Iris West

[peachmangosteen]

Just like how no one is flooding twitter with outrage over Eddie's minuscule screen time. 

 

If my twitter was public I would totally flood twitter with outrage over Eddie's minuscule screentime!

 

I agree with you though, I think Iris seemed like she was supposed to be a co-lead, so I expected a lot more out of her story. But to FurryFury's point, maybe she really never was intended to be a co-lead and was more of a female lead in a story about Barry. Although even in that case I still say the writing for is really bad and disappointing.

Edited February 10, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[CabotCove]

Right and if it continued that way for all the episodes afterwards (and the ones before) then you'd have a real reason..but for there to be just one ep where Caitlin had more focus...I don't think worrying or jumping to conclusions is needed now.

 

Agree. Other characters need their centric episodes too, Iris time will come. Besides, I think that the first half did have a decent amount of Iris

 

 

The point is you and some other fans of Iris are just invested in her comic book character and you expected her to have more prominence on the show. I'm not saying you are wrong to do that, you probably aren't, but she isn't a second lead, like Abby on Sleeping Hollow, she's just another secondary character here, just one whose actress is second billed and whose role is that of a love interest.

 

Iris is the Flash's female lead/leading lady, there is no doubt in my mind about that, thats different from being a co lead I think the way Abbie (sleepy hollow) is. Yes, in most shows love interests of a main character tend to get the second leading status regardless of  how much screentime and focus they get, thats the way it has been done mostly. Though in some few shows its different and changing a lot recently.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Conell

[wingster55]

I can FF her scenes and it wouldnt' change the show, which makes me start to count her as unimportant until they decide she is.

 

It's not (nor should it be) all about the plot. Character moments, which is what Iris has gotten, matters.

Plus that's a over-exaggeration. Numerous eps have Iris in a substantial role that would leave a hole in the episode.

[TwistedandBored]

I really don't think female lead title thing matters to writers anymore and I don't care who the lead is. I watch plenty of shows where I can't stand the leads and like the supporting casts more. However, I like Iris and I hope the writers develop her character more in the future. Simple. 

[phoenics]

Well if tonight's episode is any indication, Iris is getting sidelined completely. We aren't getting her pov at all - just nothing.

I'm so disappointed.

I just LOVE being baited and switched! NOT.

I think that's a wrap for me... I don't care what's coming up in spoilers - the leak we got a month ago now seems calculated and I don't have a good feeling about where this show is going.

[wingster55]

I think the opposite..I'm certain they're building towards something with them. 

[phoenics]

I think the opposite..I'm certain they're building towards something with them.

Unfortunately with the way they are writing it, half the fandom will hate Iris by then. Iris as a character won't get the same "chance" with the audience that other characters might - she's not going to be given the benefit of the doubt. Or - put another way - I don't think the writers understand how fandoms work - they probably don't realize how poorly they're writing Iris and think people WILL give her the benefit of the doubt - until it all blows up in their faces (and ours).

As an Iris fan, this just really upsets me.

[wingster55]

Why would they hate Iris? It may not have been her place to tell Linda of Barry's confession..but she was asked and it's better that Linda knows.

[Enero]

I agree phoenics. Though her reaction to Barry and Linda shouldn't be what defines her character people will dislike her for it nonetheless.

I'm also disappointed with the continuous lack of investment in her career. Wasn't she just writing about the "burning man" on her blog a few weeks about? However tonight she couldn't have cared less about him. No curiosity whatsoever about these individuals that keep popping up that are similar to the Flash. Individuals she was curious about earlier this season.

As much as I enjoyed the Cisco/Joe scenes, it continues to be disappointing how everyone can get bonding scenes with her father except her.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Enero

[Skyline]

Lots of Iris hate on Twitter right now. I haven't checked FB, but I'm sure they're hating too.

[phoenics]

I just don't understand - okay no I probably do even if I don't want the reason to be what I'm thinking.

CP is a great actress - she's knocked everything out of the park this season, so WHY just shove her to the side like this? If the writers think they are building anticipation for WestAllen by not showing us what Iris is thinking or trying to SURPRISE! us, they are failing! Instead they are treating Iris like freaking wallpaper. She's gotten about 5 minutes of screen time each in the last 2 episodes. That's a travesty.

[phoenics]

Why would they hate Iris? It may not have been her place to tell Linda of Barry's confession..but she was asked and it's better that Linda knows.

 

See below...

 

Lots of Iris hate on Twitter right now. I haven't checked FB, but I'm sure they're hating too.

A lot of fans predicted this would happen - all of the Iris hate. I don't understand the writers not giving Iris a PoV...

Plus - Iris found out Barry was in love with her (though earlier he said he wasn't) and then he told her he wanted her to be happy (instantly after that and never let her express anything) and now he's 1) dating someone and 2) declaring that he doesn't feel that way about Iris anymore... even though he claimed to have been in love with her his whole life.

Clearly he's in denial - but I could totally see how/why Iris might be confused and then also be afraid to reveal any feelings she might have - especially with how fast Barry took his feelings back.

It's messy.

But a lot of the fandom hate on Iris right now could be alleviated if they let us in on her innermost thoughts - but the writers are stupidly refusing to do that.

I'm sad to see a character I like treated like this.

[Oscirus]

Why is Iris getting hate?

Two reasons:

1. She's coming off as a selfish cold manipulative witch who sabotaged her best friend's relationship for no reason then because he's not paying attention to her.

2. She's being passive aggressive about it. Which is a fairly easy way to piss people off.

To top it all off, instead of having her get over herself and fix the mess that she caused, the writers let Barry fixed. It's pretty easy to see why she's getting hate tonight.

[phoenics]

Why is Iris getting hate?

Two reasons:

1. She's coming off as a selfish cold manipulative witch who sabotaged her best friend's relationship for no reason then because he's not paying attention to her.

2. She's being passive aggressive about it. Which is a fairly easy way to piss people off.

To top it all off, instead of having her get over herself and fix the mess that she caused, the writers let Barry fixed. It's pretty easy to see why she's getting hate tonight.

Iris did offer to try to fix it and Barry wouldn't let her - not sure why you're hating on her for that? Because she did ask if she could talk to Linda again.

I also think that Iris is in denial about having feelings for Barry - which is why she's coming off the way she is.

And the writers refusing to write a PoV for Iris doesn't help - we don't get to see her perspective at all. The only perspective we get to see is Barry's and Linda's really. It's just not good.

But thanks SO MUCH for illustrating the kind of fandom hate Iris is getting right now - since there are some fans who thought Iris would get the benefit of the doubt (I didn't - but I have been in fandoms before and seen similar reactions like this to half of a ship).

I'm thinking of an infamous Scandal monologue right now.

[bluebonnet]

There's also her career stuff.  They write her as super motivated to be a great journalist and then turn around and have her express zero interest in some fairly major stories.  

[phoenics]

I just don't think TPTB care about this character anymore - I think they've (baited) and switched on us... and they are hoping we won't notice. That - or they plan to get back to it, naively misunderstanding how poorly they are writing Iris right now and that characters written without a PoV (especially WoC characters) do not and never will get the benefit of the doubt by fandom most of the time. Or the writers will have to expend a LOT of effort giving her a PoV in order to shore up the damage to the character and stem the hate coming from part of the fandom.

[Tangerine]

My main frustration with Iris is again, the lack of PoV we get from her. She's such a thin character right now that's only existing to serve plot, she doesn't feel like an actual character right now. I understand that feelings for someone can change over time, but we've seen nothing from Iris' viewpoint so far that she's coming across as selfish and manipulative.

 

It seems like they only see Iris as a love interest for Barry right now and not looking to try to build her up as a character that can stand on her own. The one thing that's keeping her from turning into the dreadfulness that is Laurel is the fact that CP is a much better actress when it comes to projecting warmth and sympathy, despite the lack of material she's been given.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Tangerine

[venusnv80]

phoenics, people wanted to hate on that monologue on Scandal--but it was truth. SSDD. Manipulative is dressing up as someone else and befriending someone under false pretenses and talking to them like a friend and allowing them to pour out their heart to you about certain matters..that's manipulative. 

Edited February 11, 2015 by venusnv80

[Oscirus]

Iris did offer to try to fix it and Barry wouldn't let her - not sure why you're hating on her for that? Because she did ask if she could talk to Linda again.

 

I think if anything, my time in this forum has proven that I'm a big time Iris defender. I'm  pretty much giving an unbiased view on why she's getting hate.

 

As for her offer, who in their right mind would take her up on said offer after what she just did?  And just because he said no shouldn't stop her from trying anyway.

[venusnv80]

What did she do? Tell Linda that he was getting over someone and to give him time? She didn't have to say the last part at all, she was trying to help. It's not like she walked up to Linda and volunteered all that information, Linda came to her. 

[Lord Kira]

People disliking Iris, especially during this episode, makes perfect sense to me. The writers are doing the same thing with her that they did with Laurel in Arrow season 1: not showing her doing her job, existing just to be a love interest, denying romantic interest in the lead while they are with someone else and getting jealous when that person tries to move on, lacking relevance to the A-Plot, etc.

 

Some people think that letting Iris in on Barry's secret would help. I don't think I want that. Letting Laurel into the Arrow Cave ruined one of my favorite aspects of the show. I don't want Iris showing up at Star Labs and getting in the way of Barry/Caitlyn/Cisco/Wells interaction.

 

Candice Patton is a billion times better than Katie Cassidy. The writers need to do something with her. I'm just not sure what.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Lord Kira

[Oscirus]

What they're doing to Iris is worse then Laurel in season one. For all her faults, Laurel stayed on her own relationship and was undone by Oliver at every turn. I guess technically until tonight,  the same thing could be said about Iris, but not anymore. Also, it's really starting to seem that Iris is on a completely different show. Could she have been anymore forced in there tonight?

[phoenics]

They could write her like they do in the comics - she had a very close working relationship with Barry Allen - they worked on cases together... THAT was the essence of their connection that led to "more".

Oh well.

Also - are we just giving Barry a pass for his actions? Does it help that we get to see his PoV? I wish the writers would give Iris her own PoV - I'm just flabbergasted at why they don't.

They pimped the hell out of CP's casting - and to just toss her to the side like this is ... typical, but so wrong.

[Shanna]

There's also her career stuff. They write her as super motivated to be a great journalist and then turn around and have her express zero interest in some fairly major stories.

This is so stupid and poorly, inconsistently written. She took a picture of the flash just last episode! What happened with that?

I don't the writers are trying to marginalize her, they are just not good at writing this stuff. Ugh. Really irritated we are going with all the most cliched, irritating storylines possible! Oh, he likes somebody else, maybe I like him? Despite the fact that i just moved In with another guy. So annoying.

Also, iris could not fix his relationship, this isn't high school. only Barry could do that. He was right to shut her down.

As far as giving Barry a pass, I don't know that he did anything wrong aside from skipping out on his date and being annoyed at iris.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Shanna

[venusnv80]

Exactly, she already has a outline for her character--why is it not being used?

 

I have no idea why Barry is being excused for his actions. However, that usually happens anyway...the females always get it worst and the black females are the lowest on the totem pole. 

[phoenics]

This is so stupid and poorly, inconsistently written. She took a picture of the flash just last episode! What happened with that?

I don't the writers are trying to marginalize her, they are just not good at writing this stuff. Ugh. Really irritated we are going with all the most cliched, irritating storylines possible! Oh, he likes somebody else, maybe I like him? Despite the fact that i just moved In with another guy. So annoying.

Also, iris could not fix his relationship, this isn't high school. only Barry could do that. He was right to shut her down.

Well, the thing is if you don't actually write for a character, then you are, in fact, marginalizing that character. That's what's happening with Iris - she's not even in the promos... at all... it's just... not good.

[Lord Kira]

I think a very big problem may something else entirely. Something that all comic book shows and movies have to deal with. The "destined pairing." Clark/Lana and Clark/Lois, Oliver/Laurel, Peter/MJ, Thor/Jane, and now Barry/Iris.

 

Because those are all canon relationships in comics, the writers are forced to give them a shot in tv/movies. Unfortunately, if the wrtiting, acting, and chemistry isn't there.... the audience isn't going to buy it. People don't like being told who to ship. Especially when it happens in the very first episode of a tv show.

 

Instead, the audience will latch on to other alternatives. Clark/Chloe, Oliver/Felicity, Barry/Caitlyn or Barry/Linda, Thor/Sif, etc.

 

They shouldn't have forced the Barry/Iris thing so hard and let the character breathe on her own.

Exactly, she already has a outline for her character--why is it not being used?

 

I have no idea why Barry is being excused for his actions. However, that usually happens anyway...the females always get it worst and the black females are the lowest on the totem pole. 

 

Her race and gender has nothing to do with it. People are more forgiving of Barry because we spend 30 minutes an episode with him every week. Compared to Iris getting about 4 minutes of screentime if she's lucky. We had plenty of time to get to know Barry and root for him. Not so much with Iris. 

Edited February 11, 2015 by Lord Kira

[venusnv80]

If I tune into Superman, I know that he is going to be with Lois Lane. That's a given. I'm not going to latch on to another ship just because I want to rebel, I will already know that the romance is secondary pretty much and the action is primary. It should have been that way with The Flash, but no they want to play this CW usual mess with triangles and of course, the marginalization of the black female character. Like I said, SSDD. Some people were going to latch onto other ships and any ship just because people don't like to see black females with male characters on any of these shows. It's the same story, it doesn't change and the arguments don't change either.

 

I do believe that Iris should have her own storyline and we should know more about HER as well. 

Edited February 11, 2015 by venusnv80

[Shanna]

I think a very big problem may something else entirely. Something that all comic book shows and movies have to deal with. The "destined pairing." Clark/Lana and Clark/Lois, Oliver/Laurel, Peter/MJ, Thor/Jane, and now Barry/Iris.

Because those are all canon relationships in comics, the writers are forced to give them a shot in tv/movies. Unfortunately, if the wrtiting, acting, and chemistry isn't there.... the audience isn't going to buy it. People don't like being told who to ship. Especially when it happens in the very first episode of a tv show.

Instead, the audience will latch on to other alternatives. Clark/Chloe, Oliver/Felicity, Barry/Caitlyn or Barry/Linda, Thor/Sif, etc.

They shouldn't have forced the Barry/Iris thing so hard and let the character breathe on her own.

Her race and gender has nothing to do with it. People are more forgiving of Barry because we spend 30 minutes an episode with him every week. Compared to Iris getting about 4 minutes of screentime if she's lucky. We had plenty of time to get to know Barry and root for him. Not so much with Iris.

Agree with most of this. I don't think this is some grand conspiracy, and I certainly don't think it had anything to do with race, at least for the audience. just hack writing and the curse of 'canon'.

Despite what comic book fans may think, flash and iris don't feel like Lois and Clark to the wider world. The movies and tv shows for superman have been much more popular and widely know. I never heard of iris before this show.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Shanna

[phoenics]

I think a very big problem may something else entirely. Something that all comic book shows and movies have to deal with. The "destined pairing." Clark/Lana and Clark/Lois, Oliver/Laurel, Peter/MJ, Thor/Jane, and now Barry/Iris.

 

Because those are all canon relationships in comics, the writers are forced to give them a shot in tv/movies. Unfortunately, if the wrtiting, acting, and chemistry isn't there.... the audience isn't going to buy it. People don't like being told who to ship. Especially when it happens in the very first episode of a tv show.

 

Instead, the audience will latch on to other alternatives. Clark/Chloe, Oliver/Felicity, Barry/Caitlyn or Barry/Linda, Thor/Sif, etc.

 

They shouldn't have forced the Barry/Iris thing so hard and let the character breathe on her own.

I could list out plenty of examples where we are told exactly who to ship and those ships are hugely popular - Max/Liz on Roswell for one... Fitz/Olivia, Lois/Clark from Lois & Clark, etc.. this happens routinely in shows where the broadcast who the "love story" couple is... there may be obstacles, but you're meant to ship them.

That's not the reason behind a lot of the hate directed at Iris and then by extension WestAllen.

Also - I disagree that the "chemistry isn't there" - it most certainly is. I get that chemistry is subjective, but Iris having chemistry with The Flash is totally there - but they are intentionally playing that down with Barry/Iris.

I don't like how they are writing Iris/Barry right now and hate how they've marginalized Iris - but the "no chemistry!" claims make no sense to me.

[venusnv80]

Well CW has a track record concerning their black female characters and Iris is no different than all the others, so I'm going to follow their pattern. 

Edited February 11, 2015 by venusnv80

[Shanna]

Yeah they have great chemistry, sibling, BFF chemistry at least. I don't see romantic anything yet personally.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Shanna

[phoenics]

Oh yes, you've made that clear Shanna - you like Caitlin and Snowbarry, right?

I guess I'm the opposite. I got goosebumps in The Flash's/Iris' rooftop scene and the looks Barry gives (gave) Iris when she wasn't looking were hot... so for me - that's chemistry.

I find DP very awkward and not the best actress (she is kinda jerky in her movements and has difficulty emoting without looking like she's about to have a seizure) so I've found it hard to see any chemistry with Barry. I barely saw any with Ronnie - more from him than her...

I suppose it's all about perspective.

Well CW has a track record concerning their black female characters and Iris is no different than all the others, so I'm going to follow their pattern.

It feels like they've done worse with Iris sadly. I'm actually shocked.

Especially since to do this story, they had to kind of make Barry OOC. That "nice guy" mess we've been seeing from him really bothers me. In common vernacular, we call "nice guys" like that "b!tch@ss".

[Sakura12]

Why is Iris getting hate?

Two reasons:

1. She's coming off as a selfish cold manipulative witch who sabotaged her best friend's relationship for no reason then because he's not paying attention to her.

 

That's a little harsh. I don't think Iris was purposely manipulating the situation. She was a little jealous and let that get the best of her. She didn't need to share that whole story with Linda. She also didn't know that Linda can read people really well. I don't hate Iris, I just hate what they are doing with her character. 

 

I know Barry/Iris are a thing in the comics, but this isn't the comics, they can't just depend on that. They can't just write Iris as Barry's eventual love interest. They need to make Iris her own character, the love interest part should be second to that. If they want to make her this sudden great reporter show her focusing on her new career, not focusing on Barry's love life. 

Edited February 11, 2015 by Sakura12

[Lord Kira]

I could list out plenty of examples where we are told exactly who to ship and those ships are hugely popular - Max/Liz on Roswell for one... Fitz/Olivia, Lois/Clark from Lois & Clark, etc.. this happens routinely in shows where the broadcast who the "love story" couple is... there may be obstacles, but you're meant to ship them.

That's not the reason behind a lot of the hate directed at Iris and then by extension WestAllen.

Also - I disagree that the "chemistry isn't there" - it most certainly is. I get that chemistry is subjective, but Iris having chemistry with The Flash is totally there - but they are intentionally playing that down with Barry/Iris.

I don't like how they are writing Iris/Barry right now and hate how they've marginalized Iris - but the "no chemistry!" claims make no sense to me.

I wasn't singling Barry/Iris out with that chemistry line. I was just broadly covering the pairings I listed and the reasons why they aren't all widely loved in the fandoms. 

 

As for Lois & Clark, I never watched that show. (I never saw any of the shows you listed.) I was referring to Smallville when I named that pairing. Maybe Lois & Clark and the shows you listed did it right. If so, good for them.

 

Genre fans are far pickier about this stuff than fans of other genres. Being in the age of social media only makes the audiences' voices louder. It was probably far easier back then to make a show without millions of screaming fans hounding your every move. lol

Edited February 11, 2015 by Lord Kira

[Shanna]

Oh yes, you've made that clear Shanna - you like Caitlin and Snowbarry, right?.

Not especially. ( i line Caitlin, but I also like iris. I can't say I'm shipping anybody yet although a little bit Linda Barry now). I think you are taking this way more personally than I am though.

Opinions! They differ. How bout that?

Sakura, I don't think iris meant to be manipulative, but I did think she just kept talking and was massively oversharing! And I think Barry's points were mostly valid, she has a boyfriend, she should be helping him not shutting it down. I did think he misunderstood because Linda intuited that it was iris, iris didn't tell her. But she did tell Linda a lot more than she should have.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Shanna

[phoenics]

Not especially. I think you are taking this way more personally than I am though.

Opinions! They differ. How bout that?

I tend to identify with black female characters given that I rarely see them onscreen - so when I see them marginalized (like I am in real life sometimes!), it's hard not to take that personally. Iris is beginning to feel like a token... being seen, but not "heard" in any meaningful way - just there to fulfill some kind of quota, but not there to actually be a REAL character.

That's a common trope that black women characters have been in for some time. Please excuse me for being disappointed that we haven't progressed past that like I thought we would when CP was cast. It felt like with the success of shows like Scandal, etc.. that we had broken free of those "invisible black woman tropes".

But nope.

My thoughts on this probably belong in the race in tv thread (plus I'm getting very depressed), so I'll just end my monologue here.

[wayne67]

I could list out plenty of examples where we are told exactly who to ship and those ships are hugely popular - Max/Liz on Roswell for one... Fitz/Olivia, Lois/Clark from Lois & Clark, etc.. this happens routinely in shows where the broadcast who the "love story" couple is... there may be obstacles, but you're meant to ship them.

That's not the reason behind a lot of the hate directed at Iris and then by extension WestAllen.

Also - I disagree that the "chemistry isn't there" - it most certainly is. I get that chemistry is subjective, but Iris having chemistry with The Flash is totally there - but they are intentionally playing that down with Barry/Iris.

I don't like how they are writing Iris/Barry right now and hate how they've marginalized Iris - but the "no chemistry!" claims make no sense to me.

I hated all those pairing for various reasons and not all of it had to do with them being broadcast at the early stages but usually because they weren't given enough time to breathe before they started. The worst offender was Clark and Lois pairing in the tv show version with Dean Cain simply because Lois came off as only liking Clark when she discovered he was Superman and not because she actually liked Clark.

I don't for the record ship anyone on this show with anyone.

I especially don't ship Barry and Iris because of the whole BFF foster siblings relationship mentioned but then quickly ignored afterwards. It just comes across as weird and creepy and all sorts of wrong. Throw in 13 episodes where one of the characters still has no particular depth and I'm not invested at all in their 'destined relationship'. It all comes off as a snore, though I will grant that the Flash Iris rooftop scene had potential but only because Barry was being a different person at the time and I find that hard to ship long term.

Edited February 11, 2015 by wayne67

[Carrie Ann]

What they did with Iris tonight was just awful. Had it been one episode in the midst of others that were good for Iris, it wouldn't elicit much more than an eyeroll and a shrug from me. But instead, they've basically tanked this character since the midseason finale, and that is really concerning for the rest of the season/series.

 

I just truly don't understand how this group of writers has learned nothing from their brother show, and how they continue to make the same mistakes in both places. That's a bigger discussion, and one that belongs in the Relationships thread probably, so I'll stick to Iris here.

 

She absolutely should have been on this Firestorm story--that is the logical thing for her character to do. It's the perfect way for her to be involved in this story, and the writers completely ignored it. Why? Because Iris is not a priority to them. Period. It was a bigger priority to give her those Screenwriting 101 Jealous Girl scenes, because that's what they needed for Barry's story.

 

All the characters aside from Barry are underserved in certain ways, and that makes sense because he's the lead. But Iris is the one who feels like a problem, because the others serve a function on the show (I'm talking about Caitlin, Cisco, Wells, and Joe here). Iris's main function is to be Barry's love interest right now, and her journalism stuff is not critical to the plot of the show. Because the writers aren't making it critical. They need to do that. And they need to drop this jealousy thing right now. Kill it with fire.

[Xander]

Her jealous reaction is still a reaction which is much more than we've gotten in the last few episodes. 

[quarks]

I have to agree that this episode would have worked a lot better for me if Iris had been out chasing the Firestorm story instead of following the Linda and Barry story. That would have helped to tie her into the episode and shown us that yes, journalism is something she's interested in. And she wouldn't necessarily have had to encounter Team Flash while doing so - she could have just done "People on the Street" interviews with anyone who happened to see a large man on fire flying around. Presumably someone in Central City besides the special effects department saw him.

[cynic]

After suffering through the vitriol thrown at Martha (Doctor Who), Tara (True Blood), Guinevere (Merlin), and Bonnie (Vampire Diaries), I'm not sure I can handle watching yet another black female main cast member get torn apart by fandom. It seems the only ones that can escape unscathed in a genre show are the warrior/badass types that pose no threat to hooking up with the lead heartthrob, like Zoe (Firefly) or Michonne (Walking Dead). That the writing often contributes to the reaction by poor characterization and marginalization is also sadly typical. I was hoping Iris would buck the trend.

I, for one, like Candice Patton a lot and think she has great romantic chemistry with Grant Gustin when he's the Flash. I hope to see the chemistry grow with Barry.

I think Iris made a mistake when she ran off at the mouth, but I don't see it as purposefully selfish or manipulative. I think she's probably just confused and working out her feelings (which we never get to see). But if her actions were bad, they were nothing on declaring love to a friend that loves and is living with someone you're also friends with. Plus, he spent several weeks purposely flirting with her as the Flash and overstepped a bit even as Barry. Where are the harsh words for him?

Edited February 11, 2015 by cynic

[driedfruit]

While I understand the dismay over Iris being pushed into the background right now, I think this is clearly temporary. I can't see the Star Labs team staying as it is in season two since Wells is being set up to be exposed as a villain in the final, an arc that involves both Iris and Joe, although from separate ends.  And I think once that happens the dynamics on the show are going to shift a great deal. And that's gonna work in Iris' favour. 

 

IMO Iris' role is going to grow over future seasons (like with Lana's after season one of Smallville). Once her journalism arc gets going and her comic book background gets explored, she'll likely have a lot more prominence in the series.

[Trini]

I agree they need to write Iris better, but I think the reaction to the latest episode is overblown. I hardly think she been thrown under a bus. Of course the lead's new love interest is going to get some significant screentime.

 

How about some BFF scenes with Barry? (We had more of these earlier in the season) Or getting inside police info from Eddie? Interviewing the STAR Labs crew? I don't knew how much they plan to have Linda on the show, but maybe she and Iris can become friends. There's a few simple ideas; get with it writers!

 

 

The worst offender was Clark and Lois pairing in the tv show version with Dean Cain simply because Lois came off as only liking Clark when she discovered he was Superman and not because she actually liked Clark.

That's not what happened at all. But that's another thread.

[FurryFury]

I think a very big problem may something else entirely. Something that all comic book shows and movies have to deal with. The "destined pairing." Clark/Lana and Clark/Lois, Oliver/Laurel, Peter/MJ, Thor/Jane, and now Barry/Iris.

Because those are all canon relationships in comics, the writers are forced to give them a shot in tv/movies. Unfortunately, if the wrtiting, acting, and chemistry isn't there.... the audience isn't going to buy it. People don't like being told who to ship. Especially when it happens in the very first episode of a tv show.

 

ITA. Although it doesn't only happen with comic book adaptations, it happens with all kinds of media. The question is if the writers realize they've screwed up and change things. Arrow switched from Laurel to Felicity (saidly, she still remained on the show), The 100 killed off main heroine's love interest when it became apparent the romance didn't work, etc. The problem often isn't even the relationships themselves, it's the characterization. Many writers seem content to just label the character "love interest", as if it automatically means she (and it's often she, sadly) doesn't need anything more, doesn't need her own storyline and personality and life outside of main character. And thus we're stuck with charisma-free inconsistently characterized people like Laurel or Jane Foster (a good example, because all other women on Thor are much more interesting and dynamic).

 

The right way to create a romance? Establish a few characters in the pilot, insert a tiny amount of ship tease to test waters with the audience, create a platonic relationship of some kind between them (friendly, collegial or adversarial) and only then, depending on cast chemistry and storyline development, start thinking about them falling in love down the road. Don't start off with one character already in love with another - it shoehorns her into "love interest" role from the get-go and doesn't let the audience see and understand why, exactly, did he fall in love with her. It irked me in Arrow, and it irks me here (maybe not as much because at least I could see why Barry finds Iris attractive, unlike Oliver and Laurel).

 

After suffering through the vitriol thrown at Martha (Doctor Who), Tara (True Blood), Guinevere (Merlin), and Bonnie (Vampire Diaries), I'm not sure I can handle watching yet another black female main cast member get torn apart by fandom. It seems the only ones that can escape unscathed in a genre show are the warrior/badass types that pose no threat to hooking up with the lead heartthrob, like Zoe (Firefly) or Michonne (Walking Dead).

 

There are plenty of white female characters who were hated in fandoms. I really doubt race is such a big factor in those cases.

[Shanna]

The right way to create a romance? Establish a few characters in the pilot, insert a tiny amount of ship tease to test waters with the audience, create a platonic relationship of some kind between them (friendly, collegial or adversarial) and only then, depending on cast chemistry and storyline development, start thinking about them falling in love down the road. Don't start off with one character already in love with another - it shoehorns her into "love interest" role from the get-go and doesn't let the audience see and understand why, exactly, did he fall in love with her. It irked me in Arrow, and it irks me here (maybe not as much because at least I could see why Barry finds Iris attractive, unlike Oliver and Laurel).

There are plenty of white female characters who were hated in fandoms. I really doubt race is such a big factor in those cases.

The thing is, I really like Barry and iris as long time friends and they are trying to give her another story with journalism they are just doing a poor job writing and plotting that story. This week should have been a journalism forces for iris, not a romance one. She has that picture of the flash. She could have been writing up a story on that and maybe chasing firestorm. I bet they are saving her journalism story for whatever episode they have that guy she's working with but that is stupid.

I think she was a little irritating this episode but she's not a tanked character or anything. I think people are just in this 'crap I've seen this story before and I don't want to see it again' place. I think they were fine as they started if they had just dropped Barry's stupid love forever thing because then it all could have happened onscreen and that is more interesting to watch and doesn't make iris have to have this jealous realization stuff while in a relationship which I think most people hate.

As for the race thing, I think that's another thread. I didn't hate most of the characters and there are plenty of hated love interests of other colors. And sleepy hollow has the opposite problem since everybody hates Katrina and wants Abbie back. Sometimes show runners and writers fall for these actresses whom don't work or are terrible writers. When the combination happens, you have laurel!

[FurryFury]

I think she was a little irritating this episode but she's not a tanked character or anything.

 

Oh, I don't think she's ruined. I didn't hate her in this episode, I hated the tired cliche, but I expected it. And there are other parts of the show I'm not feeling (like Firestorm), not just Iris/Barry. I'd really love it if they just dropped this romance for a season or at least a half and developed Iris, but I'm afraid we'll have a Lauriver #2 on our hands, as much as it sucks to say it. And both characters deserve more.

[quarks]

I'm not sure we're anywhere near Lauriver #2.  Fans were asking that to end and to kick Laurel off the show as early as the second episode of Arrow, which is just not something I'm seeing here.  Lots of wanting Iris to have more to do, or to find out about Barry's secret, and now some negative reactions from the most recent episode - but that's just one episode, and right here on this board some fans are saying they aren't thrilled with Caitlin or Linda, either. 

[FurryFury]

We aren't near it, true, but it doesn't mean it won't happen eventually. Because the last few episodes have made it perfectly clear the writers haven't learned their lesson when it comes to romance.

[peachmangosteen]

People disliking Iris, especially during this episode, makes perfect sense to me.

I don't think this is some grand conspiracy, and I certainly don't think it had anything to do with race, at least for the audience. just hack writing and the curse of 'canon'.

 

This. Is some of the hate Iris gets elsewhere based in race, I'm sure it is, but there are legitimate reasons to not like Iris and that's the fault of the writers. I'm not gonna blame the fandom for the writers absolutely botching Iris' character development or going down a terrible road with Barry/Iris. 

 

IMO Iris' role is going to grow over future seasons (like with Lana's after season one of Smallville). Once her journalism arc gets going and her comic book background gets explored, she'll likely have a lot more prominence in the series.

I think it might be too late by then.