Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Sequel

[tv echo]

KM has hinted several times in interviews that Oliver & Felicity are forced to go to extreme lengths to "protect their children," "keep their children safe," and "save the greater good"...

-- KM: "As the season continues, we get more answers and it becomes very clear how dire the world has become in the future and the lengths that Oliver and Felicity had to go to protect their children. We don’t know what went wrong, but something went very wrong, very quickly for them to have to resort to these kind of measures." (Feb. 11 2019 TVLine article, page 9 of Spoilers thread and page 94 of Spoiler Discussion Sequel thread)

-- KM: "What it really does is, it shows you how dire the world has become and really the ruin that has come to Star City to force Felicity and Oliver to go to these lengths to protect their children." (Feb. 11, 2019 TV Guide article, page 9 of Spoilers thread and page 95 of Spoiler Discussion Sequel thread)

-- On why Mia Smoak and William Queen don’t know each other in the future, KM: "It all goes back to the ruin that Star City has fallen into and showing the real lengths that Oliver and Felicity had to go to keep their children safe." (Feb. 11, 2019 ETonline article, page 9 of Spoilers thread and page 95 of Spoiler Discussion Sequel thread)

-- KM: "And so, only the two of them [William and Mia] understand what it's like to have parents that - to have those parents that will sacrifice everything, including their children, to save the greater good." (Feb. 18, 2019 KM instagram live video, page 10 of Spoilers thread and page 97 of Spoiler Discussion Sequel thread)

So I can them cutting off all ties with William, sending Mia to live with maybe Diggle & Lyla, and then going deep underground in order to do what they need to do.

Edited March 2, 2019 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

11 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Oliver not being around doesn't have to mean anything, but it's pretty lulzy that not a single person has asked after him (and will get even lulzier if they stay vague about it until the fall - especially once future Felicity enters the picture).

Oh I agree but, I wouldn't be surprised.

[way2interested]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I'm want to see what 714 and 716 have to say but, I'm going to sit over here in my corner of Oliver is not dead and they're not divorced and whatever happened to cause his absence in 2040 SC probably didn't even happen that long ago. 

I really do think they're just keeping it super vague because they need to for next year's crossover. 

Yeah, I think the whole "what happened" event and Crisis are two separate things that they'll let people think are the same. And then they'll even top it off by ending the season with William or Mia asking Felicity to tell them what really happened to Oliver, still allowing people to think it's Crisis but also still letting s8 have its own pseudo-McGuffin in finding out what happened to/where is Oliver just like they have with Felicity with s7. Especially if s8 even does happen to end up be the last season, that way pretty much every focus will be on Oliver for all of the plots (present A plot, crossover plot, FF plot).

[insomniadreams88]

I’m just still hoping that we’ll find out Oliver told Felicity about the deal off-screen after Elseworlds. And then everyone else can find out next season. 

Maybe then we can repeat S6, with the others being annoyed they weren’t on the same level as Oliver’s wife — sorry, but until Diggle is back to being the Diggle I recognize, I don’t care if he knows or not — explaining the divide between everyone in the future and why it took a moment for Dinah to recognize Connor/she doesn’t know Mia. (Which would imply Diggle understands the secrecy/is let on/returns to the Diggle I like)

[jay741982]

2 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I’m just still hoping that we’ll find out Oliver told Felicity about the deal off-screen after Elseworlds. And then everyone else can find out next season. 

Maybe then we can repeat S6, with the others being annoyed they weren’t on the same level as Oliver’s wife — sorry, but until Diggle is back to being the Diggle I recognize, I don’t care if he knows or not — explaining the divide between everyone in the future and why it took a moment for Dinah to recognize Connor/she doesn’t know Mia. (Which would imply Diggle understands the secrecy/is let on/returns to the Diggle I like)

Agreed! If Oliver made that kinda deal Felicity SHOULD be the one who knows first not any one else. But these writers love Dinah so much she'll probably would know first which would make me rage.

[insomniadreams88]

18 minutes ago, jay741982 said:

Agreed! If Oliver made that kinda deal Felicity SHOULD be the one who knows first not any one else. But these writers love Dinah so much she'll probably would know first which would make me rage.

I don’t see that happening. Oliver and Dinah don’t have deep conversations. I just don’t want a repeat of the S6 finale, where Felicity found out about Oliver going to prison at the same time as everyone else. 

Plus it’s still unclear if Dinah trusts Oliver or not in the future. She’ll probably have a conversation with Roy about how now there are two kids they can’t trust because they’re Olicity’s children. 

But then in 716, she’ll probably have a heart-to-heart with Mia about Felicity and the Mark of Four, after delivering the “devastating news” before we find out Felicity’s alive. 

[way2interested]

19 minutes ago, jay741982 said:

Agreed! If Oliver made that kinda deal Felicity SHOULD be the one who knows first not any one else. But these writers love Dinah so much she'll probably would know first which would make me rage.

Dinah wasn't even in Elseworlds, so there would be no reference for him to even tell her.

3 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

But then in 716, she’ll probably have a heart-to-heart with Mia about Felicity and the Mark of Four, after delivering the “devastating news” before we find out Felicity’s alive. 

716 looks like Mia and William are on opposite sides from Dinah from the press release (probably from them maybe thinking Felicity is alive and wanting to find her while Dinah is more set on thinking she's dead and to get the bombs) and that Felicity's the emotional center of the episode. If anything, the heart-to-heart if there is one would happen in the 718 Canary episode since Mia who seems to hate the Canary Network looks to be fighting alongside them.

[jay741982]

35 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Dinah wasn't even in Elseworlds, so there would be no reference for him to even tell her.

716 looks like Mia and William are on opposite sides from Dinah from the press release (probably from them maybe thinking Felicity is alive and wanting to find her while Dinah is more set on thinking she's dead and to get the bombs) and that Felicity's the emotional center of the episode. If anything, the heart-to-heart if there is one would happen in the 718 Canary episode since Mia who seems to hate the Canary Network looks to be fighting alongside them.

Since some of us really like that Mia hates Dinah,  I can see these writers will proceed to have Mia open up to her which will make me gag and rage. Cause ya know per Captain Singh Dinahs just so awesome and has a Bigger heart than anyone(BARF). They will probably have Mia kiss her ass like Oliver and Felicity do which will be more Barf worthy 

[way2interested]

1 minute ago, jay741982 said:

Since some of us really like that Mia hates Dinah,  I can see these writers will proceed to have Mia open up to her which will make me gag and rage.

I mean, the writers won't do things specifically because some people do or don't like something and it's specifically because they made it so Mia hates Dinah that makes me doubt that that would happen, especially since the whole point of the FF is about the results of Oliver's choices (and to a lesser extent the other characters') in the future through his kids and not about Dinah. And they definitely won't do it in an episode when the whole episode is about the relationship between Mia and Felicity while Mia clearly has William to talk to about this stuff. The most I could see is that in 718 is that maybe after more information comes out via 716, Mia hates vigilantes less and then decides to work with Dinah and the rest of the group to stop the bombs.

[Mellowyellow]

If KM/Mia is popular I can see them forcing Mia to kiss Dinah's ass in S8.

They are hell bent on making fetch happen, desperate in fact. They'll do it and I believe it won't be because of plot but they need to sell her for whatever reason. 

[insomniadreams88]

3 hours ago, way2interested said:

If anything, the heart-to-heart if there is one would happen in the 718 Canary episode since Mia who seems to hate the Canary Network looks to be fighting alongside them.

True. I’m just expecting Dinah to continue to flip-flop when it comes to how she feels about Oliver and Felicity. “They’re horrible! Can’t trust them! Felicity’s evil!” “Here’s the Mark of Four. We owe Felicity. Blah blah blah” or whatever she said to William and Rene about it. 

[way2interested]

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

If KM/Mia is popular I can see them forcing Mia to kiss Dinah's ass in S8.

Tbh, I don't see how, since Oliver and Felicity themselves never really did that (other than maybe Dinah's first episode or maybe when Oliver was saying goodbye to Rene and Dinah, the moment when Felicity gave Dinah her mask she didn't even lavish praises on her or anything). Diggle, Rene, Zoe, and Singh yes, Oliver and Felicity no.

[insomniadreams88]

That sneak peek is boring. 

[jay741982]

42 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Tbh, I don't see how, since Oliver and Felicity themselves never really did that (other than maybe Dinah's first episode or maybe when Oliver was saying goodbye to Rene and Dinah, the moment when Felicity gave Dinah her mask she didn't even lavish praises on her or anything). Diggle, Rene, Zoe, and Singh yes, Oliver and Felicity no.

They are saving Olicity asskissing for the episode that's dedicated to her getting her groove back I wouldnt be surprised. So then Dinah has approval from the only characters on the show that weren't Dicks last season 

[Velocity23]

16 minutes ago, jay741982 said:

They are saving Olicity asskissing for the episode that's dedicated to her getting her groove back I wouldnt be surprised. So then Dinah has approval from the only characters on the show that weren't Dicks last season 

i dont think it works like that. Especially when mia blames dinah for what happen in star city

[Chaser]

1 hour ago, insomniadreams88 said:

That sneak peek is boring. 

I actually liked the idea of introducing Emiko but this hasn’t worked for me at all. I don’t like the S1 Oliver redo, the inconsistency with Oliver and pairing her off with Rene isn’t working for me. 

I would have preferred her to have admired Oliver and reached out in some way to Felicity at the start of season. Felicity/Emiko teaming up to try and save Oliver would have been more interesting.

[lemotomato]

I’m waiting for an explanation for why Emiko’s fighting skills match Oliver’s and now apparently is also equal to Felicity in  technical skills. 

[Mary0360]

Fun. So we get rid of Curtis who steals Felicitys skills only to replace him with Emiko who steals Felicitys skills while she's stuck in her apartment pregnant with Black Siren to talk too. Fun.

I really really hope Felicity has something else going on other then being pregnant in the present and evil and dead in the future.

[way2interested]

2 minutes ago, Mary0360 said:

only to replace him with Emiko who steals Felicitys skills 

Emiko didn't steal Felicity's skills. Felicity found the model of the gun that was used that Emiko didn't know.

[lemotomato]

16 minutes ago, Mary0360 said:

I really really hope Felicity has something else going on other then being pregnant in the present and evil and dead in the future.

They made it a point for Felicity to get total ownership of her company back when Curtis left. They’re probably going to do something with that.

[insomniadreams88]

I just wish we’d get a Felicity/Emiko scene soon, but I’m not counting on it happening in 714. 

[kes0704]

I hope the next episode brings to a close the “Emiko is angry at Oliver for things his father did that he didn’t know anything about” part of the story. 

I understand that she’d be wary about trusting Oliver but I think they’re treading a fine line with making her continually antagonistic to all of his attempts to reach out. 

It’d be great if they didn’t drag it out and they moved forward with establishing a better relationship between Oliver & Emiko and let her interact with Felicity as part of his family and not just limit her to Rene as the only other person she talks to. 

48 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I’m waiting for an explanation for why Emiko’s fighting skills match Oliver’s and now apparently is also equal to Felicity in  technical skills. 

I’d also like to know why she decided to wear a replica of Oliver’s GA outfit when she’s been so against him up to this point. If she doesn’t want anything to do with him why adopt his crime fighting methods and costume? 

Edited March 3, 2019 by kes0704

[way2interested]

26 minutes ago, kes0704 said:

hope the next episode brings to a close the “Emiko is angry at Oliver for things his father did that he didn’t know anything about” part of the story. 

I understand that she’d be wary about trusting Oliver but I think they’re treading a fine line with making her continually antagonistic to all of his attempts to reach out. 

It’d be great if they didn’t drag it out 

The thing is that in perspective they aren't really dragging it out. Oliver and Emiko didn't really meet until 711, which by the end of it Emiko agreed to take a step forward. 712 they barely interacted (where Oliver tried to save her and Emiko in return tried to warn Oliver), and 713 she wasn't in. Now in 714 they're going to work together. It definitely feels dragged out though since two hiatuses have gone by since meeting her including a whole episode about her where SA couldn't be in that much since he was in Chicago.

[Mellowyellow]

I just hope we are given moments for Olicity to discuss their baby instead of having Oliver chase around a perpetually shitty Emiko while Felicity processes the baby on her own cuz she's so damn understanding.

After the 150th I haven't got much faith. 

[tv echo]

The pic is more intriguing than the content of the filming notice...

(source)

[tv echo]

As previously posted, per IMDb, the 714 cast credits include actress Parmiss Sehat, who's playing a character named "Princess Noor." 

Assuming this IMDb info is correct, I've been trying to find out if there's a DC character with that name. Apparently, the Young Justice comics has a character called Noor Harjavti, who's the daughter of Rumaan Harjavti, the president of Qurac. Now, how this character would fit into 714 (if it does), I have no idea.

[insomniadreams88]

29 minutes ago, tv echo said:

As previously posted, per IMDb, the 714 cast credits include actress Parmiss Sehat, who's playing a character named "Princess Noor." 

Assuming this IMDb info is correct, I've been trying to find out if there's a DC character with that name. Apparently, the Young Justice comics has a character called Noor Harjavti, who's the daughter of Rumaan Harjavti, the president of Qurac. Now, how this character would fit into 714 (if it does), I have no idea.

Maybe at whatever thing Diggle takes the Ghost Initiative to? Didn’t the promo show some event?

[SmallScreenDiva]

I clicked off 30 seconds into that teaser. What a bore! They need to give Emiko some lighter moments or vulnerably moments because the sulky look is grating on my nerves already. She runs the danger of becoming the next Laurel Lance to me if she continues to look like she's always smelling something bad. 

[way2interested]

[SleepDeprived]

On 2/27/2019 at 5:52 PM, way2interested said:

On one hand, it's 719 chop-chop with wrapping this up. On the other hand, why is he in the bunker?

Speaking of, here's the guy who's probably playing him (unless this is someone else entirely I guess). Kind of blurry, I know, but anyone recognize him?

Kinda looks like either Keith David or Ernie Hudson.

[insomniadreams88]

38 minutes ago, way2interested said:

We better see this. If I’m going to sit through Diaz, likely more of pod Diggle, and Oliver working with Emiko and Rene, not to mention whatever we’ll find out in the FFs, probably something that tells us Oliver, Felicity and their family continue to be the ones who suffer the most, I want to at least see this. In 714. Not later. 

[way2interested]

Sitting through things means squat. It can always be youtubed later or seen on Twitter immediately.

[kes0704]

1 hour ago, way2interested said:

I’m trying to stay hopeful that this is something  we actually see Felicity tell Oliver onscreen and we don’t just return to him already knowing because it happened in offscreenville during hiatus. 

I’d like to believe that they recognise the importance of that milestone but it’s Arrow and there’s always the possibility they could mishandle the execution of that reveal. 

[jay741982]

16 minutes ago, kes0704 said:

I’m trying to stay hopeful that this is something  we actually see Felicity tell Oliver onscreen and we don’t just return to him already knowing because it happened in offscreenville during hiatus. 

I’d like to believe that they recognise the importance of that milestone but it’s Arrow and there’s always the possibility they could mishandle the execution of that reveal. 

Bet we miss it. Cause it's more important to see Oliver with Emiko Rene and Dinah and see Felicitys friendship with a Serial Killer 🙄. Sorry I'm bitter cause I've seen Felicity and Olicity get less screen time than Rene Dinah and Argus plots for weeks and its BS. 

Edited March 3, 2019 by jay741982

[Morrigan2575]

I wonder if Beth got some advice about spoilers or she's just relaxed her stance now that the season is almost over with? I'm guessing Mia was the BIG spoiler she was hiding and now that it's out of the bag she's more relaxed? She has been letting the episode titles out now.

I know people here hated her tight ship but, I'm going to cut her some slack this is her first season as show runner.

[apinknightmare]

1 hour ago, way2interested said:

Sitting through things means squat. It can always be youtubed later or seen on Twitter immediately.

What? You can't YouTube a scene or watch it on Twitter if it isn't actually in the show - which is why @insomniadreams88 wrote that she hopes Beth put it in the episode if all of those other storylines managed to fit in. 

[way2interested]

24 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

What? You can't YouTube a scene or watch it on Twitter if it isn't actually in the show - which is why @insomniadreams88 wrote that she hopes Beth put it in the episode if all of those other storylines managed to fit in. 

If the fear is that it's not in it and that sitting through things will be not worth it, then not watching it is still the best option, since the scene if in the episode can always be seen immediately after it happens is what I meant. Why worry about sitting through things you don't want to watch if it ultimately doesn't matter if the scene is either not in the episode or can be found on twitter?

Edited March 3, 2019 by way2interested

[Mellowyellow]

I think there is a thrill to watching it live and getting the scene you hoped for verses watching it later. 

Of course there is also the huge disappointment of sitting through crap like the 150th hoping for the one scene and not getting it. 

I totally understand the complaint. Haha I often tell myself to drop this sh@t show but I'm invested. So now I try to assume the worst. 

We will totally get lots of shitty faced, sneering Emiko. Actually quite a lot of the cast are stank faced these days. 

[apinknightmare]

5 minutes ago, way2interested said:

If the fear is that it's not in it and that sitting through things will be not worth it, then not watching it is still the best option, since the scene if in the episode can always be seen immediately after it happens is what I meant. Why worry about sitting through things you don't want to watch if it ultimately doesn't matter if the scene is either not in the episode or can be found on twitter?

Because even when people disagree with and dislike storylines they're still invested in the characters, and you can't follow their journeys by watching a single scene on YouTube or Twitter?

[way2interested]

7 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I think there is a thrill to watching it live and getting the scene you hoped for verses watching it later. 

I get that. I don't get watching in fear and anger/preemptive hatred when you can skip that and those scenes, not watch at all, just follow along on twitter and still get the scene anticipated in the practically the same moment as watching it live.

8 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Because even when people disagree with and dislike storylines they're still invested in the characters, and you can't follow their journeys by watching a single scene on YouTube or Twitter?

I was just under the impression that it was the scenes/storylines/characters people weren't invested (Diaz, Rene, Emiko, FF) in that was causing a fear, which then I still think the best option is just to skip. If there is an interest and just a fear of disliking it, there's still the option of just reading a recap or watching it later and just skipping to the good stuff?

[apinknightmare]

8 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I was just under the impression that it was the scenes/storylines/characters people weren't invested (Diaz, Rene, Emiko, FF) in that was causing a fear, which then I still think the best option is just to skip.

I don't care about Rene and Emiko, but their storyline appears to be with Oliver, who I do like and whose storyline I do wish to keep following! I don't care about Black Siren, but she appears to be teamed up with Felicity for at least a little bit this episode, who I also like and whose storyline I wish to keep following! I don't care for the dreariness of the FFs, but I am interested in learning about Mia. So...no, not gonna skip it. This is partly why there's no fast forwarding to "the good stuff," because it's often paired up with the bad. 

[Mellowyellow]

10 minutes ago, way2interested said:

23 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I think there is a thrill to watching it live and getting the scene you hoped for verses watching it later. 

I get that. I don't get watching in fear and anger/preemptive hatred when you can skip that and those scenes, not watch at all, just follow along on twitter and still get the scene anticipated in the practically the same moment as watching it live.

Hehe I'm at that point now. I don't even read the live thread anymore and just roughly keep an eye out as it's easy to spot it when fans get excited over good stuff.

Not everyone may have reached this point though. I know I didn't until a while ago. For myself personally with trivial things like this it's hard to give up even when you're 99% sure of the outcome. I think the tiny bit of hope is the problem. 

I hadn't reached zen for figure skating where I'm watching live and have my actual heart racing cuz I'm freaking out that my favourite will fall (and she falls a lot these days) but I still always watch live to hope for that glorious clean skate cuz I want to be there for it if it ever happens. 

[way2interested]

25 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

So...no, not gonna skip it

Cool, me neither, I hope it ends up good.

[insomniadreams88]

There’s always the chance that there will be something good in a scene even with characters I dislike that I wouldn’t want to miss. For example, the FF with Rene and Dinah that revealed the people with the Mark of Four. 

Plus I actually have never skipped an episode of a show I’ve really liked, like I like Arrow, despite its problems. (I even watched all the Buffy/Spike stuff even though I was all about Buffy/Angel and hated what they did with Spike.)

I look at it this way: if I could sit through 619 last year, I’m pretty sure there are no Arrow episodes I’ll skip before the end of the series. 

[statsgirl]

5 hours ago, kes0704 said:

I’m trying to stay hopeful that this is something  we actually see Felicity tell Oliver onscreen and we don’t just return to him already knowing because it happened in offscreenville during hiatus. 

I’d like to believe that they recognise the importance of that milestone but it’s Arrow and there’s always the possibility they could mishandle the execution of that reveal. 

I'm going to give Beth's intelligence the benefit of the doubt and say that she wouldn't have replied to the tweet much less in that teasing way if she didn't have the scene in. She would just have ignored the tweet.

Of course, I could always be giving her too much credit ....

[Mellowyellow]

11 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I'm going to give Beth's intelligence the benefit of the doubt and say that she wouldn't have replied to the tweet much less in that teasing way if she didn't have the scene in. She would just have ignored the tweet.

Of course, I could always be giving her too much credit ....

They've done A LOT of bait and switch to promote the losers this season. I don't know if Beth has any say in all the bait and switch and journos paid to hype up eps but based on what's happened this season it wouldn't surprise me if this was more bait.

[tv echo]

[insomniadreams88]

[insomniadreams88]

[Morrigan2575]

17 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

My guess is a Mia/William scene.

CRACK theory time.

Felicity sets off the bomb in Diaz's head in 715 and kills him 😁

I'm basing this on the Diaz killing Felicity nightmare resurfaces in 714. We know Felicity/Oliver find out about Diaz working for Argus in 714. Ghost Protocol appears to be over in 714 and KA did that I Love You All, Peace...no I'm not leaving...look over here I kill a Fan Favorite! Tweet and pretty much has been silent since.

So, I think KA/Diaz is gone after 715 and, I think Felicity kills him (or coma). I think Diaz comes after Olicity again in 715 and, she triggers the bomb to safe herself/baby and/or Oliver. Although I will also accept Felicity not killing him but over charging the bomb and putting Diaz in a coma.

This will lead into 716 with Flash Forwards/Flashbacks to Mia/Felicity and "evil" 2040 Felicity.

I know people will scream Felicity is EVOL!  However, I will cheer because Diaz is gone. 😁

Edited March 4, 2019 by Morrigan2575