Shax Attack: Original vs Reboot Discussion

[ByaNose]

I still think the oldest sister looks like their mother. She is just so much taller and older looking then the over two and sticks out like a sore thumb. 

[Adira]

6 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

I am pretty sure it is the same house as Witches of East End lol.

Yep, absolutely the same house (I just rewatched that show).

I didn't love the new show yet.  They really failed to form the sisterly bond that the OG was known for.  In the original pilot, you could really FEEL they were sisters, from Piper trying to break it to Prue that Phoebe was moving back in, to Prue and Phoebe arguing over Roger.  It was very REAL.  Besides Mel showing up and embarrassing Maggie in the very beginning, this show really was missing that family/sister aspect.  Hoping that part of the show gets better as it goes along.

Also, that twist at the end?  If Harry is evil, how can he hold the book??  Or is the show just going to skip that part of Charmed lore?

[Lady Calypso]

I think my issue with the Vera house is that it's too dark. I didn't realize what my issue was until it was pointed out on the episode thread. The Halliwell Manor was a lot brighter and open, but I felt like the house gave off its own certain type of personality. While, with the Vera House, it was so dark that I couldn't tell what it really looked like inside so it didn't give me a homey feeling. In fact, I enjoyed the moments outside of the house far more because I felt like I could actually see things better. The attic was fine, but it needs to be a teensy bit brighter. I get it was trying to give off a creepy and ominous vibe, but it was really just too dark for me. 

[HunterHunted]

13 hours ago, slf said:

We're they always friends? It was Shannen and Alyssa who couldn't stand each other.

13 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Shannen/Holly were bffs for 20+ years up until she got cancer.

 

Shannen gave an interview where she talked about how she lost some friendships because those friends felt that all Shannen ever talked about was her cancer. Here's the exact quote:

Quote

People went, 'Um, no, you're just not fun anymore. You're sick and you're not drinking. You talk about cancer and I don't want to hear any talk about cancer. I want to talk about me.

If Holly was one of these people, she's really just awful. We don't know that she is. All we know us that they had a falling out around the time Shannen found out she had cancer.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2016/10/28/shannen-doherty-interview-brings-chelsea-handler-tears/92880262/

[Adira]

I agree - the insides of the house were really dark and I couldn't get much of a feel for it.  Also, the attic?  How friggin' big is their roof??  Their attic looked HUGE, which makes no sense given what the house looks like on the outside.  At least the original Charmed attic actually LOOKED like an attic, with slanted walls and exposed beams.  This did not look like an attic...

[DeathQuaker]

I thought the ending insinuated Harry might not be a whitelighter, so maybe that's why his powers don't look right (or they look different to make audiences with meta-knowledge wonder).

[Guest]

On 24/09/2018 at 10:09 PM, Keywestclubkid said:

Looks like Melinda will be a part of this show

I wonder. Is that an image of the original actress? If so, they may have left an "in" here for a potential crossover. (Any potential crossover was then destroyed when they decided to use their promo time to diss the original and have a feud with HMC lmao). 

On 04/10/2018 at 9:32 AM, K42 said:

I'm happy Charmed is getting a reboot. I'm even happier than Shannen Doherty seems to on board with it. I hope they bring Prue back and a mentor or something. I love her on screen presence and frankly, all the shows she left end up sucking after she let go. I hate what's become of HMC, Alyssa Milano and Rose. They constantly sound so ungrateful towards the show, not to mention how off putting they've been towards each other. This makes the old show kinda difficult to watch and enjoy. The only issue I have with this is that the creator is the same person who did Jane The Virgin which was an awful show. I also can't tell the sisters apart. They all look way too similar.

I don't know how on earth you can say HMC is ungrateful to the show. She's spent the last 6 years on the convention circuits around the world talking to fans of the show, answering questions and signing stuff. Not to mention, her response to the reboot has been in defence of the original. 

 

Alyssa Milano I couldn't comment on either way since I've rarely seen her talk about the show. And Rose has always only ever had negative things to say about everything, but given everything we've learned the past 12 months she seems a very damaged woman. 

[Guest]

On 10/10/2018 at 3:13 PM, HunterHunted said:

I didn't know about the younger actresses' social media behavior. That's not ok or professional. Then Holly instagrams a picture of herself as Piper holding a knife saying "we wish them well." That's a weirdly antagonistic response. There were stones thrown on both sides. Even if the younger actresses went low first, she could have responded like Shannen and Alyssa, who were far more diplomatic. Instead she started responding like an immature asshole too. At least 2 of the actresses in the reboot are in their 20s, what's Holly's excuse.

Yes, Charmed was "feminist" for it's era and part of it's run. However, its peers including Ally McBeal, Sex and the City, and Buffy have had their versions of feminism reexamined and critiqued in recent years. Charmed is no less or more deserving of similar critiques. Holly is just too emotional and immature to notice that this something cultural critics are doing to lots of late 90s shows.

I agree with the younger actress that Charmed had no PoC because it functionally did not. Darryl and Sheila were there, but race almost never informed anything those two characters ever did. The show had 2 episodes that I can recall that focused on Chinese culture. They had the 1 episode about Dr. Ava/Eva her family's Romani magical practice. Considering how long the show ran, this basically amounts to no representation because it was so rare and usually incompetent that it's negligible. Buffy had similar issues as did Sex and the City. This is a perfectly valid criticism; it's not throwing stones. If Holly can't tell the difference, then she should get out of the business. And frankly if Charmed hadn't been viewed as mostly crap by TV critics in the 90s and early aughts, it would have received more contemporaneous criticism about diversity as Buffy and Sex and the City actually did.

You seem to be throwing everything but the kitchen sink in Holly's direction when she hasn't even responded to comments about the original show's "representation" or otherwise. 

Also, if "representation" is this new show's heavy handed and completely ridiculous notion that being straight, white or male or any combination of the three is intrinsically bad then they can keep it in all honesty. The attempts at political relevancy are beyond juvenile. 

The original had a problem with good/evil being too black and white, this version has opted for black and white feminism and it's actually embarrassing. 

The original was pure 90s cheese, there's no excuse for this one. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Lost

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I think my issue with the Vera house is that it's too dark. I didn't realize what my issue was until it was pointed out on the episode thread. The Halliwell Manor was a lot brighter and open, but I felt like the house gave off its own certain type of personality. While, with the Vera House, it was so dark that I couldn't tell what it really looked like inside so it didn't give me a homey feeling. In fact, I enjoyed the moments outside of the house far more because I felt like I could actually see things better. The attic was fine, but it needs to be a teensy bit brighter. I get it was trying to give off a creepy and ominous vibe, but it was really just too dark for me. 

Tbf, it might be better in future episodes since I imagine the rest of the episodes they have built the house on a sound stage? 

I know the original pilot for the old series, the house was very gloomy as they filmed in the real house and then changed it up for the actual series. 

[Esmeralda]

On 9/24/2018 at 4:09 PM, Keywestclubkid said:

Looks like Melinda will be a part of this show

Nope, we were told elsewhere that the picture of Melinda Warren is nothing but an Easter Egg for Classic Charmed fans. She won't appear and at least as of this point, none of the actors from Classic Charmed will appear. There is no connection at all between the Halliwells (or the Warrens) and the Veras.  It should never have been called Charmed!  I wonder how many people would watch this show if it *wasn't* called Charmed.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Esmeralda

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Esmeralda said:

Nope, we were told elsewhere that the picture of Melinda Warren is nothing but an Easter Egg for Classic Charmed fans. She won't appear and at least as of this point, none of the actors from Classic Charmed will appear. There is no connection at all between the Halliwells (or the Warrens) and the Veras.  It should never have been called Charmed!  I wonder how many people would watch this show if it *wasn't* called Charmed.

 

They've already clarified there will be no major connection as of yet, but I think things like this were peppered into the show that, should it struggle to gain any traction, they could've had a crossover and actually say instead of a reboot it's a continuation/spin off of the original show. 

However, I imagine this was before all of the drama surrounding it ensued. Can't see any original cast members wanting to appear now. 

Which is kind of good. It makes no sense in the universe of the original show for these sisters to exist in the same family line. Not that the original was very good with continuity but still. Lol. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Lost

[Cherpumple]

On 10/14/2018 at 10:34 PM, Lady Calypso said:

Again, the whole "you get 24 hours to choose" seems to be a callback to season 4 and Paige having a short window to become a witch, but that was more about her either being a good witch or an evil witch, rather than choosing to be a witch or not, so it was dumb. Plus, NOTHING came out of it here. I actually forgot that it was a choice until after the episode ended because they tried to do too much in the pilot and seemed to forget about this window the scene after the option was presented.

Yeah, that was a pointless addition to an already overstuffed plot. First, there was absolutely no tension or suspense to the choice because it was the pilot episode - of course they're going to stay witches, otherwise there wouldn't be a show! And second, since the sisters were brand new to their powers, they had no idea what this choice actually meant, and there was no emotional impact. When the Halliwells were given a choice to relinquish their powers as a reward for vanquishing the Source, you could really feel the emotional weight of the situation because they had been through so much, good and bad, and you could really understand why they would agonize over the decision.

I agree with others that the heavy-handed introduction of Harry was a misstep. I don't mind that he's there already, but I definitely prefer to see the sisters figure things out on their own, rather than getting spoon-fed information about their powers right off the bat. I actually like that he's a bit sassy and bitchy, compared to boring old Leo, and am intrigued by the twist that he might not be trustworthy.

[K42]

On 10/16/2018 at 1:44 AM, Lost said:

I wonder. Is that an image of the original actress? If so, they may have left an "in" here for a potential crossover. (Any potential crossover was then destroyed when they decided to use their promo time to diss the original and have a feud with HMC lmao). 

I don't know how on earth you can say HMC is ungrateful to the show. She's spent the last 6 years on the convention circuits around the world talking to fans of the show, answering questions and signing stuff. Not to mention, her response to the reboot has been in defence of the original. 

 

Alyssa Milano I couldn't comment on either way since I've rarely seen her talk about the show. And Rose has always only ever had negative things to say about everything, but given everything we've learned the past 12 months she seems a very damaged woman. 

She might have been to every convention but that doesn't entitle her to be bitchy about the new show. Maybe if she didn't whine her way through the majority of the seasons on Charmed, they might have asked her to at least make an appearance. She didn't even give the new show (and women) a chance. She just attacked the reboot left and right while SD who was supposedly "difficult" was more mature and accepting of it. HMC is unpleasant. 

[Lady Calypso]

4 hours ago, Cherpumple said:

Yeah, that was a pointless addition to an already overstuffed plot. First, there was absolutely no tension or suspense to the choice because it was the pilot episode - of course they're going to stay witches, otherwise there wouldn't be a show! And second, since the sisters were brand new to their powers, they had no idea what this choice actually meant, and there was no emotional impact. When the Halliwells were given a choice to relinquish their powers as a reward for vanquishing the Source, you could really feel the emotional weight of the situation because they had been through so much, good and bad, and you could really understand why they would agonize over the decision.

Also, Harry presented the choice but they never explored any of the girls thinking about not becoming a witch, besides MAYBE a couple of lines. We could have seen Maggie, for example, be adamant about not having powers. They could have focused more on the emotional decision on being witches, but they forced not one but TWO villains into the episode. They could have utilized this choice as the original show had, but they didn't because they tried to stuff too much into the pilot.

4 hours ago, Cherpumple said:

I agree with others that the heavy-handed introduction of Harry was a misstep. I don't mind that he's there already, but I definitely prefer to see the sisters figure things out on their own, rather than getting spoon-fed information about their powers right off the bat. I actually like that he's a bit sassy and bitchy, compared to boring old Leo, and am intrigued by the twist that he might not be trustworthy.

Heh. I actually liked Leo for most of the run, but especially near the end when the sisters were getting shrilly and whiny. But I guess there's a reason why Leo may have been my favourite part of season 7, a season I actually don't like at all. I guess he got to have a personality in that season, which was great.

Harry has a personality, but in all the wrong ways. He could have been a solid character if they didn't force him as much as they did. He was way too pushy and it just turned me off of what is probably a solid character overall.

[Cherpumple]

I liked Leo as a person, and he was a great partner for Piper, but he was a dull character for me for the most part. It didn't help that he seemed to be added as an afterthought and the showrunners never quite got their facts straight about what the role of whitelighters and the Elders actually was.

So far I like Macy's science background (she has the potential to make some amazing potions), and Mel's strong personality, especially with the twist that her powers only work when she's not angry, but Maggie feels useless so far. Phoebe often lamented having a passive power, but she loved being a witch, was street smart, and was very compassionate and eager to help others (at least at first). But so far Maggie has a similar passive power, has no real interest in being a witch, and seems like a follower/wannabe. I'm not sure what she brings to the table.

I wish they had chosen slightly different names. Macy and Maggie sound too similar and I can already tell that I'm going to get confused when they start yelling to each other during loud or chaotic scenes.

[Esmeralda]

Another member left a review at the other site I frequent and finally I've found a real Charmed fan showing me why this reboot deserves to be called "Charmed", not "Rip-off" for ripping off so many different shows.  I still don't plan on watching a second of it, the way I haven't watched a second of any The CW show - just not my thing - but I know now that I want to be able to follow along, especially thanks to reviews like this one:

Quote

The pilot wasn't as good as Something Wicca This Way Comes, but it definitely wasn't as bad as say anything from Season 8 of Charmed. The thing I dreaded most was the actress playing the middle sister. Her acting wasn't that bad, but I do hope she improves. I think she is my least favorite acting wise. 

The political stuff wasn't as heavy as I thought it was going to be, but I can see how it can be too much for some people. I think Mel and Harry were the most political based characters. Scenes without Mel and Harry rarely became political from what I remember. Which is kinda realistic. Everyone has that one family member who won't stop talking about politics and their family/friends tolerate them out of love.

I personally don't have anything against Macy moving in so quickly. Plus, all three realize that with demons around they'll be safest and strongest together. So, it's both sweet and practical to let her move in with them. This is NOT the same situation with Piper, Phoebe and Paige. Macy is not replacing a dead sister. When Paige found her sisters it took a while for everyone to warm up to each other because it would seem like she was only around to replace Prue. Something Paige herself didn't want as she expressed to Leo. 

Macy moving in seems like a nice gesture on Mel and Maggie's part and it's understandable given their situation. After showing her home videos, Mel and Maggie looked a bit guilty they got to grow up with their mom when Macy didn't. Maggie's powers even showed her how alone Macy felt growing up even though she tried to hide it. With Macy you can see, due to the nuanced acting of the actress, how much she is hurt by finding out her mom didn't die like her father told her but instead went on to have and raise two more daughters. 

It's almost like a Parent Trap situation. I wonder why Marisol allowed Macy's father to raise her and tell her she was dead. Was it a Victor situation only more successful? I'm curious to find out. After Patty died, I think Victor would have raised Prue, Piper and Phoebe away from the manor and magic if Grams hadn't interfered.

I did like how the new sisters dynamic doesn't automatically shift to their stereotypical birth orders because Macy shows up. 

 

Mel, the middle sister, still acts like the oldest sister. She is very opinionated, headstrong and basically attempts to lead both Maggie and Macy.

Maggie is very much the baby sister. Although stubborn, she eventually becomes swayed by Mel's opinions. She's very much the typical teenage younger sister. Carefree and a bit rebellious, but still has a strong moral character.

The actual oldest sister, Macy, acts like someone who grew up as an only child. She's very independent and makes decisions for herself. So even though Mel has very strong opinions, Macy still thinks independently and comes to her own conclusions. I also like how Macy isn't trying to jump in and be the leader and take charge. She's not argumentative with her opinions. She's very diplomatic. She's observant and analytical, which probably plays into her being a scientist.

Unlike in Classic Charmed, they don't state why these sisters are the Charmed Ones, just that they are Charmed. There's no mention of a prophecy (other than the signs ushering in the apocalypse, which causes the Source of All Evil to manifest), specific powers they have to possess, or a direct lineage to Melinda Warren (even though she's in their Book of Shadows). So I'm curious if they'll touch on why these three sisters in particular are Charmed. Harry does tell them their powers stem from their personalities, which is kinda similar to the original. 

 

 

Harry says Mel can stop time because she has a controlling personality. What's interesting with Mel is that in order to actually control her power she has to let go of her anger. I thought it was funny when Maggie told Mel her power was judging her. Personality wise, she's basically early Season 4 Piper. She's struggling with her grief and her inability to let others close to her. However, her power's trigger is forcing her to move out of this phase much faster than Piper did (if she ever really did).

Harry tells Maggie she can read minds because she's naturally intuitive or deeply insecure as both traits were two sides of the same coin when it comes to telepathy. Maggie does care a lot about what other people think. She makes decisions based on what other people think because she wants to be liked and popular. I just hope they use her mind reading as a means to tackle her insecurities. It would be ironic if Maggie learns how to think for herself from reading other people's thoughts. It'll play into the whole Phoebe has no vision, so she gets premonitions and gains a sense of purpose. Maggie cares about what other people think of her, gets telepathy and hopefully she learns to think independently from other people's influences. I think she's the most like her original character. So, in terms of personality, she's basically Season 1 Phoebe with a different power.

Macy is telekinetic and learns to control her power the fastest, and Harry says it's because of her high IQ. So, I'm guessing they are equating telekinesis with intelligence. Like Prue, she channels her powers when she gets angry, but she's also mastered it quickly enough where she doesn't necessarily need to be angry to use it. I feel like Macy is an amalgamation of Season 1 Prue and Season 4 Paige. She has Prue's intelligence and powers, but she has Paige's diplomacy, innovativeness and abandonment issues.  

I do wish Harry was less hands on in the big battle between the sisters and their first major demon. I understand they called him to heal their innocent, but the fact he had to tell them step by step how to defeat the demon and channel the Power of Three was awful. The demon definitely would have gotten the upper hand otherwise. Let's allow the sisters to be more clever and resilient without Harry in future episodes please!
 

if indeed they've taken those horrible incarnations of the Charmed Ones in the alternate-universe spin-off known as S4-8 and show how it could've/should've been done (my grin almost split my face when I read that the oldest is still the oldest, the youngest still the youngest and the only is still the only - IF ONLY!!!!) and how their personalities fits their powers - especially NuPiper's! If only her power had turned into something like this when her personality changed so horribly! And now I *really* wish NuPhoebe had gotten telepathy so she wouldn't have misused her empathy so horribly (sorry, still don't know the names well enough to know who's who, so for me, they're NuPaige, NuPiper and NuPhoebe. Right now their "whitelighter" is NuGideon until proven otherwise and the mother NuPatty until proven otherwise.)

I'm SO glad it's "The Perils of Poor, Poor Pitiful Piper" that's being rebooted and done better, while leaving "Prue and Her Sister" aka Classic Charmed alone.

And NuPhoebs still NuPhoebs and not NuPhoeME... Oh, if only! Of course she hasn't run into NuCole yet. I'm SO hoping she does and SO hoping the experience makes her a better person, not a worse. Although if they match him up with either NuPaige or NuPiper, I think that would be more fun. NuDanaScully and NuCole...oh, what a concept!
 

[libgirl2]

I gave it a try last night. At first, I wasn't feeling it but started to get into it about half way in. I liked it and I was a huge fan of the original. Its not quite as campy and needs to work things out, but I'm going to keep watching. 

I did miss How Soon is Now though. 

Edited October 19, 2018 by libgirl2

[Camera One]

I enjoyed "Charmed" back in the day, so I was a casual fan.  I never watched the final season since our cable package didn't include the WB in that last year.  

Although the CGI on the show wasn't great, I rewatched Season 1 recently, and it held up surprisingly well.  

To me, ordinary people finding out they are witches is an interesting concept, so I would have preferred a new approach.  This new pilot just felt like it was retreading territory which was same old, same old.  If they insisted on a "Charmed" connection, maybe a new story could have been set in the same "universe" but have a different focus.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Camera One

[Primal Slayer]

Charmed 1x08 - Prue casts a truth spell on Andy to see if he can accept her being a witch but due to personal gain it backfires and makes everyone around her speak the truth. They end up breaking up. The truth spell also leads to Piper/Leo finally getting together which is a big thing in the series/season.

Charmed (2018) 1x02 - The sisters brew up a truth potion to see if they can trust Harry. Macy accidentally takes the wrong coffee container leading Mels girlfriend taking the truth potion for more of a comedy effect. She reveals she slept with someone else that temporarily causes issues with Mel but everything turns out honky dory as Maggie convinces Mel to forget about it.

[slf]

On 10/19/2018 at 8:14 AM, libgirl2 said:

I did miss How Soon is Now though. 

That, for me, was probably the most iconic part of the original series. I actually wouldn't have had a problem with the new show using that song for their theme, too. It's not like the original was the first to use that cover in a tv show/movie about witches, after all, they copied The Craft which famously used it.

[Primal Slayer]

They should at least use the jingle from it for the opening.

[Guest]

On 17/10/2018 at 10:59 AM, K42 said:

She might have been to every convention but that doesn't entitle her to be bitchy about the new show. Maybe if she didn't whine her way through the majority of the seasons on Charmed, they might have asked her to at least make an appearance. She didn't even give the new show (and women) a chance. She just attacked the reboot left and right while SD who was supposedly "difficult" was more mature and accepting of it. HMC is unpleasant. 

Of course she's entitled. She can have an opinion just as you or I. In fact she's more entitled since she worked on the damn thing. Lmao. 

I'd also add that she always "wished them well" despite not agreeing with the reboot and only made comments towards them when barbs were thrown at the original show. 

[Esmeralda]

On ‎10‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 8:40 PM, slf said:

That, for me, was probably the most iconic part of the original series. I actually wouldn't have had a problem with the new show using that song for their theme, too. It's not like the original was the first to use that cover in a tv show/movie about witches, after all, they copied The Craft which famously used it.

I was hoping they'd use a different song, but at least a song.  I mean why would a show about female entitlement have a theme that starts "I am the son; I am the heir."  It always sounded more like a theme for The Charmed Sons than Charmed.  And, yes, I always thought it was "I am the sun; I am the air."  But if you read the rest of the lyrics you'll see this is what it truly is.  From what I can tell, it was part of "The Craft" which Classic Charmed was loosely based on. But once I found out the true lyrics, it just didn't make sense - and makes less sense for a show so "woke".

Edited October 26, 2018 by Esmeralda

[Maelstrom]

19 hours ago, Esmeralda said:

I was hoping they'd use a different song, but at least a song.

...

And, yes, I always thought it was "I am the sun; I am the air."

 

Sadly most shows these days don’t even have opening credits, let alone a theme song. I miss the old days. And now I sound old, lol.

I’m glad you said that about the lyrics of the original song, because that’s what I always thought they were, too. Though I maintain they’re better than the actual lyrics.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Maelstrom

[DeathQuaker]

As an aside, iirc back in the 90s, the WB required most of its shows to have a musical segment (or segments) from a new artist signed with WB records, as well as a theme song they owned the rights to and could sell. That's why Buffy and early Charmed had those club scenes for example. It was a cross pollination thing that they hoped to use to sell music (and get fans of a band to be featured to watch the show).

While a neat idea, I guess it wasn't lucrative, because these days they cut time for stuff like that for more ad time. So that's one parallel we very unlikely will not be seeing.

I wish it had a real theme song too, and I liked the old theme song a lot. That said, by the same token I'm grateful for no shoehorned filler live music scenes that stalled the plot for effectively product placement for a new album/single coming out.

[Esmeralda]

14 hours ago, DeathQuaker said:

As an aside, iirc back in the 90s, the WB required most of its shows to have a musical segment (or segments) from a new artist signed with WB records, as well as a theme song they owned the rights to and could sell. That's why Buffy and early Charmed had those club scenes for example. It was a cross pollination thing that they hoped to use to sell music (and get fans of a band to be featured to watch the show).

While a neat idea, I guess it wasn't lucrative, because these days they cut time for stuff like that for more ad time. So that's one parallel we very unlikely will not be seeing.

I wish it had a real theme song too, and I liked the old theme song a lot. That said, by the same token I'm grateful for no shoehorned filler live music scenes that stalled the plot for effectively product placement for a new album/single coming out.

The only way I'll disagree with you is that I'm *so* glad they have the sisters dancing with their non-magical boyfriends to the Cranberries at the end of 'She's a Man, Baby, a Man" - my all-time favorite scene from Classic Charmed. But Piper owning a nightclub rather than a restaurant (and her reasons why) never made a lot of sense. Charmed Ones dancing to the Cranberries

[Primal Slayer]

[Lady Calypso]

Ok, so after watching episode 3, I may have to rewatch to catch some stuff but here's some things I caught on the first watch:

• It seems like they've implied that the reboot Elders used to be witches. Which I don't think was ever said on the original, but since Leo, a human turned whitelighter, was "promoted" to be an Elder, that this version of Elders are different
• On another Elder note, it's nice to know that these Elders are still as useless as the original show's Elders. Like the original, these Elders need the Whitelighters to grant their charges permission for certain things (such as Harry asking them if Mel can tell her girlfriend about her secret). They also take an enormously long time to do things. It seems like, with Harry storing the Harbringer demon in the attic, that the Elders need to "confer" before they can do a damn thing about it. Which....thanks, Elders! Really nice that you are allowing time for the demon to possibly break away and cause more damage!
• Ah, the return of personal gain! The sisters are catching on to the original lingo quite quickly, even without prompt by Harry! As Harry tells Maggie about personal consequence, she goes right into calling it personal gain! Ah, I have NOT missed that phrase.

[Primal Slayer]

I need Mel to get her freezing game on point. That freezing motion is giving me Billie flashbacks. Give us some flicker of that wrists! Of those fingers! Don't make it look like your just trying to push something away. 

[Lady Calypso]

1 minute ago, Primal Slayer said:

I need Mel to get her freezing game on point. That freezing motion is giving me Billie flashbacks. Give us some flicker of that wrists! Of those fingers! Don't make it look like your just trying to push something away. 

It's so inconsistent too. Her and Macy keep doing different things to activate their powers and it's feeling less like the characters figuring out how to use their powers and more like the show unable to decide which method the sisters should use to use their powers. Mel's at least a little more consistent with activating it now through her hand, but Macy keeps going from using her mind to using her hands. 

[Primal Slayer]

10 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

It's so inconsistent too. Her and Macy keep doing different things to activate their powers and it's feeling less like the characters figuring out how to use their powers and more like the show unable to decide which method the sisters should use to use their powers. Mel's at least a little more consistent with activating it now through her hand, but Macy keeps going from using her mind to using her hands. 

Sadly I dont think they are really thinking about how the sisters initial powers can grow like the OG did with Pipers powers being limited to only reach so far and it increasing through the series and Prue being able to use her hands vs. her eyes. A lot of their witchcraft seems very quick in the reboot.

[Lady Calypso]

18 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Sadly I dont think they are really thinking about how the sisters initial powers can grow like the OG did with Pipers powers being limited to only reach so far and it increasing through the series and Prue being able to use her hands vs. her eyes. A lot of their witchcraft seems very quick in the reboot.

I agree. Mel froze that classroom for about two minutes. I was kind of wishing that the room would have unfroze faster than it did, but Mel apparently got a handle of her powers quickly so that she could freeze the room for as long as she wanted....and it extended out into the hallway.

Maggie's power is used but because it's a mental power and can't really be shown outright, we mostly just hear about her listening to other people's thoughts, unless it becomes a pivotal plot point. That's why I was worried about Maggie having the power to read minds. It's not a power that can easily be shown. Ok, as cheesy as it was in the original, I remember when Phoebe first got her power of empathy and the show utilized that stupid chime sound effect to show that her power was being used. I know the chime sound effect could be grating, but it showed when she was using her power. 

[GaT]

I don't like Harry. I didn't like Leo either, so maybe I just don't like whitelighters.

[Esmeralda]

9 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Ok, so after watching episode 3, I may have to rewatch to catch some stuff but here's some things I caught on the first watch:

• It seems like they've implied that the reboot Elders used to be witches. Which I don't think was ever said on the original, but since Leo, a human turned whitelighter, was "promoted" to be an Elder, that this version of Elders are different
• On another Elder note, it's nice to know that these Elders are still as useless as the original show's Elders. Like the original, these Elders need the Whitelighters to grant their charges permission for certain things (such as Harry asking them if Mel can tell her girlfriend about her secret). They also take an enormously long time to do things. It seems like, with Harry storing the Harbringer demon in the attic, that the Elders need to "confer" before they can do a damn thing about it. Which....thanks, Elders! Really nice that you are allowing time for the demon to possibly break away and cause more damage!
• Ah, the return of personal gain! The sisters are catching on to the original lingo quite quickly, even without prompt by Harry! As Harry tells Maggie about personal consequence, she goes right into calling it personal gain! Ah, I have NOT missed that phrase.

I was *so* hoping that the Elders would be more like Connie's "THEY" who were never shown and always good, even if Piper didn't think so because THEY wouldn't let her do what she wanted to do. They *weren't* useless. I keep forgetting that this is a reboot of "The Perils of Poor, Poor Pitiful Piper" (aka S4-8) not "Prue and Her Sisters" (aka S1-3). *sigh* I was *so* hoping they'd fix that!

As for personal gain, that was as inconsistently use as anything else in Classic Charmed,, even during the first season when it was perfectly AOK for Prue to use magic however she wanted, but not okay for Phoebe to do so. I was hoping this group could forget that and just skip the idea of personal gain and instead stick with the Wiccan reid: "Harm none, do what ye will." Of course the second set misused that constantly, even using it to set up someone to be murdered or someone's soul being stolen (one of many reasons why I hate S6) and should've become warlocks rather than remain witches.  I hope the reboot does this better, but I doubt it.

[Primal Slayer]

It's interesting that Macy is 28, same age as Prue when we the show began and how totally different they are. Macy feels and looks so much younger. And I guess Mel is 24? Putting her in the same age as Phoebe.

[magicdog]

I saw the pilot and the last episode and I can't stand this joke of a show!  

There was so much "woke" and "feminism" and "back off white man", I thought this was a spoof of what SJWs would put in a TV show!  

I do agree with earlier posts that I didn't think the sisters were set up properly as sisters (original series did a great job of doing that) and I just don't care about these people as characters.

When we were introduced to the Halliwells we got fully developed characters with room to grow.  This reboot/alt universe/whatever doesn't fit at all.  Not to mention that subplot of the youngest sister trying to join the sorority is still going on!  I'd have thought she'd have given up on it by now.  Plus it seems a bit like HS rather than college the way they're portrayed.

[GaT]

3 hours ago, magicdog said:

When we were introduced to the Halliwells we got fully developed characters with room to grow.  This reboot/alt universe/whatever doesn't fit at all.  

When I read this sentence I suddenly realized I have no idea what their last name is. I knew who the Halliwells were from episode 1 of the original, but I just watched the 3rd episode of the reboot & I'm still having trouble remembering their first names & am completely lost as to what their last name is. Also, does Harry have a last name? 

[HunterHunted]

@GaT their last name is Vera.

[Stardancer Supreme]

Macy Vaughn, Melanie Vera, Maggie Vera.  Harry Greenwood is their Whitelighter.

[Camera One]

9 hours ago, magicdog said:

When we were introduced to the Halliwells we got fully developed characters with room to grow.  This reboot/alt universe/whatever doesn't fit at all.  Not to mention that subplot of the youngest sister trying to join the sorority is still going on!  I'd have thought she'd have given up on it by now.  Plus it seems a bit like HS rather than college the way they're portrayed.

Three episodes in, and this show is lacking something.  The original "Charmed" really felt like three women who were living real lives, and then having to deal with being witches on top of it.  Prue and Piper liked their jobs and it was clear they were still trying to do them.  We see Macy in the lab and we see Mel in a classroom, but it's almost like they're just walking through.  We saw Andy at the police station apart from Prue, unlike the supporting characters in the reboot who we hardly know after three episodes.  On the original "Charmed", I found it easier to connect with their cases because the sisters were helping individuals.  Here, they're fighting nebulous monsters who are attacking for nebulous reasons, explained by their long-winded Whitelighter.  

[Xenith22]

On 10/29/2018 at 8:25 AM, Esmeralda said:

As for personal gain, that was as inconsistently use as anything else in Classic Charmed,, even during the first season when it was perfectly AOK for Prue to use magic however she wanted, but not okay for Phoebe to do so. I was hoping this group could forget that and just skip the idea of personal gain and instead stick with the Wiccan reid: "Harm none, do what ye will." Of course the second set misused that constantly, even using it to set up someone to be murdered or someone's soul being stolen (one of many reasons why I hate S6) and should've become warlocks rather than remain witches.  I hope the reboot does this better, but I doubt it.

In the old show the theory I subscribed to about personal gain was that it was a combination of the Charmed Ones magic amplifying spells to be more powerful than they were intended (since any spell said by a sister was equal to spell cast by three powerful witches instead of just one), and the paranoid Elders sometimes dicking with them in the name of trying to prevent them from going bad/becoming warlocks.  A simple explanation for why other witches in the show (including Patty and especially Grams) had no problem using their spells/powers for whatever and why the Charmed Ones ancestors would write forbidden "personal gain" spells like the Lost and Found spell, etc in the Book of Shadows that did not work correctly and had major negative consequences and no warning because for them it was just about sticking to the Wiccan Rede.  As far as Prue vs Phoebe the fact is that 1)  Phoebe's abusing her premonitions had significantly more consequences with potentially altering her destiny or the destiny of others  2)  The nature of Phoebe's premonition powers gave them the greater opportunity to step in and reverse it.  I mean Prue using her powers to closes a door, compared to Phoebe learning the lottery numbers is a big difference.  Even some of Prue's more negative behavior like messing with people it was done without warning and no real way for the Elders to easily reverse it.  They could have had Leo scold her more I guess but they (or else Leo) were obviously smart enough to realize that would not go over well...and they did eventually give her the Morality Bites lesson about the consequence of that kind of power abuse.  With the Charmed Ones destiny being about vanquishing the Source they weren't about to do anything as drastic as taking her powers or anything either at this point which could jeopardize that goal and increase the odds or her getting killed.

However that idea does not at all fit with what we saw here as sudden magical cramps had nothing to do with being a natural escalated backfire of a "glamour" spell itself (compared to original Charmed consequence of the glamour becoming real/hard to undo) and I do not even think the original series Elders would have been that big of dicks to choose the exact moment that the Charmed Ones were about to vanquish a demon that plays a role in the frigging apocalypse to inflict a personal gain consequence thereby nearly getting the COs almost killed.  So it seems like this time either personal gain consequences should be universally real or some of the Elders are actually working for team Source and actually want the COs to die/fail...

On a different note....I really miss the spells.  Latin may seem more magically authentic (though actual Wicca covens rarely use it instead of their local language), but it's completely boring to not know what they are saying.  It's been quite awhile since I last watched original Charmed but I could still recite at least half a dozen or more of the catchy spells from it, or at least identify which episode an spell was used in...  As long as the reboot continues to use an untranslated dead language that's not going to be the case this time and its yet another thing that hurts my ability to connect with the show.

Edited October 31, 2018 by Xenith22

[Apprentice79]

10 hours ago, Xenith22 said:

In the old show the theory I subscribed to about personal gain was that it was a combination of the Charmed Ones magic amplifying spells to be more powerful than they were intended (since any spell said by a sister was equal to spell cast by three powerful witches instead of just one), and the paranoid Elders sometimes dicking with them in the name of trying to prevent them from going bad/becoming warlocks.  A simple explanation for why other witches in the show (including Patty and especially Grams) had no problem using their spells/powers for whatever and why the Charmed Ones ancestors would write forbidden "personal gain" spells like the Lost and Found spell, etc in the Book of Shadows that did not work correctly and had major negative consequences and no warning because for them it was just about sticking to the Wiccan Rede.  As far as Prue vs Phoebe the fact is that 1)  Phoebe's abusing her premonitions had significantly more consequences with potentially altering her destiny or the destiny of others  2)  The nature of Phoebe's premonition powers gave them the greater opportunity to step in and reverse it.  I mean Prue using her powers to closes a door, compared to Phoebe learning the lottery numbers is a big difference.  Even some of Prue's more negative behavior like messing with people it was done without warning and no real way for the Elders to easily reverse it.  They could have had Leo scold her more I guess but they (or else Leo) were obviously smart enough to realize that would not go over well...and they did eventually give her the Morality Bites lesson about the consequence of that kind of power abuse.  With the Charmed Ones destiny being about vanquishing the Source they weren't about to do anything as drastic as taking her powers or anything either at this point which could jeopardize that goal and increase the odds or her getting killed.

However that idea does not at all fit with what we saw here as sudden magical cramps had nothing to do with being a natural escalated backfire of a "glamour" spell itself (compared to original Charmed consequence of the glamour becoming real/hard to undo) and I do not even think the original series Elders would have been that big of dicks to choose the exact moment that the Charmed Ones were about to vanquish a demon that plays a role in the frigging apocalypse to inflict a personal gain consequence thereby nearly getting the COs almost killed.  So it seems like this time either personal gain consequences should be universally real or some of the Elders are actually working for team Source and actually want the COs to die/fail...

On a different note....I really miss the spells.  Latin may seem more magically authentic (though actual Wicca covens rarely use it instead of their local language), but it's completely boring to not know what they are saying.  It's been quite awhile since I last watched original Charmed but I could still recite at least half a dozen or more of the catchy spells from it, or at least identify which episode an spell was used in...  As long as the reboot continues to use an untranslated dead language that's not going to be the case this time and its yet another thing that hurts my ability to connect with the show.

I always hated the personal gain rule in relation to the sisters in general. However, I always thought with Phoebe it had more weight because her Premonitions gave her an edge over her own sisters in that she can see the future and effect change that could benefit her.  Plus, Phoebe's duality was always a factor.  It was established from the beginning that the powers came from the sisters themselves and the elders had nothing to do with it.  If the Elders control their powers, then, there is no need for the Charmed ones.

The sisters' powers would grow and change according to the sisters' needs. They would also learn from the Book of Shadows and in turn they would add to the book as well. The book was an extension of them.  Prue developed Astral projection because she wanted to be able in two places at the same time. Her duties as a charmed one and her duties to her job at Buckland's.  It would have made sense for Phoebe to develop either an offensive power or defensive power to match her premonitions that were supposed to grow in power.  As the sisters powers grow so would the type of evil beings that they would encounter.  Their powers would attract warlocks , dark priest intending to take their powers from themselves.

In season 6, the council stripped Phoebe of her powers and that was such bullshit.  Levitation and Empathy were stupid powers for Phoebe. Prue could levitate due to her telekinesis and Phoebe could already feel innocents' pain in her premonitions going back to season 1, in the power of two. Empathy did not need to be a separate power.  The sisters should have developed powers that would be added to the collective of the power of 3. 

[Lady Calypso]

So, some notes about 1x04, mostly about the Elders:

• So, the reboot Elders are dressed more modern than the original Elders. They also seem to run different departments or something. 
• Speaking more about these reboot Elders, it really does seem like they're treating not just Harry the Whitelighter but the Elders as...not quite a joke, but definitely comedic relief. Oh hardy har har, Charity can mute people whenever she wants.
• Elders in the reboot are also confirmed to be "senior witches" and it's heavily implied that Elders are not dead witches being reborn, since they mentioned the Vera matriarch was an Elder. 
• These Elders do seem to have more powers and I will admit their teleporation method is pretty.
• I will say the Harbinger demon here is scarier than almost all of the demons in the original, so there IS a plus to this reboot. 

[Esmeralda]

Yes, you guys are right that Phoebe's premonitions could be more dangerous than Prue's TK.  What I was thinking more is that Prue was so much "Do what I say, not what I do".  I think Phoebe would've been more likely to listen to her if Prue was a bit more careful with not using her TK for personal gain.

I'd still prefer Maggie getting premonitions over whatever the heck it is that they've given her.

Edited November 7, 2018 by Esmeralda

[Esmeralda]

Hearing that the Harbinger demon is scarier than almost all of the demons in Classic Charmed gives me yet another reason not to watch.  I don't like being scared - I hate horror movies because they give me nightmares.  Some of my least-favorite episodes of Classic Charmed are favorites of other fans just because the antagonist in the episode scared the crap out of me!  I hate to admit that I hated 'Chick Flicks' the first time I saw it because it scared me so much!  Now I can laugh at it, but not that first time.

A bunch of us are re-watching each of the Charmed episodes on its 20th anniversary so we watched "Dream Sorcerer' last Sunday.  No matter how often I watch that thing, it still scares me half to death and could never be a favorite.

So if these demons are even scarier - and also, everyone keeps reminding me that the best way to watch the reboot is to think of it as a totally different show.  Well, if it was not given the name Charmed, I'd have absolutely no interest in it, and I'm thinking more and more it's probably best for me to just stay away from this particular board.  So as Maelstrom put it in the "Exorcise Your Demons" thread:

 

Quote

Dear Show,

I know we haven’t known each other all that long, but I just don’t think it’s working out. It’s not you, it’s me - I was expecting you to be entertaining. I’m sorry it has to end like this, but I hope we can still stay friends. But don’t call me, I’ll call you.

Sincerely,

Maelstrom

I agree totally.  Bye, Reboot - it's been fun...no, now that I think of it, it hasn't been.

Those who find this fun and entertaining, I hope you keep watching and keep enjoying.  I will, too - by watching other shows.

[Maelstrom]

I'm with you, Esmeralda, I don't like horror movies one bit. I don't mind spooky and supernatural, but I can't handle gory and scary at all. And unfortunately all SFF shows in recent years have leaned more and more toward gross and gory as far as their villains and general aesthetic go. And the villains in this reboot have definitely followed that trend. It's a shame, IMO. If I wanted to watch creepy disturbing horror, I'd watch American Horror Story, thank you very much.

The premise of Charmed - three sister witches growing as women and witches - has more than enough fodder for multiple versions, IMO. And since the original had so much unfulfilled potential (again, IMO) I maintain that getting a version that does right by its concept would be an exciting thing. Unfortunately, this is not that version. When the male whitelighter is the least unlikeable and least stupid character on the show, there's something wrong. Don't get me wrong, I liked Leo just fine (even though he never stood up for himself to Piper) but he was never the only semi-watchable thing in the original.

It'd be bad enough to just have the leads making stupid choices and being so shortsighted and self-centered about everything (let's be honest, none of that was unheard of in the original either) but that combined with the show jumping into the very thick of its mythos instead of easing into it just makes for a very frustrating hour of tv to get through every week. And I say life's too short for bad tv shows. Not to mention that so much of the reboot just feels like regurgitated bits from other shows - a dash of Sleepy Hollow, a healthy portion of Supernatural, just a pinch of Grimm, etc etc. And on Legends of Tomorrow this season, magic is playing a big part in their storylines, and they're doing it so much better than nuCharmed. I was willing to give the reboot a LOT of leeway, but apparently it needs more than I can give.

[Esmeralda]

1 hour ago, Maelstrom said:

I'm with you, Esmeralda, I don't like horror movies one bit. I don't mind spooky and supernatural, but I can't handle gory and scary at all. And unfortunately all SFF shows in recent years have leaned more and more toward gross and gory as far as their villains and general aesthetic go. And the villains in this reboot have definitely followed that trend. It's a shame, IMO. If I wanted to watch creepy disturbing horror, I'd watch American Horror Story, thank you very much.

The premise of Charmed - three sister witches growing as women and witches - has more than enough fodder for multiple versions, IMO. And since the original had so much unfulfilled potential (again, IMO) I maintain that getting a version that does right by its concept would be an exciting thing. Unfortunately, this is not that version. When the male whitelighter is the least unlikeable and least stupid character on the show, there's something wrong. Don't get me wrong, I liked Leo just fine (even though he never stood up for himself to Piper) but he was never the only semi-watchable thing in the original.

It'd be bad enough to just have the leads making stupid choices and being so shortsighted and self-centered about everything (let's be honest, none of that was unheard of in the original either) but that combined with the show jumping into the very thick of its mythos instead of easing into it just makes for a very frustrating hour of tv to get through every week. And I say life's too short for bad tv shows. Not to mention that so much of the reboot just feels like regurgitated bits from other shows - a dash of Sleepy Hollow, a healthy portion of Supernatural, just a pinch of Grimm, etc etc. And on Legends of Tomorrow this season, magic is playing a big part in their storylines, and they're doing it so much better than nuCharmed. I was willing to give the reboot a LOT of leeway, but apparently it needs more than I can give.

Have to reply to you, Maelstrom.  I absolutely ADORE suspense but hate horror.  So maybe I should break my CW boycott and give Legends of Tomorrow a try.  What do you think?  I really haven't cared for any of the supernatural/superheroes shows on that network so far.  Is LoT different?

Edited November 9, 2018 by Esmeralda

[AngelKitty]

10 hours ago, Esmeralda said:

give Legends of Tomorrow a try.  What do you think? 

My two cents is you should try it. It can be a fun show.

[Maelstrom]

14 hours ago, Esmeralda said:

Have to reply to you, Maelstrom.  I absolutely ADORE suspense but hate horror.  So maybe I should break my CW boycott and give Legends of Tomorrow a try.  What do you think?  I really haven't cared for any of the supernatural/superheroes shows on that network so far.  Is LoT different?

I will happily tell anyone who asks that they should watch LoT! It's a lot of fun, doesn't take itself too seriously at all, and does some really good character work. Honestly, it's currently one of only two shows (along with The Good Place) that I look forward to every week and have complete faith in the writers to give me a good story. I can PM you with more info (so I don't completely derail this thread!) or you can swing on by the LoT forums and have a look around. We're a pretty friendly bunch there!

[Esmeralda]

On ‎11‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 11:03 AM, Maelstrom said:

I will happily tell anyone who asks that they should watch LoT! It's a lot of fun, doesn't take itself too seriously at all, and does some really good character work. Honestly, it's currently one of only two shows (along with The Good Place) that I look forward to every week and have complete faith in the writers to give me a good story. I can PM you with more info (so I don't completely derail this thread!) or you can swing on by the LoT forums and have a look around. We're a pretty friendly bunch there!

I haven't figured out how to PM here, but if you want to and give me a rundown on what's happened on the show, I'll definitely give it a try.  Just remember - I wasn't nuts on Supernatural or Supergirl or the other CW supernatural shows, so if this one is anything like them, I probably won't care for it.

By the way, for some reason I can't like posts anymore.  I don't know why.