S02.E12: Postpartum

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Offred is sent to a familiar place. Nick is rocked by Gilead’s brutal response to a crime. Emily is assigned to a mysterious new house.

Promo:

[AnswersWanted]

Ack...Emily stay strong! 

Just what this show needed, another awful wife I hope dies in a fire or burns at the stake.

How sad for you lady, your rape victim of the month just barely escaped a toxic waste death camp, it’s gotta suck to be you, huh?

[mamadrama]

I actually have a good feeling about this commander. I think this promo is just meant to throw us off a little. It is my hope that things will not be completely as they seem at first. But yeah, the wife seems to be a real winner, huh?

[AnswersWanted]

 I know the actor well and I like his work, the last thing I saw him in though was the movie “Get Out” so he can definitely go either way, heh, but I think he’ll be a good addition, hopefully, either way it plays out. 

Gilead is its’ own “the sunken place”. 

Even if he just ends up being an enemy to Fred and takes him down somehow, that would work for me.

The wife can take a hike to the hanging wall. Calling Emily “It”?? She seemed unstable, dangerous, to me. 

I wish Emily could have returned to the home of her last posting, that wife seemed human at least, considerate somewhat. 

I am glad to see her getting some real screen time again.

It’d be a nice touch if the show explains more about what she’s been through since returning from the colony and exactly what physical damage she has suffered being exposed to those toxins.

I really don’t know if I can handle Serena going off about “her baby” ad nauseam.

So June must have either kept her mouth shut about the true details of her rape and overly eventful labor and delivery once she was recovered, or no one gave a shit about what happened because she’s a womb slave with no rights and Fred and Serena skipped down to “Ye Ol’ Pictographs and Portraits Shoppe” to get their family pictures taken. 

Lovely. 

[LittleRed84]

I am surprised at how devastated I feel regarding Serena getting June’s baby... I figured it was coming, was prepared all season. Yet somehow, with June being on her own for the birth, I’m so much more sad than I expected I’d be... Like I was hopeful for another outcome.

Silly me.    

I think that it’s pointless to hope for good anymore. I set myself up for disappointment.  ?

[graefin]

I can't quite make out what that wife is saying about Emily. Can someone provide a transcript?

EDIT: Ah, nevermind. On fourth rewatch, it appears she's saying, "You're disgusting; I hate you!" Which is interesting if they've just met. And why would they send someone who's been exposed to toxic chemicals for an extended length of time to birth babies unless they are looking for "shredders"? Is this show supposed to make sense?

Edited June 27, 2018 by graefin

[GraceK]

Lol did Serena seriously just say “ did you let her touch my baby “? Bitch please !!! 

My last remaining shred of hope is that Nick does something, that he remembers that Holly is actually HIS baby and stabs Serena or does something brutal to the Waterford’s. Uses his status as an eye to have them arrested or something.

[Umbelina]

This show is so completely and thoroughly spoiled I can't believe it. 

The promos give nearly everything important away, and other massive spoilers tell the rest.  I've never seen a show so spoiled, except perhaps reality shows like TAR or Survivor.

[mamadrama]

6 hours ago, Umbelina said:

This show is so completely and thoroughly spoiled I can't believe it. 

The promos give nearly everything important away, and other massive spoilers tell the rest.  I've never seen a show so spoiled, except perhaps reality shows like TAR or Survivor.

Some seasons of American Horror Story have laid out the entire season plot wise before it even airs. I wish THT was even more spoiled than it is. We know relatively nothing about episode 13, for instance. I need more. 

Edited June 28, 2018 by mamadrama

[AnswersWanted]

7 hours ago, graefin said:

I can't quite make out what that wife is saying about Emily. Can someone provide a transcript?

EDIT: Ah, nevermind. On fourth rewatch, it appears she's saying, "You're disgusting; I hate you!" Which is interesting if they've just met. And why would they send someone who's been exposed to toxic chemicals for an extended length of time to birth babies unless they are looking for "shredders"? Is this show supposed to make sense?

 

Right before that, they show scenes where the wife is calling Emily an “It”, she’s not even referring to her as a person, but merely as a thing that has been tainted and poisoned and brought into her home.

 I am getting major psychotic vibes from that chick already.

[NoSpam]

On ‎6‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 10:43 AM, graefin said:

I can't quite make out what that wife is saying about Emily. Can someone provide a transcript?

EDIT: Ah, nevermind. On fourth rewatch, it appears she's saying, "You're disgusting; I hate you!" Which is interesting if they've just met.

I thought she was talking to her husband.

[BellyLaughter]

The wife definitely doesn’t appear to be thriving in Gilead lol 

[NoSpam]

9 hours ago, BellyLaughter said:

The wife definitely doesn’t appear to be thriving in Gilead lol 

I'd imagine they've banned helpful medications for mental illnesses. Pray out the cray!

[jhjhjh]

I'm already enraged seeing Serena so happy with her stolen child. 

[Brn2bwild]

Anyone else having trouble getting the episode to drop on Hulu?  I keep seeing "Holly" as the "new" episode.

[Umbelina]

1 minute ago, Brn2bwild said:

Anyone else having trouble getting the episode to drop on Hulu?  I keep seeing "Holly" as the "new" episode.

Not this week, but it happens to me all the time.  Just click around, use the drop down menu by episodes and click "most recent" or whatever, or start to play the old one, then reload and the new one may pop up. 

[Brn2bwild]

16 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Not this week, but it happens to me all the time.  Just click around, use the drop down menu by episodes and click "most recent" or whatever, or start to play the old one, then reload and the new one may pop up. 

It's not working for me.  Are you guys actually able to watch the episode?

[Umbelina]

The breast pump!  I've honestly never seen one in action, that was...interesting.

Are the seriously just going to skip right over why in the hell June was at her daughter's new parent's empty house?  COME ON SHOW!  Plot points and stories dropping on my toes so much I may have to get some heavier boots.  It will help with wading through this shit too.

I love Commander Lawrence's house!  A Martha that swears and sasses the boss, and a Commander that says "Super."  The crazy art, all of it cool.  At least it's different!  Praise be!

3 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

It's not working for me.  Are you guys actually able to watch the episode?

Yes, just keep clicking around, this happens to me all the time, but this week, it showed up right where it was supposed to me.  Maybe they finally fixed my issue and created some for others.

[AnswersWanted]

Holly giving Serena all the major baby side eye that she could when Serena dared ‘bless’ her was a thing of beauty.

Her bullshit act can’t even fool a newborn. 

When Lydia said the baby “looked just like her father” one of Nick’s eyebrow twitched strongly, what acting skills...

Fred looked at June’s leaking breasts like he was the one desperate to feed.

What a vile, disgusting, pig. And all the while holding a half starved baby due to his wife’s pathetically low self esteem. 

Serena would rather watch a newborn struggle for necessary nourishment than put aside her own insecurities for the first key months of  her “blood baby’s” first months, at least, what a mother.

She’s a joke. 

Bradley is a fucking rock star! Holy shit why did they wait so long to bring him on?? 

Commander Lawrence: “Don’t touch my fucking stuff!” 

Superstar Martha who better get a name: “It’s in my way!”

Commander Lawrence: ”Do you want a beating?”

Superstar Martha who better get a name: Scoffs “Try it, old man.”

Now that is the kind of Commander’s household I have been desperately waiting to see, so wild and crazy and fucked up from the second you enter the door. 

Ann Dowd’s look of disgust, coupled with horror, mingled with dark curiosity at the state of the home when dropping Emily off was glorious. 

Emily was so lost and scared trying to make heads or tails of what sort of house she’d been brought to. 

The wife...again, where have the women like her been hiding? It was so good to hear a woman of status finally speak, scream, the truth. 

Holly’s incessant cries of hunger and frustration were like ringing alarm bells in Serena’s ears, she can’t give the baby what she truly needs, because she is incapable, and keeping her stashed away from her true Mama will never change that. And that ringing is only going to get louder and louder as time goes on. 

Fred calling Eden a “slut” was real rich.

He cheats on his wife, he rapes his handmaids both ceremonially and not, while he plays around with imprisoned sex slaves on the side. 

The conversation between Emily and Lawrence was breathtaking. So much skill and nuance and depth, in so many subtle, beautiful ways. 

It was all just good fucking acting. 

What a waste with the drowning.

I still think it was a lazy, half-assed way to deal with the situation. 

Eden was capable of a lot more, so was the actress. 

Yes, Serena, by your hand a poor, sweet girl in love was murdered. You are the Eve of the Garden of Gilead, and you finally were forced to eat of your own poisoned fruit. Quite bitter, isn’t it?

And who the fucks brings a newborn to a public execution?? 

Is there no outside waiting room free from horrific scenes of torture and the accompanying weeping and wailing of distress and agony coming from the audience?

Okay, show, Serena realized the only true way to soothe the baby she stole was to hand her back to her real, milk laden, mother. 

What, you want a cookie?

Blessed be the Fruit Loops, this show. 

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

After unsuccessfully thrusting her dried up breast into a stolen baby's mouth, Serena Joy allows the mother to breastfeed her child.

 

Do you see how benevolent she is? How complex a character?

Do you love her now?!!!

[rideashire]

Commander Lawrence's household is the viewpoint I feel like we've been missing out on til now. We get shown all the true believers, but never the ones that just aren't feeling it.

No one in that place is happy with the system and I'm enjoying the snarky Martha and the Commander being sort of jerk but in a...different way? I like him. Even the crazy wife is okay, she doesn't seem nuts so much as haunted by what her husband has done. I hope he's haunted by it too, maybe that's why he's got such an attitude about the whole thing. I dunno about him literally tossing his wife into the room, but I'm reserving judgement til we know more. My 'what if he's a good one' radar is pinging for him.

I feel like next week Emily is going to find out Lawrence is on her side. I really hope I'm right. She deserves to be somewhere safe and I think if the Martha in that house can tell the commander to "try it old man" then maybe this is Emily's best option right now. I wonder if he's part of the resistance. Working to bring down what he helped create from the inside. That's a storyline I'd be happy to watch, I was already wishing we'd go back there every time they cut away.

But watch me hope for this and then the show is gonna open with him raping her next week and I'll have to flip a fucking table. :/

[AnswersWanted]

2 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

After unsuccessfully thrusting her dried up breast into a stolen baby's mouth, Serena Joy allows the mother to breastfeed her child.

 

Do you see how benevolent she is? How complex a character?

Do you love her now?!!!

 

I love how she actually was naive, frankly stupid, enough to believe a hungry baby would or could be soothed by a dry feeding.

Little Ms. Holly was not having it, heh,  I can just envision a thought bubble above her little head saying: “ This one is empty! Fuck! Where’s my milk, dammit!!  I don’t need your shit apologies, lady, I need FOOD!”. 

[Umbelina]

Ah, Nick tried so hard to get Eden to save herself, and poor June is going to blame her self for their lovely little talk about grabbing love where ever you can find it.

Eden is was so very young, I think this will spur a lot of story, but I'm sad to see her go.

[LittleRed84]

15 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

Fred looked at June’s leaking breasts like he was the one desperate to feed.

Yessss I immediately noticed how he seemed turned on. So gross. 

16 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

When Lydia said the baby “looked just like her father” one of Nick’s eyebrow twitched strongly

Omg I snorted out loud. She has no idea what she is saying!

[chocolatine]

This episode was so full of needless misery and suffering that it made me numb to the final scene. Whatever the show wanted me to feel, I didn't. I also don't care if Serena finds a cure for cancer and ends world hunger, she's beyond redemption.

Commander Lawrence is one sick bastard. He was the one who came with up with the colonies and other inhumane punishments, and now he "collects" the people who were subjected to said punishments like it's all just a social experiment to him. Notice that his Martha was missing an eye, that's why she kept bumping into things.

[jhjhjh]

Another episode that's powerful on its own merits, but thinking logically in terms of what else has happened this season makes it less so. I'm starting to think it's better to think of this season as almost a short story collection, given the lack of consistency and continuity from episode to episode. 

June/Serena's story was the least interesting of the three this week. And how quickly everything gets walked back from the last episode or two. "Nick is shot and shoved into a van!...Nah, he's fine." "June almost escaped again; there will be consequences!...Nah, she's fine." "Serena wants June out of the house asap after giving birth!...Welcome back, June." "Serena does not want June to touch or even come close to the baby!...Here, June, please breastfeed Nicole." 

I'm excited to see what the future has in store for Emily's storyline. It was pretty much on pause for a month.

Edited July 4, 2018 by jhjhjh

[Umbelina]

That was a lovely episode.

So different, and so horrifying and yet touching too.  More of this please! 

Even Eden's death was somehow beautiful, though awful and terribly sad at the same time.

"Love is patient, love is kind..."

Neither Issac nor Eden willing to admit that loving was sin.  Very Romeo and Juliet, and I completely bought it. 

I also think Nick did a good job pleading with her, and his guilt, though very subtle, was all over him after.

I enjoy Serena and June having those bonding moments, in spite of everything, they have so much between them, secrets, guilt, horror, cruelty, but also respect, and I Serena does love her baby almost as much, but in a different way, than June.

I was shocked when the closed captioning called her "Nicole."  Et tu writers?

Emily and Commander Lawrence are so weird and so compelling!  I hope we spend a lot of time with them.

[AnswersWanted]

1 minute ago, LittleRed84 said:

Yessss I immediately noticed how he seemed turned on. So gross. 

Omg I snorted out loud. She has no idea what she is saying!

 

What show was it, I think it was American Horror Story during one of their first seasons where they had a character, a serial killer if I am not mistaken, that enjoyed breast-feeding.

I try to keep myself good and spoiled with this show, but for a second there I thought we were going to transition from Fred trying to proposition June with how she could show her “appreciation” to him more for arranging the Hannah meet up and suddenly we were going to be in his office where he’s curled up on the couch nursing from her.

I am so grateful that did not happen I cannot put it into words.

I do wonder if Lydia might have her suspicions about which Commanders actually fathered their blood babies or not.

I wouldn’t be surprised if she knew exactly which girls found, or in June’s case were forced to accept, whatever viable source was available to them, but just like everyone else drinking the kool-aid in Gilead it’s just the way things are, something to know but to never speak of.

It allows them to keep up the pretense that the system is actually working.

[LittleRed84]

1- I never thought nick was shot. That shot went into the ground. Doesn’t surprise me that he’s fine  I bet it’s him that went back for her after things got sorted out  

2- The Serena-June relationship is giving me whiplash. Seriously. 

3- IMO Holly should have had more olive skin and black hair. As a nurse I see all the time how strong those dark hair/skin genes are. She’s very fair. I wanted a baby that was obviously and blatantly Nicks...

4- Notice at the end that Nick was still wearing his ring? And he walked away from June? Is he just sad or is it more than that?

5- Commander Lawrence is so interesting!! I can’t figure him out. Apparently neither could Emily (gulps the wine)... 

[rideashire]

15 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

This episode was so full of needless misery and suffering that it made me numb to the final scene. Whatever the show wanted me to feel, I didn't. I also don't care if Serena finds a cure for cancer and ends world hunger, she's beyond redemption.

Commander Lawrence is one sick bastard. He was the one who came with up with the colonies and other inhumane punishments, and now he "collects" the people who were subjected to said punishments like it's all just a social experiment to him. Notice that his Martha was missing an eye, that's why she kept bumping into things.

Maybe, or maybe it's an attempt at redemption to find the ones most brutalized by the system that he now regrets creating? I don't know yet, he's a weird one and I'm not sure. But I get the feeling he's not happy with the outcome of his choices.

In other news, I liked that his house was sort of different and interesting, BUT I want to know if it's required when you join Gilead that the interior of your home steps back a hundred years along with your beliefs. Because all these houses are damn depressing. The furniture, the wallpaper, the art (even Lawrence had some old man painting on his wall, in the hallway), the colors are sad, the vibe is sad. How did they find all these fancy houses that hadn't already been renovated to look like something out of Fixer Upper with Joanna Gaines shiplap and open floor plans? You know half the places on these blocks probably got that treatment. Unrealistic, show.

Edited July 4, 2018 by rideashire

[AnswersWanted]

18 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

This episode was so full of needless misery and suffering that it made me numb to the final scene. Whatever the show wanted me to feel, I didn't. I also don't care if Serena finds a cure for cancer and ends world hunger, she's beyond redemption.

Commander Lawrence is one sick bastard. He was the one who came with up with the colonies and other inhumane punishments, and now he "collects" the people who were subjected to said punishments like it's all just a social experiment to him. Notice that his Martha was missing an eye, that's why she kept bumping into things.

 

The ending was way too sappy to me and trying way too hard to “have a touching moment”, chicken soup for the Gilead captive kind of vibe.

Oh look, Serena won’t let her stolen baby starve to death just yet, yay...what the fuck ever, she’s not making up for shit by being just slightly aware that a baby can and will die if not cared for properly. 

She already witnessed this with Janine’s previous girl. 

But lest we forget another way babies can thrive? When they aren’t ripped from the loving arms of their real mothers and held captive by a complete sociopath who would rather put them in cute outfits every 10 minutes than care about a severely dwindling milking supply. 

Serena stepped over a countless number of dead and dying bodies to get this kid, Including too many innocent children to count, I have no doubt that she would hang June upside down from the ceiling and hand milk her herself if that meant saving Holly. 

Edited July 4, 2018 by AnswersWanted

[Umbelina]

What complex characters, this episode really brought that out.  I detest cookie cutter heroes and cookie cutter villains.  It's much more interesting when there are so many layers to explore.

Fred the least complex, and in many ways, the easiest to understand.  He's a weak man given power, but it still doesn't make him feel like enough of a man, or at least not what he thinks being a "man" means.  He must dominate, and at the same time, seems to want to "win" June by his nonexistent allure.

She can use that if she's smart, and I think she's getting smarter all the time.

I'm thrilled with the new Commander, but I absolutely don't trust him.  I could be wrong, but I don't think it's the wife that's the nut in that family.

[mamadrama]

40 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

After unsuccessfully thrusting her dried up breast into a stolen baby's mouth, Serena Joy allows the mother to breastfeed her child.

 

Do you see how benevolent she is? How complex a character?

Do you love her now?!!!

I actually really do. I love her crazy ass. Her sociopathic shtick is pretty much the only reason I am tuning in right now. 

22 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

 

Emily and Commander Lawrence are so weird and so compelling!  I hope we spend a lot of time with them.

I hate that we're only going to get 2 episodes in this season. Wish they'd brought him on sooner. Even knowing what I know from the spoilers, I was still on edge. I just love Lyman. 

[Souris]

5 minutes ago, LittleRed84 said:

1- I never thought nick was shot. That shot went into the ground. Doesn’t surprise me that he’s fine  I bet it’s him that went back for her after things got sorted out  

4- Notice at the end that Nick was still wearing his ring? And he walked away from June? Is he just sad or is it more than that?

I think he's feeling incredibly guilty. He ignored Eden and never gave her anything, because he was in love with June. And now Eden is dead because she was so desperate for affection. (As for Isaac, I didn't believe that he'd willingly die for love. He seemed too much of a hard-ass for that. But the situation was really all about Eden. That poor kid.)

I thought Nick was shot at the end of the ep when it happened, but then when there was no blood all over that pristine snow in the next episode, I realized he must not have been shot. But I sure wanted more of a transition than "a few weeks later."

59 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

I love Commander Lawrence's house!  A Martha that swears and sasses the boss, and a Commander that says "Super."  The crazy art, all of it cool.  At least it's different!  Praise be!

 

26 minutes ago, rideashire said:

I feel like next week Emily is going to find out Lawrence is on her side. I really hope I'm right. She deserves to be somewhere safe and I think if the Martha in that house can tell the commander to "try it old man" then maybe this is Emily's best option right now. I wonder if he's part of the resistance. Working to bring down what he helped create from the inside. That's a storyline I'd be happy to watch,

Same! I really want to know more about what's going on in Bradley Whitford's house. It's so creepy but interesting. It's almost like some effed-up Jane Eyre shit. (Not really, but anytime there's a young woman coming into a secretive household with a crazy wife kept upstairs, you just have to make the comparison.)

13 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Commander Lawrence is one sick bastard. He was the one who came with up with the colonies and other inhumane punishments, and now he "collects" the people who were subjected to said punishments like it's all just a social experiment to him. Notice that his Martha was missing an eye, that's why she kept bumping into things.

Now that's a 180 degree take from what I was thinking! I figured (hoped?) he was accepting the recalcitrant people who were on their last chances, to try to "make up" in some small way for his part in the whole thing. It could go either way.

Serena is getting on my nerves with her whiplashing personality shifts. I suppose they may be trying to portray a "two steps forward, one step back" kind of thing, but it's gotten repetitive and annoying. I have hopes that this is going to end up with the baby getting yanked from her arms (hopefully to safety) -- let her see how that feels.

Fred is a nasty perv and needs to die. At some point somebody needs to figure out there's a reason women keep running away from his house.

Fucking bran muffin.

[LittleRed84]

45 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

Do you see how benevolent she is? How complex a character?

Do you love her now?!!!

Yes! I stand by the complexity of the character and the skill of the actress. Her tendency to be all over the map is one of the things I like. People are messy and complicated. It’s a reprieve from the close up shots of Elisabeth’s facial pores and sweat glands ??‍♀️

[Umbelina]

I loved Nick talking about them escaping "out west somewhere."  I kept picturing the two of them fighting with the resistance, and living with a group of Americans still fighting for their country, complete with men doing the camping dishes and women strapped with weapons.  Normal talking, no "blessed be the fruit" shit, kids fighting along side their own parents.

[mamadrama]

40 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

 

I love how she actually was naive, frankly stupid, enough to believe a hungry baby would or could be soothed by a dry feeding.

Little Ms. Holly was not having it, heh,  I can just envision a thought bubble above her little head saying: “ This one is empty! Fuck! Where’s my milk, dammit!!  I don’t need your shit apologies, lady, I need FOOD!”. 

I don't think she thought the baby would actually be soothed by her breast; I think that Serena Joy (who intellectually knows that she is NOT this kid's mother) was desperate to feel like a "real" mother. Serena is basically just playing the part of "mother" right now-dressing and undressing Holly like a doll, showing her off, etc. The fake breastfeeding was just part of the game. I got the impression that she was just "playing", pretending that SHE was the one who was breastfeeding and providing for Holly. When Holly squawked, however, it brought her back to reality. 

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

5 minutes ago, LittleRed84 said:

Yes! I stand by the complexity of the character and the skill of the actress. Her tendency to be all over the map is one of the things I like. People are messy and complicated. It’s a reprieve from the close up shots of Elisabeth’s facial pores and sweat glands ??‍♀️

You see, the thing for me is that I have very strong negative feelings when she is on screen. Like when I realized she was going to inset her breast into the mouth of someone else' baby's.

The shit Serena Joy does is not complex. Nor do I find her compelling. She disgusts me.

[Umbelina]

So, small thing that may end up being huge...

Fred is in charge of media now? 

I'm seriously hoping that means reporters, travel, the outside world, information about the wars, all kinds of stuff that is true that Fred has to spin.  I'm all about more information.

[AnswersWanted]

22 minutes ago, jhjhjh said:

Another episode that's powerful on its own merits, but thinking logically in terms of what else has happened this season makes it less so. I'm starting to think it's better to think of this season as almost a short story collection, given the lack of consistency and continuity from episode to episode. 

June/Serena's story was the least interesting of the three this week. And how quickly everything gets walked back from the last episode or two. "Nick is shot and shoved into a van!...Nah, he's fine." "June almost escaped again; there will be consequences!...Nah, she's fine." "Serena wants June out of the house asap after giving birth!...Welcome back, June." "Serena does not want June to touch or even come close to the baby!...Here, June, please breastfeed Nicole." 

I'm excited to see what the future has in store for Emily's storyline. It was pretty much on pause for a month.

 

The mental gymnastics this show has made me perform to try and make sense of each episode to the next, I’m so tired at this point that I just accept things as they are presented.

I do think that is why I am so jaded about much of what is going on, and I am not impressed with most of what the show seems to be so proud of coming up with.

Drowning Eden and Isaac? I didn’t bat an eye, I just thought it was stupid. They never even bothered to give me, at least personally, a single reason to care about these kids enough to be whatsoever moved that they are now dead.

Sure it shouldn’t have happened, but this is Gilead, I felt more when the innocent Martha got shot on the street while fumbling for her pass in her clothes. 

Serena spending the whole entire episode figuring out that allowing the real mother to become a wet-nurse to her own child is just common sense? Yawn, what’s next.

Fred gets horny thinking about lactating breasts? Not necessary and seriously, ew. 

Lawrence seems like the type of character that could and would think of Gilead, he is on another level, the type of man that Fred would tremble in his shoes to stand before, he is a living demon of sorts, and Bradley played him so expertly...I was just happy.

I also took note of his mentioning the loss of a child being so similar to losing a limb, losing such a key part of yourself. Foreshadowing much?

The dude is batshit bananas and I am here for it. 

Emily was such a breath of fresh air. A handmaid I can still 100% root for despite all the additional bullshit. 

But as far as watching this episode and thinking that it was cohesive? Not even close. I picked it apart and I found the few parts that I liked and enjoyed, and I do think that’s a shame.

Trying to make this episode work following what we saw last week in “Holly”? If anything, to me, half of the scenes should not even have occurred.

 A good portion of the episode felt absolutely rushed to me.

The show wanted to get to a certain point before episode 13, the finale, and they were going to shove and stuff and cram as needed to get there, whether it made sense or not was obviously not the point., imho. 

They needed, or wanted, Eden and Issac dead for “reasons” (plot shit), June once again is back in Serena’s supposed good graces, Fred once again is feeling like June likes him, she really likes him, and of course more hideous shit going down in Gilead that shows that they don’t give two blessed fucks about fertile girls or young men or the future generations, they just like a lot of killing when it suits them, oh my goodness whatever might such a long ass overdue realization trigger amongst the Gilead crew now...??

Jesus take the unaccompanied wheel. 

[mamadrama]

6 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

You see, the thing for me is that I have very strong negative feelings when she is on screen. Like when I realized she was going to inset her breast into the mouth of someone else' baby's.

The shit Serena Joy does is not complex. Nor do I find her compelling. She disgusts me.

I think that's part of what makes it a good show (you know, when it's not being crappy). We all can kind of walk away with different feelings and takeaways from the characters/plots.

And then we can all come together to bitch about how crappy it is when it starts getting REALLY bad. 

2 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

 

 

 A good portion of the episode felt absolutely rushed to me.

 

A good portion felt rushed to me, and yet a good portion also felt very drawn out. I felt like a lot of scenes just had so...much...pause...At one point my daughter screamed, "Come on! We want to see something happen, we've seen enough closeups of your face!" Granted, she's 6, but she had a point. 

[AnswersWanted]

32 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

I don't think she thought the baby would actually be soothed by her breast; I think that Serena Joy (who intellectually knows that she is NOT this kid's mother) was desperate to feel like a "real" mother. Serena is basically just playing the part of "mother" right now-dressing and undressing Holly like a doll, showing her off, etc. The fake breastfeeding was just part of the game. I got the impression that she was just "playing", pretending that SHE was the one who was breastfeeding and providing for Holly. When Holly squawked, however, it brought her back to reality. 

 

I took it to be a mix of both.  

She wanted to feel like she was Holly‘s real mother, I doubt that desperate need to lie to herself is ever going to go away, and she also wanted to soothe Holly and get her to stop crying.

A real mother knows how to soothe and calm their baby, at least in Serena’s “perfect world of motherhood “ that lives inside her mind, and she knew that Holly wanted to feed so a part of her believed that her breast could serve as a sort of pacifier. That it would make up for the fact it was a dry feed and Holly would still have an empty belly to cope with. 

I think Serena probably saw flashes of Janine’s baby in her head, how so often she mocked the wife, how she criticized her and chided her for not knowing how to care for her baby properly, how to make her stop crying, how to show her love as a mother.

And then when it was her own turn Serena was just as helplessness and hapless and inept and unable to do a thing for the squalling baby that was calling out for her mother, her real mother.

I think that is what triggered Serena to begin apologizing to her and she stopped her pointless game of pretend, although the baby could have cared less, Holly just wanted her Mama. 

And pacifiers have been banned in Gilead I guess, and I am scared to think about why...I swear, these people got rid of the most important things and left so much useless shit behind instead. 

Even way, way back in the old school, talking eons ago, heh, they knew that it was a good thing to give babies something to suckle on if they were not nursing, it’s just a nice way to help soothe the kid between feedings. 

Edited July 4, 2018 by AnswersWanted

[VagueDisclaimer]

That opening, watching that beautiful little baby being bathed by Serena? I’d never thought i could find a scene like that disgusting, but there I was, curling my lip. 

While I do think Serena is a complex character with a good actress, I don’t feel sympathy, empathy, or anything truly complex for her. When she’s chatting about mommyhood with Eden and how “its all worth it”, I just dreamed about the moments that eventually forced her to choke on those words. I want to see her hurt and have things torn from her grasp and leave her gasping at the loss. I want to see her lose and punished, full stop.

The baby was at the drowning because we needed that moment of Serena and June to look to her as she fussed, the way that babies do and have that moment juxtaposed with a young girl about to be punished for carelessly falling in love, the way young girls do. We had to have that moment of these “mothers” recognizing that Holly/Nicole could easily be Eden. Of course, June understood this long ago, Serena’s still playing catch-up on free will and the ladies and all that stuff she tossed in the trash while helping to form Gilead. 

I felt for Eden, because she was such an innocent, but I would’ve cared a whole lot more if her love for Isaac amounted to more than a minute of onscreen flirtation and half a minute of onscreen kissing. It is very Romeo & Juliet, but I found them stupid too. I rolled my eyes too when Eden started with “Love is kind...”. This is a girl that was raised in this world of female service and arranged child brides. I’m confused where this devout girl got so caught up with this teen angst that she wouldn’t even plead for her life.

For once, I felt Nick’s emotions in a scene without June. The way he plead and apologized in his scene with Eden was some closure on that story, but it felt like a quick little bow to get done before she died. 

Edited July 4, 2018 by VagueDisclaimer

[Umbelina]

7 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

That it would make up for the fact it was a dry feed and Holly would still have an empty belly to cope with. 

Rita offers her a bottle right before that scene and Serena said no, she had just fed.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

10 minutes ago, VagueDisclaimer said:

That opening, watching that beautiful little baby being bathed by Serena? I’d never thought i could find a scene like that disgusting, but there I was, curling my lip. 

Exactly! 

Yet another Serena scene that made me rage. I am just so freaking sick of this character. I feel like these "complex" moments she is given is to extend her longitivtiy on the show and I resent the fuck out of that manipulation. 

Edited July 4, 2018 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[Umbelina]

8 minutes ago, VagueDisclaimer said:

I felt for Eden, because she was such an innocent, but I would’ve cared a whole lot more if her love for Isaac amounted to more than a minute of onscreen flirtation and half a minute of onscreen kissing. It is very Romeo & Juliet, but I found them stupid too.

Yes, more time with them would have definitely helped with the impact of this, and also shown Issac to be more than just an asshole.

I was still moved by her faith in love and God though, she's so young...Issac didn't repent either, looks like her really loved her.

[AnswersWanted]

25 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Rita offers her a bottle right before that scene and Serena said no, she had just fed.

 

Maybe it’s just me but I don’t trust her enough to know how to take care of a house plant, let alone knowing whether or not a baby has had enough to eat. 

The fact that Rita offered to get her another bottle to me says that she was positively aware that the baby was still hungry. 

Rita is a real mother after all who would know from past experience. 

The way that Holly was crying, I have cared for many a hungry baby in my time, that kind of screaming from a newborn means one of two things, normally, they are wet and need a change or they’re hungry and they want to feed. 

There was just no way in that moment Rita could impose her opinion on Serena, how could she? She’s just the housekeeper. 

Of course all babies vary, but that sort of wail usually indicates the baby wants more of something.

Maybe it wasn’t milk, but whatever it was it still was something Serena could not offer her but very temporarily and it was nowhere near enough to calm Holly down. 

Oh, I forgot another potential cause that is very common, illness or sickness on the part of the child could also trigger that strong of a cry.

But considering the way they played the scene, I'm going to lean towards Holly just being under fed.

Ymmv. 

Edited July 4, 2018 by AnswersWanted

[VagueDisclaimer]

While Serena hid away with the baby, Fred was proudly dangling that baby whenever he could. When he has Nick hang that portrait in the office and was going on how they help each other out (meaning Nick’s sperm makes Fred look like less of the impotent, lowly sadist that he is) and that picture should be inspiring to Nick. And later in the church, yes I snorfled at Aunt Lydia’s comment about the baby looking just like his dad in front of Nick and June, but also, the manipulating of June’s body’s natural response was upsetting and not just because it turned Fred on. I’m waiting for Nick orJune to just snap and fucking throttle him. 

I’m disappointed that an interesting character and setting is being introduced in the penultimate episode. I think the new commander introduces something i haven’t seen from any of the founders of Gillead: Guilt. Also a wife that doesn’t fit the perfect mold. His starkly honest and rather invasive conversation with Emily over wine was both refreshing and disquieting and I liked how Emily wasn’t sure how to react to any of this strange new world.  I’m hoping this late introduction means we will get this character back next season. We could use some honesty and some levity and the dynamic between the actors and characters is already compelling.

Finally, as depressing as they are, I like those moments where June and Nick indulge in this fantastical future. If only because it’s one of the few times we see that side of June in Gillead and not just in flashbacks. I like seeing glimpses of June beyond the grief and pain and feeling like there’s fight still there. Sherry bringing up the Scrabble, her first foray in manipulating Fred, made me glad too. 

[guilfoyleatpp]

I’m so glad someone else said “whiplash.” That’s the exact word I was thinking of. Serena has these brief moments where it seems like someone has shaken her awake from her dream of being the ultimate asshole Gileadean wife...and she really sees things. And she makes some gesture that makes you (and June) think that she sees. And then she drifts back into asshole slumber.

 

I wish they had put more into Eden  I just can’t 100% buy into this Romeo and Juliet thing  I really need more motivation and explanation before I can feel what June and Nick feel at seeing her drowned.

 

I also didn’t appreciate the handwave that explained Nick’s capture. So totally random guardians that had nothing to do with why they were there happened by and took nick and his car keys. As quickly as possible. Hurrying him away, really.

And then some random neighbors found June, and not some guardians retrieving Nick’s car. Ummmm hmmmm.

 

The new Emily post (haha) is intriguing. 

 

Handmaid’s Tale...DO NOT betray me the way that Walking Dead did. 

[Umbelina]

Babies cry.  She probably missed June.  Babies can recognize a mother's smell soon after birth, and June was alone with her for quite a while then.

Serena may be many things, but she dotes on that baby.  She changes her every ten minutes, she wasn't wet.  She just fed her.  Heck, she even knew "Nicole" wanted her mother, and let June breastfeed her.

Serena has plenty of sins, there is no real need to make more up.  I'm astonished this actress and role brings out such passion.  I really enjoy all the actresses, we hit the jackpot there.  I'm even beginning to appreciate Fred, that actor plays smarmy wanna be extremely well.