BtVS in the Media

[Pallas]

It's time to move on from discussing the Joss Whedon workplace harassment story, in the current absence of further news. On this subject, you are welcome to post links to future commercial or social media citations and discuss them, as they occur. But the links will need to be up-to-date and the discussion, as always, civil and not circular. Warnings may be issued for violations. Thank you. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside Joss Whedon’s ‘Cutting’ and ‘Toxic’ World of ‘Buffy’ and ‘Angel’ (EXCLUSIVE) - Variety contacted a bunch of people who worked on BtVS and Angel. These are the new tidbits:

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A person who worked closely with Carpenter while she starred on “Buffy” and “Angel” recalls the actor frequently describing Whedon as being “mean-spirited” and “verbally abusive” toward her, making it obvious to her that he had favorites — and she was not one of them. “That was his game,” this person says of Whedon. Playing favorites led to simmering animosity among the cast, according to multiple sources, both from the studio and the writers’ room.

 

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While several high-placed sources who worked on “Buffy” say they were not aware of this rule, a person with direct knowledge of the production at the time confirms to Variety that an effort was made by those around Trachtenberg to ensure the young actor was never alone with Whedon. According to this person, it was due to an improper verbal exchange between Whedon and Trachtenberg.

 

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According to sources, after Whedon created “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” in 1997, he was largely left alone, operating on a tight budget with little oversight, thanks to a steady stream of strong media buzz and rich key-demo ratings. The show shot at a relatively remote location on soundstages in Santa Monica where executives were not regularly roaming around, and the production operated much like an indie film. Insiders say the combination of Whedon’s lack of experience running a television show, the financial pressures of delivering an action-and-effects-heavy hourlong dramedy, a cast largely populated with young and eager actors, and the absence of regular supervision contributed to an environment ripe for a chaotic, highly competitive, toxic workplace. Many people who spoke with Variety described the set as operating like high school, with Whedon making everyone aware of who was in and who was out.

 

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Another major factor contributing to the messy nature of the “Buffy” set: Stories of Whedon engaging in affairs with women working on the show quickly spread, according to three independent sources. As the executive producer and showrunner, Whedon was the boss, including of the women with whom he engaged in relationships. The alleged behavior contributed to a toxic workplace and heightened competition on set, blurring the lines between personal and professional demeanor for the cast — dynamics that continued long after Whedon’s purported affairs ended.

 

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“Buffy” and “Angel” had grueling schedules, shooting 22 episodes a season, often at night. Actors requiring elaborate makeup could end up clocking 21-hour days, and shoots sometimes did not wrap until 4 a.m. It was common for production on a Friday to bleed into Saturday morning, wiping out any chance for the cast and crew to enjoy a full weekend off. The practice even had a name: Fraterdays.

In that high-pressure production environment, the “Buffy” set was often aggressively adult, with inappropriate and cutting jokes flying behind the scenes. One source with detailed knowledge of the production recalls Trachtenberg’s mother expressing frustration because the set atmosphere was inappropriate for a young teenager.

 

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Even Whedon’s top star apparently had difficulty with him. Two sources familiar with the production say that fairly early into the show’s run, Gellar had a severed relationship with Whedon, to the extent that she did not want his name spoken around her. That made for awkwardness on set. Although Whedon moved on from being the day-to-day showrunner on “Buffy” in 2001, he was still the overall executive producer, and was writing and directing episodes until the series ended in 2003.

 

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A common refrain about Whedon is that his idea of a good joke entailed being biting and downright nasty. “It was not fun to be on the butt end of his humor,” says one source.

 

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While those working under Whedon weathered his mercurial behavior, the powers that be above him viewed him as a collaborative employee — a charming producer who understood budgets and never complained about doing press to promote his shows. There is a general sense among those who spoke with Variety that Whedon knew how to “manage up,” and acted differently toward those he worked for versus those who worked for him. All of the sources were emphatic that they believe the women and men who have come forward.

 

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Gadot recently confirmed to Variety that she had been interviewed for the WarnerMedia investigation. In another interview with the Los Angeles Times, the “Wonder Woman” star said she endured her own “experience” with Whedon, which she said “wasn’t the best”; while she didn’t elaborate further, she said she brought the issue to high-ranking executives at the studio.

 

[whiporee]

I read that yesterday. I really would like some examples of the mean things said. I keep reading toxic and harsh, but I don't know what they mean in the context of Hollywood or on a set.

I still am looking for clarification from/about MT. What is an inappropriate verbal exchange with a 15-year-old? 

And while I don't care for it myself, I don't think it's illegal or unethical for a boss to play favorites. Sometimes there are reasons why you like an employee more than another one.  

[roctavia]

On 2/27/2021 at 12:05 PM, whiporee said:

I read that yesterday. I really would like some examples of the mean things said. I keep reading toxic and harsh, but I don't know what they mean in the context of Hollywood or on a set.

I still am looking for clarification from/about MT. What is an inappropriate verbal exchange with a 15-year-old? 

And while I don't care for it myself, I don't think it's illegal or unethical for a boss to play favorites. Sometimes there are reasons why you like an employee more than another one.  

It sounds to me like this playing favorites had a significant impact on people though, not just oh I like you better... but I won’t call you fat ( he has called multiple people fat to their faces) and yell at you and slam you into walls ( he did this to James Marsters) I won’t write demeaning things for your character, I’ll give you more quality screen time etc.

It pits people against each other to win his favor which makes for a toxic environment. It’s not just get more work done or be efficient at your job like at an office. 
 

One of the issues with Gal Gadot was the scene were the flash lands face first in her breasts, she didn’t want to do the scene and he locked her in a room to try and convince her to do it... her stunt double ended up the one enduring it. I’m not sure if that was her problem that she went to higher ups or if it was yet another problem with him.

Edited March 2, 2021 by roctavia

[Hiyo]

Amen to everything roctavia said.

[Joe Hellandback]

On 2/27/2021 at 6:05 PM, whiporee said:

I read that yesterday. I really would like some examples of the mean things said. I keep reading toxic and harsh, but I don't know what they mean in the context of Hollywood or on a set.

I still am looking for clarification from/about MT. What is an inappropriate verbal exchange with a 15-year-old? 

And while I don't care for it myself, I don't think it's illegal or unethical for a boss to play favorites. Sometimes there are reasons why you like an employee more than another one.  

Yes, that's what I'm wondering, we know he had his favourites (AD and AA) but doesn't everyone? Were people just keeping him away from MT because he swore in front of her?  

[Joe Hellandback]

On 2/27/2021 at 5:57 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Inside Joss Whedon’s ‘Cutting’ and ‘Toxic’ World of ‘Buffy’ and ‘Angel’ (EXCLUSIVE) - Variety contacted a bunch of people who worked on BtVS and Angel. These are the new tidbits:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This still seems a storm in a teacup, everyone worked long hours, got ratty, Joss was a commanding figure on set and folks were jealous about his affairs and favouritism? (part of me wonder is that why SMG and AH reputedly fell out or at least weren't as close as they were rumoured to be in the early years?).  And not everyone got his humour? 

[Hiyo]

Having favorites is one thing, pitting them against one another is something else, and kind of dickish.

I doubt anyone was jealous about his affairs.

Being malicious and masquerading it as humor isn't humor.

Edited March 2, 2021 by Hiyo

[whiporee]

4 hours ago, Hiyo said:

Having favorites is one thing, pitting them against one another is something else, and kind of dickish.

I doubt anyone was jealous about his affairs.

Being malicious and masquerading it as humor isn't humor.

How do you pit people against each other on a set? Tell someone that a scene was going to go to X but Y's agent got it to go to them? Or saying that we had to go late because X was late for the call? I dont' even know how you'd build competition on a set. Maybe in an SNL writer's room, where skits are being chosen, but i don't know how you'd do it with actors. 

[Hiyo]

As a few examples, quoting what rectavia said:

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It sounds to me like this playing favorites had a significant impact on people though, not just oh I like you better... but I won’t call you fat ( he has called multiple people fat to their faces) and yell at you and slam you into walls ( he did this to James Marsters) I won’t write demeaning things for your character, I’ll give you more quality screen time etc.

 

[kieyra]

14 minutes ago, whiporee said:

I dont' even know how you'd build competition on a set.

You don't think actors, especially with ensemble casts and a stressful, crappy environment, compete for screen time and good storylines? You can't picture that?

[whiporee]

4 hours ago, kieyra said:

You don't think actors, especially with ensemble casts and a stressful, crappy environment, compete for screen time and good storylines? You can't picture that?

it wasn't a rhetorical question. How would it work? I mean what's the playing field? is it conversation? or buying drinks? It's not like a sales floor, where you can push people to try to sell more -- how would promoting competition amongst actors actually work?

One of the things that I keep running into as we talk about this is that I can't make the distinction between an actor being mad about their character's storyline or actions, and the director doing it as an attack on the actor. The Gadot example demonstrates that -- she didn't like that her character got hit in the breasts with a fish. That's a perfectly fine way to feel. But if the director thinks -- for whatever reason -- it's an important (or even effective) part of the film, does that make the director bad for doing it against the actor's wishes?

If, after thinking it through and all the stuff that goes into it, JW thought the best/most entertaining/most effective way to incorporate CC's pregnancy into the show was to have her screw Conner and be the mother of the anti-Christ, does it make him a bad person for doing it even though the actor didn't like it? he could have done a lot of things with the character, but doesn't he have the right to so with his creations what he wants? I don't love what PWB did with Villanelle and Eve (or even what's he did with the character Fleabag), but I wouldn't presume to say she betrayed the actors (or herself). 

[Hiyo]

He definitely seemed to be punishing CC by having her character turn evil/possessed/whatever, fall into coma, then bring her back much later for an episode only to kill her off off-screen (when she was supposedly promised her character would not be killed off). What a douchebag.

Edited March 2, 2021 by Hiyo

[lembergwatcher]

6 hours ago, Hiyo said:

He definitely seemed to be punishing CC

For a showrunner writing shit plotlines as a means to punish an actor is like shooting himself in the foot. In the end of the day his show becomes unwatchable, the ratings go to hell and he's the one who's lost. Joss should have been smart enough (and adult enough) to know that. 

[roctavia]

7 hours ago, whiporee said:

it wasn't a rhetorical question. How would it work? I mean what's the playing field? is it conversation? or buying drinks? It's not like a sales floor, where you can push people to try to sell more -- how would promoting competition amongst actors actually work?

One of the things that I keep running into as we talk about this is that I can't make the distinction between an actor being mad about their character's storyline or actions, and the director doing it as an attack on the actor. The Gadot example demonstrates that -- she didn't like that her character got hit in the breasts with a fish. That's a perfectly fine way to feel. But if the director thinks -- for whatever reason -- it's an important (or even effective) part of the film, does that make the director bad for doing it against the actor's wishes?

If, after thinking it through and all the stuff that goes into it, JW thought the best/most entertaining/most effective way to incorporate CC's pregnancy into the show was to have her screw Conner and be the mother of the anti-Christ, does it make him a bad person for doing it even though the actor didn't like it? he could have done a lot of things with the character, but doesn't he have the right to so with his creations what he wants? I don't love what PWB did with Villanelle and Eve (or even what's he did with the character Fleabag), but I wouldn't presume to say she betrayed the actors (or herself). 

Gal did not want a man’s face landing in her breasts. It wasn’t  necessary for the storyline in any way and if they wanted something funny, they could have done it in a way that wasn’t demeaning to the only female character/ actress in the ensemble. She brought up that she didn’t like it and was then locked in a room until she agreed. That is not okay.

Edited March 3, 2021 by roctavia

[roctavia]

7 hours ago, whiporee said:

it wasn't a rhetorical question. How would it work? I mean what's the playing field? is it conversation? or buying drinks? It's not like a sales floor, where you can push people to try to sell more -- how would promoting competition amongst actors actually work?

 

Not knowing exactly how things worked on the buffy set, one thing I would think of would be things like ad libbing during scenes or blocking the scenes. If someone is a favorite, they may be the one who always gets to keep their ad lib lines in the show and the other people get "nope, you suck, re do this the way we wrote it/ the way other actor played it"  It's going to happen some times in a collaborative environment, but it would be easy for someone to "play favorites" and only the favored person gets to keep their extra lines/extra screen time/ better blocking so they are facing the camera etc.  When it becomes a pattern and the person he doesn't like never gets to have input the way the rest of the favorites do, it's obvious and not a good environment.

The same holds true when Joss was also writer on the show in that if you were his favorite, he can give you more screen time, more challenging screen time to equal "better acting" or whatever they consider for things like golden globes/emmys. If you aren't the favorite, you just get to be a punch line etc.  Not all of the cast was guaranteed to stay on the show, either... so if you know so and so got killed off because they wouldn't suck up to joss/ turned down his advances whatever, it creates competition to suck up to him to keep their jobs. Whoever brings the most expensive coffee gets to live through the next episode, not the better character/actor. That's why he was so mad at James Marsters. His character became way more popular than Joss wanted, so he couldn't just kill him off or whatever. 
 

[roctavia]

44 minutes ago, lembergwatcher said:

For a showrunner writing shit plotlines as a means to punish an actor is like shooting himself in the foot. In the end of the day his show becomes unwatchable, the ratings go to hell and he's the one who's lost. Joss should have been smart enough (and adult enough) to know that. 

I definitely think that storyline was shit and unwatchable, and the ratings seemed to agree.... so if it was the best way he could think of to incorporate her pregnancy and it wasn't meant to be an attack, then he is a much worse writer than he has been given credit for. That storyline was one of the worst things in the Angel/Buffy verse.

[Hiyo]

[Joe Hellandback]

6 hours ago, roctavia said:

I definitely think that storyline was shit and unwatchable, and the ratings seemed to agree.... so if it was the best way he could think of to incorporate her pregnancy and it wasn't meant to be an attack, then he is a much worse writer than he has been given credit for. That storyline was one of the worst things in the Angel/Buffy verse.

Actually the s4 hunting Angelus arc is my favourite in all of Angel. 

[Joe Hellandback]

13 hours ago, Hiyo said:

He definitely seemed to be punishing CC by having her character turn evil/possessed/whatever, fall into coma, then bring her back much later for an episode only to kill her off off-screen (when she was supposedly promised her character would not be killed off). What a douchebag.

According to Slayers and Vampires that was ALWAYS the storyline for season 4, what they changed was that CC herself was to play the Jasmine role but with CC's pregnancy that was out the window. She did agree to 'You're Welcome' although she was reluctant.  

7 hours ago, roctavia said:

Gal did not want a man’s face landing in her breasts. It wasn’t  necessary for the storyline in any way and if they wanted something funny, they could have done it in a way that wasn’t demeaning to the only female character/ actress in the ensemble. She brought up that she didn’t like it and was then locked in a room until she agreed. That is not okay.

That was the funniest gag of the movie, Don't know what her problem was, Lynda never objected to getting knocked out and tied up all the time. 

[Hiyo]

Then they should have kept her character around but instead they had her fall into a coma instead. Which is either revenge writing or sloppy/bad writing.

Quote

She did agree to 'You're Welcome' although she was reluctant. 

She wasn't even the first choice for that and was apparently lied to regarding the fate of her character in that episode.

In other news: The Rise and Fall of Joss Whedon, and the Myth of the Hollywood Feminist Hero.

Edited March 3, 2021 by Hiyo

[Joe Hellandback]

11 hours ago, Hiyo said:

Then they should have kept her character around but instead they had her fall into a coma instead. Which is either revenge writing or sloppy/bad writing.

She wasn't even the first choice for that and was apparently lied to regarding the fate of her character in that episode.

In other news: The Rise and Fall of Joss Whedon, and the Myth of the Hollywood Feminist Hero.

Will there be a resurrection? They forgave Mel Gibson. 

[Hiyo]

Its possible, people seem to forgive sleazy celebrities all the time.

[Halting Hex]

In sadder news, Willie Garson checked out on Tuesday, at age 57.  (He had cancer; like Norm MacDonald, he'd been keeping it a secret.)  Don the Sexy Security Guard will flex his perfect nostrils no more.

Here's hoping Willie did, in fact, "live in the now".  "Fear is for the weak" isn't bad, as mottos go, but I think the other is more pertinent.

(I met Willie once, briefly.  An actor pal and I went to an advance preview screening of Armageddon in 1999 and Willie, who knew my friend, stopped by for a few.  He seemed nice.)

[Halting Hex]

James Marsters brags and brags, and then brags some more.

Did you know Joss wanted to kill off Spike, but couldn't because he was too darn popular?  True facts, Jimmy sez!

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"I was killing people all of the time. I was shredding them, and the audience wanted more of that. And Joss thought, ‘The point is overcoming the evil!’”

Gee, and here I thought Spike had killed a whopping two people before Season 7, and only one of those (the teacher in School Hard) on camera.  He can't even successfully stake Harmony.

He's best known for a) running from Buffy like a little b*tch the first four times he meets her, at which point Buffy gets sick of this shit and drops an entire flaming church on his head. and b) sitting in his wheelchair snarking on Angel, a half-season arc that ends with Spike running away rather than killing the vamp who was banging Drusilla so often she could barely walk by the finale, and c) sulking about the Sodding Chip™ while consuming various snacks, and finally d) stalking Buffy like a lovesick bunny, because apparently he spent an entire century with Drusilla and never noticed that other women exist, too.

"Shredding them", ffs.  Xander kills as many people, at least.  Faith killed three (Allan Finch, the courier, Lester Worth).  Angel killed more humans in his first two episodes after losing his soul than Spike killed in his first 82 episodes, before the First started humming in his ear.  Sheesh.

Whatever, Jimbo.

ETA:  It's possible that Spike might have killed Ford, at Ford's request and with Buffy's consent, and the kid was dying, anyhow.   So that would make three kills (two off-screen).  But then again, that could have been Dru's work, we really don't know.

ETAA:  Crikey, Drusilla only makes 13 real-time appearances on the show (flashbacks and impersonations by the First notwithstanding), and she just blows Spike out of the water.

Sheila

Sunshine's owner ("died without a fight")

The old man that got stuck in her teeth

Doug Perren

Kendra (sniff!)

at least two people on the train in Crush (the conductor, the outline that Buffy sits in) and probably several more

The couple at the Bronze.

NINE, at minimum.  Meanwhile, Spike (even when soulless) kills more vampires than humans:  the Anointed, Lenny, the one he kills with Buffybot, Cold-Medicine vamp, the one he gets in the cemetery in All the Way, plus however many "Randy Giles" takes out.

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SPIKE:  We do still kill people, you know.  It's rather our raîson d'etre.  —Innocence.

As if you'd know, Hot Wheels.  I guess that "we like to talk big" bit wasn't just a lot of talk, ironically.

Edited October 1, 2021 by Halting Hex

[lembergwatcher]

I just love my overrated cartoon characters!

And apparently Jimmy does too... 

[Gigi43]

19 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

James Marsters brags and brags, and then brags some more.

Did you know Joss wanted to kill off Spike, but couldn't because he was too darn popular?  True facts, Jimmy sez!

Gee, and here I thought Spike had killed a whopping two people before Season 7, and only one of those (the teacher in School Hard) on camera.  He can't even successfully stake Harmony.

 

 

Spike was bad at being a villain. After season 2 he was used for comedy (even when he was making gross sexbots.) He was shredding so hard it's why he was able to just stroll away in Lover's Walk because Buffy and Angel were stunned by his shredding. Does James realize the most hardcore Spike stans like him because they think he's somehow purer than other vampires or does he just block it out like Spike's low body count? 

 

I saw a clip of that podcast the linked above article mentions where he low key brags that he got Charisma fired because he was in such high demand and he felt bad because she has a kid but she doesn't hold it against him and that's the business. Dude, she knew she was getting fired with or without you, stop with that spin. Also, as much as the WB may have wanted him, Angel lasted one more season with him. One. You'd think he went on for his own series' 5 year run. 

[lembergwatcher]

On 10/2/2021 at 3:03 AM, Gigi43 said:

Also, as much as the WB may have wanted him, Angel lasted one more season with him. One. You'd think he went on for his own series' 5 year run. 

I knew Angel's season 5 would suck the moment I saw Marsters' name in the opening credits. And it did suck big time. That's why I wasn't at all disappointed since the season totally met my (low) expectations... 

[watcher1006]

Season 5 of Angel had too many elements from the by then extinct Buffy that they tried to graft onto the show, the foremost of them being Spike. I was however more impressed with Not Fade Away as a series finale than I was with Chosen.

[Hiyo]

This idiot still doesn't get it...

Joss Whedon Denies Claims of Misconduct on ‘Justice League’ Set, Defends Trimming Cyborg Role.

The Undoing of Joss Whedon.

[txhorns79]

14 hours ago, Hiyo said:

This idiot still doesn't get it...

I don't know.  At least in terms of Buffy, I was struck by his comment about having a young cast, and how things could easily devolve into a cocktail party when the cast was not kept in line.  I can see that.  I also tend to think the environment on a lot of these shows were different in the late 90s and early 00s, and behaviors that may have been acceptable then are not acceptable now.  I'm not saying that excuse his later behaviors on movie sets or the feud between he and Charisma Carpenter, but merely to explain my thinking on it.  

[Hiyo]

Yeah, I can see how that his excuses his all of his bullshit comments.

I mean...ugh.

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"He had felt he “had” to sleep with them, that he was “powerless” to resist. I laughed. “I’m not actually joking,” he said. He had been surrounded by beautiful young women — the sort of women who had ignored him when he was younger — and he feared if he didn’t have sex with them, he would “always regret it.”

 

[illdoc]

And CC's response: https://tvline.com/2022/01/18/charisma-carpenter-responds-joss-whedon-defends-toxic-workplace-allegations/

[Halting Hex]

Yeah, the laughable "Ray Fisher poisoned Charisma against me!" "defense" Whedon offers deserves the mockery CC gave it.

I mean, timeline?

2003:  Charisma gets pregnant, to Joss's dismay.  She puts in a full day on the set two days after giving birth (just as Coma!Cordelia, but still).  Then she's fired, and gets to hear Jeff Bell's send off:  "People have lives, people have children.  Characters have storylines, and she had a great one."

(Karma came swiftly for Bell's ass.  Two years later, once Angel ended, he signed on for Alias season 5, only to see that show's storyline completely fucked by Jennifer Garner's pregnancy.  Charisma isn't the only actress with a working uterus!  Who knew?)

2004:  At Whedon's request, Charisma returns for You're Welcome, with only one condition: that Cordelia not be killed off.  (She's probably heard how pissed Emma Caulfied was to cut out of any possible further BtVS projects, against Emma's explicit wishes.). CC does her work, her shirt unbuttoned to her navel (classy, Joss!) and leaves, secure that Cordy and Angel have parted on good terms and her future looks bright.  Then the episode airs and in a coda (with only David B on set) we see that Cordelia didn't make it after all.  (If you can believe an easily-faked phone call to an easily-fooled vampire, that is.  Did I mention when the kids at UCLA hired Angel to find the key to the oarlocks?)

Fifteen years of untroubled bliss and happy memories quickly pass, until…

2019:  Satan, aka "Ray Fisher" poisons poor little CC's mind against Sweet Daddy Joss.  Damn you, Satan! Away!

And what's with the critique of Charisma's acting?  Is there some sort of sliding scale where the more an actor struggles, the more you're allowed to abuse them?  Huh. The things you learn…

Edited January 19, 2022 by Halting Hex

[txhorns79]

10 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

At Whedon's request, Charisma returns for You're Welcome, with only one condition: that Cordelia not be killed off.  (She's probably heard how pissed Emma Caulfied was to cut out of any possible further BtVS projects, against Emma's explicit wishes.). CC does her work, her shirt unbuttoned to her navel (classy, Joss!) and leaves, secure that Cordy and Angel have parted on good terms and her future looks bright.  Then the episode airs and in a coda (with only David B on set) we see that Cordelia didn't make it after all.

I could swear I remember an interview with Carpenter from the time period of the episode airing where she had said had said she was satisfied with how it ended for her character.  Has she said more recently she was somehow tricked into appearing? 

[whiporee]

It doesn't matter what she said. 

What matters is what she says now. 

Edited January 20, 2022 by whiporee

[lembergwatcher]

Who would've thought...

https://wegotthiscovered.com/tv/sarah-michelle-gellar-admits-to-clashing-with-buffy-co-star-alyson-hannigan-on-set/

[lembergwatcher]

‘Buffy’s Nicholas Brendon Shades David Boreanaz: ‘Angel’ Was ‘More Boring’ Than ‘Twilight’

In a new interview, 'Buffy' star Nicholas Brendon talks about how 'boring' David Boreanaz's character Angel was on the show, wondering why the 'brooding little guy' got his own spin-off.

https://hollywoodlife.com/2022/03/16/buffy-the-vampire-slayer-nicholas-brendon-shades-david-boreanaz-angel/

[Halting Hex]

Even if Nick's a little bitter (and perhaps jealous), I'm inclined to let it slide.  For all we know, he could just be staying in character.

I disagree about Angel being boring, though; the "ensouled vampire seeks redemption" scenario certainly had potential, and if Joss skipped ahead because he wanted to get to the glorious horror that was S2 Angelus, I can hardly blame him.  Angel the mumbling "champion" on his own series was a different issue, but that doesn't invalidate what was done here, I wouldn't think.

Actually, the truly shocking thing is how much Botox™ Marsters has been mainlining, to judge from that pic of him with SMG…

[Halting Hex]

And, speaking of Nick, apparently he's in the hospital because he had a "cardiac event" while having surgery on his spine (a recurrence of disc problems) and they were clearing out an old ACL/MCL tear in his knee while they had the knife out.

Nick's sister says the back problems were exacerbated by his having to sleep on the concrete floor of a holding cell at an Indiana jail during his most recent arrest (trying to buy pain pills with a fake prescription last year).  One could say this is a good reason not to get pinched, but you'd think they could have given him a cell with a bed.  If Indiana is so f'ing busy they're overflowing with people in the lockup, they might consider releasing the non-violent offenders before their bail hearing.  There's no statutory requirement that arrestees be held in custody before appearing before a judge, to my knowledge.

The Daily Mail article on this story contains a depressing amount of hospital pics, as well as a thorough collection of Nick's mug shots through the years (2014, 2015, 2017, 2021).  He does manage a classic Xander smile in 2015, but it's understandable that the others are rather dour.) If you're in the mood for that, you know how to use a search-engine.  I couldn't bear to link.

But they did include this little jewel from the S1 promo photos, which idk if I've seen before:

Sell that romantic chemistry, kids!   Boreanaz and his honker are only hired for three/four episodes (the pilot, Teacher's Pet, and Angel; Angel is a late addition to the Chambers Owen is SO Dreamy! script); I'm sure Buffy and Xander will be vibing with each other loooong after that guy in the velvet suit is just a memory.

(Twenty-FIVE credited seasons as a network regular later, David laughs and laughs. Not a bad résumé, dude.  Gotta hand it to you.)

Get well (in more ways than one), Nicky.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Halting Hex

[lembergwatcher]

Oh... Despite my staunch opposition to any closeness between Buffy and Xander, I gotta say that pic is damn hot. Not sure I've ever seen it before either. 

Wish NB well and getting his life back in order. 

[watcher1006]

On 7/9/2022 at 4:18 PM, lembergwatcher said:

‘Buffy’s Nicholas Brendon Shades David Boreanaz: ‘Angel’ Was ‘More Boring’ Than ‘Twilight’

In a new interview, 'Buffy' star Nicholas Brendon talks about how 'boring' David Boreanaz's character Angel was on the show, wondering why the 'brooding little guy' got his own spin-off.

https://hollywoodlife.com/2022/03/16/buffy-the-vampire-slayer-nicholas-brendon-shades-david-boreanaz-angel/

I always wondered about this. The characters of Xander and Angel had SO little chemistry on screen (S1 "Prophecy Girl" notwithstanding). Even if characters are supposed to not like each other they can still interact in a way that works. I thought Xander and Spike together were far more interesting to watch than X/A.

[lembergwatcher]

17 hours ago, watcher1006 said:

I thought Xander and Spike together were far more interesting to watch than X/A.

They were. Sometimes a little bit too interesting with all the Spike/Xander erotic fanfiction emerging these days... 

[Halting Hex]

To be fair to Cave Brow, he and Xander simply didn't have much opportunity to interact.  Angel was Buffy's love interest for pretty much his entire tenure, barring his days of evil.  So Precious had precious few scenes with non-Buffy Scoobs.  (There's exactly one Willow/Angel scene before Graduation Day, part 2. And that's with David and Alyson pretty much begging Joss to let them work together.)

Whereas Spike spent almost half of his time "in the gang" as first comic relief/wacky neighbor, and then the unrequited stalker, before Buffy "woke up and smelled the hottie" (metaphorically).  So Loser Xander and Neutered Spike get to flirt with each other while Buffy is over in the plot-heavy portions of the episode.

Whatever.

[watcher1006]

18 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

They were. Sometimes a little bit too interesting with all the Spike/Xander erotic fanfiction emerging these days... 

Yes, now that I think of it I have seen that myself.

12 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

To be fair to Cave Brow, he and Xander simply didn't have much opportunity to interact.  Angel was Buffy's love interest for pretty much his entire tenure, barring his days of evil.  So Precious had precious few scenes with non-Buffy Scoobs.  (There's exactly one Willow/Angel scene before Graduation Day, part 2. And that's with David and Alyson pretty much begging Joss to let them work together.)

Yes, that's a good point. I think that there were opportunities missed for David Boreanaz to have more screen time with Alyson Hannigan and Anthony Head. But sometimes you can question cause and effect. The writers of the show may have not given the pairing of NB and DB much material and it may have been their own missed opportunity, but it may also have been at least partially due to the fact that they knew the two didn't connect well on screen and didn't want to put too much effort there. There were only slightly less than 45 minutes of time to work with in each episode.

Plus forcing actors who don't like each other to work together takes up time and effort on set and so on.

[Halting Hex]

7 hours ago, watcher1006 said:

The writers of the show may have not given the pairing of NB and DB much material and it may have been their own missed opportunity, but it may also have been at least partially due to the fact that they knew the two didn't connect well on screen and didn't want to put too much effort there.

I'm thinking we've gone a bit OT here, but what examples of NB/DB "not connecting well" are you referring to, exactly?  You yourself have praised their first solo scene together, in Prophecy Girl, where Nick delivers a speech so memorable I can quote it by heart.  (I'll restrain myself, don't worry.)

After that, I personally feel the "stop looking at my neck!" scene is unnecessary and DB's lagging a bit when they find and revive Buffy, but I can't put those down to a "lack of connection" between the actors.  And I don't have a problem with any of their S2 interactions.

Perhaps if there's a specific X/A interaction you feel lacks this "chemistry", we could discuss it in the appropriate episode thread?  I'll be glad to hear what you have to say.

[KeithJ]

Looks like Buffy is leaving Prime on 10/8:

We can watch it on Hulu but my wife likes the "remastered" version on Amazon because it's much brighter and we can actually watch it during the day. lol

Disney+ has it outside the US and I can just fire up my VPN to watch it on my PC but we can't watch it on the TV.

Maybe Disney+ in the US will finally be adding it?

[chick binewski]

As announced back in March, Fuse did start airing Buffy on 10/1. However they've only repeated season 1 over the weekend and the schedule shows no upcoming episodes after tomorrow. The channel's web site is...lacking.

[Halting Hex]

Oooh, awesomeness!  The show is FINALLY back on DirecTV!  

(Fuse is channel 339.  No, I didn't know that, either.)

It's probably nothing more than my being older than Giles (crap, I'm almost old enough to be his father and give him a lecture about why he can't be a fighter pilot…), but there's just a certain comfort in turning on the TV and seeing your show…even with commercials, possible editing, and that stupid "remaster" 16x9 making the characters look as though they're having the floor and ceiling pushing in on them.  I've got tapes and DVDs and then entire series on my computer (and I know there are streaming options available), but there's nothing like watching the way we did back then.  If I can clear space in my DVR, I can build an archive.  (Maybe I'll just toss some Law & Order episodes.  It's not as if I'll be lacking chances to re-add those.)

The airing seems wonky, though.  It's 8:44 pm and they're just starting Act III of Teacher's Pet.  I'd say they'd been delayed by some live event, but FUSE doesn't cover sports, AFAIK.

OMG, Willow just panicked about Xander possibly getting his head bitten off.  Vulnerable Aly, right there on my TV.  Heaven, I'm in Heaven…

Anyway. here's the nominal schedule.  All times EST, so adjust for other time zones

9.00 PM -Never Kill Owen

***********************

Tuesday, October 4

10.00 AM-Welcome to the Hellmouth

11.00 AM-The Harvest

12.00 PM-Witch

*********

5.00 PM-Teacher's Pet

6.00 PM-Dang, Such a Long Title

7.00 PM-The Pack

8.00 PM-Angel

**********

Wednesday, October 5

12.00 AM-I Robot, You Jane

1.00 AM-The Puppet Show

***********

9.00 AM-Nightmares

10.00 AM-The Pack

11.00 AM-Angel

12.00 PM-I Robot, You Jane

*************

6.00 PM-The Puppet Show

7.00 PM-Nightmares

8.00 PM-Out of Mind, Out of Sight

9.00 PM-Prophecy Girl

10.00 PM-When She Was Bad

************

Thursday, October 6

9.00 AM-Out of Mind, Out of Sight

10.00 AM-Prophecy Girl

11.00 AM-When She Was Bad

**************

6.00 PM-Some Assembly Required

7.00 PM-Oh, Shit.  It's Spike

8.00 PM-Inca Mummy Girl

****************

Friday, October 7

1.00 AM-Reptile Boy

2.00 AM-Halloween

**********************

10.00 AM-SAR

11.00 AM-School Hard

**********************

4.00 PM-Inca Mummy Girl

5.00 PM-Reptile Boy

6.00 PM-Halloween

*******************

Saturday, October 8

12.00 AM-Lie to Me

1.00 AM-The Dark Age

••••••••••••••••••••••

4.00 PM-Lie to Me

5.00 PM-The Dark Age

6.00 PM-What's My Line, Part 1

*********************

11.30 PM-What's My Line, Part 2

**********************

Sunday, October 9

12.30 AM-Ted

…and so forth. 

Looks to be two airings per episode after they get rolling, with the time slots sliding back and forth and the occasional late-night spots popping up.  Get to know your DVR, I suppose.

(They didn't run over; they just put the end credits superimposed over the final few seconds and cut out the final ad-break, going right into the next episode. A little weird, but bearable.  And the only edit I noticed was that they cut the first two lines of "Stoner Love" by Superfine and the camera panning across the Bronze, jumping ahead to our finding Buffy sitting alone, before Angel shows.)

Thanks for the heads-up!

[Halting Hex]

Key episodes on Fuse (I'll probably end up saving Bad Eggs, but I recognize that's a minority position):

1st airing of Innocence, next Monday at 11.00 AM (no re-air, shockingly)

1st airing of Passion, next Monday at 7.00 PM (re-airs at noon on Tuesday)

1st airing of Becoming, Part 2, next Wednesday at midnight (both parts of Becoming re-air sequentially on that Wednesday, from 6-8 PM.)

"I describe myself as tingly," to quote Principal Snyder.  (His friends just call him "R.")