Target Practice: Poisoned Arrow (The Bitterness Thread)

[slayer2]

A place to vent your frustrations on a particular character or arc that's just downright stupid.

[Password]

I don't think it's so much Laurel's character that I dislike as much as what the writers are doing with her...nothing.

[KirkB]

For me it starts with the fact Amell and Cassidy have no chemistry. More than that, half the time he seems lost in scenes with her, like he's not sure what to do or how to respond. I know it's not Amell because he's fine with Holland and Rickards, this seems to be unique to him and Cassidy. That is the kind of thing you'd think the EP's would be aware of when they were testing the actors, so either they cast the two of them as on again, off again lovers in spite of the fact they don't mesh, or because of it. Maybe they want the lack of character compatibility for some reason?

[slayer2]

I don't see their chemistry either and it's frustrating when an EP has a "romantic arc" come hell or highwater irrespective of what's showing on the screen.

Edited May 19, 2014 by slayer2

[calliope1975]

I try to be objective, but I can't when KC sees Laurel as thus (but maybe I'm the one taking crazy pills): Someone asked the differences between playing laurel and ruby and she talked about how Laurel is a lot more real and she loves that about her. She feels like laurel is the heart of the show, shes the one that keeps the show grounded.

 

From the Motor City Comic Con: http://seanteale.tumblr.com/post/86169430536/this-is-some-of-the-stuff-that-happened-at-katie

 

Clearly, I'm watching the show wrong. 

[KirkB]

She sighed up for Arrow because she wanted to do the action as the Black Canary and she was talking about how she was like ughhh in season 2 when her sister came back and turned out to be the canary but she loves caity a lot so whatever

 

 

   That one is kind of interesting. Was she told she would be the Canary or did she assume it because she was Laurel? And she obviously didn't know about Sara when she took the role or maybe she wouldn't have taken it.

 

Jared and Jensen are dicks (her exact word) because when she played Ruby it was when she started really acting professionally and she was really nervous but J2 wouldn’t let her get one take done without making her screw it up by laughing

 

 

   Damn those guys and them trying to make their show fun.

 

   I'm starting to think a lot of the problems with Laurel are Katie and not just the EP's, though I'm sure it's really a combination of the two.

[Zalyn]

Great thread!

 

I find myself wishing that they could make Laurel and Oliver into snarky, bitchy exes.  That would at least give some energy and movement to their scenes.  They clearly cannot do loving - whether tender or heated.

 

If there weren't such warm chemistry with SA/EBR, it wouldn't be so apparent, but in every scene with SA/EBR I see SA wanting to touch her or just stand and study her (not in an objectifying way, but in a serene, still way, like a wolf just curiously watching you).

 

Meanwhile, if they want to have anything interesting in SA/KC scenes, they will need to rely on dialogue more to give the actors more to do, because they can't just be still together.  And I think it would make sense too - we tend to regress with those who knew us when we were younger, and so Oliver could easily tap into his manpain and tension with being reminded of how he was pre-Flashback Island whenever around Laurel.  That can be a good journey the characters take together - finding out how to relate to each other in the present rather than in the past.

[icandigit]

 

I find myself wishing that they could make Laurel and Oliver into snarky, bitchy exes

Oh my gosh i would love that!

[calliope1975]

I find myself wishing that they could make Laurel and Oliver into snarky, bitchy exes.

 

 

I actually think this could work. Have her be the one who feeds them info from the DA's office but always with a bit of snark with Oliver responding in kind. That could be an interesting dynamic. A bit like how Quentin was/is but backed up with their history.

[KirkB]

Given what's he's personally seen, who do you think Quentin considers a worse reoccurring ex for his daughters, Oliver or Nyssa?

[Password]

Oh my gosh i would love that!

 

I've seen several comic-y things with situations like this where they fight like cats and dogs but still have a great camaraderie. If this were the case in the first place I would have enjoyed it, but it wouldn't make sense in relation to Oliver's manpain on the island gazing at the picture all day, for him to allow the bitchiness to continue. Because of his past with her, it would seem more sensible to be placating than antagonistic to the light that kept him going on the island.

[quarks]

I can kinda - kinda - make the argument that Laurel's responses to trauma - going into alcoholism, crying - were more realistic than the responses of some of the other people of the show - "Because my wife died, I shall blow a lot of the city into tiny bits! Because a girl I wasn't even dating was killed by a nutcase on an evil island, I shall build a superpowered army and let it loose on the citizens! Because I am bothered by the idea of the superpowered army and apparently can't remember that one of my agents can use a bazooka, I'm going to send drones in to destroy an American city!  Because everyone has lied to me, I'm going to join my mass murdering father and learn how to take control of my life!"

 

So in that sense - and I can already feel the rest of you ganging up to protest me here - Cassidy's on target.

 

The larger issue, however, is that this is a superhero show staring a man running around shooting arrows at people. "Grounded" is not really its major goal.

[KirkB]

Oh no, I agree with you on point. Given the fact her boyfriend and sister were supposedly killed it's a wonder she didn't go mad at the time. She suppressed a lot of her pain until Oliver and Sara came back, then Tommy died, the city was nearly destroyed, and that was the point she gave in to all the crap that must have been going on inside her and gave in to addiction. Depending on whether you think it's genetic or not she was already predisposed for it anyway.

 

As for the other people, well I would discount Slade's a little since the Mirakuru was messing with his head. The others though may not be reasonable but are exactly the over the top kind of reactions comic book characters have.

 

I do think Cassidy is putting some of this stuff into her performances. I'm just not convinced the writing and directing is taking a lot of it into account.

[Sakura12]

Maybe they should've had Laurel have a substance abuse problem from the beginning. To show us that while Oliver and Sara were suffering, so she was she over losing both of them. Made it where Tommy was the one helping her thought it, so when she relapsed after Tommy death it would have a more emotional impact for her. 

 

They always seem to write Laurel as an afterthought to everyone else. Yes, her boyfriend and sister were having an affair and she lost them both at the same time, but they didn't show any real impact that had on her. She was introduced as nothing more than the jilted ex, when they should've been building her as her own character especially if she's supposed to be the Black Canary. 

 

Now it's too late for me to buy her as something else. They had 2 seasons where she was nothing, she can't suddenly be pushed front and center just because she has right name. 

[catrox14]

 

Jared and Jensen are dicks (her exact word) because when she played Ruby it was when she started really acting professionally and she was really nervous but J2 wouldn’t let her get one take done without making her screw it up by laughing

 

Welp, she just earned the ire of every SPN fan in the world.

 

Her comments about Laurel being the heart of the show, literally made me LOL.  This reminds me a lot of the issues with Sarah Wayne Callies in her role as Lori on Walking Dead.  There was a total disconnect between what she thought was Lori's role in the show and what viewers were getting out of it. 

Edited May 19, 2014 by catrox14

[Zalyn]

I can kinda - kinda - make the argument that Laurel's responses to trauma - going into alcoholism, crying - were more realistic than the responses of some of the other people of the show  [snip]

 

So in that sense - and I can already feel the rest of you ganging up to protest me here - Cassidy's on target.

 

The larger issue, however, is that this is a superhero show staring a man running around shooting arrows at people. "Grounded" is not really its major goal.

This is a great observation, and that seems to be part of the root for the lack of fit. (I may be straying from the thread topic, but I'm keeping on the ascerbic side of her relationship with Oliver and his manpain)

 

In improv, Rule #1 is to never say "no." So if someone throws a ball at you, you can't just ignore it.  You have to at least catch it.  But then you have to throw something back, or pass it on to someone.  Even better, you add more angles so that more can play.  I recently played a storyteller-style roleplaying game called "Fiasco," which focuses on relationships between player characters and lets a story evolve from that.  When it became clear we needed a villain, I stepped up and played a totally gross, despicable, obnoxious casino tycoon whose stuff everyone else was trying to steal.  We were willing to sacrifice some realism to give the other players more things to play with - so if I wanted to try to kill one of them, rather than hire a pro who drops poison in their beer glass at the bar (too easy), I clumsily break into their house with a huge axe that hits the ceiling when I try to swing it, thus giving them an opportunity to respond in an equally showy way.

 

The problem with Laurel's drug abuse arc was that it was all turned inward; other characters had to spend time and energy looking at her, but she didn't give anything back to the story, positive or negative.  There wasn't a case she had to prosecute that was going to sink if she didn't pull her shit together.  Nor did her carelessness directly create a new threat to the city that Team Arrow had to run off to take care of.  So it ended up being peripheral, like much of her character (again, writers? Hello?) By contrast, many other Bad Choices by characters set up future storylines - Thea running off with Psycho!Dad, for example.

 

If the Manhunter option is still on the table for Laurel, then it could be neat to see Laurel inherit the DA position and, having processed the "Oliver is Arrow" bombshell, which I don't think she has adequately done yet, she could get a renewed, Quentin Lance-like (S1) devotion to the Law and criticize Oliver's vigilante work. Seeing how unhappy Sara was could add to this.  So Laurel and Oliver can have steady snark about that whenever one needs help from the other - they'll be loathe to do it, but they know they're stuck without the other's special talents/access.  Like Laurel can't prosecute a big criminal without Arrow getting some evidence. 

 

Meanwhile, Laurel moonlights at the gym taking muay thai or some other hardcore martial arts and starts going out as Manhunter, leading to a future confrontation when it's Oliver who's wondering who the masked vigilante is.  Not quite sure why - bipolar?  Frustration with being dependent on Oliver for help in her DA work? 

 

This ties together 1) Laurel being someone badass (taking advantage of KC's abilities), 2) letting Laurel actually develop as a character in a way that feeds stories, and 3) makes for interesting, rather than flat, interactions and relationship development for Laurel and Oliver. It also keeps the morally grey nature of all institutions on the show - no one, not Queen Consolidated, not the police, not Alderman Blood, etc., are simply good or bad.

[Danny Franks]

It seemed to me that the writers just mangled Laurel as soon as they wrote the first episode.

 

In that episode, she tells Oliver she wishes he was dead and then forgives him, only for him to tell her she's wrong and should stay away from him. Already, they've taken from the place of rightfully vengeful ex to being accommodating and subservient to Oliver's needs. I'm not going on some feminist rant, here, but they just take away what power she'd gathered in their first scene together, and make her look like a mug.

 

Then, in the second episode, they repeat the process. She's mad at him again, and says it was good advice that he told her to stay away from him. But then he decides she's the best person to confide in, and she listens. She forgives him... again, and lets him hang out at her place and whine about his problems with his mother.

 

From that point on, I feel that the character was just compromised. The writers pulled her from one extreme to the other two or three times, in the first two episodes. And how the hell was I supposed to get a handle on who she is, when she just seemed to be defined by whatever emotional journey the writers wanted to take Oliver on?

 

And it seems like nothing they've tried since then has ever worked. Actually, I tell a lie, I thought her as a delusional villain, blaming the Arrow for all her troubles had a lot of potential. I really liked the craziness that Cassidy seemed to be hinting at. But they cut it off before it ever really began, and just had her wallow in booze and self-pity instead.

 

It certainly doesn't help when Laurel feels utterly tangential (at best) to the main thrust of the show, and has scenes that could lift right out without anyone ever missing them. Even when it seems like her scenes should be important to other characters, they end up not being. Take her stint as prosecutor against Moira, for example. Did it matter that she was doing that? Did it make a difference to Oliver or Thea, or to the case at all? Nope. The only thing it brought out was Thea's parentage, which could easily have come from Kate Spencer or someone being decent and approaching Moira in the same way Laurel did.

 

By the end of the season, despite Laurel finally knowing Oliver's identity, she is still utterly irrelevant to anything that pertains to the Arrow. Even when Slade kidnaps her, she's a complete afterthought who is ignored in favour of Felicity. So why should I care about her?

[Password]

I don't know anything about the comics, so I can't base what I say on absolute fact, but the whole getting mad then forgiving him thing, is that normal for Dinah and Oliver? I mean I heard he cheated on her a lot so she must have extreme forgiveness allowances. Perhaps they're following canon in that way?

 

Still makes for a poor showing for Laurel Lance though.

[Password]

Even if that were the case, what's in the comics is just not translating well to the tv screen. Surely that should be taken into consideration, that Laurel seems like a doormat.

[pootlus]

Even if that were the case, what's in the comics is just not translating well to the tv screen. Surely that should be taken into consideration, that Laurel seems like a doormat.

Not giving Laurel her own agency (or not a very good one) was a huge mistake. It's like they thought "hmm, lawyer, hmm, fights for the poor and downtrodden" and then despite the very obvious tie-in to Oliver's after-school activities, they didn't think about actually having her liaise with him (as Arrow) on a regular basis.

Instead it's like after setting up that potential plot, they thought that having her interact with him largely through Tommy was advancing Laurel's story in some way, whereas she just ended up being a third wheel to the far more compelling story of Oliver and Tommy.

I'm sure a better actress could have sold it better, and a more experienced actress with more clout might have gone to the EPs and said "Look...this isn't going to work". But it is what it is, and here we are.

It's just baffling how supposedly experienced EPs could fuck up so badly.

[somewhereother]

My feeling is that this season, they deliberately regressed Laurel as a character. She is now in personality equally as horrible as pre-island Ollie.  Wishful thinking on my part is that maybe her 'island' is still to come, buying us all time until the end of the series. 

[wonderwall]

No they didn't deliberately do it. Andrew Kreisberg said that they've had trouble writing Laurel... So yeah, definitely not deliberate. I just think they're having trouble finding a proper direction for her character to take... Now that she knows who the Arrow is, maybe they'll write her better? 

[Anthea]

"How do solve a problem called Laurel" *insert nuns singing* (Hello, a newbie and a foreigner here!)

 

I don't hate her, but I find her extremely frustrating. When I started started watching Arrow I didn't really like her, but it didn't bother me because I thought "It's the story of an action hero, I can tolerate her!"

I get what the writers intended to do with her, but they failed. And they have digged themselves in a deep grave with the Laurel writing. Overall I don't find the character engaging or interesting.

You've all already said many times how and why the Lauriver relationship is toxic and wrong and how they should definitely get over it, I just add the one thing that enraged me forever against it: (the scene with Sarah) Laurel knew Oliver slept around with other girls, and yet it didn't matter to her. What is she, a doormat? Dignity, where have you been forgotten? Laurel I don't like you, but for god's sake, given that past, find yourself a new man.

Said that,  I think it makes sense that  Laurel can forgive Oliver and keep him in his affection, but no more romantic relationships. She was the first love (although we can all argue how many problems this first love had) and that's it.

The last episode has given me hope the that Olicity is the established and real love story (as long as they take their time in building it, as it seems they have been "trying" to do in S2), but I do fear they are going to rivist Lauriver once more, just to give it a closure (if Oliver's child story comes out..I hope it's the episode that nails the story forever)

I wish Sarah could be the only Black Canary, but I'm afraid they are going the Laurel route. Laurel, since they have to keep her/the actress on the show, could have been a helpful hand as a lawyer (just as Quentin is a helpful hand as a policeman).

How can the writers fit her in the lair as BC? Diggle detest her and Felicity tolerates her. It would be an unbeatable challenge. And how can a character like Laurel become BC? Her emotional baggage is limited, and let's not start with the physical training.

[Chairman Meow]

■She hasnt watched the finale yet but when she was filming the jacket scene she was giggling and basically glowing in every take and she wondered what it turned out like.

 

 

And wow.  So really, that wasn't Laurel we saw saying a heartfelt goodbye to Sara... that was Katie saying, "Get lost, Caity, it's my turn to be Canary."

 

No wonder so many people complained about the cognitive dissonance of that scene. 

[Sakura12]

Cassidy choosing to play the scene that way made me think Laurel's an asshole that gives no shits about her younger sister, she just wanted what Sara had and with Sara gone she gets it. Cassidy does realize that she needs to get people to like her character, right? That didn't help. 

 

It shouldn't even be that hard, Laurel was the victim and the nice normal girl. Sara stole her sister's boyfriend and killed people for money, but Caity managed to make Sara more likable than Laurel despite all that.

 

That makes me think that Cassidy doesn't think beyond what she wants. She doesn't think about the other characters and how she affects them or they affect her. She didn't think as an older sister and what the choice Sara made really means. all she thought was Caity's leaving and I get to be the Canary like I wanted. That's why Laurel never felt like anything but a person standing there reading lines. She's done nothing to make Laurel feel real, she's done nothing to bring the character to life. 

[icandigit]

 

I just add the one thing that enraged me forever against it: (the scene with Sarah) Laurel knew Oliver slept around with other girls, and yet it didn't matter to her. What is she, a doormat? Dignity, where have you been forgotten? Laurel I don't like you, but for god's sake, given that past, find yourself a new man.

I don't know what the writers intent was. But it came off to me as arrogance. Like she's too perfect for Oliver to have slept around on her. And felt like her sister was being a hater because she wanted Oliver too.

[icandigit]

 

It shouldn't even be that hard, Laurel was the victim and the nice normal girl. Sara stole her sister's boyfriend and killed people for money, but Caity managed to make Sara more likable than Laurel despite all that.

I was curious of people's opinion on this. Who is the reliable narrator in this story. Did Laurel block Sara from the beginning from Oliver? Is Sara bitter and lying? I assumed, even though Sarah was a bad girl, that she only went on the trip after Laurel was bitchy to her. That she wasn't considering it before, just flirting with Oliver cause she liked him. There's just this weird dynamic to this horrible sister swapping. Besides the boat scene Oliver actually seemed to have had some type of connection with Sara.

[calliope1975]

I don't know how much pull David Cassidy had on KC's career. He didn't raise her and he apparently didn't know about her. A mutual friend of DC's told me she showed up on his doorstep as a teen, I believe. (IIRC, I think he saw me with my Supernatural DVDs - otherwise, that was a weird thing to think I would want to know.)  Though, I'm sure having the name didn't hurt, either. And I remember when KC used Taylor Cole's name when she was pulled over because I really liked Taylor and thought that was a crappy move. 

 

Cassidy choosing to play the scene that way made me think Laurel's an asshole that gives no shits about her younger sister, she just wanted what Sara had and with Sara gone she gets it.

 

 

Well, Laurel does think Sara stole her life. Her awesome threatened, tortured, drowned, made into an assassin life. The acting (or apparent non-acting) choice in that final scene with Sara was terrible. About as bad as when Laurel first saw Sara's scars. There should have been some hint, some underlying tone of sadness that the sister she thought was dead for 6 years was leaving instead of giddy glee that Sara passed on a jacket. Terrible.

[catrox14]

I truly don't get some of Cassidy's acting choices in scenes. Her line readings and expressions seem to belie a lot of the dialogue. So either the director and showrunners don't get that she is a bad actress or it's being done intentionally.  And here is my rationale for that assertion or at least my HOPE is that it is intentional.

 

I've been speculating for a while now that since Laurel found out about Sara and Ollie in current time and she declared that Sara stole her life, that she was going to steal Sara's life out of jealously.  Even the scene when Sara's rescues the child from a literal burning building and the mother asked "who was that", the way Cassidy read that line "That's the Canary" and her expression didn't seem to come across as actual admiration and pride for her sister. It was a creepy smile and seemed more like "I am going to cut me a piece of that Canary pie then Daddy and Ollie will love me more" than beaming pride at her sister's heroics. It would also explain why she was oddly gleeful that her sister was returning to Assassinville.

 

I could almost accept that as Laurel's motivation to pick up a bow so long as she stays evil. But then that would kind of stupid because we already have The Dark Archer with a strong possibility that Thea becomes Dark Archer 2.0.  

[bluebonnet]

catrox14, I like that thought about Laurel going on to steal Sara's life.  In isolation, it makes a lot of sense.  However, I've been rewatching most of the episodes the past few days and I really do think that it's down to KC's acting choices, or even (lack of) ability.  There was this one scene in season 1 that I really hated the first time I saw it because it made no sense, and I hated it even more this second time around.  It's when Roy is being questioned by Quentin soon after Laurel had the conversation with Thea about how people (like those in the Glades) deserve a break and a second chance, too.  Roy tells his sob story and Thea walks away from charges choosing to give him a second chance, and Laurel gets this big goofy grin on her face while looking at Roy.  It made no sense with the previous scene because Laurel was mentoring Thea so she should be looking at Thea with fondness and pride or something.  At the least, she should be looking proud of herself for finally being presented as doing one job right since she's been shown as a crappy lawyer.  But no, she just looks goofy for no apparent reason at all.  It doesn't mesh with that scene or any other leading up to it.  

 

I really really really (really x1000) hate bringing up stuff like this because I find it nasty as women and men should be allowed to manage their personal appearance in any way they wish.  It's pretty apparent that KC has had some work.  I don't really have a problem with people getting work done, especially those whose jobs put them in the limelight and under constant scrutiny.  As an actor, though, their ability to manipulate their face and body into certain expressions is what earns them a paycheck.  They need to be able to adjust when certain cosmetic procedures limit movement in their face.  Susanna Thompson has had work.  When Moira was telling the people of Starling what was going to happen in the Glades, she could have scrunched up her eyes to express remorse and fear, but instead she closed her eyes and let them flutter and also rolled her shoulders inward a bit.  John Barrowman has also had work.  He would use the tone of his voice to really get the evil across, but also would make his body larger, even when he was sitting.  KC doesn't have this same command of her body or expressions.  When she's blackmailing the DA, if we can't see her forehead look a little angry, we should see her stand a little taller.  If she can't exhibit fondness or pride with her lips alone, we should see her lean towards Thea as Thea leaves the room.  If she can't express shock through her face alone when told Oliver is Arrow, we should see her lifting her hand towards her face (though she did flutter her eyes a bit here, it just wasn't exactly an eye fluttering moment).  

 

I don't really have much idea of what goes on behind a scene.  I don't know how director's direct and how much the actors are supposed to just know what to do when a scene calls for shock.  I figure it would probably create a hostile environment for a director to cut and be all "omg KC, don't you fucking know what pride is meant to look like do I need to spell it out for you do you need to watch some vids from acting 101 to get it".  There have just been too many scenes over the course of two seasons where KC's acting did not match up with what the rest of the script was conveying (should we even talk about her representation of drunk and stone?)

[icandigit]

My thoughts about this are contracts were signed, promises were made and she's a CW darling. She has a fan base an gets her own section of the show devoted to her and her character. I don't really see that changing. i just wish they would just use her for all the comic book cliche stuff or beats they have to meet. And then tell a real and compelling story with Felicity that goes against those as a contrast. I was hoping that's what they were doing, but from the press they are giving probably not.

[pootlus]

When criticising an actor's appearance has nothing to do with their ability to do their job, it's petty. When it does, it's justified, IMO. Katie using botox on her upper face significantly impacts her ability to do her job. In her defence, it's not just her - there seems to be a culture of it. Willa Holland's upper face doesn't move much either, but she's a better actress overall and can compensate. It's baffling to me - since when do twentysomethings have wrinkles (unless they do a Lindsay Lohan) that they need to freeze? What's wrong with you, Hollywood?

For example - imagine if, last year, Colin Donnell and Stephen Amell both stacked on 20 pounds of chub. Donnell's playing a playboy, it doesn't really matter that much. Amell's playing a superhero who's supposed to be in supreme shape - it matters.

[Sakura12]

This gif shows quite a glaring difference in the acting. We have Cassidy grinning like a loon(when the scene shouldn't at all be like that) Then we have Lotz who took a more subtle approach. Sara's smile is tight which and she casts her eyes downward which can be taken as Sara's not as happy as she appears. 

 

[HighwayFlower]

Ugh! I want to smack that smile off her face. Your sister is going off with a group of assassins and you are happy??

[bluebonnet]

Since it's difficult to look at KC and understand what Laurel is supposed to be emoting, I thought I'd just listen to the lair scene without watching.  It somewhat changes the tone of the speech.  We don't see her try to visually put emphasis on her "i know you better than blah blah blah" crap and there isn't a verbal emphasis on it.  There isn't any real emphasis until she tells him that she knows he isn't the type to give up, which makes it seem more like the scene was all about reminding Oliver that he hasn't given up in the past and he won't give up now.  If it were a radio broadcast, it might have been more successful.

 

However, just listening made her interaction with Diggle and Felicity worse because of the way "partners" was emphasized.  Hard to describe other than there was a bitter tone on 'partners' when she said "when you went missing, I reached out....to your partners."  It looks even worse when watching because Diggle and Felicity are already extremely likeable and we have watched the tone has been set for when people meet them as Ollie's Arrow partners.  Laurel just gives them this severe look.  

 

It reminds me of the first time Laurel met Felicity that was really uncomfortable as the dialogue they gave her didn't match with the scene.  She met Felicity at Oliver's place of work.  They were having a conversation when Felicity burst in to talk to Oliver.  Felicity immediately apologized and them did the Fel-stammer and Laurel is all "who are you".  They just weren't words that matched the scene as it was a place of employment where employees were likely to be working.  The only reason Fel needed to apologize was because she interrupted a conversation.  Compare to when Moira first meets Felicity, F comes to Walter's hospital room while the family is hugging and crying.  Moira asks "who are you" which is dialogue that fits with the scene because she is reconnecting with her husband in a hospital room  after he had been held hostage for months and a random blonde walks in all smiles.  Felicity was aware that it wasn't an appropriate time for her to be there which made Moira's question match the tone of the scene.  And again, the scene is so much worse when just listening without looking at KC's face.  

[catrox14]

Ugh. That gif is just so....annoying.  One thing that I mentioned after City of Blood was that Laurel was wearing green.  And she's wearing green here again in that gif.  I don't remember Laurel wearing green that often in the show.  I think it must be important. And not in a good way :(

[writersblock51]

That GIF is simply proof to me, after the recent KC interviews, that she's not a good actress.  She can't turn her inner happiness off when she needs to be a bit less gleeful and she can't seem impassioned in a sex scene when her partner is a married man in real life.  How the hell is she going to be able to carry the BC mantle?

[SleepDeprived]

Not gonna lie, that jacket bequeathing scene took me straight out of the scene precisely because I saw KC, the actress, rather than Laurel, the character, on my screen. The shit-eating grin was just so out of context to what the scene was about. Remove the BC-mantle-passing connotations, which shouldn't have even entered Laurel's mind at the time that her sister was leaving her whole family again for parts unknown with shady ass people, and it's a leather jacket that Sara is giving to her as a remembrance of sorts. The moment was supposed to be bittersweet or downright melancholy. Instead, we got a gleeful don't-let-the-door-hit-you-on-your-way-out-I-am-so-going-to-be-BC-now reaction from KC. Lawd.

 

I actually don't hate Laurel, despite what the thread title suggests. I'm indifferent to her journey. I don't even realize it, until others point it out, whenever she's not in an episode. I wish I could like her. But the acting and characterization is just so ridiculous. Not even ridiculous-good-cheesy but ridiculous-bad. There is just something very superficial about KC's grasp of Laurel's character, which is largely the writing's fault but partly hers as an actress who's supposed to try and interpret what is written and bridge the gaps, that is coming across in her acting and interviews. I hope she gets better at portraying a Laurel I might be able to muster a smidgen of interest in, come S3 (I'm resigned to her being on the show for the foreseeable future), but I'm not holding my breath.

[Danny Franks]

That GIF is simply proof to me, after the recent KC interviews, that she's not a good actress.  She can't turn her inner happiness off when she needs to be a bit less gleeful and she can't seem impassioned in a sex scene when her partner is a married man in real life.  How the hell is she going to be able to carry the BC mantle?

 

 

Ah, but would this not suggest that Katie Cassidy is actually a method actor, par excellence? She can't see past her own character, and how things affect that character and what that character wants or needs. Much like Laurel often can't see past how things affect her, and what she wants and needs.

 

Simple truth is, Katie Cassidy and/or Laurel Lance will not be able to carry the Black Canary mantle. Just won't work. The writers can try to force it, try to ram her down the throats of the viewers, but unless the viewers just give up and say, 'okay, whatever. Black Canary. Sure.' it will end up damaging the show.

 

So anyway, regarding that scene, I said after the episode that it felt wrong to me, because it was played with the air of Sara going off for a gap year holiday, or a job in a new city, rather than her leaving to rejoin the League of Assassins, giving up on her hopes for redemption and salvation. Now I realise that it was pretty much all down to Katie Cassidy. Both Caity Lotz and Paul Blackthorne at least played the scene with some ambivalence and reluctance, which still probably would have felt a little weak to me. But Cassidy grinning like this is the best thing ever just ruined it completely.

[Password]

I don't blame KC for the acting here, I blame the EPs for not telling her her sister is going off to destroy what's left of her soul. That should not have been a happy occasion at all. I am continually frustrated with the show for trying to make me like Laurel at the expense of other characters. If Laurel died, it would not have affected the show in any shape or form. Yes, Oliver's manpain would have continued and the Lances would've cried but the overall story really doesn't need her.

If they make Laurel likable in s3 it would be the best thing on tv since Fresh Prince.

[Sakura12]

They've had 2 seasons to make Laurel likable and haven't. So I don't really think they can in the future. That last scene between the sisters pretty much took away any respect I could've had for the Laurel character. 

Edited May 22, 2014 by Sakura12

[writersblock51]

The writers, the EPs and KC have had 2 years to get Laurel to a point where a majority of the fans want to see her be a part of Arrow and Oliver's life.  That hasn't happened.  And KC's recent public comments put a lot of the feel from the jacket scene squarely on her.  I don't know what the director thought was coming through or what the producers would ultimately decide it looked like before it aired. What I saw, and it seems many here feel the same way, is that KC's Laurel was very excited at being handed the jacket (not earning anything that it represented) and that it fit (which, by the way, I think is odd - are the actresses that alike in size?  I didn't think so, since KC seems to have much longer arms) perfectly. 

 

I call BS to the whole, contrived thing.  KC may think this is wonderful news for HER but she's kidding herself if the thinks the show is going to do better with her in that role.

[Sakura12]

I actually think the EP's thought that moment was supposed to be uplifting and epic for Laurel becoming the BC. 

 

I don't know why they'd think that after watching a character that earned the hero title through tears, blood and sweat just handing over the title to a character that has not done one thing to earn it would've been a great moment. Do they really think the name holds that much power? Also considering Laurel is not the name of the Black Canary. The BC's name is Dinah (that is the only name she ever went by) and the only Dinah Lance we've met was played by Alex Kingston. 

[icandigit]

 

I don't blame KC for the acting here, I blame the EPs for not telling her her sister is going off to destroy what's left of her soul.

I remember reading a post earlier on this site that made wonder if she possibly is only paying attention to  her storyline,. Maybe not really watching the show. If she is disconnected from the storyline as a whole, she has no idea how to fit her character in the larger context of the show. Does her character even know all the details about the league of assassins? They don't show her talking to Sara about anything and she doesn't seem curious about Oliver and Sara's crazy lives. For all she knows they are headed on a carnival cruise.

[KirkB]

I'm not sure Laurel does know who Nyssa and the League are. I don't think Oliver or Quentin have told her. She may honestly believe her sister's going off on a trip with her old girlfriend.

[Chairman Meow]

Sometimes I wonder why someone doesn't sit KC down and give her some media training.  To anyone with a brain in their head, the jacket scene should have been bittersweet, melancholy, wistful... anything but gleeful.  Yet here's KC, telling a room full of people that she was giggling and glowing in every take.  All but saying, 'I coudn't contain my personal triumph long enough to be a professional and pull out the correct emotion that this scene required.'   Ugh. 

[Password]

I'm not sure Laurel does know who Nyssa and the League are. I don't think Oliver or Quentin have told her. She may honestly believe her sister's going off on a trip with her old girlfriend.

If this is the case it makes sense. But because that is not what we have been shown on the screen her happiness just leaves a sour taste in the mouth. Also what is up with people on this show not being more concerned over the amount of scars on Oliver? Thea just left it and didn't ask him about it again. Is no one concerned about the apparent torture he went through?

[Sakura12]

I'm not sure Laurel does know who Nyssa and the League are. I don't think Oliver or Quentin have told her. She may honestly believe her sister's going off on a trip with her old girlfriend.

Laurel knows that Nyssa was the assassin that took Dinah and poisoned her. I don't think she knows that Sara was in a relationship with that assassin. So both of them, Quentin especially should know that Sara wasn't going on a vacation, she was choosing to be a killer. I am giving them the benefit of knowing the definition of assassin though. Maybe they don't. Oliver doesn't know about the word dead. So maybe Starling City schools leave some words out of their dictionary. 

 

They could've used a nice scene with Laurel finding out her sister likes women and men. But then again they gave that scene to Quentin when Laurel was nothing but an afterthought to the whole show.  

 

It is strange that no one was at all concerned with the amount of scarring Oliver and Sara have. Those are not typical scars, what did Sara say her's were from, swords, spears and grenades? Oliver's were from arrows and bullets. The chatty Doctor even told Laurel that Sara's scars reminded him of soldiers injured at war. Wouldn't that raise some flags for Laurel that her sister went through some awful traumas? But no, she was so happy that her sister was leaving with the very people that were probably the reason she had some of those of scars. 

Edited May 22, 2014 by Sakura12

[Danny Franks]

I'm not sure Laurel does know who Nyssa and the League are. I don't think Oliver or Quentin have told her. She may honestly believe her sister's going off on a trip with her old girlfriend.

 

She knew Nyssa was the woman who kidnapped her mother, didn't she? She also knew Nyssa tranqed her for no immediately discernible reason. But maybe Laurel thought Nyssa was just being a friend and giving her a fix of that sweet, sweet oblivion, I don't know. 

 

Just the latest in a long line of badly misjudged Laurel scenes, I suppose. And I'm sure it won't be the last.

[writersblock51]

The thing is - did anyone at the comic con where she said all those things ask a follow up question about 'how do you think Laurel feels about Sara's decision to return to the life of an assassin?' or ANYTHING that was also happening in that scene.  Or maybe no one knew about the scene well enough to know to ask?

 

I haven't read many reviews of the finale to see if any critics are expressing similiar feelings about how it all came out on screen...