Target Practice: Poisoned Arrow (The Bitterness Thread)

[Morrigan2575]

But that's not what happened in 213. Felicity had set up monitoring on a QC account which definitely falls into her purview. This was the same account she had been tracking since S1 when Walter had her looking into things. When she got the alert that money had been moved she went to Walter. When Walter blew her off she continued investing all of which was in her scope, the CEO should know what QC accounts are being used for. As CEO Oliver is responsible for the company and it's a publicly traded company which means they're accountable to shareholders and the Federal Government.

What if the money being used wasn't to hide Thea's paternity but was being embezzled or used to fund another secret project? All of Felicity investigation was well within her scope as Oliver's partner in both QC and Arrow business.

Now telling Oliver might be questioned but again she's loyal to Oliver, not Moira or Thea. However the idea that she was wrong to investigate is just IMO totally wrong it was a QC account she had every right to track it.

Edited May 31, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[HighHopes]

While I'm at the bitterness, who the fuck is Oliver or Felicity to get pissy with Moira about secrets and lies. Hello? Pot to Kettle? You're fucking black. Gah!

 

 

I sort of see it as Oliver and Felicity keep secrets and lies that only really effect them? The Arrow and what they do at night is about them, not anyone else. They aren't keeping a secret about someone else's life from them. Thea's paternity secret should not be a secret from Thea, as it effects her. It's her life and she should know who her real father is. 

Edited May 31, 2014 by HighHopes

[slayer2]

Guys, this is a bitterness thread. So I feel like I have a right to air my bitterness. The episode made me bitter towards Felicity, I'm liking her less and less as I watch the season. I don't think she craps rainbows and her duck faces are starting to bug me. I'd much rather give the screentime to Laurel, Sara or even Thea and Roy. I'm really truly getting sick of Felicity. Oliver should have someone else in on his secret, Moira should have been told once she shot him and she should have been off-limits to Felicity. Not impressed. I'd like to see Chloe try to step to Martha Kent like that, never would have happened, Clark would never have allowed. Know your place. Gah! God, I miss Moira Queen.

Edited May 31, 2014 by slayer2

[wonderwall]

Guys, this is a bitterness thread meant to air bitterness. The episode made me bitter towards Felicity, I'm liking her less and less as I watch the season. I don't think she craps rainbows and her duck faces are starting to bug me. I'd much rather give the screentime to Laurel, Sara or even Thea and Roy. I'm really truly getting sick of Felicity. Oliver should have someone else in on his secret, Moira should have been told once she shot him and she should have been off-limits to Felicity. Not impressed. I'd like to see Chloe try to step to Martha Kent like that, never would have happened, Clark would never have allowed. Know your place. Gah! God, I miss Moira Queen.

 

I don't think anyone who messes with Felicity would get out unscathed :p No but what the others were simply pointing out was the fact that there's a reason to everything Felicity does and a purpose and I think you missed that point. While, yes, it wasn't Felicity's place to tell Oliver about Thea's paternity, she really did war over whether or not to tell him and her decision to do so was admirable because she'd much rather keep her morals and not lie to her partner than to keep things from him. And she did give Moira a chance to tell Oliver. Moira in turn threatened Felicity. I think Felicity does know her place, that's why she was contemplating the entire episode whether or not to tell him. She's not some lapdog who jumps when Oliver tells her to. They're partners. They deserve to be truthful to one another. 

 

Chloe would never do that to Martha because Martha would never do what Moira did. Martha is an honest, good woman, everything that Moira was not. So it's not really a fair comparison to make :/ And if Martha ever did what Moira did, I don't think Clark would ever be angry at Chloe for telling him the truth. 

 

But I guess the rest is your opinion! Felicity truly does shrink into the background in the back half of the season, so maybe you'll enjoy the show more. 

[bluebonnet]

What's a duck face?

[slayer2]

I don't think anyone who messes with Felicity would get out unscathed :p No but what the others were simply pointing out was the fact that there's a reason to everything Felicity does and a purpose and I think you missed that point. While, yes, it wasn't Felicity's place to tell Oliver about Thea's paternity, she really did war over whether or not to tell him and her decision to do so was admirable because she'd much rather keep her morals and not lie to her partner than to keep things from him. And she did give Moira a chance to tell Oliver. Moira in turn threatened Felicity. I think Felicity does know her place, that's why she was contemplating the entire episode whether or not to tell him. She's not some lapdog who jumps when Oliver tells her to. They're partners. They deserve to be truthful to one another.

Chloe would never do that to Martha because Martha would never do what Moira did. Martha is an honest, good woman, everything that Moira was not. So it's not really a fair comparison to make :/ And if Martha ever did what Moira did, I don't think Clark would ever be angry at Chloe for telling him the truth.

But I guess the rest is your opinion! Felicity truly does shrink into the background in the back half of the season, so maybe you'll enjoy the show more.

Felicity isn't perfect, she's as flawed as anyone else and not immune to criticism which she well deserves.

ETA When someone screws up their lips to (for better or worse) emulate that of a duck. Felicity had a memorable one when Slade kidnapped her in the finale and was playing his stupid little game.

Edited May 31, 2014 by slayer2

[wonderwall]

What's a duck face?

A pouty face. Which, come to think about it, she actually doesn't pout that much at all... Unless she's high on oxy. I actually found Felicity to be quite fearless in standing up for herself and for Digg in the first half of the season. She rarely complains, she's brave enough to put herself in danger for others, and she never took Oliver's BS. Season 2 just illustrated just how strong a woman Felicity is. 

[catrox14]

 

Felicity isn't perfect, she's as flawed as anyone else and not immune to criticism which she well deserves.

 

Criticism is fine and acceptable. It seems that why and how Felicity did what she did was lost in the criticism of the character in this particular scenario.

Edited May 31, 2014 by catrox14

[wonderwall]

Felicity isn't perfect, she's as flawed as anyone else and not immune to criticism which she well deserves.

You're right, she isn't perfect! But that doesn't mean people won't defend her unless she deserves to be criticized, just like how you would defend Laurel if you felt the need to. It's good to see some perspective. Just because this is a bitterness thread doesn't mean it shouldn't be an opportunity to see how other people see things and why they see it that way! In no way were we trying to invalidate your opinions, we were just voicing ours. :)

[bluebonnet]

Ok, yeah, I was confused about the duck face thing because the only time I've heard of it is when someone's taking a selfie and purses her lips and I didn't recall Felicity doing a lot of camera or mirror gazing.  Or acting pouty.  Seems sort of weird to be bitter about the way an actor looks, but ok. 

[slayer2]

You're right, she isn't perfect! But that doesn't mean people won't defend her unless she deserves to be criticized, just like how you would defend Laurel if you felt the need to. It's good to see some perspective. Just because this is a bitterness thread doesn't mean it shouldn't be an opportunity to see how other people see things and why they see it that way! In no way were we trying to invalidate your opinions, we were just voicing ours. :)

Truthfully I don't defend Laurel in the bitterness thread 'cause it's here for bitterness so I'm not on board with what you're saying here. I think the response to my post is probably more suited to the Felicity Smoak thread but I suppose mileage varies.

[wonderwall]

Truthfully I don't defend Laurel in the bitterness thread 'cause it's here for bitterness so I'm not on board with what you're saying here. I think the response to my post is probably more suited to the Felicity Smoak thread but I suppose mileage varies.

 

Regardless of where you post it, the conversation will be the same. So why not post it on the bitterness thread? I don't look at this tag as a means for venting, I look at this tag as a means of starting a conversation. If you think someone is wrong, then try to make them understand your way. It's not a bad thing and no one will hate you for it. Plus, most of the comments about Laurel/KC go on in this thread and the Laurel thread so you really do have a limited choice... 

[slayer2]

I started it in TWoP's image as a bitterness thread to simply air bitterness towards any character on the show. No character should be immune to it IMO as this isn't a Felicity fan thread. I have problems with her character as I do other characters. I certainly hope this show doesn't become the Felicity show because I'm not bought into her awesome. Characters that can 'do no wrong' eventually become Lana Lang which I think is where Felicity is headed if she can't take a little flack. Everything she does isn't perfect and I'm tired of the characters acting as if it is. Once she gets more screen time she better get a personality besides snarking and hacking and drooling over Oliver.

Edited May 31, 2014 by slayer2

[wonderwall]

I started it in TWoP's image as a bitterness thread to simply air bitterness towards any character on the show. No character should be immune to it as this isn't a Felicity fan thread. I have problems with her character as I do other characters. I certainly hope this show doesn't become the Felicity show because I'm not bought into her awesome. Characters that can 'do no wrong' eventually become Lana Lang which I think is where Felicity is headed if she can't take a little flack. Everything she does isn't perfect and I'm tired of the characters acting as if it is. Once she gets more screen time she better get a personality besides snarking and hacking and drooling over Oliver.

 

.... I moved my response to the Felicity Smoak: Bitch with Wi-Fi thread :)

Edited June 1, 2014 by wonderwall

[Lisin]

OK gang, lets try to cool it.

 

• All of you have opinions
• None of you are "right" or "wrong" 
• This thread is for bitching, so that's what's going to happen here 

[wonderwall]

 

• This thread is for bitching, so that's what's going to happen here 

 

Ah my mistake. I thought the thread for conversation instead of just bitching :p I apologize if any of you thought that my comments were a result of me thinking I'm right and @slayer2 is wrong. I don't think that whatsoever. I actually enjoyed my conversation with them because it made me see a different perspective. 

[CabotCove]

While I'm at the bitterness, who the fuck is Oliver or Felicity to get pissy with Moira about secrets and lies. Hello? Pot to Kettle? You're fucking black. Gah!

Yeah I got fed up with the hypocrisy of some of these characters, especially the protagonist repeatedly not learning from his mistakes this season. I dont get the lack of empathy and understanding for other people's secrets, yet want others to respects you keeping your secrets!. 

 

But I guess the rest is your opinion! Felicity truly does shrink into the background in the back half of the season, so maybe you'll enjoy the show more.

 

I honestly dont think Felicity ever shrunk to the background at any time ever since the second half of the first season, imo. She definately never misses an episode, and I would bet she doesnt get less than 2 or 3 scenes an episode.  

[FurryFury]

I'm not the biggest fan of Felicity (she's probably my fourth favorite female after Sara, Moira and Shado) and TBH, I didn't like her interference in that situation. I see more as a clash between two characters with different agendas and opinions, though, not as someone being in the wrong while the other's a saint. But if I had to choose, I'd be on Moira's side, because I adore Moira :P However, Felicity's actions were in character - she had a good reason to be generally suspicious of Moira, and she's always been shown as too emotionally dependent on Oliver to keep a secret like that from him (much as I may dislike it).

 

While I'm at the bitterness, who the fuck is Oliver or Felicity to get pissy with Moira about secrets and lies. Hello? Pot to Kettle? You're fucking black. Gah!

 

Absolutely. Oliver was a complete hypocrite re: Moira, and the show never really called him out on that. I'm upset Thea even never learned he was the Arrow (no doubt the writers are saving that reveal to prolong/escalate their conflict in season 3).

[HighHopes]

One of my issues with the second half of the season was the way they handled Sara, and the Sara/Oliver relationship. There was a poster over at TWoP (sigh!) that said that Sara was suddenly everywhere, she was in the flashbacks, and in the present- training Roy, in the field with Oliver, working at Verdant, having Lance Family Scenes and also in a relationship with Oliver. It became too much too fast for me. Which is weird, because in the beginning of the season when we first met her, I loved her. I wanted more of her, and I wanted her to live and be happy and now...I don't want her to be a series regular next season. 

 

The Oliver/Sara relationship never really worked for me, and I did a rewatch of some episodes the other day with some other tumblr users, and we watched the League of Assassins. And in that episode, it felt like Sara and Oliver we past what they had on the island (and Sara even said that "some things are better left in the past". Then we cut to episode 2x20 and them in the hotel. When the spoiler came out that Felicity would be tracking someone down in a hotel room I prayed that it wouldn't be Oliver and Sara. And then it was. My issue with it was that the episode before we found out that Oliver was far too busy with his fight with Slade to worry about going into work and being CEO. This not only cost him his job and the job he forced his friend to take, but also his family's company. But he's not too busy to take the night off from this fight to sleep with his girlfriend in a hotel room he can't actually afford? That still bugs me today. 

Edited June 1, 2014 by HighHopes

[Password]

The Oliver/Sara relationship never really worked for me, and I did a rewatch of some episodes the other day with some other tumblr users, and we watched the League of Assassins. And in that episode, it felt like Sara and Oliver we past what they had on the island (and Sara even said that "some things are better left in the past". Then we cut to episode 2x20 and them in the hotel.

 

I was hopeful that the flashbacks would give me some understanding as to why they were acting like they'd been together for 2 years instead of a few weeks. It was very strange to see their relationship on screen. Then the flashbacks never gave me a reason to believe the two of them were that massively "together". There was a disconnect to me from the island to their present day relationship. And then Oliver and the moving in just made me go what? Whilst some episodes you'd never think they were even in a relationship.

 

I almost reject the notion that Sara and Oliver were a barrier to Oliver and Felicity. Too much of it made no sense. It was a theme in the second half of s2.

[icandigit]

If they were gonna give us Sara. I really wanted see Sara. I felt let down because I thought we would get more with her and Sin, maybe a story about her when she is beating up creeps in the Glades. Or maybe her enlisting team arrow in stopping a sex trafficking ring. I just wanted more of the "no women should suffer at the hands of men. I don't want her to take over the show, but I wanted more of what I was introduced to in the first place.

 

Many of the shows I watch now are generally only 13 episodes and they are able to  get a lot accomplished with multiple characters and story lines. I think watching 23 episode of shows now make me cranky, because they have more time but, lack the ability to execute solid storytelling. And so much characterization can be done with a scene or two here or there and that just doesn't happen.

Edited June 1, 2014 by icandigit

[FurryFury]

Eh, I've seen shows with full seasons that were great and 13-episode shows that sucked. It all depends on writing, in the end. Sleepy Hollow (and I realize that's a show that's greatly overrated in the circles I run in, thanks to great casting/chemistry) managed to squeeze in some absolutely unwatchable plots in their 13-episodes season one, and then there is stuff like Veronica Mars season one or Buffy season 3, that should probably be held as the golden standard of welded arc/stand alone episodes plotting.

 

I completely agree about Sara. I'd even venture to say her romance with Oliver was out of character for both of them, and I still don't understand why it was written. But then, I don't understand lots of things about Arrow's writing.

Edited June 1, 2014 by FurryFury

[HighHopes]

If they were gonna give us Sara. I really wanted see Sara. I felt let down because I thought we would get more with her and Sin, maybe a story about her when she is beating up creeps in the Glades. Or maybe her enlisting team arrow in stopping a sex trafficking ring.

 

That was my problem too with how Sara was handled. I wish the focus had been on her and her family, and less on her and Oliver. I really think that it should have been Sara who was struggling with the team and her place in the lair and not Felicity. Sara was used to working alone and doing her thing, so I think it would have been interesting to see her being the one who felt like she didn't belong on the team, and who was having issues finding her place and whether the team needed her or not. But instead she fit perfectly, and it was Felicity who was the one who no longer felt like she had a place. 

[FurryFury]

In a nutshell, they've created a strong, complex, interesting female character and turned her into (mostly) a love interest.

Edited June 1, 2014 by FurryFury

[catrox14]

In a nutshell, they've created a strong, complex, interesting female character and turned her into (mostly) a love interest.

I thought she was still a strong, complex interesting character who happened to also be screwing Oliver Queen. I really didn't think it diminished her characterization. She still kicked ass, she still problem solved, she still did her Black Canary thing as part of Team Arrow and made a big sacrifice to help save Starling City.  To me, her time as Oliver's "love interest" was barely a blip in her overall character arc. I would have liked to have seen more of their actual relationship away from the Lair o Arrow

Edited June 1, 2014 by catrox14

[Password]

What I disliked about the Oliver and Sara relationship is that she was barely involved with her sister. What we saw was her always fighting with team Arrow. There's so much unresolved issues there, that the final 2 episodes filled with Sara and Laurel interaction is my favourite side of Laurel in the entire series. It wasn't perfect. But I wanted for so long for them to not just be reconciled, but actively rebuilding that love and sisterhood between them. It was spoiled in an ugly way. Oliver is such an unwanted distraction to the Lance family.

[FurryFury]

I thought she was still a strong, complex interesting character who happened to also be screwing Oliver Queen.

 

She may have been, but in those episodes, she was his lover and partner, first and foremost. She did get a small amount of characterization/development when they broke up, but it felt like scraps, TBH. She was much more interesting and awesome to me during her first tenture in Starling City. But then, those episodes are the best the show's ever been, so maybe the problem isn't Sara/Oliver, but the writing in general.

 

I'm sorry, but I've always found Sara/Laurel scenes after their initial confrontation pretty artificial and unbelievable. I'd prefer if the rift was real and hard to work through. Instead, it felt like their issues have been magically fixed after Laurel decided to fight her addiction. Totally unconvincing (like everything else involving Laurel).

Edited June 1, 2014 by FurryFury

[Sakura12]

They may have been able to humanize Laurel a little more if they showed the sisters trying to reconnect now that they were older. Laurel thought Sara was dead for 6 years and Sara was far away from home for that time doing terrible things. It would've been interesting to see Laurel realize how much her younger sister had changed from that partying teenager to a world weary adult. It also would've been better for Sara to apologize for hurting Laurel by sleeping with Oliver and going with him on the Gambit. 

 

This show is first and foremost about Oliver so that's what the sister's relationship came down to. It was all about Oliver. 

 

I do feel that they didn't need to hook them up for Laurel to get mad at them. She still would've seen how close they were which would seem strange if they hadn't seen each other since the ship went down. Then at least someone would've asked if they were on the island together because the Lance's not asking that question to Sara or Oliver stills strikes me as strange. But that also meant that they lied to her about Sara being dead. That's enough reason to get mad since they lied her to about their affair before the Gambit. 

[Password]

I don't want to lambast Laurel for everything that happened between the sisters. The fact that Sara didn't as much as mention a "sorry for doing that with Oliver" gave her no favours in my eyes. It was within Laurel's boundaries to be mad at Sara even though they haven't seen each other in ages. I don't see how Sara bares no responsibility in trying to reconnect to Laurel, unless we're supposed to think Sara either doesn't care about her sisterly relationship that much or is too damaged to try and repair it. I don't buy any of it because she was sure ready to get back in the sack with Oliver and form their strange non-relationship relationship. Sara does a great job at defending her family, but there are so many things other than that to show ones love to family.

 

They didn't spend nearly enough time making nice with each other. If Laurel continued her screaming match after she found out about Oliver and Sara I wouldn't have been mad. I was mad when Sara was immediately forgiven and the apology wasn't two ways. For what? It's not something I understand. Oliver and Sara went through crucibles but Laurel and her family went through hell too. I'm not one to defend Laurel but that really irked me about the Lance family arc. Did they ever sit and talk things through? Is it something that will be addressed in s3? Or is everything ok and everyone's happy because the family is back together?

 

I guess I am frustrated that everyone seems to lob off responsibility on Laurel for not playing nice. She doesn't know a thing about what they've gone through. And whilst she hasn't asked, they haven't offered either. Communication goes both ways.

[Sakura12]

My point was it's Laurel that is not liked, she's the one that needs to win over the audience. Most people liked Sara and I did mention that Sara should've apologized in my post. 

 

Sara and Oliver are suffering from PTSD so no they would not want to talk about what happened to them, not even to each other. That was very easy to spot. So Laurel being the caring good doer and heart of the show should've been able to see that. From what they showed me Laurel just thought Sara didn't bother to call home because she was out partying for 6 years.

 

But again it goes down to only one of the two characters needs the fans. Sara's a kick ass character played by an action capable actress, so that pretty much gave her an edge. So the Laurel character is the one that needs the work. 

[Password]

I agree about the PTSD. I feel like I'm coming dangerously close to being on Laurel's side and that is frightening so I will stop. I'm not talking about fan reaction or expectation, but character. The lack of familial love put me off because Sara's end all and be all was at Oliver's side now. Really I blame the writers and EPs for everything. Nothing made sense, everything was a mess.

[statsgirl]

 

And whilst she hasn't asked, they haven't offered either. Communication goes both ways.

Laurel already went through that in Damaged though, when she was struck dumb hearing that 20% of Oliver's body was scar tissue and he revealed that he had been tortured.  And then he said he didn't want to talk about it.  You'd think that Laurel, seeing Sara's scars, would assume it was the same for Sara.  But she never so much as mentioned the scars, or asked Sara if she wanted to talk about what had happened to her.  Laurel was only concerned about herself and her feelings about Oliver, not about Sara and only about Thea when Oliver asked her to help (hello, bitterness!).

 

I think that Sara was thrown under the bus so that Laurel could have an addiction/growth arc in the hopes that the audience would finally realize what an awesome character she is.  That's why we didn't get any good sister bonding scenes unless it was necessary for Laurel's storyline, which is was for to AA and in the finale.

[FAU]

I hated that whole arc, it just brought everyone down for pointless drama and it didn't really have much of an impact in the end.

[Happy Harpy]

I'm sorry, but I've always found Sara/Laurel scenes after their initial confrontation pretty artificial and unbelievable. I'd prefer if the rift was real and hard to work through. Instead, it felt like their issues have been magically fixed after Laurel decided to fight her addiction. Totally unconvincing (like everything else involving Laurel).

I completely agree with this. Had Laurel been initially surprised and happy to get her sister back, and her anger resurfaced later, it would have made sense to me.

Whatever I think of Laurel, she was cheated on and had the right to resent Oliver and Sara for it, I agree with @ArrowLimbo. But delirious accusations of stealing her life, on top of making Laurel look stupid -since we know how Sara's life was- made the transition to sudden relationship advisor/best friend all the more jarring.

In order to be realistic, the sisters should have imo been treading carefully around each other, and above all Oliver and the Oliver/Sara relationship should have been taboo between them. The fact that Laurel was interested in Sara/Oliver, and not in what happened to her sister during the 6 years of her disappearance finished to make the portrayal of their relationship nonsensical to me...as you said, as everything Laurel-related because Sara is for me a well-rounded character and her background/personality made sense otherwise.

 

My problem with the Oliver/Sara relationship, aside from coming completely out of left field imo, was how insensitive they were both suddenly written. One episode, Oliver picked up on Felicity's being ill-at-ease re:Thea's paternity and the following episode, he didn't even notice her fear of being a liability for the team. He even was a jerk to her, which was imo totally out of character. Sara left town in the fall still certain that she wasn't worthy of her family, and all of a sudden she gets pissy because Laurel does hate her. The Lance family dinner? Epitome of their temporary assholery, YMMV and again, completely out of character imo for both of them. But looking back, I think Oliver/Sara wasn't even about them, but about Laurel.

I'm bitter about this storyline, because I love Oliver and I like Sara very much, and it made me dislike them for a while, and because it resurrected the sister swapping and made me fear that it would never ever go away.

[slayer2]

If they were gonna give us Sara. I really wanted see Sara. I felt let down because I thought we would get more with her and Sin, maybe a story about her when she is beating up creeps in the Glades. Or maybe her enlisting team arrow in stopping a sex trafficking ring. I just wanted more of the "no women should suffer at the hands of men. I don't want her to take over the show, but I wanted more of what I was introduced to in the first place.

Many of the shows I watch now are generally only 13 episodes and they are able to get a lot accomplished with multiple characters and story lines. I think watching 23 episode of shows now make me cranky, because they have more time but, lack the ability to execute solid storytelling. And so much characterization can be done with a scene or two here or there and that just doesn't happen.

Omg I loved Sin and Sara, I'm pissed they dropped that storyline as well. More should definitely have been done with the storyline about Sara defending women and Sara and Sin's friendship, that was a sweet relationship.

[FAU]

 

I'm sorry, but I've always found Sara/Laurel scenes after their initial confrontation pretty artificial and unbelievable. I'd prefer if the rift was real and hard to work through. Instead, it felt like their issues have been magically fixed after Laurel decided to fight her addiction. Totally unconvincing (like everything else involving Laurel).

 

It really was and it ruined the momentum this season had going on for the first half.

[Sakura12]

As for sister relationships I would've much rather seen more of Sara/Sin than Sara/Laurel. 

 

The whole Sara and Oliver going to dinner thing was just set up to magically cure Laurel. There was no other reason for it. They were both thrown under the bus for Laurel which seems to just be the ending of all of Laurel's "arcs". Everyone must be destroyed to pick her up. 

[Password]

I think my frustration lies with the writers overall. I don't understand Laurel even liking Oliver but Oliver and Sara grated on me. I agree that the characters had very about face actions and reactions in the show. Oliver becoming a hypocrite was one of the worst things about the second half of s2, because it came out of nowhere. He was just all of a sudden someone I didn't recognise. I sympathised with Laurel when she threw the glass at Sara, but everything else was unbelievable.

The problem is what I got was so far from what I expected. I would have far preferred them trying to fix their broken relationship than having anything to do with Oliver.

[Sakura12]

I could never side with Laurel, because the writing for her character never got any better. It didn't change to make her a better person or change her personality. Other characters were ruined to prop her up. 

[wonderwall]

What rubbed me the wrong way about Laurel finding out that Sara has similar scars to Oliver was the fact that she went to Oliver to comfort him and not Sara. It goes to show just how terrible a sister she is. Laurel up till that point really didn't have a friendship or a relationship with Oliver, yes, he will always be important to her, but what about Sara? They're sisters! I still can't believe she went to Oliver. 

 

I also can't believe just how easy it was to fix what was broken between Sara and Laurel. It's not that simple. Yes, years have gone by, but neither of them had closure, and that speech Laurel gave Sara was not closure. It was basically Laurel admitting to being at fault for everything when she wasn't. It made Laurel look like even more of a doormat because it was the almighty Oliver who yelled at her made her think that it was her fault. 

 

Relationships are about communication. There was very minimum communication between the sisters and between Laurel/Oliver that it's so hard for me to believe that everything has been fixed. 

 

So if anything, Laurel's arc didn't show me that she was stronger than we realized by overcoming addiction and patching things up with her family, it showed me that she's weaker and would sooner let people take advantage of her and trample all over her before she even fixes herself. 

 

This goes to show that the Lance family drama not only dragged Sara and Laurel down, but it also regressed Oliver's character and even to some point, the supporting characters like Digg and Felicity who were basically sidelined most of the second half of the season. 

 

So I've come to the conclusion that Lance family drama = Black hole. Please let's not revisit this arc again. 

[FAU]

 

So I've come to the conclusion that Lance family drama = Black hole. Please let's not revisit this arc again.

 

Exactly, but they might since they forcing her as BC.

[Sakura12]

For me it's Laurel that's the black hole of suck. I would've liked to see Sara talk with her parents, talk to her mother that never believed she was dead. Dinah pretty much left without saying one word to Sara. Have more conversations with Quentin because that's another relationship I really enjoyed watching. So the Lance family minus Laurel is what I wanted to see.

[icandigit]

So you think a story involving Sara returning home from the dead should include interactions with her parents.  You silly goose.:)

[Happy Harpy]

For me it's Laurel that's the black hole of suck. I would've liked to see Sara talk with her parents, talk to her mother that never believed she was dead. Dinah pretty much left without saying one word to Sara.

Oh, yes. I would have liked Sara to know that her mother never gave up on her...and it would have been interesting to see Laurel confronted to what she did then (and it should have added some awkwardness between the sisters, way more interesting than anything Oliver-related).

I was in the minority of those who liked Dinah the first time around. She had given a levity to Quentin, who was in full Javert mode at the time. She was energetic and had a purpose. I just didn't recognize that wet blanket who got kidnapped by Nyssa...probably because pill-popping Laurel was set to glass-hurling and hence not available as designated victim.

 

Exactly, but they might since they forcing her as BC.

And here is the mother of all the bitterness for me.

I had the feeling that the writers had achieved a balance between following a plan (at least a direction) and adapting to the "living creature" that an ongoing show is; tweaking what didn't work, keeping and expanding what did. Imo, they did what they wanted while taking what worked or not with the audience in consideration.

 

And suddenly, they don't seem to care anymore and force things (Slade's reveal, Arrowcave invasion, Sara's nonsensical send off) because "Laurel has to be the BC and Oliver's OTL" (That is, if what KC says is true, but I hear crickets chirpings instead of denials from the writers' part, sooo...).

Edited June 1, 2014 by Happy Harpy

[Sakura12]

*hangs head in shame* I don't know what I was thinking.

[FAU]

So you think a story involving Sara returning home from the dead should include interactions with her parents.  You silly goose.:)

 

That all got retconned in the finale with Laurel being thrilled to get rid of her long lost sister and she scored extra with Quentin being injured.

[Carrie Ann]

My unpopular opinion is that the one moment of this season that I believed and appreciated Laurel was when she said that when the ship went down, she felt like all three of them died, but when first Oliver and then Sara came back, she realized that she was the only one who'd died, and that they were both strong and beautiful and she was not. That actually rang really true to me--how awful a feeling that would be. Not that she wished they'd died (although, she did basically say that to both of them), but that because they hadn't, it threw her own emptiness into stark relief.

 

If the rest of Laurel's actions reflected this moment, I would find that much more moving and authentic. If you could see her struggle--between being happy Oliver and Sara are alive and being envious of their vivacity, between using her anger to fuel her work and using substances to get through every day, between wanting to do good but not really believing in good anymore--I would be more interested in that.

 

But instead, the show wants her to just be some bastion of moral certitude and goodness. But they can't quite pull it off, so we end up with the flip-flopping, where we never know what to believe, so nothing ever seems true. With Oliver, it's all "Come here/Go away," sometimes within a single episode. Then there's the weird blackmail to get her job back, and "sometimes when you let the darkness in, it never comes out," which happened in Ep 17, and then we never saw another moment that hinted at that darkness.

 

Ah, I'm just so bummed about this character because it's the one sour note for me on a show that otherwise hits them all. And even if she's not my favorite, I can see where things could have been improved, but I don't think the writers feel the same, so now I just dread being stuck with this off-note in my show until the bitter end.

[dtissagirl]

Ah, I'm just so bummed about this character because it's the one sour note for me on a show that otherwise hits them all. And even if she's not my favorite, I can see where things could have been improved, but I don't think the writers feel the same, so now I just dread being stuck with this off-note in my show until the bitter end.

 

Exactly. I share this same disconnect while watching the show. I might be irked by the writing of the other characters sometimes, but I legit get a sense of dread whenever Laurel shows up, because she pulls me right off the story. To the point that I stopped watching Arrow live when the Lance Sisters Drama started, so I could have quick access to the fast-forwarding button. I only went back to live-watching in the finale.

[tv echo]

I was Googling "arrow season 3" and came across this article.  If this link has already been posted, I apologize for posting it again.  But it's new to me, and I just had to vent.

 

UGH!!  It sounds like my two least favorite characters on Arrow are getting more screen time next season:

 

https://uk.tv.yahoo.com/colton-haynes-katie-cassidy-talk-arrow-season-3-145400921.html

 

If this is the focus of Season 3, then I may be checking out what's on competing channels.  

 

I'm a (core) Team Arrow fan, so I'd like them to be front and center.  However, I respect that others may have different opinions.

[quarks]

That article is mostly just repeating previous quotes. I don't doubt that Roy is going to be around with his status upped a little bit, but that statement right there makes it even harder to assume that Laurel will have an increased role. "Status upped a little bit" suggests that mirakuru-free Roy will get to do missions, which further lessens "things Laurel can do on the show."  After all, one minor reason why Sara was fighting next to Oliver was because Mirakuru Roy couldn't be trusted to hold himself together. If Roy can be trusted, then Team Arrow needs Laurel even less.  And Cassidy's statement about the Oliver/Laurel romance ends with "we'll see though - you never know what the writers are going to write -" which suggests that no, she hasn't been told anything.

 

Mind you, given that the first season ended (more or less) with Oliver and Laurel in bed, and the second season ended with Oliver saying (more or less) that he was in love with Felicity, part of me is braced for the third season to end (more or less) with Oliver having a Major Moment with yet a third woman. And then I shall vent away here.