Supernatural Bitterness & Unpopular Opinions: You All Suck

[DittyDotDot]

ETA: Also, despite a lifelong dislike of Paris Hilton, I genuinely enjoy Fallen Idols. (*shows myself the door*)  

 

I actually like Fallen Idols as well--for the most part anyway--I think it's a funny little case of the week. But, it does amuse me immensely that Paris Hilton not only did the gag, but from all accounts, showed up on time, knew her lines a was a complete professional. Probably amuses me far more than it has a right too. Sorry, carry on with the bitterness..

[amensisterfriend]

I guess that's a big UO of mine: I generally find even the more mediocre, funny cases of the week far more enjoyable and rewatchable than the angst-drenched, self-serious 'epic' episodes---even the ones that I know objectively are well written and acted. If SPN put out a DVD consisting of just their 'lighter' episodes throughout the series, I'd be the first to order it...despite my complaints that the humor can sometimes get a little (okay, a lot!) too meta and self-indulgent :) 

Edited February 1, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[catrox14]

My unpopular opinion of today is that I liked Bela. I mean I didn't LIKE Bela but I liked her being a messy, devious complicated female character that was just a pain in the boys ass and she was human.

[amensisterfriend]

Right there with you, catrox---only I'd go as far as to say that she was easily one of my favorite female characters of the series! 

[Mcolleague]

I really like Bela too, it makes so much sense that there would be opportunists in that universe who use the supernatural for profit. When she turned up, I was like, *smacks forehead*, of course! I really hate how they ended her story. She made a demon deal as an abused child to not be abused, and got a temporary reprieve before going to hell for an eternity of torture?!!? Wtf show?! I will be mad about this forever. :(  

 

ETA: And was that the first time they showed a child making a demon deal? Like, this makes no sense to me. If children can make that kind of decision in this universe, why do the crossroad demons even bother with adults at all? Just go find a toddler and be like, would you like this lollipop? You can have it if I can have your soul. And done. Argh! 

Edited February 1, 2015 by Mcolleague

[SueB]

My rationalization of Bela's age is the historic age of reason is 13 for the Judeo-Christian religions. That made more sense when you dies at 45. But since I presume demon deals have been around since the beginning of time, I could see how age 'rules' no longer make sense.

But I totally agree it seems completely unfair in Bela's case.

[7kstar]

I always liked and Bela and she is a good actress.  The problem was the writing especially at the end.  They made the mistake of her always winning against the guys.  But I think the writers don't know how to write women in general and when they do, do it right...it seems accidental. 

 

Plus I hate that their solutions seem to be well let's just kill them off.

 

I had zero reaction to Kevin's death, because they've played the death card way too often and that is one pet peeve that I wish they would really walk away from.

[Demented Daisy]

Have I mentioned that I'm annoyed they're moving Supernatural's time slot again?

[catrox14]

I was annoyed too, at first but then I realized that since Arrow,(which has been my favorite show for 2 seasons, but is on the ropes with me right now) is my other live viewing show, that I can scream and yell and throw things at the TV  all in one night. I can just tell people, don't bug me on Wednesday nights like I used to with LOST LOL.

Edited February 2, 2015 by catrox14

[rue721]

I found Bela boring. Aside from the Crossroads deal she made to get rid of her crummy parents, her main motivation was money, wasn't it? Who cares, everybody wants money. And then when they did the Crossroads reveal, it turned out that she was rich THAT WHOLE TIME? Wtf, show, I don't get it.

 

The death that I was bitterest about was actually that chick with the haunted kidney. I was all interested in how they were going to deal with *that* (find her a new kidney?!) but then BOOM she was dead and they had no problem to deal with after all. Ugh, that's cheating.

[DittyDotDot]

I enjoyed Bela for the most part--or maybe it was just the idea of her being out for herself rather than altruistic like Sam and Dean were--she was a good foil for the boys, IMO. I really disliked how they wrapped up her story though. I just didn't feel it was developed enough so that it all felt rushed and more like emotional manipulation in the end. I didn't see Bela as wanting the money itself, but was only looking out for herself. That's what her deal taught her, IMO.

 

Of course, this was back when the show did parallels somewhat more subtle-like--to me she was what Dean could've been with a few different choices made. Even though she was rich, she had a crappy childhood and was pulled into the life at a young age, but instead of using what she knew to help people, she used it to help only herself. Most of what she was doing in S3 was the same thing Sam and Dean was doing--trying to get out of her deal--just using different methods.

 

However, I think she had to die and that's the only outcome I could imagine working for her character. So, I don't lament her death, exactly, just wish it had been done better.

Edited February 3, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[rue721]

I didn't see Bela as wanting the money itself, but was only looking out for herself. That's what her deal taught her, IMO.

 

But since she was already fabulously wealthy, how was stealing stuff to make yet more money "looking out for herself"? I guess it was just a hobby she was really into?

 

That they gave her the most boring motivation possible (money), and then somehow made that motivation irrelevant/nonsensical for her (inherited wealth), and then tried to give her depth by being like, "but she was abused!" Blandest character development I've ever heard of. Maybe if she hadn't died, she would have had a change of heart by becoming a mother. RME.

 

Anyway, I don't really understand her as a career criminal, but they could use more lowlifes around generally. The closest thing they have to a scammer is the Trickster, which is why he's a favorite of mine (and I ignore that he's supposedly an angel of all things now, and hate that he's supposedly teaching ~lessons~ to the guys with his tricks. Can't he just be screwing with them because he's an asshole who thinks it's funny or finds it convenient for some reason?). OK, new bitterness opinion:  I want the Trickster to be even more of an asshole, and not a lesson-teaching angel. I like his current pace of appearing ~1x/season, though. 

Edited February 3, 2015 by rue721

[Aeryn13]

I think they had a character like Highlander`s Amanda in mind who was also a thief and a con artist and occasionally tricked MacLeod into participating in her cons or having to clean up the mess. And that character worked. But that`s IMO because she didn`t show up and outsmarted the leads at every turn. With Bela, the dumbing down was in such full force that there was no equality to the banter, no fun give and take to the interaction. In the ghost ship episode Dean dropped as many IQ points as recently with Charlie. And that sex dream Sam had about her? One word: random. Throwing in a sad backstory at the eleventh hour didn`t help the character. 

[catrox14]

The sex dream Sam had made no sense because really that should have been Dean's sex dream because Bela and Dean had some chemistry IMO.

[rue721]

I think they had a character like Highlander`s Amanda in mind who was also a thief and a con artist and occasionally tricked MacLeod into participating in her cons or having to clean up the mess. And that character worked. But that`s IMO because she didn`t show up and outsmarted the leads at every turn. With Bela, the dumbing down was in such full force that there was no equality to the banter, no fun give and take to the interaction.

 

The problem for me about Bela was that she actually wasn't that slimy. She just really liked to steal stuff? I don't know what her deal was, tbh. By "not actually that slimy," I mean stuff like, I thought it was weird when she actually did keep her word and give the guys $20K after they helped her out in Red Sky at Morning. I think the writers were scared to make her too unappealing by making her more of a loser or slimier or more confusing, but to me that just made her seem cardboard-y and boring. YMMV.

 

Btw, I think Metatron is SO MUCH more the con artist type in the way he lies. Where you can't believe *anything* he says because the truth is utterly meaningless to him, he really will just give whatever story he happens to like best. So at any given time, he might actually tell the truth, but might not, it's just arbitrary -- so you can't even count on whatever he says *not* being true, you can't count on anything he says at all in any way. He probably doesn't even know what the truth is tbh. Yet they still go to him for info! I don't get it.

[catrox14]

To me Bela was just a straightforward thief  who made a living "acquiring things" for paying clients. I never had the impression she was independently wealthy prior to becoming a thief.

Edited February 3, 2015 by catrox14

[rue721]

To me Bela was just a straightforward thief  who made a living "acquiring things" for paying clients. I never had the impression she was independently wealthy prior to becoming a thief.

 

I got the impression that Bela came from money, from her situation in that flashback to her crossroads deal if from nothing else. I can't get to video right now to double check, though -- could be wrong!  Of course while she's giving a sob story about her horrible parents, I'm busy thinking -- Wait! Bela, are you rich? Priorities priorities. Doubt that that's what we were supposed to be focusing on, lol.

Edited February 3, 2015 by rue721

[catrox14]

Horrible parents doesn't quite cover it. I thought it was strongly implied that her father raped her. I dunno. That doesn't mean they were wealthy though. Her school girl clothes I thought were just a uniform because that's what British school children wore AFAIK even the public schools. 

[rue721]

I think it was implied that he was raping her, too, and honestly that just irritated me because imo it was cheap writing. It felt like the writers thought, "ooooooops we need people to suddenly like this character so that it'll be sad when she dies -- let's make her a rape victim! easy fix!"

[rue721]

I don't remember the exact specifics of why I have the impression Bela came from money, so I was looking online to see if there was anything about it in any of the character bios for her. All I found that mentioned it either way was in the wiki: Abbie was born to a wealthy family in the United Kingdom around 1983.

 

Meh that's probably the best I can do for backing that up without actually re-watching anything :)

[catrox14]

Thanks for that.  I could fanwank that if Bela had been raped by her father she is probably pretty well fucked up and lead her to a life of crime... but I would rather she just be a thief because she was good at and wanted to do it.

[AwesomO4000]

The sex dream Sam had made no sense because really that should have been Dean's sex dream because Bela and Dean had some chemistry IMO.

 

It was more than that for me. I actually think it would be more "dreaming" for Sam, because he would never be able to actually seduce Bela... Bela would look down on someone like Sam. My main objection on how random it was was that Bela shot Sam. Unless Sam is somehow secretly more masochistic than we've been lead to believe, getting shot should not lead to sexy, happy thoughts concerning someone. That's just all kinds of weird and wrong, in my opinion and only  happens in bad action movies or Batman type comic book stories and doesn't have a place in this type of genre story in my opinion.

 

I'm not so sure about a sex dream for Dean starring Bela either - I would think more his Bela dream would be somehow cheating her out of a bunch of money - heh. I would think that would've given Dean the biggest happy, myself. If they wanted to have angry, hate sex after that in the dream then I can buy that, but for me, there would likely need to be a Dean winning somehow scenario first for me, and definitely not the other way around (i.e. Bela once again getting the better of Dean). Truthfully though, I can imagine Dean being just as happy if he dreamed about Bela riding away with his lottery tickets and then a big boulder landed on her car - hee. Kidding, but not entirely.

[DittyDotDot]

Yes, Bela came from money. From Time Is On My Side...
 

They were lovely people. And I killed them. And I got rich. I can't be bothered to give a damn. Just like I don't care what happens to you.

 

Although it was not specifically said that her father molested her, it was very strongly implied, with the flashbacks, that they were not lovely people.

 

 

But since she was already fabulously wealthy, how was stealing stuff to make yet more money "looking out for herself"? I guess it was just a hobby she was really into?

 

Plenty of people who have money, still want more money. To some people, there's never enough. Personally, I didn't think Bela was motivated by the money, per se, but was motivated by needing to feel like she was in control of her life and the money gave her that feeling. She'd never have to feel like that powerless little molested girl again if she made sure she'd never be dependent on anyone ever again. That's why she paid Sam and Dean after they helped her. For me, the difference between Bela and Marvatron is that Bela was mostly bluff--she actually did care, but didn't want people to think she did. Marvatron actually doesn't care about anything but himself, it's not an act for him like it was for Bela, IMO.

[SueB]

 

The sex dream Sam had made no sense because really that should have been Dean's sex dream because Bela and Dean had some chemistry IMO.

I always liked it because Sam is so quiet and very respectful of women.  And to know he (like most men his age) is having sexy-times dreams about hot women just kinda humanizes him a bit for me.  

[AwesomO4000]

I agree about that aspect of it, SueB. My "what the heck?" objection was who Sam was dreaming about: Bela... who shot him. Oh - and I forgot this part in my earlier post - and who fully intended to let him die from the curse without a second thought as long as she made her million plus.

[supposebly]

Weeeeell, he is a little kinky too. We should not judge. ;-)

[AwesomO4000]

Hee, supposebly. True. I like that about Sam actually. ; )

[catrox14]

Yeah but having sex with someone that shot you, let a curse ruin you,then stole all your lottery ticket and fucked with Baby....well that's even worse that Ruby ( not really).

 

And good points about Dean and that he'd rather have screwed her over than screw her, especially when she fucked with Baby. 

[AwesomO4000]

Yeah but having sex with someone that shot you, let a curse ruin you,then stole all your lottery ticket and fucked with Baby....well that's even worse that Ruby ( not really).

 

Yeah. I was mostly kidding above. Sam's a little kinky, but not that kinky I would think. I couldn't imagine him getting screwed over - and not in the good way - being a turn on for him. Even by that time in the series, I think Sam pretty much had enough of being screwed over by supernatural entities. I would think getting screwed over by Bela too should piss him off more than anything. So yeah that = me not thinking that scene made much sense. At all.

 

And good points about Dean and that he'd rather have screwed her over than screw her, especially when she fucked with Baby.

 

Oh yeah, that's right. I almost forgot about that. Good point. Yeah, that would've put her on Dean's shit list right there. Dean's not gonna forget that so easily. Baby is his first love.

[Pete Martell]

The idea of the scene was mostly, "Hey, let's do what people wouldn't expect" (although they'd already established that Sam certainly enjoyed sex, so I'm not sure what they were fully going for), and I could buy that he might dream about her that way as she was attractive and you never know what your unconscious mind may do. I just thought it was annoying and OOC that he was so flustered when she walked into the hotel room right after. They were going for comedy and to make it easier for her to steal the Colt, but it just didn't work for me. 

[Lindsay1107]

I don't know if it's an unpopular opinion or not, but I'm really enjoying this season.  The guys aren't fighting/split-up/being mean to each other.  They seem to genuinely like each other and are acting like they did in the first seasons.  I really haven't enjoyed a full season this much in a very long time.  Up until now I'd mostly just watched out of habit, and missed a few episodes cause I just didn't care**.  But now I look forward to the new episodes.

 

I hated S7 for the unnecessary Amy friction and the leviathans (although on re-watch they weren't as bad as when I was watching live), hated S8 for the fact that SAM DIDN'T LOOK FOR DEAN!!!, Benny and Amelia (both of them could have diaf and I wouldn't have minded one bit), and the crap trials that didn't go anywhere (like seriously what was the point?!) and S9 with the "I didn't want you to save me so now we can't be brothers anymore"... since DYBIM I've thoroughly liked the episodes.

 

I want Sam and Dean Winchester together as a team "Saving People, Hunting Things".  :) Otherwise there is no point for me to watch.

 

**I will tell you that the only episode I have never seen is "Bloodlines".  Cause really, No real Sam & Dean = me not watching.

[supposebly]

 

I was mostly kidding above. Sam's a little kinky, but not that kinky I would think.

I don't have a problem with the dream, I mean, who can control what they dream about.

I do have a problem with the reaction afterwards. While cute, it was way too embarrassed, I think. But then I tend to forget how young Sam is in season 3.

 

Hee, supposebly. True. I like that about Sam actually. ; )

Yeah, me too. It's one of his few consistent character traits. And now, it's my time to be a bit embarrassed.....

[SueB]

Wait...Sam's kinky?  Is this because of the demon/werewolf/whatever thing or am I missing something?

[catrox14]

I never had the impression Sam was kinky. He is usually the top in all his sex scenes. He likes rough and tumble sex but not you know all BDSM and what have you. He seems to like having sex in public and up against walls. But to me that isn't really a kinky thing.

[DittyDotDot]

Well, he did like to suck Ruby's blood....

[catrox14]

Well, he did like to suck Ruby's blood....

 

Yeah but I don't think that was sexually kinky. The act of sucking the blood itself is just plain gross and he did for the power not for sexual arousal. Ruby's used sex to get him to do it. 

[supposebly]

Oh god, what did I start? Degrees of kinkiness....

 

A little kinky: like the public sex and the werewolf sex. Although at the time, they thought she was fine.

 

And way too kinky: the demon sex with Ruby.

 

Ok, let's put it this way. It's a lot kinkier that what we've seen from Dean.

 

Ok, I'll be in my bunk now....

[SueB]

Ok, let's put it this way. It's a lot kinkier that what we've seen from Dean

Dean, 'I'll try anything once.' Winchester? Who has canonically been with twins and triplets? And was the King of Hell involved with the triplets? *Don't answer that, I don't ship Dean/Crowley *

[catrox14]

Dean, 'I'll try anything once.' Winchester? Who has canonically been with twins and triplets? And was the King of Hell involved with the triplets? *Don't answer that, I don't ship Dean/Crowley *

 

And who has sex in the back of his car with an angel and then had sex with humans as a demon even when they didn't know he was a demon...eep.  Who watches porn all the time and I'm willing to bet there is some whips and chains porn he's availed himself of....

 

and gods knows what the hell he did in...Hell.  I'm just sayin' that I'm not sure Sam would 100% win the "Who Has Kinkier Sex " award between him and Dean. 

Edited February 5, 2015 by catrox14

[SueB]

Not just video porn. Cartoon porn AKA 'Anime, and it's an art form.' 

[supposebly]

 

Dean, 'I'll try anything once.' Winchester? Who has canonically been with twins and triplets? And was the King of Hell involved with the triplets? *Don't answer that, I don't ship Dean/Crowley *

 

Well, let's put it this way. On screen, Sam looks a lot kinkier to me than Dean. And I don't want to think about Dean and Crowley.........nonononono.

 

Although I'm sure that fanfic has been written too. The degrees of denial that show requires....

 

Isn't this the bitterness thread?

 

Ok, I am bitter about the lack of kinky sex lately.

Edited February 5, 2015 by supposebly

[Pete Martell]

The show used to have Sam with wilder sex scenes (biting and so on - even before Ruby) while Dean had more tender love scenes.

 

I'm not sure that means kinky, but that's up to each viewer.

[catrox14]

Well, let's put it this way. On screen, Sam looks a lot kinkier to me than Dean. And I don't want to think about Dean and Crowley.........nonononono.

 

Although I'm sure that fanfic has been written too. The degrees of denial that show requires....

 

Isn't this the bitterness thread?

 

Ok, I am bitter about the lack of kinky sex lately.

 

I'm bitter about the lack of shirtlessness lately.

You know probably had the kinkiest sex of all, don't you?  Garth.  You know that guy has done some weird shit because he just rolls along.  Probably what keeps him so calm. 

 

 

I'm so sorry

Edited February 5, 2015 by catrox14

[supposebly]

 

I'm so sorry

 

You should be....;-)

[Iguana]

I can't believe that I'm weighing in on the relative kinkiness of Sam and Dean... But I find it irresistible.  This show, and this board, does something to my head.

 

Off the top of my head, we've seen Sam (with soul, as I can't count soulless Sam's sexcapades) in only 3 actual sex scenes:  Madison the werewolf in Heart, Ruby in I Know What You Did Last Summer and the medical examiner in Sex and Violence.  All of them could be considered somewhat unconventional, as he started Madison off up against a wall and continued into a sunrise to sunset marathon sex session; Ruby was a demon in a meatsuit and it was not exactly the missionary position; and the medical examiner was on the desk in her office.  He seemed to get a little bite-y with all three, but not in a violent, draw blood way.  We didn't see any sex with his first long term partner, Jessica, and the vet only got some rather passionless kissing and bed cuddles.  Regular references have been made by Dean about Sam's monkish ways, that generally go undisputed by Sam.  Conclusion:  no demonstrated kinkiness.

 

Again off the top of my head we've seen 3 sex scenes with real, not altered/possessed/demon Dean:  Cassie in Route 666, Anna in Heaven and Hell, and the Amazon in Slice Girls.  The scene with Cassie was as conventional as it gets, as was Anna, save for it being in the backseat, and in both, Dean appeared to be tender and considerate.  (I really wish that I could come up with a description that didn't make me sound like a Harlequin romance writer for Dean's behaviour her, but I can't.  Dammit.)  The Amazon scene played up the sexual violence by cross cutting it with the killing, but the actual sex appeared to be a straightforward one night stand.  The only scene with Dean's only long term partner, Lisa, was actually a dream, so I don't count it here, but even if I did, it was as conventional  (and tender, dammit,) as Cassie.  However, there are numerous times where we see the beginning or aftermath of one of Dean's encounters, such as the bar wench in Monster Movie, the former porn star/born again virgin, whatever (or whomever) he was doing at the motel in Magnificent Seven, and a whole lot of episodes in season one.  There are too many references to Dean's off screen sexcapades for me to list, but at least some of them, ("Bendy" Lisa and the best weekend of her life, the Doublement Twins, handcuffs) indicate that Dean is, shall we say, does not have a puritanical view of sex and is more than willing to experiment with an interested partner.  Verdict:  zero kinkiness shown, at least some referenced. 

 

Conclusion:  Based on what the show has given us, Sam is probably not as kinky as Dean, although Dean may just be more experimental and open than truly kinky.  However, the show has given us very limited data, as even including the sex scenes where Sam or Dean are altered in some way, it still averages out to less than one per season. 

 

Bitter Opinion:  I am bitter that I am so obsessed with Supernatural that I was compelled to go through the above analysis.  More importantly, I am bitter that there is such a small number of scenes to analyze, and the show is so stingy about showing skin.  I am shallow, and demand they provide more of the pretty, dammit.

Edited February 5, 2015 by Iguana

[catrox14]

Well, Iguana, I think you have made a compelling case and I agree with your conclusions and you bitter opinion. LOL well played.

[AwesomO4000]

and gods knows what the hell he did in...Hell.

 

Yeah, we have no details there. We do have heavily implied details from Sam, but since that was also more than heavily implied to not be consensual, that doesn't count. * (However I smiled at Sam's complaining where was the Sastiel in "Fan Fiction", and would personally have no problem with that myself. I lean more Sastiel than Destiel anyway. They do have a lot in common - including Dean - after all.)  

 

* and that was only in my head because on rewatch of the latest episode, Dean got uncomfortably close to making an unintentionally sensitive subject joke about that for Sam, who didn't realize until it had happened that he was setting himself up for such. Ouch for Sam - I cringed a little for him. I'm thinking Dean doesn't quite know about that for sure, although he probably guesses. Bad Dean - don't go there joke-wise. Not likely funny for Sam.

 

The act of sucking the blood itself is just plain gross and he did for the power not for sexual arousal. Ruby's used sex to get him to do it.

 

Despite being gross, there seemed to be sexuality implied with the blood-drinking with Ruby. There was often lack of clothing and the strong implication that sex was going to occur afterwards - it often occurred in bed and if I'm remembering correctly there was kissing (and if so that would make it more than just the "business transaction" of Sam drinking her blood). I'm thinking one or both of them got "in the mood" due to the power-rush the blood provided. That's the way the scenes seemed to play to me... and if so, that might be a bit kinky-adjacent towards some kind of power/dominance thing. However it didn't appear that not-on-demon-blood Sam acted that way, so it might have been an addicted to blood only implied thing.

 

Then again there has been a bit of wall (and door) banging and mutual biting. Maybe not kinky per se, but kinky adjacent enough for me. ; )

 

Who watches porn all the time and I'm willing to bet there is some whips and chains porn he's availed himself of....

Not just video porn. Cartoon porn AKA 'Anime, and it's an art form.'

 

With the anime - although I think what Dean watches is technically hentai * - I'd be more wondering about tentacles than whips and chains (and don't ask. I only know second-hand, but ::shudders::) If yes to the tentacle hentai, than I'd agree Dean might be the kinkier one.

 

* I don't want to think of what Dean watches as anime: my tween and young teen nieces watch anime - nuff said.

 

You know probably had the kinkiest sex of all, don't you?  Garth.  You know that guy has done some weird shit because he just rolls along.  Probably what keeps him so calm.

 

I may or may not have read a comedic fanfic where Garth made a sock-puppet girlfriend for Mr. Fizzles and Dean heard Garth acting out an "encounter" for Mr Fizzles and his "date," and then being concerned, opened the door. Dean may have cost Mr. Fizzles a girlfriend. I may or may not have been completely amused. (It sounds much dirtier than it was. It was however, extremely funny... and maybe just a little disturbing, mostly because I could entirely imagine Garth doing that.)

 

Now I'm sorry. (Maybe.)

 

More importantly, I am bitter that there is such a small number of scenes to analyze, and the show is so stingy about showing skin.  I am shallow, and demand they provide more of the pretty, dammit.

 

Me too. I miss bitey Sam. I don't think we've seen him with anyone really - not counting Amelia - since what season 4? We at least got to see some Dean action in season 7, but yeah not enough there either. Well, there was sort of soulless Sam, but those were pretty choppy, blink and you'll miss it, kinda sleazy, and not really Sam.

[Aeryn13]

To be fair, I don`t think we`ve ever seen a kinky sex scene on Supernatural. Or hell, on any CW show. Even Vampire Diaries or Originals just uses the vamp speed for some visual tricks and throwing furniture around/ripping clothing. The kinkiest sex I probably ever saw was on True Blood. He just crawled out of his own grave, Sookie, for God`s sakes. Ew. Also hee.

 

 

[AwesomO4000]

True. Buffy doesn't count since it was technically the WB and then UPN. Otherwise Spike's masochistic tendancies might count. I loved Buffy's "Well, I do beat him up a lot. For Spike, that's like third base." It helps that that was the episode that introduced the Buffybot - and Spike/Buffybot in itself might be considered somewhat kinky, I guess - because I ended up loving Buffybot as a character. And when they did get together, Buffy continued that physical aspect of their relationship, since their "activities" generally included at least broken furniture if not entire ruined buildings along with bruises and other injuries. And both seemed to enjoy that aspect of their relationship. For me, it's too bad that in the end  that sort of got thrown into the "unhealthy" category along with everything else (and there was a fair amount of unhealthy), because if they both enjoyed the "rough and tumble" in their sexual relations, it shouldn't have been hinted at as "unhelathy." Just my opinion there.

[rue721]

Brought over from the thread for Party of One:  Unpopular TV Opinions (in the Everything TV section of the site), since it was sorta devolving into a conversation about SPN specifically:

 

I agree with this, for fandom is Legion, and as Legion most of us can get along just fine, respect one another's opinions and even - GASP! - agree with one another to a point, even if we don't fully like a certain character's actions. But to me, it seems as if there are way more cases where its the total opposite. Take Supernatural. I went back and re-watched the pilot on Netflix because I caught a couple of episodes on TNT, and someone told me how Sam looks down on his brother, etc. So I was prepared for Sam to be an utter jackass towards Dean, and then.....well, that's not what happened. I mean, you can't judge a show by its pilot because the writers haven't figured out who the characters are yet, firmed things up WRT plot and such. But while I think that Sam's petulance is not a good look, I also think that Dean is not blameless for how their relationship is shaking out. And I'm more inclined to defend Sam just because Dean so often comes off like a jerk to me. Is that a UO?

 

My UO(s) with regard to Supernatural is that imo Sam and Dean have an overall great relationship. I don't understand where the idea that either Sam or Dean dislike or disrespect each other, or that the writers/TPTB dislike or disrespect either character, even comes from. Also, I think that it's perfectly fine that their closest relationship as adults is with each other. Maybe a wife, 2.5 kids, and mortgage on a house in the suburbs isn't in the cards for either of them -- *that's fine.* It frustrates me when people are like, "[sam or Dean] has to go build his own life!" They each *have* built their lives, these are the lives they've built. And nothing's wrong with those lives, I don't think. Some fans act like they're these pitiable spinsters or suffering from eternal arrested development for their family/living situation and it's really off-putting to me. /rant

Edited February 7, 2015 by rue721