S03.E08: Ghost-Like

[Racj82]

On 10/1/2018 at 5:24 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I loved Lawrence's dad (stepdad?) said that he was perfectly happy with his old flip phone and then recorded his whole advice speech on his new voicemail. 

It sounds like Nanceford was depressed and had to go home because he couldn't function on his own in LA without a stronger support system (no offense to Hot Andrew who is only one person). I'm not saying Issa should just forgive him right away because he had an entire MONTH to send her a short and simple text ("Had to go back to Houston. Don't know how long I'll be gone. I'll let you know when I'm back in LA" or something to that effect) just so she knew that he was alive and not ignoring her.

But I would like to put it out there that if it were any other kind of medical situation (cancer, surgery, etc), most people would be a lot more understanding that someone hadn't been in touch for a month. I don't think Issa is ready to forgive him yet regardless of the circumstances. Nathan isn't able to fully admit that he was depressed either so Issa can't be expected to read between the lines and figure it out, especially when she's still so hurt and angry. I think that if they are both willing to be very open and honest in their communication, they can work through this but it doesn't seem like they're quite there yet.

Molly has really shot herself in the foot at work. She has alienated herself from three of her coworkers already. Is she going to be able to handle this case on her own? I wouldn't be surprised if Taurean jumped ship just to let Molly fail so that she gets fired.

Oh, Chad. So you got your woman back by groveling and buying her expensive stuff? Sounds about right. And not because he's decided that she's The One but because he's too lazy to start over with someone else. That sounds like the great foundation for a marriage! I do love imagining Chad being forced to watch Project Runway though.

Molly pretending to fast for Ramadan made me laugh more than it should have. "I'm not Muslim but I want to respect it."

I can't wait to see more of the saga of Kelli and Quantrell. I can't blame her for ditching Julian if he wouldn't go down on her.

Kelli could get up out here with that. She has already admitted that she refuses to go down on dudes so whatever to that. 

[ZaldamoWilder]

12 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

Molly sucks at office politics but I don’t think what she did was that bad either. It’s not that she didn’t give Taureen credit; all the partners knew it was a joint effort. She did the presentation by herself because Taureen had a conflict. All of the presentation could have been avoided if Taureen has let the partners know, in addition to Molly, about the conflict and the presentation could have probably been pushed back. Instead he tells only Molly and quite frankly kind of put her in a bad spot - becaise the partners are then coming to her asking where Taureen is. And that’s why every college student hates group projects. 

Taureen was being real petty with the aggressive Molly comments and then dropping off the case. He should man up and address the issue and move on. He could have easily pulled aside and let her know that he didn’t appreciate her doing the presentation on her own after she gave him the impression that she’d let the partners know and they’d wait to do it together - and tell her not to let it happen. He sucks at office politics too. 

That was what she used to justify it, not why she did it.   If it had simply been a matter of scheduling, at the point where she made the conscious decision to fly solo, she would've sent Taurean or his assistant an email/note/call, something that said BigDawg just asked about the presentation, I told him you were stuck in court and gave him the choice between hearing it from me or waiting until you got back, he chose hearing it from me.  Let's chat later.    Which would've taken the responsibility off her and put it on BigDawg.  Problem solved.  What was she supposed to do, the partners wanted to hear the pitch right now.    I love the writing on this show.  This is how we know it wasn't a matter of circumstantial timing but manipulative on Molly's part:  when the Managing Partner asks her when Taurean is coming back she truthfully says I don't know.  He is content to wait until they are both available to present.   She offers to do it alone on the basis of being familiar with the work, however, what she intentionally omits is that Taurean asked to see but hasn't looked at her notes beforehand.   This is the part that I think is in debate.  My FB people are all like well why should she take a step to cover Taurean, dude is a dick there's no way he'd do that for her, matter of fact he's doing everything he can to step over her.  He is a dick, but he's not hiding his knife.   Telling BigDawg all of the truth wouldn'tve been about helping Taurean, that's how she would've protected herself.    Had she fully disclosed, there is no way he would've let her pitch alone.  That's what she's losing sight of.   Ethics are a huge part of the gig.   As a young starting out lawyer looking to be on the partnership track, the moment your Managing Partner has a reason to doubt your integrity, you're finished.   And that's a circumstance that she created completely unnecessarily.   Imma use your example ;D if you were assigned to work on a team project for which your teammate took credit and presented on behalf of both of you while you were stuck in traffic (a thing she knew but she didn't mention to your professor) be honest, how likely would be to find that sympathetic?  how likely would you be to want to work with her again? 

It's going to get even dicier for her if/when the boss ever asks Taurean why he's reluctant to work with her.     In my view, he didn't drop off the case, he gave her what she wanted - the ability stand in the spotlight, alone. 

[ShellsandCheese]

13 hours ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

That was what she used to justify it, not why she did it.   If it had simply been a matter of scheduling, at the point where she made the conscious decision to fly solo, she would've sent Taurean or his assistant an email/note/call, something that said BigDawg just asked about the presentation, I told him you were stuck in court and gave him the choice between hearing it from me or waiting until you got back, he chose hearing it from me.  Let's chat later.    Which would've taken the responsibility off her and put it on BigDawg.  Problem solved.  What was she supposed to do, the partners wanted to hear the pitch right now.    I love the writing on this show.  This is how we know it wasn't a matter of circumstantial timing but manipulative on Molly's part:  when the Managing Partner asks her when Taurean is coming back she truthfully says I don't know.  He is content to wait until they are both available to present.   She offers to do it alone on the basis of being familiar with the work, however, what she intentionally omits is that Taurean asked to see but hasn't looked at her notes beforehand.   This is the part that I think is in debate.  My FB people are all like well why should she take a step to cover Taurean, dude is a dick there's no way he'd do that for her, matter of fact he's doing everything he can to step over her.  He is a dick, but he's not hiding his knife.   Telling BigDawg all of the truth wouldn'tve been about helping Taurean, that's how she would've protected herself.    Had she fully disclosed, there is no way he would've let her pitch alone.  That's what she's losing sight of.   Ethics are a huge part of the gig.   As a young starting out lawyer looking to be on the partnership track, the moment your Managing Partner has a reason to doubt your integrity, you're finished.   And that's a circumstance that she created completely unnecessarily.   Imma use your example ;D if you were assigned to work on a team project for which your teammate took credit and presented on behalf of both of you while you were stuck in traffic (a thing she knew but she didn't mention to your professor) be honest, how likely would be to find that sympathetic?  how likely would you be to want to work with her again? 

It's going to get even dicier for her if/when the boss ever asks Taurean why he's reluctant to work with her.     In my view, he didn't drop off the case, he gave her what she wanted - the ability stand in the spotlight, alone. 

The only reason I'm cutting Molly some slack is that she didn't take credit for any work that Taureen did. She simply did the presentation by herself. All of the partners knew that it was a joint effort | venture by Molly and Taureen. I'd feel differently if she had been working with Taureen without anyone's knowledge and then boom she got in front of the partners and actually took sole credit for something they were both working on. There is a difference between the two.  As for me, if I'm stuck in traffic or in another meeting and I know I have a presentation that I'm going to be late for or possibly miss; I'm letting the appropriate parties know what is going on.  

I know this show is fictional but my biggest takeaway was that both Taureen and Molly were sloppy; and neither would get very far in a real life corporate environment. Too messy, too petty, and not good at relationship building. 

[ZaldamoWilder]

On 10/6/2018 at 1:00 AM, ShellsandCheese said:

The only reason I'm cutting Molly some slack is that she didn't take credit for any work that Taureen did. She simply did the presentation by herself. All of the partners knew that it was a joint effort | venture by Molly and Taureen. I'd feel differently if she had been working with Taureen without anyone's knowledge and then boom she got in front of the partners and actually took sole credit for something they were both working on. There is a difference between the two.  As for me, if I'm stuck in traffic or in another meeting and I know I have a presentation that I'm going to be late for or possibly miss; I'm letting the appropriate parties know what is going on.  

I know this show is fictional but my biggest takeaway was that both Taureen and Molly were sloppy; and neither would get very far in a real life corporate environment. Too messy, too petty, and not good at relationship building. 

I gotcha, I gotcha.  I still think we may coming at it from different angles - what she did vs. how she did it.  But I hear you.

This is where I get stuck on the doorknob, every single time.   While this is true, it isn't complete.   They don't know what they don't know.  And what they didn't know was Taurean essentially asked her to wait until they could present together.  

Lol! Please forgive my giggles.  This is a grown up and perfectly diplomatic response, but it doesn't answer my question lol.   You have time for one 20 second phone call before your battery dies.  You make that call to your project partner.   She then acts, in every way, as Molly did.   You cool with it?    

[announcergirl]

10 hours ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

I gotcha, I gotcha.  I still think we may coming at it from different angles - what she did vs. how she did it.  But I hear you.

This is where I get stuck on the doorknob, every single time.   While this is true, it isn't complete.   They don't know what they don't know.  And what they didn't know was Taurean essentially asked her to wait until they could present together.  

Lol! Please forgive my giggles.  This is a grown up and perfectly diplomatic response, but it doesn't answer my question lol.   You have time for one 20 second phone call before your battery dies.  You make that call to your project partner.   She then acts, in every way, as Molly did.   You cool with it?    

Hell no! And that’s who I work with right now. His ass will stab you in a second. Oh Molly acting ass!

Edited October 8, 2018 by announcergirl
Autocorrect is often wrong!

[ShellsandCheese]

13 hours ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

I gotcha, I gotcha.  I still think we may coming at it from different angles - what she did vs. how she did it.  But I hear you.

This is where I get stuck on the doorknob, every single time.   While this is true, it isn't complete.   They don't know what they don't know.  And what they didn't know was Taurean essentially asked her to wait until they could present together.  

Lol! Please forgive my giggles.  This is a grown up and perfectly diplomatic response, but it doesn't answer my question lol.   You have time for one 20 second phone call before your battery dies.  You make that call to your project partner.   She then acts, in every way, as Molly did.   You cool with it?    

Truthfully, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Unless I absolutely had to be there, I'd probably tell my partner to proceed without me, unless they didn't think they could handle it. But that's just my personality. And it has happened to me - I usually just do a quick group text with an update and go from there. 

[ZaldamoWilder]

10 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

Truthfully, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Unless I absolutely had to be there, I'd probably tell my partner to proceed without me, unless they didn't think they could handle it. But that's just my personality. And it has happened to me - I usually just do a quick group text with an update and go from there. 

A well thought out and very mature position. 

When you make it in and if you need us, @announcergirl and I will be in Conference B plotting your project partner's death.   Not a catered meeting, byobreakfast. 

[lasu]

OK, so...let me start by saying this is one of my favorite shows.  But, I'm concerned I'm like the Man in Black over on Westworld, and this show isn't meant for me.  I felt this a bit as well when I read Issa Rae's memoir, like some of it was not meant for eyeballs attached to a white person's head.  And then this episode really hammered home the idea of the "for us, by us" about the block party, and it made me wonder: should I be watching this show?  I can't be clear enough, I'm not mad about it. I'm not up on my high horse demanding the show make me feel more welcome as a white person.  It just made me pause and wonder.

[Dizzychickstar]

4 hours ago, lasu said:

OK, so...let me start by saying this is one of my favorite shows.  But, I'm concerned I'm like the Man in Black over on Westworld, and this show isn't meant for me.  I felt this a bit as well when I read Issa Rae's memoir, like some of it was not meant for eyeballs attached to a white person's head.  And then this episode really hammered home the idea of the "for us, by us" about the block party, and it made me wonder: should I be watching this show?  I can't be clear enough, I'm not mad about it. I'm not up on my high horse demanding the show make me feel more welcome as a white person.  It just made me pause and wonder.

I think only you can make this decision, whether you enjoy the show enough to stay. The character is a black woman, the cast is largely black and the writing cast is largely black as well, so that will influence the content, for sure. There will be references that you may not understand, and while that might mean you don’t catch every joke or understand all the nuances or impact of characters’ choices, for example, the universality of the experiences you’re seeing (combined with what other elements draw you into a show) may be enough of a draw to stay. 

I am used to feeling that way with most of what I watch because I really like sci fi and fantasy, genres that are very white and male. Sometimes the attachment I feel for characters is enough, and other times it’s not. There’s not much I could watch otherwise if I based the watching on whether a program was really meant for me.  

Beyond the connection I feel as a black woman watching a show about black women (and that feels super awesome and refreshing, btw), I also recognize some of my old relationship patterns, both romantic and platonic and watching it onscreen helps me to reflect—call it “growth.” So it’s also hitting that deep spot that for me that most shows don’t. 

I hope this helps.

[lasu]

13 hours ago, Dizzychickstar said:

I think only you can make this decision, whether you enjoy the show enough to stay. The character is a black woman, the cast is largely black and the writing cast is largely black as well, so that will influence the content, for sure. There will be references that you may not understand, and while that might mean you don’t catch every joke or understand all the nuances or impact of characters’ choices, for example, the universality of the experiences you’re seeing (combined with what other elements draw you into a show) may be enough of a draw to stay. 

Oh, I enjoy it a great deal.  My point wasn't whether or not I enjoy the show, it's whether or not Issa Rae wants me to watch it.  And I'm ok with it if the answer is no.  I'm not going to start demanding that white characters are given bigger storylines, nor do I complain or even care about how white people are portrayed on the show.  I understand it's a show told from the perspective of a black woman, and I understand the target audience is a black one.  But my question is if the show runners would prefer not to have a white audience.  I probably wouldn't have even questioned it, had it not been for reading her memoir earlier this year, because there were parts of that, like I said, that I really felt uncomfortable as a white person reading.  Not because it wasn't catering to me or I didn't understand, it just felt like I was snooping.  

[Enigma X]

3 minutes ago, lasu said:

Oh, I enjoy it a great deal.  My point wasn't whether or not I enjoy the show, it's whether or not Issa Rae wants me to watch it.  And I'm ok with it if the answer is no.  I'm not going to start demanding that white characters are given bigger storylines, nor do I complain or even care about how white people are portrayed on the show.  I understand it's a show told from the perspective of a black woman, and I understand the target audience is a black one.  But my question is if the show runners would prefer not to have a white audience.  I probably wouldn't have even questioned it, had it not been for reading her memoir earlier this year, because there were parts of that, like I said, that I really felt uncomfortable as a white person reading.  Not because it wasn't catering to me or I didn't understand, it just felt like I was snooping.  

I would assume that Issa Rae would want the show to succeed and have many people watch it. A lot of the show is black-centric, but a lot is female-centric, and there are parts that are west coast/L.A. centric. I am a black female but can't say that I relate to everything the women go through either. I still enjoy it. With that said I have enjoyed and identified with many an episode of Seinfeld, Queer as Folk, and a few of Friends but don't neccesarily think that any of those shows were written specifically with someone like me in mind.

 

I say if you enjoy it, continue watching it.

[Dizzychickstar]

I agree with @Enigma X  I'm sure she wants the show to be a success.  And while centrally black and female, have broad appeal.  If that were the case, I think she'd be aiming for a "blacker" network like BET or Centric, and even then, I'm sure networks, showrunners, etc. want all the eyeballs they can get.  I was trying to speak to how not seeing your @lasu experience on the show might suggest you "should't" watch it, and I get that you like it (you said it's one of your favorites), but it sounds like you read comments by Issa that lead you to think this way.  Honestly, the best source is probably Issa herself, directly asking on Twitter or seeing if you can find something about her feelings about a white audience.  Or reading comments from some of the white cast members on the show about their experiences--what it means for them.   

Edited October 11, 2018 by Dizzychickstar
adding a name

[scrb]

They did start out and had some other ethnic groups represented but when Issa quit her job, that was apparently the end of these minor characters.

I wonder if they evolved since the first season because it got a big following in the big community or maybe they found most of the audience who regularly watched was black?

 

Also hadn't thought about it but Molly switching jobs also meant she doesn't interact regularly with people of other races.  There was one episode in previous season about her trying to advise a younger black lawyer to switch it up or code switch with the white colleagues and partners in the firm.

[ZaldamoWilder]

On 10/11/2018 at 10:33 AM, lasu said:

Oh, I enjoy it a great deal.  My point wasn't whether or not I enjoy the show, it's whether or not Issa Rae wants me to watch it.  And I'm ok with it if the answer is no.  I'm not going to start demanding that white characters are given bigger storylines, nor do I complain or even care about how white people are portrayed on the show.  I understand it's a show told from the perspective of a black woman, and I understand the target audience is a black one.  But my question is if the show runners would prefer not to have a white audience.  I probably wouldn't have even questioned it, had it not been for reading her memoir earlier this year, because there were parts of that, like I said, that I really felt uncomfortable as a white person reading.  Not because it wasn't catering to me or I didn't understand, it just felt like I was snooping.  

Are we still voting?  Because if so, I’m raising a slow steady hand to say this is exactly why you should keep watching.  Minorities (I mean everybody) are well versed enough with mainstream culture to credibly imitate it or at the very least, assimilate into it.  The reverse isn’t true often enough because (imho) there isn’t a lot of genuine, guileless interest in differing cultures.   Damn, this wasn’t even supposed to be this wordy or Michael Eric Dyson-y but the point I’m trying to make is learning, hearing, laughing at/with, reading something you wouldn’t otherwise be invited to be privy to - that’s kind of the goal - inclusion - so I think it’s the perfect reason to keep tuning in.   She’s on hbo, trust me she wants white folks watching lol.

Another show that would provide some cultural insight is Atlanta on FX. I’m going to sound like a fan-girl cause I just discovered it but, funny as hell in the same insular thought bubble out loud way.

That having been understood, if it turns out that you’re some cultural double agent voyeur, I’ll risk the violation warning point(s) to come back and drag you for all you’re worth.   $5.99 or something like that.  

^said with love andplusalso? not a lie.  ;)

[announcergirl]

On 10/9/2018 at 8:08 AM, ZaldamoWilder said:

A well thought out and very mature position. 

When you make it in and if you need us, @announcergirl and I will be in Conference B plotting your project partner's death.   Not a catered meeting, byobreakfast. 

Zaldo, you laugh but I My need y’all. It is that bad. 

It is one thing to do it for the team. It is another to do it for your own selfish motives. That’s where the issue comes in with Molly. I think she is in the latter group.

[lasu]

On 10/12/2018 at 3:13 PM, ZaldamoWilder said:

That having been understood, if it turns out that you’re some cultural double agent voyeur, I’ll risk the violation warning point(s) to come back and drag you for all you’re worth.   $5.99 or something like that.  

LOL, I promise not to watch while wearing my MAGA hat.  I also promise I don't have a MAGA hat.

[ZaldamoWilder]

On 10/12/2018 at 7:46 PM, announcergirl said:

Zaldo, you laugh but I My need y’all. It is that bad. 

It is one thing to do it for the team. It is another to do it for your own selfish motives. That’s where the issue comes in with Molly. I think she is in the latter group.

Lol!!!!  This fool here.   I say lay low and play your position fam, people like this always get discovered.    Molly will too.  The partners think she cute.  Now.  Because they don't know the half.  They don't care when Taurean does it is cause he's a dick to his peers, but he hasn't lied by omission to his bosses. 

1 minute ago, lasu said:

LOL, I promise not to watch while wearing my MAGA hat.  I also promise I don't have a MAGA hat.

You said you really enjoy the show so we already know lol!  Girl how your freestyle mirror-rap skills?  We not renewing Kanye's contract and we gone need a strong power forward in the trade.

[ZaldamoWilder]

PSA:  nothing to do with Insecure but for all the blerds in attendance, the "theme" airing tonight at 7pm on your local abc affiliate is "Black Jeopardy" -  shit you not, I saw a promo this morning wherein I heard Alex Trebek announce one of the board categories as "What Had Happened Was".     None of the contestants are black.  If this is not finna be the most awesome fucking thing I've ever seen on tv......  

[Irlandesa]

On 10/11/2018 at 9:33 AM, lasu said:

Oh, I enjoy it a great deal.  My point wasn't whether or not I enjoy the show, it's whether or not Issa Rae wants me to watch it.  And I'm ok with it if the answer is no.  I'm not going to start demanding that white characters are given bigger storylines, nor do I complain or even care about how white people are portrayed on the show.  I understand it's a show told from the perspective of a black woman, and I understand the target audience is a black one.  But my question is if the show runners would prefer not to have a white audience

Her show is on HBO.  Now I don't know what the demographic breakdown is of their subscribers but I doubt that's the outlet she'd turn to if wanted to avoid white viewers.

I think all she wants--all any creator wants--is to tell her story with as little network interference as possible.

[Ohwell]

On 10/10/2018 at 1:16 PM, lasu said:

OK, so...let me start by saying this is one of my favorite shows.  But, I'm concerned I'm like the Man in Black over on Westworld, and this show isn't meant for me.  I felt this a bit as well when I read Issa Rae's memoir, like some of it was not meant for eyeballs attached to a white person's head.  And then this episode really hammered home the idea of the "for us, by us" about the block party, and it made me wonder: should I be watching this show?  I can't be clear enough, I'm not mad about it. I'm not up on my high horse demanding the show make me feel more welcome as a white person.  It just made me pause and wonder.

Please know that I'm not being snarky when I say I know just how you feel, because I felt that way when watching Friends and Seinfeld.  However, that certainly didn't stop me from enjoying those shows.  Especially Seinfeld. ; )

[ZaldamoWilder]

1 hour ago, Ohwell said:

Please know that I'm not being snarky when I say I know just how you feel, because I felt that way when watching Friends and Seinfeld.  However, that certainly didn't stop me from enjoying those shows.  Especially Seinfeld. ; )

Friends is one of my all time favorites too.  But wouldn't the difference be that each of those shows operated with the assumption that they were already representative of a cultural norm?  Like to such an extent that the executive producers were surprised to find themselves defending that there was no diversity at all on each show.   I think they responded with something like yeah this isn't about that we're just concentrating on the relationship between these 5/6 people, it's not race specific, let's not make that a thing.     Even though each of them lived, worked and commuted in New York City.    Is this starting to sound like Joanne's "it can't be racist, that's my hand"?   Lol.   

[scrb]

I'm not black nor familiar with LA, especially the areas they depict on the show.  There was that one episode this season where Issa walks the guy through the neighborhoods she grew up in.

But it's a cool side of LA.  Most of the housing stock is older and modest, not the glammed-out palaces people try to create with over the top renovations.

Then again, maybe there were budget limitations so they didn't build glamorous sets but I liked the look of the modest apt. Lawrence and Issa lived in and the one she lives in now.

Certainly a departure from the houses depicted in TV in general -- that apartment Rachel and Monica lived in in Greenwich Village would cost well over $10 million.

[lasu]

FWIW, none of my unease watching the show came from it being an all black cast.  I've watched lots of "black" shows before and never questioned if I should change the channel (I've been resisting Atlanta just because my mom recommended it.  I am both 43 and 13). This was just the first time I've ever wondered if the *showrunners* wanted me watching.   And again, even if the answer had been a resounding NO, WHITE GIRL, GO HOME, I wouldn't have been mad about it.  I know my presence can change the mood of certain rooms.

Do y'all think white folks would be welcome at the block party? I totally get that one of the other factors with the block party is that she is trying to do it in their own neighborhoods.  But what if they got a big enough artist that it would draw lots of white people?  Do you think that would be welcomed because it would help the event make enough money to be successful or resented because it was supposed to be FUBU?  Again, I wouldn't be mad, but I think honestly, it's rarely occurred to me not to go to something, even if I knew it was going to be a predominantly black event.  The only time I can ever think I've shied away is the opening weekend of Black Panther.

[Irlandesa]

I guess it'd help if you could share what you read that makes you feel that way because I never got that sense from the show.  But maybe I just didn't interpret something the same way.

It's one thing to say you make art for black people or her community, which is probably the case.  It's another to say you don't want anyone outside of that community consuming the art.  I doubt that's the case.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Irlandesa

[lasu]

22 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I guess it'd help if you could share what you read that makes you feel that way because I never got that sense from the show.  But maybe I just didn't interpret something the same way.

I expounded more above, but basically it was a feeling I got from her memoir (there were parts I felt weird about reading, like it wasn't intended for a white audience) combined with the block party storyline.

[link417]

If NathN (TM somebody, apologies!)  really is dealing with mental health issues, I can’t fault him for ghosting Issa like that. They were saying, not married, and the boy had to eat which meant cutting some hair while in Houston. It took a lot of courage for him to go back to Issa. I understand why she’s hurt but I hope she’s able to look past it and get back with him next season.

It felt like they were setting something up with that flower scene so I will be surprised if Nanceford isn’t part of next season. It was nice to see her choose herself first and get her actual house in order, though.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

On 10/3/2018 at 5:07 AM, babyPhat279 said:

Am I the only one who doesn't think what Molly did at work is that bad? It would have been better to discuss the issue with her co-worker directly but I honestly don't think that would have helped. He's passive aggressive and micromanaging, and it's better to ask forgiveness than permission. That's the way it is for me as a developer, anyway. And her co-workers aren't going to hate her, they'll move on in a few days and stop thinking about it.

 

On 10/3/2018 at 2:12 PM, Eyes High said:

No, she let him think she would cover for him and then taking advantage of his lack of availability to cut him out of the presentation. It was not cool, and to view her act of sabotage as a triumph of feminism as Molly did was some bullshit, since a man who did the same thing would catch just as much hell for undercutting his colleague.

I find this debate fascinating.  I can see that Molly could have handled it better.  A simple statement or email would have cleared this up and made it not be underhanded.  At the same time, I do see the difference between how men and women are perceived for this type of behavior.  Her coworker is a dick to her and it's accepted.  In my experience, had he done what she did he would likely be rewarded for taking the initiative (seriously, these are words I have heard in these situations) whereas she is being criticized and shunned.   

[Empress1]

On 10/15/2018 at 2:44 PM, Ohwell said:

Please know that I'm not being snarky when I say I know just how you feel, because I felt that way when watching Friends and Seinfeld.  However, that certainly didn't stop me from enjoying those shows.  Especially Seinfeld. ; )

Issa herself said that about Curb Your Enthusiasm - she's not a middle-aged Jewish man but she enjoyed watching the show, and when she came across cultural references she didn't know she either figured them out via context clues or looked them up. I think that's what she'd say to any non-Black people who love Insecure but may not get the references - she's not going to hold peoples' hands through it but she hopes people enjoy and watch and figure out what they need to figure out. I'm Black and in Issa's age bracket but I know very little about LA.  I either have to look that stuff up or wait for one of y'all to post information about it. Not knowing about LA doesn't affect my enjoyment of the show.

[ZaldamoWilder]

2 hours ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

I find this debate fascinating.  I can see that Molly could have handled it better.  A simple statement or email would have cleared this up and made it not be underhanded.  At the same time, I do see the difference between how men and women are perceived for this type of behavior.  Her coworker is a dick to her and it's accepted.  In my experience, had he done what she did he would likely be rewarded for taking the initiative (seriously, these are words I have heard in these situations) whereas she is being criticized and shunned.   

I do too.   Her co-worker is a dick to her.  But, I feel like their behavior is incomparable.   Taurean's noisy, nippy, splashy, annoying.   But, he's also completely predictable, dolphins ain't sneaking up on nobody.   Molly is smooth, calm, easy waters, there's no noise, and you don't see na'am one fin.   Then you get back to shore and your left arm's gone.     In case it's not obvious lol, I don't see this as gender bias.  If anything suffering no consequences at Taurean's hands is because she's a woman.  He would've, even if only figuratively, collared a male associate up for that shit.   She has been rewarded, by the partners until they find out the details.   Her coworkers shunned because they know they can't trust her not because they think she was out of her place.    Taurean is a whole ass, but he ain't never lie.  Chiiiiille.  Issa bringing us back to Genesis. 

Eve:   Why did you betray me?

Serpent:   You knew I was a snake when you started talking to me.