Target Practice: Poisoned Arrow (The Bitterness Thread)

[Morrigan2575]

My guess is that the stunt double is flinging her hair around so we can't see her face, but it's kinda distracting.  I mean, we can see all of the other stunt double's faces, so I don't know why they are bothering with it.  And while I'm talking about that, man what happened with this show and stunts?!.  They were so much better in the first two seasons and I don't remember ever being able to get a good clear look at the stunt double's faces (they weren't even trying with the Ra's cliff fight last season).

 

from the 401 episode thread

 

This is something that has bugged me for awhile.  I absolutely loved the action sequences/fight scenes in S1.  I remember SA doing one of those little video interviews for S1 promotions where he talked about the stunts.  I remember him saying that the stunt guys always take the stunts and try to break it down to what's real and what SA really can do.  The scene in question was from the Subway Vigilante episode where SA goes sliding across the trunk of the car.  In the original planned stunt they wanted Oliver/SA to go through the open window of the car and SA was like, nope can't do it.  

I miss that realistic take and yes I know the show abandoned the realism in favor of comicbook crap as soon as they found pitched The Flash spinoff to The CW.  However, I really really miss those good/realistic action/fight sequences.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[lemotomato]

I think the quality of stunts reflect how the stunt team is spread too thinly now compared to season 1 and 2. Instead of needing to plan fights for one primary character and the occasional guest villain/ally, they had 2 main characters in masks at the start of season 3, three after midseason, and four at the start of season 4. They might just not have enough time to co-ordinate and practice with that many people.

Edited October 9, 2015 by lemotomato

[kismet]

The show is becoming less action and more comic-y, and IMO not in a good way. It's also starting to feel very cliche in its action sequences. So I'm a little bitter that it looks less and less like an original take on a comic story, but rather a mass produced knock-off.

[Primal Slayer]

They either need try to keep the massive fights to a minimum or expand their stunt team.

[kismet]

I also feel like not every mission requires the whole team. It doesn't always need to be a group. I liked when it was just Sara or just Oliver taking on one or many. The problem is the others always seem to need back-up, even Dig has rarely ever fought alone. I think that might change this year as I think he is going to go the lone wolf route this year and mimic s1 OQ. But the group fighting group needs to stop being an every episode thing.

[GirlvsTV]

Tbh, anytime there is more than 2 people running around in masks things feel really silly to me. Also, I understand why they have code names but every time they say them out loud during missions I cringe. It honestly just takes me right out of the moment.

And now that I've seen the Green Arrow suit in action I really dislike it. It looks too stiff or something and those turtle shells on his shoulders look dumb. I hope Oliver has reason to fight a lot in plain clothes this year, he looks very nice when he does that ; )

I missed the more grounded approach from s1-2, both in the writing and the visuals. I mean, remember all those gorgeous shots of Sara running around rooftops and jumping in (I think) 2x4? What happened to that show?

[Primal Slayer]

It probably doesn't help that the first 2 years we had 3 brains actively working on the show, AK/GB/MG. Now AK/GB are not nearly as involved as they were in the first 2 seasons due to obvious reasons and it leaves MG really unbalanced.

[millennium]

The show is becoming less action and more comic-y, and IMO not in a good way. It's also starting to feel very cliche in its action sequences. So I'm a little bitter that it looks less and less like an original take on a comic story, but rather a mass produced knock-off.

 

I feel like I've been watching the same episode for two years.   Team fights at night, bad guys get away, Diggle confronts Oliver, the ladies try to hold the team together, Oliver contemplates his belly button, Quentin Lance's muttering, the new Big Bad doing walk-ons, Felicity working too hard to be cute, flashback, bad wig ... did I leave anything out?

[AyChihuahua]

Now that S3 is on Netflix I have to be so careful not to just go to the next episode.  I just accidentally started on of those torturous POSs!  (Thank God it only played for a few seconds.  Playing S3 in this house is akin to playing with a Ouija board in a horror flick...horror and misery all around.)

[Primal Slayer]

It annoys the hell out of me to think how they managed to butcher Count Vertigo twice in this show by trying to make him a knock off Scarecrow and be "realistic". The real deal would make for a good season long big bad.

 

Along with Brother Blood who would've made a perfectly creepy big time villain. A guy who runs a cult? Slightly supernatural? Gold mine.

[kismet]

They really did waste setting up Brother Blood as a potential cult that could come back. Other people can wear the mask, so they could have laid that groundwork on the show. Then again, I understood why they had to kill him because not every villain can survive. I did love Sebastian Blood though & Kevin Alejandro was great.

 

I loved the first Count Vertigo. I liked his plot & his characterization, I don't even care if it was Scarecrow-esque - it was a successful plot & character. I even liked the way they brought him back in various ways. First himself and then the doctor impersonating him. I also loved how he died.

 

But I was bitter with Peter Stormare's Count Vertigo. It was very disappointing, from a talented actor. It took all of the crazy out of the count and made him very run of the mill drug lord. If their plan was to make him just your average drug lord they should have held off until they wanted to bring Bratva back, because at least it would make sense. They disappointed me after having set-up Count Vertigo as such a crazy character that now he was just a typical drug lord & not even well-written at that.

[AyChihuahua]

It also made NO SENSE that anyone would ever ever want to take that version of Vertigo for recreational purposes.  

[Starfish35]

Yes, I liked the first Count Vertigo far better than the second one. Peter Stormare's Vertigo did not work for me at all.

[tennisgurl]

The first Count Vertigo was at least memorable. The second one was just kind of boring. 

[EmilyBettFan]

The first count vertigo was perfect.

[NumberCruncher]

This really isn't necessarily a bitter post, but seeing the convo in the spoiler thread and seeing the awkward disjointedness of the new TA in 4x01 just reaffirmed how much I miss Original TA. I know we won't ever have the team back the way it was, but it does make me a sad that the organic feel and awesome chemistry between O/D/F is gone. I don't begrudge the new members really but I have to admit that it seems the show is trying way too hard to sell us on them and it has disrupted the flow. :(

[Angel12d]

This really isn't necessarily a bitter post, but seeing the convo in the spoiler thread and seeing the awkward disjointedness of the new TA in 4x01 just reaffirmed how much I miss Original TA. I know we won't ever have the team back the way it was, but it does make me a sad that the organic feel and awesome chemistry between O/D/F is gone. I don't begrudge the new members really but I have to admit that it seems the show is trying way too hard to sell us on them and it has disrupted the flow. :(

 

I'm bitter about it. Mine will be a bitter post. LOL.

 

One of the main reasons I even continued to watch this show was because of how well O/D/F play off against each other. It was there in s1 but it was the most evident in those early s2 episodes, from 201 to 210, and the dynamic was flawless. You can put them in any combination, O/D, O/F, F/D, and it still works. That kind of easy chemistry doesn't come along very often so the fact that they're trying so hard to pretend it doesn't even exist pisses me off.

 

I did read somewhere that

there's gonna be some OTA scenes coming up (probably when Laurel drags Thea to NP) so I'm really hoping they haven't forgotten.

I'm trying to embrace the new Team Arrow because this is a TV show and they do have to mix things up but a little appreciation for what kept a lot of people watching wouldn't go amiss. 

[Chaser]

They waited three seasons to have Laurel and Thea apart of the Team. Prior to that the interactions between them and the trio was very limited and rather random. We didn't get to see the awkwardness of the relationships development. When Laurel called Diggle "John" I winced. Logically I can fill in the blanks. They have worked together for the past six months. She probably knows Lyla and Thea. I'm sure there have been bonding moments but I still resent it. 

 

OTA was earned. This new Team feels artificial. 

[Primal Slayer]

Im annoyed that all that we saw of TA 4.0 in 4x01 was the end of their time being a 3some. We didn't really get a good feel of how they worked together and i wanted to see some of their wins before they got overpowered by The Ghosts.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I'm bitter that Oliver is no longer the leader, and the team shall now operate as a "democracy."  That's a nice concept, but in reality, nothing would ever get done because they would spend too much disagreeing about what should get done.

Edited October 13, 2015 by SonofaBiscuit

[tangerine95]

My biggest issue with the Diggle,Laurel,Thea team in 4.01 was that I thought they had no chemistry as a team.We mostly saw them in actions scenes and that is the least interesting part of a team on this show.I have no idea what the EPs were thinking calling them a well oilled machine,they were far from it.

Also they had very little interaction prior to that so I just didn't care about it,they didn't feel like friends or even people who liked each other very much.

They were also very unlikable the whole episode.They spend all their time failing then asking Oliver for help and being jerks to him about everything.Diggle was understandable and it worked because I'm invested in his and Oliver's friendship and want it repaired since I was shown how great that friendship is for 3 season.Thea and Laurel were the ones that were supposed to show why they would be good on the team and for me it didn't really work.Thea still has a chance if they stop making her a brat to Oliver and have her show gratitude for the fact that he gave up his life twice for her in season 3.Laurel is a lost cause.IMO she is redundant on the team and on the show and sucks the energy right out of any team arrow scene.

Edited October 13, 2015 by tangerine95

[tangerine95]

I'm bitter that Oliver is no longer the leader, and the team shall now operate as a "democracy." That's a nice concept, but in reality, nothing would ever get done because they would spend too much disagreeing about what should get done.

They became a "democracy" in season 3 after 3.13 too and it didn't last longer then the plot needed it to insert Laurel on the team.I expect this one to last as long as they needed it for Oliver's and Diggle's conflict.

Oliver is the lead of the show,gets the most focus and every villain targets him.I don't think they can keep having a team vote or having him constantly saying please and thank you for the rest of the show,someone has to give the orders.Even in this episode they did what he said only after giving him an attitude about it first.

Edited October 13, 2015 by tangerine95

[Angel12d]

I find it's just symptomatic of one of the main problems on this show which is telling us but not showing us things and it's weird how it's always the things that are supposed to stick. They told us that O/L were an epic romance but showed us nothing of the sort. They told us that Diggle, Thea and Laurel were a team but again, they just seemed like placeholders. I could go on.

 

Meanwhile, OTA was shown to grow from the beginning and we saw them evolve from strangers to partners to friends to family but we're just supposed to accept that that dynamic is no more. GTFO.

[EmilyBettFan]

How can they classify those three as a team and when they had Felicity in the background helping them. I know it was kept a secret but, once again who is another person saving the day and not acknowledged as a hero? Felicity Smoak.

Then they go to Oliver because they need help. This doesn't sound like a "well oiled team."

[Genki]

How can they classify those three as a team and when they had Felicity in the background helping them. I know it was kept a secret but, once again who is another person saving the day and not acknowledged as a hero? Felicity Smoak.

Then they go to Oliver because they need help. This doesn't sound like a "well oiled team."

 

I guess it's like Ray's suit, all the credit goes to him because he wears the "Mask".

 

I think any form of Canary tends to throw off the Dynamics of Team Arrow. IMO the Canary as a character should been like The Huntress....Reoccurring on Arrow.

 If they consistently have to force dynamics, kill people and tear other characters down to make one work, it takes away from the quality of the show and can bring out a negative reaction in the Audience like I have with Laurel since S2.5 (and Ray).

 

With OTA Oliver is the clear leader, but they make it pretty clear that he is lost and less effective without Digg and Felicity's support. It's so well balanced and executed that changes are hard, I think even Roy only fitted best when he was more a snarky observer or when Team Flash needed someone to play off against.

 

I was bitter that Oliver's legitimate concerns about Thea were being ignored and turned around on him, he is finally proactive rather than reactive to a situation with Thea and boy did he get dumped on in a big way. I really hope the BroTP get back on track soon.

[kismet]

I do not see this democracy lasting which is why I am not as bitter about it. OR maybe I am swimming in my fav river De' Nial. A team without a leader does not work. Even the most democratic teams have a Captain. Heck even most Democratic nations have a leader. I think OQ will learn to be more diplomatic in his leadership skills, but the show is going to be putting him back in the leader role sooner rather than later. OTA had a democratic feel to it. OQ listened to Dig & FS's opinion multiple times. He might have been the one calling the shots, but it was with his trusty partners advice and assistance.

 

Even when OTA expanded to TA w/ Roy & Sara, it still had a collaborative feel to it. It wasn't until BC/LL needed to be added that all of the sudden we needed to have a leaderless democracy, and it's bullshit. But I don't see that being a problem because pretty soon I think BC/LL will be as invisible to the plot as she was in s3, so it won't matter if she has issues with OQ's leadership skills. Because the writers will just conveniently forget to have her & her issues be relevant.

 

I actually had no problem with TQ and some of her comments from 401, because it seemed like it was time for her to stand up for herself (OQ can be a little overbearing & smothering). I also think their relationship has always had a whippy snark to it, so I wasn't surprised that she seemed a lil bratty, esp considering she might still have some LP effects going on. It also was some of the comments a quippy side kick would say to her mentor, even if they seem out of line.

[kismet]

Was watching some of the BTS Gotham extras. And I got a little bitter about Star(ling) City. The show really went to great lengths to show how the city of Gotham really feel into depravity, anarchy and absolute chaos. They really wanted to tell the origin story of how the villains became the villains and how the city needed masked heroes to protect it.

 

ARROW has done very little to show us just how Star(ling) City fell apart to the point that they now need a troupe of masked heroes fighting on a nightly basis. S1 was good in showing us the Undertaking, but then it was only 1 guy and his team on a mission to defend the city. In s2, the after-effects of the Undertaking seemed to lend evidence to the damage of the city leading to a vulnerability & opportunity for criminals to take advantage or come to being. In s3, there was barely any criminal element that seemed substantial enough to require a whole team.

 

Now we have QL claiming that OQ brought in all this madness. But really, despite having a criminal a week there hasn't seemed to be as much madness as QL mentions. There is a lack of corruption, criminals, chaos & anarchy, its just kinda weak which only makes QL vendetta seem crazier considering how much OQ has sacrificed trying to save the city. I hope that DD can really elevate the madness in s4. But part of me also hopes that they can somehow go back in fb or some way to show that SC was always a city in need of a hero, esp now that we have a whole team of masks that needs something to do.

 

FLASH makes sense that it needs the Flash because since the generator explosion there has been an invasion of metahumans. LoT will travel through time, so it needs a team. And Gotham has really raised the bar for establishing a place where hell is raining down and crime is running rampant. ARROW really needs to up their villain & crime element if I am going to have to listen to another season of everyone (esp QL) blaming OQ for everything, when really a lot of it has been run of the mill crime stuff (minus the Must be May destruction).

[Morrigan2575]

I thought it was going to be empty too. I watched with a person who's never seen Arrow before, and she was like, "That grave's gonna be empty. Oh. Gross."

Sadly that actually would have been 10x better and could have still had the same result.

LL/Thea go to dig up Sara and they find an empty grave except someone accidentally left behind one of those LOA necklaces. LL/Thea go to NP to question Malcolm and, we find out that the new Ra's decided to dig Sara up and Pit her in order to keep Nyssa in line and loyal (carrot/stick). Thea confronts MM demands he lets Sara go home with them and MM (who is evil but still has affection for Thea) agrees.

Sara is back to life but super crazy and Thea/LL help her deal, while Thea also goes through her cray cray phase. Thea/Sara bond over being pitted and Thea gets some absolution for her guilt in killing Sara (not that she's to blame but she sure carries that around with her).

Edited October 15, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Sakura12]

I wish they had gone that way.

 

Then that would look like Laurel was helping Sara, not being a selfish idiot. Villains are selfish, it makes sense for them do whatever they want and not care about the consequences. Heroes are supposed to put a little more thought into doing things. However none of what Laurel is doing is OOC for her. 

[Morrigan2575]

I wish they had gone that way.

 

Then that would look like Laurel was helping Sara, not being a selfish idiot. Villains are selfish, it makes sense for them do whatever they want and not care about the consequences. Heroes are supposed to put a little more thought into doing things. However none of what Laurel is doing is OOC for her. 

Exactly, MM being evil, selfish and self centered works because he's a villain...sorry show you will never get me to think he's OK.  Laurel is being totally selfish, self centered and unlike a loving sister should act, she's making Sara's death all about her (again).

 

I bet Lance will be pissed at Laurel's actions because as much as he loves Sara, he loved her enough to let her go/rest in peace.   

[Delphi]

I'm really bitter that this show booked Jeri Ryan for only one episode. I had really been under the impression that it was going to be recurring and now I'm all up in my feels.

[BumpSetSpike]

I miss the days when I wanted to re-watch the show as soon as it ended.  

[Carrie Ann]

Sadly that actually would have been 10x better and could have still had the same result.

LL/Thea go to dig up Sara and they find an empty grave except someone accidentally left behind one of those LOA necklaces. LL/Thea go to NP to question Malcolm and, we find out that the new Ra's decided to dig Sara up and Pit her in order to keep Nyssa in line and loyal (carrot/stick). Thea confronts MM demands he lets Sara go home with them and MM (who is evil but still has affection for Thea) agrees.

 

It would have been even better (for me), if we picked up the scene where we did--the grave has been dug out, and Thea asks, "Are you sure about this?" or whatever, and then Laurel breaks down and says no. That this was a mistake and she can't bring Sara back. And then Thea and Laurel could have held each other and cried a bit, and it would have actually felt emotional and cathartic. And then that's when Thea notices, over Laurel's shoulder, that the casket is partially open already, like the seam is splintered or something, and they check it and find Sara missing. Then they find something that leads them back to the LOA, etc. So many better paths to the same result and I could have continued to just roll my eyes at Laurel instead of actively hating her!

Edited October 15, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[Angel12d]

Yeah, this definitely wasn't an episode I wanted to rewatch.

[Morrigan2575]

It would have been even better (for me), if we picked up the scene where we did--the grave has been dug out, and Thea asks, "Are you sure about this?" or whatever, and then Laurel breaks down and says no. That this was a mistake and she can't bring Sara back. And then Thea and Laurel could have held each other and cried a bit, and it would have actually felt emotional and cathartic. And then that's when Thea notices, over Laurel's shoulder, that the casket is partially open already, like the seam is splintered or something, and they check it and find Sara missing. Then they find something that leads them back to the LOA, etc. So many better paths to the same result and I could have continued to just roll my eyes at Laurel instead of actively hating her!

Yes, that would have been an even better storyline.

 

Instead we got selfish Laurel being Laurel.

[Menrva]

I'm bitter because of all the myriad stories the writers could have gone with, including all the fantastic scenarios on this forum, they instead went with the one that made Laurel look like the most self-centered jerk. No thought towards the consequences? No pause, no consideration. Just the thought of "Oooh, the Lazarus Pit is a do-over! Now I can show the world what an awesome sister I really am! I'm just so misunderstood."

 

And for pete's sake, have they never read "The Monkey's Paw"? Or watched "Pet Sematary"? Remember the Genie's warning to Aladdin about wishing to bring someone back from the dead? Anyone? Bueller? 

[lemotomato]

They never watched the "Je Souhaite" episode of X-Files either, which is what I always think of when characters don't consider the consequences of bringing back the dead.

[Primal Slayer]

I wish they had gone that way.

Then that would look like Laurel was helping Sara, not being a selfish idiot. Villains are selfish, it makes sense for them do whatever they want and not care about the consequences. Heroes are supposed to put a little more thought into doing things. However none of what Laurel is doing is OOC for her.

Everyone is selfish in general. Villains just take it to a whole nother level.

Unfortunately the writers don't think things through and life to go the simple route for a of things.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Primal Slayer

[kismet]

I wish they had gone that way.

 

Then that would look like Laurel was helping Sara, not being a selfish idiot. Villains are selfish, it makes sense for them do whatever they want and not care about the consequences. Heroes are supposed to put a little more thought into doing things. However none of what Laurel is doing is OOC for her. 

Exactly, I'm not predisposed to dislike LL or the decisions she makes. I actually feel like I was one of the few LL supporters on this forum for awhile. But I am predisposed to dislike self-absorbed people that make selfish decisions they like to wrap in false selflessness. And the sad part is this decision is completely in character with who LL has become & the decisions she makes.

 

I can get mad & bitter at the writers for making really dumb narrative & plot choices, but they completely wrote a scenario that is 100% within character. There were tons of better narrative & plot choices. But they chose an organic & authentic LL plotline to bring about something that could have elevated her character rather than shooting it down again. Even if they try to spin it heroic, I can not undo seeing her willy-nilly jump from the LP saved a dying TQ & made her crazy, but this is an awesome idea to bring SL back and lie to everyone again about it. I understand her wanting to bring her sister back. It's not that I have an issue with, its how she went about it. But after 4 seasons that's just Laurel being Laurel & that is what I am bitter about.

Edited October 16, 2015 by kismet

[bijoux]

So, here's the thing I'm bitter about. Has no one on the writing staff heard of an adverb? Just this episode I can name, "Nothing worthwhile ever comes easy", and "Things are gonna end bad," off the top off my head. It's easily and badly, come on! Plus, I'm pretty sure Laurel commited the same sin in the van with Dig. Was the school the Queens and she went to just not that good?

[icandigit]

Unfortunately, for the love of speed weed and olicity I'm guess I'm back watching this show. I just need someone to explain why they got rid of Roy but Laurel still exists. Laurel brings nothing to the table except lance family trauma and  forced relationships. Roy for all his flipping, had organic relationships with established characters and backstory to be mined. He had a connection to the glades, bad boy past, and mysterious parentage. Why is Laurel there but not Roy during this thea lazarus pit story?

[wonderwall]

Unfortunately, for the love of speed weed and olicity I'm guess I'm back watching this show. I just need someone to explain why they got rid of Roy but Laurel still exists. Laurel brings nothing to the table except lance family trauma and  forced relationships. Roy for all his flipping, had organic relationships with established characters and backstory to be mined. He had a connection to the glades, bad boy past, and mysterious parentage. Why is Laurel there but not Roy during this thea lazarus pit story?

 

Comics. That's it. 

 

AND YAY SO GLAD TO HAVE YOU BACK!!! :D

[icandigit]

Comics. That's it. 

 

AND YAY SO GLAD TO HAVE YOU BACK!!! :D

Thanks. I feel like I at least deserve to enjoy Felicity, Olicity and the rise of Speedy.

[wonderwall]

Thanks. I feel like I at least deserve to enjoy Felicity, Olicity and the rise of Speedy.

Good thing about next episode is you can fast forward all of the LL stuff. :) It's definitely what I'm going to do!

[Tangerine]

Many people have mentioned it, but one thing that absolutely irritates me about this show is how it wastes great actors and characters. I thought Kevin Alejandro was great as Brother Blood, and that storyline had a lot of long-term potential but it was absolutely wasted. Same with Slade, Shado, Vertigo and many others. Jeri Ryan was totally insignificant, and I personally really enjoy JR Bourne, so I'm guessing he's just going to end up as a disposable villain next week. They have such a rich pool of characters and stories they can take inspiration from, and I will say Arrow tends to always nail it with the casting (with a few exceptions....) But the powers that be are so eager to play with new toys that the writing suffers.

[Sakura12]

I may have started an incident on Tumblr about Laurel's selfishness in Sara's resurrection. My favorite defense so far was only Laurel suffers for her sins, while Sara gets away scot free. Because you know nearly drowning twice, having her body covered in scars, fighting for her life for last 6 years and that right DYING, wasn't paying for her sins. 

 

While Laurel loses her job, gets it back a few days later through blackmail, got over her intermittent alcohol problem again pretty quickly and can even sit at bars without any issues. When exactly did Laurel suffer any long term effects from her problems?

Edited October 18, 2015 by Sakura12

[AyChihuahua]

I may have started an incident on Tumblr about Laurel's selfishness in Sara's resurrection. My favorite defense so far was only Laurel suffers for her sins, while Sara gets away scot free. Because you know nearly drowning twice, having her body covered in scars, fighting for her life for last 6 years and that right DYING, wasn't paying for her sins. 

 

While Laurel loses her job, gets it back a few days later through blackmail, got over her intermittent alcohol again pretty quickly and can even sit at bars without any issues. When exactly did Laurel suffer any long term effects from her problems?

Dude, her daddy was mad at her for a few months!  It's really super duper traumatizing as an adult to have your daddy mad at you (while still making it clear that he loves you and not actually doing anything to you other than occasionally saying earned but mildly mean things)!!!

[hogwash]

Hope this isn't fan talk but I hate people comparing this BS to Oliver doing it for Thea more than all those defenses (they're annoying too though). How is that remotely the same thing? We had to sit through the bleh Ollie Al Ghul arc but at least he paid for it and didn't know what the consequences would be. I doubt we'll be saying that for Laurel. 

Edited October 18, 2015 by hogwash

[Sakura12]

Right, I forgot about Quentin not talking to Laurel for a few weeks because she lied to him and didn't tell him about Sara's death for months. Everything's fine now though. Laurel never faces any long term consequences while Sara always faces long term consequences and she will again because of Laurel. 

[AyChihuahua]

I hope it's clear that I was being sarcastic, because often the mad daddy thing is listed as a real consequence, and just, seriously?  She's 30.  Having a parent mad at you when you're 30 is not a big deal.  He was mildly mad at her while he was conducting a psycho manhunt for Oliver.