S04.E16: I Have a Date Tonight

[RoadFullOfPromise]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I'm definitely okay with the show repeatedly telling us that Rebecca is beautiful. It's nice to have it verbalized that someone who is not a size 00 with bleached blonde hair and huge fake tits can still be considered beautiful.

Oh, trust me - I agree completely on that front! My issue is definitely not that she isn’t gorgeous (bc she absolutely is and the show is full of beautiful people of all types) but just that the show bends over backwards to kiss her ass at least once a scene and I find it exhausting.

[Yeah No]

3 hours ago, RoadFullOfPromise said:

Oh, trust me - I agree completely on that front! My issue is definitely not that she isn’t gorgeous (bc she absolutely is and the show is full of beautiful people of all types) but just that the show bends over backwards to kiss her ass at least once a scene and I find it exhausting.

Oh I agree.  I was agreeing on the front that 3 men are making complete fools of themselves for her all the time like she's catnip for men or something.  No doubt she's cute, smart, talented, etc., but all the OTT fuss is just head scratching at this point, especially given her mental issues keeping her from being ideal from a relationship standpoint for most of the series.

[andipandi]

Salmon for 60 isn't so odd if it was a Banquet not a potluck. But yes kids aren't eating that. I think that choice a) made it hard for Paula to make herself and b) easy for Greg. As for why newly well-paid Paula didn't just hire a caterer in the first place... mom guilt is a thing. This weekend I walked right past the cookies at the grocery store to get sugar to make cookies for a school party. I didn't have time, the party had plenty of cookies, but it seemed important that I actually make the things myself.

That said, moms these days use signupgenius.com to make these lists, so no camping out required! plates and cups do go fast though. 😉

Edited April 1, 2019 by andipandi

[quangtran]

11 hours ago, RoadFullOfPromise said:

Oh, trust me - I agree completely on that front! My issue is definitely not that she isn’t gorgeous (bc she absolutely is and the show is full of beautiful people of all types) but just that the show bends over backwards to kiss her ass at least once a scene and I find it exhausting.

Does the show actually do this?

They have a running joke about Bex being a 7.
They have a running joke about women finding Greg so sexy.
They treat Valencia and Nathaniel like they are both 10's.
Entire plotlines and songs were written around how hot the men are.

Other than people constantly complementing Bex's boobs, it seems like there has been a conscious effort to place praise over the supporting cast over her own character..

[RoadFullOfPromise]

59 minutes ago, quangtran said:

Does the show actually do this?

They have a running joke about Bex being a 7.
They have a running joke about women finding Greg so sexy.
They treat Valencia and Nathaniel like they are both 10's.
Entire plotlines and songs were written around how hot the men are.

Other than people constantly complementing Bex's boobs, it seems like there has been a conscious effort to place praise over the supporting cast over her own character..

Well, I’ve noticed that pretty much every time she’s near one of the guys, they always say how nice she looks. Again, not that that’s a problem in general, but it starts to feel like the show feels obligated to say something. 

[Eeksquire]

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It's nice to have it verbalized that someone who is not a size 00 with bleached blonde hair and huge fake tits can still be considered beautiful.

Plus when Rebecca herself did that (when she ran for Miss Douche), everyone was kind of horrified.

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I was agreeing on the front that 3 men are making complete fools of themselves for her all the time like she's catnip for men or something.  No doubt she's cute, smart, talented, etc., but all the OTT fuss is just head scratching at this point, especially given her mental issues keeping her from being ideal from a relationship standpoint for most of the series.

Well, and especially under the specific circumstances - Rebecca stalked Josh and then he left her at the altar, after which he apparently believed that she was going to murder his mother. Nathaniel spent months negging Rebecca, then when they got together, it was costumes and sex games and then she spent months as his side piece, after which she pushed someone off a building at his party.  SHE SLEPT WITH GREG'S DAD. You don't come back from that, I don't care how much of a cartoon the show is supposed to be.

Of the three, Nathaniel has the least weird baggage, but to believe that Rebecca and Nathaniel end up together after their shared history still stretches belief for this viewer.

[MrsR]

Cause she's awesome in the sack. They can't say that directly on the show but that's the subtext.

[possibilities]

On 3/31/2019 at 12:11 AM, DianeDobbler said:

 If the writing were strong, we'd KNOW why Rebecca was doing this, but I, personally don't. She is much better. She kind of quit re the apps after the Jason thing kept messing up, but WHY? It was one guy - there are other guys out there. She hasn't seemed desperate for love or thinking her bio clock was running down. ALL of this appears to be in response to somehow the guys deciding, and I don't get it, and it appears to be sloppy, not very feminist, and an icky fit for CXG. Not what I expected because Rebecca is not really a driver in this, and for God's sake, if not CXG, what show will do it?

THIS SO MUCH!!

On 3/31/2019 at 1:24 PM, DianeDobbler said:

When Rebecca got all dressed up for her date with Nathaniel I thought it was gross.

Remember the Sexy Getting Ready Song? Those were the days! These dates were not funny or interesting, it was just generic romantic fluff.

On 3/30/2019 at 7:13 PM, willowk said:

I think the show lost something essential when Rebecca got her psychological issues under control.

I actually think that stalking the therapist is a sign she doesn't have things under control. If they are trying to show us she's ready for a serious commitment to one of these guys, I completely fail to see how they are accomplishing that with this plot where she's fairly sane and happy enough, not looking for romance at all, three guys gang up and decide she has to pick one of them right away after going on one date with each, and she goes along with it but is so freaked out she stalks her therapist and ambushes her multiple times out of the office. To me, the whole thing is about how she's being sucked back into a dysfunction that she doesn't even enjoy anymore, she finds it draining, and yet she has trouble resisting it.

The therapist played it as though the stalking this episode was mildly irritating, but she went along with it, instead of having boundaries and insisting she save it for an appointment, something that never would have happened before, when Dr Akopian's message was always about having boundaries and respecting them. I found that really disappointing. The show used to actually take therapy seriously and now apparently it's a joke where the therapist will roll her eyes and make off-hand and ill-considered advice on the fly, instead of being professional and reinforcing any of the things Rebecca's therapy was supposed to be about, like NOT STALKING.

On 3/31/2019 at 1:57 PM, willowk said:

Actually would be fun if she decided not to choose and formed a polyandrous 4-some with them all living in a compound in, of course, West Corvina.

That's my vote!

Edited April 2, 2019 by possibilities

[bijoux]

8 hours ago, MrsR said:

Cause she's awesome in the sack. They can't say that directly on the show but that's the subtext.

Didn't they say it on the show, though? It feels like they have. 

As for Paula's salmon situation, where it misfored was at the end IMO. She wanted to have a better system for everyone. But she's really not that affected. She should have told that other mom off. Whatever, annoying mom. This is my last potlock anyhow, my youngest is leaving home in the fall. But you go on camping out and providing complicated expensive dishes no one eats for your two youngest. Ta. 

[bobbyjoe]

If the choice is between NuGreg and "nobody at all, she chooses herself," I'm going with "nobody at all".  It's not that I don't like the actor who's playing Greg now, it's just that I agree with everyone who's saying that this season hasn't really made a good argument for why she should end up with Greg (and in fact has spent much of the time showing scenes that strongly suggest they definitely shouldn't end up together).  If she ends up with Greg it's going to feel like that was the showrunners plan from season one but they haven't adjusted at the end to actually deal with what's happened the last few seasons.

Weirdly, my fantasy scenario for the three date episode would have been that during the dates Rebecca meets somebody else (maybe she coincidentally keeps running into this same person in funny ways the night of each of the dates) and she realizes that the reason she can't decide between the other three is that while she loves each of them in her own way they also each lack something for her.  The new person she's met could be someone who genuinely seems to the audience more fully in line with her, and the show could end with her starting to date this guy, optimistically, but leaving it open if even this will be the right person for her.

[Enginerd]

22 hours ago, quangtran said:

They treat Valencia and Nathaniel like they are both 10's.
 

No; Nathaniel is only a 9.6 (his breath is almost TOO good).

This entire situation is ridiculous, but given that the entire SHOW is a parody of ridiculous show tropes, it seems like a fitting way to go.

[Trini]

Finally caught up -

Loved the big musical number starring White Josh and the supporting cast!

Weird Al! Should have came sooner, man! Poor Dr. Akopian! But it was good to see her again.

To me, it seemed like they were giving those who like Rebecca/Josh and Rebecca/Nathaniel sweet scenes but signalling that Greg is the choice at the end. Maybe. But I think it's probably a red herring.

Still don't think she should be with any of these guys. I hope the finale focuses on more than just her love life.

[aradia22]

I don't feel like commenting on last episode. It was pretty boring aside from Paula luckily having secret card shark skills. 

This episode was pretty decent. I liked the whole The Bachelor angle though I think it's little bit of a lame excuse for holding out until the very end. I know they were trying for Guys and Dolls with the gambling but the only number that made me laugh was Weird Al's song about no bathroom in the balloon. However, they did bring the romance this episode. It brought out my inner fangirl, less because I was invested in the guys and more because they were just really cute dates.

Josh- This one was heart-meltingly adorable. I'm not Team Josh or anything but I think they did their best to recapture the magic of season 1 and remind us of that sweet version of Josh who would go all out for you so we remembered why Rebecca was so drawn to him. They didn't quite go for the sparkly glow but even the music cue when he was leading her outside conjured good memories.

Nathaniel- This one felt like the most like a normal date that was still very romantic and thoughtful. We were definitely getting evolved Nathaniel and not old Nathaniel on a budget. A picnic on a hillside with a great view within earshot of a concert venue? I mean, come on. The way they laughed together also felt the most natural. It was normal in a good way. 

Greg- I get what they wanted me to think but I didn't buy it. OK, so there's no fancy date and they know each other well and it's more like a real relationship. EXCEPT, this doesn't work at all with New Greg. I think even if it was Old Greg, I'd still be Team Nathaniel or Team Solo but with New Greg this is a flop. If you're going to have this new version of the character, one thing you really can't do is play on all of the old baggage and how much they apparently know each other. It's not a new start if you call on all these cozy memories and this chemistry... which isn't even what it was like when she was with Santino's version of Greg. 

I am somehow still looking forward to next week... especially the concert part, but I'm going to be annoyed if she just picks Greg. It feels wrong this way.

[aradia22]

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I'm having an "Is that all there is?" feeling knowing that the end is so near.  I was always about which guy she ended up with but somehow the show ending with a "Gee which one should I pick?" dilemma takes all the joy out of it for me and makes it feel somewhat fake.  I feel like they could have made her choice smoother and more obvious to the audience by now.  This for me just trivializes the entire series in some ways and almost makes me really want her to end up alone in spite of myself.  Or maybe getting me to that point was their intention in the first place.  I don't know.  I just think that no matter which way she goes at this point I'm likely to be somewhat disappointed.

I feel like I always get this way about A) shows with too many "viable" love interests and B) shows about mental illness. This is Being Erica all over again. Someday someone will get it right.

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Nathaniel is, weirdly enough, the one she has the least weird baggage with, but is also the one I think she has the least in common with. He has grown a lot as a person since he started the show, but beyond their issues with their emotionally distant families, they dont really have a lot lot to build a relationship on.

My brain might be broken from all these "flawed" TV shows but I think SMF's ability to run with whatever the writers gives him makes him a good choice for Rebecca. Is the writing for the character messy and do they seem to do retcons/heelfaceturns/etc. whenever they feel like it? Yes. But coupled with having the least amount of baggage, I think that's why it works for me. They have had some very sexy moments and as a character (Note: I'm thinking about what to do now that they've written themselves into a corner with this last episode) he works for Rebecca because they do have enough to build a relationship on... because he'll be whatever the writers want him to be for Rebecca. I get that this is not good logic in the real world but in the world of the show, all he does is change for her. They already gave him a high school past doing musical theater. Anything is possible. 

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For a woman who is so highly intelligent, she does not read. She LOVES the internet. She has massive appetites, she's an experience girl. She gets in there. Greg I can see coming home from work and wanting to read a book, or catch up with something related to the restaurant business while a restless Rebecca wants to have sex, or wants to be entertained, or wants him to snuggle up with her while she watches a nightime soap opera marathon. I've never seen Rebecca reading a book or enjoying classical music, both things I can see Greg liking. Nathaniel I can also see wanting to read or decompress by putting on the headphones and listening to ...modern heavy metal? Or doing a very structured workout in his home gym, and then going to a "lovely restaurant." For all of his being hung up on Rebecca, she hasn't changed him in a way that makes them more compatible. The stuff he likes to do and what he does with his time is all the same. He's learned empathy in structured situations, or so we're told.

I don't know if this is the biggest deal. People adapt in relationships. Even if you have some independent hobbies, when you have someone to spend time with, you figure things out. I wouldn't expect either Rebecca or her prospective partner to be as independent as when he/she was single. I feel like we've heard something about Rebecca reading (not for work) but I can't recall it. Regardless, I think you're both underestimating her and overestimating Greg. He's Billy Joel and Springsteen. When did we get the hint that he'd enjoy classical music? I think he'd be happy watching a movie on the couch with her. The problem is the Raging Waters problem that he's not a joiner and too snarky/superior. Rebecca can be that way too but she's also very enthusiastic about some things that Greg might rain on. I can see his unwillingness to go out leading to either holing up together at home in a codependent fashion or leading Rebecca to restlessness. I see Nathaniel as more of a potential classical music guy. I think they could have a totally normal relationship. They both go to work, he finds time to workout and she has her hobbies, and then they meet up for those nice dinners and sexytimes. I think their sexual appetites are matched in a way that with the other two guys it was always loaded (like that phase with Greg when she got the UTI). They wouldn't be in each other's pockets but if she wanted to go see a musical or go out dancing, I think he'd be happy to go with her. If she wanted to take a couples pottery class or whatever, I think he'd happily do that too. Aside from the sex, her relationship with Nathaniel wouldn't be that intense but I can see them being happy together. 

I agree that even if WhiJo lampshades it, it's still weird that they're all THIS into Rebecca. 

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When Rebecca got all dressed up for her date with Nathaniel I thought it was gross. The premise of this whole thing is really disgusting. How is this believable? I don't mean realistic - it's a comedy. But believable, with an internal logic to it?  So her first date is with Josh and its super intimate, they kiss, fall asleep in each other's arms. Then she resets and goes on another date with another guy where it's basically the same beats. Again, gross. Is this how intimacy works? It isn't. It's like the ability to generate it with three guys in three days just damages the credibility of ANY Of the relationships, not to mention Rebecca's own emotional credibility. I don't know how it's possible to believe in whoever she chooses. I feel like if two of the guys conveniently vaporized she'd be perfectly happy with who was left.

I mean, I don't think it's bad to date multiple people at the same time. The problem is that Rebecca has so much baggage with each of them and that she was still able to generate similar levels of intimacy. In that sense, it actually makes more sense to have a dating show replicate the experience of being on dating apps in the early stages of a relationship (granted, with an insane power imbalance of one to 20 or so) vs. having these three dates at this stage in knowing these guys when she should have more of a preference for one of them. 

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But with the guys, it's presented straight up. CXG is telling us, this is what love looks like. This is how they've proved themselves worthy of Rebecca. The inability to consider any other woman, even when YEARS go by.  This is love.  These three guys, not doing a single thing to achieve healthy non-Rebecca intimate lives even when cast aside, are apparently not unhealthy men who are dubious candidates for a healthy, grown-up, committed relationship, but rather men who have proved their devotion and earned Rebecca's in return. She, OTOH, has nothing but options and is happy to consider them all.

And her therapist co-signs all this without a qualm. If I had an ex who never so much as went out on a date or had a one night stand in the two years we were split, because if he couldn't have me he didn't want anyone, I would think there was something wrong with him and seriously hesitate about getting back together. 

I don't have the timeline straight but I know at some point Nathaniel went on one date and Josh had his dates from the online dating app and Greg was in a relationship when he went back to school. But I take your point. I think this is the poor writing that comes from some of the meta-ness you mentioned. The writers know what's going on and so they've stopped the characters from behaving naturally. It's like in a romance novel where the writer knows the characters are going to get back together after a separation so they don't sleep with any else because that would be "cheating" and betraying their love even if they are divorced, broken up, strangers who had a one night stand and had no intention of seeing each other again, etc. You shouldn't be writing anticipating your ending, or at least you should make it less obvious to the audience. 

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She acted like he was sweet and comfortable for her, but home's this funny thing that you can't go back to when things have changed.  He was really never more than a crush she had anyway.

I think it's also that this version of Rebecca has enough self confidence to not need him anymore. Part of what sold him at the beginning (even when we knew she was crazy and it was bad for her) was that her low self-esteem thrived off his love kernels. But now Rebecca has a much stronger support system and also more confidence in herself (though who wouldn't with 3 love interests chasing her around all the time?). 

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The two of them used to bring out the worst in each other and connected when they were both at their worst.  I don't see them bringing out the best in each other now that they're both "better". 

This. They were a shit show. And the show hasn't given us a reason to think those issues have been resolved.

[possibilities]

13 minutes ago, aradia22 said:

I feel like we've heard something about Rebecca reading

She mentioned Roxane Gay (who is real) and book that was not real but had a great title (something about blood??)-- I can't remember the details, but she used to be quite literate. We don't see her reading, because it's boring to watch someone read. But we've heard her talk about books.

[kathe5133]

If she was going to be with Greg, she'd be with Greg.  She had multiple opportunities to be with Nathaniel, and she isn't with him.  Josh as end game is just weird after the stalking/standing up at the altar/stocking/kidnapping his mother/stalking.  If Josh had a brain in his head (I know, he doesn't) he'd be long gone, not living with her!  I see no point of her being with any of them.  I'm just there for the music!

[willowk]

12 hours ago, kathe5133 said:

If she was going to be with Greg, she'd be with Greg.  She had multiple opportunities to be with Nathaniel, and she isn't with him.  Josh as end game is just weird after the stalking/standing up at the altar/stocking/kidnapping his mother/stalking.  If Josh had a brain in his head (I know, he doesn't) he'd be long gone, not living with her!  I see no point of her being with any of them.  I'm just there for the music!

I think I'm with you at this point. For me, Greg as a husband would be a continual drag on Rebecca, he doesn't like going to parties, doing romantic stuff, or even -non romantic stuff. He's the type that sits at home or is at work. Rebecca may love him, but would she be happy with that kind of life? Her social and recreational life would have to be separate from his. I have trouble with even how Josh and Becs have become roommates after all that's happened. To me it was odd how Josh slipped back into being in love with her. Nathaniel makes the most sense, but somehow I think the show has moved away from him.

[andipandi]

josh doesn't want to be alone and had a eureka moment. Also, a little bit of "hey, I wasn't done with that!" toddler sharing.

[WendyM]

I would like to know what the original plan was. I seem to remember reading way, way back when the show started, that they (Rachel and Aline) had mapped out the four seasons. They knew it would be four seasons (and hoped the CW would give them four seasons), because they had it all outlined.

I want to know how Greg would have fit into the four seasons. Because there's no way they knew from the pilot that Santino Fontana wouldn't want to do a TV series for more than one season (I read that somewhere recently; and that his wife is in NYC, etc.). They had to have been surprised. Right? 

Pure speculation: I can see that if Greg had been there for the entire four seasons, they would have had the typical rom-com love-hate situation. And then he would have been endgame, right?  The snarky guy right in front of her the whole time!

All this being said, I want her to end up with none of them. She and NuGreg can be buddies, Josh is her past, Nathaniel is a dream guy...but none of them works as endgame, IMO.

[AllyB]

On 4/3/2019 at 7:17 AM, aradia22 said:

I think you're both underestimating her and overestimating Greg. He's Billy Joel and Springsteen. When did we get the hint that he'd enjoy classical music? I think he'd be happy watching a movie on the couch with her. The problem is the Raging Waters problem that he's not a joiner and too snarky/superior.

That's not the Greg of S1. OG Greg was snarky and superior in part because he was genuinely unimpressed with the type of life he was living and in part because he was hiding from his own insecurities (I Could If I Wanted To). But he was also shown to have a variety of interests and passions. When Josh's "crew" planned a day at the beach Greg tried to talk them into going to a museum exhibit instead. Despite his lack of enthusiasm about going to the beach, he didn't sleep in like Hector and he'd gone to the trouble of creating a playlist of cool new songs from cool new bands for the road trip part. So while he's not necessarily got classical tastes, he is shown to be interested in music and branching out with what he listens to. When he and Rebecca were initially together, they were playing online Scrabble he was shown to be highly literate. 

The "I Hate Everything But You" song was absolutely nothing at all like the character of Greg we saw for a season and a half. New, evolved, happier Greg shouldn't really be like that either. Finally moving on out of West Covina and getting the chance to take the college place he gave up on. It should have helped with his insecurities while giving him a chance to explore the things he thought he should like and see if he actually did enjoy them or not. And maybe relax a bit and find that he could occasionally enjoy some low brow stuff too because as much as he used to grumble, he still did hang out with his crew. Part of accepting he could be happy in West Covina is accepting that he doesn't have to be one thing or another.

But that's all just another flaw in what has really been a very flawed season, where so many characters act in poorly written ways. It's why I just can't see NuGreg as Greg. It's very little to do with the actor change. I think that in a show like CXG that could actually have been done extremely well. But it hasn't been. It's just been super poor writing and this character bears no resemblance to the nuanced character of Greg, instead he's like he's been written by someone who just half watched the first 3 episodes and has based him on that.

Edited April 5, 2019 by AllyB

[aradia22]

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The "I Hate Everything But You" song was absolutely nothing at all like the character of Greg we saw for a season and a half. New, evolved, happier Greg shouldn't really be like that either. Finally moving on out of West Covina and getting the chance to take the college place he gave up on. It should have helped with his insecurities while giving him a chance to explore the things he thought he should like and see if he actually did enjoy them or not. And maybe relax a bit and find that he could occasionally enjoy some low brow stuff too because as much as he used to grumble, he still did hang out with his crew. Part of accepting he could be happy in West Covina is accepting that he doesn't have to be one thing or another.

Fair point. I still don't remember anything about classical music but Old Greg was not as much of a killjoy. I'm evaluating the character based on his self-professed flaws at this juncture. Old Greg would never be competing for Rebecca this way because one of the biggest roadblocks to their relationship over the course of seasons 1 and 2 was that Rebecca was always more into Josh than into him and New Greg should be trying to find something less toxic even if that was "his type of girl." 

[AllyB]

4 hours ago, aradia22 said:

New Greg should be trying to find something less toxic even if that was "his type of girl."

Tbh, at the end of the last season I kept thinking how very, very glad Greg must have been to have escaped the unimaginably worse shit show Rebecca was living and I was happy for him that he'd made the healthy choice to move on with his life in S2. I think that going back to Rebecca is an inevitable disaster for him. Maybe not at first but eventually, there is just too much water under their bridge.

It's also really, really pathetic for her to be the love of his life. OG Greg's main "relationship" with her just lasted a few days. The NuGreg and Rebecca dated for what, a couple of weeks?He couldn't and shouldn't love her at all. The whole bit with them ordering food and her complaining about how he always gets and changes their order hints at a familiarity that absolutely never existed between them. It's totally false. I like it far better when Greg was living a new healthy life off screen than this total retcon of him and their relationship.

[willowk]

I'm wondering if CEG is going to pull a "Dallas" on us and show that Rebecca has actually been in a mental hospital the whole season. I wouldn't like it, but just am having a hard time believing they are ending this on a "which guy will I choose" note.

[aradia22]

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The whole bit with them ordering food and her complaining about how he always gets and changes their order hints at a familiarity that absolutely never existed between them. 

Agreed. I'm not saying they have no memories to bond over. But that scene acted like they had dated in some healthy way. And most of the memories I can think of are from their friends with benefits bathroom sex period or times when he was comforting her about Josh or she was doing something to sabotage the potential of a real relationship. Not trying that great nearby Indian restaurant. 

I can deal with a retcon. They've pushed things with Nathaniel but it's mostly in the details. I buy the overall character shift. But they're really playing fast and loose with Greg and the more I talk about, the more it feels kind of insulting to the audience. 

[AllyB]

11 hours ago, aradia22 said:

I'm not saying they have no memories to bond over.

The thing is that their shared memories are of an absolute shit show of a relationship. It truly was a horrendous nightmare of a series of interactions. They had great chemistry and sex, they might be each other's type, but their history means they should at best be pleasant acquaintances for the sake of their shared friends and as owners of similar-ish businesses. Especially once you factor in Rebecca having sex with Marco. 

Edited April 6, 2019 by AllyB

[LisaM]

Loved the whole supporting cast in the song with White Josh. I think that practically everyone was there - including Mrs. Hernandez and the Rebetzel's assistant (whose name I have forgotten). Always happy to see Dr. Akopian.