Right in the Lumberyard: The Golf Thread

[Carey]

10 hours ago, twoods said:

Figures Koepka is going to the LIV tour. With his social media it’s clear him and his wife are trying to build a brand, and what better way than a ton of money especially if you haven’t been playing well lately. He’s also following Bryson, whom I thought he had beef with. Good riddance to another douchebag I don’t have to watch on weekends.

To be fair, nothing's really changing here basically.  Outside of the majors (not too recently however), the guy was sorta not a part of the action on weekends anyway

[Rickster]

NY Times reported today (paywalled) that in a meeting with players, PGA Commissioner Monahan laid out a plan for next year that included bigger purses, less events at the end of the year, and……eight limited field, no cut tournaments.

[Carey]

I'm not going to label Jay's decision as LIV 1, PGA 0.  However, change is inevitable, and one  has to change a little to evolve against the times and competition.  IMO, I guess it's a draw, but no one & not much has changed right now

[AimingforYoko]

On 6/21/2022 at 11:10 AM, Rickster said:

 Nick Faldo retiring from CBS, to be replaced by Trevor Immelman.

Nick Faldo Retirement

He was far far better in the tower than I ever thought he'd be. He was so dry as a golfer. He was a great replacement for Venturi, and CBS's HOF lineup with Nantz, Faldo, Feherty, McCord, Lundquist, Kostis and Ian Baker-Finch was the best ever put together.

[Rickster]

Sort of embarrassed to admit I spent an hour or so yesterday watching the LIV Golf streaming from Pumpkin Ridge on a day where the John Deere Classic didn’t interest me.

I thought it was terrible. Really annoying brightly colored graphic scoreboard running down the left side of the screen, flipping between individual and team scores. But the worst, and seemingly a fundamental part of their concept, is the shotgun format for the tournament. It seems to make it extremely difficult to figure out exactly where all the players are relative to the leaders and each other. In normal play, if a player is four shots back, you know how many holes he has to play, how many the leaders have to go and what holes they’re playing. Yesterday, if it said Patrick Reed on 12, it wasn’t clear if it was his 12th hole (and if so, which hole it was) or the 12th hole on the course, and then how many holes does he have to play? I think it just doesn’t work for a viewer, unless they were to come up with much more sophisticated graphic scoreboards to clarify things.

Doubt I will watch it again.

[Carey]

The final major is just about to take place.  I believe the opening tee would be about an hour and a half from this post.  That’s EST.  One thing I love about The Open is the times of the event.  Morning golf, great venue, decent players.  Then it’s all over by mid Afternoon & I can do something else!

Here are the times; FYI Peacock opens on the first two days with USA taking over the action.  Then on the last two days, the latter (USA) opens with NBC taking over:

1:30 AM to 4:00 AM [Peacock]

4:00 AM to 3:00 PM [USA]

1:30 AM to 4:00 AM [Peacock]

4:00 AM to 3:00 PM [USA]

5:00 AM to 7:00 AM [USA]

7:00 AM to 3:00 PM [NBC]

5:00 AM to 7:00 AM [USA]

7:00 AM to 2:00 PM [NBC]

[twoods]

I hate being on the West Coast! I love watching The Open but I have to wake up at 6am to catch the end of it. 

[twoods]

It got very dusty in here when Tiger walked to the green on 18 with that applause and watching him get emotional. It was beautiful to watch.

[Carey]

Tiger's exit changes nothing for my viewership as I can't wait for the weekend action.  Early in the day, and I can move onto something else.  However, that was nice to see while emotional too.

I guess each coast has their pros and cons.  For instance, all the past and future big sporting events that start at 9 + the games taking forever to conclude (no thanks to reviews and what not).

Fortunately, 8 AM PST gives one some decent action, if one is okay waking up at that time on a weekend.

The top five include the Camerons, followed by Rory, and then Vik and finally DJ.  Smith (-13) and Young (-11) will be paired together.  I guess one could be mad at Hovland for wrecking the chance at a McIlroy/Dustin Saturday pairing, but at the end of the day, Hovland did quite well.  Plus, Rory barely missed out on the final Saturday pairing.  Fair enough.

Not sure I'll be available to post updates this weekend, for several reasons, but the final two days will be glorified enough that if you're into it, you'll know what happened at the end of the day

[CrazyInAlabama]

It was touching to see the crowd, and even the announcers, and other golfers be so lovely to Tiger Woods.   A truly heartwarming moment in time.    

This course won't be in the Open until 2027, when he'll be 51, and I can't believe his body will hold out for being a contender then.      In another era, with medical care that wasn't as advanced, he never would have been able to return at all.     

I'm very disappointed with the coverage.   The sticking commercials on the picture in picture is annoying, especially since the golf commentary goes away, and the commercials seem to be endless, and very loud.  

Edited July 17, 2022 by CrazyInAlabama

[twoods]

Ugh, back to awful NBC coverage after great USA coverage the first two days that showed a good number of players other than the 5-6 leaders.

[Grrarrggh]

The media has made a big deal about Tiger speaking out against LIV but from the quotes I read he barely said anything, good or bad, about it. He said absolutely nothing about why it is so abhorrent and only seemed annoyed they played loud music and essentially that golfers wanted easier money (which seems highly hypocritical....) Am I missing something in his comments?

[twoods]

No, they are trying to manufacture drama out of nothing. They are trying to pit the PGA players against the LIV ones, maybe in hopes of there being some future rivalry between the two, when so far it’s not even close.

Edited July 17, 2022 by twoods

[CrazyInAlabama]

I wonder how the majors saying they're thinking of banning the LIV players next year will change who goes LIV, and who stays PGA, and the other associations?   

I'm shocked, David Feherty has left NBC to join the coverage team for LIV.    This also includes leaving the Golf Channel.   Since the signing bonuses for golfers are huge, I'm guessing he's doing it for the money too.

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/07/18/david-feherty-nbc-golf-channel-liv-golf-series/

Edited July 18, 2022 by CrazyInAlabama

[twoods]

I think it would be a big deal, but even if they are talking about it it seems a bunch of golfers are ready to sign after the Open (Tommy Fleetwood, Henrik Stenson). Since Fleetwood hasn’t won a major, would being barred from the majors make him change his mind about being paid a lot of money to play exhibition-type golf? Who knows. Good riddance to them all. 

Edited July 18, 2022 by twoods

[Grrarrggh]

19 hours ago, twoods said:

I think it would be a big deal, but even if they are talking about it it seems a bunch of golfers are ready to sign after the Open (Tommy Fleetwood, Henrik Stenson). Since Fleetwood hasn’t won a major, would being barred from the majors make him change his mind about being paid a lot of money to play exhibition-type golf? Who knows. Good riddance to them all. 

But the world isn't rid of them, sadly. 

[Carey]

I have to say that of all the painful losses I've come across, both in an out of the sport of golf and in and out of sports, I think I might put McIlroy's fall at the top.  If not, I would respect someone saying that it's the toughest defeat ever.  I doubt I'd agree, but I would say it's part of it.

The reason why it hurts the most is that people usually win (a major) when they have a 4 shot lead and couple their final round without any mistakes.  Hats off to Cam Smith as he was the person I wanted to see win if it wasn't for Rory, but it would've been pretty sweet if he'd pulled it off given the golf climate, and his own situation.

I'm not going to miss the players that departed to the LIV tour.  First things first: football is pretty much returning in a week or so.  Then after that it's hoops.  Of course there's the Masters.  BTW, if they ban the players, I'm not sure they'll reverse it since their history of banishing people has a big history and ounce of permanency.

That being said, the hypocrisy, IMO, is that there are changes in everything, both in and out of sports.  It's all about the money, and that is fair enough.  I guess it's not the case if the player takes advantage of it.  That's fair.

I'm still okay with the PGA Tour, and there's no need to watch the LIV Tour.  There are players that will surface & fill the void.  It is fair enough to question whether or not the ones that bolted asked the tour for a raise or more money.  If they did, they would have a case; if not, then it's fair game for people to bash them for turning on the organization that made them.  Feherty's defect is a surprise and currently out of nowhere.  I do have to read about it more to see if there was motive.  It would've been anything but a surprise had he jumped from CBS.  Looked like he was content with NBC

[JTMacc99]

16 hours ago, Carey said:

I have to say that of all the painful losses I've come across, both in an out of the sport of golf and in and out of sports, I think I might put McIlroy's fall at the top.  If not, I would respect someone saying that it's the toughest defeat ever.  I doubt I'd agree, but I would say it's part of it.

The reason why it hurts the most is that people usually win (a major) when they have a 4 shot lead and couple their final round without any mistakes.  Hats off to Cam Smith as he was the person I wanted to see win if it wasn't for Rory, but it would've been pretty sweet if he'd pulled it off given the golf climate, and his own situation.

I was thinking something similar while it was happening. Then they showed the highlights of Cam Smith's round and it was just him draining one long put after another, and I thought "Yeesh. Not much Rory could have done about that."

[CrazyInAlabama]

There's more fallout for the LIV players, Henrik Stenson (? spelling) is no longer part of the Ryder Cup.   Also, the Champions tour, formerly the Senior PGA tour,  is now called the PGA Tour Champions, so there goes the chance of LIV players to switch to that later. 

I was shocked at Feherty switching to LIV announcing, because it wasn't just announcing, he also had his Feherty show that I found fascinating, and the Feherty live tour too.    I'm guessing at 63 (I think that's his age), maybe he went for the money, to secure his retirement, and for money to help his kids along the way.    It takes him from a full schedule announcing to only doing 8 to 10 tournaments a year, and I'm guessing a huge amount more money. 

[twoods]

I’m sure Feherty wasn’t hurting for money. And Stenson’s long, winded response on Twitter on why he went to the LIV pretty much sums that he went for the money. I can understand some of these players that suck and have barely made any money on the tour go for the easy pay out because they will never make money on the PGA tour, but I’m supposed to feel for DJ, Koepka, Bryson, etc for taking tons of money when they already made tens of millions to begin with? Yeah, no thanks. 

[Spunkygal]

23 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

There's more fallout for the LIV players, Henrik Stenson (? spelling) is no longer part of the Ryder Cup.   Also, the Champions tour, formerly the Senior PGA tour,  is now called the PGA Tour Champions, so there goes the chance of LIV players to switch to that later. 

I was shocked at Feherty switching to LIV announcing, because it wasn't just announcing, he also had his Feherty show that I found fascinating, and the Feherty live tour too.    I'm guessing at 63 (I think that's his age), maybe he went for the money, to secure his retirement, and for money to help his kids along the way.    It takes him from a full schedule announcing to only doing 8 to 10 tournaments a year, and I'm guessing a huge amount more money. 

Feherty’s show, which was really good, ended sometime after David’s son died of an overdose. 😭 he gave a farewell comment at the time, But I was also surprised when he went to LIV. 

[xaxat]

i really hope Charles Barkley doesn't make the jump to LIV.

[CrazyInAlabama]

13 hours ago, Spunkygal said:

Feherty’s show, which was really good, ended sometime after David’s son died of an overdose. 😭 he gave a farewell comment at the time, But I was also surprised when he went to LIV. 

They still rerun some of the Feherty shows, and I wonder if they'll stop showing them now?

 I can understand some of these players that suck and have barely made any money on the tour go for the easy pay out because they will never make money on the PGA tour, but I’m supposed to feel for DJ, Koepka, Bryson, etc for taking tons of money when they already made tens of millions to begin with? Yeah, no thanks.  (THis is a quote from TWOODS, multiquote isn't going to cooperate with me).

The players who went with LIV better bank that money, and invest wisely.    So many of the players you named were making tons more money from sponsors than from playing golf, and most sponsors have dumped them.   If the adminstrators that run the majors kick all of the LIV players out, then it might really hurt their marketability.     

Edited July 22, 2022 by CrazyInAlabama

[Rickster]

5 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

They still rerun some of the Feherty shows, and I wonder if they'll stop showing them now?

 I can understand some of these players that suck and have barely made any money on the tour go for the easy pay out because they will never make money on the PGA tour, but I’m supposed to feel for DJ, Koepka, Bryson, etc for taking tons of money when they already made tens of millions to begin with? Yeah, no thanks.  (THis is a quote from TWOODS, multiquote isn't going to cooperate with me).

The players who went with LIV better bank that money, and invest wisely.    So many of the players you named were making tons more money from sponsors than from playing golf, and most sponsors have dumped them.   If the adminstrators that run the majors kick all of the LIV players out, then it might really hurt their marketability.     

Since LIV does not have a broadcast outlet, I guess Feherty will be doing their Youtube channel ?

A lot of these LIV players, while popular, are probably calculating they are on the downside of winning big purses and would rather take a sure thing. As far as endorsement deals, they may be hoping that if enough players jump, sponsors and the PGA will have to cave.

[Carey]

23 hours ago, xaxat said:

i really hope Charles Barkley doesn't make the jump to LIV.

I'm sure several people on Planet Earth are hoping he doesn't either.  However, it would only be a big deal if he had to give up his current duties.  FWIW, it might be dumb despite the money, it's more in the short run than in the long run

Edited July 23, 2022 by Carey

[mojoween]

It was interesting to hear how candid Charles was yesterday when he said that Subway, Capital One and Dick’s Sporting Goods have all contacted him with concerns about him jumping from TNT to LIV.

However, if Charles has been a good investor, he could lose all three of those sponsorships and be fine.  I would be sad, but he won’t be hurting.

[Carey]

Of course, he might not be hurting at a point where he would need to jump to the LIV.

To be honest, I'm glad that he didn't go.  It's one thing to lose Feherty and others, but those are people whose biggest spot in the world of sports is the one's they're featured in.  Losing Charles outright would be a concerning since he's more known in hoops before anything else.

In my opinion, it might get out of hand if they start targeting people in other sports, especially one of the biggest two.  For example, it might be a big mistake on the LIV Tour's part if they tried to get Romo.  That's when it becomes a different story regardless of the money at hand

[xaxat]

Tiger Woods turned down offer in 'neighborhood' of $700-$800 million when approached to join LIV Golf, Greg Norman says

Even for a billionaire, that's a lot of coin.

[twoods]

I’m sure the PGA is thrilled that Tiger is a loyalist and didn’t jump ship, because everyone else would have gone with him along with the sponsor money. 

[Rickster]

6 hours ago, xaxat said:

Tiger Woods turned down offer in 'neighborhood' of $700-$800 million when approached to join LIV Golf, Greg Norman says

Even for a billionaire, that's a lot of coin.

I’d be curious when they made that offer, since Tiger has been barely able to walk for the past year and a half. It would make a big splash for sure, but how many tournaments would he play in, especially since he seems to want to play the majors as a priority?

[CrazyInAlabama]

17 hours ago, Rickster said:

I’d be curious when they made that offer, since Tiger has been barely able to walk for the past year and a half. It would make a big splash for sure, but how many tournaments would he play in, especially since he seems to want to play the majors as a priority?

I'm wondering if a part of getting that huge payout is that Tiger would have to play a certain number of tournaments every season with LIV?   That would make it over 15 tournaments every year, and I doubt there's anyway he could do that. 

[JTMacc99]

It's hard to see Tiger making a commitment to something like that tour when he knows he can't actually play.

Also, he's pretty big into the whole tradition of golf and such, so I could see him turning it down regardless of the opportunity.  

[woodstock]

And here come the lawsuits

Mickelson and others file anti-trust lawsuit against the PGA Tour.

Edited August 3, 2022 by woodstock
Spelling is important

[CrazyInAlabama]

That worked for the ones who sued to get into the Scottish Open, they were DP tour players, and did get an injunction and were allowed to play.    It will be interesting to see if the PGA monopoly suit gets the LIV players into the Fedex cup that starts next week (with the St. Jude's tournament).   I don't see why the PGA players who resigned to go with LIV should be allowed to come back for the Fedex and other events, they quit so should suffer the consequences.    I think that the suit is more to get them back on TV, and maybe get sponsors to pay them again.  

I hope the judge tells them that when you quit an organization, that you don't get to play in their tournaments.     I would laugh if the organizations that run the Masters and other majors tell them the LIV players are banned too.    The LIV players want to eat their cake and have it too.     I see no incentive to PGA players to stay loyal to PGA, and play in LIV for the big paycheck at the same time.   

I agree with Twoods post two after mine, they claim they want to have more time with their families, but yet they want a schedule that combines LIV, PGA, majors, and Fedex cup, and I bet Ryder cup too.   So, they just want every penny they can get, and don't care about their families at all.       

Edited August 4, 2022 by CrazyInAlabama

[Carey]

One could argue that there was an ounce of pettiness for those that actually quit the PGA Tour for the LIV.  I totally agree, if they don't get into the FedEx Cup playoffs, that's on them.  The ones that were kicked out might win, and it would be great to get them back on television in time.  As for regaining their sponsors, who knows?  That might come in time, but it's not a big deal if it doesn't play out this month

[twoods]

I thought the whole point of joining the LIV was to play less and spend more time with their families, but now they are suing to play more? You already have your guaranteed money to play exhibition golf, but now want to play competitive golf at the FedEx cup and make more money? No thanks. The PGA was clear that anyone that joined LIV would no longer be a PGA tour player. I hope those idiots lose the lawsuit.

[Carey]

They did it for the money.  I did hear people saying they wanted to spend time with their families & play less, but it was for the money, period.  Fair enough, who doesn't want more money.

I think a couple of people were straight up honest about it, but then came those that couldn't come clean.  They couldn't "tell the truth" which isn't a surprise.  Who knows how the lawsuit will play out?

Maybe the PGA has a case given the reasoning, but for me, I'm fine without the LIV.  I'll be watching Faldo's finale, and then the FedEx Cup.  After that, it's time for football.  As mentioned, there's too much to do before committing to a watered down product.

Sure the health of Woods makes it easy for him to forgo the LIV Tour, but the guy's done well enough to where he could purchase it

[Carey]

For what it's worth, the Wyndham Championship is not going to move the needle in terms of must watch TV in sports.  It's a decent program for (big time) golf fans as it's the final event before the Fed Ex Cup Playoffs.

I tuned in as the finale event is no different, but it's the final CBS telecast for the season.  They will not be covering the FedEx Postseason in 2022 (it's NBC exclusive).  Not sure I'd watch it for a second next year (unless Ian Baker Finch and/or Jim Nantz retires), but it was the last chance to see Faldo in action.

What a very special and touching moment.  I'm going to miss Sir Nick Faldo for sure.  Well done.  Cheers & congrats to Sir Nick.  Take care.

[Spunkygal]

I, too, will miss Sir Nick. I was surprised to see how emotional and choked up he was.I wish he’d return to do a major once in a while, like The Open. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

There's a golf channel posting, the judge in the case of the three LIV players suing to get into the Fedex cup had redacted contracts with LIV released.    The big incentive for the players to want to get into the majors?   There's a $1 million bonus if an LIV player wins a major. 

The rules and regulations for LIV contract is 60 pages long.   

https://www.golfchannel.com/news/us-district-court-publishes-heavily-redacted-versions-liv-contracts

I think the million is just a bonus, because the majors all pay well over $1 million for a major. 

Edited August 19, 2022 by CrazyInAlabama

[xaxat]

1 hour ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

There's a $1 million bonus if an LIV player wins a major. 

I'm actually surprised it's not higher. 

If LIV really wanted to recruit from the PGA, they would let dudes where shorts.

[twoods]

Aren’t these guys already paid an obscene amount? One million is probably chump change for them. They want the prestige of being a major winner and something a lot of these guys have been wanting their whole lives, and if that’s gone by joining LIV then what’s the point? I guess the ones that have won majors will just keep playing exhibition golf and not care, but I’m not going to shed a tear for those young guys (and the Lee Westwoods)  who joined for money and are now shut out of majors.

[JTMacc99]

What's the deal with the LIV players and the majors?  I can see how they could be prevented from playing in the PGA Championship (as it is  the PGA Championship.)  How could they be kept out of either Open championship? Aren't those literally open to anybody who qualifies?  And IIRC, the people who run the Masters make up their own rules. I would think they'll simply do whatever makes the most sense for their tournament.

[Carey]

I guess the Open and the US Open, like the Masters, has the right to control the conditions of their business as well.  The PGA Championship isn't as glorified as in the past IMO.  Whatever works best for the other majors would be okay going down the road.

I suppose the qualifications can change to target LIV players, but as mentioned, if it's set in stone, then I think it would be unfair to keep them out.  I might not care, personally, but there's such a gray issue here.

As for them missing the Fed Ex playoffs.  This past week was pretty great without them

[Carey]

The good news from the Fed Ex Cup: Patrick Cantley has a chance at history.  With a win this weekend, he'd be the first back-to-back winner of the cup.

The bad news from the Fed Ex Cup: No Zalatoris

The ugly news from the Fed Ex Cup: None unless you were planning on playing but not before participating in LIV.

The bad news is that Will will forgo the Presidents Cup.  It is what it is.  He's Tour bound, but I hardly think he'd have any shot against Scottie and/or Patrick for the title.

To add to the good news: Cantley already made history for his defense in a segment of the playoffs.  Since Day One, no one has even won in the same location they won the year before

[twoods]

Poor Zalatoris. Prior to his injury he had a great chance to win the Cup, or at least be in the top three. Gutted for him.

[Carey]

Fortunately the guy got his "long overdue" win before having to withdraw.  It may not be the major win or a win within a "significant event" outside of the underrated Fed Ex Cup Playoff, but it's still a big deal.  It still sucks.

One more thing about Cantley: while he earned the title last year, it was a tough beat for Jon Rahm & Kevin Na (especially the former).  They had a better week but based on the structure, it is what it is.  If Patrick wins on Sunday, that would be awesome, especially since he'll have to out perform Scheffler

Outside of FedEx news (and inside new stuff coming to "professional golf near you", here's something from Woods & McIlroy

[CrazyInAlabama]

The payoffs for winning the Fedex, and even top three are huge.   I can see why even the LIV millionaires wanted to play in that. 

[Rickster]

On 8/25/2022 at 7:36 AM, Carey said:

Fortunately the guy got his "long overdue" win before having to withdraw.  It may not be the major win or a win within a "significant event" outside of the underrated Fed Ex Cup Playoff, but it's still a big deal.  It still sucks.

One more thing about Cantley: while he earned the title last year, it was a tough beat for Jon Rahm & Kevin Na (especially the former).  They had a better week but based on the structure, it is what it is.  If Patrick wins on Sunday, that would be awesome, especially since he'll have to out perform Scheffler

Outside of FedEx news (and inside new stuff coming to "professional golf near you", here's something from Woods & McIlroy

The Woods & McIlroy concept seems like a mainstream golf version of Holey Moley.

[Carey]

So Rory McIlroy won the Tour Championship which (since 2019) automatically clinches the Fed Ex Cup for the winner of the final segment of the annual playoff.  It was amazing since he came back down six on both the final day and from Day One due to the structure.  By the way, Rory at one point was 10 back thanks to an opening triple.

I'll get into the trends & what's next after talking LIV.  Looks like no more PGA for about a half dozen golfers including Cam Smith, Niemann, and Varner.  So much for The Open champion's salty attitude about being asked about it last month.  However, Cameron did complete the season; who knows what's next.  He should be available to defend at TPC & next year's Open.

I don't know about the Masters, but I'm not going to lie: I'd have a rather huge grin if LIV players were banned from Augusta next April.  To be honest, I wouldn't have an issue either if they were allowed to participate (or even given an option to play back into the field).  Again, Reed & DJ should be allowed to compete.  As for Smith, I don't think he cares if he's barred from the PGA Championship or even the US Open.

At least the lack of decent players would help McIlroy, though like the WSOP, there seems to be an outta nowhere player take it.  Now, Scheffler or Hediki are anything but "outta nowhere players" but in the latter's case, he pulled through at the right time.  A better example would be 2016-2018.  The World No 1 was rolling.  Rory just can't start slow.  If he even has an average day instead, plus rolls into and in the weekend, the career grand slam is his.

There is a link (at least for me) between Rory and 2018 Woods.  McIlroy fell short in the Open; he fell short in the year's final major, before winning the Tour Championship.  The 4-time major hasn't won one in nearly a decade.  Woods had his drought too; it had been over a decade when he competed in the Open and the PGA that year (then the final major for the latter).  Both great performances.  Tiger wins the Tour Championship, and then in 2019 he wins the Masters.

Whatever happens in Augusta in 2023 happens.  However, it would be a rare case where we get nice things.  Pretty sure Rory would trade the FedEx record for a green jacket.  FWIW, if the LIV is still a thing, that could be the motivation and it could propel the season money record winner to his 5th major & first green jacket