S03.E08: It Reaches Out

[btp]

On 5/31/2018 at 11:14 AM, marinw said:

A Rabbi, A Priest and an Iman walk into a Protomolecule...

A belter walks into a bar, and the bartender says, "Hey, why the long face?"

Yeah, I know. Hey, they can't all be comedy gold.

 

On 5/31/2018 at 10:02 AM, marinw said:

That's not mine. Cher on The Churn Podcast cames up with that IIRC. But you are welcome.

Yeah, I think it predates Cher by a fair amount. They didn't start doing the podcast until at least late season 1, as I recall, and people were calling Holden "Space Jon Snow" on Reddit and AV Club and probably dozens of other places pretty much from Episode 1 (or maybe 2) on.

 

On 5/31/2018 at 8:28 PM, raven said:

This was a true test for Drummer and she was really caught between a rock and a hard place.

The pain in Dominique Tipper's face and voice as Naomi was being dragged off the command bridge, all the while pleading with Drummer, basically pleading for Holden's life, was palpable. I loved her pleas to Drummer, in Belter: "To sasa im! To sasa im!" she cries. That's Lang Belta for "You know him!" That was a nice touch, appealing to Drummer in their shared native tongue.

 

On 5/31/2018 at 10:28 PM, tennisgurl said:

I've actually heard both shows compared to The Wire, being about a huge cast of complex characters from all around the city/kingdom/system, and how they all affect each other, even if they are completely different in personality or social class, or never even meet. People are morally ambiguous, and even well meaning people can screw up, and people are often affected by huge social or political changes that they dont even have anything to do with.

Another way they are like The Wire is that all three shows do a fair amount of world building without explicit exposition. You are dropped in the middle of a foreign place and are expected to catch up and figure it out. I love that way of telling stories, I love it when they give the audience credit for having brains and the capacity to figure this stuff out. It does require pretty much rapt attention of the viewers, though, lest they miss an important line or phrase that helps make sense of it all. Occasionally, especially recently in light of all the public accolades the show has been receiving, I read a post somewhere by a person who doesn't like the show, and then when I read the explanation of why they didn't like it, it's clear their problem is they weren't paying attention. Yeah, the show can be a bit confusing, especially at first, but if you don't try to watch it while simultaneously folding laundry, eating a sandwich, and doing your homework, you can absolutely work it out. It's not really that confusing. (okay, turning on captions helps too)

 

I thought I copied somebody's message above into my multiquote box, but it appears I don't have it anymore... the question was whether Naomi in this episode was the first person to call Drummer by her given name (Camina). Ashford actually called her that a couple of times last week, so he was first. Fun book fact (really not significant enough to call a spoiler) - in the books, we don't learn Drummer's first name until book 8. And she doesn't seem to like being called by it very much, either. So far, TV Drummer hasn't indicated that she cares much one way or the other, but I think it would be pretty funny if she eventually yelled (or worse) at somebody who called her that.

Edited June 2, 2018 by btp

[Holmbo]

I think Drummer made the right decision to order fire on the Rocci. There are lots of inners who would love an excuse to blow the Behemoth up. She can't risk her crew, and the emerging Belter state, for three people. I think she knew that the message might very well be fake but she felt that was still their only possible response. They have to clamp down super hard on anything terrorist related.

Speaking of thinking under pressure, I'm really impressed with Holden for being able to interpret Millers message. No way I would have gotten that doors and corners meant fly slowly into the ring :D But maybe if Holden is somehow getting these messages inside his head there is some intuitional stuff getting through too. I really wonder why just Holden can see him. Someone above had some theory that it was connected to those devices for radiation treatment both Holden and Miller got. But I don't see how they could send anything like that. And he did the PM scan, he doesn't have it in him. Unless it's gotten better at hiding. In that case we should be worried for the Behemoth, with Naomi coming there from the Rocci.

[CheetaraThunder]

2 hours ago, Holmbo said:

I think Drummer made the right decision to order fire on the Rocci. There are lots of inners who would love an excuse to blow the Behemoth up. She can't risk her crew, and the emerging Belter state, for three people. I think she knew that the message might very well be fake but she felt that was still their only possible response. They have to clamp down super hard on anything terrorist related.

Speaking of thinking under pressure, I'm really impressed with Holden for being able to interpret Millers message. No way I would have gotten that doors and corners meant fly slowly into the ring :D But maybe if Holden is somehow getting these messages inside his head there is some intuitional stuff getting through too. I really wonder why just Holden can see him. Someone above had some theory that it was connected to those devices for radiation treatment both Holden and Miller got. But I don't see how they could send anything like that. And he did the PM scan, he doesn't have it in him. Unless it's gotten better at hiding. In that case we should be worried for the Behemoth, with Naomi coming there from the Rocci.

Yeah, Drummer was really stuck between a rock and a hard place. I think she knew in her heart that the manifesto from Holden was a fake, but if she did nothing, her ship would have probably gotten fire upon. But, watching Naomi so emotional over her love ones possibly dying in front of her eyes and she can’t do jack shit was heart breaking. Dominique continues to kill it, and so does Cara Gee.

[JZL]

I'm not grokking the seeing-hands concept.  The guy reminds me of David Byrne in an 80's MTV video or a Bowie album cover.  :rolleyes  :rollhands

[Clanstarling]

5 hours ago, btp said:

Another way they are like The Wire is that all three shows do a fair amount of world building without explicit exposition. You are dropped in the middle of a foreign place and are expected to catch up and figure it out. I love that way of telling stories, I love it when they give the audience credit for having brains and the capacity to figure this stuff out. It does require pretty much rapt attention of the viewers, though, lest they miss an important line or phrase that helps make sense of it all. Occasionally, especially recently in light of all the public accolades the show has been receiving, I read a post somewhere by a person who doesn't like the show, and then when I read the explanation of why they didn't like it, it's clear their problem is they weren't paying attention. Yeah, the show can be a bit confusing, especially at first, but if you don't try to watch it while simultaneously folding laundry, eating a sandwich, and doing your homework, you can absolutely work it out. It's not really that confusing. (okay, turning on captions helps too)

I love that too - in both tv shows and books. I hate having things spelled out for me. I do watch this while exercising - but the whole point of doing that is that I focus entirely on the show I'm watching so I am not griping about exercising. And yeah, closed captions are helpful.

4 hours ago, Holmbo said:

Speaking of thinking under pressure, I'm really impressed with Holden for being able to interpret Millers message. No way I would have gotten that doors and corners meant fly slowly into the ring :D But maybe if Holden is somehow getting these messages inside his head there is some intuitional stuff getting through too. I really wonder why just Holden can see him. Someone above had some theory that it was connected to those devices for radiation treatment both Holden and Miller got. But I don't see how they could send anything like that. And he did the PM scan, he doesn't have it in him. Unless it's gotten better at hiding. In that case we should be worried for the Behemoth, with Naomi coming there from the Rocci.

My guess is that the protomolecule could communicate with anyone in the range of bits of the protomolecule (the blob on the Roci). But that it chose Holden because he plays large in Miller's last memories.

 

4 minutes ago, JZL said:

I'm not grokking the seeing-hands concept.  The guy reminds me of David Byrne in an 80's MTV video or a Bowie album cover.  :rolleyes  :rollhands

LOL. My guess (again) is that he senses vibrations of a sort. At least that's the way I handwave it.

[Holmbo]

31 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

 

My guess is that the protomolecule could communicate with anyone in the range of bits of the protomolecule (the blob on the Roci). But that it chose Holden because he plays large in Miller's last memories.

But why would it need to choose!?

So much mystery! 

[MissLucas]

Maybe the protomolecule is also a secret Jon Snow fan? Joking aside I think it's either that the protomolecule chose someone who is prominent in its chosen conduit's (Miller's) mind or it's because of all the folks heading towards the Ring Holden is the one with the most protomolecule experience (something it would be able to scan) - or maybe it's both.

[Haleth]

Speaking of GoT, I wonder if Martin is still making excuses for not finishing his books in the 23rd c.  lol

[Danny Franks]

So I really liked Steven Strait's performance in this episode. He gets a lot of flack from fans, but I think it's par for the course when you're playing a straitlaced, leading man. The narrative rests on his shoulders, and there's less room for him to come up with distracting characteristics. Do I think he's a great actor? No. But I think he's fine. And I think his performance here, as a guy who is reaching the end of his rope, was effective. He fell apart, convincingly and completely.

I really liked the little moment where he told Monica to talk to Alex about the Maneo vid. Because Holden didn't want to, but he also knows Alex does want to be in the documentary, and perhaps also knows that Monica has been shortchanging him. And there were lots of little moments in the show, between the three guys, that sold their deepening friendships.

Loved the scene with Holden and Amos:

"That... might have looked weird."

"Hey, none of my business."

And I loved the later exchange between Amos and Alex.

"Hey, who doesn't talk to themselves every now and again?"

"... Me."

"Yeah, well, most people do, Amos."

The delay and repeat effects on Miller were very disconcerting, and made it clear from the start that this wasn't a ghost, or Miller somehow remade by the Protomolecule. It has Miller's face, Miller's voice, and maybe Miller's personality, but it ain't Miller. An Investigator, designed by the Protomolecule to find and fix errors, a computer programme, and it apparently chose Miller as a personification because he was a cop, or because he knew Holden. Or both.

Cara Gee is such a find. How is she not already a well known actor? She has so much presence, and quiet, seething stength to her performance. It's no small task, going up against David Strathairn when he's in full scenery chewing mode, and still remain the focus of the scene. We've seen Belter bitterness and resentment before, from various characters, but Drummer is the one who I feel brings the most pathos and depth to it.

Naomi still seems like an observer, more than a protagonist, on the Behemoth. I guess she's going to be given a choice at some point, as to who she should side with.

Melba feels really out of her depth, and acting from desperation rather than the sort of professionalism you'd expect from a saboteur. I'm guessing that was the first person she's ever killed.  But she certainly looked happy to be screwing Holden over, didn't she? But did creepy camera guy sign up for a suicide mission, or did they not realise that the Behemoth or the Thomas Prince would fire at the Roci?

I'm still not over how great this show is with the physics of space. The flip and burn manoeuvre to slow down, the G-forces knocking the Roci crew out cold. But then the reveal, right at the end, that the Ring slows things down. And apparently, you can survive if you slow down before it makes you.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Danny Franks

[snowwhyte]

I don't think Drummer firing on the Rocinante will convince Earth and Mars that the Belters weren't in on the bombing. Given the OPA are mostly considered to be terrorists I'm sure the Inners would believe that they are willing sacrifice an operative for the cause. 

[btp]

2 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Maybe the protomolecule is also a secret Jon Snow fan?

mumble mumble. Doors and corners, kid, that's where they get you. Really loved you in that scene in Episode 8. So, there was this unlicensed brothel on Ceres...

(I could do that better if I actually knew anything about GoT. Never could get into it, surprising as that will be to many here. Just doesn't do it for me.)

Anyway... The Investigator tells Holden why it chose him. It's because he has a ship. "I'm a tool that finds things. You're a tool that goes places." There are other people on the Rocinante, and they all share ownership of it, but Holden is the Captain, so he's the lucky winner of the "This is your brain on the Protomolecule" contest.

 

1 hour ago, Danny Franks said:

So I really liked Steven Strait's performance in this episode. He gets a lot of flack from fans, but I think it's par for the course when you're playing a straitlaced, leading man. The narrative rests on his shoulders, and there's less room for him to come up with distracting characteristics. Do I think he's a great actor? No. But I think he's fine.

 

Ah, the paradox that is Steven Strait. The funny thing is, if you watch him interviewed, or you talk to him (as I actually had the good fortune to be able to do once), it's clear that this is a man who thinks a great deal about his craft, someone who goes out of his way to get things right. He's a very thoughtful actor, just not always a very good one. But actually, I agree, he's come a long way, though a lot of that is development of the character, who has grown up and become more realistic of late, plus the writing and direction has become more tight of late. And certainly one would expect his performance to become better and more natural as he spends more time in the role. But I agree, he has done that. A lot of people have commented on it. It's great to see, especially since Strait seems to be a hell of a nice guy, who deserves much success.

EDIT: I also might point out, there is a long history of scenery-chewing commanders in Science Fiction. Just Saying.

 

1 hour ago, Danny Franks said:

Cara Gee is such a find. How is she not already a well known actor? She has so much presence, and quiet, seething stength to her performance. It's no small task, going up against David Strathairn when he's in full scenery chewing mode, and still remain the focus of the scene. We've seen Belter bitterness and resentment before, from various characters, but Drummer is the one who I feel brings the most pathos and depth to it.

 

She really does. They seem to have quite a few underrated actors up there in the Great White North. I think this is actually one of the advantages of making a show in places like Canada, Australia, etc, These are places where productions sometimes go to get the most bang they can for their budgetary bucks. But as a bonus, there's often a huge pool of untapped talent in places like this, and as a show like The Expanse gains some prestige, it starts to attract the best of the best, not only locally, but eventually from Hollywood as well. I mean, obviously there are plenty of shows made in Toronto and Vancouver and other Canadian places, I'm not trying to suggest that Canada is some sort of soulless, barren tundra. But if you compare the number of productions in Canada to the number of productions in Hollywood alone, it's just obvious that there are going to be a comparatively larger pool of actors to choose from, and a better chance of finding somebody truly gifted in that larger pool.

Plus, I think the show just happens to have an uncommonly good casting team with a real talent for finding really top notch people.

And then you couple this with writing and direction that's at the top of its game, and everyone just steps it up a notch. It's ... synchronicity, one might say.

Edited June 2, 2018 by btp

[JZL]

15 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

I'm still not over how great this show is with the physics of space. The flip and burn manoeuvre to slow down, the G-forces knocking the Roci crew out cold. But then the reveal, right at the end, that the Ring slows things down. And apparently, you can survive if you slow down before it makes you.

Yeah, how many shows/movies would have had the armada of ships burning nose-on at the Ring instead of the ships backing toward it doing decel burns?

[anamika]

11 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

I'm still not over how great this show is with the physics of space. The flip and burn manoeuvre to slow down, the G-forces knocking the Roci crew out cold. But then the reveal, right at the end, that the Ring slows things down. And apparently, you can survive if you slow down before it makes you.

 

Yeah, I think this is one of the best things about the show. I don't think we have seen a space show before that tackles the lack of friction in space. While I loved the cool manoeuvres of the vipers in BSG, this is what's more realistic. 

Though the reporters were not as good at high G acting as the Roci crew with their heads falling to the side when they became unconscious.

17 hours ago, Holmbo said:

Speaking of thinking under pressure, I'm really impressed with Holden for being able to interpret Millers message. No way I would have gotten that doors and corners meant fly slowly into the ring :D

I think the more relevant message here was "Go into a room too fast, kid, the room eats you". But, yeah, Holden seems to have done a lot of quick thinking there to connect the dots.

Edited June 3, 2018 by anamika

[rozen]

I love how the protomolecule consistently attempts to deconstruct and reassemble everything it touches into something that is multi-purpose. It actually seems to have no malicious intent, it's just trying to do whatever the hell it was mandated to do as quickly as possible. I bet things like hybrids are just supposed to be defense ants protecting construction from hostile forces, not supersoliders.

I like how with the later iterations Miller seemed to have moments where his statements were pleasing to him. Like he struck a balance between communicating in a way that was not deemed defective by his manufacturer, but was also something humans could understand. The idea that he gets disassembled and reassembled continuously until the protomolecule can generate a signal the sentient life forms in this universe can understand...is stark yo.

Amos being willing to jump into the breach with Miller was so sweet. True bromance is blossoming! I'm looking forward to everyone putting 2 and 2 together and spacing the documentary crew. Well, they will probably just put them in confinement because they're good people. But they deserve some Drummer style justice right about now.

I don't think the OPA can get back Naomi after this. "Acting like Inners" indeed. Shoot first and say 'whoops, didn't need to murder you after all' later. Roci crew needs their own private multiverse away from all this bullshit.

[Holmbo]

17 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

So I really liked Steven Strait's performance in this episode. He gets a lot of flack from fans, but I think it's par for the course when you're playing a straitlaced, leading man. The narrative rests on his shoulders, and there's less room for him to come up with distracting characteristics. 

... 

I think you're very right about the narrative restricting him. It's like everything he does is wrapped up in the larger plot and he doesn't get anything that is just about his character.

I feel like the rest of the crew has had scenes that help us get to know them and care. Scenes exploring their personal interests, both smaller ones and big personal concerns. But with Holden it's only ever the large scale. 

[SmithW6079]

On 5/30/2018 at 11:15 PM, thuganomics85 said:

It certainly seems like Melba's goal it to turn everyone against Holden, by making him look like he was responsible for a terrorist attack.  ... That said, Melba clearly seemed torn up over killing the guy from last week, so it doesn't look like she's some kind of full-blown sociopathy/psychopath, but just really has it out for Holden. 

I don't give a shit if Melba feels bad about her actions. She killed one man in cold blood with her bare hands, and she's a mass murderer. She deserves to die a lingering painful death, especially if she destroyed a ship to get back at one man.

Edited June 16, 2018 by SmithW6079