woman would give up Blair Underwood is a mystery to me.

Mmm hmm.  He was all kinds of perfect.  Hot, professional, and on Miranda's maturity level.  This is who she should have ended up with. Dang he was fine. And lets not forget that he got her to take her very first personal day ever. Clearly there were some feeling there.

 

I loved Smith.  I thought he was the best guy on the entire show.  I didn't really see him as Samantha's best match, though.  She was one of my two favorite females (she and Charlotte traded off throughout the seasons) but I just honestly didn't think Smith was the best fit with Samantha.  I thought that was Richard.

I thought Berger was the best match for Carrie. He was a neurotic headcase, but so was she.  I didn't think she really deserved better than him. She certainly didn't deserve someone as kind, caring, and stable as Aiden.  And her insisting that Big was going to be in her life after she cheated on Aiden with him?  Oh heck no.

I always wondered how things would have worked (and yes, I know it was all fake) had Big met Charlotte first.  I also thought Harry was a great guy, second only to Smith.  He and Charlotte worked in a way I never would have accepted, but there was always a part of me that thought she was better matched with Trey. I guess by the end of the series she was better matched with Harry but Trey had that summer home in Connecticut and went to society events.  That was Charlotte for much of the series. And, while I think his relationship with his mother was incredibly weird, I don't think he was a bad guy at all. But, I've also always been of the mindset that children are never a guarantee in life so you need to learn to be happy with your spouse whether or not you have kids. So, I thought Charlotte was in the wrong there.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I agree with soooooooo much that you wrote, @BlancheDevoreaux.....  I agree that Steve's line about being a cute bartender makes me kinda retch.  Sorry, I don't agree with him.

I also agree that Smith and Harry are the best guys on the show, but they don't have much competition.  Clearly, if guys like Blair Underwood counts, then HE wins, LOL!!!!  He was basically perfect.

Steve makes me physically ill and it obviously doesn't help his basic looks that I really do think he's got just about the worst personality ever.  He may have started out cool in his first episode, but they then made him a total moron.

[Gothish520]

6 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I agree with soooooooo much that you wrote, @BlancheDevoreaux.....  I agree that Steve's line about being a cute bartender makes me kinda retch.  Sorry, I don't agree with him.

I also agree that Smith and Harry are the best guys on the show, but they don't have much competition.  Clearly, if guys like Blair Underwood counts, then HE wins, LOL!!!!  He was basically perfect.

Steve makes me physically ill and it obviously doesn't help his basic looks that I really do think he's got just about the worst personality ever.  He may have started out cool in his first episode, but they then made him a total moron.

I wish they didn't do that to Steve, make him so immature the first time he and Miranda were together. But once they broke up, and then got back together,  I thought he was fine. I will always love the scene when Miranda finally tells Steve she loves him and wants him back.

Blair Underwood's character was a bit of a bore, and then when Miranda broke up with him he acted like a creep, so yeah, no thank you. I didn't like them together.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Gothish520

[andromeda331]

7 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

I wish they didn't do that to Steve, make him so immature the first time he and Miranda were together. But once they broke up, and then got back together,  I thought he was fine. I will always love the scene when Miranda finally tells Steve she loves him and wants him back.

Blair Underwood's character was a bit of a bore, and then when Miranda broke up with him he acted like a creep, so yeah, no thank you. I didn't like them together.

I wish they hadn't either. I remember the actor saying wish he hadn't either.  

[Bb78]

On 02/06/2014 at 2:02 AM, LemonSoda said:

All the men! Where to begin?

Did anyone else feel that most of the male characters were dumbed down over the years?

I felt Aiden was dumbed down to make it easier for Carrie to dump him for Big

Same goes for Maranda ditching Steve.

On 13/06/2014 at 5:50 PM, izabella said:

I liked Harry a lot, but I was never with him on the Jewish thing.  Ok, so he made a promise to his dying mother to marry a Jew.  So, basically, he got with Charlotte just to bang her and eventually drop her because she wasn't Jewish.  He never had any intention of having a serious relationship with her.  And that's fine as long as Charlotte was on the same page, which she absolutely was in the beginning.  But when that did change for her, he was all "*shrug*, you're not a Jew, never gonna happen, end of story."

Harry did end up marrying Charlotte and she coverted to Judism!

[Bb78]

On 13/06/2014 at 6:20 PM, Hanahope said:

Agree with above about Steve.  I always thought Miranda didn't know how lucky she was to have him.  If she really wanted some huge intellectual, she should have married one of the hundreds of men at her law firm.  Steve was completely devoted to her, except his one moment of weakness.  But it also did seem that Steve (and his writers) allowed Miranda to control most of the relationship, which marginalized him.

 

Charlotte was also very lucky in Harry, although yeah, it was definitely a big change for her to become part of the Jewish faith.  I think he did appreciate it, but it took a bit.  I always liked how he thought he was 'very lucky' to be surrounded by women (his wife and 2 girls).  So many men have a tendency to 'check out' a bit or feel 'out numbered' when there's no son.

I agree Miranda did not know how lucky she was to have Steve. The same goes for Carrie she did not appreciate Aiden. He was very nice , he had no skeletons in the closet never cheated was their emotionally. She had his full attention.  Which woman would not want a guy who was totally committed.   Aiden was tottaly their for her.

[Bb78]

On 23/06/2014 at 7:56 PM, cpcathy said:

I hated Trey with a passion. "All rightee." The thing with his mom. He was a moron.

I was not a big fan of Trey either.  He had mum issues. Big one . Take the scene with Trey in the bath while his mum is on the toilet chatting to him and then Charlotte walks in on them. Poor thing.

On face value he looked great, tall athletic build handsome.  He had a great job too. Its a shame he had impotence problem.

Harry on the other hand was a great match for Charlotte and at least she did not have to share her shampoo.

[Bb78]

On 29/06/2014 at 10:07 PM, MaryHedwig said:

Smith is my favorite.  Where did that twenty-something get all that character, compassion and maturity? I really believed that he loved Samantha for who she was.  The thought of him waiting by the elevator after Samantha had been with Richard just melts my heart.  I also loved how sure Samantha was that he would kiss on the mouth the receptionist at the breast cancer clinic.  I wished they had showed that scene (compete with the nun looking on.)

Smith was my favourite too. Not only was he eye candy but he was supportive to Sam when she was going through chemo.  Smith shaved his hair so that Sam would not feel shes going through losing her hair alone.  He looked even hotter with his hair shaved.  I liked Smith . He was kind, sensitive he always knew when Sam was not happy.  He knew how to foreplay by leaving romantic cards  around the apartment .  Sooo cute! He was great at spooning! Ultimate toy boy!

[cpcathy]

Samantha was a dumbass to give up Smith.

[Bb78]

On 18/07/2014 at 5:12 PM, Inquisitionist said:

At the end of the day, though, I think Aidan was right:  Carrie was never going to really commit to him, not in the way he wanted (and what he wanted is a pretty standard way of going about your life, IMO).  She wasn't even willing to talk about a timeframe for getting married, even though setting a date is implied by the act of accepting a proposal.  I think Carried wanted to have her cake and eat it, too, WRT Aidan.  He was much better off getting the hell away from her!

Carrie just lusted for Aiden. I mean look at him. Tall, dark rougid. 

He was not marriage material because she was not intellectually challenged he did not like going out much like up town resturants clubs.

He was a nice simple guy, a home body. Low maintence. For example he'd rather eat a bucket of KFC and watch the game than go to a fancy resturant and eat designer food.   Perhaps he would suit the older woman because he was happy to be at home and allow his lady to go out with friends. So that being said she would not have to worry about him cheating.

[clarkbethy]

On 08/08/2014 at 7:46 PM, andromeda331 said:

I was going to post this in Carrie's section but this is more about Big so this is probably the better place. I do wonder on Big though. Was it the big wedding that was throwing him for a loop or was it the marriage thing? And why? Was it because he messed it up twice and was worried about doing that again? I can't decide if its in character for him to be that worried about getting married a third time. Mostly because I've never been able to figure him out. I mean he tells Carrie he never wants to get married again then seven months later marries Natasha. He comes and goes from New York and then buys a vineyard. He also comes and goes from Carrie's life. Does he love her? Is he playing with her? What does he want? At the end of the series he decides he loves her and goes after her. Why? What has made him realize he loves her? 

Big had commitmentioned issues which is not surprising after 3 marriages. He liked Carrie he found her interesting.  I think he marriage her because he did not want to be alone . They were so different.  Look howith he was happy to be indoors watching black and white movies where as she was the outcome going type. Which begs the question why did she dump Aiden. He was a home bod. Perhaps Big was more Suave!!! 

Surprising that Carrie did marry Big after he jolted her at the alter the last time . That is not cool . 

According to the Arthur of Sex and the city she did not anticipate Carrie to end up with Big because she was a string woman who was a heroine of the show. I agree. I would of preferred her to still be dating until she found a keeper. 

[clarkbethy]

On 13/09/2015 at 11:54 PM, EarlGreyTea said:

I'm doing a re-watch of the later seasons, and I really loved Berger before it all went to hell. I loved Ron Livingston in Band of Brothers, so I was pre-disposed to love him as Berger. He was probably third in terms of who had the best chemistry with SJP to me (first two being Noth and Corbett). Anyway, he was so charming and cute in his interactions with Carrie in a way that Petrovsky never managed to be. I'm surprised it took the writers that long to pair up Carrie with another writer. Intellectually they were a far better match than she and Aidan. I really loved self-deprecating humor.

 

I'm disappointed that his ego ended up not being able to take her success, but it was so achingly realistic it hurt. Think of all the major Hollywood couples who divorced once the woman got an Oscar or surpassed the man in fame. There's a LOT.

Although Benger had his falts he and Carrie vibed. They were both quick witted they had fun! Unlike the Russian.  He was very cold . He was more like a teacher than a lover. I did not get that relationship.  Maybe she just wanted to try something different.  

[clarkbethy]

On 11/06/2018 at 2:03 PM, Jaclyn88 said:

What I never understood about Carrie is how she was so woe is me and expected everyone to feel sorry for her because Big played games with her, when she was worse than that to Aidan. She treated Aidan like crap, was mean to him for no reason constantly, and begged him to get back together with her only to drop him again like a hot potato after he agreed to work things out. In the movie, I was happy that Big did what he did because I couldn't stand Carrie as a character and thought she honestly deserved what she got ( I know that seems really harsh but when you look back to her relationship with Aidan, she did deserve that). But also, her character as a whole just bothered me. She was ALWAYS whining, always feeling sorry for herself, and constantly went after a guy who clearly was not into her and showed her that many times over. And she wasn't a teenager or even in her 20's at the time. She was a woman in her 30's who kept going after the unattainable guy who treated her like crap over and over again. I know Big decided he wanted to be with her in the last episode, but that always felt so contrived. He wasn't in love with her for years of her being with other guys, but out of nowhere because the last episode was approaching, he magically wanted to be with her then.

Carrie had great fashion . She was original. I liked that about her. Her choice in men on the other hand was a bit disjointed. She found see clearly they were not a good match but she still went for them even when they were unattainable.  I hated how she treated Aiden.  He was one of my favourite men on the show. Attentive,  low maintenance.  She had his fI'll attention unlike The Alex who had his head up his career.  I was not of fan . He was pretentious and annoying. That being said Carrie got what she deserved when her relationships fell through.  

[Jax7917]

50 minutes ago, clarkbethy said:

Carrie had great fashion . She was original. I liked that about her. Her choice in men on the other hand was a bit disjointed. She found see clearly they were not a good match but she still went for them even when they were unattainable.  I hated how she treated Aiden.  He was one of my favourite men on the show. Attentive,  low maintenance.  She had his fI'll attention unlike The Alex who had his head up his career.  I was not of fan . He was pretentious and annoying. That being said Carrie got what she deserved when her relationships fell through.  

Aiden was too low maintenance for her. She wanted everything to be BIG (pun intended). She was the opposite of a small town girl and was really only with Aiden because she thought he was cute and really, for no other reason. Once he showed her that he was very into her and was serious about her, she ran for the hills (twice). The show was very annoying because they then turned Aiden into a cheater in the second movie, as Carrie was apparently so irresistible that he would go against his loyal ways and become another cheater to add to the mix.